BBW12OG said:

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Why don't you make murder a crime? When you solve that one get back to me.

And... the cities that have mass shootings on a weekly basis have the strictest gun laws in America. How is that working out for them?

Please tell law abiding citizens that don't "shoot up the place" on a weekly basis they should surrender their 2nd Amendment Rights so the criminals, hooligans and thugs can continue to victimize communities.

In your "utopia" who is allowed to own firearms? Do you know what a semi-automatic firearm is? Serious question.

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• "Why don't you make murder a crime? When you solve that one get back to me. "
  
  Not sure what this means, unless it's just some weird strawman.
• If you have data correlating mass shooting locations and gun laws, I would find that very interesting. I will say that the lists of 2022 mass shootings I've seen show a bunch in the south/southwest, where I would not expect to find the strictest gun laws in America.
• I would not tell anyone anything like that.
• I would not favor many blanket restrictions on who can own what guns. However, I think there should be escalating scrutiny/requirements depending on the purchaser and the type of weapon they want to purchase. An 18yo male seeking to buy multiple assualt rifles is going to get more scrutiny than a 45yo buying a hunting rifle, for example. Same requirements should apply to dealer sales, gun shows, and private party sales. Had there been any kind of meaningful background check and/or waiting period in Uvalde, TX, that shooter likely would have been prevented from purchasing those weapons and possibly would have been on someone's radar for mental health intervention.

Manny Sanguine said:

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If you have data correlating mass shooting locations and gun laws, I would find that very interesting. I will say that the lists of 2022 mass shootings I've seen show a bunch in the south/southwest, where I would not expect to find the strictest gun laws in America.

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Mass shootings seem to occur most frequently at "gun free zones". Why? Because criminals know that virtually none of their potential victims will be armed, and able to fight back.

I think commie Left wing idiots should put "gun free zone" signs in their front yards right before their front door. That should "protect" them from criminals.

Same principle applies in commie DemonRat-run cities with very strict gun control -- like Chicago, Baltimore, Detroit, Philadelphia, etc. These cities have the highest crime rates in the country. Criminals in these cities are more likely to attempt home invasions, robberies, and other crimes because they know that law-abiding citizens (who have had their gun rights restricted) are less likely to be armed and able to defend themselves.

statefan91 said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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Lie #1...that there are "staggering" levels of death. Completely false. The truth is that the U.S. has a relatively low homicide rate compared to the rest of the world.

He is reacting emotionally, to 24/7 wall-to-wall coverage by the communist Lamestream media of these staged shootings and psyops. When the communist TV media is talking about it 24/7, you are tricked into thinking it is a "crisis", when in fact it is NOT. Not at all.

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Compared to under developed / 3rd world countries, totally.

Compared to peer developed countries, we outpace most by 2x the homicide rate at a minimum. I just looked at the data on here and amongst peer countries we actually average 6x the homicide rate.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/murder-rate-by-country

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Demographics are a big factor. The U.S. has 3rd world demographics, and is becoming a 3rd world country.

Look at homicide rates by state. States like Utah, Idaho, Iowa, Maine, and New Hampshire have very low homicide rates -- around 2 per 100,000. That rate is close to the homicide rate in "1st world nations" you want to compare to.

Then states like Louisiana and Mississippi have the highest homicide rates -- around 20 per 100,000...10 times higher than the lowest states. On par with 3rd world countries.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/homicide_mortality/homicide.htm


The contrast is even more stark when you look at the homicide rate of cities. Baltimore (55 per 100,000) and Detroit (40 per 100,000)....versus cities like Seattle and Portland, OR. (3.7 per 100,000).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate

https://news.yahoo.com/five-takeaways-uvalde-schools-police-133100944.html

Quote:

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• Arredondo never thought he was incident commander
• The decision to leave the radio was intentional
• He was thwarted by a door
• His strategy was to save as many children as possible
• Law enforcement experts said Arredondo made critical mistakes

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Quote:

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Arredondo said this decision was intentional. He told The Texas Tribune that he expected to confront the gunman and wanted both hands free to hold his gun, ready to aim and fire quickly and accurately. He left the two radios outside the school.

