I always hear about how law enforcement should look to descalate these situations, but I hardly ever hear the same for those being arrested.
Why isn't resisting arrest strongly discouraged and condemned by racial justice proponents, politicians and the media?
Who benefits from resisting arrest?
The person being arrested? Law enforcement? Innocent bystanders?
It seems like a no win situation for everyone involved. I just feel like it should be included in the conversation when discussing these situations.
Because police are supposed to be trained professionals while perps are... criminals. You tend to hold people in positions of authority to a higher standard.
I'm all for more police, better funded police, better trained police, etc. Many have a really hard job. But I want all that to come with liability for their conduct.
But they are human and they have split seconds to make life and death decisions. There are some bad police, but 99.9% I believe are trying to do the right thing. They want to do their job then hopefully come home at night to their family. And you said it perfectly above. "Perps are criminals" and many times they lose their lives during the commission of crimes. We hold the police officers accountable for their actions, but the actions of the criminals get forgotten.
1st, No we don't hold them accountable for their actions. That's pretty much the point of all these pages. For the sake of argument, I'll accept your 99.9% number here. Why is it so damn difficult to punish the 0.1%? Why does the police union block them from being fired? Why are they immune from suits in civil court 99% of the time, even if the judge believes the officer committed misconduct? Why can the rare cop who actually is fired, move a short ways away and get the same job again?
As for the criminal...they are dead. Why should we keep focusing on that. In almost all cases, they weren't committing crimes worthy of the death penalty
That is the justice system then if they are committing misconduct and not being convicted. And yes those crimes did not deserve the death penalty, so don't resist and don't commit crimes and have warrants out for your arrest. It's really pretty simple.
That's the entire reason people are pushing for reform. Unions are major donors to district attorneys and city councils. They are often one of the most powerful political entities in their city. DAs and councils who do not support them are often met with backlash. Officers face peer pressure not testify against other officers.
Unions give cops special rights during misconduct investigations. Those investigations are often secret and not available via normal Freedom of Information requests. A cop who ends up getting fired is entitled to multiple appeals that are usually granted, often against the wishes of their police chief. The rare one that does get fired doesn't have their record checked when they apply to another job elsewhere. Anyone attempting to get justice in Federal court is usually blocked by qualified immunity. QI is an arbitrary standard created by the supreme court and has grown with precedent. A law has to be passed to end the practice.
If there isn't any change, these protests will never stop. We'll be stuck in this stupid cycle over and over.
These protests are not about reform. Initially some were. This is about anarchy and George Floyd was the beginning ember and Blake was just a boiling point to keep things going. This is all about chaos and the overthrow of the Constitution.
I wish someone would do something about the teachers' unions, but that is a different subject.
Last note, Kyle Rittenhouse is being defended by Lin Wood. The same guy that has gotten millions of dollars for Nicholas Sandman from the Washington Post and CNN, with about 6 others getting ready to pay also. Wood is a strong supporter of the 2nd amendment and right to defend. With the videos I have seen, I believe he has a strong case.
I just don't get why any of these reforms are so controversial, or why Republicans are the primary opposition. Cops are agents of the state. If you're concerned with government power and overreach, you should be concerned about Police reforms. They are the enforcement arm of government power. And if "99.9%" of officers are great then these changes are only going to affect the remainder who have no business having a badge and gun
Republicans aren't against reforms , heck that is what Tim Scott has been working on for years with opportunity zones and other reforms . What Republicans don't like is cities burning to the ground and looted under what often is a false racial narrative perpetuated by the media . You remember the Michael Brown hoax with hands up don't shoot that was complete lies, even the Obama DOJ came to that conclusion . Stop with the race baiting at every turn and many more people will come to your side .
I just don't get why any of these reforms are so controversial, or why Republicans are the primary opposition. Cops are agents of the state. If you're concerned with government power and overreach, you should be concerned about Police reforms. They are the enforcement arm of government power. And if "99.9%" of officers are great then these changes are only going to affect the remainder who have no business having a badge and gun
Republicans aren't against reforms , heck that is what Tim Scott has been working on for years with opportunity zones and other reforms . What Republicans don't like is cities burning to the ground and looted under what often is a false racial narrative perpetuated by the media . You remember the Michael Brown hoax with hands up don't shoot that was complete lies, even the Obama DOJ came to that conclusion . Stop with the race baiting at every turn and many more people will come to your side .
Police killings caught on video are the most severe, visible, visceral bad outcome for black Americans in criminal justice so they're going to be a lightning rod. That's not surprising.
Make no mistake, there's no "false narrative" about outcomes for black Americans in policing and criminal justice in this country.
Go look at rates of stops, searches, charges, convictions, false convictions, paroles, or whatever you want to look at, and make the case that bias in the system is a "false narrative."
You wouldn't let your son be a cop but you'd be proud of him for being a vigilante and carrying a gun underage? I'm confused.
I'm sorry, but why does ANY civilian feel the need or responsibility or capability to go to a massive protest, carry a firearm, and "protect" things? It's total insanity. And 17 year olds aren't known to be the most sensible actors, so there's absolutely some responsibility on the parents here.
Because the government agencies called with protecting stuff are not doing their jobs. The police are either told to stand down or are overwhelmed. Had the Governor of Wisconsin brought in the National Guard after the first night of protests then this doesn't happen. Unfortunately it's going to happen more. People are going to defend their property with their 2nd Amendment rights. If the crap starts happening in my neighborhood, I will be locked, ready, and loaded.
The young man was part of a group of militia who's job was to protect property. I don't see how they can get him for anything but manslaughter and that will be a tough road too. He was in fear of his life. The police are not going to show up, so I cannot blame him for defending himself. If more evidence comes out that puts him in a different light, then maybe they can get the murder charge but with what I have seen, self defense is his right and it will be hard to convict him.
Let's be honest: Militias are gangs.
Nobody goes across state lines with a rifle to protect anythingthey are looking to get into something.
It speaks volumes that we are giving more thought to this kid's motives than those of Jacob Blake. It's actually the entire point.
Your not being honest with your comment. Not all militias are gangs. It's in the Constitution. He wasn't the only one there packing. There were other militia members too. They said they were there to protect property.
Jacob Blake had warrants against him. He did not obey the police officers and paid the price. Oh and he had knife too. They did not shoot him because he was black. They shot him because he was a threat and the officer knew he had warrants against him. And don't try to paint George Floyd as a saint. He had been in prison many times including put a gun to a pregnant women's belly during a crime. If you don't want the police to shoot you, don't commit a crime and don't resist when they try to arrest you for those crimes. Pretty simple to do.
That's a very interesting read of the second amendment, which allows for a well regulated militia. These yahoos don't count.
This guy shot people and the cops WALKED BY HIM. But they HAVE to shoot Jacob Blake???
Jacob Blake never shot anyone.
Did that guy fight police? Did he not comply? Did he do anything that would increase the odds that he might get shot?
Jacob Blake did all that.
Now, if you want to argue if he SHOULD have been shot, fine, but the other situation is in no way comparable. And it wasn't because the kid was white, either. He complied. And didn't get shot. That's how it goes, 99.999% of the time.
He had literally just killed two people and definitely had a firearm in his possession.
Again: Did he resist arrest? Did he comply? Did he give the cops any reason to shoot him?
Having potentially committed a crime previously isn't a reason to shoot him. Actively resisting arrest might well be, though.
So....did he do any of these things? Or did he comply?
Are you arguing that resisting arrest is a reason for the police to shoot someone 7 times in the back?
This is my point. You're coming up with justifications for one situation that are different than the other.
The white guy with a gun who just shot people was treated differently than a black guy without a gun who simply walked away from the cops. That is why people are protesting.
Here is the difference...if the guy had gotten to his vehicle pulled out a gun...then shot and killed both of the officers no one that is protesting would care....you wouldn't care.
The fact of the matter is that the police were called on the guy...he resisted arrest...he was tased and it didn't stop him...the police tried to restrain him and that didn't stop him...he had a knife on him walking to the vehicle..and then went in the door of the car before he was shot
At what point do you think that the guy who was shot is at fault here. He escalated the situation several times before he was shot. There are at least 4 to 5 points in the situation where he could of stopped and it would of prevented everything that happened...but he didn't.
At some point you need to be able to look at the situation objectively and say that this didn't need to happen and it wasn't the cops fault. Until you have the ability to do that then you are going to think that every situation like this is the cop's fault...but it's not. Quite honestly no amount of debate with you is going to change that.
The cops pulled out their guns and shot him seven times. He did nothing that came anywhere close to warranting that kind of response
Are you telling me that two cops weren't capable of tackling him and restraining him? Or, if he resists arrest and you can't subdue him and he flees, put out a warrant for his arrest.
This woman resisted arrest every bit as much as Blake did and didn't get shot seven times:
The cops tried to restrain him and were unable to
The cops tased him and it didn't stop him
He was already armed with a knife and going back to his car for who knows what
He already had a warrant out for his arrest, and the cops were going to arrest him but he had other ideas
So what were the cops suppose to do here exactly?
Let him go and chase him? Could of been a high speed chase and with kids in the car could of been very deadly to both the kids and bystanders
Not try to stop him? What happens if he had a gun in the car? Both of the cops would of been shot and possibly killed
Put a warrant out on him and let him know? Your just extending the inevitable confrontation with police that would of happened later on in the day.
Like i said before....if he stopped at any of these points he would still be alive
When the police asked him to stop
After the police tased him
After the police tried to physically restrain him
After the police pulled their guns out
At any point when he was walking to the car before he opened the door.
The most easy solution to this is the simplest...don't be a criminal and have the cops called on you The second solution is to not resist arrest The third solution here is to not fight with the cops The fourth solution here is to not go to your car after pulling out a weapon when the cops are trying to arrest you.
Quite frankly I don't give a damn about whatever video you are linking. Different cops, different people, different location, and a different situation. I also think that the cops showed a lot of restraint. I'd of pulled the trigger the second that the guy pulled out a knife...most of us would of. I give it to the cops for showing as much restraint as they did.
