You are still in obvious denial there, my friend...

I agree with you on a ton of topics, but with this one you have let your blind loyalty to a one Phil Mickelson completely cloud your naturally in-grained logic... it's ok though, you'll figure that out somewhere down the road.

Bobby, Byron, Arnie and Jack send their love...

All this has been in the works for a couple of years now. Phill knew that and could have stayed around to see it happen but LIV, errrrrr financial issues, forced his hand. LIV has also forced the PGA to fast track what they were planning to do. That is a good thing long term for the PGA. Unfortunately for all the Phil fan boys out there his reputation and personal accomplishments are gone.

CandorPack said:

---

All this has been in the works for a couple of years now. Phill knew that and could have stayed around to see it happen but LIV, errrrrr financial issues, forced his hand. LIV has also forced the PGA to fast track what they were planning to do. That is a good thing long term for the PGA. Unfortunately for all the Phil fan boys out there his reputation and personal accomplishments are gone.

---

Yep.

BTW. Somebody had to "pitch" the idea to the Saudi's to begin with (and I would assume others as well, while it was in the process of being "shopped around")... the Saudi's didn't just wake up one morning and say to themselves, "hey, let's start our own golf tour and poach playing members directly from the PGA"... nope, that **** originated stateside... the Saudi's are just the first ones that bought into it to allow it to actually happen.

CandorPack said:

---

All this has been in the works for a couple of years now. Phill knew that and could have stayed around to see it happen but LIV, errrrrr financial issues, forced his hand. LIV has also forced the PGA to fast track what they were planning to do. That is a good thing long term for the PGA. Unfortunately for all the Phil fan boys out there his reputation and personal accomplishments are gone.

---

I call BS on this being in the works. LIV forced the PGA Tour's hand. Phil has complained about a lot of these issues for a long time and done a lot of it behind closed doors and nothing happened. He had no financial issues and said so himself. He said that his gambling about ten years ago COULD HAVE put him in a bad spot, but he addressed it. He also said his family has been financially secure for many years. Those were his words at one of the LIV press conferences. It's his money and he can do what he wishes with it.

His legacy is only tarnished by people who don't like him. He still has 45 PGA Tour wins and 6 major Championships. More than you will ever have. Looks like you are a troll account for someone else. Carry on..

Count me as one who doesn't think Phil's legacy was tarnished. Perhaps he made the wrong decision here, but that does not take away from his years of incredible golf.

TheStorm said:

---

CandorPack said:

---

All this has been in the works for a couple of years now. Phill knew that and could have stayed around to see it happen but LIV, errrrrr financial issues, forced his hand. LIV has also forced the PGA to fast track what they were planning to do. That is a good thing long term for the PGA. Unfortunately for all the Phil fan boys out there his reputation and personal accomplishments are gone.

---

Yep.

BTW. Somebody had to "pitch" the idea to the Saudi's to begin with (and I would assume others as well, while it was in the process of being "shopped around")... the Saudi's didn't just wake up one morning and say to themselves, "hey, let's start our own golf tour and poach playing members directly from the PGA"... nope, that **** originated stateside... the Saudi's are just the first ones that bought into it to allow it to actually happen.

---

Will admit to not having tracked this forever, but isn't that what Greg Norman did? He tried to start a world tour years and years ago, didn't get off the ground, then went to the Saudis?

CandorPack said:

---

All this has been in the works for a couple of years now. Phill knew that and could have stayed around to see it happen but LIV, errrrrr financial issues, forced his hand. LIV has also forced the PGA to fast track what they were planning to do. That is a good thing long term for the PGA. Unfortunately for all the Phil fan boys out there his reputation and personal accomplishments are gone.

---

When you say "in the works", don't you really mean "PGA players had asked for it, but the PGAT hadn't responded kindly at all"?
If what you suggest is true, and even if Phil had financial issues.....the other big names who left would not have (the PGAT could have informed them sooner, as those defections were predicted weeks ahead of time, so surely the Tour knew what was going on).

I think this new announcement has been completely developed in the past few months since Phil first defected and then the other guys signed up.