Arredondo believed that carrying the radios would slow him down. One had a whiplike antenna that would hit him as he ran. The other had a clip that Arredondo knew would cause it to fall off his tactical belt during a long run.

But that decision also meant that for the rest of the ordeal, he was not in radio contact with the scores of other officers from at least five agencies who swarmed the scene.

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Quote:

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The Tribune spoke to seven law enforcement experts about Arredondo's description of the police response. All but one said that serious lapses in judgment occurred.

Most strikingly, they said, by running into the school without his radios, and failing to take charge of the situation, the chief appears to have contributed to a chaotic approach in which officers deployed inappropriate tactics, adopted a defensive posture, failed to coordinate their actions, and wasted precious time as students and teachers remained trapped in two classrooms with a gunman who continued to fire his rifle.

Steve Ijames, a police tactics expert and former assistant police chief of Springfield, Missouri, said it is highly unusual for a police officer to intentionally ditch his radio while answering a call.

"I've never heard anything like that in my life," Ijames said.

Ijames added that it is "inconceivable" that Arredondo's officers did not have a plan to access any room or building on campus at any moment, given the school district makes up the entirety of the tiny force's jurisdiction.

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Arredondo was apparently unfit for his role. Interestingly, the article says he is currently in hiding; so, he is not a complete idiot. He's just trying to CYA for now.

People also need some perspective when it comes the REAL leading causes of death in the United States. If you watched the commie Lamestream media who are salivating to take your gun rights, you would think the only people who die in the United States are shot with AR-15s.

It's not homicide, by a long shot. And it's certainly not homicide with a gun. And there are only ~450 homicide deaths per year with all types of rifles. So how many with those scary black AR-15s? Maybe 100?

Deaths per year in the United States:

Heart disease: 696,962.

Cancer: 602,350.

Accidents (unintentional injuries): 200,955.

Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 160,264.

Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 152,657.

Alzheimer's disease: 134,242

Diabetes: 102,188

Firearm homicides 19,384

Drug overdoses: 100,000

Automobile accident deaths: ~30,000




So....yeah, the "biggest crisis" in the country is to ban AR-15s because of those ~100 homicides using an AR-15. Not the 100,000 drug overdoses. Or the heart disease and cancer epidemics killing ~600,000 per year. Not a crisis.

Quote:

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• If you have data correlating mass shooting locations and gun laws, I would find that very interesting. I will say that the lists of 2022 mass shootings I've seen show a bunch in the south/southwest, where I would not expect to find the strictest gun laws in America.

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LOL... Wow....

You make it so easy....

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/strictest-gun-laws-by-state

What part of the "Southwest" are these cities in?

Austin and Mesa, I will concede that they are in the "Southwest." What do they have in common? Leadership and demographics.

You still are refusing to admit and own up to the core issue. Guns in the hands of criminals are the problem. Laws will only work as far as the enforcement. Maybe stop electing liberal "get off with a slap on the wrist DAs" and the enforcement will have an effect on the shootings. But, you know that right?

Exactly what point are you trying to make? It's not the law abiding citizens that are doing the shootings. It's the "element." You know it.

GuerrillaPack said:

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statefan91 said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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Lie #1...that there are "staggering" levels of death. Completely false. The truth is that the U.S. has a relatively low homicide rate compared to the rest of the world.

He is reacting emotionally, to 24/7 wall-to-wall coverage by the communist Lamestream media of these staged shootings and psyops. When the communist TV media is talking about it 24/7, you are tricked into thinking it is a "crisis", when in fact it is NOT. Not at all.

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Compared to under developed / 3rd world countries, totally.

