PGA Golf Tour vs LIV Golf

42,038 Views | 558 Replies | Last: 6 mo ago by Packchem91
DrummerboyWolf
How long do you want to ignore this user?
wilmwolf80 said:

Eh, apparently the Euro tour didn't immediately suspend guys like the PGA tour did, so now they are suspending and fining them. The fine is only $3k more than last place in the LIV event, so I doubt any of them are too worried. Looks like they'll still be able to play the Open.
They also suspended them for the Scottish Open, the week before the Open Championship. I believe Phil would have tried to play that if he was allowed. The last two times a guy has won the week before a major and then won the very next week in the Major is Mickelson. He won the Bell South before the Masters in 2006 then won the Scottish before winning the Open in 2013.
Being an N. C. State Fan Builds Great Character
DrummerboyWolf
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Matthew Wolff joining the LIV Golf series. Guy has all kinds of talent but has had some depression problems, but is still a big young name. We will see how it goes.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/matthew-wolff-latest-talent-join-190236420.html
Being an N. C. State Fan Builds Great Character
Wolfer79
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Bob Ley calls on LIV Golf critics to provide equal coverage of the NBA's relationship with China https://t.co/ll7dBexuac https://t.co/L2N2gG9d5N
DrummerboyWolf
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Wolfer79 said:

Bob Ley calls on LIV Golf critics to provide equal coverage of the NBA's relationship with China https://t.co/ll7dBexuac https://t.co/L2N2gG9d5N
Yep, finally a journalist who will do their job.

The PGA tour also does business with China and I think 22 other countries accused of human rights violations. I believe Greg Norman will start highlighting that every week that LIV plays.
Being an N. C. State Fan Builds Great Character
TheStorm
How long do you want to ignore this user?
If a tree falls in the forest and there's nobody around does it make a sound?
wilmwolf
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Wolfer79 said:

Bob Ley calls on LIV Golf critics to provide equal coverage of the NBA's relationship with China https://t.co/ll7dBexuac https://t.co/L2N2gG9d5N


I agree. I have zero problem with journalists who object to it on moral grounds due to Saudi involvement. But if you object for that reason, then you should be consistent in that objection.

The thing is, even without the moral outrage, there's plenty to be critical of with LIV, but sports journos immediately went to hypocritical pearl clutching instead of just attacking it for being a dumb, uninteresting format.
Just a guy on the sunshine squad.
jadawson
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Wolfer79 said:

Bob Ley calls on LIV Golf critics to provide equal coverage of the NBA's relationship with China https://t.co/ll7dBexuac https://t.co/L2N2gG9d5N
I agree the moral outrage is way overblown considering how many other ties everyone has to morally questionable countries in their own lives, even outside of sports you play, watch, give money to.

That being said, i dont think this is a great comparison now and i havent thought so when every other whataboutism was brought up over the past few weeks. Surely we can agree there is at least a small amount of difference between choosing to become directly employed by an arm of the government that carries out the acts people are outraged about, and playing in a domestic league that actively markets itself and runs a separate spinoff league within a country that does deplorable things.

Its the difference between being employed at Disney World, while Disney also operates a Shanghai theme park and edits their films to meet chinese censorship standards vs. being employed at a theme park owned and operated by the chinese state.

The LIV guys are just maximizing earnings, same as anyone else. Sportswashing only works if you let it work. Keep the outrage directed at the Saudi government and our own government (among others) for working with them if you want.
Wolfer79
How long do you want to ignore this user?
LIV Golf realizes it needs a TV deal in order to, you know, build a following and a fanbase
https://t.co/uZ400Cl6kp
FlossyDFlynt
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Gotta say, that press conference yesterday really rubbed me the wrong way. These guys have 8-9 figure bank accounts complaining about a harrowing schedule to play golf professionally. They acted like they were looking for sympathy for having such a strenuous professional life. How many people would kill to switch positions with them?
wilmwolf
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Can't you say that about most professional athletes though (or the super wealthy in general)? Football players complaining about having to play one more game a season, or basketball players refusing to play because they want to be traded, or guys holding out for a better contract when they are already making tens or hundreds of millions of dollars. When you compare it to what we average Joes go through, it all comes off as out of touch. Personally, I think the money in sports at all levels is dumb, which Is why I'm very selective as to how I use my own dollars to support any of it, which has basically left me supporting NC State only. None of these guys will get any sympathy from me but I'm not surprised that they would be out of touch.
Just a guy on the sunshine squad.
Packchem91
How long do you want to ignore this user?
wilmwolf80 said:

