All things Bourbon

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wilmwolf
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Wilmington folks, Porter's Neck store had 1792 Full Proof (limit 1) and also Midwinter's Night Dram today when I was in there.
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JocoPack
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Thanks for the info wilm. Really sounds like you know your stuff. If you're ever up around JoCo let me know, would love to pick your brain over a drink.

I'm thinking the Craig may be what I go with. Getting it for my brother in law. Dad is a fan of Crown and Woodford so I've already got him taken care of.
wilmwolf
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Sure thing bud! Sounds like a good choice to me.
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tau06
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JocoPack said:

wilmwolf80 said:

Lol. That's pretty good.
Wilm, what would be your recommendation for a good bottle to give as a gift? I'm talking something that's readily available, as I'm sitting on my BT/Blanton's reserve for now.


Not bourbon technically but the Jack Daniels Single Barrel is excellent IMO and is probably on every shelf.

Great recommendations from Wilmy as well
JocoPack
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tau06 said:

JocoPack said:

wilmwolf80 said:

Lol. That's pretty good.
Wilm, what would be your recommendation for a good bottle to give as a gift? I'm talking something that's readily available, as I'm sitting on my BT/Blanton's reserve for now.


Not bourbon technically but the Jack Daniels Single Barrel is excellent IMO and is probably on every shelf.

Great recommendations from Wilmy as well
That is a pretty good whiskey. I've gotten several bottles of that from Ducks Unlimited events through the years. My BiL is the type to drink something good either neat or on the rocks but I don't feel like he would enjoy it enough to spend a ton.



Changing topics here a bit, I think I've decided to make a homemade batch of egg nog this year. Not sure on what kind of hooch to use yet but didn't know if any of you fine folks have done such in the past?
wilmwolf
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That's one booze related topic I can't help with. I'm allergic to eggs.
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WolfpackCPA
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Picked up a bottle of Basil Hayden 10 year, always been one of my favorite easy drinking bourbons.
wilmwolf
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Spotted the Early Times Bottle In Bond in a store in NC today. First time I've seen it in state. I picked up a bottle in SC and highly recommended it earlier in this thread.
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vanuel
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wilmwolf80 said:

Spotted the Early Times Bottle In Bond in a store in NC today. First time I've seen it in state. I picked up a bottle in SC and highly recommended it earlier in this thread.
I picked one of those out of a store but haven't got around to opening it yet. Perhaps New Years Day.
NatePait94
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WolfpackCPA said:

Picked up a bottle of Basil Hayden 10 year, always been one of my favorite easy drinking bourbons.


Yesterday I had Basil Hayden for the first time and I loved it. It was so smooth!
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wilmwolf
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BH is one I recommend frequently for people just getting in to bourbon. It's a nice looking bottle, not overly expensive, and very drinkable. Some people think it is boring or too low proof, but drink-ability is an important characteristic to me, particularly for people learning their pallet. If you gave someone that had never had bourbon before a glass of something barrel proof, they would probably hate it. There's so much fire there that it is hard to pick out the subtle flavors, which are my favorite parts of bourbon. If you ever drink a glass of bourbon, and then smell the empty glass, that's all the flavors that are my favorites, the vanilla, butterscotch, cinnamon, brown sugar, baking spice, type notes. BH is an excellent bourbon for being able to separate out those flavors in your mouth and enjoy them.
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walstylez
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wilmwolf80 said:

BH is one I recommend frequently for people just getting in to bourbon. It's a nice looking bottle, not overly expensive, and very drinkable. Some people think it is boring or too low proof, but drink-ability is an important characteristic to me, particularly for people learning their pallet. If you gave someone that had never had bourbon before a glass of something barrel proof, they would probably hate it. There's so much fire there that it is hard to pick out the subtle flavors, which are my favorite parts of bourbon. If you ever drink a glass of bourbon, and then smell the empty glass, that's all the flavors that are my favorites, the vanilla, butterscotch, cinnamon, brown sugar, baking spice, type notes. BH is an excellent bourbon for being able to separate out those flavors in your mouth and enjoy them.