Compared to peer developed countries, we outpace most by 2x the homicide rate at a minimum. I just looked at the data on here and amongst peer countries we actually average 6x the homicide rate.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/murder-rate-by-country

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Demographics are a big factor. The U.S. has 3rd world demographics, and is becoming a 3rd world country.

Look at homicide rates by state. States like Utah, Idaho, Iowa, Maine, and New Hampshire have very low homicide rates -- around 2 per 100,000. That rate is close to the homicide rate in "1st world nations" you want to compare to.

Then states like Louisiana and Mississippi have the highest homicide rates -- around 20 per 100,000...10 times higher than the lowest states. On par with 3rd world countries.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/homicide_mortality/homicide.htm


The contrast is even more stark when you look at the homicide rate of cities. Baltimore (55 per 100,000) and Detroit (40 per 100,000)....versus cities like Seattle and Portland, OR. (3.7 per 100,000).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate

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How much of the violence is occurring in democratic run cities? I ask because these cities are a smaller sample size of what anti gun folks want or country to look like. But, the statistics that are always touted, by these same folks, are national statistics compared to other countries.

Steve Videtich said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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statefan91 said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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Lie #1...that there are "staggering" levels of death. Completely false. The truth is that the U.S. has a relatively low homicide rate compared to the rest of the world.

He is reacting emotionally, to 24/7 wall-to-wall coverage by the communist Lamestream media of these staged shootings and psyops. When the communist TV media is talking about it 24/7, you are tricked into thinking it is a "crisis", when in fact it is NOT. Not at all.

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Compared to under developed / 3rd world countries, totally.

Compared to peer developed countries, we outpace most by 2x the homicide rate at a minimum. I just looked at the data on here and amongst peer countries we actually average 6x the homicide rate.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/murder-rate-by-country

---

Demographics are a big factor. The U.S. has 3rd world demographics, and is becoming a 3rd world country.

Look at homicide rates by state. States like Utah, Idaho, Iowa, Maine, and New Hampshire have very low homicide rates -- around 2 per 100,000. That rate is close to the homicide rate in "1st world nations" you want to compare to.

Then states like Louisiana and Mississippi have the highest homicide rates -- around 20 per 100,000...10 times higher than the lowest states. On par with 3rd world countries.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/homicide_mortality/homicide.htm


The contrast is even more stark when you look at the homicide rate of cities. Baltimore (55 per 100,000) and Detroit (40 per 100,000)....versus cities like Seattle and Portland, OR. (3.7 per 100,000).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate

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How much of the violence is occurring in democratic run cities? I ask because these cities are a smaller sample size of what anti gun folks want or country to look like. But, the statistics that are always touted, by these same folks, are national statistics compared to other countries.

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Oh no, Steve... you are not allowed to ask questions like that because they are racist.

That's why I said Democrat run cities. Are these not perfect examples of what they would like to have on a national level?

Steve Videtich said:

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That's why I said Democrat run cities. Are these not perfect examples of what they would like to have on a national level?

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I may have to call PackChem in for a ruling on this one...

TheStorm said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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That's why I said Democrat run cities. Are these not perfect examples of what they would like to have on a national level?

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I may have to call PackChem in for a ruling on this one...

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We already know what that response will be, as well as others. But, if your end goal is to eliminate guns, you also have a blind spot to the root causes of the issues. I just get tired of the "compared to other countries" argument.

Looks like the higher death rates of guns is in the South and Midwest



Weird how that lines up with more gun ownership as well. Shouldn't it be lower in States with more guns since guns make us safer?

Here's a question for y'all. How many years has it been since our last major gun legislation?

PackFansXL said:

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Here's a question for y'all. How many years has it been since our last major gun legislation?

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Probably ~30, right? Assault rifle ban, early-mid 90's?

PackFansXL said:

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Here's a question for y'all. How many years has it been since our last major gun legislation?

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1994

Steve Videtich said:

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TheStorm said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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That's why I said Democrat run cities. Are these not perfect examples of what they would like to have on a national level?

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I may have to call PackChem in for a ruling on this one...

