Cool - so there's probably a line at some point
statefan91 said:
Cool - so there's probably a line at some point
RunsWithWolves26 said:statefan91 said:
Cool - so there's probably a line at some point
Don't go down the rabbit hole man
Are you talking about the one that knocked over the old man in Buffalo? The one that is still in serious condition in the hospital?packgrad said:
Probably. Nowhere near where yours apparently is though. I also don't think the officer that pushed the old man should be fired, and charging them with a crime is ridiculous political grandstanding.
Police UnionsBobbyCox95 said:
Has anyone even checked into the 18 allegations of officer Chauvins to see if there is a pattern of racist behavior? How do we know he's not just a power hungry, crooked cop who treats everyone poorly? My question is why, after 18 allegations is he still a police officer? Now his actions have triggered abuse and disrespect to every officer in America. For what? 99.99% of our police force are honest, brave, hard working Americans who are now constantly in exponentially more danger than they already were.
IseWolf22 said:Police UnionsBobbyCox95 said:
Has anyone even checked into the 18 allegations of officer Chauvins to see if there is a pattern of racist behavior? How do we know he's not just a power hungry, crooked cop who treats everyone poorly? My question is why, after 18 allegations is he still a police officer? Now his actions have triggered abuse and disrespect to every officer in America. For what? 99.99% of our police force are honest, brave, hard working Americans who are now constantly in exponentially more danger than they already were.
99.9% of Officers should be on the side of reforms because people are angry that the 0.1% often aren't held accountable. The majority of protesters are against the overall system, not individual cops.
IseWolf22 said:Police UnionsBobbyCox95 said:
Has anyone even checked into the 18 allegations of officer Chauvins to see if there is a pattern of racist behavior? How do we know he's not just a power hungry, crooked cop who treats everyone poorly? My question is why, after 18 allegations is he still a police officer? Now his actions have triggered abuse and disrespect to every officer in America. For what? 99.99% of our police force are honest, brave, hard working Americans who are now constantly in exponentially more danger than they already were.
99.9% of Officers should be on the side of reforms because people are angry that the 0.1% often aren't held accountable. The majority of protesters are against the overall system, not individual cops.
packgrad said:IseWolf22 said:Police UnionsBobbyCox95 said:
Has anyone even checked into the 18 allegations of officer Chauvins to see if there is a pattern of racist behavior? How do we know he's not just a power hungry, crooked cop who treats everyone poorly? My question is why, after 18 allegations is he still a police officer? Now his actions have triggered abuse and disrespect to every officer in America. For what? 99.99% of our police force are honest, brave, hard working Americans who are now constantly in exponentially more danger than they already were.
99.9% of Officers should be on the side of reforms because people are angry that the 0.1% often aren't held accountable. The majority of protesters are against the overall system, not individual cops.
Reform is absolutely necessary. Hard not to see the value in unions though when people want police fired for defending themselves.
statefan91 said:
Sounds like you may have a problem with police unions if you're wondering why he wasn't fired after that many complaints?
And if you're being honest, you would see a police officer demonstrating an inability to interact with a peacefully protesting public. Whether or not he likes the message they're protesting, if he is in a role where he is supposed to be interacting with citizens as a representative of the CMPD, he should have the ability to do so without antagonizing and trying to escalate an already tenuous situation where they are literally protesting mistreatment by police. Maybe I have higher expectations of someone who has voluntarily decided to protect and serve?
PS - Koch makes $100k so saying he's underpaid and overworked might be a stretch.
BobbyCox95 said:IseWolf22 said:Police UnionsBobbyCox95 said:
Has anyone even checked into the 18 allegations of officer Chauvins to see if there is a pattern of racist behavior? How do we know he's not just a power hungry, crooked cop who treats everyone poorly? My question is why, after 18 allegations is he still a police officer? Now his actions have triggered abuse and disrespect to every officer in America. For what? 99.99% of our police force are honest, brave, hard working Americans who are now constantly in exponentially more danger than they already were.
99.9% of Officers should be on the side of reforms because people are angry that the 0.1% often aren't held accountable. The majority of protesters are against the overall system, not individual cops.
Then why are they abusing individual cops? Cops that have nothing to do with any of this. We have been taught by the media that cops are the enemy. We've been taught that we live in a culture of police brutality and racist cops. This isn't right.
statefan91 said:
Sounds like you may have a problem with police unions if you're wondering why he wasn't fired after that many complaints?
