Ripper said:

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Civilized said:

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Pacfanweb said:

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I have things that are important to me, too. The ones involving politics and religion, however....I do not get to wear slogans and spout those things in my work place or in the course of doing my job.

I don't care what's important to ballplayers, unless it's something about playing ball. I see enough politics and religion everywhere else. Sports is entertainment, it's meant to be a distraction from everything else. Not the place you go to hear some message from a semi-literate idiot who can't even relate to things like BLM anyway because they're rich and have been pampered all their lives since about middle school.

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When State players acknowledge and/or support social justice issues/BLM this fall, are you going to call them 'semi-literate idiots' too?

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I'd like to think we don't have any semi-literate idiots on our sports teams.

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Packchem91 said:

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caryking said:

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Packchem91 said:

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caryking said:

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Packchem91 said:

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Civilized said:

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packgrad said:

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That's irrelevant. It's not racist. It's not perpetuating racist canards. It's your bull**** cry wolf of racism, and your cry just makes rational people roll their eyes when there are legitimate cries of racism. People like you do more to damage race relations than Trump does, because to people like you, EVERYTHING is racial.

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Our challenges with race in this country are not imagined, they're real.

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Talked to lady I manage today who is black, and I asked her how she is coping with all that is going on.

She is married (her husband works at our same company) and they live in Matthews / Mint Hill (Charlotte) area in a nice neighborhood. Her oldest son just graduated Butler HS, her youngest is in 5th grade.

Live in a mostly white neighborhood. When they go walking, usually as a family, she has absolutely seen neighbors pull their kids back to garage, etc. Her oldest son is a big kid...and in particularly that happens when he is around.
Her husband and a friend were driving just outside (hwy 51) neighborhood and was stopped. Cops came to the car, one on each side, with guns drawn for no other reason as they were just sitting there. One of them saw a bible in the backseat, and then things got calmer. They "looked like some suspects they were after".
Had a policeman come to their house at 1130 one night to ask them to move a car parked in front of house on street (family member visiting)....though no other neighbors have ever been asked to do that.

Her older son has a job nearby while waiting college to start...they had let him walk the 15 minute trip home, but now with all that is going on, are scared a black kid walking down the street might walk into trouble -- either with citizens or police.
Her youngest son was once in a store with her, and was playing with some toys, and asked her "am I going to get shot if they think I stole one of these".

She was very appreciative I asked her. Felt like she could have talked for hours. She is a strong Christian, and is trying to be very open-minded, but is hurting. Hurts for her two boys to have to hear the things they hear, and be afraid of what could happen.

So....yes, racism / profiling and the embedded fear that brings about is very alive and well in 2020. I know this doesn't address all the issues others here have voiced about BLM, media, Trump, anti-Trump, etc.....but thought it would be a good real-life example of how pervasive this is in the minds of your average law-abiding black family.

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None of what you said, above, is acceptable. I am confident black people feel different and are engaged by others like you said. In other words, none of us have a reason not to believe what you've said. Now, with that being said, when any of us are in a situation that doesn't feel right, we need to turn the cheek and just accept it in the moment.

Your co-worker doesn't have to like the way she feels; however, she should probably look around and realize the statistics quoted above and call on other black people to change there behavior. Unfortunately, the behavior of blacks help cause the treatment she receives.

It's the same in reverse: based on how some white people treat black people, the white people get a different look if they go into a black community and it's not very comfortable. Try going into some areas in downtown Raleigh. If your white, you better be careful...

When it comes to crime, the statistics don't lie. In summary, I believe that unfortunate so-called racial aspects of our society have really been perpetuated from statistics that create stereotypes. No, I'm not saying we don't have racist, I just don't believe anything is systemic, unless you throw in affirmative action/quota laws, then I think we do have systemic racism.

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OK -- by your own logic, now you know why black people hate ALL cops. Sure, its only a few that bust heads, single them out, etc....but to a black person, it may as well be all.

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Typical leftest, it appears... see the bold I highlighted.

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I've voted GOP in every election ever. I'm not sure about this year because I'm not sure I can swallow my dignity and vote for the guy who may be one of the worst examples of a decent human being that I've ever seen....but leftist...I am not.

However, I do like to look at people, and situations, with an open mind. If that assigns me some kind of brand...then so be it.

