TopsailWolf said:

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My wish would be that we value all lives equally. How do we continue to hear about George Floyd for hours on end, but nothing on the 17 (and counting) lives lost as a result of the riots. How do we can continue to hear about white on black crime, when DOUBLE the amount of white people are killed by black people, and white on white/black on black killings were 10x more frequent. TEN TIMES.

The way George Floyd was treated was incomprehensible, but the fact that American major news networks have carried multiple funeral services for a man who's been arrested 9 times and was killed by one cop on a power trip while 17 other families mourn the same loss without as much as blurb on the evening news should tell you everything you need to know about mass media in this country. Think for yourselves. Look at the numbers.

Nothing will change until we quit painting each side with a broad brush. Are there racist cops? I'm sure there are. Are there racist politicians? I'm sure there are. But to think that chasing people around in the streets somehow demanding justice is going to change anything but create more division is childish. Where are the protesters outside the abortion clinics? Where are the protesters outside of the single mother homes begging the fathers to stay? Where are the protesters on the streets of every major city where there are countless gang and drug related deaths EVERY DAY. Those deaths don't matter?

Love your neighbor. Love people that look like you. Love people that look different than you. And quit yelling and degrading someone with a different opinion than you. Civil discourse, understanding, and valuing another person's thoughts and perspective is the only answer regardless of what the vocal minority says.

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I think we can pretty much lock this thread down after that. Nothing else needs to be said.

packgrad said:

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statefan91 said:

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I don't think he needs to be fired, but he shouldn't be interacting with the public if he's unable to do so without antagonizing the people that peacefully protesting.

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Yet you have no evidence of people peacefully protesting in either video.

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Well, they were peacefully protesting in the video where he was antagonizing them. Just because they are loud or he doesn't like the message, doesn't mean it wasn't peaceful. If they were setting fire to things, destroying property, etc, then I would agree that it wasn't a peaceful protest.

I've already agreed that it's unfortunate the Officer was pushed and I think the protester should be arrested.

TopsailWolf said:

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My wish would be that we value all lives equally. How do we continue to hear about George Floyd for hours on end, but nothing on the 17 (and counting) lives lost as a result of the riots. How do we can continue to hear about white on black crime, when DOUBLE the amount of white people are killed by black people, and white on white/black on black killings were 10x more frequent. TEN TIMES.

The way George Floyd was treated was incomprehensible, but the fact that American major news networks have carried multiple funeral services for a man who's been arrested 9 times and was killed by one cop on a power trip while 17 other families mourn the same loss without as much as blurb on the evening news should tell you everything you need to know about mass media in this country. Think for yourselves. Look at the numbers.

Nothing will change until we quit painting each side with a broad brush. Are there racist cops? I'm sure there are. Are there racist politicians? I'm sure there are. But to think that chasing people around in the streets somehow demanding justice is going to change anything but create more division is childish. Where are the protesters outside the abortion clinics? Where are the protesters outside of the single mother homes begging the fathers to stay? Where are the protesters on the streets of every major city where there are countless gang and drug related deaths EVERY DAY. Those deaths don't matter?

Love your neighbor. Love people that look like you. Love people that look different than you. And quit yelling and degrading someone with a different opinion than you. Civil discourse, understanding, and valuing another person's thoughts and perspective is the only answer regardless of what the vocal minority says.

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A person's time is not an unlimited resources, so they focus on things that they feel impact them the most. This is like saying we shouldn't support Jimmy V foundation because all diseases matter, or that we shouldn't be concerned about the endangered Red Wolf because all animals matter.

I agree, everything matters. People will focus on what's relevant to them. So I implore you to get out there and use your right to protest and address some of those things you called out that are important to you.I hope you can let us know what you decide to go protest!

statefan91 said:

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packgrad said:

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statefan91 said:

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I don't think he needs to be fired, but he shouldn't be interacting with the public if he's unable to do so without antagonizing the people that peacefully protesting.

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Yet you have no evidence of people peacefully protesting in either video.

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Well, they were peacefully protesting in the video where he was antagonizing them. Just because they are loud or he doesn't like the message, doesn't mean it wasn't peaceful. If they were setting fire to things, destroying property, etc, then I would agree that it wasn't a peaceful protest.