As for Phil -- its silly to say his accomplishments are gone. Did someone take his trophies away? They're not going to expunge his records, lol. He takes a huge hit, no doubt. But I suspect in a few years, when the Tour players are all making a lot more $$$, there will be a lot of forgiveness. And we all know fans are willing to give stars a 2nd chance -- it is America, still.
Now the media.....those guys have invested a lot of pride into making Phil a pariah.....though Shipnuck (where this all started) has admitted Phil was right, I suspect they'll still need a bad guy

CandorPack said:

---

All this has been in the works for a couple of years now. Phill knew that and could have stayed around to see it happen but LIV, errrrrr financial issues, forced his hand. LIV has also forced the PGA to fast track what they were planning to do. That is a good thing long term for the PGA. Unfortunately for all the Phil fan boys out there his reputation and personal accomplishments are gone.

---

Should have kept that comment in the peach fields....

Phil will be remembered among the game's greatest golfers.

wilmwolf80 said:

---

If Tiger's legacy is intact, I think Phil will be ok.

---

I agree that i think his legacy will most likely be fine, but it is key to distinguish that Tiger 1) had time to rehab his image on the course as his transgressions didn't occur at the twilight of his career, and 2) Tiger never had the entirety of the golf media throwing snide remarks his way during broadcasts and weekly articles for months on end like Phil has.

wilmwolf80 said:

---

If Tiger's legacy is intact, I think Phil will be ok.

---

Here's a theory of mine.... and everyone can take it or leave it....

Tiger came up during the steroid era. Tiger went from rail thin to damn near a sculpted body within 2 years with little to no body fat.

Tiger's "body" started breaking down long before his drug issues and transgressions came to light. He gave his ex-wife $500 million with a non-disclosure agreement clause. Give me $500 million and I'll keep a secret.

Tiger, unlike Jack, Arnold, etc... will not be walking 18 in his 70's. He wasn't going to prior to the accident due to his body breaking down like.. well.. like a guy who used steroids.

Much like Barry Bonds, he was already one of the greatest to play the game. Why he chose to go that route, if he did, who knows. But to say there aren't legitimate questions surrounding him, as well as a few other "legends," Serena Williams, about PED's is ludicrous.

The only reason why there are no questions is..... well.... we all know.

jadawson said:

---

wilmwolf80 said:

---

If Tiger's legacy is intact, I think Phil will be ok.

---

I agree that i think his legacy will most likely be fine, but it is key to distinguish that Tiger 1) had time to rehab his image on the course as his transgressions didn't occur at the twilight of his career, and 2) Tiger never had the entirety of the golf media throwing snide remarks his way during broadcasts and weekly articles for months on end like Phil has.

---

Wonder why???? Between the Nike/Disney association the media knows better. Not to mention how "racist" would it be to question a POC?

Come on man!!! LOL...

Privilege comes with, well, privilege!!!

wilmwolf80 said:

---

If Tiger's legacy is intact, I think Phil will be ok.

---

LOL, yeah, he most certainly resurrected his image. Again, its what we do in America. We want our heroes to be "white cowboy hate" type, and will allow them to recover.

I still think Phil's image is much more negative within the golf media community than it is to general Joe Public.

Two, Tiger has been greatly benefitted by two things:
1) his personality has certainly softened and the images with his kids have helped with that.
2) his accident, and attempted recovery. No matter how strong you are, you are not immune to that, and people recognize and appreciate recovery.

I think if Phil finds the right opportunities to be humble, he'll be fine.

BBW12OG said:

---

jadawson said:

---

wilmwolf80 said:

---

If Tiger's legacy is intact, I think Phil will be ok.

---

I agree that i think his legacy will most likely be fine, but it is key to distinguish that Tiger 1) had time to rehab his image on the course as his transgressions didn't occur at the twilight of his career, and 2) Tiger never had the entirety of the golf media throwing snide remarks his way during broadcasts and weekly articles for months on end like Phil has.

---

Wonder why???? Between the Nike/Disney association the media knows better. Not to mention how "racist" would it be to question a POC?

Come on man!!! LOL...

Privilege comes with, well, privilege!!!

---

I think it has a lot more to do with the fact that Tiger's actions did nothing to harm the game of golf in the eyes of the media/fans. There is no reason for the media to take shots at him during a golf broadcast when what he did wrong had nothing to do with golf.

Phil's actions (as the posterboy for the LIV tour, all the heat got shoved onto him) in the eyes of the media were a direct threat to their jobs/livelihood/game of golf and they got defensive and probably felt pressure indirectly or even directly due to their pre-existing relationships with the PGA tour.

I dont think it had anything to do with the color of either of their skin.

jadawson said:

---

BBW12OG said:

---

jadawson said:

---

wilmwolf80 said:

---

If Tiger's legacy is intact, I think Phil will be ok.