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SupplyChainPack said:

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Packchem91 said:

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caryking said:

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Packchem91 said:

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caryking said:

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Packchem91 said:

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Civilized said:

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packgrad said:

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That's irrelevant. It's not racist. It's not perpetuating racist canards. It's your bull**** cry wolf of racism, and your cry just makes rational people roll their eyes when there are legitimate cries of racism. People like you do more to damage race relations than Trump does, because to people like you, EVERYTHING is racial.

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Our challenges with race in this country are not imagined, they're real.

---

Talked to lady I manage today who is black, and I asked her how she is coping with all that is going on.

She is married (her husband works at our same company) and they live in Matthews / Mint Hill (Charlotte) area in a nice neighborhood. Her oldest son just graduated Butler HS, her youngest is in 5th grade.

Live in a mostly white neighborhood. When they go walking, usually as a family, she has absolutely seen neighbors pull their kids back to garage, etc. Her oldest son is a big kid...and in particularly that happens when he is around.
Her husband and a friend were driving just outside (hwy 51) neighborhood and was stopped. Cops came to the car, one on each side, with guns drawn for no other reason as they were just sitting there. One of them saw a bible in the backseat, and then things got calmer. They "looked like some suspects they were after".
Had a policeman come to their house at 1130 one night to ask them to move a car parked in front of house on street (family member visiting)....though no other neighbors have ever been asked to do that.

Her older son has a job nearby while waiting college to start...they had let him walk the 15 minute trip home, but now with all that is going on, are scared a black kid walking down the street might walk into trouble -- either with citizens or police.
Her youngest son was once in a store with her, and was playing with some toys, and asked her "am I going to get shot if they think I stole one of these".

She was very appreciative I asked her. Felt like she could have talked for hours. She is a strong Christian, and is trying to be very open-minded, but is hurting. Hurts for her two boys to have to hear the things they hear, and be afraid of what could happen.

So....yes, racism / profiling and the embedded fear that brings about is very alive and well in 2020. I know this doesn't address all the issues others here have voiced about BLM, media, Trump, anti-Trump, etc.....but thought it would be a good real-life example of how pervasive this is in the minds of your average law-abiding black family.

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None of what you said, above, is acceptable. I am confident black people feel different and are engaged by others like you said. In other words, none of us have a reason not to believe what you've said. Now, with that being said, when any of us are in a situation that doesn't feel right, we need to turn the cheek and just accept it in the moment.

Your co-worker doesn't have to like the way she feels; however, she should probably look around and realize the statistics quoted above and call on other black people to change there behavior. Unfortunately, the behavior of blacks help cause the treatment she receives.

It's the same in reverse: based on how some white people treat black people, the white people get a different look if they go into a black community and it's not very comfortable. Try going into some areas in downtown Raleigh. If your white, you better be careful...

When it comes to crime, the statistics don't lie. In summary, I believe that unfortunate so-called racial aspects of our society have really been perpetuated from statistics that create stereotypes. No, I'm not saying we don't have racist, I just don't believe anything is systemic, unless you throw in affirmative action/quota laws, then I think we do have systemic racism.

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OK -- by your own logic, now you know why black people hate ALL cops. Sure, its only a few that bust heads, single them out, etc....but to a black person, it may as well be all.

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Typical leftest, it appears... see the bold I highlighted.

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I've voted GOP in every election ever. I'm not sure about this year because I'm not sure I can swallow my dignity and vote for the guy who may be one of the worst examples of a decent human being that I've ever seen....but leftist...I am not.

However, I do like to look at people, and situations, with an open mind. If that assigns me some kind of brand...then so be it.

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We've seen this technique for decades. It particularly turns up in election years.

It goes like this -

An obvious liberal at some point drops a statement similar to:

" I was a lifelong Republican until _________ was President. He was so horrible, I'll never vote for another Republican the rest of my life!"

The blank has been filled in with Reagan, HW Bush, W Bush, and now they're doing it again with Trump.

After you discuss things with them for awhile, you discover that they have liberal views on every topic under the sun. But they're here to tell us that they would be a Republican right now if it wasn't for evil, stupid ___________.

Why do they keep doing this? It's oddball stuff, but they pull it out of the rhetorical trunk every election cycle.

