Probably had a flight to Cancun to catch.

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Now it's the scary 30 round mag.

---

I just would like to understand the need for a 30 round magazine.

---

The simplest answer is because the other guy has a 30 round magazine. What would be an appropriate sized magazine for you?

---

10. I personally have a 7+1 for my rifle and that's enough ammo for a couple hunting trips

---

Cool. Enjoy. I have 3-4 30 round magazines for my AR, multiple 15 round magazines for my pistols. Plenty of ammo for hunting trips.

---

why do you need that much ammo for hunting? I have done long Caribou trips with my brother in law and we don't have anything g close to that

---

I don't "need" it for hunting. I have plenty of ammo for hunting trips. I only use my AR in a hunting capacity for depredation hunting every year. Fully loaded. Never go through whole mag, but it's available if needed.

---

I'm not trying to badger you or trap you in an argument btw, but other than a theoretical other guy has a 30 round capacity magazine, what would be the condition in which you would need a 30 round magazine? If they went away, what function are you losing with your rifle?

---

You keep asking it over and over though. Like examples above, it's simply because somebody made them.

---

so basically if they went away no one would miss them and you'd still have a functional rifle.

Just because they are available isn't justification for having them in the market, especially if the only purpose that I've seen so far for a 30 round magazine is to do harm to other people.

---

They're used for hunting. I even told you I use them.

---

i guess you hunt differently than I do. At the most, I've used two bullets to take down an animal. Anymore than that and I'm wasting meat.

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Now it's the scary 30 round mag.

---

I just would like to understand the need for a 30 round magazine.

---

The simplest answer is because the other guy has a 30 round magazine. What would be an appropriate sized magazine for you?

---

10. I personally have a 7+1 for my rifle and that's enough ammo for a couple hunting trips

---

Cool. Enjoy. I have 3-4 30 round magazines for my AR, multiple 15 round magazines for my pistols. Plenty of ammo for hunting trips.

---

why do you need that much ammo for hunting? I have done long Caribou trips with my brother in law and we don't have anything g close to that

---

I don't "need" it for hunting. I have plenty of ammo for hunting trips. I only use my AR in a hunting capacity for depredation hunting every year. Fully loaded. Never go through whole mag, but it's available if needed.

---

I'm not trying to badger you or trap you in an argument btw, but other than a theoretical other guy has a 30 round capacity magazine, what would be the condition in which you would need a 30 round magazine? If they went away, what function are you losing with your rifle?

---

You keep asking it over and over though. Like examples above, it's simply because somebody made them.

---

so basically if they went away no one would miss them and you'd still have a functional rifle.

Just because they are available isn't justification for having them in the market, especially if the only purpose that I've seen so far for a 30 round magazine is to do harm to other people.

---

They're used for hunting. I even told you I use them.

---

i guess you hunt differently than I do. At the most, I've used two bullets to take down an animal. Anymore than that and I'm wasting meat.

---

You're obviously not familiar with depredation hunting.

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Now it's the scary 30 round mag.

---

I just would like to understand the need for a 30 round magazine.

---

The simplest answer is because the other guy has a 30 round magazine. What would be an appropriate sized magazine for you?

---

10. I personally have a 7+1 for my rifle and that's enough ammo for a couple hunting trips

---

Cool. Enjoy. I have 3-4 30 round magazines for my AR, multiple 15 round magazines for my pistols. Plenty of ammo for hunting trips.

---

why do you need that much ammo for hunting? I have done long Caribou trips with my brother in law and we don't have anything g close to that

---

I don't "need" it for hunting. I have plenty of ammo for hunting trips. I only use my AR in a hunting capacity for depredation hunting every year. Fully loaded. Never go through whole mag, but it's available if needed.

---

I'm not trying to badger you or trap you in an argument btw, but other than a theoretical other guy has a 30 round capacity magazine, what would be the condition in which you would need a 30 round magazine? If they went away, what function are you losing with your rifle?

---

You keep asking it over and over though. Like examples above, it's simply because somebody made them.

---

so basically if they went away no one would miss them and you'd still have a functional rifle.

Just because they are available isn't justification for having them in the market, especially if the only purpose that I've seen so far for a 30 round magazine is to do harm to other people.

---

They're used for hunting. I even told you I use them.