Like i said before...its pretty obvious you would of been ok if the situation hadn't of turned out as well for the cops. No need to argue that
You just spent so many words and so much time to essentially say that you don't actually care about the fact that the police shot this man. I think you're trying to justify this through an intellectual argument.
But You don't actually care. That's fine. You don't have to care. Atrocities happen all over the world and we all numb ourselves to them in one way or another. Just be honest with yourself that this isn't something you actually care about.
You wouldn't let your son be a cop but you'd be proud of him for being a vigilante and carrying a gun underage? I'm confused.
I'm sorry, but why does ANY civilian feel the need or responsibility or capability to go to a massive protest, carry a firearm, and "protect" things? It's total insanity. And 17 year olds aren't known to be the most sensible actors, so there's absolutely some responsibility on the parents here.
Because the government agencies called with protecting stuff are not doing their jobs. The police are either told to stand down or are overwhelmed. Had the Governor of Wisconsin brought in the National Guard after the first night of protests then this doesn't happen. Unfortunately it's going to happen more. People are going to defend their property with their 2nd Amendment rights. If the crap starts happening in my neighborhood, I will be locked, ready, and loaded.
The young man was part of a group of militia who's job was to protect property. I don't see how they can get him for anything but manslaughter and that will be a tough road too. He was in fear of his life. The police are not going to show up, so I cannot blame him for defending himself. If more evidence comes out that puts him in a different light, then maybe they can get the murder charge but with what I have seen, self defense is his right and it will be hard to convict him.
Let's be honest: Militias are gangs.
Nobody goes across state lines with a rifle to protect anythingthey are looking to get into something.
It speaks volumes that we are giving more thought to this kid's motives than those of Jacob Blake. It's actually the entire point.
Your not being honest with your comment. Not all militias are gangs. It's in the Constitution. He wasn't the only one there packing. There were other militia members too. They said they were there to protect property.
Jacob Blake had warrants against him. He did not obey the police officers and paid the price. Oh and he had knife too. They did not shoot him because he was black. They shot him because he was a threat and the officer knew he had warrants against him. And don't try to paint George Floyd as a saint. He had been in prison many times including put a gun to a pregnant women's belly during a crime. If you don't want the police to shoot you, don't commit a crime and don't resist when they try to arrest you for those crimes. Pretty simple to do.
That's a very interesting read of the second amendment, which allows for a well regulated militia. These yahoos don't count.
This guy shot people and the cops WALKED BY HIM. But they HAVE to shoot Jacob Blake???
Jacob Blake never shot anyone.
Did that guy fight police? Did he not comply? Did he do anything that would increase the odds that he might get shot?
Jacob Blake did all that.
Now, if you want to argue if he SHOULD have been shot, fine, but the other situation is in no way comparable. And it wasn't because the kid was white, either. He complied. And didn't get shot. That's how it goes, 99.999% of the time.
He had literally just killed two people and definitely had a firearm in his possession.
Again: Did he resist arrest? Did he comply? Did he give the cops any reason to shoot him?
Having potentially committed a crime previously isn't a reason to shoot him. Actively resisting arrest might well be, though.
So....did he do any of these things? Or did he comply?
Are you arguing that resisting arrest is a reason for the police to shoot someone 7 times in the back?
This is my point. You're coming up with justifications for one situation that are different than the other.
The white guy with a gun who just shot people was treated differently than a black guy without a gun who simply walked away from the cops. That is why people are protesting.
Here is the difference...if the guy had gotten to his vehicle pulled out a gun...then shot and killed both of the officers no one that is protesting would care....you wouldn't care.
The fact of the matter is that the police were called on the guy...he resisted arrest...he was tased and it didn't stop him...the police tried to restrain him and that didn't stop him...he had a knife on him walking to the vehicle..and then went in the door of the car before he was shot
At what point do you think that the guy who was shot is at fault here. He escalated the situation several times before he was shot. There are at least 4 to 5 points in the situation where he could of stopped and it would of prevented everything that happened...but he didn't.
At some point you need to be able to look at the situation objectively and say that this didn't need to happen and it wasn't the cops fault. Until you have the ability to do that then you are going to think that every situation like this is the cop's fault...but it's not. Quite honestly no amount of debate with you is going to change that.
The cops pulled out their guns and shot him seven times. He did nothing that came anywhere close to warranting that kind of response
Are you telling me that two cops weren't capable of tackling him and restraining him? Or, if he resists arrest and you can't subdue him and he flees, put out a warrant for his arrest.
This woman resisted arrest every bit as much as Blake did and didn't get shot seven times:
The cops tried to restrain him and were unable to
The cops tased him and it didn't stop him
He was already armed with a knife and going back to his car for who knows what
He already had a warrant out for his arrest, and the cops were going to arrest him but he had other ideas
So what were the cops suppose to do here exactly?
Let him go and chase him? Could of been a high speed chase and with kids in the car could of been very deadly to both the kids and bystanders
Not try to stop him? What happens if he had a gun in the car? Both of the cops would of been shot and possibly killed
Put a warrant out on him and let him know? Your just extending the inevitable confrontation with police that would of happened later on in the day.
Like i said before....if he stopped at any of these points he would still be alive
When the police asked him to stop
After the police tased him
After the police tried to physically restrain him
After the police pulled their guns out
At any point when he was walking to the car before he opened the door.
The most easy solution to this is the simplest...don't be a criminal and have the cops called on you The second solution is to not resist arrest The third solution here is to not fight with the cops The fourth solution here is to not go to your car after pulling out a weapon when the cops are trying to arrest you.
Quite frankly I don't give a damn about whatever video you are linking. Different cops, different people, different location, and a different situation. I also think that the cops showed a lot of restraint. I'd of pulled the trigger the second that the guy pulled out a knife...most of us would of. I give it to the cops for showing as much restraint as they did.
Like i said before...its pretty obvious you would of been ok if the situation hadn't of turned out as well for the cops. No need to argue that
You just spent so many words and so much time to essentially say that you don't actually care about the fact that the police shot this man. I think you're trying to justify this through an intellectual argument.
But You don't actually care. That's fine. You don't have to care. Atrocities happen all over the world and we all numb ourselves to them in one way or another. Just be honest with yourself that this isn't something you actually care about.
I don't care. I don't think you really do either. I think you're just trying to present a narrative. That's why you're having to lie about events that happened because you're more invested in the narrative than the actual events.
Like i said before....if he stopped at any of these points he would still be alive
When the police asked him to stop
After the police tased him
After the police tried to physically restrain him
After the police pulled their guns out
At any point when he was walking to the car before he opened the door.
The most easy solution to this is the simplest...don't be a criminal and have the cops called on you The second solution is to not resist arrest The third solution here is to not fight with the cops The fourth solution here is to not go to your car after pulling out a weapon when the cops are trying to arrest you.
Quite frankly I don't give a damn about whatever video you are linking. Different cops, different people, different location, and a different situation. I also think that the cops showed a lot of restraint. I'd of pulled the trigger the second that the guy pulled out a knife...most of us would of. I give it to the cops for showing as much restraint as they did.
Like i said before...its pretty obvious you would of been ok if the situation hadn't of turned out as well for the cops. No need to argue that
One slight correction. Blake has not died. He is in serious condition and right now paralyzed from the waist down.
I just don't get why any of these reforms are so controversial, or why Republicans are the primary opposition. Cops are agents of the state. If you're concerned with government power and overreach, you should be concerned about Police reforms. They are the enforcement arm of government power. And if "99.9%" of officers are great then these changes are only going to affect the remainder who have no business having a badge and gun
Republicans aren't against reforms , heck that is what Tim Scott has been working on for years with opportunity zones and other reforms . What Republicans don't like is cities burning to the ground and looted under what often is a false racial narrative perpetuated by the media . You remember the Michael Brown hoax with hands up don't shoot that was complete lies, even the Obama DOJ came to that conclusion . Stop with the race baiting at every turn and many more people will come to your side .
Police killings caught on video are the most severe, visible, visceral bad outcome for black Americans in criminal justice so they're going to be a lightning rod. That's not surprising.
Make no mistake, there's no "false narrative" about outcomes for black Americans in policing and criminal justice in this country.
Go look at rates of stops, searches, charges, convictions, false convictions, paroles, or whatever you want to look at, and make the case that bias in the system is a "false narrative."
THAT is what black America is furious about.
So you've got zero response on the 2 weeks of riots over the phony Michael Brown case ? That area of St Louis is destroyed for generations . Woooopss . Kinda like Duke Lacrosse . Raise hell .Scream racism . Ignore facts and don't wait for evidence . Then once it turns out your wrong just ignore it and move on to to the next one ...
I just don't get why any of these reforms are so controversial, or why Republicans are the primary opposition. Cops are agents of the state. If you're concerned with government power and overreach, you should be concerned about Police reforms. They are the enforcement arm of government power. And if "99.9%" of officers are great then these changes are only going to affect the remainder who have no business having a badge and gun
Republicans aren't against reforms , heck that is what Tim Scott has been working on for years with opportunity zones and other reforms . What Republicans don't like is cities burning to the ground and looted under what often is a false racial narrative perpetuated by the media . You remember the Michael Brown hoax with hands up don't shoot that was complete lies, even the Obama DOJ came to that conclusion . Stop with the race baiting at every turn and many more people will come to your side .
Police killings caught on video are the most severe, visible, visceral bad outcome for black Americans in criminal justice so they're going to be a lightning rod. That's not surprising.
Make no mistake, there's no "false narrative" about outcomes for black Americans in policing and criminal justice in this country.
Go look at rates of stops, searches, charges, convictions, false convictions, paroles, or whatever you want to look at, and make the case that bias in the system is a "false narrative."
THAT is what black America is furious about.
Yeah, I'm not sure why anyone would even try to argue against your points anymore. I get people being angry about the reactionary violence in the streets. Its scary to all of us. But listen to some of these black adults in positions of power / influence who have been stopped, frisked, roughed up, questioned, etc for doing nothing. Listen to a person who is black and that you respect talk about how he has to tell his sons how to be careful if ever stopped by a cop, even if they did nothing wrong. As a dad, as a citizen, as a "Christian", as a _____, how do those things not make any of us saddened and angry?