Can't you say that about most professional athletes though (or the super wealthy in general)? Football players complaining about having to play one more game a season, or basketball players refusing to play because they want to be traded, or guys holding out for a better contract when they are already making tens or hundreds of millions of dollars. When you compare it to what we average Joes go through, it all comes off as out of touch. Personally, I think the money in sports at all levels is dumb, which Is why I'm very selective as to how I use my own dollars to support any of it, which has basically left me supporting NC State only. None of these guys will get any sympathy from me but I'm not surprised that they would be out of touch.

Great point -- and I'd actually argue the difference for the golfers is if they don't play well, they miss the cut and don't get paid, or finish 54th and don't cover expenses.
The NFL WR who skips camp and then has career lows -- he get his salary in full.
Yes, it is out of touch with common man, but that is universal in sports.

In Pat Perez's case, if he can play half the weekends but be guaranteed to make as much cash as if he still did 30, even if he sucks all year, why wouldn't he do that?**

**clearly the answer most would come up with is either because of the source of those $$s and/or the lack of testing themselves against best competition.
FlossyDFlynt
How long do you want to ignore this user?
wilmwolf80 said:

Can't you say that about most professional athletes though (or the super wealthy in general)? Football players complaining about having to play one more game a season, or basketball players refusing to play because they want to be traded, or guys holding out for a better contract when they are already making tens or hundreds of millions of dollars. When you compare it to what we average Joes go through, it all comes off as out of touch. Personally, I think the money in sports at all levels is dumb, which Is why I'm very selective as to how I use my own dollars to support any of it, which has basically left me supporting NC State only. None of these guys will get any sympathy from me but I'm not surprised that they would be out of touch.

You certainly can. I can sympathize a bit more with football/hockey/basketball about the schedule as those sports are much more demanding on the body.

It probably hit home a bit more for me as I have had years with 45ish weeks on the road for work and they are complaining about playing 20 to 30 golf tournaments a year.
Packchem91
How long do you want to ignore this user?
FlossyDFlynt said:

Gotta say, that press conference yesterday really rubbed me the wrong way. These guys have 8-9 figure bank accounts complaining about a harrowing schedule to play golf professionally. They acted like they were looking for sympathy for having such a strenuous professional life. How many people would kill to switch positions with them?
I think one of the issues the LIV has is, they don't have a lot of likeable stars. When you have to run out Patrick Reed -- generally considered the most dislikeable guy in PGA, Brooks, and Dechambeau, you're probably not going to win the room too often.

All three of those guys have either directly lied or cheated, or think they are smarter than all the media. None are charming. So the media loves to eat those kinds of guys, even if unfairly.

Same with Phil to a degree --- while fans have always loved him, he certainly has jerked the chain of the media over the years, and they are happy to oblige eating him up now.

I like Matt Wolf, but he doesn't have the cache to change anything.
DrummerboyWolf
How long do you want to ignore this user?
FlossyDFlynt said:

wilmwolf80 said:

Can't you say that about most professional athletes though (or the super wealthy in general)? Football players complaining about having to play one more game a season, or basketball players refusing to play because they want to be traded, or guys holding out for a better contract when they are already making tens or hundreds of millions of dollars. When you compare it to what we average Joes go through, it all comes off as out of touch. Personally, I think the money in sports at all levels is dumb, which Is why I'm very selective as to how I use my own dollars to support any of it, which has basically left me supporting NC State only. None of these guys will get any sympathy from me but I'm not surprised that they would be out of touch.

You certainly can. I can sympathize a bit more with football/hockey/basketball about the schedule as those sports are much more demanding on the body.