---

I agree that i think his legacy will most likely be fine, but it is key to distinguish that Tiger 1) had time to rehab his image on the course as his transgressions didn't occur at the twilight of his career, and 2) Tiger never had the entirety of the golf media throwing snide remarks his way during broadcasts and weekly articles for months on end like Phil has.

---

Wonder why???? Between the Nike/Disney association the media knows better. Not to mention how "racist" would it be to question a POC?

Come on man!!! LOL...

Privilege comes with, well, privilege!!!

---

I think it has a lot more to do with the fact that Tiger's actions did nothing to harm the game of golf in the eyes of the media/fans. There is no reason for the media to take shots at him during a golf broadcast when what he did wrong had nothing to do with golf.

Phil's actions (as the posterboy for the LIV tour, all the heat got shoved onto him) in the eyes of the media were a direct threat to their jobs/livelihood/game of golf and they got defensive and probably felt pressure indirectly or even directly due to their pre-existing relationships with the PGA tour.

I dont think it had anything to do with the color of either of their skin.

---

That's the good thing about opinions. And I respect yours.

But, I've seen over the years a different story. If Tiger was a straight, white, Christian male he would have been the lead story on every MSM network for years. Especially after the affairs came out... 20/20 would have scoured every Bennigan's within 500 miles of every tournament he entered!

Not to mention the night his ex pummeled his car with a 9-iron! Drugs, infidelity and a mega-star. Why didn't the media do more to sensationalize that? Well... it's pretty damn obvious.

It's just like with everything else.... the only "mass shooters" that matter are the white ones. The only stories they cover are when white men are the criminals. FACT.






You can believe that or not.

DrummerboyWolf said:

---

Phil was right about everything. Even Rory had to admit it.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/pga-tours-radical-change-big-names-will-play-more-often-for-more-money-164706583.html

---

Phil was most definitely not right about everything. IIRC he claimed the tour was sitting on $2 Billion dollar media rights war chest and not using it. That is simply made up and not true.

This extra money the tour is going to throw to the top players and increase the purses isn't even money they have in their possession yet. They are just banking on sponsors and tv money to go up with these elevated events.

I don't recall Phil's main pitch being the top players should play together more often. His main beef was always the tour's media rights restrictions.

jadawson said:

---

BBW12OG said:

---

jadawson said:

---

wilmwolf80 said:

---

If Tiger's legacy is intact, I think Phil will be ok.

---

I agree that i think his legacy will most likely be fine, but it is key to distinguish that Tiger 1) had time to rehab his image on the course as his transgressions didn't occur at the twilight of his career, and 2) Tiger never had the entirety of the golf media throwing snide remarks his way during broadcasts and weekly articles for months on end like Phil has.

---

Wonder why???? Between the Nike/Disney association the media knows better. Not to mention how "racist" would it be to question a POC?

Come on man!!! LOL...

Privilege comes with, well, privilege!!!

---

I think it has a lot more to do with the fact that Tiger's actions did nothing to harm the game of golf in the eyes of the media/fans. There is no reason for the media to take shots at him during a golf broadcast when what he did wrong had nothing to do with golf.

Phil's actions (as the posterboy for the LIV tour, all the heat got shoved onto him) in the eyes of the media were a direct threat to their jobs/livelihood/game of golf and they got defensive and probably felt pressure indirectly or even directly due to their pre-existing relationships with the PGA tour.

I dont think it had anything to do with the color of either of their skin.

---

Yeah, the skin color argument is silly, but consider the source.

I do agree the media has taken a personal stake in this, way more than they should. But I also think they are being opportunistic - meaning, I think many in the media disliked Phil because he gave them a hard time, and was always trying to prove he was the smartest guy in the room. So now they can stick it to him.

Packchem91 said:

---

jadawson said:

---

BBW12OG said:

---

jadawson said:

---

wilmwolf80 said:

---

If Tiger's legacy is intact, I think Phil will be ok.

---

I agree that i think his legacy will most likely be fine, but it is key to distinguish that Tiger 1) had time to rehab his image on the course as his transgressions didn't occur at the twilight of his career, and 2) Tiger never had the entirety of the golf media throwing snide remarks his way during broadcasts and weekly articles for months on end like Phil has.

---

Wonder why???? Between the Nike/Disney association the media knows better. Not to mention how "racist" would it be to question a POC?

Come on man!!! LOL...