We can all bicker about the men who have been caught in these videos dying at the hands of cops....some were bad guys. Few were saints. Many of them acted out in a way that absolutely put them in position to get hurt. But....if you've grown up as a lesser citizen --- and you've seen this forever....and then you see TV images of cops shooting a black man while other cops walk by a white crazed teen with a rifle....why would you not be angry?
I just don't get why any of these reforms are so controversial, or why Republicans are the primary opposition. Cops are agents of the state. If you're concerned with government power and overreach, you should be concerned about Police reforms. They are the enforcement arm of government power. And if "99.9%" of officers are great then these changes are only going to affect the remainder who have no business having a badge and gun
Republicans aren't against reforms , heck that is what Tim Scott has been working on for years with opportunity zones and other reforms . What Republicans don't like is cities burning to the ground and looted under what often is a false racial narrative perpetuated by the media . You remember the Michael Brown hoax with hands up don't shoot that was complete lies, even the Obama DOJ came to that conclusion . Stop with the race baiting at every turn and many more people will come to your side .
Police killings caught on video are the most severe, visible, visceral bad outcome for black Americans in criminal justice so they're going to be a lightning rod. That's not surprising.
Make no mistake, there's no "false narrative" about outcomes for black Americans in policing and criminal justice in this country.
Go look at rates of stops, searches, charges, convictions, false convictions, paroles, or whatever you want to look at, and make the case that bias in the system is a "false narrative."
THAT is what black America is furious about.
Yeah, I'm not sure why anyone would even try to argue against your points anymore. I get people being angry about the reactionary violence in the streets. Its scary to all of us. But listen to some of these black adults in positions of power / influence who have been stopped, frisked, roughed up, questioned, etc for doing nothing. Listen to a person who is black and that you respect talk about how he has to tell his sons how to be careful if ever stopped by a cop, even if they did nothing wrong. As a dad, as a citizen, as a "Christian", as a _____, how do those things not make any of us saddened and angry?
We can all bicker about the men who have been caught in these videos dying at the hands of cops....some were bad guys. Few were saints. Many of them acted out in a way that absolutely put them in position to get hurt. But....if you've grown up as a lesser citizen --- and you've seen this forever....and then you see TV images of cops shooting a black man while other cops walk by a white crazed teen with a rifle....why would you not be angry?
I just don't get why any of these reforms are so controversial, or why Republicans are the primary opposition. Cops are agents of the state. If you're concerned with government power and overreach, you should be concerned about Police reforms. They are the enforcement arm of government power. And if "99.9%" of officers are great then these changes are only going to affect the remainder who have no business having a badge and gun
Republicans aren't against reforms , heck that is what Tim Scott has been working on for years with opportunity zones and other reforms . What Republicans don't like is cities burning to the ground and looted under what often is a false racial narrative perpetuated by the media . You remember the Michael Brown hoax with hands up don't shoot that was complete lies, even the Obama DOJ came to that conclusion . Stop with the race baiting at every turn and many more people will come to your side .
Police killings caught on video are the most severe, visible, visceral bad outcome for black Americans in criminal justice so they're going to be a lightning rod. That's not surprising.
Make no mistake, there's no "false narrative" about outcomes for black Americans in policing and criminal justice in this country.
Go look at rates of stops, searches, charges, convictions, false convictions, paroles, or whatever you want to look at, and make the case that bias in the system is a "false narrative."
THAT is what black America is furious about.
So you've got zero response on the 2 weeks of riots over the phony Michael Brown case ? That area of St Louis is destroyed for generations . Woooopss . Kinda like Duke Lacrosse . Raise hell .Scream racism . Ignore facts and don't wait for evidence . Then once it turns out your wrong just ignore it and move on to to the next one ...
Have you ever spent time to read about the many, many issues in the Fegeson PD? That was a community primed for one big event to set everyone off. A lot of people there still don't believe the actual story of what happened that day because they already had years of greivences they were angry about.
I just don't get why any of these reforms are so controversial, or why Republicans are the primary opposition. Cops are agents of the state. If you're concerned with government power and overreach, you should be concerned about Police reforms. They are the enforcement arm of government power. And if "99.9%" of officers are great then these changes are only going to affect the remainder who have no business having a badge and gun
It's been laid bare over the last couple of decades that Republicans aren't actually concerned with government power or overreach, they just want government power and overreach that benefits them.
And both Dems and Pubs like to tax and spend, they just like to spend on different stuff.
Pubs like to spend big on the military and prisons and drug law enforcement and capital punishment. These foci and expenditures illustrate what their view of "justice" is.
Viewed through that lens, it's easy to see why we are where we are.
These points are a big reason why I stopped considering myself a Republican in my early 20s. A lot of Libertarians are kooks but at least they're intellectually consistent
Police killings caught on video are the most severe, visible, visceral bad outcome for black Americans in criminal justice so they're going to be a lightning rod. That's not surprising.
Make no mistake, there's no "false narrative" about outcomes for black Americans in policing and criminal justice in this country.
Go look at rates of stops, searches, charges, convictions, false convictions, paroles, or whatever you want to look at, and make the case that bias in the system is a "false narrative."
THAT is what black America is furious about.
So you've got zero response on the 2 weeks of riots over the phony Michael Brown case ? That area of St Louis is destroyed for generations . Woooopss . Kinda like Duke Lacrosse . Raise hell .Scream racism . Ignore facts and don't wait for evidence . Then once it turns out your wrong just ignore it and move on to to the next one ...
I don't need a response to the Michael Brown or Duke lacrosse cases. Justice won out. The Michael Brown officer was never charged with a crime given the lack of evidence to support charges. Your boy Roy Cooper dropped all charges against the three Duke lacrosse players, publicly stated they got railroaded, and publicly stated Mike Nifong, who was later disbarred, had gone rogue.
Nothing about the Michael Brown or Duke lacrosse case invalidates the mountain of evidence that we need police and criminal justice reform in this country.
Conversely, there are many cases every year where police are not held accountable due to the strength of police unions or qualified immunity.
Your beef is with the mainstream/social media and the rush to judgment in the court of public opinion, not with the actual substance of black Americans' treatment in criminal justice.
I always hear about how law enforcement should look to descalate these situations, but I hardly ever hear the same for those being arrested.
Why isn't resisting arrest strongly discouraged and condemned by racial justice proponents, politicians and the media?
Who benefits from resisting arrest?
The person being arrested? Law enforcement? Innocent bystanders?
It seems like a no win situation for everyone involved. I just feel like it should be included in the conversation when discussing these situations.
Because police are supposed to be trained professionals while perps are... criminals. You tend to hold people in positions of authority to a higher standard.
I'm all for more police, better funded police, better trained police, etc. Many have a really hard job. But I want all that to come with liability for their conduct.
But they are human and they have split seconds to make life and death decisions. There are some bad police, but 99.9% I believe are trying to do the right thing. They want to do their job then hopefully come home at night to their family. And you said it perfectly above. "Perps are criminals" and many times they lose their lives during the commission of crimes. We hold the police officers accountable for their actions, but the actions of the criminals get forgotten.
1st, No we don't hold them accountable for their actions. That's pretty much the point of all these pages. For the sake of argument, I'll accept your 99.9% number here. Why is it so damn difficult to punish the 0.1%? Why does the police union block them from being fired? Why are they immune from suits in civil court 99% of the time, even if the judge believes the officer committed misconduct? Why can the rare cop who actually is fired, move a short ways away and get the same job again?
As for the criminal...they are dead. Why should we keep focusing on that. In almost all cases, they weren't committing crimes worthy of the death penalty
That is the justice system then if they are committing misconduct and not being convicted. And yes those crimes did not deserve the death penalty, so don't resist and don't commit crimes and have warrants out for your arrest. It's really pretty simple.
George Floyd complied with the police and was executed in broad daylight.
So you might forgive black people for not exactly trusting that following the rules will keep them safe.
Come on man, Donald Trump has a better grip on the truth then you do here.
What did I say that's incorrect? Did Floyd resist arrest?
He was dragged out of the car and executed in broad daylight. Can you disprove that?
Police killings caught on video are the most severe, visible, visceral bad outcome for black Americans in criminal justice so they're going to be a lightning rod. That's not surprising.
Make no mistake, there's no "false narrative" about outcomes for black Americans in policing and criminal justice in this country.
Go look at rates of stops, searches, charges, convictions, false convictions, paroles, or whatever you want to look at, and make the case that bias in the system is a "false narrative."
THAT is what black America is furious about.
Yeah, I'm not sure why anyone would even try to argue against your points anymore. I get people being angry about the reactionary violence in the streets. Its scary to all of us. But listen to some of these black adults in positions of power / influence who have been stopped, frisked, roughed up, questioned, etc for doing nothing. Listen to a person who is black and that you respect talk about how he has to tell his sons how to be careful if ever stopped by a cop, even if they did nothing wrong. As a dad, as a citizen, as a "Christian", as a _____, how do those things not make any of us saddened and angry?
We can all bicker about the men who have been caught in these videos dying at the hands of cops....some were bad guys. Few were saints. Many of them acted out in a way that absolutely put them in position to get hurt. But....if you've grown up as a lesser citizen --- and you've seen this forever....and then you see TV images of cops shooting a black man while other cops walk by a white crazed teen with a rifle....why would you not be angry?
100%.
My business/contract attorney has become a close friend over the years. We started our businesses around the same time back in 2010 and have worked together ever since. He's a JD/MBA and is the most savvy, practical attorney I've ever met. I trust his legal and business judgment implicitly because he's such a clear, rational thinker.
He's also a black guy, early 40's, with a son about my son's age (13/14). I get chills hearing him talk about how conflicted he is about how to advise his son about whether to comply or try to flee the police.
The risk of fleeing is obvious. So when exceptionally bright, educated, clear-thinking, professional, responsible black parents contemplate telling their kid to run from the cops because they distrust so significantly what may happen if their kid lands in police custody, what does that tell you?