It probably hit home a bit more for me as I have had years with 45ish weeks on the road for work and they are complaining about playing 20 to 30 golf tournaments a year.
There are varying degrees of demanding on the body. Yes there is no physical contact, but you are hitting thousands of balls a week. A lot of guys have swings that put a lot of torque on their bodies. Your back, your knees, your wrists and on. One reason Mickelson has been able to maintain without too many injuries related to golf is that he has a long fluid swing that doesn't put as much stress on the body say as Tiger's swing early on did.

One other thing and I am sorry you have to travel so many weeks a year, but you get paid no matter what and I imagine your expenses are fully reimbursed. Are you in a different city almost every week? They pay for their own travel, hotels, meals and so on and if they don't make the cut, then they don't make any money and with expenses they end up losing money. Still have to pay the caddy even if you don't get paid. That puts the pressure on for the next tournament you are playing. Sure it's great to play golf for a living, but there is a lot more to it than fans see. Lots of practice, workouts, playing the Pro ams, signing autographs so their time is not just the 5 hours they spend on the course.
Being an N. C. State Fan Builds Great Character
PackFansXL
How long do you want to ignore this user?


How about an albatross to lighten the mood today?
FlossyDFlynt
How long do you want to ignore this user?
DrummerboyWolf said:

FlossyDFlynt said:

wilmwolf80 said:

Can't you say that about most professional athletes though (or the super wealthy in general)? Football players complaining about having to play one more game a season, or basketball players refusing to play because they want to be traded, or guys holding out for a better contract when they are already making tens or hundreds of millions of dollars. When you compare it to what we average Joes go through, it all comes off as out of touch. Personally, I think the money in sports at all levels is dumb, which Is why I'm very selective as to how I use my own dollars to support any of it, which has basically left me supporting NC State only. None of these guys will get any sympathy from me but I'm not surprised that they would be out of touch.

You certainly can. I can sympathize a bit more with football/hockey/basketball about the schedule as those sports are much more demanding on the body.

It probably hit home a bit more for me as I have had years with 45ish weeks on the road for work and they are complaining about playing 20 to 30 golf tournaments a year.
There are varying degrees of demanding on the body. Yes there is no physical contact, but you are hitting thousands of balls a week. A lot of guys have swings that put a lot of torque on their bodies. Your back, your knees, your wrists and on. One reason Mickelson has been able to maintain without too many injuries related to golf is that he has a long fluid swing that doesn't put as much stress on the body say as Tiger's swing early on did.

One other thing and I am sorry you have to travel so many weeks a year, but you get paid no matter what and I imagine your expenses are fully reimbursed. Are you in a different city almost every week? They pay for their own travel, hotels, meals and so on and if they don't make the cut, then they don't make any money and with expenses they end up losing money. Still have to pay the caddy even if you don't get paid. That puts the pressure on for the next tournament you are playing. Sure it's great to play golf for a living, but there is a lot more to it than fans see. Lots of practice, workouts, playing the Pro ams, signing autographs so their time is not just the 5 hours they spend on the course.
There isnt anything to feel sorry for me on, I knew what I was getting into when I went into this field. My travel is completely client dependent. Ive had years where I would bounce around locations weekly and years where I went the same place every week. As part of my contract with clients, all my expenses are paid for by the clients, except on very rare occasions when my company would cover the costs. I know the amount of time/effort they put in is way more than I can realize. I realize they have to put a ton of their own money in up front. My main point is that they also knew what they were getting into, and if you reach the level of the LIV guys, you are already "made it". I also kind of laugh that they are trying to build a new tour with multiple guys who don't really seem to want to play much golf anymore.
Packchem91
How long do you want to ignore this user?
FlossyDFlynt said:

DrummerboyWolf said:

FlossyDFlynt said:

wilmwolf80 said:

Can't you say that about most professional athletes though (or the super wealthy in general)? Football players complaining about having to play one more game a season, or basketball players refusing to play because they want to be traded, or guys holding out for a better contract when they are already making tens or hundreds of millions of dollars. When you compare it to what we average Joes go through, it all comes off as out of touch. Personally, I think the money in sports at all levels is dumb, which Is why I'm very selective as to how I use my own dollars to support any of it, which has basically left me supporting NC State only. None of these guys will get any sympathy from me but I'm not surprised that they would be out of touch.

