Eva Mireles and Irma Garcia, Uvalde teachers who perished while trying to save their students’ lives. Always remember their names. pic.twitter.com/dmZ5Sb07m8

— Michael Beschloss (@BeschlossDC) May 26, 2022

“Faces of a Town’s Overwhelming Loss”—today’s New York Times: pic.twitter.com/MalBGmMPWK

— Michael Beschloss (@BeschlossDC) May 26, 2022

Packchem91 said:

---

caryking said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

caryking said:

---

Glasswolf said:

---

My last post on the Texas school shooting yesterday. I'm mad that 19 kids and 2 adults lost their lives yesterday. Their photos are online. Go look at them. Then go look at your kids and just for a minute imagine if this happened in their school. Then hug them and tell them you love them. Hopefully tomorrow it won't be their schools turn

---

Glass, I get it! My daughter rides the Q Train in NYC everyday. That's the same train that had an incident recently. So yes, I can't imagine that happening to my daughter. I called her today to let her know I love her.

This is so sad for the families in Texas, no doubt. I just don't think people are being rational about real solutions. Also, I wish we would let all the facts get out before the radicals (on both sides) start the politicking…

Typically, the radicals will start with gun laws, then the other radicals and non-radicals try to defend the 2nd amendment. We don't have enough facts to cast any real judgement.

Radicals starting with gun laws puts everyone else on the defensive and then it just goes to hell from there. I wish the radicals, that start with gun laws, would just shut the hell up for a moment and see this issue to full understanding. Then, we can hopefully have meaningful possible discussion to help with this incident.

People like Chem just can't help themselves!

---

LOL, the guy who was gleeful this morning to have a bunch of people posting and debating (you have to turn lemons into lemonade, right?) is whining about others opinions on the topic is hilarious.

There are really 2 non-rational thoughts on this topic right now:
1) take all guns away --- I've not seen a single point on this thread even remotely suggest this
2) don't you dare prevent me from getting more guns -- this has been posted numerous times including by you.
But I know as you've posted before...you don't believe in compromise.

---

Gleeful - Chem, you have no idea what's in my heart. Be concerned about yours!

whining - Chem, my call was for more rational debate. Some on here are going straight to meat of where great divide will happen. Kind of like Roe vs Wade...

Chem, you need to learn to spot sarcasm. My point was essentially the same as Rahm Emmanuel when he said: you can't let a good crises go to waste. A horrific incident brought everyone out of the woodwork. Its fine to have dialogue after this event; however, you don't find the humor in the resurgence of posters, well, I don't know what to say... NOT THE HUMOR IN THE EVENT!!!!

Take all guns away - perhaps you're correct. I don't know what everyone has said.
Don't you dare prevent me from my guns - 2nd amendment is always under attack. Sorry, you don't see that.

Compromise - On certain issues, the bid and the ask are too far apart for compromise. Someone will ultimately lose and someone will win. That's life!

---

Maybe you should ride down to Uvalde and tell a bunch of parents that you still support the rights of an 18 yo kid to buy multiple AR15s (By GOD, my rights) and that its just life that they lost out.

Its funny...you say i don't know whats in your heart....oh sure I do, you gave us the answer.

Look, you can have all the handguns and shotguns and hunting rifles you want. You'll never come close to convincing me you need an AR. Sorry. There is no practical use of them other than killing. And you can say "protection", "for fun", "because I like them", "because the 2nd AMend says I can" or whatever, but they are solely for killing. And sometimes, a country with a soul has to make adjustments.

And I'd dare say the intelligent forefathers we keep referencing would not want that either, especially if they knew the # of times a group of innocent and unexpecting citizens would be wiped out in seconds. But sure....your heart and all.

---

. I do understand your premise but there has been a lot of research done and gun bans don't work. The assault weapons ban in '94 didn't move the needle one bit. I suspect a ban on a specific type of rifle would again have no effect

Packchem91 said:

---

And I'd dare say the intelligent forefathers we keep referencing would not want that either, especially if they knew the # of times a group of innocent and unexpecting citizens would be wiped out in seconds. But sure....your heart and all.

---

This is the part that gets me.

Do we really think the framers, in all their wisdom and critical thought, would see Americans owning three times more guns per capita as citizens of the next-most major nation; the misaligned motives of the gun lobby and the American people; the drastically changed landscape of our massive military relative to the ability of a militia to be effectual against it; and the gun violence and mass shootings in this country today and still view the second Amendment through the same lens that they viewed it back in 1791?

No chance.

But still, for some reason we continue to act like it's immutable instead of a living document that was always intended to evolve to adjust to dramatically changing circumstances like those over the last 230 years.

statefan91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

statefan91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

What are you saying is the solution?

