let's hope so...RunsWithWolves26 said:
Have they changed tens of thousands of votes yet? Just wondering so I can keep up with what is happening. Thanks in advance
ELECTION 2020
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Last: 11 min ago by ncsupack1
You asked "If Forest used 'DeSantis-like fervor for opening everything up' then why didn't his loss in NC transfer to Florida. De Santis used his fervor and Republican's won there..."caryking said:The original comment was about Ron De Santis fervor that Dan Forest was using. My comment was completely comparable. You, Civ, are bringing in points that aren't relevant.Civilized said:caryking said:Forest, who quite frankly is an idiot, scared those folks off with his Ron de Santis-like fervor for opening everything up.PackBacker07 said:
Not trolling, I don't understand what you are saying here?
"That doesn't make sense. You would think that would have happened in Florida, right?"
If Forest used "De Santis-like fervor for opening everything up" then why didn't his loss in NC transfer to Florida. De Santis used his fervor and Republican's won there...
Florida and North Carolina demographics are not very comparable.
There is no proxy for the bump Republicans got from the evolving conservative Hispanic base in south Florida.
It appears as if the Florida people were not as fearful as NC. I guess. Nonetheless, I don't think this so-called fervor had any impact on the NC Governor's race.
And I answered "There is no proxy for the bump Republicans got from the evolving conservative Hispanic base in south Florida."
DeSantis's perception in Florida is likely different than Forest's here at least partially because the demographics in Florida are different than they are here.
Put simply, what worked for (or at least, didn't hurt) DeSantis in Florida may not have worked for Forest in NC.
fair enoughCivilized said:You asked "If Forest used 'DeSantis-like fervor for opening everything up' then why didn't his loss in NC transfer to Florida. De Santis used his fervor and Republican's won there..."caryking said:The original comment was about Ron De Santis fervor that Dan Forest was using. My comment was completely comparable. You, Civ, are bringing in points that aren't relevant.Civilized said:caryking said:Forest, who quite frankly is an idiot, scared those folks off with his Ron de Santis-like fervor for opening everything up.PackBacker07 said:
Not trolling, I don't understand what you are saying here?
"That doesn't make sense. You would think that would have happened in Florida, right?"
If Forest used "De Santis-like fervor for opening everything up" then why didn't his loss in NC transfer to Florida. De Santis used his fervor and Republican's won there...
Florida and North Carolina demographics are not very comparable.
There is no proxy for the bump Republicans got from the evolving conservative Hispanic base in south Florida.
It appears as if the Florida people were not as fearful as NC. I guess. Nonetheless, I don't think this so-called fervor had any impact on the NC Governor's race.
And I answered "There is no proxy for the bump Republicans got from the evolving conservative Hispanic base in south Florida."
DeSantis's perception in Florida is likely different than Forest's here at least partially because the demographics in Florida are different than they are here.
Put simply, what worked for (or at least, didn't hurt) DeSantis in Florida may not have worked for Forest in NC.
Will Biden start to denounce antifa or admit they exist?
https://www.foxnews.com/us/portland-democratic-campaign-office-biden-smashed-windows-vandalism
https://www.foxnews.com/us/portland-democratic-campaign-office-biden-smashed-windows-vandalism
jadawson said:I don't know every disagreement they have with the man. I know they don't like him as a human being and that's about it. Some people value believing in the person as much as the policy.SupplyChainPack said:jadawson said:I think you are living in a bubble my man. I'm friends with a bunch of conservatives from my day's at state im only aware of one of them that voted for Trump and im sure all of them were were at least pretty close to straight ticket republican other than the president. This was my68 year old father's first election in his life not voting for a republican president even though he voted for Trump in 2016.Dmax95 said:
Left was running on defunding police, ok with peaceful protesting I means rioting, raising taxes/new green deal, and indefinite lockdowns/masks/personal freedom restrictions. If you're republican you voted for Trump 99.9% of the time. I'm not going to say it didn't happen but probability of that being normal is low. If anything I know dems who voted trump nationally but liberal in other places cause they like their paychecks, 401ks and businesses to stay on the upswing. I'll shut up now. Said enough for now. Enjoy the night
You are grossly underestimating the amount of republicans that dont feel represented by Trump and his rhetoric.
Where do your good conservative friends from State diiffer with Trump?
Opposing Abortion on demand until the baby is in the birth canal?
