Bell Tower Grey said:

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Packchem91 said:

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caryking said:

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Somebody, tell me the difference between: PGA, Nascar, and the NCAA.

They represent different. bodies; however, they are all about the same, in my eyes.

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huh? Are you referring to how they are managed?

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Not quite sure myself what you're asking for. I will say the common denominator that brought all of them down so far is television, and the money it has brought them. They all sacrificed their souls for the love of television money. ,

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I get that in NASCAR. But how so for PGA? Clearly, they followed the TV money, but that helped them to get the best fields in the world. NASCAR abandoned its roots....I"m not sure you can say that for PGA? They still play in most of the same regions as always, still rotate the majors are the time-tested courses (with the occasional exception like Valhalla or Chambers Bay.
I think they are just getting outfoxed by oil money that is unrivaled?

No doubt they are getting outbid, money wise, by the Saudis. My thing is, look at almost all the guys on tour - cookie cutter "Ken" of Barbie and Ken types for the most part. Like there is some type of unwritten rule of "you have to be like this: A. B. C. etc"

There's very little personality and flair anymore, and God forbid that anyone speaks out against the establshment - look at what's happening now.

I used to enjoy watching and attending pga events, but now, not so much. I'll watch the majors, and still check tourney leaderboards on the weekend, but imho it's different than before. Too sterilized, programmed. IDK.

I watch every Saturday and Sunday afternoon (and all four rounds of every major) unless I've got an activity conflict... and if I get to flip back and forth 100 times on Sunday afternoon between the golf and a race - then that's even better!

So many different people can win in any given week now that it effectively "waters down" the importance of the "big name" - especially in today's tour (in my opinion anyway).

In my lifetime - other than "maybe" Jack (and not even him if I'm being honest) - there's only been one individual that was ever considered the favorite to win anytime and everytime that he teed it up... and we all know who that was.

From the 1997 Masters through the 2008 US Open (46 Majors)... even when he was the hottest thing on Planet Earth he was getting beat by somebody else more than twice as many times as he won. Thus my point.

I don't think it matters "exactly" who from the PGA Tour decides to leave and take the free money either. Somebody else will always fill that void. I mean look at how Koepka was automatically deified when he won 4 of 11 majors and was the most feared player in the World, and was expected to dominate for years to come still? What the hell happened to that? One word. GOLF.

The other tour will continue for as long as those funding it, want it to (which could be forever, because this is just chump change to them)... AND I HOPE IT SUCCEEDS!*

*Heck, I even hope that the USFL succeeds, but I still don't care anything about watching any of it...

The LIV Golf Invitational Series announced Saturday that it has signed its ninth major winner, as Patrick Reed has agreed to join the new circuit.

Bell Tower Grey said:

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Packchem91 said:

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caryking said:

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Somebody, tell me the difference between: PGA, Nascar, and the NCAA.

They represent different. bodies; however, they are all about the same, in my eyes.

---

huh? Are you referring to how they are managed?

---

Not quite sure myself what you're asking for. I will say the common denominator that brought all of them down so far is television, and the money it has brought them. They all sacrificed their souls for the love of television money.

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They are all big money non-profits (I think) that will ultimately die, I hope. They have all gone woke, to some degree, and have left the mainstream viewer. Additionally, they have made rules dictate so much of the sport they represent and have lost the free spirit competition I wish we had.

Bell Tower Grey said:

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No doubt they are getting outbid, money wise, by the Saudis. My thing is, look at almost all the guys on tour - cookie cutter "Ken" of Barbie and Ken types for the most part. Like there is some type of unwritten rule of "you have to be like this: A. B. C. etc"

There's very little personality and flair anymore, and God forbid that anyone speaks out against the establshment - look at what's happening now.

I used to enjoy watching and attending pga events, but now, not so much. I'll watch the majors, and still check tourney leaderboards on the weekend, but imho it's different than before. Too sterilized, programmed. IDK.

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I think golf lends itself much more to the cookie cutter brand players. You're not going to typically be seeing the kid who was the son of a mechanic who would just as soon fight as play golf.
I'd argue Phil was one of those guys with flair. A lot of guys with some kind of flair are ones people dont like -- like Ian Poulter or even Dechambeau and Reed -- none of those guys fit the mold, but they also don't have many fans.