Privilege comes with, well, privilege!!!

---

I think it has a lot more to do with the fact that Tiger's actions did nothing to harm the game of golf in the eyes of the media/fans. There is no reason for the media to take shots at him during a golf broadcast when what he did wrong had nothing to do with golf.

Phil's actions (as the posterboy for the LIV tour, all the heat got shoved onto him) in the eyes of the media were a direct threat to their jobs/livelihood/game of golf and they got defensive and probably felt pressure indirectly or even directly due to their pre-existing relationships with the PGA tour.

I dont think it had anything to do with the color of either of their skin.

---

Yeah, the skin color argument is silly, but consider the source.

I do agree the media has taken a personal stake in this, way more than they should. But I also think they are being opportunistic - meaning, I think many in the media disliked Phil because he gave them a hard time, and was always trying to prove he was the smartest guy in the room. So now they can stick it to him.

---

Ha Ha!! Way to chime in... anytime you disagree with me it's a damn good day.

Consider the source... LMAO.... go flag a post.

910wolf said:

---

DrummerboyWolf said:

---

Phil was right about everything. Even Rory had to admit it.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/pga-tours-radical-change-big-names-will-play-more-often-for-more-money-164706583.html

---

Phil was most definitely not right about everything. IIRC he claimed the tour was sitting on $2 Billion dollar media rights war chest and not using it. That is simply made up and not true.

This extra money the tour is going to throw to the top players and increase the purses isn't even money they have in their possession yet. They are just banking on sponsors and tv money to go up with these elevated events.

I don't recall Phil's main pitch being the top players should play together more often. His main beef was always the tour's media rights restrictions.

---

Phil has been against the Fall Season since it began. They changed that. Yes his big thing in the last year was the media rights, but if you have followed him then the other stuff was there too. He has campaigned for more "headline events" with the top players. I don't know how much Monahan makes, but I have heard it's $15 million a year. Why should a company that gets non-profit status as the PGA Tour does and pay it's CEO that much. There is money there that the Tour has had in my opinion.

wilmwolf80 said:

---

If Tiger's legacy is intact, I think Phil will be ok.

---

No doubt about it. He has always been the "Peoples Champ."

PackFansXL said:

---

I thought all posts this long were required to include MARXISM

---

Your team... not mine.

PackFansXL said:

---

I thought all posts this long were required to include MARXISM

---

I couldn't read all of Storms novel (everyone knows Tiger is the best golfer at least over the last 40 years).

But you, my Union County co-native, have indeed injected levity into the thread

Packchem91 said:

---

jadawson said:

---

BBW12OG said:

---

jadawson said:

---

wilmwolf80 said:

---

If Tiger's legacy is intact, I think Phil will be ok.

---

I agree that i think his legacy will most likely be fine, but it is key to distinguish that Tiger 1) had time to rehab his image on the course as his transgressions didn't occur at the twilight of his career, and 2) Tiger never had the entirety of the golf media throwing snide remarks his way during broadcasts and weekly articles for months on end like Phil has.

---

Wonder why???? Between the Nike/Disney association the media knows better. Not to mention how "racist" would it be to question a POC?

Come on man!!! LOL...

Privilege comes with, well, privilege!!!

---

I think it has a lot more to do with the fact that Tiger's actions did nothing to harm the game of golf in the eyes of the media/fans. There is no reason for the media to take shots at him during a golf broadcast when what he did wrong had nothing to do with golf.

Phil's actions (as the posterboy for the LIV tour, all the heat got shoved onto him) in the eyes of the media were a direct threat to their jobs/livelihood/game of golf and they got defensive and probably felt pressure indirectly or even directly due to their pre-existing relationships with the PGA tour.

I dont think it had anything to do with the color of either of their skin.

---

Yeah, the skin color argument is silly, but consider the source.

I do agree the media has taken a personal stake in this, way more than they should. But I also think they are being opportunistic - meaning, I think many in the media disliked Phil because he gave them a hard time, and was always trying to prove he was the smartest guy in the room. So now they can stick it to him.

---

I think you are naive, Chem, if you think attributes, like Skin Color, doesn't shape the news cycle.

That said, I have always enjoyed watching Tiger play. I did go though a time when I didn't pull for him; however, that was kind of like the UNC thing…. Everybody pulls for them and I don't. After his marital struggles, I became a huge fan, because I like to see a person succeed after struggles.

Also, tell me of a person that makes watching any sport more exciting than Tiger. He just brings a level excitement that is hard to compare.