---

Most in this thread are advocating for more security at schools. We've seen two school shootings where the officers have chosen not to do what they're there for and a lot of children have died as a result so not sure how more security is the solution.

---

We also have laws about guns on school property and murder so not sure how more laws is the solution. Way to not answer the question though.

---

I'm not paid to come up with the solution nor do I think I'm smart enough to know what it is. I just know that what's being proposed doesn't really seem like it's effective as displayed by those incidents where the cops were too scared to do something.

If police can't contend with people and the weapons legally available to them, then it doesn't seem like good guys with guns are much help.

---

You don't think police are much help? Ok. About par for the course with you.

Non of the laws or bans being suggested have worked either.

hokiewolf said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

caryking said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

caryking said:

---

Glasswolf said:

---

My last post on the Texas school shooting yesterday. I'm mad that 19 kids and 2 adults lost their lives yesterday. Their photos are online. Go look at them. Then go look at your kids and just for a minute imagine if this happened in their school. Then hug them and tell them you love them. Hopefully tomorrow it won't be their schools turn

---

Glass, I get it! My daughter rides the Q Train in NYC everyday. That's the same train that had an incident recently. So yes, I can't imagine that happening to my daughter. I called her today to let her know I love her.

This is so sad for the families in Texas, no doubt. I just don't think people are being rational about real solutions. Also, I wish we would let all the facts get out before the radicals (on both sides) start the politicking…

Typically, the radicals will start with gun laws, then the other radicals and non-radicals try to defend the 2nd amendment. We don't have enough facts to cast any real judgement.

Radicals starting with gun laws puts everyone else on the defensive and then it just goes to hell from there. I wish the radicals, that start with gun laws, would just shut the hell up for a moment and see this issue to full understanding. Then, we can hopefully have meaningful possible discussion to help with this incident.

People like Chem just can't help themselves!

---

LOL, the guy who was gleeful this morning to have a bunch of people posting and debating (you have to turn lemons into lemonade, right?) is whining about others opinions on the topic is hilarious.

There are really 2 non-rational thoughts on this topic right now:
1) take all guns away --- I've not seen a single point on this thread even remotely suggest this
2) don't you dare prevent me from getting more guns -- this has been posted numerous times including by you.
But I know as you've posted before...you don't believe in compromise.

---

Gleeful - Chem, you have no idea what's in my heart. Be concerned about yours!

whining - Chem, my call was for more rational debate. Some on here are going straight to meat of where great divide will happen. Kind of like Roe vs Wade...

Chem, you need to learn to spot sarcasm. My point was essentially the same as Rahm Emmanuel when he said: you can't let a good crises go to waste. A horrific incident brought everyone out of the woodwork. Its fine to have dialogue after this event; however, you don't find the humor in the resurgence of posters, well, I don't know what to say... NOT THE HUMOR IN THE EVENT!!!!

Take all guns away - perhaps you're correct. I don't know what everyone has said.
Don't you dare prevent me from my guns - 2nd amendment is always under attack. Sorry, you don't see that.

Compromise - On certain issues, the bid and the ask are too far apart for compromise. Someone will ultimately lose and someone will win. That's life!

---

Maybe you should ride down to Uvalde and tell a bunch of parents that you still support the rights of an 18 yo kid to buy multiple AR15s (By GOD, my rights) and that its just life that they lost out.

Its funny...you say i don't know whats in your heart....oh sure I do, you gave us the answer.

Look, you can have all the handguns and shotguns and hunting rifles you want. You'll never come close to convincing me you need an AR. Sorry. There is no practical use of them other than killing. And you can say "protection", "for fun", "because I like them", "because the 2nd AMend says I can" or whatever, but they are solely for killing. And sometimes, a country with a soul has to make adjustments.

And I'd dare say the intelligent forefathers we keep referencing would not want that either, especially if they knew the # of times a group of innocent and unexpecting citizens would be wiped out in seconds. But sure....your heart and all.

---

. I do understand your premise but there has been a lot of research done and gun bans don't work. The assault weapons ban in '94 didn't move the needle one bit. I suspect a ban on a specific type of rifle would again have no effect

---

Yet, in case after case, those are the guns being used for these mass killings.
Just as that ban may not have moved the needle, clealry, putting the onus on the sale of guns to verify bad people don't get them does not work.

Civilized said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

And I'd dare say the intelligent forefathers we keep referencing would not want that either, especially if they knew the # of times a group of innocent and unexpecting citizens would be wiped out in seconds. But sure....your heart and all.

---

This is the part that gets me.