There are some guys who come across as incredibly boring, no doubt....but one thing i like about PGA is that usually the guys being interviewed are pretty good.

TheStorm said:

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I watch every Saturday and Sunday afternoon (and all four rounds of every major) unless I've got an activity conflict... and if I get to flip back and forth 100 times on Sunday afternoon between the golf and a race - then that's even better!

So many different people can win in any given week now that it effectively "waters down" the importance of the "big name" - especially in today's tour (in my opinion anyway).

In my lifetime - other than "maybe" Jack (and not even him if I'm being honest) - there's only been one individual that was ever considered the favorite to win anytime and everytime that he teed it up... and we all know who that was.

From the 1997 Masters through the 2008 US Open (46 Majors)... even when he was the hottest thing on Planet Earth he was getting beat by somebody else more than twice as many times as he won. Thus my point.

I don't think it matters "exactly" who from the PGA Tour decides to leave and take the free money either. Somebody else will always fill that void. I mean look at how Koepka was automatically deified when he won 4 of 11 majors and was the most feared player in the World, and was expected to dominate for years to come still? What the hell happened to that? One word. GOLF.

The other tour will continue for as long as those funding it, want it to (which could be forever, because this is just chump change to them)... AND I HOPE IT SUCCEEDS!*

*Heck, I even hope that the USFL succeeds, but I still don't care anything about watching any of it...

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I pretty much agree with everything except hoping LIV succeeds. But my feelings are not because of politics, but because I do want the best players on the PGA Tour. Tell you what though...the $$$ the guys are winning this week, even if they stunk, is going to be eye-opening and will lead to more "average" players will jump.

I agree though that the depth of players today is impressive, but despite 7-8 guys all looking at times like they could be "that guy", none of them have sustained. It makes what Tiger did -- and the duration -- even more impressive.

ETA: Re Koepka - what is amazing is that he has rarely done well in regular tour stops....but excels at the majors. But I think his issue, as with some of the other bulked up huge swingers --- can their bodies hold up.

ETA2: And I love Live From. I think its great TV as long as Brandel is not up on a soap box. Unfortunately this week, they'll have to build him several soap boxes to stand on...

caryking said:

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Bell Tower Grey said:

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Packchem91 said:

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caryking said:

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Somebody, tell me the difference between: PGA, Nascar, and the NCAA.

They represent different. bodies; however, they are all about the same, in my eyes.

---

huh? Are you referring to how they are managed?

---

Not quite sure myself what you're asking for. I will say the common denominator that brought all of them down so far is television, and the money it has brought them. They all sacrificed their souls for the love of television money.

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They are all big money non-profits (I think) that will ultimately die, I hope. They have all gone woke, to some degree, and have left the mainstream viewer. Additionally, they have made rules dictate so much of the sport they represent and have lost the free spirit competition I wish we had.

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How has PGA gone woke? I admit to not following the politics of the sport, but what makes it woke?

To me, its the ultimate "you get what you deserve" sport.
And PGA has gained viewers over the years. Now granted, many were Tiger fans who are casual golf fans and don't tune in when he's not playing, but the availability of action on TV is better than it has ever been

BTW, also, what is the free spirit competition in PGA you are looking for?

I actually really like the cookie cutter players. Love Spieth, JT, Rory, Morikawa. That said I love Phil, Daly, Bubba.
Golf is absolutely a game of controlled emotion. They all express it and show anger, but it is controlled. I don't think these guys are robots at all. Spieth used to get dogged for blaming his caddy for misclubbing him. JT drops F bombs every time the camera is on him. Few athletes strut like Rory, or DJ for that matter, strut.

I love Colin because he reminds me of one of my best friends in my younger years.

I hope these guys are successful on the LIV tour because I really like some of them. Also think it's awesome for some of the no name guys to sneak into these events and make some bank while they can.