I just don't get why any of these reforms are so controversial, or why Republicans are the primary opposition. Cops are agents of the state. If you're concerned with government power and overreach, you should be concerned about Police reforms. They are the enforcement arm of government power. And if "99.9%" of officers are great then these changes are only going to affect the remainder who have no business having a badge and gun
It's been laid bare over the last couple of decades that Republicans aren't actually concerned with government power or overreach, they just want government power and overreach that benefits them.
And both Dems and Pubs like to tax and spend, they just like to spend on different stuff.
Pubs like to spend big on the military and prisons and drug law enforcement and capital punishment. These foci and expenditures illustrate what their view of "justice" is.
Viewed through that lens, it's easy to see why we are where we are.
These points are a big reason why I stopped considering myself a Republican in my early 20s. A lot of Libertarians are kooks but at least they're intellectually consistent
You stopped being a Republican because republicans liked to spend money on military, prisons, law enforcement, and capital punishment (LOL, seriously Republicans LIKE to spend money on capital punishment???? It is staggering how much the leftists lie on this board)? I'm not sure you were ever a republican if you were offended by money spent on these things.
I'd love to hear civilized's take on what Democrats LIKE to spend their money on and how that's why we are where we are.
Yes, I grew up a Republican with Republican parents. Econ was my 2nd major at State and I spent a lot of time on Austrian economics. You can call me a "leftist" but frankly it's laughable.
And yes I left the Republican party largely due to the massive hypocrasy I saw within the party, especially when it comes to government spending. I'm one of the lonely few who actually cares deeply about the national debt. And now we have Trump who is as "big government" as they come
You wouldn't let your son be a cop but you'd be proud of him for being a vigilante and carrying a gun underage? I'm confused.
I'm sorry, but why does ANY civilian feel the need or responsibility or capability to go to a massive protest, carry a firearm, and "protect" things? It's total insanity. And 17 year olds aren't known to be the most sensible actors, so there's absolutely some responsibility on the parents here.
Because the government agencies called with protecting stuff are not doing their jobs. The police are either told to stand down or are overwhelmed. Had the Governor of Wisconsin brought in the National Guard after the first night of protests then this doesn't happen. Unfortunately it's going to happen more. People are going to defend their property with their 2nd Amendment rights. If the crap starts happening in my neighborhood, I will be locked, ready, and loaded.
The young man was part of a group of militia who's job was to protect property. I don't see how they can get him for anything but manslaughter and that will be a tough road too. He was in fear of his life. The police are not going to show up, so I cannot blame him for defending himself. If more evidence comes out that puts him in a different light, then maybe they can get the murder charge but with what I have seen, self defense is his right and it will be hard to convict him.
Let's be honest: Militias are gangs.
Nobody goes across state lines with a rifle to protect anythingthey are looking to get into something.
It speaks volumes that we are giving more thought to this kid's motives than those of Jacob Blake. It's actually the entire point.
I just don't get why any of these reforms are so controversial, or why Republicans are the primary opposition. Cops are agents of the state. If you're concerned with government power and overreach, you should be concerned about Police reforms. They are the enforcement arm of government power. And if "99.9%" of officers are great then these changes are only going to affect the remainder who have no business having a badge and gun
It's been laid bare over the last couple of decades that Republicans aren't actually concerned with government power or overreach, they just want government power and overreach that benefits them.
And both Dems and Pubs like to tax and spend, they just like to spend on different stuff.
Pubs like to spend big on the military and prisons and drug law enforcement and capital punishment. These foci and expenditures illustrate what their view of "justice" is.
Viewed through that lens, it's easy to see why we are where we are.
These points are a big reason why I stopped considering myself a Republican in my early 20s. A lot of Libertarians are kooks but at least they're intellectually consistent
You stopped being a Republican because republicans liked to spend money on military, prisons, law enforcement, and capital punishment (LOL, seriously Republicans LIKE to spend money on capital punishment???? It is staggering how much the leftists lie on this board)? I'm not sure you were ever a republican if you were offended by money spent on these things.
I'd love to hear civilized's take on what Democrats LIKE to spend their money on and how that's why we are where we are.
Yes, I grew up a Republican with Republican parents. Econ was my 2nd major at State and I spent a lot of time on Austrian economics. You can call me a "leftist" but frankly it's laughable.
And yes I left the Republican party largely due to the massive hypocrasy I saw within the party, especially when it comes to government spending. I'm one of the lonely few who actually cares deeply about the national debt. And now we have Trump who is as "big government" as they come
You wouldn't let your son be a cop but you'd be proud of him for being a vigilante and carrying a gun underage? I'm confused.
I'm sorry, but why does ANY civilian feel the need or responsibility or capability to go to a massive protest, carry a firearm, and "protect" things? It's total insanity. And 17 year olds aren't known to be the most sensible actors, so there's absolutely some responsibility on the parents here.
Because the government agencies called with protecting stuff are not doing their jobs. The police are either told to stand down or are overwhelmed. Had the Governor of Wisconsin brought in the National Guard after the first night of protests then this doesn't happen. Unfortunately it's going to happen more. People are going to defend their property with their 2nd Amendment rights. If the crap starts happening in my neighborhood, I will be locked, ready, and loaded.
The young man was part of a group of militia who's job was to protect property. I don't see how they can get him for anything but manslaughter and that will be a tough road too. He was in fear of his life. The police are not going to show up, so I cannot blame him for defending himself. If more evidence comes out that puts him in a different light, then maybe they can get the murder charge but with what I have seen, self defense is his right and it will be hard to convict him.
Let's be honest: Militias are gangs.
Nobody goes across state lines with a rifle to protect anythingthey are looking to get into something.
It speaks volumes that we are giving more thought to this kid's motives than those of Jacob Blake. It's actually the entire point.
Your not being honest with your comment. Not all militias are gangs. It's in the Constitution. He wasn't the only one there packing. There were other militia members too. They said they were there to protect property.
Jacob Blake had warrants against him. He did not obey the police officers and paid the price. Oh and he had knife too. They did not shoot him because he was black. They shot him because he was a threat and the officer knew he had warrants against him. And don't try to paint George Floyd as a saint. He had been in prison many times including put a gun to a pregnant women's belly during a crime. If you don't want the police to shoot you, don't commit a crime and don't resist when they try to arrest you for those crimes. Pretty simple to do.
That's a very interesting read of the second amendment, which allows for a well regulated militia. These yahoos don't count.
This guy shot people and the cops WALKED BY HIM. But they HAVE to shoot Jacob Blake???
Jacob Blake never shot anyone.
Did that guy fight police? Did he not comply? Did he do anything that would increase the odds that he might get shot?
Jacob Blake did all that.
Now, if you want to argue if he SHOULD have been shot, fine, but the other situation is in no way comparable. And it wasn't because the kid was white, either. He complied. And didn't get shot. That's how it goes, 99.999% of the time.
He had literally just killed two people and definitely had a firearm in his possession.
They did not know what he he had done. When all this happened the cops were not around. There were hundreds of people on those streets.
You wouldn't let your son be a cop but you'd be proud of him for being a vigilante and carrying a gun underage? I'm confused.
I'm sorry, but why does ANY civilian feel the need or responsibility or capability to go to a massive protest, carry a firearm, and "protect" things? It's total insanity. And 17 year olds aren't known to be the most sensible actors, so there's absolutely some responsibility on the parents here.
Because the government agencies called with protecting stuff are not doing their jobs. The police are either told to stand down or are overwhelmed. Had the Governor of Wisconsin brought in the National Guard after the first night of protests then this doesn't happen. Unfortunately it's going to happen more. People are going to defend their property with their 2nd Amendment rights. If the crap starts happening in my neighborhood, I will be locked, ready, and loaded.
The young man was part of a group of militia who's job was to protect property. I don't see how they can get him for anything but manslaughter and that will be a tough road too. He was in fear of his life. The police are not going to show up, so I cannot blame him for defending himself. If more evidence comes out that puts him in a different light, then maybe they can get the murder charge but with what I have seen, self defense is his right and it will be hard to convict him.
Let's be honest: Militias are gangs.
Nobody goes across state lines with a rifle to protect anythingthey are looking to get into something.
It speaks volumes that we are giving more thought to this kid's motives than those of Jacob Blake. It's actually the entire point.
Your not being honest with your comment. Not all militias are gangs. It's in the Constitution. He wasn't the only one there packing. There were other militia members too. They said they were there to protect property.
Jacob Blake had warrants against him. He did not obey the police officers and paid the price. Oh and he had knife too. They did not shoot him because he was black. They shot him because he was a threat and the officer knew he had warrants against him. And don't try to paint George Floyd as a saint. He had been in prison many times including put a gun to a pregnant women's belly during a crime. If you don't want the police to shoot you, don't commit a crime and don't resist when they try to arrest you for those crimes. Pretty simple to do.
That's a very interesting read of the second amendment, which allows for a well regulated militia. These yahoos don't count.
This guy shot people and the cops WALKED BY HIM. But they HAVE to shoot Jacob Blake???
Jacob Blake never shot anyone.
Did that guy fight police? Did he not comply? Did he do anything that would increase the odds that he might get shot?
Jacob Blake did all that.
Now, if you want to argue if he SHOULD have been shot, fine, but the other situation is in no way comparable. And it wasn't because the kid was white, either. He complied. And didn't get shot. That's how it goes, 99.999% of the time.
He had literally just killed two people and definitely had a firearm in his possession.
They did not know what he he had done. When all this happened the cops were not around. There were hundreds of people on those streets.
Per reports, the crowd was shouting that he just shot two people.
You wouldn't let your son be a cop but you'd be proud of him for being a vigilante and carrying a gun underage? I'm confused.
I'm sorry, but why does ANY civilian feel the need or responsibility or capability to go to a massive protest, carry a firearm, and "protect" things? It's total insanity. And 17 year olds aren't known to be the most sensible actors, so there's absolutely some responsibility on the parents here.
Because the government agencies called with protecting stuff are not doing their jobs. The police are either told to stand down or are overwhelmed. Had the Governor of Wisconsin brought in the National Guard after the first night of protests then this doesn't happen. Unfortunately it's going to happen more. People are going to defend their property with their 2nd Amendment rights. If the crap starts happening in my neighborhood, I will be locked, ready, and loaded.