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lumberpack5 said:

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cowboypack02 said:

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Civilized said:

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cowboypack02 said:

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Civilized said:

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cowboypack02 said:

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Just to clarify....Cannon Hinnant wasn't a hate crime. Neither was the death of the white girl who was killed by 4 african american girls in Raleigh a week or two ago.

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What's your definition of a hate crime?

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Killing someone based on their skin color, religion, political party or sex.

I don't know what was in the heart of someone when they decide to take a life....neither do you. All i can see is the glaring double standard.

• The cop who shot Michael Brown was deemed a racist....even through he was just trying to save his own life.
• Jacob Blake had the cops called on him because he was trying to rape someone at his ex-girlfriend's house, then didn't listen to the cops, fought with him, and then went to his car and was reaching in for something when he was shot.
• There is no proof that what happened with George Floyd was due to race
• There is no proof that what heppened with Breonna Taylor is due to race

We have been told that all of these are hate crimes....but there is no proof of it. Am I just suppose to accept it for what i am told with no other critical thinking?

If i bring up Cannon Hinnant, Veronica Baker, Laura Anderson and Charles Wall there isn't a peep of it being a hate crime even through all of them were randomly killed by someone who was black. I don't know if it was race driven or not...but i do know how each has been treated.

The narrative is that if a white person is killed by a black person then there is no way that it is race driven, but if a black person is killed by a white person then it must be a race crime.

Take the blinders off man

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I agree the media treats blacks killing whites and whites killing blacks differently. 100%.

But not completely without reason.

Given our country's history of enslaving and killing blacks, and denying them equal justice, black Americans are rightly indignant about being killed by white people too often in this country, many times without justice being served.

These recent killings of blacks by cops have been deemed to be products of a justice system that's infused with institutional racial bias much more than they've been construed as hate crimes. Just because an action is enabled by institutional bias doesn't make it a hate crime.

The cops that pull over and search black Americans 2x - 4x more often than white Americans aren't doing it because they're all racist; those cops and their behaviors are also products of a biased system. They treat black Americans differently than whites. That's what black Americans are so tired of.

Again, think of the irony here.

You're tired of white Americans too often being portrayed as racists in the liberal media. This perception doesn't actually affect your day to day life one iota. Not one bit.

Black Americans are tired of their lives actually being impacted in meaningful ways by institutional bias and racism. These biases affect their life almost every single day, in meaningful ways.

Which issue is of greater importance? Which is the greater problem to solve?

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Black people are approximately 13% of the population here in the us but they commit 52% of all violent crimes....of course they are going to have more interaction with the people who enforce the law. The cops aren't going to be interacting as much with people who aren't as likely to commit a crime. Why would they?

That's why that particular population is treated differently.

A justice system that is infused with racism? there are approximately 663000 police who interact with the public almost 3 million times on a daily basis....and there is systematic racism because of a few cops? Thats a joke man.

Are there a few cops who go to far...Absolutely. Are there cops that shouldn't be cops...absolutely. It astounds me that you are willing to paint an entire group of people as racist because of a few isolated incidents. Whats worse is that you aren't willing to think critically about it at all. You have said in a previous comment that Trump is xenophobic because of the way that he referred to a a portion of illegal immigrants....aren't you just doing the exact same thing by painting the police force in the US the same way over the actions of a few?

Its not a black and white thing....but people just don't seem to care when it happens to someone that isn't black

Tony Timpa died the exact same way as George Floyd did.....but no one cares...
Duncan Lemp died the exact same way as Breonna Taylor did....but no cares...

The media didn't care....The politicians didn't care....We didn't have riots....You weren't talking about systematic racism. The difference between Timpa/Lemp and Floyd/Taylor....the first two were white while the second two are black. Since you have decided to give racism such a broad brush....that seems awfully racist to me

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Blacks make up 13% of the population, but they are 23% of the poor the way the Census defines it and there are 44.2 million poor people in the US, give or take.
White make up 73% of the population but only 54% of the poor.
Hispanics make up 13.5% of the population and almost 18% of the poor.
Asians make up only 5.4% of the population and make up only 4% of the poor.

Raw population numbers don't mean a great deal. But when you look at the details you find that black people at about three times as likely to be poor as compared to white people.

That is the core behind crime statistics - poverty. Crime exists in areas with not black folk. Check of the crimes in Montana, Idaho, etc., - they will be committed by whites and native Americans, but in most cases both will be poor.