I love the majors. Mostly all I watch. Hopefully these guys will be able to play in the majors. Regardless, I think LIV is short term, but hope the guys make all they can while they can.

packgrad said:

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I actually really like the cookie cutter players. Love Spieth, JT, Rory, Morikawa. That said I love Phil, Daly, Bubba.
Golf is absolutely a game of controlled emotion. They all express it and show anger, but it is controlled. I don't think these guys are robots at all. Spieth used to get dogged for blaming his caddy for misclubbing him. JT drops F bombs every time the camera is on him. Few athletes strut like Rory, or DJ for that matter, strut.

I love Colin because he reminds me of one of my best friends in my younger year
I hope these guys are successful on the LIV tour because I really like some of them. Also think it's awesome for some of the no name guys to sneak into these events and make some bank while they can.

I love the majors. Mostly all I watch. Hopefully these guys will be able to play in the majors. Regardless, I think LIV is short term, but hope the guys make all they can while they can.

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maybe we should discuss sports more and we'd get along.....agree pretty much across the board here.
Not the biggest Speith fan, but my family loves him. He is entertaining to watch.
Rory catches a lot of heat, because he's too talented not to win more...but he may be the single best interviewee in sports. Genuine, thoughtful answers about any topic.
Morikawa, much more so than guys like Dechambeau and Koepka, looks like a guy who could thrive for decades (though its such a mental sport, you never know when a guy will go off the rails, like Speith did and Fowler is doing now)

Personally, I'm a fan of Rory, Fowler, Finau, and Varner (great story of perseverance and earning it at Gaston CC) --- all those guys just seem like genuinely nice people, whom are easy to pull for.
Really becoming a fan of Max Homa too -- guy can play, and is a hoot on social media.

What will be interesting to see about LIV -- how does the PGA Tour respond when (if) those guys want to come back. What stinks is, all the discussion tihs week about LIV....the Canadian Open, which has hardly been mentioned, has a leaderboard of:
Finau, Rory, JT, and Sam Burns (one of the hottest players on Tour).....many a major would love to have that group heading to Sunday.

looks like a guy who could thrive for decades (though its such a mental sport, you never know when a guy will go off the rails, like Speith did and Fowler is doing now)

David Duval is another to add to that list. Granted, he has physical injuries that contributed to his drop off, but he seemed to have lost his mental focus for the game.

Guys who don't have big endorsement deals on PGA Tour will be taking notice

Hennie du Plessis made more money ($2.1M) with his runner-up finish at the LIV event this week than 213 of 253 PGA Tour players have made so far this season (average number of starts: 15).

That's a problem.

— Kyle Porter (@KylePorterCBS) June 11, 2022

Listed below is the total payout from winner to last place. Amounts are staggering, and they will get noticed.

One of the questions I have though, is will that income will be taxed if the players are US citizens? I'd imagine the IRS will figure out a way, if they don't already have some type of taxable foreign income bracket in place.


Full breakdown of prize money and payouts from the LIV Golf Event in London

Win: $4,000,000 - Charl Schwartzel
2: $2,125,000 - Hennie Du Plessis
T3: $1,500,000 - Branden Grace, Peter Uihlein
5: $975,000 - Sam Horsfield
T6: $800,000 - Oliver Bekker, Adrian Otaegui
8: $625,000 - Dustin Johnson
9: $580,000 - Talor Gooch
T10: $560,000 - Graeme McDowell, Justin Harding, Louis Oosthuizen
T13: $360,000 - Pablo Larrazabal, Ryosuke Kino****a
T15: $250,000 - Martin Kaymer, Jinichiro Kozuma
T17: $232,000 - Richard Bland, JC Ritchie, Laurie Canter
T20: $200,000 - Ian Poulter, Scott Vincent
T22: $172,000 - Shaun Norris, Wade Orsmby, Sergio Garcia
T25: $166,000 - James Piot, Matt Jones, Ian Snyman, Phachara Khongwatmai
29: $158,000 - Lee Westwood
T30: $156,000 - Hudson Swafford, Viraj Madappa, Jediah Morgan
T33: $150,000 - Kevin Yuan, Phil Mickelson, Travis Smyth, Kevin Na, Chase Koepka
T38: $140,000 - Oliver Fisher, Blake Windred, David Puig, Hideto Tanihara, Ratchanon Chantananuwat
T43: $130,000 - Bernd Wiesberger, Sihwan Kim
45: $126,000 - Turk Pettit
46: $124,000 - Sadom Kaewkanjana
47: $122,000 - Itthipat Buranatanyarat
48: $120,000 - Andy Ogletree

Bell Tower Grey said:

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Listed below is the total payout from winner to last place. Amounts are staggering, and they will get noticed.