---

i guess you hunt differently than I do. At the most, I've used two bullets to take down an animal. Anymore than that and I'm wasting meat.

---

You're obviously not familiar with depredation hunting.

---

I am familiar.

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Now it's the scary 30 round mag.

---

I just would like to understand the need for a 30 round magazine.

---

The simplest answer is because the other guy has a 30 round magazine. What would be an appropriate sized magazine for you?

---

10. I personally have a 7+1 for my rifle and that's enough ammo for a couple hunting trips

---

Cool. Enjoy. I have 3-4 30 round magazines for my AR, multiple 15 round magazines for my pistols. Plenty of ammo for hunting trips.

---

why do you need that much ammo for hunting? I have done long Caribou trips with my brother in law and we don't have anything g close to that

---

I don't "need" it for hunting. I have plenty of ammo for hunting trips. I only use my AR in a hunting capacity for depredation hunting every year. Fully loaded. Never go through whole mag, but it's available if needed.

---

I'm not trying to badger you or trap you in an argument btw, but other than a theoretical other guy has a 30 round capacity magazine, what would be the condition in which you would need a 30 round magazine? If they went away, what function are you losing with your rifle?

---

You keep asking it over and over though. Like examples above, it's simply because somebody made them.

---

so basically if they went away no one would miss them and you'd still have a functional rifle.

Just because they are available isn't justification for having them in the market, especially if the only purpose that I've seen so far for a 30 round magazine is to do harm to other people.

---

They're used for hunting. I even told you I use them.

---

i guess you hunt differently than I do. At the most, I've used two bullets to take down an animal. Anymore than that and I'm wasting meat.

---

You're obviously not familiar with depredation hunting.

---

I am familiar.

---

How much meat have you taken from depredation hunting?

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Now it's the scary 30 round mag.

---

I just would like to understand the need for a 30 round magazine.

---

The simplest answer is because the other guy has a 30 round magazine. What would be an appropriate sized magazine for you?

---

10. I personally have a 7+1 for my rifle and that's enough ammo for a couple hunting trips

---

Cool. Enjoy. I have 3-4 30 round magazines for my AR, multiple 15 round magazines for my pistols. Plenty of ammo for hunting trips.

---

why do you need that much ammo for hunting? I have done long Caribou trips with my brother in law and we don't have anything g close to that

---

I don't "need" it for hunting. I have plenty of ammo for hunting trips. I only use my AR in a hunting capacity for depredation hunting every year. Fully loaded. Never go through whole mag, but it's available if needed.

---

I'm not trying to badger you or trap you in an argument btw, but other than a theoretical other guy has a 30 round capacity magazine, what would be the condition in which you would need a 30 round magazine? If they went away, what function are you losing with your rifle?

---

You keep asking it over and over though. Like examples above, it's simply because somebody made them.

---

so basically if they went away no one would miss them and you'd still have a functional rifle.

Just because they are available isn't justification for having them in the market, especially if the only purpose that I've seen so far for a 30 round magazine is to do harm to other people.

---

They're used for hunting. I even told you I use them.

---

i guess you hunt differently than I do. At the most, I've used two bullets to take down an animal. Anymore than that and I'm wasting meat.

---

You're obviously not familiar with depredation hunting.

---

I am familiar.

---

How much meat have you taken from depredation hunting?

---

I have not personally been on a depredation hunt. But I fail to see how carrying a 30 round magazine vs 3 10 round magazines limits your ability to eliminate nuisance animals

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Now it's the scary 30 round mag.

---

I just would like to understand the need for a 30 round magazine.

---

The simplest answer is because the other guy has a 30 round magazine. What would be an appropriate sized magazine for you?

---

10. I personally have a 7+1 for my rifle and that's enough ammo for a couple hunting trips

---

Cool. Enjoy. I have 3-4 30 round magazines for my AR, multiple 15 round magazines for my pistols. Plenty of ammo for hunting trips.

---

why do you need that much ammo for hunting? I have done long Caribou trips with my brother in law and we don't have anything g close to that

---

I don't "need" it for hunting. I have plenty of ammo for hunting trips. I only use my AR in a hunting capacity for depredation hunting every year. Fully loaded. Never go through whole mag, but it's available if needed.

---

I'm not trying to badger you or trap you in an argument btw, but other than a theoretical other guy has a 30 round capacity magazine, what would be the condition in which you would need a 30 round magazine? If they went away, what function are you losing with your rifle?