Just got another 10 yr BH and the Cask Reserve as well.
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WolfpackCPA
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wilmwolf80 said:

BH is one I recommend frequently for people just getting in to bourbon. It's a nice looking bottle, not overly expensive, and very drinkable. Some people think it is boring or too low proof, but drink-ability is an important characteristic to me, particularly for people learning their pallet. If you gave someone that had never had bourbon before a glass of something barrel proof, they would probably hate it. There's so much fire there that it is hard to pick out the subtle flavors, which are my favorite parts of bourbon. If you ever drink a glass of bourbon, and then smell the empty glass, that's all the flavors that are my favorites, the vanilla, butterscotch, cinnamon, brown sugar, baking spice, type notes. BH is an excellent bourbon for being able to separate out those flavors in your mouth and enjoy them.


I couldn't agree more, I got two EC barrel proof which are ~140 proof. One of those will be a Christmas present this year because no way do I want to drink two bottles of that.

I find barrel proof to be so overpowering they are difficult to enjoy.
JocoPack
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No luck for me today at the JoCo drawing. Good friend of mine was drawn at the Wilson Co one last night and walked away with a bottle of Pappy 15yr. We're steaming oysters together tonight so I'm going to try and coax him to bring it.
wilmwolf
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The 15 is a very good bottle. It's not astronomically better than 10 yr Old Rip, or even Weller Antique honestly, but it is very good. Hopefully he breaks it out for you, bourbon is meant to be drank, not looked at!
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JocoPack
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I'm hoping he does. May be the only chance I ever get.


Wilm what is your opinion on the rarity of some of these bourbons? Is it the fact they didn't see the bourbon craze coming? In 15 years will the shelves be stocked with these rarer bourbons once supply catches up?
wilmwolf
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Most rare bourbon made today is rare because they want it to be. The Van Winkles bottle as much product as they want to bottle. They could easily sell more, and could, and probably should raise their prices to whatever they want. They don't, because they like the prestige they have now, IMO. In some ways, the unicorn bottles drive the market for other things, and the interest in bourbon in general, so there's no incentive to make them more available. We're at a point that even non drinkers know about Pappy. Because of the success of those hard to get bottles, pretty much every company now essentially have created their own unicorns. Since there is a correlation in the minds of the consumer between scarcity and age and perceived quality, people are willing to spend the money. The fact is that because of evaporation, and just the time in general, it's not economical for companies to make large amounts of very old, premium bourbon. Pappy 23 has something like 10 gallons left from 50 by the time it gets that age, and there's only that much because they are very careful about where it is aged in the rickhouse. So for the true unicorn bottles, the only way they'll become more available is if interest in bourbon falls off.

There is a correlation in the relative scarcity of things and the huge boom in popularity, but that mostly has to do with distilleries being purposefully cautious as much as anything. In the "glut period" as it's known, when bourbon was overtaken by vodka following a long period of being the most popular spirit, lots of bourbon distilleries went out of business, and lots of bourbon sat in barrels in rickhouses that couldn't be sold. That's why bottles from that period are so sought after in the dusty market, because you had distillers putting 10-12 year old product in bottles of 8 year bourbon just to get rid of it. I've even read of barrels being dumped and the bourbon being put through the still again to make it into vodka. Given the time involved to make a quality product, some companies were reluctant to lay down a bunch of product worrying that the boom would drop off and they would be left holding the bag again. There's not many industries where you spend money to make something that you won't be able to sell for 4+ years.