Do we really think the framers, in all their wisdom and critical thought, would see Americans owning three times more guns per capita as citizens of the next-most major nation; the misaligned motives of the gun lobby and the American people; the drastically changed landscape of our massive military relative to the ability of a militia to be effectual against it; and the gun violence and mass shootings in this country today and still view the second Amendment through the same lens that they viewed it back in 1791?

No chance.

But still, for some reason we continue to act like it's immutable instead of a living document that was always intended to evolve to adjust to dramatically changing circumstances like those over the last 230 years.

---

100% false. If the Founders of this nation were alive today, they would support the Second Amendment even more strongly than they did when they wrote it -- given the dramatic rise of government tyranny as well as "normal" crime around the world. The right of people to be armed to protect themselves against tyrannical governments and crime is more needed now than ever -- and far more so than the late 18th century.

So nothing is immutable, and everything in the Constitution can just be violated and changed at the whim of Congress or state legislatures or judges, if they personally don't want to follow it? Can we have lawmakers and judges eviscerate other parts of the constitution as well, such as the 19th Amendment allowing women to vote? Or can lawmakers and judges only do this to violate laws and parts of the Constitution that Leftists want to violate?

This "living document" argument is 100% GARBAGE. The only sound way to interpret laws and the Constitution is to apply the plain language and plain intent of those who passed the laws. Furthermore, when those things are written down, they ARE immutable, so long as they were lawful to begin with. People can't just violate the laws because they personally don't like them or they claim they are "outdated".

If you want to repeal the Second Amendment, you must do so per the process contained within the Constitution. Otherwise, any laws passed by Congress or state legislatures that infringe upon gun rights are unconstitutional, and null and void.

Packchem91 said:

---

caryking said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

caryking said:

---

Glasswolf said:

---

My last post on the Texas school shooting yesterday. I'm mad that 19 kids and 2 adults lost their lives yesterday. Their photos are online. Go look at them. Then go look at your kids and just for a minute imagine if this happened in their school. Then hug them and tell them you love them. Hopefully tomorrow it won't be their schools turn

---

Glass, I get it! My daughter rides the Q Train in NYC everyday. That's the same train that had an incident recently. So yes, I can't imagine that happening to my daughter. I called her today to let her know I love her.

This is so sad for the families in Texas, no doubt. I just don't think people are being rational about real solutions. Also, I wish we would let all the facts get out before the radicals (on both sides) start the politicking…

Typically, the radicals will start with gun laws, then the other radicals and non-radicals try to defend the 2nd amendment. We don't have enough facts to cast any real judgement.

Radicals starting with gun laws puts everyone else on the defensive and then it just goes to hell from there. I wish the radicals, that start with gun laws, would just shut the hell up for a moment and see this issue to full understanding. Then, we can hopefully have meaningful possible discussion to help with this incident.

People like Chem just can't help themselves!

---

LOL, the guy who was gleeful this morning to have a bunch of people posting and debating (you have to turn lemons into lemonade, right?) is whining about others opinions on the topic is hilarious.

There are really 2 non-rational thoughts on this topic right now:
1) take all guns away --- I've not seen a single point on this thread even remotely suggest this
2) don't you dare prevent me from getting more guns -- this has been posted numerous times including by you.
But I know as you've posted before...you don't believe in compromise.

---

Gleeful - Chem, you have no idea what's in my heart. Be concerned about yours!

whining - Chem, my call was for more rational debate. Some on here are going straight to meat of where great divide will happen. Kind of like Roe vs Wade...

Chem, you need to learn to spot sarcasm. My point was essentially the same as Rahm Emmanuel when he said: you can't let a good crises go to waste. A horrific incident brought everyone out of the woodwork. Its fine to have dialogue after this event; however, you don't find the humor in the resurgence of posters, well, I don't know what to say... NOT THE HUMOR IN THE EVENT!!!!

Take all guns away - perhaps you're correct. I don't know what everyone has said.
Don't you dare prevent me from my guns - 2nd amendment is always under attack. Sorry, you don't see that.

Compromise - On certain issues, the bid and the ask are too far apart for compromise. Someone will ultimately lose and someone will win. That's life!

---

Maybe you should ride down to Uvalde and tell a bunch of parents that you still support the rights of an 18 yo kid to buy multiple AR15s (By GOD, my rights) and that its just life that they lost out.

Its funny...you say i don't know whats in your heart....oh sure I do, you gave us the answer.

Look, you can have all the handguns and shotguns and hunting rifles you want. You'll never come close to convincing me you need an AR. Sorry. There is no practical use of them other than killing. And you can say "protection", "for fun", "because I like them", "because the 2nd AMend says I can" or whatever, but they are solely for killing. And sometimes, a country with a soul has to make adjustments.

And I'd dare say the intelligent forefathers we keep referencing would not want that either, especially if they knew the # of times a group of innocent and unexpecting citizens would be wiped out in seconds. But sure....your heart and all.

