Pakbackr said:

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3rdGenPacker said:

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This is one of those things where there's a good chance you won't see significant improved attendance until you improve the facility. Quite frankly, for those people that aren't there solely for the baseball, it's just not a great experience. The seats are uncomfortable, there's no cover at all for anyone from sun, rain or wind, and for some reason I'll never understand there's a guard at the top of each section policing it as if the seats in that section were the most valuable commodity in town. I've seen them run young kids out of front row seats because they didn't have the tickets for those seats. Even though no one else was sitting there.

If we had a stadium like Boshamer or the one at Coastal, our family would have gone more over the years. And we had season tickets for nearly 10 years and didn't go every time we had the chance.

Build it, and they will come. Gotta do something that's pleasant and something that has some character. See Coastal and Liberty.

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I agree 100%! Your ballpark needs to be a destination that draws fans. The fan experience is critical. They need to also boast the quality of the concessions and start selling beer!

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I agree with the destination concept. I go to the Bulls, Mudcats, etc. often without knowing a single player on either team. It is fun to actually have a rooting interest in the team and be somewhat invested in the players, but the great thing about baseball is the night out with the family, some decent food selections, and just being outside. I have had season tickets about 5 years but we only get to about 10-12 games a year. 3:00 starts during the week and 40 degree weather are going to limit attendance. I bet these remaining ACC series will be pretty full. Although I don't like the 12:00 start on Sunday, makes it hard to get there from church.

3rdGenPacker said:

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This is one of those things where there's a good chance you won't see significant improved attendance until you improve the facility. Quite frankly, for those people that aren't there solely for the baseball, it's just not a great experience. The seats are uncomfortable, there's no cover at all for anyone from sun, rain or wind, and for some reason I'll never understand there's a guard at the top of each section policing it as if the seats in that section were the most valuable commodity in town. I've seen them run young kids out of front row seats because they didn't have the tickets for those seats. Even though no one else was sitting there.

If we had a stadium like Boshamer or the one at Coastal, our family would have gone more over the years. And we had season tickets for nearly 10 years and didn't go every time we had the chance.

Build it, and they will come. Gotta do something that's pleasant and something that has some character. See Coastal and Liberty.

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Coastal is a great example of what can happen when you build brand new, great facilities. They got support, they got recruits, they won it all. A team from Myrtle Beach that had a dinky stadium got a brand spanking new park, and found themselves the darling of the college baseball world in Omaha. The Doak is a joke.

Coastal Carolina upgraded their stadium in the same location as the old stadium. They did a really good job, I have heard that they spent 18 million.

3rdGenPacker said:

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If this season keeps going the way it is, it will be the best job Avent has done. And he's got some good recruiting classes lined up. It might be time to accept him as the coach and quit talk about hiring someone else, and start investing in the facilities.

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This x100

I would contribute to a new stadium on the Centennial Campus. That would be a great location!!

I think a new stadium on Centennial is where this whole idea will logically go. Would allow State to keep playing at Doak until a new stadium was completed and would give them more room to do what they want to with it.

However, if / when this occurs, I'd still love for it to be a big renovation of Doak. Centennial Campus is great and everything, but I love being able to go to PR or EV pre-game, head to the game, walk through campus, and then head back to Hillsborough afterwards.

And I agree that a newer, nicer stadium will allow it to be more of a destination type of thing with greater amenities for the casual fans. However, this isn't just a "this year" type of deal with lesser attendance due to bad weather / opponents. Doak has historically (at least in the last 5-10 years since I've been going regularly) hit its capacity for the Carolina series, post-season play, and then potentially for a couple of games across series when Duke / FSU / Louisville / Clemson come to town.

A new stadium either on CC or by the PNC would be great, but who the heck is going to pay for it? I think you guys miss the point, at State we don't have a profit we have a deficit and owe a lot of $$ for current and future projects. WPC hasn't been raising $ like they did when we put together the LTRs. We can all dream of a new stadium but unless things change dramatically we will never see it.

One option could be: We own most of the land around PNC and CF, and we own the land at CC. I think we need to look at a Commercial Partnership with a developer and allow them to sell/lease to restaurant, bars, and then develop housing around the stadium which could be sold/leased. Just a thought...

State could start construction on upgrades or a new park next week if they wanted to. The old "we ain't got no money" shtick is really over played.

Need to start selling booze at all events ASAP. It's a no brainer.