One of the questions I have though, is will that income will be taxed if the players are US citizens? I'd imagine the IRS will figure out a way, if they don't already have some type of taxable foreign income bracket in place.


Full breakdown of prize money and payouts from the LIV Golf Event in London

Win: $4,000,000 - Charl Schwartzel
2: $2,125,000 - Hennie Du Plessis
T3: $1,500,000 - Branden Grace, Peter Uihlein
5: $975,000 - Sam Horsfield
T6: $800,000 - Oliver Bekker, Adrian Otaegui
8: $625,000 - Dustin Johnson
9: $580,000 - Talor Gooch
T10: $560,000 - Graeme McDowell, Justin Harding, Louis Oosthuizen
T13: $360,000 - Pablo Larrazabal, Ryosuke Kino****a
T15: $250,000 - Martin Kaymer, Jinichiro Kozuma
T17: $232,000 - Richard Bland, JC Ritchie, Laurie Canter
T20: $200,000 - Ian Poulter, Scott Vincent
T22: $172,000 - Shaun Norris, Wade Orsmby, Sergio Garcia
T25: $166,000 - James Piot, Matt Jones, Ian Snyman, Phachara Khongwatmai
29: $158,000 - Lee Westwood
T30: $156,000 - Hudson Swafford, Viraj Madappa, Jediah Morgan
T33: $150,000 - Kevin Yuan, Phil Mickelson, Travis Smyth, Kevin Na, Chase Koepka
T38: $140,000 - Oliver Fisher, Blake Windred, David Puig, Hideto Tanihara, Ratchanon Chantananuwat
T43: $130,000 - Bernd Wiesberger, Sihwan Kim
45: $126,000 - Turk Pettit
46: $124,000 - Sadom Kaewkanjana
47: $122,000 - Itthipat Buranatanyarat
48: $120,000 - Andy Ogletree

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Schwartzel, Du Plessis, Grace, and Oosthuizen all won an additional $750,000 for the winning team. 2nd and 3rd place teams also won a bonus.

Bell Tower Grey said:

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looks like a guy who could thrive for decades (though its such a mental sport, you never know when a guy will go off the rails, like Speith did and Fowler is doing now)

David Duval is another to add to that list. Granted, he has physical injuries that contributed to his drop off, but he seemed to have lost his mental focus for the game.

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Great call. He is as one of those who transformed his body, amd it didn't work. Thinking of it, has that worked for anyone other than Tiger?
I guess Dechambeau did get the US Open. But it didn't seem to help Rory. Duvall went from frumpy champion to out of work fit guy. Others?

No one of note that I can remember. Duval is doing broadcast work, and is good at it imho, and just started playing some on the Seniors Tour.

Bell Tower Grey said:

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No one of note that I can remember. Duval is doing broadcast work, and is good at it imho, and just started playing some on the Seniors Tour.

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Yes, hes good on TV. I have not watched a minute of Seniors Tour in many years, so I have not kept up with which former Tour players have moved over.....I would not have imagined Duval being 50, but then, time has flown by and gotten many of us to that milestone.

espnradio Saturday
Marty and McGee
simulcast on SEC Network

had 3 guests talk about LIV tour
Taylor Zarzour, Sirius/XM PGA Tour Radio
Mark Schlabach, ESPN writer who has been covering LVI story
Curtis Strange, former pro golfer and current TV commentator

all 3 said it comes down to what Fred Ridley, Masters' chairman decides

comparison was made to Indy/CART split in open wheel racing
Tony George, Indy, and Roger Pendle, CART, met with Bill France, Jr, NASCAR president, as mediator. just the 3 of them.

after hours of George and Penske yelling at each other, they ask France why he had not commented
he looked at Penske and said 'you have cars and drivers'
then pointed to George and said 'he has event and that is why he is going to win'

Zarzour said there will be lawsuit by pro golfers by end of calendar year

Strange went scorched earth on those who left

other 3 majors will follow Masters lead

LOL, Ryosuke Kino****a is sensored!