DrummerboyWolf said:

---

910wolf said:

---

DrummerboyWolf said:

---

Phil was right about everything. Even Rory had to admit it.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/pga-tours-radical-change-big-names-will-play-more-often-for-more-money-164706583.html

---

Phil was most definitely not right about everything. IIRC he claimed the tour was sitting on $2 Billion dollar media rights war chest and not using it. That is simply made up and not true.

This extra money the tour is going to throw to the top players and increase the purses isn't even money they have in their possession yet. They are just banking on sponsors and tv money to go up with these elevated events.

I don't recall Phil's main pitch being the top players should play together more often. His main beef was always the tour's media rights restrictions.

---

Phil has been against the Fall Season since it began. They changed that. Yes his big thing in the last year was the media rights, but if you have followed him then the other stuff was there too. He has campaigned for more "headline events" with the top players. I don't know how much Monahan makes, but I have heard it's $15 million a year. Why should a company that gets non-profit status as the PGA Tour does and pay it's CEO that much. There is money there that the Tour has had in my opinion.

---

Ok. Tons of players hated the Fall Schedule and would be good with more big money events. Phil was far from being on an island in that regard and even farther from "being right about everything".

Don't let your fandom cloud your judgement on what Phil has done. Phil was my favorite player during his prime but I hate that he was the ringleader for fracturing the professional golf world.

Instead of using his status to be a leader and get all of the top players together to get on the same page and push for the change he wanted (like we just saw Rory and Tiger do) he **** talked the Tour and ran off to the highest bidder.

910wolf said:

---

DrummerboyWolf said:

---

910wolf said:

---

DrummerboyWolf said:

---

Phil was right about everything. Even Rory had to admit it.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/pga-tours-radical-change-big-names-will-play-more-often-for-more-money-164706583.html

---

Phil was most definitely not right about everything. IIRC he claimed the tour was sitting on $2 Billion dollar media rights war chest and not using it. That is simply made up and not true.

This extra money the tour is going to throw to the top players and increase the purses isn't even money they have in their possession yet. They are just banking on sponsors and tv money to go up with these elevated events.

I don't recall Phil's main pitch being the top players should play together more often. His main beef was always the tour's media rights restrictions.

---

Phil has been against the Fall Season since it began. They changed that. Yes his big thing in the last year was the media rights, but if you have followed him then the other stuff was there too. He has campaigned for more "headline events" with the top players. I don't know how much Monahan makes, but I have heard it's $15 million a year. Why should a company that gets non-profit status as the PGA Tour does and pay it's CEO that much. There is money there that the Tour has had in my opinion.

---

Ok. Tons of players hated the Fall Schedule and would be good with more big money events. Phil was far from being on an island in that regard and even farther from "being right about everything".

Don't let your fandom cloud your judgement on what Phil has done. Phil was my favorite player during his prime but I hate that he was the ringleader for fracturing the professional golf world.

Instead of using his status to be a leader and get all of the top players together to get on the same page and push for the change he wanted (like we just saw Rory and Tiger do) he **** talked the Tour and ran off to the highest bidder.

---

You don't know what he did behind the scenes before he left. Which organization is running scared right now and changing everything they do. It's not LIV. Jordan Speith even said the other day that most likely the changes the PGA Tour is announcing would not have happened if LIV had not come around. The PGA Tour had a chance to work this out, but they chose to turn their nose up because they thought their poop didn't stink. Now they are in panic mode. You may not like how Phil did things and that is fine. He affected change that is actually happening on the PGA Tour. If Cam Smith defects to LIV then that will be another hit for the PGA Tour. Most reports are saying he is gone after this weekend. We shall see.

Rory and Tiger have been subpoenaed in the Patrick Reed Lawsuit to see if they collaborated with the PGA Tour at the meeting last week and may have broken anti trust laws. So they may not be as pure as you think they are. Apparently both will give depositions in September.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/golf/2022/08/25/tiger-woods-rory-mcilroy-subpoenaed-liv-golf-civil-war-intensifies/

DrummerboyWolf said:

---

910wolf said:

---

DrummerboyWolf said:

---

910wolf said:

---

DrummerboyWolf said:

---

Phil was right about everything. Even Rory had to admit it.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/pga-tours-radical-change-big-names-will-play-more-often-for-more-money-164706583.html

---

Phil was most definitely not right about everything. IIRC he claimed the tour was sitting on $2 Billion dollar media rights war chest and not using it. That is simply made up and not true.