My hope is that in the future, with the increase in production, you see age statements return, and more quality product on the shelf. In the old days, you even had things like Ancient Age on the bottom shelf with a 10 year age statement. That was better quality product more easily available to the consumer. There was a time when 8-12 years was standard, and I think that was because that's when bourbon is in its sweet spot to my tastes. Hopefully we get back there.
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JocoPack
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Thanks for the info. I'm fairly new to higher quality bourbons. Jim Beam was the go to in school but I'm trying to branch out, as I enjoy the taste of bourbon and trying to pick out the subtle differences. I've gotten lucky with my BT and Blantons collection, but I'm mostly letting them sit until I feel like my pallet can pick out various flavors better.

JocoPack
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He didn't bring the Pappy. He did bring some Weller 107 though. Probably the best bourbon I've had so far.
wilmwolf
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I've done a blind tasting of Old Weller Antique, Old Rip Van Winkle, and Pappy 15. All are the same juice, all 107 proof. I consider myself to have a pretty refined pallette for bourbon, and I can honestly say that it was very challenging to pick them out. My buddy and I both correctly picked the Pappy, but the ORVW AND OWA were tough to differentiate, and we both got them wrong. OWA is a favorite, and I'm fortunate to have a decent supply. Another that you used to be able to find in the shelf any day of the week. Unfortunate casualty of the hype.
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NatePait94
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Sitting here staring at the shelf at two bottles. Of which I can only get one.

IW Harper 15 year
Or
Calumet Farm Single Rack Black 10 year

Opinions?
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wilmwolf
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If it's between those two, I personally liked the Calumet better, but they are close. I didn't think either of them really leapt off the page, but the Harper was oaky in a way that I typically don't like, but that is typical in that age range. Ironically, there's a chance that they both could be sourced from Heaven Hill, though it's murky for both as to where the juice is actually from. The IW Harper wins on bottle design though, it's a sexy bottle.
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NatePait94
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wilmwolf80 said:

If it's between those two, I personally liked the Calumet better, but they are close. I didn't think either of them really leapt off the page, but the Harper was oaky in a way that I typically don't like, but that is typical in that age range. Ironically, there's a chance that they both could be sourced from Heaven Hill, though it's murky for both as to where the juice is actually from. The IW Harper wins on bottle design though, it's a sexy bottle.


^Very sexy.

I decided to pick up a bottle of Basil Hayden and go home to hopefully read some comments on here between the two and go back and pick one later this week. Guy behind the counter mentioned the Harper can be fruity to some palates. The Calamet is intriguing as a conversation piece in regards to the parallels between it and the derby horses.

I hope to put both on my shelf at some point but it isn't in the cards this season, yet.
We're all Red on the inside. Some of us are just Blue in the face, and they're sick.
NatePait94
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On another note, has anyone ordered anything off wineglobe.com before? They claim to ship to my location in NC and offer a wide variety of liquor. Just skimming I saw Buffalo Trace and Basil Hayden for $25 per 750mL bottle.
We're all Red on the inside. Some of us are just Blue in the face, and they're sick.
wilmwolf
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Never them. I've had some things delivered, mostly barrel picks from a club I'm in, from some retailers. I find shipping charges are generally fairly high, I assume because they are operating in as grey area of the law.
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NatePait94
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wilmwolf80 said:

Never them. I've had some things delivered, mostly barrel picks from a club I'm in, from some retailers. I find shipping charges are generally fairly high, I assume because they are operating in as grey area of the law.


I didnt get far enough to see the shipping cost. I'm gonna see if my workplace will accept and sign for it as they will not be able to deliver to my home due to me living in a gorge. FedEx and UPS made their decision long ago to not venture down my long dirt road.
We're all Red on the inside. Some of us are just Blue in the face, and they're sick.
JocoPack
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wilmwolf80 said:

Never them. I've had some things delivered, mostly barrel picks from a club I'm in, from some retailers. I find shipping charges are generally fairly high, I assume because they are operating in as grey area of the law.