"Funny that half the golf media missed it because they were over giving free promotion to the franchise they claim to have hated to much."

Was going to say something about that also. As social media savvy as a lot of the guys are that have made the biggest stink about this, you would think they would understand that by tweeting about it constantly, even if they are putting it down, they are keeping it in the conversation.

Here is Mickelson's press conference from the U. S. Open. I am a Mickelson guy, but it would be great if he won this week and sent the whole sports writing community off kilter. I would love to see that chaos. He was rusty last week and I imagine that will still be the case this week and it will be tough for him to win.

DrummerboyWolf said:

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Here is Mickelson's press conference from the U. S. Open. I am a Mickelson guy, but it would be great if he won this week and sent the whole sports writing community off kilter. I would love to see that chaos. He was rusty last week and I imagine that will still be the case this week and it will be tough for him to win.

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I'll watch the interviews tonight....but couldn't you see him coming off the 18 green flipping the bird to the media row like the kid from UT did in the regionals....lol.

Packchem91 said:

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DrummerboyWolf said:

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Here is Mickelson's press conference from the U. S. Open. I am a Mickelson guy, but it would be great if he won this week and sent the whole sports writing community off kilter. I would love to see that chaos. He was rusty last week and I imagine that will still be the case this week and it will be tough for him to win.

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I'll watch the interviews tonight....but couldn't you see him coming off the 18 green flipping the bird to the media row like the kid from UT did in the regionals....lol.

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I would love to see it!

Wolfer79 said:

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espnradio Saturday
Marty and McGee
simulcast on SEC Network

had 3 guests talk about LIV tour
Taylor Zarzour, Sirius/XM PGA Tour Radio
Mark Schlabach, ESPN writer who has been covering LVI story
Curtis Strange, former pro golfer and current TV commentator

all 3 said it comes down to what Fred Ridley, Masters' chairman decides

comparison was made to Indy/CART split in open wheel racing
Tony George, Indy, and Roger Pendle, CART, met with Bill France, Jr, NASCAR president, as mediator. just the 3 of them.

after hours of George and Penske yelling at each other, they ask France why he had not commented
he looked at Penske and said 'you have cars and drivers'
then pointed to George and said 'he has event and that is why he is going to win'

Zarzour said there will be lawsuit by pro golfers by end of calendar year

Strange went scorched earth on those who left

other 3 majors will follow Masters lead

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If the other tour is still around next year, the PGA Championship is already a done deal... they're just not talking about it yet.

I expect The Masters will ban the turncoats as well.

I expect the "Opens" will remain open.

TheStorm said:

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If the other tour is still around next year, the PGA Championship is already a done deal... they're just not talking about it yet.

I expect The Masters will ban the turncoats as well.

I expect the "Opens" will remain open.

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First if you had read my post above, I said I thought Phil would still be rusty. Chances of him winning this week are slim, but you just never know. I would love to hear the whine and moan from the commentators and sportswriters and the chaos it would create. Top 4 of Mickelson, Johnson, DeChambeau, and Reed would send them into orbit. They might boo Phil some this weekend, but if he is in contention on Sunday the crowd will be just like last year at Kiawah.

The PGA Championship is run by the PGA of America and not the PGA Tour. Will they ban guys? Not so sure on that.

The two Opens will remain Open or they are not true to their tradition.

The Masters, who can do anything they want at any time. "THE MASTERS, A TRADITION UNLIKE ANY OTHER" is going to ban 5 former Champions(Phil, DJ, Reed, Sergio, and Swartzel) that are still active? They are going to ban a U. S. Open Champion(DeChambeau) who is qualified for the next 3 years? The Masters has always been an invitational. They value their tradition and I doubt very seriously it will happen.