Not trying to argue but the Athletic Department says otherwise. We are not in any position to start building tomorrow. I've got the plans from 2 years ago for the upgrades too. There's no $$.

gopack1979 said:

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Not trying to argue but the Athletic Department says otherwise. We are not in any position to start building tomorrow. I've got the plans from 2 years ago for the upgrades too. There's no $$.

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What else would you expect them to say? I love Yow to death, but let's be honest... We know why there hasn't been upgrades or improvements, and it's been touched on all throughout this thread. When we needed to hire a football coach, we promised him a new indoor facility.. We hired Doeren in December 2012 and in TWO years, we had planned, built, and moved into a $14M indoor practice facility.

Let's call a duck a duck here.

tau06 said:

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Need to start selling booze at all events ASAP. It's a no brainer.

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You want to increase attendance and give the casual fans an extra incentive to come to Doak - this is the way to do it. Baseball is the sport that IMO would benefit the most from being able to sell alcohol at the games.

And I agree that at this point, we don't have the $$$ to do so. Reynolds & Close-King took up a lot of funding. However, if that Case Commons basketball dorm has been indefinitely shelved, and that was being built entirely with WPC private funds, then I hope like hell they're working with those same donors to allow those contributions to shift over to Doak.

The indoor football facility was privately funded.

jwpack said:

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Coastal Carolina upgraded their stadium in the same location as the old stadium. They did a really good job, I have heard that they spent 18 million.

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It would be very interesting to know how much revenue they are generating and what the ROI on that investment is.

BigLefty24 said:

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State could start construction on upgrades or a new park next week if they wanted to. The old "we ain't got no money" shtick is really over played.

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I don't believe there is an unlimited pool of money and the question becomes where is the money we do have best spent. The ROI on a baseball investment isn't good.

Pocketflask said:

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BigLefty24 said:

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State could start construction on upgrades or a new park next week if they wanted to. The old "we ain't got no money" shtick is really over played.

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I don't believe there is an unlimited pool of money and the question becomes where is the money we do have best spent. The ROI on a baseball investment isn't good.

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Gotta think $10 - 20 million on upgradiing Doak would yield a better ROI then $30 million on Reynolds. People actually come to baseball games.

Pocketflask said:

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BigLefty24 said:

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State could start construction on upgrades or a new park next week if they wanted to. The old "we ain't got no money" shtick is really over played.

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I don't believe there is an unlimited pool of money and the question becomes where is the money we do have best spent. The ROI on a baseball investment isn't good.

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How much revenue does a basketball dorm produce? An indoor practice facility? We spent $14M on an indoor facility, and we're ready to drop another $15M on basketball dorms. Y'all all are tip toeing around the elephant in the room.

Wait, I thought it was a duck. It's pretty tough to confuse a duck for an elephant; just sayin'.

PackFansXL said:

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Wait, I thought it was a duck. It's pretty tough to confuse a duck for an elephant; just sayin'.

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It's a REALLY REALLY big duck. Elephant sized sucker! LOL

BigLefty24 said:

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Pocketflask said:

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BigLefty24 said:

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State could start construction on upgrades or a new park next week if they wanted to. The old "we ain't got no money" shtick is really over played.

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I don't believe there is an unlimited pool of money and the question becomes where is the money we do have best spent. The ROI on a baseball investment isn't good.

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How much revenue does a basketball dorm produce? An indoor practice facility? We spent $14M on an indoor facility, and we're ready to drop another $15M on basketball dorms. Y'all all are tip toeing around the elephant in the room.

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Those things you listed help the sports that make money for the university.

metcalfmafia said:

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BigLefty24 said:

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Pocketflask said:

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BigLefty24 said:

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State could start construction on upgrades or a new park next week if they wanted to. The old "we ain't got no money" shtick is really over played.

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I don't believe there is an unlimited pool of money and the question becomes where is the money we do have best spent. The ROI on a baseball investment isn't good.

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How much revenue does a basketball dorm produce? An indoor practice facility? We spent $14M on an indoor facility, and we're ready to drop another $15M on basketball dorms. Y'all all are tip toeing around the elephant in the room.

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Those things you listed help the sports that make money for the university.

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No, those things are carrots that you hang to hire Dave Doeren and Mark Gottfried. And if Avent had fallen on his face this year and got himself fired, we would have had major renovations completed on the Doak within 3-4 years.