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Pacfanweb said:

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James Henderson said:

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SupplyChainPack said:

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Just not wanting to support their racism (and via BLM) the Marxism they are promoting.

In the same way, I wouldn't stop at just skipping over the portion of the broadcast that promotes child rape, if they were to go down that path.

Even further, if what I heard is true, your not going to be able to miss the BLM messaging the entire broadcast. Practically every camera shot will send the message.

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I see it during the NBA games now, it's on the court too. I'm not sure what the big deal is about it. BLM is important to the players in all leagues.

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I have things that are important to me, too. The ones involving politics and religion, however....I do not get to wear slogans and spout those things in my work place or in the course of doing my job.

I don't care what's important to ballplayers, unless it's something about playing ball. I see enough politics and religion everywhere else. Sports is entertainment, it's meant to be a distraction from everything else. Not the place you go to hear some message from a semi-literate idiot who can't even relate to things like BLM anyway because they're rich and have been pampered all their lives since about middle school.

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packgrad said:

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Veiled threats from the presidential candidate. I thought this comment about it was appropriate, and funny.

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ciscopack said:

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Umbrella Man

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packgrad said:

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ciscopack said:

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Umbrella Man

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It was the white supremacist that made those black people loot that store. Are you so brainwashed you don't realize how stupid that is?

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ciscopack said:

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packgrad said:

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ciscopack said:

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Umbrella Man

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It was the white supremacist that made those black people loot that store. Are you so brainwashed you don't realize how stupid that is?

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I just posted a story about Umbrella man and you flip out!!!!!!!!! lmao

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packgrad said:

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ciscopack said:

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packgrad said:

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ciscopack said:

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Umbrella Man

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It was the white supremacist that made those black people loot that store. Are you so brainwashed you don't realize how stupid that is?

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I just posted a story about Umbrella man and you flip out!!!!!!!!! lmao

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We clearly have different definitions of flipping out. Do you care to comment on any of the posts you've been spamming with, or are you just trying to be a victim?

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cowboypack02 said:

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IseWolf22 said:

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James Henderson said:

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DrummerboyWolf said:

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James Henderson said:

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SupplyChainPack said:

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Just not wanting to support their racism (and via BLM) the Marxism they are promoting.

In the same way, I wouldn't stop at just skipping over the portion of the broadcast that promotes child rape, if they were to go down that path.

Even further, if what I heard is true, your not going to be able to miss the BLM messaging the entire broadcast. Practically every camera shot will send the message.

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I see it during the NBA games now, it's on the court too. I'm not sure what the big deal is about it. BLM is important to the players in all leagues.

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James BLM Inc. is a Marxist organization. One of their co-founders said so on tape. If you look at their website they want to destroy the nuclear family among other things. I doubt few if any NBA or NFL players know that. This organization is trying to overthrow the United States of America and the Constitution. All lives matter. Black Brown, White, Red, Yellow and so on. The message for police reform is being lost because of what BLM Inc. stands for.

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Is it possible to some that the slogan has more value/meaning than the actual organization?

Hell I didn't even know it was an organization, moreso a campaign/statement.

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The slogan existed before the organization. The organization coopted a popular slogan for their own goals. Most BLM supporters don't know anything about the formal organization.
Similar or my earlier comment on Democrats overplaying the race card, conservatives have overplayed the Marxist/socialist card. Lots of people think that "BLM is a Marxist organization" is just conservatives calling something they don't like Marxist again (it's not in this case).

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Well....the cofounder of the organization quite literally said that it was a Marxist organization...so there is that...

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IseWolf22 said:

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cowboypack02 said:

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IseWolf22 said:

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James Henderson said:

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DrummerboyWolf said:

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James Henderson said:

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SupplyChainPack said:

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Just not wanting to support their racism (and via BLM) the Marxism they are promoting.

In the same way, I wouldn't stop at just skipping over the portion of the broadcast that promotes child rape, if they were to go down that path.

Even further, if what I heard is true, your not going to be able to miss the BLM messaging the entire broadcast. Practically every camera shot will send the message.

---

I see it during the NBA games now, it's on the court too. I'm not sure what the big deal is about it. BLM is important to the players in all leagues.