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We already know what that response will be, as well as others. But, if your end goal is to eliminate guns, you also have a blind spot to the root causes of the issues. I just get tired of the "compared to other countries" argument.

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Are the root causes of gun violence in Democrat-run cities the same as the causes of mass shootings?

Are the solutions for gang/drug-related violence in cities with entrenched poverty the same as for mass shootings?

I think it's a fallacy that mass shootings and gang violence are borne of similar circumstances and therefore must have similar solutions.

The efficacy of restrictive gun laws in urban areas with entrenched poverty, gang, and/or drug trade challenges isn't an indicator of whether effective gun legislation could help blunt the number or severity of mass shootings in schools because the root of those two problems is different.

https://www.murphy.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/cornyn-murphy-scott-blumenthal-introduce-fix-nics-act-to-enhance-compliance-ensure-accuracy-of-existing-background-check-system-for-firearms-purchases-

November 2017

Quote:

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WASHINGTON U.S. Senators John Cornyn (R-TX), Chris Murphy (D-CT), Tim Scott (R-SC), and Richard Blumenthal (D-CT), along with Senators Orrin Hatch (R-UT), Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), Dean Heller (R-NV), and Jeanne Shaheen (D-NH), introduced the Fix NICS Act to ensure federal and state authorities comply with existing law and accurately report relevant criminal history records to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS). The bill penalizes federal agencies who fail to properly report relevant records and incentivizes states to improve their overall reporting. The bill also directs more federal funding to the accurate reporting of domestic violence records. Text of the Fix NICS Act is attached.

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statefan91 said:

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Looks like the higher death rates of guns is in the South and Midwest



Weird how that lines up with more gun ownership as well. Shouldn't it be lower in States with more guns since guns make us safer?

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this is a false equivalence. I'll give you an example.

What you need to understand is that the way to getting less murders in this country is to apply the law and provide more funding for police.

I was listening to a podcast and the guest was Thiru Vignarajah, former deputy attorney general of Maryland, who's running for States Attorney for Baltimore.

He made an excellent point in that podcast in that Baltimore led the country in gun shots to the head. Why? Was it more guns that made the difference? Nope.

It was the fact that because Baltimore had two excellent Trauma Centers with John Hopkins and UMMS Shock Trauma that the drug dealers and gang members where frustrated that they would shoot someone and these miracle workers at these two hospitals would patch them up and two weeks later they'd be back out on the street.

So, they changed their tactics to up the caliber of weapons they were using and being more brazen with their shootings in that they would shoot someone and then make sure they were dead by walking up and putting two in their head.

These dealers applied reasoning and logic to their problem. They are better off making sure someone is dead then for them to get patched up and come back and try to kill them.

So do we now equate world class emergency services with the murder rate?

What needs to happen is that the way police is funded needs to be addressed. For instance the amount of overtime spent in Baltimore ($48M) would fund paying the entire department $100k per man AND add 400 officers to the street. It's a misnomer that African American communities don't want police. They do, they just don't want to be harassed by police. That's two different things and something that should be strived for

They also should focus on the violent crimes cold cases where these dealers and gangsters are committing these heinous murders, which are rarely committed by first time felons. Use the laws that are already on the books. If you get these multiple felons off the streets and stop giving them a pass, that combined with more officers would do wonders in Baltimore.

Civilized said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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TheStorm said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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That's why I said Democrat run cities. Are these not perfect examples of what they would like to have on a national level?

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I may have to call PackChem in for a ruling on this one...

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We already know what that response will be, as well as others. But, if your end goal is to eliminate guns, you also have a blind spot to the root causes of the issues. I just get tired of the "compared to other countries" argument.

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Are the root causes of gun violence in Democrat-run cities the same as the causes of mass shootings?

Are the solutions for gang/drug-related violence in cities with entrenched poverty the same as for mass shootings?

I think it's a fallacy that mass shootings and gang violence are borne of similar circumstances and therefore must have similar solutions.