And if you're being honest, you would see a police officer demonstrating an inability to interact with a peacefully protesting public. Whether or not he likes the message they're protesting, if he is in a role where he is supposed to be interacting with citizens as a representative of the CMPD, he should have the ability to do so without antagonizing and trying to escalate an already tenuous situation where they are literally protesting mistreatment by police. Maybe I have higher expectations of someone who has voluntarily decided to protect and serve?
PS - Koch makes $100k so saying he's underpaid and overworked might be a stretch.
Two thoughts come to my mind when seeing the video of Koch egging on the crowd:Civilized said:statefan91 said:metcalfmafia said:
There is another video in the thread of the cop taunting the crowd. Giving the "I can't hear you" hand gesture. Telling them to get louder.
I'm not saying that he deserved to get pushed for egging them on. However, he is a police officer and I assume he has gone through significant training on de-escalation techniques, working with the community, working with crowds, etc. Instead of utilizing those he took the route of egging them on.
De-escalation training is not as common or comprehensive as you would think. He definitely didn't de-escalate.
"Not egging them on" is just common sense, and he didn't do that either.
IseWolf22 said:BobbyCox95 said:IseWolf22 said:Police UnionsBobbyCox95 said:
Has anyone even checked into the 18 allegations of officer Chauvins to see if there is a pattern of racist behavior? How do we know he's not just a power hungry, crooked cop who treats everyone poorly? My question is why, after 18 allegations is he still a police officer? Now his actions have triggered abuse and disrespect to every officer in America. For what? 99.99% of our police force are honest, brave, hard working Americans who are now constantly in exponentially more danger than they already were.
99.9% of Officers should be on the side of reforms because people are angry that the 0.1% often aren't held accountable. The majority of protesters are against the overall system, not individual cops.
Then why are they abusing individual cops? Cops that have nothing to do with any of this. We have been taught by the media that cops are the enemy. We've been taught that we live in a culture of police brutality and racist cops. This isn't right.
Who is they? The protesters are not a monolithic group and only a minority have been violent. When I look at the various abuses committed by officers during these protests, should I apply that to all police or are those officers different than the majority that are doing their job properly?
IseWolf22 said:packgrad said:IseWolf22 said:Police UnionsBobbyCox95 said:
Has anyone even checked into the 18 allegations of officer Chauvins to see if there is a pattern of racist behavior? How do we know he's not just a power hungry, crooked cop who treats everyone poorly? My question is why, after 18 allegations is he still a police officer? Now his actions have triggered abuse and disrespect to every officer in America. For what? 99.99% of our police force are honest, brave, hard working Americans who are now constantly in exponentially more danger than they already were.
99.9% of Officers should be on the side of reforms because people are angry that the 0.1% often aren't held accountable. The majority of protesters are against the overall system, not individual cops.
Reform is absolutely necessary. Hard not to see the value in unions though when people want police fired for defending themselves.
They have far too much power over the disciplinary process. I'm not saying unions need to be abolished but they are powerful political entities and many cities need to reign them in
You can't successfully police without local support. An unwritten part of that is that you only beat up a person who damn well deserves it and the people who know it, knows it was deserved. Sometimes a successful officer has to take **** and abuse from a crowd. It's part of the job and by doing so he raises his credibility with the people he is trying to police. Sometimes you have to give people time to know THEY did something wrong for it to have any effect on future behavior.Packchem91 said:Two thoughts come to my mind when seeing the video of Koch egging on the crowd:Civilized said:statefan91 said:metcalfmafia said:
There is another video in the thread of the cop taunting the crowd. Giving the "I can't hear you" hand gesture. Telling them to get louder.
I'm not saying that he deserved to get pushed for egging them on. However, he is a police officer and I assume he has gone through significant training on de-escalation techniques, working with the community, working with crowds, etc. Instead of utilizing those he took the route of egging them on.
De-escalation training is not as common or comprehensive as you would think. He definitely didn't de-escalate.
"Not egging them on" is just common sense, and he didn't do that either.
1) The image of all those folks aggressively up in the cops face is disturbing enough. What the heck has happened in this world. I think back to my days at NC State, and would like to have seen what happened if a couple of drunk bros would have pulled that with some RPD officers trying to keep fans off Hillsborough after a win over UNC.
2) Koch should be at least suspended, given the egging on. After all that has gone on, how does any cop do that in the middle of a televised protest.
Of course, the fact he was there speaks volumes -- he was the same guy involved in a similar dustup the night before while walking with protestors. Given this scene, I'd guess he said something that helped escalate that incident as well.