Stopping illegal immigration?
Stopping human trafficking?
Gun control?
Lower taxes?
Significant reduction (finally) in federal regulations?
Mideast peace deals?
Crushing ISIS and crippling Iran's terrorism activities?
Moving our Isrealli embassy to Jerusalem?
Appointing Constitutional conservative judges?
Addressing the long-standing problems at the VA?
Re-building our military?
Re-negotiating NAFTA to get a much better deal for American manufacturing?
Standing up to China to begin dealing with the absurd lopsided relationship we have with them?
Tell me - where do your deeply conservative straight party Republican friends differ with Trump on these issues (and many more)?
Please be specific.
I know that he's pretty far from a fiscal conservative as I went into in an earlier post on this thread that you can find, maybe that plays into it as well.
And your deeply conservative friends were fine with letting Biden take us in exactly the opposite direction on all of those topics (and more) because they don't like Trump's personality?
You serious, Clark?
SupplyChainPack said:jadawson said:I don't know every disagreement they have with the man. I know they don't like him as a human being and that's about it. Some people value believing in the person as much as the policy.SupplyChainPack said:jadawson said:I think you are living in a bubble my man. I'm friends with a bunch of conservatives from my day's at state im only aware of one of them that voted for Trump and im sure all of them were were at least pretty close to straight ticket republican other than the president. This was my68 year old father's first election in his life not voting for a republican president even though he voted for Trump in 2016.Dmax95 said:
Left was running on defunding police, ok with peaceful protesting I means rioting, raising taxes/new green deal, and indefinite lockdowns/masks/personal freedom restrictions. If you're republican you voted for Trump 99.9% of the time. I'm not going to say it didn't happen but probability of that being normal is low. If anything I know dems who voted trump nationally but liberal in other places cause they like their paychecks, 401ks and businesses to stay on the upswing. I'll shut up now. Said enough for now. Enjoy the night
You are grossly underestimating the amount of republicans that dont feel represented by Trump and his rhetoric.
Where do your good conservative friends from State diiffer with Trump?
Opposing Abortion on demand until the baby is in the birth canal?
Stopping illegal immigration?
Stopping human trafficking?
Gun control?
Lower taxes?
Significant reduction (finally) in federal regulations?
Mideast peace deals?
Crushing ISIS and crippling Iran's terrorism activities?
Moving our Isrealli embassy to Jerusalem?
Appointing Constitutional conservative judges?
Addressing the long-standing problems at the VA?
Re-building our military?
Re-negotiating NAFTA to get a much better deal for American manufacturing?
Standing up to China to begin dealing with the absurd lopsided relationship we have with them?
Tell me - where do your deeply conservative straight party Republican friends differ with Trump on these issues (and many more)?
Please be specific.
I know that he's pretty far from a fiscal conservative as I went into in an earlier post on this thread that you can find, maybe that plays into it as well.
And your deeply conservative friends were fine with letting Biden take us in exactly the opposite direction on all of those topics (and more) because they don't like Trump's personality?
You serious, Clark?
Yes? I'm confused as to how you find this so hard to believe when there are other people in this thread who confirmed they did the same thing.
The country didn't end for conservatives under Clinton, Obama etc,. So I don't know why it would end in the next 4 years. Then the GOP can find a candidate that doesn't make people with religious morals feel guilty about supporting them and unite the party again.
SupplyChainPack said:jadawson said:I don't know every disagreement they have with the man. I know they don't like him as a human being and that's about it. Some people value believing in the person as much as the policy.SupplyChainPack said:jadawson said:I think you are living in a bubble my man. I'm friends with a bunch of conservatives from my day's at state im only aware of one of them that voted for Trump and im sure all of them were were at least pretty close to straight ticket republican other than the president. This was my68 year old father's first election in his life not voting for a republican president even though he voted for Trump in 2016.Dmax95 said:
Left was running on defunding police, ok with peaceful protesting I means rioting, raising taxes/new green deal, and indefinite lockdowns/masks/personal freedom restrictions. If you're republican you voted for Trump 99.9% of the time. I'm not going to say it didn't happen but probability of that being normal is low. If anything I know dems who voted trump nationally but liberal in other places cause they like their paychecks, 401ks and businesses to stay on the upswing. I'll shut up now. Said enough for now. Enjoy the night
You are grossly underestimating the amount of republicans that dont feel represented by Trump and his rhetoric.