The young man was part of a group of militia who's job was to protect property. I don't see how they can get him for anything but manslaughter and that will be a tough road too. He was in fear of his life. The police are not going to show up, so I cannot blame him for defending himself. If more evidence comes out that puts him in a different light, then maybe they can get the murder charge but with what I have seen, self defense is his right and it will be hard to convict him.
Let's be honest: Militias are gangs.
Nobody goes across state lines with a rifle to protect anythingthey are looking to get into something.
It speaks volumes that we are giving more thought to this kid's motives than those of Jacob Blake. It's actually the entire point.
Cool.
He's still a murderer and his parents shat the bed in allowing him to go.
Because the government agencies called with protecting stuff are not doing their jobs. The police are either told to stand down or are overwhelmed. Had the Governor of Wisconsin brought in the National Guard after the first night of protests then this doesn't happen. Unfortunately it's going to happen more. People are going to defend their property with their 2nd Amendment rights. If the crap starts happening in my neighborhood, I will be locked, ready, and loaded.
The young man was part of a group of militia who's job was to protect property. I don't see how they can get him for anything but manslaughter and that will be a tough road too. He was in fear of his life. The police are not going to show up, so I cannot blame him for defending himself. If more evidence comes out that puts him in a different light, then maybe they can get the murder charge but with what I have seen, self defense is his right and it will be hard to convict him.
Does this kid have parents?
What parent allows their son to go "protect stuff" and potentially get killed or shoot and kill somebody? It's stuff. What, he's proving a point? That the "rioters haven't won?" Who cares about stuff, or proving a point when your boy is walking out the door and maybe not coming back?
I don't care that the police are allegedly not doing their jobs. It's property. Inanimate **** that doesn't matter when compared to multiple lives including your kid's. It's why you have insurance. It's not worth someone maybe losing a life over.
If my 17 year old was grabbing his gun and trying to go help "protect stuff" from rioters he'd have to shoot me first to get out the door.
Apparently this kid was being groomed to be a cop.
I just don't get why any of these reforms are so controversial, or why Republicans are the primary opposition. Cops are agents of the state. If you're concerned with government power and overreach, you should be concerned about Police reforms. They are the enforcement arm of government power. And if "99.9%" of officers are great then these changes are only going to affect the remainder who have no business having a badge and gun
It's been laid bare over the last couple of decades that Republicans aren't actually concerned with government power or overreach, they just want government power and overreach that benefits them.
And both Dems and Pubs like to tax and spend, they just like to spend on different stuff.
Pubs like to spend big on the military and prisons and drug law enforcement and capital punishment. These foci and expenditures illustrate what their view of "justice" is.
Viewed through that lens, it's easy to see why we are where we are.
These points are a big reason why I stopped considering myself a Republican in my early 20s. A lot of Libertarians are kooks but at least they're intellectually consistent
You stopped being a Republican because republicans liked to spend money on military, prisons, law enforcement, and capital punishment (LOL, seriously Republicans LIKE to spend money on capital punishment???? It is staggering how much the leftists lie on this board)? I'm not sure you were ever a republican if you were offended by money spent on these things.
I'd love to hear civilized's take on what Democrats LIKE to spend their money on and how that's why we are where we are.
Yes, I grew up a Republican with Republican parents. Econ was my 2nd major at State and I spent a lot of time on Austrian economics. You can call me a "leftist" but frankly it's laughable.
And yes I left the Republican party largely due to the massive hypocrasy I saw within the party, especially when it comes to government spending. I'm one of the lonely few who actually cares deeply about the national debt. And now we have Trump who is as "big government" as they come
Man it's refreshing to see someone who actually sticks to principles.
I disagree with but understand the core conservative positions around economics, fiscal policy, etc. I think that disagreement between sides has led to healthy debate that has moved our country forward in a measured fashion.
You wouldn't let your son be a cop but you'd be proud of him for being a vigilante and carrying a gun underage? I'm confused.
I'm sorry, but why does ANY civilian feel the need or responsibility or capability to go to a massive protest, carry a firearm, and "protect" things? It's total insanity. And 17 year olds aren't known to be the most sensible actors, so there's absolutely some responsibility on the parents here.
Because the government agencies called with protecting stuff are not doing their jobs. The police are either told to stand down or are overwhelmed. Had the Governor of Wisconsin brought in the National Guard after the first night of protests then this doesn't happen. Unfortunately it's going to happen more. People are going to defend their property with their 2nd Amendment rights. If the crap starts happening in my neighborhood, I will be locked, ready, and loaded.
The young man was part of a group of militia who's job was to protect property. I don't see how they can get him for anything but manslaughter and that will be a tough road too. He was in fear of his life. The police are not going to show up, so I cannot blame him for defending himself. If more evidence comes out that puts him in a different light, then maybe they can get the murder charge but with what I have seen, self defense is his right and it will be hard to convict him.
Let's be honest: Militias are gangs.
Nobody goes across state lines with a rifle to protect anythingthey are looking to get into something.
It speaks volumes that we are giving more thought to this kid's motives than those of Jacob Blake. It's actually the entire point.
Your not being honest with your comment. Not all militias are gangs. It's in the Constitution. He wasn't the only one there packing. There were other militia members too. They said they were there to protect property.
Jacob Blake had warrants against him. He did not obey the police officers and paid the price. Oh and he had knife too. They did not shoot him because he was black. They shot him because he was a threat and the officer knew he had warrants against him. And don't try to paint George Floyd as a saint. He had been in prison many times including put a gun to a pregnant women's belly during a crime. If you don't want the police to shoot you, don't commit a crime and don't resist when they try to arrest you for those crimes. Pretty simple to do.
That's a very interesting read of the second amendment, which allows for a well regulated militia. These yahoos don't count.
This guy shot people and the cops WALKED BY HIM. But they HAVE to shoot Jacob Blake???
Jacob Blake never shot anyone.
Did that guy fight police? Did he not comply? Did he do anything that would increase the odds that he might get shot?
Jacob Blake did all that.
Now, if you want to argue if he SHOULD have been shot, fine, but the other situation is in no way comparable. And it wasn't because the kid was white, either. He complied. And didn't get shot. That's how it goes, 99.999% of the time.
He had literally just killed two people and definitely had a firearm in his possession.
Again: Did he resist arrest? Did he comply? Did he give the cops any reason to shoot him?
Having potentially committed a crime previously isn't a reason to shoot him. Actively resisting arrest might well be, though.
So....did he do any of these things? Or did he comply?
Are you arguing that resisting arrest is a reason for the police to shoot someone 7 times in the back?
This is my point. You're coming up with justifications for one situation that are different than the other.
The white guy with a gun who just shot people was treated differently than a black guy without a gun who simply walked away from the cops. That is why people are protesting.
Here is the difference...if the guy had gotten to his vehicle pulled out a gun...then shot and killed both of the officers no one that is protesting would care....you wouldn't care.
The fact of the matter is that the police were called on the guy...he resisted arrest...he was tased and it didn't stop him...the police tried to restrain him and that didn't stop him...he had a knife on him walking to the vehicle..and then went in the door of the car before he was shot
At what point do you think that the guy who was shot is at fault here. He escalated the situation several times before he was shot. There are at least 4 to 5 points in the situation where he could of stopped and it would of prevented everything that happened...but he didn't.
At some point you need to be able to look at the situation objectively and say that this didn't need to happen and it wasn't the cops fault. Until you have the ability to do that then you are going to think that every situation like this is the cop's fault...but it's not. Quite honestly no amount of debate with you is going to change that.
The cops pulled out their guns and shot him seven times. He did nothing that came anywhere close to warranting that kind of response
Are you telling me that two cops weren't capable of tackling him and restraining him? Or, if he resists arrest and you can't subdue him and he flees, put out a warrant for his arrest.
This woman resisted arrest every bit as much as Blake did and didn't get shot seven times:
The cops tried to restrain him and were unable to
The cops tased him and it didn't stop him
He was already armed with a knife and going back to his car for who knows what
He already had a warrant out for his arrest, and the cops were going to arrest him but he had other ideas
So what were the cops suppose to do here exactly?
Let him go and chase him? Could of been a high speed chase and with kids in the car could of been very deadly to both the kids and bystanders
Not try to stop him? What happens if he had a gun in the car? Both of the cops would of been shot and possibly killed
Put a warrant out on him and let him know? Your just extending the inevitable confrontation with police that would of happened later on in the day.
Like i said before....if he stopped at any of these points he would still be alive
When the police asked him to stop
After the police tased him
After the police tried to physically restrain him
After the police pulled their guns out
At any point when he was walking to the car before he opened the door.
The most easy solution to this is the simplest...don't be a criminal and have the cops called on you The second solution is to not resist arrest The third solution here is to not fight with the cops The fourth solution here is to not go to your car after pulling out a weapon when the cops are trying to arrest you.
Quite frankly I don't give a damn about whatever video you are linking. Different cops, different people, different location, and a different situation. I also think that the cops showed a lot of restraint. I'd of pulled the trigger the second that the guy pulled out a knife...most of us would of. I give it to the cops for showing as much restraint as they did.
Like i said before...its pretty obvious you would of been ok if the situation hadn't of turned out as well for the cops. No need to argue that
You just spent so many words and so much time to essentially say that you don't actually care about the fact that the police shot this man. I think you're trying to justify this through an intellectual argument.
But You don't actually care. That's fine. You don't have to care. Atrocities happen all over the world and we all numb ourselves to them in one way or another. Just be honest with yourself that this isn't something you actually care about.
Watch this video. May give some perspective on what a cop has to deal with.
You wouldn't let your son be a cop but you'd be proud of him for being a vigilante and carrying a gun underage? I'm confused.
I'm sorry, but why does ANY civilian feel the need or responsibility or capability to go to a massive protest, carry a firearm, and "protect" things? It's total insanity. And 17 year olds aren't known to be the most sensible actors, so there's absolutely some responsibility on the parents here.