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James BLM Inc. is a Marxist organization. One of their co-founders said so on tape. If you look at their website they want to destroy the nuclear family among other things. I doubt few if any NBA or NFL players know that. This organization is trying to overthrow the United States of America and the Constitution. All lives matter. Black Brown, White, Red, Yellow and so on. The message for police reform is being lost because of what BLM Inc. stands for.

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Is it possible to some that the slogan has more value/meaning than the actual organization?

Hell I didn't even know it was an organization, moreso a campaign/statement.

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The slogan existed before the organization. The organization coopted a popular slogan for their own goals. Most BLM supporters don't know anything about the formal organization.
Similar or my earlier comment on Democrats overplaying the race card, conservatives have overplayed the Marxist/socialist card. Lots of people think that "BLM is a Marxist organization" is just conservatives calling something they don't like Marxist again (it's not in this case).

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Well....the cofounder of the organization quite literally said that it was a Marxist organization...so there is that...

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My last sentence was confusing. Sorry I was typing on my phone while watching TV.
My point is that the formal BLM organization is Marxist, but that most liberals now ignore any charge of marxism from the right because it's been overplayed.
The fact of the matter is that 90% of people wearing BLM shirts and saying it have no affiliation to the formal organization and simply support the broader movement.

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IseWolf22 said:

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cowboypack02 said:

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IseWolf22 said:

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James Henderson said:

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DrummerboyWolf said:

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James Henderson said:

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SupplyChainPack said:

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Just not wanting to support their racism (and via BLM) the Marxism they are promoting.

In the same way, I wouldn't stop at just skipping over the portion of the broadcast that promotes child rape, if they were to go down that path.

Even further, if what I heard is true, your not going to be able to miss the BLM messaging the entire broadcast. Practically every camera shot will send the message.

---

I see it during the NBA games now, it's on the court too. I'm not sure what the big deal is about it. BLM is important to the players in all leagues.

---

James BLM Inc. is a Marxist organization. One of their co-founders said so on tape. If you look at their website they want to destroy the nuclear family among other things. I doubt few if any NBA or NFL players know that. This organization is trying to overthrow the United States of America and the Constitution. All lives matter. Black Brown, White, Red, Yellow and so on. The message for police reform is being lost because of what BLM Inc. stands for.

---

Is it possible to some that the slogan has more value/meaning than the actual organization?

Hell I didn't even know it was an organization, moreso a campaign/statement.

---

The slogan existed before the organization. The organization coopted a popular slogan for their own goals. Most BLM supporters don't know anything about the formal organization.
Similar or my earlier comment on Democrats overplaying the race card, conservatives have overplayed the Marxist/socialist card. Lots of people think that "BLM is a Marxist organization" is just conservatives calling something they don't like Marxist again (it's not in this case).

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Well....the cofounder of the organization quite literally said that it was a Marxist organization...so there is that...

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My last sentence was confusing. Sorry I was typing on my phone while watching TV.
My point is that the formal BLM organization is Marxist, but that most liberals now ignore any charge of marxism from the right because it's been overplayed.
The fact of the matter is that 90% of people wearing BLM shirts and saying it have no affiliation to the formal organization and simply support the broader movement.

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SupplyChainPack said:

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IseWolf22 said:

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SupplyChainPack said:

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IseWolf22 said:

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I apparently missed a ton the several days I haven't been looking at this thread. There is way too much to even attempt to respond to.

"What good things has Trump actually done?" should probably be it's own thread so this one doesn't go even further afield. He HAS done some good things. He's also done a lot of bad things. But specifically to those who thing we are "winning" the trade war. How? Almost every economist thinks protectionism is bad and the trade war has been a drag on an otherwise well functioning economy. It's increased the price of imports, both for consumers and for manufacturers who all rely on global supply chains.
https://reason.com/2019/12/27/trumps-trade-war-has-hurt-american-manufacturers-more-than-it-helped-them/

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Did it cross your radar at all that China just unleashed a horrible virus on the world, and then we (and the world) had to rely heavily on this very same country for much of our PPE to deal with that very same virus?

What do your economists have to say about that?

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They'd say that the US medical supply chain is pretty resilient and China ($13.5 Billion) is only the 4th largest supplier of medical supplies to the US behind Switzerland ($15.5 billion), Germany ($19.6 billion), and Ireland ($27.9 billion).
They'd say that this trade also benefits us as we are China buys more medical supplies from us than from anyone else except Germany. They'd say that global supply chains reduce costs for everyone and increase manufacturing efficiency.