---

Chem - you are the omnipotent one!
Chem - playing God is blasphemy

Civilized said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

And I'd dare say the intelligent forefathers we keep referencing would not want that either, especially if they knew the # of times a group of innocent and unexpecting citizens would be wiped out in seconds. But sure....your heart and all.

---

This is the part that gets me.

Do we really think the framers, in all their wisdom and critical thought, would see Americans owning three times more guns per capita as citizens of the next-most major nation; the misaligned motives of the gun lobby and the American people; the drastically changed landscape of our massive military relative to the ability of a militia to be effectual against it; and the gun violence and mass shootings in this country today and still view the second Amendment through the same lens that they viewed it back in 1791?

No chance.

But still, for some reason we continue to act like it's immutable instead of a living document that was always intended to evolve to adjust to dramatically changing circumstances like those over the last 230 years.

---

Another omnipotent one…

packgrad said:

---

statefan91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

statefan91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

I'm not paid to come up with the solution nor do I think I'm smart enough to know what it is. I just know that what's being proposed doesn't really seem like it's effective as displayed by those incidents where the cops were too scared to do something.

---

---

---

If police can't contend with people and the weapons legally available to them, then it doesn't seem like good guys with guns are much help.

---

You don't think police are much help? Ok. About par for the course with you.

Non of the laws or bans being suggested have worked either.

---

Well, did the security officers do anything in these situations? It sounds like they actively chose not to. If they can't contend with the firepower these school shooters have, then what's needed?

statefan91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

statefan91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

statefan91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

I'm not paid to come up with the solution nor do I think I'm smart enough to know what it is. I just know that what's being proposed doesn't really seem like it's effective as displayed by those incidents where the cops were too scared to do something.

---

---

---

If police can't contend with people and the weapons legally available to them, then it doesn't seem like good guys with guns are much help.

---

You don't think police are much help? Ok. About par for the course with you.

Non of the laws or bans being suggested have worked either.

---

Well, did the security officers do anything in these situations? It sounds like they actively chose not to. If they can't contend with the firepower these school shooters have, then what's needed?

---

I'm not paid to come up with the solution nor do I think I'm smart enough to know what it is. I just know that the bans/laws being proposed don't really seem like they're effective as displayed by those cities/school zones/ gun free zones where the bad people are still able to do bad things.

statefan91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

statefan91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

statefan91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

I'm not paid to come up with the solution nor do I think I'm smart enough to know what it is. I just know that what's being proposed doesn't really seem like it's effective as displayed by those incidents where the cops were too scared to do something.

---

---

---

If police can't contend with people and the weapons legally available to them, then it doesn't seem like good guys with guns are much help.

---

You don't think police are much help? Ok. About par for the course with you.

Non of the laws or bans being suggested have worked either.

---

Well, did the security officers do anything in these situations? It sounds like they actively chose not to. If they can't contend with the firepower these school shooters have, then what's needed?

---

Were they told to stand down? You don't know!!!

A police report would have been filed by the end of the day on Tuesday. Let's see what that says. It may be fine, we don't know!!!

I think we have a common thread with all these Evil people committing these crimes. I wish we could understand this part more and deal with this someway…

statefan91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

statefan91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

statefan91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

I'm not paid to come up with the solution nor do I think I'm smart enough to know what it is. I just know that what's being proposed doesn't really seem like it's effective as displayed by those incidents where the cops were too scared to do something.

---

---

---

If police can't contend with people and the weapons legally available to them, then it doesn't seem like good guys with guns are much help.

---

You don't think police are much help? Ok. About par for the course with you.

Non of the laws or bans being suggested have worked either.

---

Well, did the security officers do anything in these situations? It sounds like they actively chose not to. If they can't contend with the firepower these school shooters have, then what's needed?

---

You're telling me that cops don't have AR-15s? They don't have body armor too?

If so, yet another lie from the anti-gun Left.

All the Marxist Left does is lie. Their strategy is to lie at every step of the process, with their ultimate goal being the total destruction of the Second Amendment and gun rights.

First they lie claiming "no one is coming for your guns". Then when it's too obvious that they ARE coming for our guns and admitting they want to repeal the Second Amendment, they start lying and claiming "the Founders wouldn't support the Second Amendment if they were alive today".

But you expect us all to just forget that you've been lying the whole time, with the first lie being "no one is coming for your guns".

caryking said:

---

statefan91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

statefan91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

statefan91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

I'm not paid to come up with the solution nor do I think I'm smart enough to know what it is. I just know that what's being proposed doesn't really seem like it's effective as displayed by those incidents where the cops were too scared to do something.

---

---

---

If police can't contend with people and the weapons legally available to them, then it doesn't seem like good guys with guns are much help.