CMPD leaders should have seen the first televised scuffle and made sure Koch was nowhere near the scene the next day --- if not as a punishment, as just good reading of what all was going on.
I hold both parties at fault, and should arrest anyone who touched the guy....but he's surely not helping make things better for CMPD or police in general.
Packchem91 said:
Two thoughts come to my mind when seeing the video of Koch egging on the crowd:
1) The image of all those folks aggressively up in the cops face is disturbing enough. What the heck has happened in this world. I think back to my days at NC State, and would like to have seen what happened if a couple of drunk bros would have pulled that with some RPD officers trying to keep fans off Hillsborough after a win over UNC.
2) Koch should be at least suspended, given the egging on. After all that has gone on, how does any cop do that in the middle of a televised protest.
Of course, the fact he was there speaks volumes -- he was the same guy involved in a similar dustup the night before while walking with protestors. Given this scene, I'd guess he said something that helped escalate that incident as well.
CMPD leaders should have seen the first televised scuffle and made sure Koch was nowhere near the scene the next day --- if not as a punishment, as just good reading of what all was going on.
I hold both parties at fault, and should arrest anyone who touched the guy....but he's surely not helping make things better for CMPD or police in general.
He is the chief, which is what makes his childish behavior even worse.BobbyCox95 said:statefan91 said:
Sounds like you may have a problem with police unions if you're wondering why he wasn't fired after that many complaints?
And if you're being honest, you would see a police officer demonstrating an inability to interact with a peacefully protesting public. Whether or not he likes the message they're protesting, if he is in a role where he is supposed to be interacting with citizens as a representative of the CMPD, he should have the ability to do so without antagonizing and trying to escalate an already tenuous situation where they are literally protesting mistreatment by police. Maybe I have higher expectations of someone who has voluntarily decided to protect and serve?
PS - Koch makes $100k so saying he's underpaid and overworked might be a stretch.
I don't know who Koch is but I can assure you cops do not make 100k. He must be the chief for that kind of pay if true. Most cops have to work many years just to make 1/2 that. "Most cops" as in the ones being abused the most.
metcalfmafia said:He is the chief, which is what makes his childish behavior even worse.BobbyCox95 said:statefan91 said:
Sounds like you may have a problem with police unions if you're wondering why he wasn't fired after that many complaints?
And if you're being honest, you would see a police officer demonstrating an inability to interact with a peacefully protesting public. Whether or not he likes the message they're protesting, if he is in a role where he is supposed to be interacting with citizens as a representative of the CMPD, he should have the ability to do so without antagonizing and trying to escalate an already tenuous situation where they are literally protesting mistreatment by police. Maybe I have higher expectations of someone who has voluntarily decided to protect and serve?
PS - Koch makes $100k so saying he's underpaid and overworked might be a stretch.
I don't know who Koch is but I can assure you cops do not make 100k. He must be the chief for that kind of pay if true. Most cops have to work many years just to make 1/2 that. "Most cops" as in the ones being abused the most.
Is that the kind of culture he holds his force to?
IDK about NC but in some places you can absolutely earn over $100K. Regional variation of salary is enormous for law enforcement.BobbyCox95 said:statefan91 said:
Sounds like you may have a problem with police unions if you're wondering why he wasn't fired after that many complaints?
And if you're being honest, you would see a police officer demonstrating an inability to interact with a peacefully protesting public. Whether or not he likes the message they're protesting, if he is in a role where he is supposed to be interacting with citizens as a representative of the CMPD, he should have the ability to do so without antagonizing and trying to escalate an already tenuous situation where they are literally protesting mistreatment by police. Maybe I have higher expectations of someone who has voluntarily decided to protect and serve?
PS - Koch makes $100k so saying he's underpaid and overworked might be a stretch.
I don't know who Koch is but I can assure you cops do not make 100k. He must be the chief for that kind of pay if true. Most cops have to work many years just to make 1/2 that. "Most cops" as in the ones being abused the most.
BobbyCox95 said:metcalfmafia said:He is the chief, which is what makes his childish behavior even worse.BobbyCox95 said:statefan91 said:
Sounds like you may have a problem with police unions if you're wondering why he wasn't fired after that many complaints?
And if you're being honest, you would see a police officer demonstrating an inability to interact with a peacefully protesting public. Whether or not he likes the message they're protesting, if he is in a role where he is supposed to be interacting with citizens as a representative of the CMPD, he should have the ability to do so without antagonizing and trying to escalate an already tenuous situation where they are literally protesting mistreatment by police. Maybe I have higher expectations of someone who has voluntarily decided to protect and serve?
