GoPack2008 said:
Pacfanweb said:
GoPack2008 said:
Bas2020 said:
GoPack2008 said:
James Henderson said:
GoPack2008 said:
James Henderson said:
Packchem91 said:
Civilized said:
Bas2020 said:
IseWolf22 said:
I just don't get why any of these reforms are so controversial, or why Republicans are the primary opposition. Cops are agents of the state. If you're concerned with government power and overreach, you should be concerned about Police reforms. They are the enforcement arm of government power. And if "99.9%" of officers are great then these changes are only going to affect the remainder who have no business having a badge and gun
Republicans aren't against reforms , heck that is what Tim Scott has been working on for years with opportunity zones and other reforms . What Republicans don't like is cities burning to the ground and looted under what often is a false racial narrative perpetuated by the media . You remember the Michael Brown hoax with hands up don't shoot that was complete lies, even the Obama DOJ came to that conclusion . Stop with the race baiting at every turn and many more people will come to your side .
Police killings caught on video are the most severe, visible, visceral bad outcome for black Americans in criminal justice so they're going to be a lightning rod. That's not surprising.
Make no mistake, there's no "false narrative" about outcomes for black Americans in policing and criminal justice in this country.
Go look at rates of stops, searches, charges, convictions, false convictions, paroles, or whatever you want to look at, and make the case that bias in the system is a "false narrative."
THAT is what black America is furious about.
Yeah, I'm not sure why anyone would even try to argue against your points anymore. I get people being angry about the reactionary violence in the streets. Its scary to all of us.
But listen to some of these black adults in positions of power / influence who have been stopped, frisked, roughed up, questioned, etc for doing nothing. Listen to a person who is black and that you respect talk about how he has to tell his sons how to be careful if ever stopped by a cop, even if they did nothing wrong.
As a dad, as a citizen, as a "Christian", as a _____, how do those things not make any of us saddened and angry?
We can all bicker about the men who have been caught in these videos dying at the hands of cops....some were bad guys. Few were saints. Many of them acted out in a way that absolutely put them in position to get hurt.
But....if you've grown up as a lesser citizen --- and you've seen this forever....and then you see TV images of cops shooting a black man while other cops walk by a white crazed teen with a rifle....why would you not be angry?
I agree and to me, police brutality is a different topic than systemic racism/discrimination.
While we're on that topic though, what about the Lumbee Indians, my race, who the government won't federally recognize. Imagine how it feels to be told by the government you aren't real, or don't exist.
That's kind of discrimination right? But hey, who cares about us?
Dude, I'm fully in support of the Lumbee Indians. Grew up one county over from Robeson county. What you describe is ABSOLUTELY discrimination, and the very definition of systemic racism.
Black people protesting for their rights doesn't negatively impact youthey're opposing the same power structures and institutions that have hurt the Lumbee people.
But this isn't a black issue here. Just like I don't view it as a native american issue. This is police brutality.
I'm not sure why they are lumped together.
Because police brutality happens to black people, per capita, WAY more often than it does to white people.
Because policing in America has often disproportionately harmed black people.
You can't fully separate the two issues.
Why are you using per capita? Why not use the % of interactions with police which would give you a much better data point ? Blacks kill blacks and blacks kill whites at a much higher rate than any other race it's not even close .
I don't think black people are inherently more criminal than white people, so I use per capita. Do you think black people are inherently more criminal than white people?
If they aren't, then why do they commit crime at such a disproportionate amount relative to their percentage of the population?
They commit half, or just over half of all murders. They kill more people total in a typical year, and they kill more whites than whites kill blacks.
It's not just that one category, either. In most all violent crime categories, the percentage of blacks that commit them is WAY out of whack with the 13% they comprise of our population.
So I don't see how you can make that statement.
They don't murder so many people year after year because the police bother them more.
I'm not sure your numbers are accurate, but I'll dig into that tomorrow. Certainly context matters, and you can contort things in all sorts of ways. Most murders are also committed by men. You and I are both men. Does that make us more prone to violence?
Let's assume, for the sake of simplicity, that all of your statements are correct.
Why do you think that is so? Do you think black people are inherently more violent and criminal than white people? If so, why?
Yes, it's not debatable that men are more prone to violence. Testosterone and all that.
The numbers are accurate. You can take it to the bank.
Now, it depends on what you mean by "inherently".
If all other external factors are identical other than race, then I can't tell you if they'd be more likely to commit crimes.
But everyone's average financial situation isn't the same. And poor people tend to commit more crimes.
So you'd think just based on that, that since black people tend to be poor at a higher rate, they'd commit more crime. And they do. WAY out of proportion to their population percentage. That much isn't debatable.
Now, there are roughly 25 million whites in poverty, compared to over 9 million blacks in poverty.
Black poverty rate is double...20% to 10%....but there are a LOT more whites in poverty.
In fact, there are only 44 million-ish blacks, total. There's well over half that number of whites in poverty.
Yet blacks commit half the murders.
Not sure what other conclusion I'm supposed to come up with. If it was just poverty that was the problem, you'd think there would be a hell of a lot more killings by whites, who have nearly 3x the number of people in poverty.
Obviously the crime rate among poor whites is also higher....but if they were just as violent, there should be more deaths caused by poor whites since there are almost 3X as many of them as there are poor blacks.
But that's not the case.
"According to the
US Department of Justice, African Americans accounted for 52.5% of all homicide offenders from 1980 to 2008, with Whites 45.3% and "Other" 2.2%. The offending rate for African Americans was almost eight times higher than Whites, and the victim rate six times higher."
"According to the
National Crime Victimization Survey in 2002, robberies with white victims and black offenders were more than 12 times more common than vice versa.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States#cite_note-53][53][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States#cite_note-54][54][/url]"
"Of the 822,671 arrests for non-aggravated assault, 31.4% were black and 18.4% Hispanic."