You call them turncoats out for blood money. If DJ got paid over 100 million, then that is more money than he has made in 15 years on the Tour. You know this is still America and we do have freedom of choice. You may not like it, but the free market works. Phil has earned his Lifetime status on the PGA Tour and should be able to play anytime and anywhere he wants. DJ is right there too, but I think he needs one or two more years to qualify as a lifetime member. The Saudi's are not going to run out of money. Ian Poulter has already said he is going to sue the PGA Tour. This is not over by any means.

Packchem91 said:

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caryking said:

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Somebody, tell me the difference between: PGA, Nascar, and the NCAA.

They represent different. bodies; however, they are all about the same, in my eyes.

---

huh? Are you referring to how they are managed?

---

Chem, sorry it took so long to respond to this... I think I also said that they are all woke. Regarding the PGA, they jumped on the bandwagon when they pulled the US Open from Bedminster.

At some point, the piling on Trump has to end. I'm not saying Trump needs to do something different; rather, organizations, like The PGA, needs to stay out of politics!!

caryking said:

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Packchem91 said:

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caryking said:

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Somebody, tell me the difference between: PGA, Nascar, and the NCAA.

They represent different. bodies; however, they are all about the same, in my eyes.

---

huh? Are you referring to how they are managed?

---

Chem, sorry it took so long to respond to this... I think I also said that they are all woke. Regarding the PGA, they jumped on the bandwagon when they pulled the US Open from Bedminster.

At some point, the piling on Trump has to end. I'm not saying Trump needs to do something different; rather, organizations, like The PGA, needs to stay out of politics!!

---

If they perceive it will hurt their sport, they should take action. (NOTE: I don't know if hosting a tournament at a Trump course would hurt or not, just saying I have no issue with a company trying to protect its brand).

TheStorm said:

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No offense DBW, but there is a far better chance that Phil misses the cut than there is in him being in contention on Sunday...

And good lord - what in the world happened to that chiseled, well tanned dude hiding behind the mirrored glasses, chomping away hard on that CBD gum (like a cow chewing his cudd) that was strolling along the course just less than 13 months ago giving everybody the thumbs up (Weekend at Bernie's style) ?!?

Somehow it appears that he has snapped back out of that catatonic state that he was in at the time. That's too bad, I liked him far better that way...

What everybody fails to recognize is that while these guys are stuffing their pockets with blood money, that they are directly putting those that play on the PGA Tour's livelihood at risk.

I fully expect to see Phil get booed this weekend... in fact, I hope that the entire lot of the turncoats will get that treatment. They deserve it.

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Yeah, he doesn;t stand a chance....but I bet there is a more likely chance that the fans sing HBD to Phil again rather than boo him

*I'm sure someone will boo him -- its in Boston, but I don't see it being a pervasive issue for him. Now --- I'd not be surprised at all if we hear of some dustup with some fans and either Bryson or Reed. So many dislike them anyway, this could be a trigger for some of those fans to react

In light of all the dust-up with this, it's kind of amusing that the PGA tour as we know it came about because big names like Nicklaus wanted more money and more control from the PGA of America. They split off in a power play and created their own thing that eventually became the tour we have today.

wilmwolf80 said:

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In light of all the dust-up with this, it's kind of amusing that the PGA tour as we know it came about because big names like Nicklaus wanted more money and more control from the PGA of America. They split off in a power play and created their own thing that eventually became the tour we have today.

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Yep, and 15M, for the CEO a year in a non-profit...

wilmwolf80 said:

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In light of all the dust-up with this, it's kind of amusing that the PGA tour as we know it came about because big names like Nicklaus wanted more money and more control from the PGA of America. They split off in a power play and created their own thing that eventually became the tour we have today.

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It was Jack and Arnold Palmer. So it has been done before.

I like Rahm's take here

Well this'll be in the documentary pic.twitter.com/OyyYVcGh2z

— No Laying Up (@NoLayingUp) June 14, 2022

jadawson said:

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I like Rahm's take here

Well this'll be in the documentary pic.twitter.com/OyyYVcGh2z

— No Laying Up (@NoLayingUp) June 14, 2022

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Yep. That's my take as well.

Perfectly stated.