The efficacy of restrictive gun laws in urban areas with entrenched poverty, gang, and/or drug trade challenges isn't an indicator of whether effective gun legislation could help blunt the number or severity of mass shootings in schools because the root of those two problems is different.

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Not disagreeing at all with you. But, people are yelling about national problems and country by country statistics. The root cause are very different in these two problems you stated. The only commonality is that the anti gun people are using similar arguments, in my opinion.

statefan91 said:

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Looks like the higher death rates of guns is in the South and Midwest



Weird how that lines up with more gun ownership as well. Shouldn't it be lower in States with more guns since guns make us safer?

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You missed again! Now you're looking at a graph that breaks it down by population at the state level. Look at the city by city comparisons.

Try this one.

https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/murder-map-deadliest-u-s-cities/28/

Steve Videtich said:

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Civilized said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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TheStorm said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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That's why I said Democrat run cities. Are these not perfect examples of what they would like to have on a national level?

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I may have to call PackChem in for a ruling on this one...

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We already know what that response will be, as well as others. But, if your end goal is to eliminate guns, you also have a blind spot to the root causes of the issues. I just get tired of the "compared to other countries" argument.

---

Are the root causes of gun violence in Democrat-run cities the same as the causes of mass shootings?

Are the solutions for gang/drug-related violence in cities with entrenched poverty the same as for mass shootings?

I think it's a fallacy that mass shootings and gang violence are borne of similar circumstances and therefore must have similar solutions.

The efficacy of restrictive gun laws in urban areas with entrenched poverty, gang, and/or drug trade challenges isn't an indicator of whether effective gun legislation could help blunt the number or severity of mass shootings in schools because the root of those two problems is different.

---

Not disagreeing at all with you. But, people are yelling about national problems and country by country statistics. The root cause are very different in these two problems you stated. The only commonality is that the anti gun people are using similar arguments, in my opinion.

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Agree.

I think BBW's actually right that inner cities are in some ways more like third-world countries than they are like Austin or Raleigh. Deeply entrenched generational poverty, family instability, housing and food insecurity, and lack of economic opportunity are commonalities of crime around the world.

Comparing the effects of gun legislation on inner cities crime, given the drivers and also that almost all the guns in use are illegally acquired, is apples and peanuts to the prospective effects of gun legislation on mass school shootings.

Civilized said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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Civilized said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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TheStorm said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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That's why I said Democrat run cities. Are these not perfect examples of what they would like to have on a national level?

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I may have to call PackChem in for a ruling on this one...

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We already know what that response will be, as well as others. But, if your end goal is to eliminate guns, you also have a blind spot to the root causes of the issues. I just get tired of the "compared to other countries" argument.

---

Are the root causes of gun violence in Democrat-run cities the same as the causes of mass shootings?

Are the solutions for gang/drug-related violence in cities with entrenched poverty the same as for mass shootings?

I think it's a fallacy that mass shootings and gang violence are borne of similar circumstances and therefore must have similar solutions.

The efficacy of restrictive gun laws in urban areas with entrenched poverty, gang, and/or drug trade challenges isn't an indicator of whether effective gun legislation could help blunt the number or severity of mass shootings in schools because the root of those two problems is different.

---

Not disagreeing at all with you. But, people are yelling about national problems and country by country statistics. The root cause are very different in these two problems you stated. The only commonality is that the anti gun people are using similar arguments, in my opinion.

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Agree.

I think BBW's actually right that inner cities are in some ways more like third-world countries than they are like Austin or Raleigh. Deeply entrenched generational poverty, family instability, housing and food insecurity, and lack of economic opportunity are commonalities of crime around the world.

Comparing the effects of gun legislation on inner cities crime, given the drivers and also that almost all the guns in use are illegally acquired, is apples and peanuts to the prospective effects of gun legislation on mass school shootings.