You certainly can. I can sympathize a bit more with football/hockey/basketball about the schedule as those sports are much more demanding on the body.

It probably hit home a bit more for me as I have had years with 45ish weeks on the road for work and they are complaining about playing 20 to 30 golf tournaments a year.
There are varying degrees of demanding on the body. Yes there is no physical contact, but you are hitting thousands of balls a week. A lot of guys have swings that put a lot of torque on their bodies. Your back, your knees, your wrists and on. One reason Mickelson has been able to maintain without too many injuries related to golf is that he has a long fluid swing that doesn't put as much stress on the body say as Tiger's swing early on did.

One other thing and I am sorry you have to travel so many weeks a year, but you get paid no matter what and I imagine your expenses are fully reimbursed. Are you in a different city almost every week? They pay for their own travel, hotels, meals and so on and if they don't make the cut, then they don't make any money and with expenses they end up losing money. Still have to pay the caddy even if you don't get paid. That puts the pressure on for the next tournament you are playing. Sure it's great to play golf for a living, but there is a lot more to it than fans see. Lots of practice, workouts, playing the Pro ams, signing autographs so their time is not just the 5 hours they spend on the course.
There isnt anything to feel sorry for me on, I knew what I was getting into when I went into this field. My travel is completely client dependent. Ive had years where I would bounce around locations weekly and years where I went the same place every week. As part of my contract with clients, all my expenses are paid for by the clients, except on very rare occasions when my company would cover the costs. I know the amount of time/effort they put in is way more than I can realize. I realize they have to put a ton of their own money in up front. My main point is that they also knew what they were getting into, and if you reach the level of the LIV guys, you are already "made it". I also kind of laugh that they are trying to build a new tour with multiple guys who don't really seem to want to play much golf anymore.
I think what will be interesting is when the LIV starts holding those guys -- who, I agree seem like would prefer low participation, to start playing more. Or doing pre-tournament appearances. If you're going to guarantee someone millions, why wouldn't you make them show up at events
Wolfer79
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Bryson DeChambeau, one of the latest golfers to join the LIV Golf Series, wants people look to beyond Saudi Arabia's human rights abuses and see the "good" the league can do
They are being paid to say this crap!
@Martina @NormOrnstein @WalshFreedom
https://t.co/xpRxjCJQIl
Wolfer79
How long do you want to ignore this user?
"Every tournament you're going to have to deal with us."
This was the message by the 9/11 families seeking justice to the LIV Golf players ahead of the first mega money event on US soil backed by Saudi Arabia.
@Martina @jaketapper @RonWyden
https://t.co/to52sImNDt
DrummerboyWolf
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Branden Grace won the 2nd LIV event yesterday just outside of Portland. He fired a 65, including a nice chip in from a very sketchy lie. Carlos Ortiz finished 2nd and DJ and Patrick Reed tied for third. Good crowds out there all three days and they had a sell out on Saturday. For star power it was no contest as the the John Deere only had one player in the top 50 in the world playing. That was Webb Simpson and he missed the cut.

Here is a story about how the modern PGA Tour broke away from the PGA of America back in the late 60's Really not much difference today. A lot of the players want changes. The PGA Tour doesn't want to cede control of anything. Same story different decade. It's a long read but it gives a good accounting of what went on.

https://golf.com/news/tournaments/pga-championship-nearly-died/

Here are some of the player comments from LIV Golf about the PGA before the tournament started.

Like Pat Perez, the 46-year-old who is unapologetic for seeking more money while working less after 20 years and 515 starts on the PGA Tour.


Perez took a look at the field of this week's PGA Tour event, the John Deere Classic, and it was like chum in the water.

"The tour has tried to strong-arm us all year and come with bans and suspensions and all that," he said. "And how'd that work? Look how many guys are here. That didn't work at all. So the top threats and all that kind of stuff, and how many major winners do you have here compared to John Deere? It's not even close.