We were going to Belk Bowls and selling out Carter Finley before we ever built an indoor facility. We were finishing in the top three of the ACC and going to the Sweet Sixteen with Herb Sendek. Didn't need a dorm then. We were reeling in top 5-10 classes under Sidney Lowe and he won 25 ACC games in 5 years. Didn't need a dorm, or even a halfway successful program for that matter. A non P5 team has won 3 of the last 5 men's basketball championship, and finished runner up in a 4th one. People like to convince themselves that continually throwing money at football and basketball is necessary, and in reality, it's a load of bull.

BigLefty24 said:

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metcalfmafia said:

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BigLefty24 said:

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Pocketflask said:

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BigLefty24 said:

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State could start construction on upgrades or a new park next week if they wanted to. The old "we ain't got no money" shtick is really over played.

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I don't believe there is an unlimited pool of money and the question becomes where is the money we do have best spent. The ROI on a baseball investment isn't good.

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How much revenue does a basketball dorm produce? An indoor practice facility? We spent $14M on an indoor facility, and we're ready to drop another $15M on basketball dorms. Y'all all are tip toeing around the elephant in the room.

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Those things you listed help the sports that make money for the university.

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No, those things are carrots that you hang to hire Dave Doeren and Mark Gottfried. And if Avent had fallen on his face this year and got himself fired, we would have had major renovations completed on the Doak within 3-4 years.

We were going to Belk Bowls and selling out Carter Finley before we ever built an indoor facility. We were finishing in the top three of the ACC and going to the Sweet Sixteen with Herb Sendek. Didn't need a dorm then. We were reeling in top 5-10 classes under Sidney Lowe and he won 25 ACC games in 5 years. Didn't need a dorm, or even a halfway successful program for that matter. A non P5 team has won 3 of the last 5 men's basketball championship, and finished runner up in a 4th one. People like to convince themselves that continually throwing money at football and basketball is necessary, and in reality, it's a load of bull.

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They maybe carrots to dangle, but they still add to the programs and when you are a continuous improvement organization, then you better be taking care of the programs that make that money. So what do you suggest? We do not try and add any new facilities/improvements for football or basketball because past coaches have had similar results?

No, simply playing devils advocate to the "we ain't got no money" crowd and the "ROI" crowd.

We could make improvements to the Dail at any time. And I would contend that renovations to Dail would be much better money spent than a $15M dorm spent on 24 basketball players living arrangements.

BigLefty24 said:

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No, simply playing devils advocate to the "we ain't got no money" crowd and the "ROI" crowd.

We could make improvements to the Dail at any time. And I would contend that renovations to Dail would be much better money spent than a $15M dorm spent on 24 basketball players living arrangements.

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The basketball dorm was going to be privately funded. I would contend that most fans would rather see their money used towards the basketball program as opposed to whatever we could do to the baseball stadium.

BigLefty24 said:

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No, simply playing devils advocate to the "we ain't got no money" crowd and the "ROI" crowd.

We could make improvements to the Dail at any time. And I would contend that renovations to Dail would be much better money spent than a $15M dorm spent on 24 basketball players living arrangements.

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I wouldn't argue with this perspective either. I would much prefer to have that money spent on outstanding baseball facilities. I've been told by people who know people, that the issue here is actual money on hand. If a big donor made funds available, my people say we can get what we want. Unfortunately, my startup is a long way from paying off; so, I am not likely to be that big donor we require.

On the other hand, spending a fortune on facilities does NOT guarantee success on the baseball diamond. Not spending does not prevent success either. This year's team is a good example of the latter view.

BigLefty24 said:

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No, simply playing devils advocate to the "we ain't got no money" crowd and the "ROI" crowd.

We could make improvements to the Dail at any time. And I would contend that renovations to Dail would be much better money spent than a $15M dorm spent on 24 basketball players living arrangements.

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Why would NC State want to improve Dail softball complex or Dail Soccer Field/Track Complex or Dail Basketball Center or Dail Club Seats at Carter-Finley stadium or Dail Baseball Facility prior to Doak Field at Dail Park?

Wolfer79 said:

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BigLefty24 said:

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No, simply playing devils advocate to the "we ain't got no money" crowd and the "ROI" crowd.

We could make improvements to the Dail at any time. And I would contend that renovations to Dail would be much better money spent than a $15M dorm spent on 24 basketball players living arrangements.