I've already agreed that it's unfortunate the Officer was pushed and I think the protester should be arrested.

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I guess we're redefining protesting. What they are doing to the officer is not protesting. It's harassment. Yelling in his face. Blocking his path where he is trying to walk. Mind boggling to me you consider that "protesting". I tend to think you would think differently if it was a woman and these were men, or a black officer and these were white protesters protesting for gun rights.

When did threateningly getting in someone's face yelling at them become considered peaceful?

BobbyCox95 said:

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packgrad said:

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" Just a few minutes ago a scuffle started in front of the Charlotte Mecklenburg Government Center - the crowd was telling Capt. Brad Koch of CMPD he had to leave," Brian Christiansen of WJZY tweeted. "He's the same officer who's walked alongside protestors, signaling ahead clearing intersections for them"

Sunday night, several of protesters became hostile towards Koch while he walked with protesters in Uptown. Koch, said CMPD "has walked more than a hundred miles with protesters this week."

Koch was aided by other protesters "who protected him" as he fended off the attack, CMPD said.

"We want to thank all of the protesters who looked out for Captain Brad until officers arrived," CMPD said.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/patch.com/north-carolina/charlotte/amp/28790425/cmpd-officer-protester-scuffle-outside-government-center-video

Right. It's his fault.

Amazing the parallel in excuses between this and sexual assault.

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But some people on this very board want him fired because he raised the roof and put his hand behind his ear. Can't make this up. This is the world we live in now.

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Mehhh, no. When one police officer gets involved in two different scuffles hours apart....and those are the only two cop-involved scuffles during that period, something is going on.
I don't buy he was the innocent bystander who happened to just have some bad agents react to him two different times.

Just move him away from the chaos.

ETA: And sure, the people who were blocking his path and trolling him are a** as well, who I would love to see arrested.

As others have already said, you can't protest every thing all the time. Specific issues have their own organizations and supporters who don't get chastised for not supporting every other cause in their category.
You mentioned killings of of black Americans by other black people. IMO there is a huge difference between criminal murder, which is a product of education, home environments, drug abuse, and economic opportunity vs. Killings of Americans by police. The first is something no one supports and has been fought for decades. The latter is the result of violence against citizens by their own government. Anyone who supports small government should be wary of the state's power to inflict physical harm or confiscate property.

A protest is not going to make the crack dealer on the corner get a real job and stop slinging. But it may make your local and state government make reforms and change laws. You can already see some positive changes coming from these protests. New York had the most restrictive laws in the country regarding police disciplinary records and they were repealed this week. Cities around the country have been announcing modest reforms like bans of choke holds and mandating officers try to deescalate situations before resorting to lethal force. It's way too early to see if meaningful change will come out of these protests, but there are positive signs right now.

Another instance of a cop on a power trip. It's just a shame these few outliers are getting all the attention rather than the majority of police officers That are willing to listen, change, and be accountable. Same goes for the few looters and rioters that take away the message from protests.

This was also considered a peaceful protest for reopening in Michigan:



https://www.freep.com/story/news/2020/05/05/michigan-capitol-building-protest-picture/3084192001/

I usually assume if people are protesting it's for something they're very passionate about. I don't expect that to be a docile thing.

Pretty sure that picture has been kind of debunked. I believe the man there was actually yelling at a politician behind the police officers, not actually getting in the police officer's faces.

Pacfanweb said:

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Pretty sure that picture has been kind of debunked. I believe the man there was actually yelling at a politician behind the police officers, not actually getting in the police officer's faces.

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Correct.

statefan91 said:

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TopsailWolf said:

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My wish would be that we value all lives equally. How do we continue to hear about George Floyd for hours on end, but nothing on the 17 (and counting) lives lost as a result of the riots. How do we can continue to hear about white on black crime, when DOUBLE the amount of white people are killed by black people, and white on white/black on black killings were 10x more frequent. TEN TIMES.

The way George Floyd was treated was incomprehensible, but the fact that American major news networks have carried multiple funeral services for a man who's been arrested 9 times and was killed by one cop on a power trip while 17 other families mourn the same loss without as much as blurb on the evening news should tell you everything you need to know about mass media in this country. Think for yourselves. Look at the numbers.