Because the government agencies called with protecting stuff are not doing their jobs. The police are either told to stand down or are overwhelmed. Had the Governor of Wisconsin brought in the National Guard after the first night of protests then this doesn't happen. Unfortunately it's going to happen more. People are going to defend their property with their 2nd Amendment rights. If the crap starts happening in my neighborhood, I will be locked, ready, and loaded.
The young man was part of a group of militia who's job was to protect property. I don't see how they can get him for anything but manslaughter and that will be a tough road too. He was in fear of his life. The police are not going to show up, so I cannot blame him for defending himself. If more evidence comes out that puts him in a different light, then maybe they can get the murder charge but with what I have seen, self defense is his right and it will be hard to convict him.
Let's be honest: Militias are gangs.
Nobody goes across state lines with a rifle to protect anythingthey are looking to get into something.
It speaks volumes that we are giving more thought to this kid's motives than those of Jacob Blake. It's actually the entire point.
Your not being honest with your comment. Not all militias are gangs. It's in the Constitution. He wasn't the only one there packing. There were other militia members too. They said they were there to protect property.
Jacob Blake had warrants against him. He did not obey the police officers and paid the price. Oh and he had knife too. They did not shoot him because he was black. They shot him because he was a threat and the officer knew he had warrants against him. And don't try to paint George Floyd as a saint. He had been in prison many times including put a gun to a pregnant women's belly during a crime. If you don't want the police to shoot you, don't commit a crime and don't resist when they try to arrest you for those crimes. Pretty simple to do.
That's a very interesting read of the second amendment, which allows for a well regulated militia. These yahoos don't count.
This guy shot people and the cops WALKED BY HIM. But they HAVE to shoot Jacob Blake???
Jacob Blake never shot anyone.
Did that guy fight police? Did he not comply? Did he do anything that would increase the odds that he might get shot?
Jacob Blake did all that.
Now, if you want to argue if he SHOULD have been shot, fine, but the other situation is in no way comparable. And it wasn't because the kid was white, either. He complied. And didn't get shot. That's how it goes, 99.999% of the time.
He had literally just killed two people and definitely had a firearm in his possession.
They did not know what he he had done. When all this happened the cops were not around. There were hundreds of people on those streets.
Per reports, the crowd was shouting that he just shot two people.
Watch the video. When the cops roll past him there is no crowd, just him.
Because the government agencies called with protecting stuff are not doing their jobs. The police are either told to stand down or are overwhelmed. Had the Governor of Wisconsin brought in the National Guard after the first night of protests then this doesn't happen. Unfortunately it's going to happen more. People are going to defend their property with their 2nd Amendment rights. If the crap starts happening in my neighborhood, I will be locked, ready, and loaded.
The young man was part of a group of militia who's job was to protect property. I don't see how they can get him for anything but manslaughter and that will be a tough road too. He was in fear of his life. The police are not going to show up, so I cannot blame him for defending himself. If more evidence comes out that puts him in a different light, then maybe they can get the murder charge but with what I have seen, self defense is his right and it will be hard to convict him.
Does this kid have parents?
What parent allows their son to go "protect stuff" and potentially get killed or shoot and kill somebody? It's stuff. What, he's proving a point? That the "rioters haven't won?" Who cares about stuff, or proving a point when your boy is walking out the door and maybe not coming back?
I don't care that the police are allegedly not doing their jobs. It's property. Inanimate **** that doesn't matter when compared to multiple lives including your kid's. It's why you have insurance. It's not worth someone maybe losing a life over.
If my 17 year old was grabbing his gun and trying to go help "protect stuff" from rioters he'd have to shoot me first to get out the door.
Apparently this kid was being groomed to be a cop.
You wouldn't let your son be a cop but you'd be proud of him for being a vigilante and carrying a gun underage? I'm confused.
I'm sorry, but why does ANY civilian feel the need or responsibility or capability to go to a massive protest, carry a firearm, and "protect" things? It's total insanity. And 17 year olds aren't known to be the most sensible actors, so there's absolutely some responsibility on the parents here.
Because the government agencies called with protecting stuff are not doing their jobs. The police are either told to stand down or are overwhelmed. Had the Governor of Wisconsin brought in the National Guard after the first night of protests then this doesn't happen. Unfortunately it's going to happen more. People are going to defend their property with their 2nd Amendment rights. If the crap starts happening in my neighborhood, I will be locked, ready, and loaded.
The young man was part of a group of militia who's job was to protect property. I don't see how they can get him for anything but manslaughter and that will be a tough road too. He was in fear of his life. The police are not going to show up, so I cannot blame him for defending himself. If more evidence comes out that puts him in a different light, then maybe they can get the murder charge but with what I have seen, self defense is his right and it will be hard to convict him.
Let's be honest: Militias are gangs.
Nobody goes across state lines with a rifle to protect anythingthey are looking to get into something.
It speaks volumes that we are giving more thought to this kid's motives than those of Jacob Blake. It's actually the entire point.
Your not being honest with your comment. Not all militias are gangs. It's in the Constitution. He wasn't the only one there packing. There were other militia members too. They said they were there to protect property.
Jacob Blake had warrants against him. He did not obey the police officers and paid the price. Oh and he had knife too. They did not shoot him because he was black. They shot him because he was a threat and the officer knew he had warrants against him. And don't try to paint George Floyd as a saint. He had been in prison many times including put a gun to a pregnant women's belly during a crime. If you don't want the police to shoot you, don't commit a crime and don't resist when they try to arrest you for those crimes. Pretty simple to do.
That's a very interesting read of the second amendment, which allows for a well regulated militia. These yahoos don't count.
This guy shot people and the cops WALKED BY HIM. But they HAVE to shoot Jacob Blake???
Jacob Blake never shot anyone.
Did that guy fight police? Did he not comply? Did he do anything that would increase the odds that he might get shot?
Jacob Blake did all that.
Now, if you want to argue if he SHOULD have been shot, fine, but the other situation is in no way comparable. And it wasn't because the kid was white, either. He complied. And didn't get shot. That's how it goes, 99.999% of the time.
He had literally just killed two people and definitely had a firearm in his possession.
Again: Did he resist arrest? Did he comply? Did he give the cops any reason to shoot him?
Having potentially committed a crime previously isn't a reason to shoot him. Actively resisting arrest might well be, though.
So....did he do any of these things? Or did he comply?
Are you arguing that resisting arrest is a reason for the police to shoot someone 7 times in the back?
This is my point. You're coming up with justifications for one situation that are different than the other.
The white guy with a gun who just shot people was treated differently than a black guy without a gun who simply walked away from the cops. That is why people are protesting.
Here is the difference...if the guy had gotten to his vehicle pulled out a gun...then shot and killed both of the officers no one that is protesting would care....you wouldn't care.
The fact of the matter is that the police were called on the guy...he resisted arrest...he was tased and it didn't stop him...the police tried to restrain him and that didn't stop him...he had a knife on him walking to the vehicle..and then went in the door of the car before he was shot
At what point do you think that the guy who was shot is at fault here. He escalated the situation several times before he was shot. There are at least 4 to 5 points in the situation where he could of stopped and it would of prevented everything that happened...but he didn't.
At some point you need to be able to look at the situation objectively and say that this didn't need to happen and it wasn't the cops fault. Until you have the ability to do that then you are going to think that every situation like this is the cop's fault...but it's not. Quite honestly no amount of debate with you is going to change that.
The cops pulled out their guns and shot him seven times. He did nothing that came anywhere close to warranting that kind of response
Are you telling me that two cops weren't capable of tackling him and restraining him? Or, if he resists arrest and you can't subdue him and he flees, put out a warrant for his arrest.
This woman resisted arrest every bit as much as Blake did and didn't get shot seven times:
The cops tried to restrain him and were unable to
The cops tased him and it didn't stop him
He was already armed with a knife and going back to his car for who knows what
He already had a warrant out for his arrest, and the cops were going to arrest him but he had other ideas
So what were the cops suppose to do here exactly?
Let him go and chase him? Could of been a high speed chase and with kids in the car could of been very deadly to both the kids and bystanders
Not try to stop him? What happens if he had a gun in the car? Both of the cops would of been shot and possibly killed
Put a warrant out on him and let him know? Your just extending the inevitable confrontation with police that would of happened later on in the day.
Like i said before....if he stopped at any of these points he would still be alive
When the police asked him to stop
After the police tased him
After the police tried to physically restrain him
After the police pulled their guns out
At any point when he was walking to the car before he opened the door.
The most easy solution to this is the simplest...don't be a criminal and have the cops called on you The second solution is to not resist arrest The third solution here is to not fight with the cops The fourth solution here is to not go to your car after pulling out a weapon when the cops are trying to arrest you.
Quite frankly I don't give a damn about whatever video you are linking. Different cops, different people, different location, and a different situation. I also think that the cops showed a lot of restraint. I'd of pulled the trigger the second that the guy pulled out a knife...most of us would of. I give it to the cops for showing as much restraint as they did.
Like i said before...its pretty obvious you would of been ok if the situation hadn't of turned out as well for the cops. No need to argue that
You just spent so many words and so much time to essentially say that you don't actually care about the fact that the police shot this man. I think you're trying to justify this through an intellectual argument.
But You don't actually care. That's fine. You don't have to care. Atrocities happen all over the world and we all numb ourselves to them in one way or another. Just be honest with yourself that this isn't something you actually care about.
Watch this video. May give some perspective on what a cop has to deal with.
Nobody is saying it's easy to be a cop.
But Why do cops in America kill so many more American citizens than cops in other developed countries?
What is your take on qualified immunity?
People are protesting because sometimes cops do horrible things, and they are almost never held accountable.
I just don't get why any of these reforms are so controversial, or why Republicans are the primary opposition. Cops are agents of the state. If you're concerned with government power and overreach, you should be concerned about Police reforms. They are the enforcement arm of government power. And if "99.9%" of officers are great then these changes are only going to affect the remainder who have no business having a badge and gun
Republicans aren't against reforms , heck that is what Tim Scott has been working on for years with opportunity zones and other reforms . What Republicans don't like is cities burning to the ground and looted under what often is a false racial narrative perpetuated by the media . You remember the Michael Brown hoax with hands up don't shoot that was complete lies, even the Obama DOJ came to that conclusion . Stop with the race baiting at every turn and many more people will come to your side .
