Packchem91 said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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Packchem91 said:

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Oh, i am disputing your facts. Your biased source, catturd....says in its tweet:
227 mass killings, then lists 4 different groups....that adds up to 258 total.
I tend to distrust polls/stats that most basic premise is flawed.

---

LOL . As if there are any unbiased sources.

Is CNN biased? Is the NY Times biased? Is NBC, ABC, and CBS biased? Of course they are. 99% of the Establishment lamestream press and media is fully controlled by far Left Marxist ideologues.

The Establishment is completely biased in favor of pushing their totalitarian, Marxist, big Government, far Left agenda.

An "average Joe" on social media has 1000 times more credibility, and willingness to pursue the truth.

---

did you look at catturd's site? Come on man, there is bias, and then there is unabased over the top bias. What you are reallly saying of course is, an average Joe has the ability to come up with ideas that agree with my line of thinking, so they are good. I thought you were smart enough to know the difference, but clearly not

---

How the hell are "FACTS" biased? You think they make up the numbers? Damn.... you are a pretty damn sad individual.

Just take the "L" and move the hell on. You lost another debate, handedly might I add, and you still are flailing for everyone to see.

Admit it.

BBW12OG said:

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Packchem91 said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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Packchem91 said:

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Oh, i am disputing your facts. Your biased source, catturd....says in its tweet:
227 mass killings, then lists 4 different groups....that adds up to 258 total.
I tend to distrust polls/stats that most basic premise is flawed.

---

LOL . As if there are any unbiased sources.

Is CNN biased? Is the NY Times biased? Is NBC, ABC, and CBS biased? Of course they are. 99% of the Establishment lamestream press and media is fully controlled by far Left Marxist ideologues.

The Establishment is completely biased in favor of pushing their totalitarian, Marxist, big Government, far Left agenda.

An "average Joe" on social media has 1000 times more credibility, and willingness to pursue the truth.

---

did you look at catturd's site? Come on man, there is bias, and then there is unabased over the top bias. What you are reallly saying of course is, an average Joe has the ability to come up with ideas that agree with my line of thinking, so they are good. I thought you were smart enough to know the difference, but clearly not

---

How the hell are "FACTS" biased? You think they make up the numbers? Damn.... you are a pretty damn sad individual.

Just take the "L" and move the hell on. You lost another debate, handedly might I add, and you still are flailing for everyone to see.

Admit it.

---

LOL, yes. as I just showed, they CLEARLY made up numbers. When your stated quantity and then your quantity by subgroup don't add up byt a lot, you made somethign up.

Packchem91 said:

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BBW12OG said:

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Packchem91 said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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Packchem91 said:

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Oh, i am disputing your facts. Your biased source, catturd....says in its tweet:
227 mass killings, then lists 4 different groups....that adds up to 258 total.
I tend to distrust polls/stats that most basic premise is flawed.

---

LOL . As if there are any unbiased sources.

Is CNN biased? Is the NY Times biased? Is NBC, ABC, and CBS biased? Of course they are. 99% of the Establishment lamestream press and media is fully controlled by far Left Marxist ideologues.

The Establishment is completely biased in favor of pushing their totalitarian, Marxist, big Government, far Left agenda.

An "average Joe" on social media has 1000 times more credibility, and willingness to pursue the truth.

---

did you look at catturd's site? Come on man, there is bias, and then there is unabased over the top bias. What you are reallly saying of course is, an average Joe has the ability to come up with ideas that agree with my line of thinking, so they are good. I thought you were smart enough to know the difference, but clearly not

---

How the hell are "FACTS" biased? You think they make up the numbers? Damn.... you are a pretty damn sad individual.

Just take the "L" and move the hell on. You lost another debate, handedly might I add, and you still are flailing for everyone to see.

Admit it.

---

LOL, yes. as I just showed, they CLEARLY made up numbers. When your stated quantity and then your quantity by subgroup don't add up byt a lot, you made somethign up.

---

LOL... You ate a lot of crayons and licked a lot of windows as a child didn't you?

LMAO.... so predictable and sad.

PackFansXL said:

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We have talked about red flag laws. Jim Geraghty of National Review made a case for red flag laws before stating the following:

Quote:

---

But my friend Cam Edwards points out that there's a flaw in most of the red-flag laws on the books in the 19 states that have them. In just about all of the cases, the court system and police seize the firearms of the troubled individual and then . . . that's it. There's no requirement for subsequent counseling or mental-health treatment. The state has taken away that person's guns and called it a day. That emotionally disturbed or threatening person is still free to attack someone with a kitchen knife or try to run down someone in their car. As D. J. Jaffe wrote in 2019, "It makes no sense to let people who are known to be seriously mentally ill and believed to be dangerous go without treatment, even if they have had their weapons taken away. It's not compassionate. And it can be dangerous."