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What party has been in charge of those cities for decades? Look at them today.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mayors_of_the_50_largest_cities_in_the_United_States

https://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/11/are-american-cities-the-only-place-left-for-democrats-to-feel-at-home.html

Common denominator.

BBW12OG said:

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Civilized said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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Civilized said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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TheStorm said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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That's why I said Democrat run cities. Are these not perfect examples of what they would like to have on a national level?

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I may have to call PackChem in for a ruling on this one...

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We already know what that response will be, as well as others. But, if your end goal is to eliminate guns, you also have a blind spot to the root causes of the issues. I just get tired of the "compared to other countries" argument.

---

Are the root causes of gun violence in Democrat-run cities the same as the causes of mass shootings?

Are the solutions for gang/drug-related violence in cities with entrenched poverty the same as for mass shootings?

I think it's a fallacy that mass shootings and gang violence are borne of similar circumstances and therefore must have similar solutions.

The efficacy of restrictive gun laws in urban areas with entrenched poverty, gang, and/or drug trade challenges isn't an indicator of whether effective gun legislation could help blunt the number or severity of mass shootings in schools because the root of those two problems is different.

---

Not disagreeing at all with you. But, people are yelling about national problems and country by country statistics. The root cause are very different in these two problems you stated. The only commonality is that the anti gun people are using similar arguments, in my opinion.

---

Agree.

I think BBW's actually right that inner cities are in some ways more like third-world countries than they are like Austin or Raleigh. Deeply entrenched generational poverty, family instability, housing and food insecurity, and lack of economic opportunity are commonalities of crime around the world.

Comparing the effects of gun legislation on inner cities crime, given the drivers and also that almost all the guns in use are illegally acquired, is apples and peanuts to the prospective effects of gun legislation on mass school shootings.

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What party has been in charge of those cities for decades? Look at them today.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mayors_of_the_50_largest_cities_in_the_United_States

https://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/11/are-american-cities-the-only-place-left-for-democrats-to-feel-at-home.html

Common denominator.

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everyone's aware of your point. Thanks. Doubt the solution is to just elect republicans at this point though.

BBW12OG said:

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Civilized said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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Civilized said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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TheStorm said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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That's why I said Democrat run cities. Are these not perfect examples of what they would like to have on a national level?

---

I may have to call PackChem in for a ruling on this one...

---

We already know what that response will be, as well as others. But, if your end goal is to eliminate guns, you also have a blind spot to the root causes of the issues. I just get tired of the "compared to other countries" argument.

---

Are the root causes of gun violence in Democrat-run cities the same as the causes of mass shootings?

Are the solutions for gang/drug-related violence in cities with entrenched poverty the same as for mass shootings?

I think it's a fallacy that mass shootings and gang violence are borne of similar circumstances and therefore must have similar solutions.

The efficacy of restrictive gun laws in urban areas with entrenched poverty, gang, and/or drug trade challenges isn't an indicator of whether effective gun legislation could help blunt the number or severity of mass shootings in schools because the root of those two problems is different.

---

Not disagreeing at all with you. But, people are yelling about national problems and country by country statistics. The root cause are very different in these two problems you stated. The only commonality is that the anti gun people are using similar arguments, in my opinion.

---

Agree.

I think BBW's actually right that inner cities are in some ways more like third-world countries than they are like Austin or Raleigh. Deeply entrenched generational poverty, family instability, housing and food insecurity, and lack of economic opportunity are commonalities of crime around the world.

Comparing the effects of gun legislation on inner cities crime, given the drivers and also that almost all the guns in use are illegally acquired, is apples and peanuts to the prospective effects of gun legislation on mass school shootings.

---

What party has been in charge of those cities for decades? Look at them today.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mayors_of_the_50_largest_cities_in_the_United_States

https://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/11/are-american-cities-the-only-place-left-for-democrats-to-feel-at-home.html

Common denominator.

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What's your point?

TheStorm said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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That's why I said Democrat run cities. Are these not perfect examples of what they would like to have on a national level?

