So the noose thing was a hoax. Good grief!

RunsWithWolves26 said:

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And this is reason number 457 why I haven't watched a Nascar race in 8 years. Bubba Wallace has been a joke from the beginning. He ran with this for the attention and NASCAR, being the idiots they are, did the same. Nascar died a long time ago.

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Mehh.the story was hyped too quickly for sure. I'm not sure how anyone mistook what is a common thing on a pull string for a noose --- but there is good that has, and can, come from this.

Lets assume for a moment that the story on pit road before the race was legit. Where everyone rallied around Bubba. Noose or not, that would have been a reasonable gesture with everything else going on in the sport (you know, like a plane flying over the track with a rebel flag, or all kinds of trucks outside the track with flags raised high).

Lets assume for another moment, that an otherwise pedestrian team gets to shine a guy who comes across as likeable and plugged into the scene, and he can, like the postrace event yesterday, be a beacon to attract a new crowd -- be that the couple dozen black fans there yesterday, or some athletes from other sports who are plugging in now.

In otherwords.he is, and can be, a vehicle for change. An easy one (for us) to rally around, at that. Heck, noose or not, its much tougher on him than it is on you or me to be carrying that burden.

Heh! NASCAR and Wallace aren't buying the results of the FBI investigation.

"We are continuing our investigation as to why a rope was fashioned into a noose," Steve Phelps, NASCAR President.

"From the evidence we have, that I have, it's a straight up noose." Bubba Wallace, NASCAR Driver

Should be entertaining to see where this goes from here.

Also, what is the price tag for two days of travel and salary for fifteen FBI agents. Yes, they actually sent fifteen agents. Taxpayers screwed again. Hopefully the super sleuths at NASCAR and Team Wallace can show the FBI how investigations are done.

All this over a driver that is about as accomplished in Nascar as Danica Patrick was.

That narrative didn't work so lets try another one.......

It wasn't Bubba's fault initially. He has doubled down on it though so he owns it now. Being a victim is heroic these days.

It wasn't a noose.

packgrad said:

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It wasn't Bubba's fault initially. He has doubled down on it though so he owns it now. Being a victim is heroic these days.

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Bubba looks bad for doubling down. That's the worst thing he could've done. Just took all the good will he had previously generated and threw it out the window.

PossumJenkins said:

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Bubba Wallace reacted the same way anyone would have reacted had they been told what was found. Bubba didn't find it or report it. He was told. I certainly don't excuse NASCAR for a knee jerk reaction but unfortunately that's where we are in this climate.

And i think part of the problem is...it was believable. I don't think you'd have a hard time saying...yeah that could happen.

Also I've worked in every NASCAR garage across the country and haven't seen a garage pull like that. Totally was there earlier and a crazy coincidence Bubba got assigned to that particular stall...but i don't think Bubba is to blame here.

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Thank you for your perspective! Interesting on your comment about experience with garage pull-downs -- frankly, after hearing the fbi explanation, I assumed that was a common thing, to have those pulldowns.

While it is easy, and probably right to a degree to think NASCAR over-reacted...they also erred in the right way. These are extremely sensitive times...and you don't have to be a bleeding heart liberal to be disturbed by the plane with the flag or the other activities around the track this w/e to think..."it could happen". Just look at the comments from Mike Skinner's son this w/e...mix in some alcohol, and not crazy to see someone acting on something like that.

So let an independent source come in and clear things up, even though it makes them look a bit silly for the initial reaction. What I'm still not real clear on though...the timeline of the initial report, and who did that?

Reportedly wasn't Bubba.....was it a crew member? NASCAR official? Who?

Any rope with a loop in it looks like a noose if you want it to look like a noose. I was very skeptical of this from the start. Virtually every high profile noose related incident reported turns out to be nothing (see the one in Oakland just last week). The reason is that modern day racists and white supremacists simply don't use the noose symbolism like the previous generations did. Modern day racism, while it absolutely exists, is much more likely to be subversive and subtle compared to the overt racism of the past. It's why things like this become national news, when 50-60 years ago it wouldn't have been reported at all. I'm quite certain that Bubba has been subjected to racism in his life, particularly given his chosen profession. I'd be willing to bet that he has received lots of hateful emails and DMs and things of that nature over his stance on BLM and the confederate flag. But someone breaking into a garage to hang a noose? I would've been shocked if that turned out to be what happened.