---

---

ETA: I reposted this because I believe it is important and I didn't want it to get lost in the ongoing spat.

Here you go.. I was wrong. African Americans are only 12.4% of the population.

https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/08/improved-race-ethnicity-measures-reveal-united-states-population-much-more-multiracial.html#:~:text=In%202020%2C%20the%20Black%20or,million%20and%2012.6%25%20in%202010.

More "FACTS" for my window licking, crayon eating little buddy....

https://www.everytown.org/issues/gun-violence-black-americans/

And I posted the stats from the FBI because the definition of a "mass shooting" is "the killing of four or more people......"

So when you have drive by shootings at cookouts, funerals, house parties etc.... and they result in more than 4 deaths it is a "mass shooting."

https://www.maciverinstitute.com/2022/05/debunking-every-major-mass-shooting-myth/

Here is the list of the "mass shootings" in 2022. Do your research and tell me what the percentages of each racial demographic in on them.

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting

Now... when you accuse me of distorting or putting out misinformation you damn well better have the receipts.

Here you go... some more "updated" numbers...

46 shot, 6 killed in Chicago.

15 shot, 12 killed in Philadelphia.

3 shot, 4 killed in Baltimore.

No tweets from Joe Biden. No press conferences from Chuck Schumer. No coverage from the fake news.

— Eric Greitens (@EricGreitens) May 31, 2022

MARXISTS could care less bout their constituents...all they care about is absolute power. Zero cares, thoughts, prayers given by the lefties on any of this. And it happens on a daily basis.

Pathetic how they are opportunists when it comes to the deaths of children and how quick they are to politicize each and every one of these tragic events.

caryking said:

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PackFansXL said:

---

We have talked about red flag laws. Jim Geraghty of National Review made a case for red flag laws before stating the following:

Quote:

---

But my friend Cam Edwards points out that there's a flaw in most of the red-flag laws on the books in the 19 states that have them. In just about all of the cases, the court system and police seize the firearms of the troubled individual and then . . . that's it. There's no requirement for subsequent counseling or mental-health treatment. The state has taken away that person's guns and called it a day. That emotionally disturbed or threatening person is still free to attack someone with a kitchen knife or try to run down someone in their car. As D. J. Jaffe wrote in 2019, "It makes no sense to let people who are known to be seriously mentally ill and believed to be dangerous go without treatment, even if they have had their weapons taken away. It's not compassionate. And it can be dangerous."

---

---

Can't remember , what is the check any buyer has to go through when buying a gun in NC?

---

At point of sale from a FFL, the purchasor must fill out Form 4473, then pass a NICS (National Instant Criminal Background Check System) background check. In addition, in the state of North Carolina, if the firearm is a handgun, the purchasor must also have either a Concealed Carry Permit OR a Handgun Purchase Permit, either of which are issued by the County Sherriff. There are additional hoops to jump through and fees to pay if the firearm/accessory is an NFA item, such as a short barrel rifle/shotgun or a suppressor/silencer.

Depending on the county it can also take months to get the ccp or pistol purchase permit. I know when I got pistol purchase first, and ccp second, they both took a while in Durham.

packgrad said:

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Depending on the county it can also take months to get the ccp or pistol purchase permit. I know when I got pistol purchase first, and ccp second, they both took a while in Durham.

---

Chatham County I got my first pistol permit after college was a day or two. CCP.... took the class in Montgomery County and had the permit a day later. Now that has been about 20+ years ago so I have no idea how long it takes now. I also got the allotted ( 6 ) permits when I purchased my first one. And I do that each time I go to get them. May as well have them on hand.

When the SCOTUS makes its' ruling on the BS case from New York things are going to be more universal and better for law abiding citizens.

Last time I checked only the criminals are the ones breaking existing gun laws... it's like murder isn't illegal. Maybe we should start by passing laws that would keep people from killing one another.