Where do your good conservative friends from State diiffer with Trump?
Opposing Abortion on demand until the baby is in the birth canal?
Stopping illegal immigration?
Stopping human trafficking?
Gun control?
Lower taxes?
Significant reduction (finally) in federal regulations?
Mideast peace deals?
Crushing ISIS and crippling Iran's terrorism activities?
Moving our Isrealli embassy to Jerusalem?
Appointing Constitutional conservative judges?
Addressing the long-standing problems at the VA?
Re-building our military?
Re-negotiating NAFTA to get a much better deal for American manufacturing?
Standing up to China to begin dealing with the absurd lopsided relationship we have with them?
Tell me - where do your deeply conservative straight party Republican friends differ with Trump on these issues (and many more)?
Please be specific.
I know that he's pretty far from a fiscal conservative as I went into in an earlier post on this thread that you can find, maybe that plays into it as well.
And your deeply conservative friends were fine with letting Biden take us in exactly the opposite direction on all of those topics (and more) because they don't like Trump's personality?
You serious, Clark?
I know you haven't been living under a rock the last four years, SCP.
When people rail against Trump, sometimes it's against policy but almost all the time it includes very strong pushback about how profoundly unpresidential he is. That's not news.
Lots of pubs and right-leaning dems and independents that held their nose in 2016 couldn't or wouldn't do it again for a variety of reasons.
People don't want to be embarrassed by their president's tweets and behaviors. That's an emotional response, not a rational debate about his policies, but both matter when you're essentially marketing yourself and asking people to buy into the package you're selling.
Doctors that are well-liked get sued less than doctors that aren't. Trump embodies that discord politically. He's more disfavorable than you would think based on his policies alone because most Americans hate his personality and behavior. That colors perception, and it lost him this election.
I'm with SupplyChain, not a single registered republican as I stated earlier who agreed with those policies even thought about voting for Biden. As said, I know family and friends who are dems who flipped for Trump. The only people who didn't vote for him never would because of their leanings or they believed all the gas-lighting from the media on issues which didn't matter. The issues that mattered like economic certainty, lower taxes, bringing back manufacturing jobs, 11 peace deals in the middle east, rebuilding/strengthening the military, trying to fix broken obamacare remnants, investing all resources in a vaccine/cure for covid, being against lockdowns, opening up schools so parents could go back to work, defeating the globalist agenda which we always pay for....the list was a mile long. The things people hated about him were personality issues, which to me don't matter. He's that boss every employ might hate, but the shareholders/stakeholders love. Swamp/Govt life longers hated how he wanted to stop the waste/bloated govt, while the American people the stake holders kept more money and invested it however they wanted, reaped the benefits.
One day I hope the masses wake up and realize the media is the issue dividing people. The media is the crab pot polluting peoples minds from just crawling out of the group think pot and seeing things as they are. Politics isn't religion and politicians aren't gods, but you should support the sitting president and want the well being of the country and fellow man first. This divisiveness and hate from the far left which is normalized(far right is bad but condemned always) feeds this guilt that we somehow have to blame ourselves for everyone's misfortune. Bad people do bad things but we're all americans. 90% of us have the same morals and values. 100% of us love NCSU. We're all pretty much the same, but we let politics divide us. When one party does things well celebrate, when they don't condemn it. The hypocrisy from the media and politics makes people not care like the should. Sad days ahead if people don't wake up. Is Trump/Republicans the savior? No not at all, but he condemned rioting/unlimited shutdowns/globalist agendas/govt waste/business crippling regulations and united people to want for reforms in law/order, helping minority communities grow, and make America great.
One day I hope the masses wake up and realize the media is the issue dividing people. The media is the crab pot polluting peoples minds from just crawling out of the group think pot and seeing things as they are. Politics isn't religion and politicians aren't gods, but you should support the sitting president and want the well being of the country and fellow man first. This divisiveness and hate from the far left which is normalized(far right is bad but condemned always) feeds this guilt that we somehow have to blame ourselves for everyone's misfortune. Bad people do bad things but we're all americans. 90% of us have the same morals and values. 100% of us love NCSU. We're all pretty much the same, but we let politics divide us. When one party does things well celebrate, when they don't condemn it. The hypocrisy from the media and politics makes people not care like the should. Sad days ahead if people don't wake up. Is Trump/Republicans the savior? No not at all, but he condemned rioting/unlimited shutdowns/globalist agendas/govt waste/business crippling regulations and united people to want for reforms in law/order, helping minority communities grow, and make America great.