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I may have to call PackChem in for a ruling on this one...

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Rules official on hand, sir.
Again, I've purposefully focused on ARs, not handguns. I think if you analyzed the shootings, you'd find very few ARs used in the inner city killings. What gang member wants to carry one of those around as opposed to a handgun?

I don't think analyzing why those crimes occur and how to limit them is a bad thing. But we've had 40 years of this, and no one ever really takes it on, so at some point, you have to assume we don't care.

But hey, as part of this national debate, lets spend time trying to figure out how to reduce killings in inner cities as well. Crazy thing is, not that I watch a bunch of news shows about this, but on the ones I've seen since Buff and Uvalde, crime in cities hasn't been mentioned once that I recall. I don't think that is a Democratic thing. I think its an "All of us" thing.

BTW, are there GOP led major cities at this point? I don't pretend ot know the mayors of big cities, but I know most are much more lib led in great part because the people left behind in those cities lean that way.

hokiewolf said:

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BBW12OG said:

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Civilized said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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Civilized said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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TheStorm said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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That's why I said Democrat run cities. Are these not perfect examples of what they would like to have on a national level?

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I may have to call PackChem in for a ruling on this one...

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We already know what that response will be, as well as others. But, if your end goal is to eliminate guns, you also have a blind spot to the root causes of the issues. I just get tired of the "compared to other countries" argument.

---

Are the root causes of gun violence in Democrat-run cities the same as the causes of mass shootings?

Are the solutions for gang/drug-related violence in cities with entrenched poverty the same as for mass shootings?

I think it's a fallacy that mass shootings and gang violence are borne of similar circumstances and therefore must have similar solutions.

The efficacy of restrictive gun laws in urban areas with entrenched poverty, gang, and/or drug trade challenges isn't an indicator of whether effective gun legislation could help blunt the number or severity of mass shootings in schools because the root of those two problems is different.

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Not disagreeing at all with you. But, people are yelling about national problems and country by country statistics. The root cause are very different in these two problems you stated. The only commonality is that the anti gun people are using similar arguments, in my opinion.

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Agree.

I think BBW's actually right that inner cities are in some ways more like third-world countries than they are like Austin or Raleigh. Deeply entrenched generational poverty, family instability, housing and food insecurity, and lack of economic opportunity are commonalities of crime around the world.

Comparing the effects of gun legislation on inner cities crime, given the drivers and also that almost all the guns in use are illegally acquired, is apples and peanuts to the prospective effects of gun legislation on mass school shootings.

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What party has been in charge of those cities for decades? Look at them today.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mayors_of_the_50_largest_cities_in_the_United_States

https://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/11/are-american-cities-the-only-place-left-for-democrats-to-feel-at-home.html

Common denominator.

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everyone's aware of your point. Thanks. Doubt the solution is to just elect republicans at this point though.

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We could do worse than to elect Republicans. Oh wait, we did.

https://ballotpedia.org/Party_affiliation_of_the_mayors_of_the_100_largest_cities

Quote:

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Party affiliation of the mayors of the 100 largest cities

Democratic - 62
Republican - 25
Independent - 4
Nonpartisan - 7

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PackFansXL said:

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https://ballotpedia.org/Party_affiliation_of_the_mayors_of_the_100_largest_cities

Quote:

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Party affiliation of the mayors of the 100 largest cities

Democratic - 62
Republican - 25
Independent - 4
Nonpartisan - 7

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Hmmm...

Steve Videtich said:

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PackFansXL said:

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https://ballotpedia.org/Party_affiliation_of_the_mayors_of_the_100_largest_cities

Quote:

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Party affiliation of the mayors of the 100 largest cities

Democratic - 62
Republican - 25
Independent - 4
Nonpartisan - 7

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Hmmm...

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The first Republican shows up at 12 for Jacksonville, FL, population ~950k.

Civilized said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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Civilized said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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TheStorm said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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That's why I said Democrat run cities. Are these not perfect examples of what they would like to have on a national level?