Police killings caught on video are the most severe, visible, visceral bad outcome for black Americans in criminal justice so they're going to be a lightning rod. That's not surprising.
Make no mistake, there's no "false narrative" about outcomes for black Americans in policing and criminal justice in this country.
Go look at rates of stops, searches, charges, convictions, false convictions, paroles, or whatever you want to look at, and make the case that bias in the system is a "false narrative."
THAT is what black America is furious about.
Yeah, I'm not sure why anyone would even try to argue against your points anymore. I get people being angry about the reactionary violence in the streets. Its scary to all of us. But listen to some of these black adults in positions of power / influence who have been stopped, frisked, roughed up, questioned, etc for doing nothing. Listen to a person who is black and that you respect talk about how he has to tell his sons how to be careful if ever stopped by a cop, even if they did nothing wrong. As a dad, as a citizen, as a "Christian", as a _____, how do those things not make any of us saddened and angry?
We can all bicker about the men who have been caught in these videos dying at the hands of cops....some were bad guys. Few were saints. Many of them acted out in a way that absolutely put them in position to get hurt. But....if you've grown up as a lesser citizen --- and you've seen this forever....and then you see TV images of cops shooting a black man while other cops walk by a white crazed teen with a rifle....why would you not be angry?
I agree and to me, police brutality is a different topic than systemic racism/discrimination.
While we're on that topic though, what about the Lumbee Indians, my race, who the government won't federally recognize. Imagine how it feels to be told by the government you aren't real, or don't exist.
That's kind of discrimination right? But hey, who cares about us?
I just don't get why any of these reforms are so controversial, or why Republicans are the primary opposition. Cops are agents of the state. If you're concerned with government power and overreach, you should be concerned about Police reforms. They are the enforcement arm of government power. And if "99.9%" of officers are great then these changes are only going to affect the remainder who have no business having a badge and gun
Republicans aren't against reforms , heck that is what Tim Scott has been working on for years with opportunity zones and other reforms . What Republicans don't like is cities burning to the ground and looted under what often is a false racial narrative perpetuated by the media . You remember the Michael Brown hoax with hands up don't shoot that was complete lies, even the Obama DOJ came to that conclusion . Stop with the race baiting at every turn and many more people will come to your side .
Police killings caught on video are the most severe, visible, visceral bad outcome for black Americans in criminal justice so they're going to be a lightning rod. That's not surprising.
Make no mistake, there's no "false narrative" about outcomes for black Americans in policing and criminal justice in this country.
Go look at rates of stops, searches, charges, convictions, false convictions, paroles, or whatever you want to look at, and make the case that bias in the system is a "false narrative."
THAT is what black America is furious about.
Yeah, I'm not sure why anyone would even try to argue against your points anymore. I get people being angry about the reactionary violence in the streets. Its scary to all of us. But listen to some of these black adults in positions of power / influence who have been stopped, frisked, roughed up, questioned, etc for doing nothing. Listen to a person who is black and that you respect talk about how he has to tell his sons how to be careful if ever stopped by a cop, even if they did nothing wrong. As a dad, as a citizen, as a "Christian", as a _____, how do those things not make any of us saddened and angry?
We can all bicker about the men who have been caught in these videos dying at the hands of cops....some were bad guys. Few were saints. Many of them acted out in a way that absolutely put them in position to get hurt. But....if you've grown up as a lesser citizen --- and you've seen this forever....and then you see TV images of cops shooting a black man while other cops walk by a white crazed teen with a rifle....why would you not be angry?
I agree and to me, police brutality is a different topic than systemic racism/discrimination.
While we're on that topic though, what about the Lumbee Indians, my race, who the government won't federally recognize. Imagine how it feels to be told by the government you aren't real, or don't exist.
That's kind of discrimination right? But hey, who cares about us?
Dude, I'm fully in support of the Lumbee Indians. Grew up one county over from Robeson county. What you describe is ABSOLUTELY discrimination, and the very definition of systemic racism.
Black people protesting for their rights doesn't negatively impact youthey're opposing the same power structures and institutions that have hurt the Lumbee people.
You wouldn't let your son be a cop but you'd be proud of him for being a vigilante and carrying a gun underage? I'm confused.
I'm sorry, but why does ANY civilian feel the need or responsibility or capability to go to a massive protest, carry a firearm, and "protect" things? It's total insanity. And 17 year olds aren't known to be the most sensible actors, so there's absolutely some responsibility on the parents here.
Because the government agencies called with protecting stuff are not doing their jobs. The police are either told to stand down or are overwhelmed. Had the Governor of Wisconsin brought in the National Guard after the first night of protests then this doesn't happen. Unfortunately it's going to happen more. People are going to defend their property with their 2nd Amendment rights. If the crap starts happening in my neighborhood, I will be locked, ready, and loaded.
The young man was part of a group of militia who's job was to protect property. I don't see how they can get him for anything but manslaughter and that will be a tough road too. He was in fear of his life. The police are not going to show up, so I cannot blame him for defending himself. If more evidence comes out that puts him in a different light, then maybe they can get the murder charge but with what I have seen, self defense is his right and it will be hard to convict him.
Let's be honest: Militias are gangs.
Nobody goes across state lines with a rifle to protect anythingthey are looking to get into something.
It speaks volumes that we are giving more thought to this kid's motives than those of Jacob Blake. It's actually the entire point.
Your not being honest with your comment. Not all militias are gangs. It's in the Constitution. He wasn't the only one there packing. There were other militia members too. They said they were there to protect property.
Jacob Blake had warrants against him. He did not obey the police officers and paid the price. Oh and he had knife too. They did not shoot him because he was black. They shot him because he was a threat and the officer knew he had warrants against him. And don't try to paint George Floyd as a saint. He had been in prison many times including put a gun to a pregnant women's belly during a crime. If you don't want the police to shoot you, don't commit a crime and don't resist when they try to arrest you for those crimes. Pretty simple to do.
That's a very interesting read of the second amendment, which allows for a well regulated militia. These yahoos don't count.
This guy shot people and the cops WALKED BY HIM. But they HAVE to shoot Jacob Blake???
Jacob Blake never shot anyone.
Did that guy fight police? Did he not comply? Did he do anything that would increase the odds that he might get shot?
Jacob Blake did all that.
Now, if you want to argue if he SHOULD have been shot, fine, but the other situation is in no way comparable. And it wasn't because the kid was white, either. He complied. And didn't get shot. That's how it goes, 99.999% of the time.
He had literally just killed two people and definitely had a firearm in his possession.
Again: Did he resist arrest? Did he comply? Did he give the cops any reason to shoot him?
Having potentially committed a crime previously isn't a reason to shoot him. Actively resisting arrest might well be, though.
So....did he do any of these things? Or did he comply?
Are you arguing that resisting arrest is a reason for the police to shoot someone 7 times in the back?
This is my point. You're coming up with justifications for one situation that are different than the other.
The white guy with a gun who just shot people was treated differently than a black guy without a gun who simply walked away from the cops. That is why people are protesting.
Here is the difference...if the guy had gotten to his vehicle pulled out a gun...then shot and killed both of the officers no one that is protesting would care....you wouldn't care.
The fact of the matter is that the police were called on the guy...he resisted arrest...he was tased and it didn't stop him...the police tried to restrain him and that didn't stop him...he had a knife on him walking to the vehicle..and then went in the door of the car before he was shot
At what point do you think that the guy who was shot is at fault here. He escalated the situation several times before he was shot. There are at least 4 to 5 points in the situation where he could of stopped and it would of prevented everything that happened...but he didn't.
At some point you need to be able to look at the situation objectively and say that this didn't need to happen and it wasn't the cops fault. Until you have the ability to do that then you are going to think that every situation like this is the cop's fault...but it's not. Quite honestly no amount of debate with you is going to change that.
The cops pulled out their guns and shot him seven times. He did nothing that came anywhere close to warranting that kind of response
Are you telling me that two cops weren't capable of tackling him and restraining him? Or, if he resists arrest and you can't subdue him and he flees, put out a warrant for his arrest.
This woman resisted arrest every bit as much as Blake did and didn't get shot seven times:
The cops tried to restrain him and were unable to
The cops tased him and it didn't stop him
He was already armed with a knife and going back to his car for who knows what
He already had a warrant out for his arrest, and the cops were going to arrest him but he had other ideas
So what were the cops suppose to do here exactly?
Let him go and chase him? Could of been a high speed chase and with kids in the car could of been very deadly to both the kids and bystanders
Not try to stop him? What happens if he had a gun in the car? Both of the cops would of been shot and possibly killed
Put a warrant out on him and let him know? Your just extending the inevitable confrontation with police that would of happened later on in the day.
Like i said before....if he stopped at any of these points he would still be alive
When the police asked him to stop
After the police tased him
After the police tried to physically restrain him
After the police pulled their guns out
At any point when he was walking to the car before he opened the door.
The most easy solution to this is the simplest...don't be a criminal and have the cops called on you The second solution is to not resist arrest The third solution here is to not fight with the cops The fourth solution here is to not go to your car after pulling out a weapon when the cops are trying to arrest you.
Quite frankly I don't give a damn about whatever video you are linking. Different cops, different people, different location, and a different situation. I also think that the cops showed a lot of restraint. I'd of pulled the trigger the second that the guy pulled out a knife...most of us would of. I give it to the cops for showing as much restraint as they did.
Like i said before...its pretty obvious you would of been ok if the situation hadn't of turned out as well for the cops. No need to argue that
You just spent so many words and so much time to essentially say that you don't actually care about the fact that the police shot this man. I think you're trying to justify this through an intellectual argument.
But You don't actually care. That's fine. You don't have to care. Atrocities happen all over the world and we all numb ourselves to them in one way or another. Just be honest with yourself that this isn't something you actually care about.
Watch this video. May give some perspective on what a cop has to deal with.
Nobody is saying it's easy to be a cop.
But Why do cops in America kill so many more American citizens than cops in other developed countries?
What is your take on qualified immunity?
People are protesting because sometimes cops do horrible things, and they are almost never held accountable.