When you talk about all the behaviors/unpresidential things one couldn't hold their nose to anymore, I'm not sure if that matters? Which things were so bad no one could over look? His jokes about bleach, his lack of presidential speak because he wasn't obama and loved no matter what? The idea that he's a racist but every single comment that is supposedly evidence was taken out of context? His Desire to blame China for Covid? His handling of a virus which no one really knew anything on and was clearly misled/any president would have made mistakes? What was he supposed to do. I guess I live on a different planet. Trump seemed like a normal guy, was he perfect? No, no one is. When people talk about this they love to just regurgitate the media's talking points which are always 100% negative regardless if it was a joke, taken out of context, or just a mistake. I would love to hear which things you were referring to that would make people flip to Biden. Thanks!
I think the never Trump republicans were out there but I think there numbers were so few that it didn't matter. It appears to me that these results suggest that Trump is more popular with republicans than ever and many other demographics as well. It seems that the house is flipping more GOP way more than anyone ever thought. The senate is up in the air but tilting GOP. Trump is more popular than ever and a lot of people want him to keep fighting. Trump and his base is not going away either even if he does have to leave the White House. This is the new GOP which puts up a fight instead of kowtowing to the overlords in the democrat party and Washington establishment. You'll never return to the days of the GOP before Trump. The genie can't be put back in that bottle. Romney and those types have no place in it now.Dmax95 said:
I'm with SupplyChain, not a single registered republican as I stated earlier who agreed with those policies even thought about voting for Biden. As said, I know family and friends who are dems who flipped for Trump. The only people who didn't vote for him never would because of their leanings or they believed all the gas-lighting from the media on issues which didn't matter. The issues that mattered like economic certainty, lower taxes, bringing back manufacturing jobs, 11 peace deals in the middle east, rebuilding/strengthening the military, trying to fix broken obamacare remnants, investing all resources in a vaccine/cure for covid, being against lockdowns, opening up schools so parents could go back to work, defeating the globalist agenda which we always pay for....the list was a mile long. The things people hated about him were personality issues, which to me don't matter. He's that boss every employ might hate, but the shareholders/stakeholders love. Swamp/Govt life longers hated how he wanted to stop the waste/bloated govt, while the American people the stake holders kept more money and invested it however they wanted, reaped the benefits.
One day I hope the masses wake up and realize the media is the issue dividing people. The media is the crab pot polluting peoples minds from just crawling out of the group think pot and seeing things as they are. Politics isn't religion and politicians aren't gods, but you should support the sitting president and want the well being of the country and fellow man first. This divisiveness and hate from the far left which is normalized(far right is bad but condemned always) feeds this guilt that we somehow have to blame ourselves for everyone's misfortune. Bad people do bad things but we're all americans. 90% of us have the same morals and values. 100% of us love NCSU. We're all pretty much the same, but we let politics divide us. When one party does things well celebrate, when they don't condemn it. The hypocrisy from the media and politics makes people not care like the should. Sad days ahead if people don't wake up. Is Trump/Republicans the savior? No not at all, but he condemned rioting/unlimited shutdowns/globalist agendas/govt waste/business crippling regulations and united people to want for reforms in law/order, helping minority communities grow, and make America great.
No. The libs will just claim that it was a bunch of white supremacists...packofwolves said:
Will Biden start to denounce antifa or admit they exist?
https://www.foxnews.com/us/portland-democratic-campaign-office-biden-smashed-windows-vandalism
My neighbor who works for NASA and is a smart guy still thinks Antifa is fake. I don't bring it up ever cause he lost his **** the last time we talked about it but I just think to myself sometimes, how many people believe this crap. They literally riot with their flags and patches, have a dedicated online presence, have gofundme pages to help bail them out, and literally rioted in portland for 100 days or more. That's true denial. Thought yall might think this is silly like I do.
Historically incumbents get slaughtered in the house or senate when seeking re-election. It doesn't add up that he wouldn't be winning. If you're a never trumper you are either Mitt Romney or a registered democrat, no? :-)
Dmax95 said:
Historically incumbents get slaughtered in the house or senate when seeking re-election. It doesn't add up that he wouldn't be winning. If you're a never trumper you are either Mitt Romney or a registered democrat, no? :-)
Or any of the other prominent republican figures from my link above.