Nothing will change until we quit painting each side with a broad brush. Are there racist cops? I'm sure there are. Are there racist politicians? I'm sure there are. But to think that chasing people around in the streets somehow demanding justice is going to change anything but create more division is childish. Where are the protesters outside the abortion clinics? Where are the protesters outside of the single mother homes begging the fathers to stay? Where are the protesters on the streets of every major city where there are countless gang and drug related deaths EVERY DAY. Those deaths don't matter?

Love your neighbor. Love people that look like you. Love people that look different than you. And quit yelling and degrading someone with a different opinion than you. Civil discourse, understanding, and valuing another person's thoughts and perspective is the only answer regardless of what the vocal minority says.

---

A person's time is not an unlimited resources, so they focus on things that they feel impact them the most. This is like saying we shouldn't support Jimmy V foundation because all diseases matter, or that we shouldn't be concerned about the endangered Red Wolf because all animals matter.

I agree, everything matters. People will focus on what's relevant to them. So I implore you to get out there and use your right to protest and address some of those things you called out that are important to you.I hope you can let us know what you decide to go protest!

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You should be correct here, but the problem I see is that if someone started up the Vimmy J Foundation to support research for brain tumors instead of cancer or started a group to support the Grey Wolf your not gonna get the media and the more liberal parts of our society screaming about how racist it is that you support grey wolf causes as well.

Unfortunately we are at a place that you are criticized, ostracized, cancelled, and called a racist if you don't agree with the exact line as a certain group now. You aren't allowed to support any of those other causes. That is the issue.

Do I believe that black lives matter.....absolutely. I also believe that all lives matter, but i'm only allowed to voice agreement with one of these. I can dive down even further than that. The guy from CPI just thought that there was another way to solve the issue, but he got nailed to the cross for it. Its crazy

TopsailWolf said:

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I'd appreciate if you didn't put words in my mouth. I never said there wasn't racial inequality. I'm also not naive enough to believe that everything going on around us is racially produced. A policeman on a power trip eventually kills a man while proving how bad he is by keeping his knee on the guys neck for 10 minutes isn't racism. ITS A BAD COP ON A POWER TRIP. I'm asking why are we valuing some lives over others, not denying that black lives matter.

I'm unequivocally supportive of peoples right to protest, but it's a shame that we're utilizing significant media time on "mass systemic racism by all white people" while no one talks about the Actual identifiable things that have in large part stifled the upward mobility of black people; prevalence and despair of the Single family unit that puts these at risk kids at a built-in disadvantage, 250,000+ abortions by black women every year because there are abortion clinics in every low income area waiting to prey on mothers which seemingly no other way out, and the education disparity between white people and minorities. Those are the things that matter.

I was raised by a single mother in poverty and lived the agony of my mother trying to grind us into the lower middle class so I could have a life a little better than hers. I was the built-in disadvantage. At some point you have to lose the rhetoric, display action, and be accountable for your own life.

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Who said you said there isn't racial inequality?

I said you either think there's enough of it to warrant protesting, or you don't.

Some people think the prevalence of single motherhood, the desperation of poor mothers too frequently faced with a life-altering (and potentially life-ending) choice about their unborn babies, and the lack of access to equitable education and support structures in poor areas aren't in some significant way a trailing effect of slavery and extensive racial discrimination in this country.

A lot of people feel that way. And that's actually part of what's being protested.

If you feel black America's current struggles are unrelated to slavery and racial discrimination, that's completely your prerogative. It's also your prerogative to feel that black people being freed from slavery and then given the right to vote in the 1960's was the end of significant discrimination in this country.

I don't know if you feel that way or not, but a lot of people do. Like "it's pretty equal now that black people aren't enslaved or being lynched as much, and can vote. It's been a minute since then, so it's time they just figure out their own **** and stop complaining about small inequities."

Again - not saying that's the way you feel - but a lot of people in this country do, and that needs to change in order to spur social reforms.

Kudos to your Mom and the tremendous work it sounds like she and your family did. Every family situation is different and I'm not comparing yours to anyone else's.

When you layer generational poverty AND societal discrimination on top of one another it's a challenge that's almost insurmountable. By that I mean there will always be exceptions but that's not just 'not a setup for success'; it's a recipe for failure.