PackFansXL said:

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PackFansXL said:

---

We have talked about red flag laws. Jim Geraghty of National Review made a case for red flag laws before stating the following:

Quote:

---

But my friend Cam Edwards points out that there's a flaw in most of the red-flag laws on the books in the 19 states that have them. In just about all of the cases, the court system and police seize the firearms of the troubled individual and then . . . that's it. There's no requirement for subsequent counseling or mental-health treatment. The state has taken away that person's guns and called it a day. That emotionally disturbed or threatening person is still free to attack someone with a kitchen knife or try to run down someone in their car. As D. J. Jaffe wrote in 2019, "It makes no sense to let people who are known to be seriously mentally ill and believed to be dangerous go without treatment, even if they have had their weapons taken away. It's not compassionate. And it can be dangerous."

---

---

ETA: I reposted this because I believe it is important and I didn't want it to get lost in the ongoing spat.

---

Even unrelated to the specific debate here, there is no question that mental health is an almost overwhelming issue in the US. Long overshadowed from funding, easily dismissable by family members who just don't want to accept that dad/husband/son/etc may have a mental illness, etc.

Even if those people so affected don't have or have access to weapons, it is a terribly bad and sad, situation that doesn't seem to get better

Quote:

---

The best information we have comes from the Department of Justice, which found in 2019 that less than 2 percent of all prisoners had a firearm obtained from a retail source at the time they committed their crimes. A different 2013 study by researchers at the Bloomberg School of Public Health at Johns Hopkins found that only 13 percent of the offenders in the state prison population obtained their firearms from a retail source.

Given the very weak statistical relationship between buying a gun from a gun dealer and committing a crime with that gun, why is there so much focus on federally licensed firearms dealers and the people who do business with them?

The answer is that this conversation has almost nothing to do with violent crime, and almost nothing to do with policies aimed at reducing violent crime.

The gun-control debate is first and foremost a culture-war issue for Democrats. There is a great deal of violent crime in the United States, and that crime is concentrated in big cities over which Democrats enjoy an effective monopoly of political power. The people who commit most of the murders in the United States and the people who most often die in those murders check a lot of Democratic-voter demographic boxes: They are very disproportionately low-income African Americans in urban areas. Democrats are desperate to put a more Republican-looking face on the violent-crime problem, preferably one that is older, white, middle-aged, rural, southern, and Evangelical. That is the reason for the focus on the National Rifle Association in particular and on gun dealers and "gun culture" in general. As is so often the case in our contemporary politics, what we are talking about matters mostly because it is a way of not talking about something else.

---

Source: National Review

BTW, has anybody handled the Springfield Armory Hellcat Pro? I did the other day and absolutely love the way it feels. Probably my next pistol…

Quote:

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The grandmother of Uvalde school shooter Salvador Ramos was an employee at the school, according to a friend of the family.

Speaking to the New York Post, the source who wished to remain unnamed said that the grandmother, 66-year-old Cecilia "Sally" Martinez Gonzales, had been a teacher's aide at the school, a fact confirmed by public records of employees in the Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District. Though the type and duration of her employment is unclear, she was on the school's payroll at the time of the incident.

The source also claimed that Gonzales was known to both adult victims, teachers Irma Garcia and Eva Mireles, who had taught at the school for several years, as well as many students who were killed. "She knows a lot of the kids who died and was close to them," the source said.

---

National Review

caryking said:

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BTW, has anybody handled the Springfield Armory Hellcat Pro? I did the other day and absolutely love the way it feels. Probably my next pistol…

---

I checked it out a couple of weeks ago. Though I am not a fan of micro 9's in general (just seem too small to me), nor am I a fan of Springfield Armory (the company), I must admit that I agree - the Hellcat Pro felt pretty good in the hand. I'm more of a sub-compact guy for carry purposes, though. Of the micros that I have handled, i'd say I like the Hellcat Pro and the Sig P365XL the best from a feel standpoint. Haven't shot any of them, though, so hard to say which I would actually like the best. I hear the S&W Shield Plus is the flattest shooter of the bunch, but again...heresay...haven't actually shot one.

We need a gun talk/2A thread

BREAKING: The Uvalde PD and Uvalde Independent School District police force are no longer cooperating with the Texas Dept. of Public Safety's investigation into Robb Elementary School shooting, multiple law enforcement sources tell @ABC News. https://t.co/ORQTMhDstS

— ABC News (@ABC) May 31, 2022

No surprise that ABC is providing fake news.

Uvalde, Texas police cooperating with state in school shooting probe, district PD chief not responding https://t.co/VOnwPlenua

— Fox News (@FoxNews) May 31, 2022

More "FACTS" for my window licking, crayon eating little buddy....