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Why would NC State want to improve Dail softball complex or Dail Soccer Field/Track Complex or Dail Basketball Center or Dail Club Seats at Carter-Finley stadium or Dail Baseball Facility prior to Doak Field at Dail Park?

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We need a new Dail to step up. Wish I had the money.

WolfPacker54 said:

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Pocketflask said:

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BigLefty24 said:

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State could start construction on upgrades or a new park next week if they wanted to. The old "we ain't got no money" shtick is really over played.

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I don't believe there is an unlimited pool of money and the question becomes where is the money we do have best spent. The ROI on a baseball investment isn't good.

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Gotta think $10 - 20 million on upgradiing Doak would yield a better ROI then $30 million on Reynolds. People actually come to baseball games.

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I don't think either will return a +ROI.

That wasn't the point. Obviously it won't, but if we're willing to spend that much on women's basketball, why not spend money on baseball, which is more popular?

The money spent on Reynolds affected more sports than just WBB. We were also 12th in the nation in attendance for Wrestling. I don't know what our VBall attendance was, but that sport is also enjoying a resurgence in the new venue. We've gotten good value out of our dollars spent on Reynolds. Now, we need to find the donors to provide upgrades for Doak and our swimming facilities as well.

NC State is land locked on main and Centineal campi. The Doak sits in a crappy spot for fans with average to below average atmosphere.

Yes a case could be made to green site to CC. This would open up main campus space for what future use? It is a more expensive option and creates the future dilemma of use of space on CC.

Does the old soccer complex on Method Rd have sufficient space? It would improve access, but parking again may be limited unless we rent space from Islamic Center down the street.

It's a money and space utilization problem which will need some momentum to address. In the meantime, The Doak is The Doak with new paint every few years and maybe some technology.

I heard the Athletics Dept CFO speak at a CPA event back in Feb. only spending in current budget horizon is $6million for ACC Network broadcast facility which must happen by 2019 network start-up on every ACC campus. She did mention the need for improvements or relocation of the Doak, but it was mentioned in the same vein as a new pool for the swim team. Both needs are recognized, both face same spending challenge.

Swim team results with current outdated short course only facility are amazing, but jury is out whether it is helping a new pool decision or justifying current facility is not holding us back. IMO, the university as a whole needs a new pool facility considering Carmichael was in use when student population was near 10K, Casey was coaching and not built to handle a 33K university. At least The Doak can handle current and near term needs.

Both will be issues to be managed by our next AD. I doubt Yow wants to fight this obstacle as her last fight.

OBTW, the CFO also commented on East side improvements to CFS. Sort of in same boat as The Doak & Carmichael. The AD DEPT sees and knows improvements are overdue, but "show me the money".

Personally I could see The Doak and east side CFS projects get legs if beer sales are approved justified by concourse and bathroom needs to handle concessions. The "beer" battle is waiting for the politics to line up favorably because the thought is a decision will be a one time opportunity.

WolfPacker54 said:

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That wasn't the point. Obviously it won't, but if we're willing to spend that much on women's basketball, why not spend money on baseball, which is more popular?

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There was a lot more to the Reynolds reno than an investment in women's sports. Historic and environmental concerns were a big drivers in the decision.

Pocketflask said:

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WolfPacker54 said:

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That wasn't the point. Obviously it won't, but if we're willing to spend that much on women's basketball, why not spend money on baseball, which is more popular?

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There was a lot more to the Reynolds reno than an investment in women's sports. Historic and environmental concerns were a big drivers in the decision.

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I get that but I was responding to the ROI comment. Also I'd rather spend money on trying to win for the future than trying to preserve our history. It's been a quarter century since we won a conference championship in football, basketball, or baseball. Our athletics have been a JOKE since the late 80's.

As for Boshamer stadium. All courtesy of George Steinbrenner. Not UNC alum. Think his son went there. Maybe some of our pro baseball athletes could fork out some generosity to their alma mater. Sure we wouldn't mind putting their name on something there.

Yow said in one of her exit interviews with media that NC State is still paying for last round of renovations for Doak Field at Dail Park. That and other Athletic Department capital project debt is being paid off at $500,000 a year until I think 2022.

Athletic Department is looking for donor to pay significant portion of the $7 million for ACC Network studio also.

WPC is paying debt from Indoor Practice Facility and Reynolds Renovation/Hall of Fame.

Until those debts are reduced, I would not anticipate any major improvements at Doak Field at Dail Park.