---

You don't think police are much help? Ok. About par for the course with you.

Non of the laws or bans being suggested have worked either.

---

Well, did the security officers do anything in these situations? It sounds like they actively chose not to. If they can't contend with the firepower these school shooters have, then what's needed?

---

I think we have a common thread with all these Evil people committing these crimes. I wish we could understand this part more and deal with this someway…

---

Part of that common thread you choose to ignore is that that it is also with automated rifles that allow them to kill quickly and indiscriminately.
Almost never with knives, once with a car, never with a baseball bat or brass knuckles. Almost always with a gun they don't need unless they want to kill people. That part matters.

GuerrillaPack said:

---

You're telling me that cops don't have AR-15s? They don't have body armor too?

If so, yet another lie from the anti-gun Left.

All the Marxist Left does is lie. Their strategy is to lie at every step of the process, with their ultimate goal being the total destruction of the Second Amendment and gun rights.

First they lie claiming "no one is coming for your guns". Then when it's too obvious that they ARE coming for our guns and admitting they want to repeal the Second Amendment, they start lying and claiming "the Founders wouldn't support the Second Amendment if they were alive today".

But you expect us all to just forget that you've been lying the whole time, with the first lie being "no one is coming for your guns".

---

So they have the fire power but just choose not to help the elementary school children?

statefan91 said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

You're telling me that cops don't have AR-15s? They don't have body armor too?

If so, yet another lie from the anti-gun Left.

All the Marxist Left does is lie. Their strategy is to lie at every step of the process, with their ultimate goal being the total destruction of the Second Amendment and gun rights.

First they lie claiming "no one is coming for your guns". Then when it's too obvious that they ARE coming for our guns and admitting they want to repeal the Second Amendment, they start lying and claiming "the Founders wouldn't support the Second Amendment if they were alive today".

But you expect us all to just forget that you've been lying the whole time, with the first lie being "no one is coming for your guns".

---

So they have the fire power but just choose not to help the elementary school children?

---

Who knows. That has no bearing upon whether citizens have the right to keep and bear arms, as guaranteed by the Second Amendment.

If the police are unwilling to stop criminals, that's a separate issue.

statefan91 said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

You're telling me that cops don't have AR-15s? They don't have body armor too?

If so, yet another lie from the anti-gun Left.

All the Marxist Left does is lie. Their strategy is to lie at every step of the process, with their ultimate goal being the total destruction of the Second Amendment and gun rights.

First they lie claiming "no one is coming for your guns". Then when it's too obvious that they ARE coming for our guns and admitting they want to repeal the Second Amendment, they start lying and claiming "the Founders wouldn't support the Second Amendment if they were alive today".

But you expect us all to just forget that you've been lying the whole time, with the first lie being "no one is coming for your guns".

---

So they have the fire power but just choose not to help the elementary school children?

---

What do you think? Do you think police don't have the firepower? Do you think police choose not to help elementary school children? Or are you not paid to know these answers either?

packgrad said:

---

statefan91 said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

So they have the fire power but just choose not to help the elementary school children?

---

---

What do you think? Do you think police don't have the firepower? Do you think police choose not to help elementary school children? Or are you not paid to know these answers either?

---

Well, the evidence and firing of two officers from Parkland shows that they chose not to help.

I guess we'll see about this most recent one.

I can't imagine armed parents standing around outside the school while the cops do nothing. I am not advocating for a bunch of vigilantes to be the normal solution for protecting a school, but I know that if I had been outside my child's school and the cops did nothing, I would have felt compelled to enter and find the shooter with the full intent to put him down.

If we can't count on the folks who were hired to do the specific job of protecting us, we have no chance regardless of what laws we pass and subsequently ignore.

Agreed.

Packchem91 said:

---

caryking said:

---

statefan91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

statefan91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

statefan91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

I'm not paid to come up with the solution nor do I think I'm smart enough to know what it is. I just know that what's being proposed doesn't really seem like it's effective as displayed by those incidents where the cops were too scared to do something.

---

---

---

If police can't contend with people and the weapons legally available to them, then it doesn't seem like good guys with guns are much help.

---

You don't think police are much help? Ok. About par for the course with you.

Non of the laws or bans being suggested have worked either.

---

Well, did the security officers do anything in these situations? It sounds like they actively chose not to. If they can't contend with the firepower these school shooters have, then what's needed?

---

I think we have a common thread with all these Evil people committing these crimes. I wish we could understand this part more and deal with this someway…

---

Part of that common thread you choose to ignore is that that it is also with automated rifles that allow them to kill quickly and indiscriminately.
Almost never with knives, once with a car, never with a baseball bat or brass knuckles. Almost always with a gun they don't need unless they want to kill people. That part matters.