This is, in fact calling someone an idiot, which btw you claim you've never done and would never do here.

hokiewolf said:

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More "FACTS" for my window licking, crayon eating little buddy....

This is, in fact calling someone an idiot, which btw you claim you've never done and would never do here.

---

I kind of took it as an indicator he thought i was a dotard that his quoted sources was making up "facts"? Is that the same thing as idiot? It did sting a little, TBH.

PackFansXL said:

---

Quote:

---

The best information we have comes from the Department of Justice, which found in 2019 that less than 2 percent of all prisoners had a firearm obtained from a retail source at the time they committed their crimes. A different 2013 study by researchers at the Bloomberg School of Public Health at Johns Hopkins found that only 13 percent of the offenders in the state prison population obtained their firearms from a retail source.

Given the very weak statistical relationship between buying a gun from a gun dealer and committing a crime with that gun, why is there so much focus on federally licensed firearms dealers and the people who do business with them?

The answer is that this conversation has almost nothing to do with violent crime, and almost nothing to do with policies aimed at reducing violent crime.

The gun-control debate is first and foremost a culture-war issue for Democrats. There is a great deal of violent crime in the United States, and that crime is concentrated in big cities over which Democrats enjoy an effective monopoly of political power. The people who commit most of the murders in the United States and the people who most often die in those murders check a lot of Democratic-voter demographic boxes: They are very disproportionately low-income African Americans in urban areas. Democrats are desperate to put a more Republican-looking face on the violent-crime problem, preferably one that is older, white, middle-aged, rural, southern, and Evangelical. That is the reason for the focus on the National Rifle Association in particular and on gun dealers and "gun culture" in general. As is so often the case in our contemporary politics, what we are talking about matters mostly because it is a way of not talking about something else.

---

Source: National Review

---

I mean, we know that source is biased as well, admittedly leaning one direction.
But is that really what this is about, the Dems pointing away from failed inner city policies?
Other than on here since Uvalde and Buffalo, is there really any national discussion of inner cities or crime committed there?

People are crying out not because some banger and his girl got shot up in a drive by as retaliation for an earlier crime.....people are mad because people are taking powerful weapons intended to inflict mass casualties quickly into stores, schools, churches and places of business that are NOT in those crime-inficted areas.

To me, its 180 degrees from what the article suggests. I'd say the article above, and the sudden concerns about inner city crime voiced by BBW and GP is the deflector here. But, maybe I'm crazy.

No...you, like a typical lefty, like to politicize "certain" mass shootings in order to promote your MARXIST agendas while blatantly ignoring others that occur on a weekly if not daily basis for fear of offending your main voting block.

When you and your party start showing the same care and concern for the "gang bangers" as you do the white Christian male who commits crimes let me know. Until then you and your party are nothing be opportunistic hypocrites.

Other words typical lefty.

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/texas-news/teacher-closed-propped-open-door-before-uvalde-school-shooting-police/2981940/

statefan91 said:

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https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/texas-news/teacher-closed-propped-open-door-before-uvalde-school-shooting-police/2981940/

---

saw that.....amazing how the story changes daily.

statefan91 said:

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https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/texas-news/teacher-closed-propped-open-door-before-uvalde-school-shooting-police/2981940/

---

Clean up on aisle 5.....

So for nearly a week they said she propped open the door. Like many teachers who slide out the back or side doors to take a smoke I'm betting she had a wedge or a rock used to come in and out. It happens at lots of schools.

To save further save face they concoct a story saying the "electronic locks" didn't engage. What school has electronic locks on side and back doors of hallways? The only "electronic locks" I have ever come across were main doors and 99% of those have been front doors beside/in front or entering the main office.

Just like most lefty run cities/towns they protect their own.

Funny how the Irish Fake Mexican supporter can't talk to the FBI but damn sure made it to be sworn in for his City Council seat isn't it? Guess they are working diligently to craft a narrative that pins this completely on the gun and not the ineptness of the lefty police chief and his chicken **** officers.

Typical...

Packchem91 said:

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BBW12OG said:

---

Packchem91 said:

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BBW12OG said:

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For all of those "concerned" with the shootings why don't you discuss the fact that handguns are ILLEGAL in Chicago?

Why is it never addressed or discussed. This was just one weekend. Not one of you lefties have ever started a thread about how left run cities are basically third world country warzones. Wonder why that is?