Not confirmed, but I just saw on Twitter that the show Live PD has been cancelled. I'll admit I have never watched an episode, but I loved the show Cops. Something about that show and seeing so many pathetic idiots being featured always made me feel better about my own life no matter how difficult things were at the time. A reminder that you and your life could always be worse than it seems.

I saw Cops was cancelled, never seen Live PD

Seattle is so opposed to Live PD and Cops, they've given protesters their own police station and 6 block area.

Live PD was cancelled because they deleted footage of a suspect dying on camera while being arrested. I'm not totally sure why that warrants the show being cancelled, but that's what led to the move.

They better not cancel The First 48. LOVE that show.

That's just the BS excuse they used

acslater1344 said:

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Live PD was cancelled because they deleted footage of a suspect dying on camera while being arrested. I'm not totally sure why that warrants the show being cancelled, but that's what led to the move.

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GuerrillaPack said:

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They better not cancel The First 48. LOVE that show.

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My wife has gotten hooked on it and I really enjoy it. We DVR the series (reruns I'm sure) and watch several episodes on the weekend

caryking said:

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RunsWithWolves26 said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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RunsWithWolves26 said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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I like how it's obvious that you have Antifa and other leftists/communists rioting, smashing up businesses, and burning down buildings.

But then the leftist/communist Establishment media runs stories on the eventing "news", claiming that "white supremacists" are the ones who are out there rioting and burning down buildings.

Wow. It's white supremacists again. Those pesky white supremacists are just everywhere!

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It's both who are doing it. I know that doesnt fit your narrative but facts are facts. Get off the conspiracy bull***** Stop spewing your far right agenda blaming anyone you can. Both sides are wrong. That includes YOURS

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Forgive me if I don't believe that the communist Lamestream media reports facts. It's propaganda.

For every "white supremacist" out there among the rioters, there must be 1,000 communists and leftists. And if any "white supremacists" were actually out among the rioters, they probably were not out there to smash buildings. Maybe they were out there to counter-protest, who knows.

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You are one sick person. You are the problem. You and your my way or the highway, I'm always right, they are always wrong, attitude is the problem. God why someone who is an obvious bigot, obvious troll, is allowed to continue to spew your garbage here is amazing to me. You are no better then the antifa groups you constantly ***** about. Actually, people like you are just as much, if not more of a problem, then the rioters and looters. Your entire goal is to spew hatred, cause anger and make the situation worse.

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And that tirade helps how?

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Don't go down that rabbit hole man.

packgrad said:

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caryking said:

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RunsWithWolves26 said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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RunsWithWolves26 said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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I like how it's obvious that you have Antifa and other leftists/communists rioting, smashing up businesses, and burning down buildings.

But then the leftist/communist Establishment media runs stories on the eventing "news", claiming that "white supremacists" are the ones who are out there rioting and burning down buildings.

Wow. It's white supremacists again. Those pesky white supremacists are just everywhere!

---

It's both who are doing it. I know that doesnt fit your narrative but facts are facts. Get off the conspiracy bull***** Stop spewing your far right agenda blaming anyone you can. Both sides are wrong. That includes YOURS

---

Forgive me if I don't believe that the communist Lamestream media reports facts. It's propaganda.

For every "white supremacist" out there among the rioters, there must be 1,000 communists and leftists. And if any "white supremacists" were actually out among the rioters, they probably were not out there to smash buildings. Maybe they were out there to counter-protest, who knows.

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You are one sick person. You are the problem. You and your my way or the highway, I'm always right, they are always wrong, attitude is the problem. God why someone who is an obvious bigot, obvious troll, is allowed to continue to spew your garbage here is amazing to me. You are no better then the antifa groups you constantly ***** about. Actually, people like you are just as much, if not more of a problem, then the rioters and looters. Your entire goal is to spew hatred, cause anger and make the situation worse.

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And that tirade helps how?

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Don't go down that rabbit hole man.

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That's cute. Be better if you had you're own original stuff but hey, you be you buddy. No anger here!

RunsWithWolves26 said:

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packgrad said:

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caryking said:

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RunsWithWolves26 said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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RunsWithWolves26 said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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I like how it's obvious that you have Antifa and other leftists/communists rioting, smashing up businesses, and burning down buildings.