I've been meaning to ask about this. My mom ordered dad a bottle of tequila from a website(I think it was cask cartel maybe?). I didn't even realize that was an option. You've had decent luck with it though?
wilmwolf
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Yes, but it's not really something I like to do because of the legal implications. I've justified it to myself because of the private barrel picks I've been getting, but I wouldn't do it for something I could otherwise get. The places that ship to NC also sell wine, which is legal to ship, so that's the key.
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JocoPack
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Oh yeah I'd only use it for harder to find stuff. I just didn't know how legit it was.
WolfpackCPA
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wilmwolf80 said:

Just a place for general bourbon discussion. My personal collection is pushing around 70 bottles currently, which means I really need to drink more.


How large is the collection 2 years later?
WolfpackCPA
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Got a bakers 13 year single barrel today.

Anybody heard of barrel bourbon? It was highly recommended to me so I grabbed a couple different bottles.
wilmwolf
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The true answer is that I'm not sure, but I'm probably into the 90-100 range. It's really a misnomer for me to call it a collection, because I believe in drinking what I have. I'm not one to leave bottles unopened on the shelf regardless of how rare it is or how much it cost. I like drinking bourbon, not looking at it. This time of year I give lots of bottles as gifts, so in theory the number should go down, but I tend to get a lot of gift bottles too, so it evens out. Also, the nature of hunting stuff means I typically end up buying things out of guilt, whether I find what I'm after or not, which adds to the hoard. I'm also typically keeping an infinity bottle, making large batches of blended cocktails, testing other bourbon blends, barrel finishing things, or any number of other whiskey experiments, so there's all that around too. The sad truth is that I don't drink a lot either, so it takes a long time to kill stuff.

To your other post, Barrell has lots of very good bottles. They are one of, if not the, best non distiller producers at selecting barrels. They do make some of their own stuff now, but by in large they buy and blend barrels from other distillers. They are on the pricey side, and not something I buy often, but I've never had a bad one. Batch 17 was the last one I had, and it was a blend of three ten year old bourbons, one from Tennessee (Dickel), one from Indiana (MGP), and one from Kentucky ( could never nail down for sure where, most likely Barton or heaven Hill I think) and had the best nose of any bottle I've ever smelled. Smelled like liquid gold, and tasted great as well.
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JocoPack
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wilmwolf80 said:

This time of year I give lots of bottles as gifts.


Did you get my address from James or should I DM it?
wilmwolf
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Lol. No. But I will share with you two blends that I am giving to my friends this year. With blends I vat them in a large glass bottle for a few weeks before bottling the gifts. I like to come up with blends that utilize ratios that are don't require a lot of measuring, and both of these can be accomplished with full bottles if you use pints.

The first is a blend of Maker's Mark. Two parts Cask Strength, one part 46. The French oak staves used to make 46 add a subtle oaky-ness to the cask strength, and the lower proof of the small portion cuts the final blend enough to make it a little more approachable. The inspiration here was one of the "poor man's pappy" blends floating around the internet, but instead of using larceny to mix with the cask strength, I went with the 46, because I thought the extra oak would make it taste a little older. The result isn't pappy, but very tasty.

The second is a blend of Wild Turkey. Two parts rare breed, two parts Longbranch, one part 101. Here again, the wood influence from the mesquite charcoal filtering on the Longbranch is what I'm looking to add to the wild turkey profile. The lower proof of that cuts the barrel proof Rare Breed down to a more approachable level. The 101 reinforces the classic turkey profile. This one was born in my head. The result ends up tasting a little bit like the Turkey offshoot WB Saffell, which is one of my favorite bottles from this year.

I've got two more in my head, one is a blend of Heaven Hill products like Elijah Craig and Evan Williams BIB. The other is a blend of wild turkey and eagle rare, mainly just because I want to call it Wild Eagle. The cool thing about these is that you can make them on a small scale to get the ratio right before you commit a whole bottle. The results may not always be better than what you start with, but they might be, and they probably won't be worse. It's a fun diversion for me.
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vanuel
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1792 Single Barrel mixed 2-1 with 1792 Full Proof is a winner.
 
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