I don't know, do other citizens in other countries comply more? Do the numbers get tracked the same?
Yes, cops do horrible things. They are human and make mistakes. It won't change. When you are being put in situations like this, you aren't always going to make the right decision. I'm not excusing it at all, just saying nothing will change that. It happens to latinos, whites, native americans, blacks, asians, etc...
For instance with Jacob Blake. The cops tased him, wrestled with him, walked after him yelling "Drop the knife, drop the knife" while he walked away/resisted, with a knife in his hands. He goes into his car and they finally shoot.
Seriously, if they shot that guy because he was black, I tend to think they would have had an opportunity to do that much earlier.
IMO, these cops in small towns and who lack experience aren't equipped to handle high-pressure situations like this. Fact is, the two cops should have never let Blake back off the ground, but they did. That was the problem from the beginning.
You wouldn't let your son be a cop but you'd be proud of him for being a vigilante and carrying a gun underage? I'm confused.
I'm sorry, but why does ANY civilian feel the need or responsibility or capability to go to a massive protest, carry a firearm, and "protect" things? It's total insanity. And 17 year olds aren't known to be the most sensible actors, so there's absolutely some responsibility on the parents here.
Because the government agencies called with protecting stuff are not doing their jobs. The police are either told to stand down or are overwhelmed. Had the Governor of Wisconsin brought in the National Guard after the first night of protests then this doesn't happen. Unfortunately it's going to happen more. People are going to defend their property with their 2nd Amendment rights. If the crap starts happening in my neighborhood, I will be locked, ready, and loaded.
The young man was part of a group of militia who's job was to protect property. I don't see how they can get him for anything but manslaughter and that will be a tough road too. He was in fear of his life. The police are not going to show up, so I cannot blame him for defending himself. If more evidence comes out that puts him in a different light, then maybe they can get the murder charge but with what I have seen, self defense is his right and it will be hard to convict him.
Let's be honest: Militias are gangs.
Nobody goes across state lines with a rifle to protect anythingthey are looking to get into something.
It speaks volumes that we are giving more thought to this kid's motives than those of Jacob Blake. It's actually the entire point.
Cool.
He's still a murderer and his parents shat the bed in allowing him to go.
I just don't get why any of these reforms are so controversial, or why Republicans are the primary opposition. Cops are agents of the state. If you're concerned with government power and overreach, you should be concerned about Police reforms. They are the enforcement arm of government power. And if "99.9%" of officers are great then these changes are only going to affect the remainder who have no business having a badge and gun
Republicans aren't against reforms , heck that is what Tim Scott has been working on for years with opportunity zones and other reforms . What Republicans don't like is cities burning to the ground and looted under what often is a false racial narrative perpetuated by the media . You remember the Michael Brown hoax with hands up don't shoot that was complete lies, even the Obama DOJ came to that conclusion . Stop with the race baiting at every turn and many more people will come to your side .
Police killings caught on video are the most severe, visible, visceral bad outcome for black Americans in criminal justice so they're going to be a lightning rod. That's not surprising.
Make no mistake, there's no "false narrative" about outcomes for black Americans in policing and criminal justice in this country.
Go look at rates of stops, searches, charges, convictions, false convictions, paroles, or whatever you want to look at, and make the case that bias in the system is a "false narrative."
THAT is what black America is furious about.
Yeah, I'm not sure why anyone would even try to argue against your points anymore. I get people being angry about the reactionary violence in the streets. Its scary to all of us. But listen to some of these black adults in positions of power / influence who have been stopped, frisked, roughed up, questioned, etc for doing nothing. Listen to a person who is black and that you respect talk about how he has to tell his sons how to be careful if ever stopped by a cop, even if they did nothing wrong. As a dad, as a citizen, as a "Christian", as a _____, how do those things not make any of us saddened and angry?
We can all bicker about the men who have been caught in these videos dying at the hands of cops....some were bad guys. Few were saints. Many of them acted out in a way that absolutely put them in position to get hurt. But....if you've grown up as a lesser citizen --- and you've seen this forever....and then you see TV images of cops shooting a black man while other cops walk by a white crazed teen with a rifle....why would you not be angry?
I agree and to me, police brutality is a different topic than systemic racism/discrimination.
While we're on that topic though, what about the Lumbee Indians, my race, who the government won't federally recognize. Imagine how it feels to be told by the government you aren't real, or don't exist.
That's kind of discrimination right? But hey, who cares about us?
Dude, I'm fully in support of the Lumbee Indians. Grew up one county over from Robeson county. What you describe is ABSOLUTELY discrimination, and the very definition of systemic racism.
Black people protesting for their rights doesn't negatively impact youthey're opposing the same power structures and institutions that have hurt the Lumbee people.
But this isn't a black issue here. Just like I don't view it as a native american issue. This is police brutality.
I always hear about how law enforcement should look to descalate these situations, but I hardly ever hear the same for those being arrested.
Why isn't resisting arrest strongly discouraged and condemned by racial justice proponents, politicians and the media?
Who benefits from resisting arrest?
The person being arrested? Law enforcement? Innocent bystanders?
It seems like a no win situation for everyone involved. I just feel like it should be included in the conversation when discussing these situations.
Because police are supposed to be trained professionals while perps are... criminals. You tend to hold people in positions of authority to a higher standard.
I'm all for more police, better funded police, better trained police, etc. Many have a really hard job. But I want all that to come with liability for their conduct.
But they are human and they have split seconds to make life and death decisions. There are some bad police, but 99.9% I believe are trying to do the right thing. They want to do their job then hopefully come home at night to their family. And you said it perfectly above. "Perps are criminals" and many times they lose their lives during the commission of crimes. We hold the police officers accountable for their actions, but the actions of the criminals get forgotten.
1st, No we don't hold them accountable for their actions. That's pretty much the point of all these pages. For the sake of argument, I'll accept your 99.9% number here. Why is it so damn difficult to punish the 0.1%? Why does the police union block them from being fired? Why are they immune from suits in civil court 99% of the time, even if the judge believes the officer committed misconduct? Why can the rare cop who actually is fired, move a short ways away and get the same job again?
As for the criminal...they are dead. Why should we keep focusing on that. In almost all cases, they weren't committing crimes worthy of the death penalty
That is the justice system then if they are committing misconduct and not being convicted. And yes those crimes did not deserve the death penalty, so don't resist and don't commit crimes and have warrants out for your arrest. It's really pretty simple.
George Floyd complied with the police and was executed in broad daylight.
So you might forgive black people for not exactly trusting that following the rules will keep them safe.
Come on man, Donald Trump has a better grip on the truth then you do here.
What did I say that's incorrect? Did Floyd resist arrest?
He was dragged out of the car and executed in broad daylight. Can you disprove that?
Yes. He absolutely resisted arrest. He was bombed out of his mind on Fentanyl. And he had a heart attack.
These cop deals are often like Monday morning QB. We want to turn around and make the right call after the seeing the result as if it's that easy.
Damn, if I tased a guy, wrestled with him, told him to drop a knife and he still goes into his car, what's the next move for him?
Me and a few friends were talking about this tonight, 3 of my best buddies are african americans, guys I play ball with. We were talking about what it means when you get into a fight or argument at an outside court and a guy says "I'm going to my car." You know what that means and you know what he's going to get.
These cops could have thought that this guy had a knife and was going to his car. We expect them to wait on him to shoot somebody first? Right.
I just don't get why any of these reforms are so controversial, or why Republicans are the primary opposition. Cops are agents of the state. If you're concerned with government power and overreach, you should be concerned about Police reforms. They are the enforcement arm of government power. And if "99.9%" of officers are great then these changes are only going to affect the remainder who have no business having a badge and gun
Republicans aren't against reforms , heck that is what Tim Scott has been working on for years with opportunity zones and other reforms . What Republicans don't like is cities burning to the ground and looted under what often is a false racial narrative perpetuated by the media . You remember the Michael Brown hoax with hands up don't shoot that was complete lies, even the Obama DOJ came to that conclusion . Stop with the race baiting at every turn and many more people will come to your side .
Police killings caught on video are the most severe, visible, visceral bad outcome for black Americans in criminal justice so they're going to be a lightning rod. That's not surprising.
Make no mistake, there's no "false narrative" about outcomes for black Americans in policing and criminal justice in this country.
Go look at rates of stops, searches, charges, convictions, false convictions, paroles, or whatever you want to look at, and make the case that bias in the system is a "false narrative."
THAT is what black America is furious about.
Yeah, I'm not sure why anyone would even try to argue against your points anymore. I get people being angry about the reactionary violence in the streets. Its scary to all of us. But listen to some of these black adults in positions of power / influence who have been stopped, frisked, roughed up, questioned, etc for doing nothing. Listen to a person who is black and that you respect talk about how he has to tell his sons how to be careful if ever stopped by a cop, even if they did nothing wrong. As a dad, as a citizen, as a "Christian", as a _____, how do those things not make any of us saddened and angry?
We can all bicker about the men who have been caught in these videos dying at the hands of cops....some were bad guys. Few were saints. Many of them acted out in a way that absolutely put them in position to get hurt. But....if you've grown up as a lesser citizen --- and you've seen this forever....and then you see TV images of cops shooting a black man while other cops walk by a white crazed teen with a rifle....why would you not be angry?
I agree and to me, police brutality is a different topic than systemic racism/discrimination.
While we're on that topic though, what about the Lumbee Indians, my race, who the government won't federally recognize. Imagine how it feels to be told by the government you aren't real, or don't exist.
That's kind of discrimination right? But hey, who cares about us?
Dude, I'm fully in support of the Lumbee Indians. Grew up one county over from Robeson county. What you describe is ABSOLUTELY discrimination, and the very definition of systemic racism.
Black people protesting for their rights doesn't negatively impact youthey're opposing the same power structures and institutions that have hurt the Lumbee people.
But this isn't a black issue here. Just like I don't view it as a native american issue. This is police brutality.
I'm not sure why they are lumped together.
Because police brutality happens to black people, per capita, WAY more often than it does to white people.
Because policing in America has often disproportionately harmed black people.