Yeah. And we can talk more in the other thread about this but most major cities in the country showed Biden losing ground compared to Hillary in the big cities. Or at the least a parallel % of victory in urban areas. There was no additional surge in any major city in America. EXCEPT... Philly, Milwaukee, Detroit, Atlanta, Phoenix. Possibly others but those stick out. So curious.Dmax95 said:
Historically incumbents get slaughtered in the house or senate when seeking re-election. It doesn't add up that he wouldn't be winning. If you're a never trumper you are either Mitt Romney or a registered democrat, no? :-)
CC would have won that race without those stupid emails, et al.jadawson said:I mean Cal Cunningham did have a pretty big scandal come up...TheStorm said:
Biden / Cooper / Tillis... now that is really rich!
Please find me that Democrat.
jadawson said:SupplyChainPack said:jadawson said:I don't know every disagreement they have with the man. I know they don't like him as a human being and that's about it. Some people value believing in the person as much as the policy.SupplyChainPack said:jadawson said:I think you are living in a bubble my man. I'm friends with a bunch of conservatives from my day's at state im only aware of one of them that voted for Trump and im sure all of them were were at least pretty close to straight ticket republican other than the president. This was my68 year old father's first election in his life not voting for a republican president even though he voted for Trump in 2016.Dmax95 said:
Left was running on defunding police, ok with peaceful protesting I means rioting, raising taxes/new green deal, and indefinite lockdowns/masks/personal freedom restrictions. If you're republican you voted for Trump 99.9% of the time. I'm not going to say it didn't happen but probability of that being normal is low. If anything I know dems who voted trump nationally but liberal in other places cause they like their paychecks, 401ks and businesses to stay on the upswing. I'll shut up now. Said enough for now. Enjoy the night
You are grossly underestimating the amount of republicans that dont feel represented by Trump and his rhetoric.
Where do your good conservative friends from State diiffer with Trump?
Opposing Abortion on demand until the baby is in the birth canal?
Stopping illegal immigration?
Stopping human trafficking?
Gun control?
Lower taxes?
Significant reduction (finally) in federal regulations?
Mideast peace deals?
Crushing ISIS and crippling Iran's terrorism activities?
Moving our Isrealli embassy to Jerusalem?
Appointing Constitutional conservative judges?
Addressing the long-standing problems at the VA?
Re-building our military?
Re-negotiating NAFTA to get a much better deal for American manufacturing?
Standing up to China to begin dealing with the absurd lopsided relationship we have with them?
Tell me - where do your deeply conservative straight party Republican friends differ with Trump on these issues (and many more)?
Please be specific.
I know that he's pretty far from a fiscal conservative as I went into in an earlier post on this thread that you can find, maybe that plays into it as well.
And your deeply conservative friends were fine with letting Biden take us in exactly the opposite direction on all of those topics (and more) because they don't like Trump's personality?
You serious, Clark?
Yes? I'm confused as to how you find this so hard to believe when there are other people in this thread who confirmed they did the same thing.
The country didn't end for conservatives under Clinton, Obama etc,. So I don't know why it would end in the next 4 years. Then the GOP can find a candidate that doesn't make people with religious morals feel guilty about supporting them and unite the party again.
I'm hinting that your friends may not be actual conservatives, since that is all core stuff - that they are apparently willing to abandon because they don't like Trump's personality?
No chance in hell.
Its worth mentioning that MSNBC is reporting that Joe Biden is having phone calls with foreign leaders about the agenda that he wants to pursue once he is in office.
Since we should play by the rules of the last election it seems to me that since Joe Biden isn't anything outside of the projected winner of an election that is still being contested he should be arrested for the Logan Act violations.....that's how it should work right?
That's what I learned from the last presidential election....
Since we should play by the rules of the last election it seems to me that since Joe Biden isn't anything outside of the projected winner of an election that is still being contested he should be arrested for the Logan Act violations.....that's how it should work right?
That's what I learned from the last presidential election....