---

Unfortunately, you always bring up the instrument and not the problem. A gun, bat, dump truck, knife, brass knuckle, tree limb, fart, and anything else is an object used by a deranged individual. Now, I don't know whether this kid or any of the other people committing these heinous crimes are deranged; however, they appear to live in the same lifestyle, based on what we know so far.

PackFansXL said:

---

I can't imagine armed parents standing around outside the school while the cops do nothing. I am not advocating for a bunch of vigilantes to be the normal solution for protecting a school, but I know that if I had been outside my child's school and the cops did nothing, I would have felt compelled to enter and find the shooter with the full intent to put him down.

If we can't count on the folks who were hired to do the specific job of protecting us, we have no chance regardless of what laws we pass and subsequently ignore.

---

Agreed with this. I'd be interested to know what the standard protocol is though.....once the guy is in, do you go in too and risk shooting a bunch of students in the cross-fire? (I get what human nature is to react, but would think there have to be established protocols, no??)

Seems bigger of how do you prevent him from getting in to begin with. And sounds like there was an opportunity to stop that.

I agree. Because if police really waited 40 minutes to enter that school they are cowards and are complicit. https://t.co/0RMx7QHSnU

— Carmine Sabia (@CarmineSabia) May 26, 2022

caryking said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

caryking said:

---

statefan91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

statefan91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

statefan91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

I'm not paid to come up with the solution nor do I think I'm smart enough to know what it is. I just know that what's being proposed doesn't really seem like it's effective as displayed by those incidents where the cops were too scared to do something.

---

---

---

If police can't contend with people and the weapons legally available to them, then it doesn't seem like good guys with guns are much help.

---

You don't think police are much help? Ok. About par for the course with you.

Non of the laws or bans being suggested have worked either.

---

Well, did the security officers do anything in these situations? It sounds like they actively chose not to. If they can't contend with the firepower these school shooters have, then what's needed?

---

I think we have a common thread with all these Evil people committing these crimes. I wish we could understand this part more and deal with this someway…

---

Part of that common thread you choose to ignore is that that it is also with automated rifles that allow them to kill quickly and indiscriminately.
Almost never with knives, once with a car, never with a baseball bat or brass knuckles. Almost always with a gun they don't need unless they want to kill people. That part matters.

---

Unfortunately, you always bring up the instrument and not the problem. A gun, bat, dump truck, knife, brass knuckle, tree limb, fart, and anything else is an object used by a deranged individual. Now, I don't know whether this kid or any of the other people committing these heinous crimes are deranged; however, they appear to live in the same lifestyle, based on what we know so far.

---

#ignoranceisbliss,iguess.

Which instrument did he choose? When was the last time those other instruments were used? Its not remotely comparable, but you equate them. I know you know better, so that is willful ignorance.

As for the person....I've mentioned here multiple times that there is clearly a person problem too. But the laws just allowed this guy to buy up two ARs and plenty of ammo. There is something inherently wrong with that, and the ignorance of it being a problem.

PackFansXL said:

---

I can't imagine armed parents standing around outside the school while the cops do nothing. I am not advocating for a bunch of vigilantes to be the normal solution for protecting a school, but I know that if I had been outside my child's school and the cops did nothing, I would have felt compelled to enter and find the shooter with the full intent to put him down.

If we can't count on the folks who were hired to do the specific job of protecting us, we have no chance regardless of what laws we pass and subsequently ignore.

---

We definitely have a chance, but it's clear the chance shouldn't be almost exclusively dependent on taking down the shooter once the violence starts. That's obviously better than nothing but it's too reactive.

That's like a heart transplant being the go-to solution for advanced heart disease. Way more attention needs to get paid to proactive measures to head off the disease before it becomes life-threatening.

More adequately fund and destigmatize mental health services and restrict access to firearms for those whose mental health or situation dictates they shouldn't own them.

Focus more on producing fewer shooters, and arming them less lethally, than taking them down once they start shooting.

Packchem91 said:

---

PackFansXL said:

---

I can't imagine armed parents standing around outside the school while the cops do nothing. I am not advocating for a bunch of vigilantes to be the normal solution for protecting a school, but I know that if I had been outside my child's school and the cops did nothing, I would have felt compelled to enter and find the shooter with the full intent to put him down.

If we can't count on the folks who were hired to do the specific job of protecting us, we have no chance regardless of what laws we pass and subsequently ignore.

---

...once the guy is in, do you go in too and risk shooting a bunch of students in the cross-fire?

---

In this situation, could it really get any worse?

Quote:

---

"Part of that common thread you choose to ignore is that that it is also with automated rifles that allow them to kill quickly and indiscriminately"

---

Wow....