I don't necessarily fault the parties involved for the reaction to it, but I also don't think that you can simply write it off as "well something like that could've happened, so it's a good thing". What if an actual person had been accused of this? Some janitor or something, only for it to turn out to be nothing? That person's life would've been ruined. There's no getting back your reputation in things like this. I'm also disappointed that Bubba is doubling down on it now. Even with it not being what was reported, he still had an opportunity to turn it into a constructive dialogue, but doubling down on it now loses much of the goodwill that he had earned. For the people that already didn't like Bubba and his stances, it only galvanizes that, which is unfortunate.

wilmwolf80 said:

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Any rope with a loop in it looks like a noose if you want it to look like a noose. I was very skeptical of this from the start. Virtually every high profile noose related incident reported turns out to be nothing (see the one in Oakland just last week). The reason is that modern day racists and white supremacists simply don't use the noose symbolism like the previous generations did. Modern day racism, while it absolutely exists, is much more likely to be subversive and subtle compared to the overt racism of the past. It's why things like this become national news, when 50-60 years ago it wouldn't have been reported at all. I'm quite certain that Bubba has been subjected to racism in his life, particularly given his chosen profession. I'd be willing to bet that he has received lots of hateful emails and DMs and things of that nature over his stance on BLM and the confederate flag. But someone breaking into a garage to hang a noose? I would've been shocked if that turned out to be what happened.

I don't necessarily fault the parties involved for the reaction to it, but I also don't think that you can simply write it off as "well something like that could've happened, so it's a good thing". What if an actual person had been accused of this? Some janitor or something, only for it to turn out to be nothing? That person's life would've been ruined. There's no getting back your reputation in things like this. I'm also disappointed that Bubba is doubling down on it now. Even with it not being what was reported, he still had an opportunity to turn it into a constructive dialogue, but doubling down on it now loses much of the goodwill that he had earned. For the people that already didn't like Bubba and his stances, it only galvanizes that, which is unfortunate.

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Agree with this across the board....with only question being about him doubling down. What is that? (not doubting it, just not aware of it).

I do think....this just makes things tougher on him. It's going to ratchet up the folks who were already inclined to dislike him based on skin color, or to thwart his BLM takes, etc....they'll be more vocal now.
I mean, look no further than the tweet from Mike Skinner's son. I'm sure he was drunk, but clearly those thoughts were already there. Whats to say the next drunk idiot doesn't try to act upon those morbid thoughts.

*While I know the media didn't start this....there were clearly some who used the Sunday report as an oppty to bash the sport, its fans, its leadership, etc...and to your point, thankfully no one individual came under question, because yes, that would have been an unrecoverable scenario to be subjected to given today's environment.

https://sports.yahoo.com/bubba-wallace-relieved-that-noose-wasnt-targeted-at-him-believes-it-was-definitely-a-noose-135711273.html


"The photo evidence I've seen and have in my possession [shows] it was a garage pull that was a noose," Wallace said. "I don't know when we'll get to the point that we'll release that image. It's alerting and it makes the hair on the back of your neck stand up."

"As for the intent behind the garage-pull noose, Wallace isn't sure, but he believes it was "definitely in the shape of a noose." He said on "Today" that the FBI isn't sure of the intent either, but it's skeptical of someone taking the time to fashion a noose (albeit a non-functioning one) as just a normal garage pull. Wallace also said the FBI supported his team's decision to take it seriously."

To me, to continue to insist on calling it a noose is silly. What is a non-functioning noose? It's just a loop in a rope. A noose is a very specific thing, with a very specific purpose. It would be different if we were talking about a rope that had been brought into the garage and placed in a manner that it could be seen and interpreted as something else. But this is a rope with a very obvious, defined purpose as a garage door pull, that just happens to have a loop at the end of it. Given the climate and things going on, I can excuse the caution taken by his team and NASCAR and don't fault them for contacting the FBI. But at this point, it is clear that it is not a noose, was not intended to be a noose, and not intended to intimidate Bubba because of his race or stance on social issues.

Just FYI for those taking a victory lap: Bubba didn't report this, NASCAR did. And informed him. It appears to me NASCAR did the correct thing?

PackBacker07 said:

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Just FYI for those taking a victory lap: Bubba didn't report this, NASCAR did. And informed him. It appears to me NASCAR did the correct thing?

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NASCAR shoulders the blame for not investigating before releasing a statement. Bubba shoulders none of that blame IMO.

Bubba shoulders current blame for still propagating this nonsense after it was proven the rope wasn't a noose. It's sad that it reached this point, but he needs to realize he's doing more harm than good at this point by still insisting it was a noose.

It just shows that before people get upset over something they should maybe do a little research first.

PackBacker07 said:

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Just FYI for those taking a victory lap: Bubba didn't report this, NASCAR did. And informed him. It appears to me NASCAR did the correct thing?

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NASCAR alerted FBI...but who reported it to NASCAR as an issue? Phelps said after the FBI, "....in the evidence that was delivered to us....". So did the crew report it? Did a pool reporter? Another driver?

BTW, if this was the only such rope hanging there, even though we can all likely agree it seemed like a logical "tool", I don't blame NASCAR at all for escalating the issue.....no way they can sit on that, do it in house, then stand criticism when the story gets leaked.

ETA: After posting, read the Yahoo link wilm posted, and it indicates a team member reported it.

wilmwolf80 said:

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https://sports.yahoo.com/bubba-wallace-relieved-that-noose-wasnt-targeted-at-him-believes-it-was-definitely-a-noose-135711273.html


"The photo evidence I've seen and have in my possession [shows] it was a garage pull that was a noose," Wallace said. "I don't know when we'll get to the point that we'll release that image. It's alerting and it makes the hair on the back of your neck stand up."