Please shed some light on why you ignore Chicago, Baltimore, D.C., St. Louis, L.A. and Detroit? Why do those shootings and killings not matter enough to discuss?

We know...........

40 people shot.

FORTY.

In a city where handguns are illegal.

It’s not about guns.

Or the law-abiding. https://t.co/Dy7eFeXd0M

— Sebastian Gorka DrG (@SebGorka) May 30, 2022

---

two thoughts ---
first, I've said on here many times taht it has been proven over and over that no one cares about inner city poverty / killings. Maybe briefly leading up to elections, but other than that, no one cares.
Your stats above aren't new or unique, they occur in certain cities all the time and have been for years, most of them are drug/gang/poverty related, and no one really sheds a tear.

second, now report your findings on numbers comparing how many mass shootings occurred in Canada, UK, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Japan, S Korea, Australia, India, and China over the month of May as compared to the US.

Look, we can all disagree on what should be done to address the problems, but one thing i think is clear. It may not be "the guns", but its also not just "the people" that are the problem. It's a mixture. And if the focus is on just one, nothing constructive will happen, an we'll continue to have these issues.

---

Now show me the stats on who/which demographic is responsible for a majority of "mass shootings" in the United States.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/table-43

https://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/ucr.asp?table_in=2

Maybe it's not a gun problem. Maybe it's a cultural problem where 17% of the population is involved with over 75% of ALL VIOLENT CRIMES.

You don't see that as an issue then there is no helping you. Also why don't you do some homework and give me the demographic breakdowns on the populations of the countries you listed and questioned me about. I did my homework. Pretend you aren't a grifting lefty and do some yourself. Put your facts out here to support your pathetic argument.

---

Of course its an issue. Poverty, missing parents, and no hope turns people to other alternatives which are often drugs and gangs. This isn't new. Drugs and gangs beget violence. Violence begets violence. Availabitliy of easy weapons and ammo of course contributes and only a blind fool would disagree.

But again, no one cares. Keep killing each other, as long as you contain it to your streets. Cynical -- of course -- but also realistic, as this has been going on for decades and nothing changes no matter who leads, with very rare exceptions of where strong community leaders have had an effect (like the East Lake Atlanta neighborhood).

Everyone cares when the schools get shot up. Or when people drive to grocery stores or churches are target people on race or some other attribute like taht.

So I answered your question -- you answer mine -- how many mass shootings occureed in MAy...or in 2022 or in 2021-2022 in those countries I asked about.

---

Chem, this why I have changed regarding my political beliefs. I'm still very conservative and libertarian; however, I also see how my political beliefs fall short when greed kicks in.

I know Ive said this a number of times; however, its worth repeating...

My oldest daughter graduated from High Point University. One of the most beautiful campuses anyone will walk on. Just outside of the gated campus, you will find factory after factory that are shut down. This factories provided jobs for many in the community. So, greedy (my opinion) Private Equity and or Investment Bankers helped companies (probably from China) buy out these factories and moved them to the Asian market.

So, when people talk about America First, this is what they mean. I'm not looking for laws to be passed stopping these type of business transactions; rather, I have "Zero" issue with Tariffs added to country's like China. One other thing, a good number of the factory workers, in these asian markets, are working dang near in a slave environment.

in Summary, poverty can be mitigated, if we had more industry, in these towns!

BBW12OG said:

---

statefan91 said:

---

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/texas-news/teacher-closed-propped-open-door-before-uvalde-school-shooting-police/2981940/

---

Clean up on aisle 5.....

So for nearly a week they said she propped open the door. Like many teachers who slide out the back or side doors to take a smoke I'm betting she had a wedge or a rock used to come in and out. It happens at lots of schools.

To save further save face they concoct a story saying the "electronic locks" didn't engage. What school has electronic locks on side and back doors of hallways? The only "electronic locks" I have ever come across were main doors and 99% of those have been front doors beside/in front or entering the main office.

Just like most lefty run cities/towns they protect their own.

Funny how the Irish Fake Mexican supporter can't talk to the FBI but damn sure made it to be sworn in for his City Council seat isn't it? Guess they are working diligently to craft a narrative that pins this completely on the gun and not the ineptness of the lefty police chief and his chicken **** officers.

Typical...

---

I know most here have a negative reaction to NYTimes, but I listened to a podcast this morning called The Daily where they did a walk through of the timeline.