Tell me you don't know a damn thing about guns without telling me you don't know a damn thing about guns....

Best thing about the lefties is they are always smarter than anyone else in the room. Even when they have no idea what the hell they are talking about.

Case in point.

I haven't read up much yet on what is claimed to have actually happened.

Is it true that this guy shot his grandmother at home first, then the cops were chasing/following him in his vehicle as he drove from his home to the school, then the guy crashes his car at the school and gets out and somehow gets inside the school. Then the cops just wait around for an hour or more outside the school doing nothing, while he's inside shooting people?

Is that what supposedly happened?

How on earth do the cops have this level of incompetence?

Packchem91 said:

---

caryking said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

caryking said:

---

statefan91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

statefan91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

statefan91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

I'm not paid to come up with the solution nor do I think I'm smart enough to know what it is. I just know that what's being proposed doesn't really seem like it's effective as displayed by those incidents where the cops were too scared to do something.

---

---

---

If police can't contend with people and the weapons legally available to them, then it doesn't seem like good guys with guns are much help.

---

You don't think police are much help? Ok. About par for the course with you.

Non of the laws or bans being suggested have worked either.

---

Well, did the security officers do anything in these situations? It sounds like they actively chose not to. If they can't contend with the firepower these school shooters have, then what's needed?

---

I think we have a common thread with all these Evil people committing these crimes. I wish we could understand this part more and deal with this someway…

---

Part of that common thread you choose to ignore is that that it is also with automated rifles that allow them to kill quickly and indiscriminately.
Almost never with knives, once with a car, never with a baseball bat or brass knuckles. Almost always with a gun they don't need unless they want to kill people. That part matters.

---

Unfortunately, you always bring up the instrument and not the problem. A gun, bat, dump truck, knife, brass knuckle, tree limb, fart, and anything else is an object used by a deranged individual. Now, I don't know whether this kid or any of the other people committing these heinous crimes are deranged; however, they appear to live in the same lifestyle, based on what we know so far.

---

#ignoranceisbliss,iguess.

Which instrument did he choose? When was the last time those other instruments were used? Its not remotely comparable, but you equate them. I know you know better, so that is willful ignorance.

As for the person....I've mentioned here multiple times that there is clearly a person problem too. But the laws just allowed this guy to buy up two ARs and plenty of ammo. There is something inherently wrong with that, and the ignorance of it being a problem.

---

You don't know what laws were avoided that allowed this purchase, so you?

And yes, those instrument are different; however, they are an instrument that have been used, including a fart

Chem, the ignorance is you assuming a whole lot, at this point. Have you even seen the police report? This is the issue!!! People, like you, jumping on a bandwagon, that fits "Your" narrative. Try and rationalize that "Your" narrative puts others on the defensive, when it doesn't have to…

Just slow down, express your concerns, and let this play out. The Buffalo event as well this event and all other events going back to columbine needs to help us drive solutions.

We have the use of a certain type of firearm, got it! What are the commonalities in the people! What are the commonalities of the firearm buying? What are the commonalities in other areas.

Your words like: there is "No" need for an AR rifle is your opinion and very divisive! Just Stop!!!! Or, go with somebody hunting and learn!

Here's a little information for the "concerned left."

Still waiting on the link to the threads with all of their outrage about the left run cities across America.

This is just ONE left run city...

https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/map-at-least-276-kids-16-and-younger-have-been-shot-in-chicago-since-2021/

PackFansXL said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Here's a great start at middle ground. And you are correct Big Beautiful Wolf, gun bans don't work.

https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/pass-and-enforce-red-flag-laws-now

---

I encourage you BBW to take the 5 mins to read this. This responds to all of your points. Gun laws on the books now are there to try and address your point that shootings related to crime don't get people as upset as mass shootings involving children.

It also addresses that new restrictions or bans on gun sales or guns doesn't address the problem at hand. But there is middle ground if everyone comes together and crafts well written red flag law..

As to your point about why threads aren't started about crime in other cities - I think it's very sad that shootings that occur as a result of gang and drug violence in inner cities don't get as much attention as these mass shooting do. Those numbers should be just as jarring as yesterdays shootings but the violence has gone on for so long that I think people are numb to it.

I look locally here to Durham, as a native of that city and I am very concerned and saddened by the violence that continues in areas of the city. You and I have had good discussions in the past about the whys and whats and the how to go about fixing it.

As someone who had a personal connection to people killed at the Virginia Tech mass shooting I do get extremely bothered when the next one happens. Especially when they involve young children. That tears me up inside and I struggle with that tremendously. I appreciate the advocacy for the 2nd Amendment and what it means, but at some point we have to collectively shed our tribalism ideals and come to the table with a solution that yes, impinges on that right, but doesn't completely eliminate the ability and the right to bear arms. That's why I think a red flag law might be the solution.