SupplyChainPack said:jadawson said:SupplyChainPack said:jadawson said:I don't know every disagreement they have with the man. I know they don't like him as a human being and that's about it. Some people value believing in the person as much as the policy.SupplyChainPack said:jadawson said:I think you are living in a bubble my man. I'm friends with a bunch of conservatives from my day's at state im only aware of one of them that voted for Trump and im sure all of them were were at least pretty close to straight ticket republican other than the president. This was my68 year old father's first election in his life not voting for a republican president even though he voted for Trump in 2016.Dmax95 said:
Left was running on defunding police, ok with peaceful protesting I means rioting, raising taxes/new green deal, and indefinite lockdowns/masks/personal freedom restrictions. If you're republican you voted for Trump 99.9% of the time. I'm not going to say it didn't happen but probability of that being normal is low. If anything I know dems who voted trump nationally but liberal in other places cause they like their paychecks, 401ks and businesses to stay on the upswing. I'll shut up now. Said enough for now. Enjoy the night
You are grossly underestimating the amount of republicans that dont feel represented by Trump and his rhetoric.
Where do your good conservative friends from State diiffer with Trump?
Opposing Abortion on demand until the baby is in the birth canal?
Stopping illegal immigration?
Stopping human trafficking?
Gun control?
Lower taxes?
Significant reduction (finally) in federal regulations?
Mideast peace deals?
Crushing ISIS and crippling Iran's terrorism activities?
Moving our Isrealli embassy to Jerusalem?
Appointing Constitutional conservative judges?
Addressing the long-standing problems at the VA?
Re-building our military?
Re-negotiating NAFTA to get a much better deal for American manufacturing?
Standing up to China to begin dealing with the absurd lopsided relationship we have with them?
Tell me - where do your deeply conservative straight party Republican friends differ with Trump on these issues (and many more)?
Please be specific.
I know that he's pretty far from a fiscal conservative as I went into in an earlier post on this thread that you can find, maybe that plays into it as well.
And your deeply conservative friends were fine with letting Biden take us in exactly the opposite direction on all of those topics (and more) because they don't like Trump's personality?
You serious, Clark?
Yes? I'm confused as to how you find this so hard to believe when there are other people in this thread who confirmed they did the same thing.
The country didn't end for conservatives under Clinton, Obama etc,. So I don't know why it would end in the next 4 years. Then the GOP can find a candidate that doesn't make people with religious morals feel guilty about supporting them and unite the party again.
I'm hinting that your friends may not be actual conservatives, since that is all core stuff - that they are apparently willing to abandon because they don't like Trump's personality?
No chance in hell.
I'm glad you know them better than I do.
I guess none of those prominent republicans I listed earlier is actually conservative either. Those former presidents and party nominees sure did fool a lot of people back then.
I know Guiliani and Flynn were speculated to have violated the Logan Act, but who said Trump did? I honestly do not remember.
Y'all means ALL.
I've heard for the last 4 years that the president isn't above the law.PackBacker07 said:
I know Guiliani and Flynn were speculated to have violated the Logan Act, but who said Trump did? I honestly do not remember.
DOJ should go after Biden the same way they did Flynn
cowboypack02 said:
Its worth mentioning that MSNBC is reporting that Joe Biden is having phone calls with foreign leaders about the agenda that he wants to pursue once he is in office.
Since we should play by the rules of the last election it seems to me that since Joe Biden isn't anything outside of the projected winner of an election that is still being contested he should be arrested for the Logan Act violations.....that's how it should work right?
That's what I learned from the last presidential election....
Is he already negotiating with nations with whom we're in conflict and spurring them to take specific action?
Giuliani wasn't having idle conversations with allies about what he planned to do in his future role as president. He was actively negotiating with an adversarial foreign government **in a country in which he had/has business interests**.
That's a obvious, and key distinction.
The Logan Act doesn't differentiate between what you are talking about with a foreign government.Civilized said:cowboypack02 said:
Its worth mentioning that MSNBC is reporting that Joe Biden is having phone calls with foreign leaders about the agenda that he wants to pursue once he is in office.
Since we should play by the rules of the last election it seems to me that since Joe Biden isn't anything outside of the projected winner of an election that is still being contested he should be arrested for the Logan Act violations.....that's how it should work right?
That's what I learned from the last presidential election....
Is he already negotiating with nations with whom we're in conflict and spurring them to take specific action?
Giuliani wasn't having idle conversations with allies about what he planned to do in his future role as president. He was actively negotiating with an adversarial foreign government **in a country in which he had/has business interests**.
That's a obvious, and key distinction.