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I may have to call PackChem in for a ruling on this one...

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We already know what that response will be, as well as others. But, if your end goal is to eliminate guns, you also have a blind spot to the root causes of the issues. I just get tired of the "compared to other countries" argument.

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Are the root causes of gun violence in Democrat-run cities the same as the causes of mass shootings?

Are the solutions for gang/drug-related violence in cities with entrenched poverty the same as for mass shootings?

I think it's a fallacy that mass shootings and gang violence are borne of similar circumstances and therefore must have similar solutions.

The efficacy of restrictive gun laws in urban areas with entrenched poverty, gang, and/or drug trade challenges isn't an indicator of whether effective gun legislation could help blunt the number or severity of mass shootings in schools because the root of those two problems is different.

---

Not disagreeing at all with you. But, people are yelling about national problems and country by country statistics. The root cause are very different in these two problems you stated. The only commonality is that the anti gun people are using similar arguments, in my opinion.

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Agree.

I think BBW's actually right that inner cities are in some ways more like third-world countries than they are like Austin or Raleigh. Deeply entrenched generational poverty, family instability, housing and food insecurity, and lack of economic opportunity are commonalities of crime around the world.

Comparing the effects of gun legislation on inner cities crime, given the drivers and also that almost all the guns in use are illegally acquired, is apples and peanuts to the prospective effects of gun legislation on mass school shootings.

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I think we can find some common thinking here…

All the things you pointed out needs a fix. I have complained about this numerous times; so, here goes…. We need more employment opportunities in these areas. I think the financial institutions took advantage of free trade and moved so many jobs to China.

I'm not saying this is the only fix; however, creating stable jobs will certainly help with a stable family. My opinion: democratic leadership looks at things backward; however, I believe they have been dealt a weak hand because of the job transfer to China.

My free market people want a free market…. The only problem is… we don't have one!

Here's one for Civ...

https://worldpopulationreview.com/us-city-rankings/cities-with-most-murders

https://katv.com/news/nation-world/analysis-democrats-at-the-helm-of-11-of-the-15-deadliest-cities-in-us

Now look at the Top 20 on the first link. Please show me a Republican Mayor.

If I have to spell it out it's on you.

Common denominator.

You have to "want to work."

You have to remove the assumption that "big government" will take care of you.

The dims will have to stop promoting the ideology of keeping the minorities "poor, uneducated and beholden" to them.

Until that happens you will keep seeing the same thing for generations. We have since the late 50's.

The voting block that keeps re-electing the same failed leadership will continue to do so as long as that leadership keeps promising champagne wishes and caviar dreams. Not to mention all the entitlements, welfare, free shiiite that never results in productivity.

They have a hell of a game plan. And they win with it.

Some folks you just can't help. Self accountability is lost when it's easier to just wait for handouts.

PackFansXL said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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PackFansXL said:

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https://ballotpedia.org/Party_affiliation_of_the_mayors_of_the_100_largest_cities

Quote:

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Party affiliation of the mayors of the 100 largest cities

Democratic - 62
Republican - 25
Independent - 4
Nonpartisan - 7

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Hmmm...

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The first Republican shows up at 12 for Jacksonville, FL, population ~950k.

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Interesting. A lot of southern / southwestern and recent growth places

Steve Videtich said:

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TheStorm said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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That's why I said Democrat run cities. Are these not perfect examples of what they would like to have on a national level?

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I may have to call PackChem in for a ruling on this one...

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We already know what that response will be, as well as others. But, if your end goal is to eliminate guns, you also have a blind spot to the root causes of the issues. I just get tired of the "compared to other countries" argument.

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Show me one time I've said getting rid of guns? This is the common overreaction though. Omg, Maude, the gubmint gonna come hit our guns.

Sure, there is some of that..but it's greatly overblown. And it's not nearly what I've suggested.

But it's a great way to gum up the works and then we go another 40 years before any reasonable reform