---

Thanks for posting the link on Red Flag laws. The proposal by Gov. Ducey looks much more promising than the usual polarized political solutions. I did find it interesting that New York already has such a law and that did not stop the shooting in Buffalo. Unfortunately, even with well crafted laws, people still have to enforce them.

Quote:

---

In 2018 after the horrific school shooting in Parkland, Florida, Arizona Gov. Doug Ducey proposed a comprehensive safe schools program that incorporated a series of measures that were based on careful analysis of each and every significant school shooting since Columbine. I'd urge you to read the entire document. Ducey proposed enhanced background checks, an increased security presence at schools, and increased mental health resources. He also proposed a red flag law, and to support that proposal he included this chart (which may be easier to read here):

---

---

I want to redirect to a plan proposed after careful study of every significant school shooting since Columbine. I urge y'all to read the article. I am confident few bothered because there are some interesting points made in that piece and no one but me has commented since hokie asked us to read it.

I think the proposal has merit but it remains useless if the authorities don't do their jobs. Currently, the FBI usually does nothing when they find someone should not have been sold a firearm, apparently we have police officers unwilling to take down armed challengers at schools, we ignore the mentally ill, and people fail to turn in / detain sick individuals like the guy in Buffalo.

caryking said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

caryking said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

caryking said:

---

statefan91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

statefan91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

statefan91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

I'm not paid to come up with the solution nor do I think I'm smart enough to know what it is. I just know that what's being proposed doesn't really seem like it's effective as displayed by those incidents where the cops were too scared to do something.

---

---

---

If police can't contend with people and the weapons legally available to them, then it doesn't seem like good guys with guns are much help.

---

You don't think police are much help? Ok. About par for the course with you.

Non of the laws or bans being suggested have worked either.

---

Well, did the security officers do anything in these situations? It sounds like they actively chose not to. If they can't contend with the firepower these school shooters have, then what's needed?

---

I think we have a common thread with all these Evil people committing these crimes. I wish we could understand this part more and deal with this someway…

---

Part of that common thread you choose to ignore is that that it is also with automated rifles that allow them to kill quickly and indiscriminately.
Almost never with knives, once with a car, never with a baseball bat or brass knuckles. Almost always with a gun they don't need unless they want to kill people. That part matters.

---

Unfortunately, you always bring up the instrument and not the problem. A gun, bat, dump truck, knife, brass knuckle, tree limb, fart, and anything else is an object used by a deranged individual. Now, I don't know whether this kid or any of the other people committing these heinous crimes are deranged; however, they appear to live in the same lifestyle, based on what we know so far.

---

#ignoranceisbliss,iguess.

Which instrument did he choose? When was the last time those other instruments were used? Its not remotely comparable, but you equate them. I know you know better, so that is willful ignorance.

As for the person....I've mentioned here multiple times that there is clearly a person problem too. But the laws just allowed this guy to buy up two ARs and plenty of ammo. There is something inherently wrong with that, and the ignorance of it being a problem.

---

You don't know what laws were avoided that allowed this purchase, so you?

And yes, those instrument are different; however, they are an instrument that have been used, including a fart

Chem, the ignorance is you assuming a whole lot, at this point. Have you even seen the police report? This is the issue!!! People, like you, jumping on a bandwagon, that fits "Your" narrative. Try and rationalize that "Your" narrative puts others on the defensive, when it doesn't have to…

Just slow down, express your concerns, and let this play out. The Buffalo event as well this event and all other events going back to columbine needs to help us drive solutions.

We have the use of a certain type of firearm, got it! What are the commonalities in the people! What are the commonalities of the firearm buying? What are the commonalities in other areas.

Your words like: there is "No" need for an AR rifle is your opinion and very divisive! Just Stop!!!! Or, go with somebody hunting and learn!

---

Actually, saying "you're not going to infringe at all on my 2nd amendment rights" and that is just tough luck that a whole bunch of people got caught up in death because you're not going to infringe upon my rights --- which is exactly what you have said -- is a bit more divisive than me calling out the use of ARs.

GuerrillaPack said:

---

I haven't read up much yet on what is claimed to have actually happened.

Is it true that this guy shot his grandmother at home first, then the cops were chasing/following him in his vehicle as he drove from his home to the school, then the guy crashes his car at the school and gets out and somehow gets inside the school. Then the cops just wait around for an hour or more outside the school doing nothing, while he's inside shooting people?

Is that what supposedly happened?

How on earth do the cops have this level of incompetence?

---

Maybe they thought they were playing in a hollywood production, like some mensas on here are claiming happened in Buffalo.