Its kinda like speeding. It doesn't matter why you are doing 80 in a 55....you were still doing 80 in a 55. It doesn't matter who he was talking to or why....the law is still the law
The nation will be in a heap of trouble if the Georgia R Senators lose in January runoffs. Divided government is the best remedy for the current situation for both parties.
Except it does say that... It specifically has to do with with negotiations with nations that are at dispute with the US government so that the governments position is not undermined. like Flynn was alleged to have discussed the recent sanctions place by Obama on Russia with Russian government officials (ambassador to US).cowboypack02 said:The Logan Act doesn't differentiate between what you are talking about with a foreign government.Civilized said:cowboypack02 said:
Its worth mentioning that MSNBC is reporting that Joe Biden is having phone calls with foreign leaders about the agenda that he wants to pursue once he is in office.
Since we should play by the rules of the last election it seems to me that since Joe Biden isn't anything outside of the projected winner of an election that is still being contested he should be arrested for the Logan Act violations.....that's how it should work right?
That's what I learned from the last presidential election....
Is he already negotiating with nations with whom we're in conflict and spurring them to take specific action?
Giuliani wasn't having idle conversations with allies about what he planned to do in his future role as president. He was actively negotiating with an adversarial foreign government **in a country in which he had/has business interests**.
That's a obvious, and key distinction.
Its kinda like speeding. It doesn't matter why you are doing 80 in a 55....you were still doing 80 in a 55. It doesn't matter who he was talking to or why....the law is still the law
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan_Act#Text
specifically:
in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States
I don't believe the Logan Act has anything to do with official parties of the USA, which would include sitting Presidents? Nor does it have to do with being "above the law?" Could be wrong.
Y'all means ALL.
Ripper said:
The nation will be in a heap of trouble if the Georgia R Senators lose in January runoffs. Divided government is the best remedy for the current situation for both parties.
Yep. Hello Communism. What once was evil and we fought against will now be what our children and grandchildren will be raised in. Way to go Democrats.
Describe what you think Communism is.
Y'all means ALL.
jadawson said:SupplyChainPack said:jadawson said:SupplyChainPack said:jadawson said:I don't know every disagreement they have with the man. I know they don't like him as a human being and that's about it. Some people value believing in the person as much as the policy.SupplyChainPack said:jadawson said:I think you are living in a bubble my man. I'm friends with a bunch of conservatives from my day's at state im only aware of one of them that voted for Trump and im sure all of them were were at least pretty close to straight ticket republican other than the president. This was my68 year old father's first election in his life not voting for a republican president even though he voted for Trump in 2016.Dmax95 said:
Left was running on defunding police, ok with peaceful protesting I means rioting, raising taxes/new green deal, and indefinite lockdowns/masks/personal freedom restrictions. If you're republican you voted for Trump 99.9% of the time. I'm not going to say it didn't happen but probability of that being normal is low. If anything I know dems who voted trump nationally but liberal in other places cause they like their paychecks, 401ks and businesses to stay on the upswing. I'll shut up now. Said enough for now. Enjoy the night
You are grossly underestimating the amount of republicans that dont feel represented by Trump and his rhetoric.
Where do your good conservative friends from State diiffer with Trump?
Opposing Abortion on demand until the baby is in the birth canal?
Stopping illegal immigration?
Stopping human trafficking?
Gun control?
Lower taxes?
Significant reduction (finally) in federal regulations?
Mideast peace deals?
Crushing ISIS and crippling Iran's terrorism activities?
Moving our Isrealli embassy to Jerusalem?
Appointing Constitutional conservative judges?
Addressing the long-standing problems at the VA?
Re-building our military?
Re-negotiating NAFTA to get a much better deal for American manufacturing?
Standing up to China to begin dealing with the absurd lopsided relationship we have with them?
Tell me - where do your deeply conservative straight party Republican friends differ with Trump on these issues (and many more)?
Please be specific.
I know that he's pretty far from a fiscal conservative as I went into in an earlier post on this thread that you can find, maybe that plays into it as well.
And your deeply conservative friends were fine with letting Biden take us in exactly the opposite direction on all of those topics (and more) because they don't like Trump's personality?
You serious, Clark?
Yes? I'm confused as to how you find this so hard to believe when there are other people in this thread who confirmed they did the same thing.
The country didn't end for conservatives under Clinton, Obama etc,. So I don't know why it would end in the next 4 years. Then the GOP can find a candidate that doesn't make people with religious morals feel guilty about supporting them and unite the party again.