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It reminds me of what an economist said one time:. "You can't eat GNP" when referring to loss of farms.

There are factors - not the least of which- is national security - which are vastly more important than the fact that China can produce PPE a few cents cheaper per unit than US manufacturers.

Being dependant on the very country that unleashed this catastrophe on us should have made this point manifestly obvious.

There are numerous other reasons why we need to curtail our dependence on China.

While you are reading up on these economists, please note of if any of them have anything to say about externalities.

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packgrad said:

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The ok sign is a white supremacist signal.

Hawaiian shirts are a sign of white supremacy.

"Dog whistles"

But the official website of BLM listing their views doesn't count.

There really needs to be a rule book.

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IseWolf22 said:

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packgrad said:

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The ok sign is a white supremacist signal.

Hawaiian shirts are a sign of white supremacy.

"Dog whistles"

But the official website of BLM listing their views doesn't count.

There really needs to be a rule book.

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The OK sign isnt a white supremacist signal. It's an epic troll on the left that has taken on a life of its own. It's stupid and everyone should just roll their eyes and ignore it.

I've never heard of the Hawaiian shirt thing. Probably something dumb too.

Look, a lot of the culture war BS our nation is raging about our dumb non-issues

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packgrad said:

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IseWolf22 said:

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packgrad said:

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The ok sign is a white supremacist signal.

Hawaiian shirts are a sign of white supremacy.

"Dog whistles"

But the official website of BLM listing their views doesn't count.

There really needs to be a rule book.

---

The OK sign isnt a white supremacist signal. It's an epic troll on the left that has taken on a life of its own. It's stupid and everyone should just roll their eyes and ignore it.

I've never heard of the Hawaiian shirt thing. Probably something dumb too.

Look, a lot of the culture war BS our nation is raging about our dumb non-issues

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Agreed. I'm an addict, but ready for social media to implode. A lot of our issues will disappear.

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IseWolf22 said:

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SupplyChainPack said:

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IseWolf22 said:

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SupplyChainPack said:

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IseWolf22 said:

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I apparently missed a ton the several days I haven't been looking at this thread. There is way too much to even attempt to respond to.

"What good things has Trump actually done?" should probably be it's own thread so this one doesn't go even further afield. He HAS done some good things. He's also done a lot of bad things. But specifically to those who thing we are "winning" the trade war. How? Almost every economist thinks protectionism is bad and the trade war has been a drag on an otherwise well functioning economy. It's increased the price of imports, both for consumers and for manufacturers who all rely on global supply chains.
https://reason.com/2019/12/27/trumps-trade-war-has-hurt-american-manufacturers-more-than-it-helped-them/

---

Did it cross your radar at all that China just unleashed a horrible virus on the world, and then we (and the world) had to rely heavily on this very same country for much of our PPE to deal with that very same virus?

What do your economists have to say about that?

---

They'd say that the US medical supply chain is pretty resilient and China ($13.5 Billion) is only the 4th largest supplier of medical supplies to the US behind Switzerland ($15.5 billion), Germany ($19.6 billion), and Ireland ($27.9 billion).
They'd say that this trade also benefits us as we are China buys more medical supplies from us than from anyone else except Germany. They'd say that global supply chains reduce costs for everyone and increase manufacturing efficiency.

---

It reminds me of what an economist said one time:. "You can't eat GNP" when referring to loss of farms.

There are factors - not the least of which- is national security - which are vastly more important than the fact that China can produce PPE a few cents cheaper per unit than US manufacturers.

Being dependant on the very country that unleashed this catastrophe on us should have made this point manifestly obvious.

There are numerous other reasons why we need to curtail our dependence on China.

While you are reading up on these economists, please note of if any of them have anything to say about externalities.

---

We are dependent on global trade, not one nation in particular. That actually makes our supply chain more resilient, not less. What happens if disaster strikes production within the US and we can't easily get replacements from other countries? Protectionism begets retaliation and increases costs and risk.

And when the Pandemic hit, global production of PPE increased dramatically to meet demand, including in the US. Yay capitalism. Unfortunately our stockpiles were low because of two things. First, years of failure to keep national stockpiled filled (this predates Trump). Second, many hospitals were holding off on refilling their own supply because they were hoping to ride out the trade war and avoid paying the tariffs.

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