"The tour wants to keep talking about strength of field ... the strength of field is here. So whether everybody wants to talk about it or not, that's what it is. Facts are facts."

Here is the link to the whole story.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/liv-players-airing-grievances-against-190946764.html

Being an N. C. State Fan Builds Great Character
CandorPack
How long do you want to ignore this user?
You are posting quotes from a dude that can't win on THE tour about how weak the field is??? If it's so weak Mr. Perez why aren't you playing and winning the damn thing? He knows his place and that's why he has went LIV. Can't blame the guy. A grinder for years that could live a luxurious lifestyle wants to cash in and live with F you money. Got it. All good here.
CandorPack
How long do you want to ignore this user?
And not to pile on the golfing god that Pat Perez is but there is a reason no one is playing in the John Deere this week. The Scottish Open is now a PGA tour sanctioned event and everyone qualified (top golfers in the world) are playing in that this upcoming weekend. They decided to fly across the pond to get ready for the next two weeks. Mr Pat Perez himself must have a hard time understanding this information. Nice 34th place finish out of 48 dudes Pat. Keep grinding
TheStorm
How long do you want to ignore this user?
CandorPack said:

And not to pile on the golfing god that Pat Perez is but there is a reason no one is playing in the John Deere this week. The Scottish Open is now a PGA tour sanctioned event and everyone qualified (top golfers in the world) are playing in that this upcoming weekend. They decided to fly across the pond to get ready for the next two weeks. Mr Pat Perez himself must have a hard time understanding this information. Nice 34th place finish out of 48 dudes Pat. Keep grinding
Meanwhile, Mickelson shoots a smooth +10...

Anyone that thinks the LIV is winning is delusional. So much effort into a post about nothing...
DrummerboyWolf
How long do you want to ignore this user?
CandorPack said:

You are posting quotes from a dude that can't win on THE tour about how weak the field is??? If it's so weak Mr. Perez why aren't you playing and winning the damn thing? He knows his place and that's why he has went LIV. Can't blame the guy. A grinder for years that could live a luxurious lifestyle wants to cash in and live with F you money. Got it. All good here.
You also didn't read the story that said in 20 years on tour he has made 515 starts. He has kept his card the whole time, but he has had to play a lot of golf every year to do it. He did have a bad day in the last round, but since he was on the winning team with DJ, Reed, and Gooch he did make a pretty good chunk of change. Probably close to a million dollars. Not bad for three days. And I believe LIV Golf paid for the hotels for all the players as well as their caddies. LIV Golf also donated a million dollars to Portland area charities.

And there were other comments in the story as well. I did not highlight them, but most of them centered on communication with the players or lack thereof.

I am sure all you PGA Tour guys watched every bit of the John Deere with J. T. Poston going wire to wire. I think he is a North Carolinian from the western part of the state so good for him. It had to be exciting TV for sure.
Being an N. C. State Fan Builds Great Character
TheStorm
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Yes, I sure did watch JT Poston on Saturday and Sunday... he's from Hickory and went to school with my daughter and was a member of our church when we last lived up there.
DrummerboyWolf
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Ian Poulter and two others sue for the right to be in the Scottish Open and win. The first shot has been fired. Jay Monahan will not be happy since the PGA and DP World Tours are co-sanctioning the event.

https://sports.yahoo.com/ryder-cup-hero-ian-poulter-195852102.html
Being an N. C. State Fan Builds Great Character
jadawson
How long do you want to ignore this user?
DrummerboyWolf said:

Ian Poulter and two others sue for the right to be in the Scottish Open and win. The first shot has been fired. Jay Monahan will not be happy since the PGA and DP World Tours are co-sanctioning the event.

https://sports.yahoo.com/ryder-cup-hero-ian-poulter-195852102.html
to be clear, they didn't win just yet. They got a hold put on the sanctions until the final ruling is made

"with the judge Phillip Sycamore granting a stay of suspension with a major ruling still to come"
Packchem91
How long do you want to ignore this user?
TheStorm said:

CandorPack said:

And not to pile on the golfing god that Pat Perez is but there is a reason no one is playing in the John Deere this week. The Scottish Open is now a PGA tour sanctioned event and everyone qualified (top golfers in the world) are playing in that this upcoming weekend. They decided to fly across the pond to get ready for the next two weeks. Mr Pat Perez himself must have a hard time understanding this information. Nice 34th place finish out of 48 dudes Pat. Keep grinding
Meanwhile, Mickelson shoots a smooth +10...