"As for the intent behind the garage-pull noose, Wallace isn't sure, but he believes it was "definitely in the shape of a noose." He said on "Today" that the FBI isn't sure of the intent either, but it's skeptical of someone taking the time to fashion a noose (albeit a non-functioning one) as just a normal garage pull. Wallace also said the FBI supported his team's decision to take it seriously."

To me, to continue to insist on calling it a noose is silly. What is a non-functioning noose? It's just a loop in a rope. A noose is a very specific thing, with a very specific purpose. It would be different if we were talking about a rope that had been brought into the garage and placed in a manner that it could be seen and interpreted as something else. But this is a rope with a very obvious, defined purpose as a garage door pull, that just happens to have a loop at the end of it. Given the climate and things going on, I can excuse the caution taken by his team and NASCAR and don't fault them for contacting the FBI. But at this point, it is clear that it is not a noose, was not intended to be a noose, and not intended to intimidate Bubba because of his race or stance on social issues.

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I guess my thought here...and I've probably evolved on this in the past few months with all that is going on...is that while I may look at it and think "no big deal, that's a rope tie used for a specific purpose", I probably shouldn't tell a black person to just accept it the same way. I can see why he may think of it as a "noose", whatever connotation we white guys may think.

Two....I don't mind him continuing to signify that he will not take any threats, ignorance, etc lying down. Accept the findings, be glad you aren't targeted, but remind everyone you will be diligent, and not intimidated.

Lets hope he and others can move on....would love to see NASCAR put together some kind of roundtable with he, maybe JJohnson, Junior, Gordon, Blaney, or several other influential drivers from different backgrounds, and have some discussions about such things.

Eh. I would never in a million years tell him how to react or think about something as a person of color because I am not in that position. I have no problem with his initial reaction to it, given the climate, nor how it was handled. But once you know it isn't a noose, you can't keep calling that. Intent HAS to matter. Otherwise my dog's leash is a "non functional noose". Or the stretch rope I use to stretch with after exercising. Or the rope tying the boat to the dock. Or any other rope like object with a loop tied in it. It does a disservice to true instances of hate crimes and racial injustice to not just accept that this was not one of those instances and move on. Or we can call the FBI anytime a person of color finds a rope with a loop on it, but I fail to see the progress that will make. As to your last point, I like the idea of a round table discussion, open dialogue is the best method to effect change.

wilmwolf80 said:

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Eh. I would never in a million years tell him how to react or think about something as a person of color because I am not in that position. I have no problem with his initial reaction to it, given the climate, nor how it was handled. But once you know it isn't a noose, you can't keep calling that. Intent HAS to matter. Otherwise my dog's leash is a "non functional noose". Or the stretch rope I use to stretch with after exercising. Or the rope tying the boat to the dock. Or any other rope like object with a loop tied in it. It does a disservice to true instances of hate crimes and racial injustice to not just accept that this was not one of those instances and move on. Or we can call the FBI anytime a person of color finds a rope with a loop on it, but I fail to see the progress that will make. As to your last point, I like the idea of a round table discussion, open dialogue is the best method to effect change.

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My rational mind 100% agrees with you, fwiw.

I'm trying to be more open-minded to view how a POC sees stuff like this, symbols and such, but I do agree this one is difficult to discern.
As I mentioned in an earlier post....none of this makes things any easier on Bubba, which is the most unfortunate thing. I hope his fellow drivers will continue to get his back....and I think there are some smart heads there leading that group, like JJ, that will make sure it happens.

Nm

Certainly looks like a noose. What do the other garage door pulls look like?

PackBacker07 said:

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That perspective is much different than the one previously released from outside the stall. I'll go back to what I said yesterday....trying to put myself into the shoes of a black man in these charged times...I can see that as a noose.


I thought it interesting too that Phelps said in his presser today that they reviewed all tracks -- 1684 garage stalls, found only 11 ropes as pulldowns....and only one fashioned as a noose....the one that caused the controversy.

Packchem91 said:

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PackBacker07 said:

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That perspective is much different than the one previously released from outside the stall. I'll go back to what I said yesterday....trying to put myself into the shoes of a black man in these charged times...I can see that as a noose.


I thought it interesting too that Phelps said in his presser today that they reviewed all tracks -- 1684 garage stalls, found only 11 ropes as pulldowns....and only one fashioned as a noose....the one that caused the controversy.

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Yep. Pretty telling IMO.

@UniWatch @PhilHecken Sam Mayer will have his car adorned w/ imagery for Carson Wentz's @AO1Foundation. Founded in 2017 AO1 (Audience of 1) is dedicated to "Uplifting individuals & communities around the world by demonstrating God's love for His people." @cj_wentz #FlyEaglesFly

Big weekend ahead, starting tonight at 6. Can't wait!

ncsupack1 said:

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Big weekend ahead, starting tonight at 6. Can't wait!

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thanks

not on Awful Announcing schedule but ARCA race started at 6pm on FS1 tonight