• Shooter entered at about 11:30; officers got on the scene within minutes and exchanged gunfire
• At 12:03 there were officers gathered in the hallway of the school and they had been instructed that it was a barricaded subject.
• At that same time, a little girl called 911 from inside the room to let them know people were still alive
• She called back numerous times, waiting 40+ minutes
• The shooter wasn't killed until 78 minutes after he entered the school

caryking said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

BBW12OG said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

BBW12OG said:

---

For all of those "concerned" with the shootings why don't you discuss the fact that handguns are ILLEGAL in Chicago?

Why is it never addressed or discussed. This was just one weekend. Not one of you lefties have ever started a thread about how left run cities are basically third world country warzones. Wonder why that is?

Please shed some light on why you ignore Chicago, Baltimore, D.C., St. Louis, L.A. and Detroit? Why do those shootings and killings not matter enough to discuss?

We know...........

40 people shot.

FORTY.

In a city where handguns are illegal.

It’s not about guns.

Or the law-abiding. https://t.co/Dy7eFeXd0M

— Sebastian Gorka DrG (@SebGorka) May 30, 2022

---

two thoughts ---
first, I've said on here many times taht it has been proven over and over that no one cares about inner city poverty / killings. Maybe briefly leading up to elections, but other than that, no one cares.
Your stats above aren't new or unique, they occur in certain cities all the time and have been for years, most of them are drug/gang/poverty related, and no one really sheds a tear.

second, now report your findings on numbers comparing how many mass shootings occurred in Canada, UK, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Japan, S Korea, Australia, India, and China over the month of May as compared to the US.

Look, we can all disagree on what should be done to address the problems, but one thing i think is clear. It may not be "the guns", but its also not just "the people" that are the problem. It's a mixture. And if the focus is on just one, nothing constructive will happen, an we'll continue to have these issues.

---

Now show me the stats on who/which demographic is responsible for a majority of "mass shootings" in the United States.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/table-43

https://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/ucr.asp?table_in=2

Maybe it's not a gun problem. Maybe it's a cultural problem where 17% of the population is involved with over 75% of ALL VIOLENT CRIMES.

You don't see that as an issue then there is no helping you. Also why don't you do some homework and give me the demographic breakdowns on the populations of the countries you listed and questioned me about. I did my homework. Pretend you aren't a grifting lefty and do some yourself. Put your facts out here to support your pathetic argument.

---

Of course its an issue. Poverty, missing parents, and no hope turns people to other alternatives which are often drugs and gangs. This isn't new. Drugs and gangs beget violence. Violence begets violence. Availabitliy of easy weapons and ammo of course contributes and only a blind fool would disagree.

But again, no one cares. Keep killing each other, as long as you contain it to your streets. Cynical -- of course -- but also realistic, as this has been going on for decades and nothing changes no matter who leads, with very rare exceptions of where strong community leaders have had an effect (like the East Lake Atlanta neighborhood).

Everyone cares when the schools get shot up. Or when people drive to grocery stores or churches are target people on race or some other attribute like taht.

So I answered your question -- you answer mine -- how many mass shootings occureed in MAy...or in 2022 or in 2021-2022 in those countries I asked about.

---

Chem, this why I have changed regarding my political beliefs. I'm still very conservative and libertarian; however, I also see how my political beliefs fall short when greed kicks in.

I know Ive said this a number of times; however, its worth repeating...

My oldest daughter graduated from High Point University. One of the most beautiful campuses anyone will walk on. Just outside of the gated campus, you will find factory after factory that are shut down. This factories provided jobs for many in the community. So, greedy (my opinion) Private Equity and or Investment Bankers helped companies (probably from China) buy out these factories and moved them to the Asian market.

So, when people talk about America First, this is what they mean. I'm not looking for laws to be passed stopping these type of business transactions; rather, I have "Zero" issue with Tariffs added to country's like China. One other thing, a good number of the factory workers, in these asian markets, are working dang near in a slave environment.

in Summary, poverty can be mitigated, if we had more industry, in these towns!

---

I think the factory industries that were once part of High Point, Concord, etc. were really affected by NAFTA rather than private equity and investment banking firms, wouldn't you agree that was the first real domino?

Hero border agent heard about the Uvalde shooting while getting his hair cut. He tells @IngrahamAngle about borrowing his barber's shotgun and running to the school to help save lives. https://t.co/XnmPe3EiYy

— Fox News (@FoxNews) June 1, 2022

BBW12OG said:

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statefan91 said:

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https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/texas-news/teacher-closed-propped-open-door-before-uvalde-school-shooting-police/2981940/

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Clean up on aisle 5.....