This extra money the tour is going to throw to the top players and increase the purses isn't even money they have in their possession yet. They are just banking on sponsors and tv money to go up with these elevated events.

I don't recall Phil's main pitch being the top players should play together more often. His main beef was always the tour's media rights restrictions.

---

Phil has been against the Fall Season since it began. They changed that. Yes his big thing in the last year was the media rights, but if you have followed him then the other stuff was there too. He has campaigned for more "headline events" with the top players. I don't know how much Monahan makes, but I have heard it's $15 million a year. Why should a company that gets non-profit status as the PGA Tour does and pay it's CEO that much. There is money there that the Tour has had in my opinion.

---

Ok. Tons of players hated the Fall Schedule and would be good with more big money events. Phil was far from being on an island in that regard and even farther from "being right about everything".

Don't let your fandom cloud your judgement on what Phil has done. Phil was my favorite player during his prime but I hate that he was the ringleader for fracturing the professional golf world.

Instead of using his status to be a leader and get all of the top players together to get on the same page and push for the change he wanted (like we just saw Rory and Tiger do) he **** talked the Tour and ran off to the highest bidder.

---

You don't know what he did behind the scenes before he left. Which organization is running scared right now and changing everything they do. It's not LIV. Jordan Speith even said the other day that most likely the changes the PGA Tour is announcing would not have happened if LIV had not come around. The PGA Tour had a chance to work this out, but they chose to turn their nose up because they thought their poop didn't stink. Now they are in panic mode. You may not like how Phil did things and that is fine. He affected change that is actually happening on the PGA Tour. If Cam Smith defects to LIV then that will be another hit for the PGA Tour. Most reports are saying he is gone after this weekend. We shall see.

Rory and Tiger have been subpoenaed in the Patrick Reed Lawsuit to see if they collaborated with the PGA Tour at the meeting last week and may have broken anti trust laws. So they may not be as pure as you think they are. Apparently both will give depositions in September.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/golf/2022/08/25/tiger-woods-rory-mcilroy-subpoenaed-liv-golf-civil-war-intensifies/

---

Lot of different ways to take that response, I'll try to avoid this becoming too much back of forth of long posts.

Sure, I don't know for a fact if Phil tried to get all the top players together behind scenes, but you also don't know that he did try. And with all of Phil's talk of "leveraging the tour", I'm sure if he did organize such a plan and meeting collectively he would have had his agent or someone leak it to the media.

Now, of course these changes are coming more quickly because of LIV. I don't think anyone is denying that fact. Historically, purses have always gone up and they were/are going to continue going up regardless of LIV being formed. It took the competition for Tiger and Rory to realize the top players have more power collectively than giving off opinions as individuals. If Phil, or someone else would have realized that from the start, than maybe all this could have been avoided.

I don't understand folks cheering on LIV and thinking it's a good thing. It's just diluting the competition of professional golf. I don't think we would be celebrating Aaron Rodgers, Julio Jones, Josh Allen, Tyreke Hill, etc. leaving the NFL and playing in a high money arena league being broadcast on YouTube.

And finally, just LOL at bringing up Patrick Reed as some type of rebuttal. The same guy that is suing the golf channel for $750 million for calling him out for cheating at golf? Yeah I'm sure Tiger and Rory are shaking in their boots over that.

caryking said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

jadawson said:

---

BBW12OG said:

---

jadawson said:

---

wilmwolf80 said:

---

If Tiger's legacy is intact, I think Phil will be ok.

---

I agree that i think his legacy will most likely be fine, but it is key to distinguish that Tiger 1) had time to rehab his image on the course as his transgressions didn't occur at the twilight of his career, and 2) Tiger never had the entirety of the golf media throwing snide remarks his way during broadcasts and weekly articles for months on end like Phil has.

---

Wonder why???? Between the Nike/Disney association the media knows better. Not to mention how "racist" would it be to question a POC?

Come on man!!! LOL...

Privilege comes with, well, privilege!!!

---

I think it has a lot more to do with the fact that Tiger's actions did nothing to harm the game of golf in the eyes of the media/fans. There is no reason for the media to take shots at him during a golf broadcast when what he did wrong had nothing to do with golf.

Phil's actions (as the posterboy for the LIV tour, all the heat got shoved onto him) in the eyes of the media were a direct threat to their jobs/livelihood/game of golf and they got defensive and probably felt pressure indirectly or even directly due to their pre-existing relationships with the PGA tour.