I'm hinting that your friends may not be actual conservatives, since that is all core stuff - that they are apparently willing to abandon because they don't like Trump's personality?
No chance in hell.
I'm glad you know them better than I do.
I guess none of those prominent republicans I listed earlier is actually conservative either. Those former presidents and party nominees sure did fool a lot of people back then.
I know the definition of what conservatism is - and if your friends were willing to throw away that list (and much more) for the 180 degree difference of Grandpa Joe and his handlers - they aren't conservative.
its a catch all buzzword that the right wing uses for anything they don't like.PackBacker07 said:
Describe what you think Communism is.
Thanks, i'll let them know they aren't conservative. Im sure it will be news to them but i think they'll adapt to this new reality eventually.SupplyChainPack said:jadawson said:SupplyChainPack said:jadawson said:SupplyChainPack said:jadawson said:I don't know every disagreement they have with the man. I know they don't like him as a human being and that's about it. Some people value believing in the person as much as the policy.SupplyChainPack said:jadawson said:I think you are living in a bubble my man. I'm friends with a bunch of conservatives from my day's at state im only aware of one of them that voted for Trump and im sure all of them were were at least pretty close to straight ticket republican other than the president. This was my68 year old father's first election in his life not voting for a republican president even though he voted for Trump in 2016.Dmax95 said:
Left was running on defunding police, ok with peaceful protesting I means rioting, raising taxes/new green deal, and indefinite lockdowns/masks/personal freedom restrictions. If you're republican you voted for Trump 99.9% of the time. I'm not going to say it didn't happen but probability of that being normal is low. If anything I know dems who voted trump nationally but liberal in other places cause they like their paychecks, 401ks and businesses to stay on the upswing. I'll shut up now. Said enough for now. Enjoy the night
You are grossly underestimating the amount of republicans that dont feel represented by Trump and his rhetoric.
Where do your good conservative friends from State diiffer with Trump?
Opposing Abortion on demand until the baby is in the birth canal?
Stopping illegal immigration?
Stopping human trafficking?
Gun control?
Lower taxes?
Significant reduction (finally) in federal regulations?
Mideast peace deals?
Crushing ISIS and crippling Iran's terrorism activities?
Moving our Isrealli embassy to Jerusalem?
Appointing Constitutional conservative judges?
Addressing the long-standing problems at the VA?
Re-building our military?
Re-negotiating NAFTA to get a much better deal for American manufacturing?
Standing up to China to begin dealing with the absurd lopsided relationship we have with them?
Tell me - where do your deeply conservative straight party Republican friends differ with Trump on these issues (and many more)?
Please be specific.
I know that he's pretty far from a fiscal conservative as I went into in an earlier post on this thread that you can find, maybe that plays into it as well.
And your deeply conservative friends were fine with letting Biden take us in exactly the opposite direction on all of those topics (and more) because they don't like Trump's personality?
You serious, Clark?
Yes? I'm confused as to how you find this so hard to believe when there are other people in this thread who confirmed they did the same thing.
The country didn't end for conservatives under Clinton, Obama etc,. So I don't know why it would end in the next 4 years. Then the GOP can find a candidate that doesn't make people with religious morals feel guilty about supporting them and unite the party again.
I'm hinting that your friends may not be actual conservatives, since that is all core stuff - that they are apparently willing to abandon because they don't like Trump's personality?
No chance in hell.
I'm glad you know them better than I do.
I guess none of those prominent republicans I listed earlier is actually conservative either. Those former presidents and party nominees sure did fool a lot of people back then.
I know the definition of what conservatism is - and if your friends were willing to throw away that list (and much more) for the 180 degree difference of Grandpa Joe and his handlers - they aren't conservative.
Not a prob.
Senator Manchin said he would vote with Republicans on such things as the filibuster and packing the courts.Ripper said:
The nation will be in a heap of trouble if the Georgia R Senators lose in January runoffs. Divided government is the best remedy for the current situation for both parties.
Maybe, but he can't be trusted. The pressure on him would be enormous.Cthepack said:Senator Manchin said he would vote with Republicans on such things as the filibuster and packing the courts.Ripper said:
The nation will be in a heap of trouble if the Georgia R Senators lose in January runoffs. Divided government is the best remedy for the current situation for both parties.
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