So for nearly a week they said she propped open the door. Like many teachers who slide out the back or side doors to take a smoke I'm betting she had a wedge or a rock used to come in and out. It happens at lots of schools.

To save further save face they concoct a story saying the "electronic locks" didn't engage. What school has electronic locks on side and back doors of hallways? The only "electronic locks" I have ever come across were main doors and 99% of those have been front doors beside/in front or entering the main office.

Just like most lefty run cities/towns they protect their own.

Funny how the Irish Fake Mexican supporter can't talk to the FBI but damn sure made it to be sworn in for his City Council seat isn't it? Guess they are working diligently to craft a narrative that pins this completely on the gun and not the ineptness of the lefty police chief and his chicken **** officers.

Typical...

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So as someone who actually builds elementary schools, all doors are locked with electrified hardware these days where you would need a badge or key fob to re-enter from the outside.

There's the possibility that they retrofitted this school building because it's older, and I suspect that is probably the case. Those doors aren't fool proof though, if they aren't inspected and maintained, they can fail and when they fail they fail safe, meaning the electrified portion of the lock disengages.

I have a question for all the people who want to ban ban ban. Say you get rid of AR 15's and whatever it is you want to stop the sale of. What do we do about the all of these people that are mentally weak and unstable, particularly the young, that still have hate and anger and want to hurt a bunch of people?

hokiewolf said:

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caryking said:

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Packchem91 said:

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BBW12OG said:

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Packchem91 said:

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BBW12OG said:

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For all of those "concerned" with the shootings why don't you discuss the fact that handguns are ILLEGAL in Chicago?

Why is it never addressed or discussed. This was just one weekend. Not one of you lefties have ever started a thread about how left run cities are basically third world country warzones. Wonder why that is?

Please shed some light on why you ignore Chicago, Baltimore, D.C., St. Louis, L.A. and Detroit? Why do those shootings and killings not matter enough to discuss?

We know...........

40 people shot.

FORTY.

In a city where handguns are illegal.

It’s not about guns.

Or the law-abiding. https://t.co/Dy7eFeXd0M

— Sebastian Gorka DrG (@SebGorka) May 30, 2022

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two thoughts ---
first, I've said on here many times taht it has been proven over and over that no one cares about inner city poverty / killings. Maybe briefly leading up to elections, but other than that, no one cares.
Your stats above aren't new or unique, they occur in certain cities all the time and have been for years, most of them are drug/gang/poverty related, and no one really sheds a tear.

second, now report your findings on numbers comparing how many mass shootings occurred in Canada, UK, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Japan, S Korea, Australia, India, and China over the month of May as compared to the US.

Look, we can all disagree on what should be done to address the problems, but one thing i think is clear. It may not be "the guns", but its also not just "the people" that are the problem. It's a mixture. And if the focus is on just one, nothing constructive will happen, an we'll continue to have these issues.

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Now show me the stats on who/which demographic is responsible for a majority of "mass shootings" in the United States.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/table-43

https://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/ucr.asp?table_in=2

Maybe it's not a gun problem. Maybe it's a cultural problem where 17% of the population is involved with over 75% of ALL VIOLENT CRIMES.

You don't see that as an issue then there is no helping you. Also why don't you do some homework and give me the demographic breakdowns on the populations of the countries you listed and questioned me about. I did my homework. Pretend you aren't a grifting lefty and do some yourself. Put your facts out here to support your pathetic argument.

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Of course its an issue. Poverty, missing parents, and no hope turns people to other alternatives which are often drugs and gangs. This isn't new. Drugs and gangs beget violence. Violence begets violence. Availabitliy of easy weapons and ammo of course contributes and only a blind fool would disagree.

But again, no one cares. Keep killing each other, as long as you contain it to your streets. Cynical -- of course -- but also realistic, as this has been going on for decades and nothing changes no matter who leads, with very rare exceptions of where strong community leaders have had an effect (like the East Lake Atlanta neighborhood).

Everyone cares when the schools get shot up. Or when people drive to grocery stores or churches are target people on race or some other attribute like taht.

So I answered your question -- you answer mine -- how many mass shootings occureed in MAy...or in 2022 or in 2021-2022 in those countries I asked about.

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Chem, this why I have changed regarding my political beliefs. I'm still very conservative and libertarian; however, I also see how my political beliefs fall short when greed kicks in.