PS - Koch makes $100k so saying he's underpaid and overworked might be a stretch.
I don't know who Koch is but I can assure you cops do not make 100k. He must be the chief for that kind of pay if true. Most cops have to work many years just to make 1/2 that. "Most cops" as in the ones being abused the most.
Is that the kind of culture he holds his force to?
I would bet no. I bet he got caught in the moment of having 50 people yelling in his face for no reason and that was the response he came up with as an alternative to laying his hands on someone.
IseWolf22 said:IDK about NC but in some places you can absolutely earn over $100K. Regional variation of salary is enormous for law enforcement.BobbyCox95 said:statefan91 said:
Sounds like you may have a problem with police unions if you're wondering why he wasn't fired after that many complaints?
And if you're being honest, you would see a police officer demonstrating an inability to interact with a peacefully protesting public. Whether or not he likes the message they're protesting, if he is in a role where he is supposed to be interacting with citizens as a representative of the CMPD, he should have the ability to do so without antagonizing and trying to escalate an already tenuous situation where they are literally protesting mistreatment by police. Maybe I have higher expectations of someone who has voluntarily decided to protect and serve?
PS - Koch makes $100k so saying he's underpaid and overworked might be a stretch.
I don't know who Koch is but I can assure you cops do not make 100k. He must be the chief for that kind of pay if true. Most cops have to work many years just to make 1/2 that. "Most cops" as in the ones being abused the most.
The national average for a police sergeant is $81K. Google turns up multiple examples of officers who made over $100k in overtime alone.
California has relatively good salaries, but pensions really sweeten the deal. In some cities you can draw pension while still working and double your pay. In NJ, the median salary is over $100k
https://www.nj.com/news/2017/05/how_much_is_the_median_cop_salary_in_your_town.html
Anyone else find it ironic that there are 50-100 white agitators pretending to be protesting on behalf of the BLM movement and the only one that has respect for authority is the black man with a mask on that's protecting the officer? Sickening.packgrad said:BobbyCox95 said:metcalfmafia said:He is the chief, which is what makes his childish behavior even worse.BobbyCox95 said:statefan91 said:
Sounds like you may have a problem with police unions if you're wondering why he wasn't fired after that many complaints?
And if you're being honest, you would see a police officer demonstrating an inability to interact with a peacefully protesting public. Whether or not he likes the message they're protesting, if he is in a role where he is supposed to be interacting with citizens as a representative of the CMPD, he should have the ability to do so without antagonizing and trying to escalate an already tenuous situation where they are literally protesting mistreatment by police. Maybe I have higher expectations of someone who has voluntarily decided to protect and serve?
PS - Koch makes $100k so saying he's underpaid and overworked might be a stretch.
I don't know who Koch is but I can assure you cops do not make 100k. He must be the chief for that kind of pay if true. Most cops have to work many years just to make 1/2 that. "Most cops" as in the ones being abused the most.
Is that the kind of culture he holds his force to?
I would bet no. I bet he got caught in the moment of having 50 people yelling in his face for no reason and that was the response he came up with as an alternative to laying his hands on someone.
This has been happening for at least 2 days. There have been 2 videos of him being targeted. This is not protesting.
packgrad said:
This has been happening for at least 2 days. There have been 2 videos of him being targeted. This is not protesting.
packgrad said:
" Just a few minutes ago a scuffle started in front of the Charlotte Mecklenburg Government Center - the crowd was telling Capt. Brad Koch of CMPD he had to leave," Brian Christiansen of WJZY tweeted. "He's the same officer who's walked alongside protestors, signaling ahead clearing intersections for them"
Sunday night, several of protesters became hostile towards Koch while he walked with protesters in Uptown. Koch, said CMPD "has walked more than a hundred miles with protesters this week."
Koch was aided by other protesters "who protected him" as he fended off the attack, CMPD said.
"We want to thank all of the protesters who looked out for Captain Brad until officers arrived," CMPD said.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/patch.com/north-carolina/charlotte/amp/28790425/cmpd-officer-protester-scuffle-outside-government-center-video
Right. It's his fault.
Amazing the parallel in excuses between this and sexual assault.
statefan91 said:
I don't think he needs to be fired, but he shouldn't be interacting with the public if he's unable to do so without antagonizing the people that peacefully protesting.