Anyone that thinks the LIV is winning is delusional. So much effort into a post about nothing...
I went hiking with fam on Sunday, but did watch the JD on Saturday -- and while the field was lacking, I did find it compelling to watch Poston. I want to see guys competing on the top tour that they've all invested time and lives to get to...and that is, and will remain, the PGA Tour. I don't want "no name" guys winning every week, but good stories can still be had out of 140 competitors grinding for a Tour win.

Clearly the field was also impacted by the # of quality players in Ireland for the fundraiser tournament and then the Scottish coming up.

On the contrary, i found nothing compelling about the idea of the LIV, even with the added star power this week of Koepka, Dechambeau, and Reed. In fact, those guys make it less compelling for me, frankly.


caryking
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Everyone knows (if you don't, here goes) that I work in the Golf industry. I have connections to things going on…

Here is what is being said about the LIV: this series, for the Saudi's, is nothing more than a betting play. They say that the Saudi's will be the house (house money) and are expecting a minimum of a 3X return on their money.

The players are going, obviously for the money; however, for the Saudi's, it's a casino play…
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
Wolfer79
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Wolfer79
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Breaking: The Justice Department is investigating whether the PGA Tour engaged in anticompetitive actions as it battles the Saudi-backed LIV Golf league https://t.co/GCaemU6gPQ
Wolfer79
How long do you want to ignore this user?
PGA Tour-LIV Golf drama sees to be boosting TV audience fortunes lately.

CBS scored 2.17 million viewers for the final round of the @ScottishOpen on Sunday (part of @DPWorldTour).

Best audience on record for that event on U.S. airwaves.

Good news for @TheOpen ?? https://t.co/r9OBCMbWmc
DrummerboyWolf
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Wolfer79 said:

PGA Tour-LIV Golf drama sees to be boosting TV audience fortunes lately.

CBS scored 2.17 million viewers for the final round of the @ScottishOpen on Sunday (part of @DPWorldTour).

Best audience on record for that event on U.S. airwaves.

Good news for @TheOpen ?? https://t.co/r9OBCMbWmc
That may be the first time ever the Scottish Open was broadcast on one of the four major Networks(Fox, ABC, CBS, and NBC) in the U.S. Usually it was only on the Golf Channel as far as I can remember. Since the PGA was co-sponsoring the event with the DP World Tour that would have helped the ratings.
Being an N. C. State Fan Builds Great Character
Packchem91
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Wolfer79 said:

PGA Tour-LIV Golf drama sees to be boosting TV audience fortunes lately.

CBS scored 2.17 million viewers for the final round of the @ScottishOpen on Sunday (part of @DPWorldTour).

Best audience on record for that event on U.S. airwaves.

Good news for @TheOpen ?? https://t.co/r9OBCMbWmc
I think the open, perhaps Tiger's last, at St Andrews -- will do record #s, especially if Tiger is anywhere near the leaderboard.

The Scottish was fun, at least up until Sunday when the weather layed down
cowboypack02
How long do you want to ignore this user?
caryking said:

Everyone knows (if you don't, here goes) that I work in the Golf industry. I have connections to things going on…

Here is what is being said about the LIV: this series, for the Saudi's, is nothing more than a betting play. They say that the Saudi's will be the house (house money) and are expecting a minimum of a 3X return on their money.

The players are going, obviously for the money; however, for the Saudi's, it's a casino play…
When you say you have connections...do you mean "I play golf with Tiger when he's on the east coast" connections or do you mean "i could get you a decent deal on a new set of cubs if your interested" connections?

I ask because for two reasons....#1 I'm curious, and #2 I could use a new set of clubs

 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.