I know Ive said this a number of times; however, its worth repeating...

My oldest daughter graduated from High Point University. One of the most beautiful campuses anyone will walk on. Just outside of the gated campus, you will find factory after factory that are shut down. This factories provided jobs for many in the community. So, greedy (my opinion) Private Equity and or Investment Bankers helped companies (probably from China) buy out these factories and moved them to the Asian market.

So, when people talk about America First, this is what they mean. I'm not looking for laws to be passed stopping these type of business transactions; rather, I have "Zero" issue with Tariffs added to country's like China. One other thing, a good number of the factory workers, in these asian markets, are working dang near in a slave environment.

in Summary, poverty can be mitigated, if we had more industry, in these towns!

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I think the factory industries that were once part of High Point, Concord, etc. were really affected by NAFTA rather than private equity and investment banking firms, wouldn't you agree that was the first real domino?

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Both! NAFTA is NOT China! Where is the furniture being made today? China. Nonetheless, I agree NAFTA didn't help.

The problem is that good ideas (I considered NAFTA a good idea) have negative consequesnce.

Steve Videtich said:

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I have a question for all the people who want to ban ban ban. Say you get rid of AR 15's and whatever it is you want to stop the sale of. What do we do about the all of these people that are mentally weak and unstable, particularly the young, that still have hate and anger and want to hurt a bunch of people?

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I'm not "ban ban ban" but I'm confused by your question. Are you saying that it's better that those people do have access to those weapons vs. the potential for them not to?

statefan91 said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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I have a question for all the people who want to ban ban ban. Say you get rid of AR 15's and whatever it is you want to stop the sale of. What do we do about the all of these people that are mentally weak and unstable, particularly the young, that still have hate and anger and want to hurt a bunch of people?

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I'm not "ban ban ban" but I'm confused by your question. Are you saying that it's better that those people do have access to those weapons vs. the potential for them not to?

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It appears to me, Steve's question is:

What do we do about the all of these people that are mentally weak and unstable, particularly the young, that still have hate and anger and want to hurt a bunch of people?

statefan91 said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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I have a question for all the people who want to ban ban ban. Say you get rid of AR 15's and whatever it is you want to stop the sale of. What do we do about the all of these people that are mentally weak and unstable, particularly the young, that still have hate and anger and want to hurt a bunch of people?

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I'm not "ban ban ban" but I'm confused by your question. Are you saying that it's better that those people do have access to those weapons vs. the potential for them not to?

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My question is pretty clear and so is my stance if you've been following along, which I know you have.

Steve Videtich said:

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statefan91 said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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I have a question for all the people who want to ban ban ban. Say you get rid of AR 15's and whatever it is you want to stop the sale of. What do we do about the all of these people that are mentally weak and unstable, particularly the young, that still have hate and anger and want to hurt a bunch of people?

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I'm not "ban ban ban" but I'm confused by your question. Are you saying that it's better that those people do have access to those weapons vs. the potential for them not to?

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My question is pretty clear and so is my stance if you've been following along, which I know you have.

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Sure it's clear.

"What do we do about the all of these people that are mentally weak and unstable, particularly the young, that still have hate and anger and want to hurt a bunch of people?"

Find them mental health help? Isn't that what everyone that says it's a mental health issue advocating for? Now the follow-through of that is interesting since so many budgets seem to reduce spending on mental health. You've advocated that you don't want government involved in healthcare, but if these people can't afford mental healthcare, and the only providers are for-profit companies, not sure how that gets solved either.

Steve Videtich said:

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I have a question for all the people who want to ban ban ban. Say you get rid of AR 15's and whatever it is you want to stop the sale of. What do we do about the all of these people that are mentally weak and unstable, particularly the young, that still have hate and anger and want to hurt a bunch of people?

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LOL, you keep acting like people are arguing that mental health is not an issue. Its been clearly stated, multiple times, that it is.

Personally, any solution that doesn't factor in both access to particular weapons / ammo AND mental health, is going to be an overall failure.

BTW, this is a fascinating report by the FBI on the "active shooter" killins in 2021.
Active Shooter Incidents in the United States in 2021 FBI

It gets away from all the gang violence some here are wanting to focus on, and instead focuses on the defined types of shootings like we just saw in Buffalo and Uvalde.

While there are teens, there are a whole bunch in the 25-54 year old range. So clearly it goes beyond video games, school bullying, etc that needs to be addressed.
Looks like a lot were business related -- someone unhappy at work, type stuff.