I dont think it had anything to do with the color of either of their skin.

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Yeah, the skin color argument is silly, but consider the source.

I do agree the media has taken a personal stake in this, way more than they should. But I also think they are being opportunistic - meaning, I think many in the media disliked Phil because he gave them a hard time, and was always trying to prove he was the smartest guy in the room. So now they can stick it to him.

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I think you are naive, Chem, if you think attributes, like Skin Color, doesn't shape the news cycle.

That said, I have always enjoyed watching Tiger play. I did go though a time when I didn't pull for him; however, that was kind of like the UNC thing…. Everybody pulls for them and I don't. After his marital struggles, I became a huge fan, because I like to see a person succeed after struggles.

Also, tell me of a person that makes watching any sport more exciting than Tiger. He just brings a level excitement that is hard to compare.

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Thats not what I said. I realize it affects overall news cycles. I wasn't making a generality, I was speaking specifically to the Tiger vs Phil drama about how their respective "falls" were handled.
That was not based on color.

As for Tiger -- I'm in the same cycle -- I was not a fan for a long time, though awed by his skill. I still think his win % in his prime is the most impressive "dominance" we've seen in sports in our lives.

And now, like many, I'm pulling for him --- again, we Americans love resurrection stories. And I think Phil can have one -- but he's going to have to work at it, and as somoene else posted, he may not have "great golf after his downfall" to dig him out of his hole as much as Tiger did.

^BTW, I think Tiger is the athlete I think of most who has transformed skin color in this country. Muhammed Ali did it at WW level and for a number of reasons, but that was mostly before I was old enough to understand.

But Tiger did it in a sport that was most certainly stacked against him, but at this point in his career arc, do people even look at him as black or white? I know some do -- as we see on this board, some have to inject color into every single topic -- but as a general statement, I think people just look at him as "the greatest golfer they've ever seen", with all apologies to Jack and some of the other greats.

He shows ups -- any event takes on a larger than life aura....especially after his most recent injury and recovery.
His peers clearly worship the ground he walks on -- most of the young players have patterned their development after him.

I know he went thru a patch with his sponsors after his infidelities, but now....which sponsor would not want an image of him or he and his son, etc on their brand?

910wolf said:

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DrummerboyWolf said:

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910wolf said:

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DrummerboyWolf said:

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910wolf said:

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DrummerboyWolf said:

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Phil was right about everything. Even Rory had to admit it.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/pga-tours-radical-change-big-names-will-play-more-often-for-more-money-164706583.html

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Phil was most definitely not right about everything. IIRC he claimed the tour was sitting on $2 Billion dollar media rights war chest and not using it. That is simply made up and not true.

This extra money the tour is going to throw to the top players and increase the purses isn't even money they have in their possession yet. They are just banking on sponsors and tv money to go up with these elevated events.

I don't recall Phil's main pitch being the top players should play together more often. His main beef was always the tour's media rights restrictions.

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Phil has been against the Fall Season since it began. They changed that. Yes his big thing in the last year was the media rights, but if you have followed him then the other stuff was there too. He has campaigned for more "headline events" with the top players. I don't know how much Monahan makes, but I have heard it's $15 million a year. Why should a company that gets non-profit status as the PGA Tour does and pay it's CEO that much. There is money there that the Tour has had in my opinion.

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Ok. Tons of players hated the Fall Schedule and would be good with more big money events. Phil was far from being on an island in that regard and even farther from "being right about everything".

Don't let your fandom cloud your judgement on what Phil has done. Phil was my favorite player during his prime but I hate that he was the ringleader for fracturing the professional golf world.

Instead of using his status to be a leader and get all of the top players together to get on the same page and push for the change he wanted (like we just saw Rory and Tiger do) he **** talked the Tour and ran off to the highest bidder.

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You don't know what he did behind the scenes before he left. Which organization is running scared right now and changing everything they do. It's not LIV. Jordan Speith even said the other day that most likely the changes the PGA Tour is announcing would not have happened if LIV had not come around. The PGA Tour had a chance to work this out, but they chose to turn their nose up because they thought their poop didn't stink. Now they are in panic mode. You may not like how Phil did things and that is fine. He affected change that is actually happening on the PGA Tour. If Cam Smith defects to LIV then that will be another hit for the PGA Tour. Most reports are saying he is gone after this weekend. We shall see.