But then the leftist/communist Establishment media runs stories on the eventing "news", claiming that "white supremacists" are the ones who are out there rioting and burning down buildings.

Wow. It's white supremacists again. Those pesky white supremacists are just everywhere!

---

It's both who are doing it. I know that doesnt fit your narrative but facts are facts. Get off the conspiracy bull***** Stop spewing your far right agenda blaming anyone you can. Both sides are wrong. That includes YOURS

---

Forgive me if I don't believe that the communist Lamestream media reports facts. It's propaganda.

For every "white supremacist" out there among the rioters, there must be 1,000 communists and leftists. And if any "white supremacists" were actually out among the rioters, they probably were not out there to smash buildings. Maybe they were out there to counter-protest, who knows.

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You are one sick person. You are the problem. You and your my way or the highway, I'm always right, they are always wrong, attitude is the problem. God why someone who is an obvious bigot, obvious troll, is allowed to continue to spew your garbage here is amazing to me. You are no better then the antifa groups you constantly ***** about. Actually, people like you are just as much, if not more of a problem, then the rioters and looters. Your entire goal is to spew hatred, cause anger and make the situation worse.

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And that tirade helps how?

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Don't go down that rabbit hole man.

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That's cute. Be better if you had you're own original stuff but hey, you be you buddy. No anger here!

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Lol.

I'm absolutely opposed to unjustified homicide by anyone, and especially the police. So I'm not trying to say that there was justfication here to kill Floyd. But that said, George Floyd was not some kind of "saint". He had a violent criminal history going back over a decade -- including a violent home invasion and aggravated robbery in 2007 in Texas, in which he broke into a woman's home and pointed a gun at her stomach while searching the house for drugs and money.

Also, Floyd apparently was under the influence of fentanyl and methamphetamine at the time of arrest and death. Could the influence of those drugs contributed to his death? I understand that most people believe he asphyxiated. But I also hear that the official cause of death is disputed, and may not have been conclusively determined.

Floyd had many run-ins with the law while in Minneapolis. Is it possible that Floyd was well-known to the officers because of his criminal history? If so, is it possible that they went too far and got a little too forceful in the arrest because of this fact?

Also, 2 of the 4 officers arrested for Floyd's death are not white -- one is asian and one is part black.

All that to say this....there is not any evidence that the death of George Floyd was racially motivated. Two of the officers were not white. One of the officers was black. George Floyd was a violent convicted felon. Maybe, he was roughed-up by the police because he was a known violent person, with many run-ins with the law in Minneapolis. Maybe the fact that he was under the influence of drugs contributed to his death. And, yes, maybe a bad cop acted in an unjustified manner and took things too far.

This doesn't fit the narrative of "racist white cop kills a black man for no reason", as people are trying to make this out to be.

George Floyd did not deserve to be sentenced to death by a bad cop for trying to pass a bad $20, no matter what his criminal past was.

Is there adequate racial equality in the US criminal justice system?

If your answer is yes, you won't understand the protests.

If your answer is no, the protests are perfectly understandable.

Seattle is far from understandable.

Civilized said:

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George Floyd did not deserve to be sentenced to death by a bad cop for trying to pass a bad $20, no matter what his criminal past was.

Is there adequate racial equality in the US criminal justice system?

If your answer is yes, you won't understand the protests.

If your answer is no, the protests are perfectly understandable.

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Yeah, I already stated that it wouldn't be "justified" to kill Floyd based on his criminal past. I prefaced my post by making that perfectly clear.

Define what you mean when you say "racial equality in the US criminal justice system". I think that every race is now "equal" before the law -- meaning that people of every race in the United States have an equal chance at justice when being charged with crimes and going through trial, etc.

The fact that ~35% of prison inmates in the U.S. are black (while blacks are ~13% of the U.S. population) does not indicate that there is injustice in the criminal system. It most likely indicates that black Americans are just more likely to commit criminal offences.

packgrad said:

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Seattle is far from understandable.

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In the historical context of major protests, what's hard to understand about it?

Civilized said:

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packgrad said:

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Seattle is far from understandable.

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In the historical context of major protests, what's hard to understand about it?

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Oh, we "understand" why these people are rioting. But the fact of the matter is that they are rioting for unjustifiable and irrational reasons.