Rory and Tiger have been subpoenaed in the Patrick Reed Lawsuit to see if they collaborated with the PGA Tour at the meeting last week and may have broken anti trust laws. So they may not be as pure as you think they are. Apparently both will give depositions in September.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/golf/2022/08/25/tiger-woods-rory-mcilroy-subpoenaed-liv-golf-civil-war-intensifies/

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Lot of different ways to take that response, I'll try to avoid this becoming too much back of forth of long posts.

Sure, I don't know for a fact if Phil tried to get all the top players together behind scenes, but you also don't know that he did try. And with all of Phil's talk of "leveraging the tour", I'm sure if he did organize such a plan and meeting collectively he would have had his agent or someone leak it to the media.

Now, of course these changes are coming more quickly because of LIV. I don't think anyone is denying that fact. Historically, purses have always gone up and they were/are going to continue going up regardless of LIV being formed. It took the competition for Tiger and Rory to realize the top players have more power collectively than giving off opinions as individuals. If Phil, or someone else would have realized that from the start, than maybe all this could have been avoided.

I don't understand folks cheering on LIV and thinking it's a good thing. It's just diluting the competition of professional golf. I don't think we would be celebrating Aaron Rodgers, Julio Jones, Josh Allen, Tyreke Hill, etc. leaving the NFL and playing in a high money arena league being broadcast on YouTube.

And finally, just LOL at bringing up Patrick Reed as some type of rebuttal. The same guy that is suing the golf channel for $750 million for calling him out for cheating at golf? Yeah I'm sure Tiger and Rory are shaking in their boots over that.

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I believe in Freedom. The players should be able to choose where they play. Phil has earned a lifetime membership on the PGA Tour. He should be able to play any time he wants in any country. Dustin Johnson would have been the same had he completed his 15 year stint. Everybody wants to blame Phil for leaving, but lots of other great golfers left too. So he is not the only one "fracturing professional golf." The PGA Tour could have talked with LIV and worked it out so they are responsible too.

You may not have been around when the NFL and the AFL were having their battles. It was about money then too. The NFL finally relented and merged. No matter what you think about the Saudi's, they are not going to run out of money. Will there be some kind of merger? I have no idea. I just know that the average age of people watching the PGA tour is 64. Their audience is aging and dying out and they better start attracting a younger audience. I do know that I will not watch another PGA sponsored event until Phil, one of the best players ever on the PGA Tour is reinstated. I have subscribed to PGA tour live for the last several years. Never again.

You obviously didn't read the article about their depositions. They are going to have to answer some tough questions and it's not concerning Patrick Reed.

All the Phil haters can carry on. He won't care. I won't be responding anymore on this thread.

Tour Championship has been pretty entertaining so far. Lots of action yesterday if you were lucky enough to watch it.

Now, just for ****s and giggles... besides Cam Smith, who do you expect any of the "other 7 names" will be? This is meant to be fun.

I'll opine on the following:

Paul Casey
Adam Scott

any other guesses, knows, etc.?

TheStorm said:

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Tour Championship has been pretty entertaining so far. Lots of action yesterday if you were lucky enough to watch it.

Now, just for ****s and giggles... besides Cam Smith, who do you expect any of the "other 7 names" will be? This is meant to be fun.

I'll opine on the following:

Paul Casey
Adam Scott

any other guesses, knows, etc.?

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Paul Casey already played a LIV event. Names rumored:

Cam Smith
Marc Leishman
Cam Tringale
Harold Varner
Anirban Lahiri

Joaquin Neiman ?
Cameron Young ???

Sources: Open champ Cameron Smith, Harold Varner III, several other PGA Tour players expected to join LIV Golf

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/34471522/sources-open-champion-cameron-smith-marc-leishman-harold-varner-iii-expected-join-liv-golf-tour

910wolf said:

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TheStorm said:

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Tour Championship has been pretty entertaining so far. Lots of action yesterday if you were lucky enough to watch it.

Now, just for ****s and giggles... besides Cam Smith, who do you expect any of the "other 7 names" will be? This is meant to be fun.

I'll opine on the following:

Paul Casey
Adam Scott

any other guesses, knows, etc.?

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Paul Casey already played a LIV event. Names rumored:

Cam Smith
Marc Leishman
Cam Tringale
Harold Varner
Anirban Lahiri

Joaquin Neiman ?
Cameron Young ???

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You seem to be pretty dialed in as to what is going on?