---

You keep asking it over and over though. Like examples above, it's simply because somebody made them.

---

so basically if they went away no one would miss them and you'd still have a functional rifle.

Just because they are available isn't justification for having them in the market, especially if the only purpose that I've seen so far for a 30 round magazine is to do harm to other people.

---

They're used for hunting. I even told you I use them.

---

i guess you hunt differently than I do. At the most, I've used two bullets to take down an animal. Anymore than that and I'm wasting meat.

---

You're obviously not familiar with depredation hunting.

---

I am familiar.

---

How much meat have you taken from depredation hunting?

---

I have not personally been on a depredation hunt. But I fail to see how carrying a 30 round magazine vs 3 10 round magazines limits your ability to eliminate nuisance animals

---

It doesn't limit your ability. You said they had no purpose other than to harm people. They are used and they have a purpose. I know people that use them prairie dog hunting as well.

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Now it's the scary 30 round mag.

---

I just would like to understand the need for a 30 round magazine.

---

The simplest answer is because the other guy has a 30 round magazine. What would be an appropriate sized magazine for you?

---

10. I personally have a 7+1 for my rifle and that's enough ammo for a couple hunting trips

---

Cool. Enjoy. I have 3-4 30 round magazines for my AR, multiple 15 round magazines for my pistols. Plenty of ammo for hunting trips.

---

why do you need that much ammo for hunting? I have done long Caribou trips with my brother in law and we don't have anything g close to that

---

I don't "need" it for hunting. I have plenty of ammo for hunting trips. I only use my AR in a hunting capacity for depredation hunting every year. Fully loaded. Never go through whole mag, but it's available if needed.

---

I'm not trying to badger you or trap you in an argument btw, but other than a theoretical other guy has a 30 round capacity magazine, what would be the condition in which you would need a 30 round magazine? If they went away, what function are you losing with your rifle?

---

You keep asking it over and over though. Like examples above, it's simply because somebody made them.

---

so basically if they went away no one would miss them and you'd still have a functional rifle.

Just because they are available isn't justification for having them in the market, especially if the only purpose that I've seen so far for a 30 round magazine is to do harm to other people.

---

They're used for hunting. I even told you I use them.

---

i guess you hunt differently than I do. At the most, I've used two bullets to take down an animal. Anymore than that and I'm wasting meat.

---

You're obviously not familiar with depredation hunting.

---

I am familiar.

---

How much meat have you taken from depredation hunting?

---

I have not personally been on a depredation hunt. But I fail to see how carrying a 30 round magazine vs 3 10 round magazines limits your ability to eliminate nuisance animals

---

It doesn't limit your ability. You said they had no purpose other than to harm people. They are used and they have a purpose. I know people that use them prairie dog hunting as well.

---

ok fine. One use. So are you willing to trade that one use for the potential of saving a life of a kid in a school because the shooter has to stop and reload?

Everpack said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Now it's the scary 30 round mag.

---

I ask this in all seriousness.....at what point do you need a 30 round mag?

---

I ask this in all seriousness…..at what point do you need to drive over 55 mph?

At what point do you need to be able to order a sugary soft drink?

At what point do you need to be able to buy a fifth of liqueur?

At what point do you need to buy cigarettes?

At what point do you need anything beyond basic shelter, water and food you grow?

There's the problem with slippery slopes based on need, they get really ****ing slippery.

---

Thank you for your perspective
I don't drink alcohol and don't smoke, so they can get rid of that crap too....but don't you dare take away my cherry cokes

I'm not familiar with any of those things being used in mass murders though?

caryking said:

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Packchem91 said:

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hokiewolf said:

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caryking said:

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hokiewolf said:

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packgrad said:

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dogplasma said:

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Outlawing assault rifles, semiautomatics, and large magazines seems like a no brainer.

---

Will never happen, nor should it. I would certainly never turn mine in. Perhaps you just don't know what you're talking about as it pertains to guns, but this 100% is they're coming for your guns. Would do zero to curb these things from happening. Would be one of those feel good to the left gestures that just does nothing at best or makes things worse.

---

I agree with you here. There are too many guns in circulation now both legally and illegally for any sort of gun ban to work. Where I would compromise would be the discontinuation of sale of large magazines. That I'd be willing to listen to. That would potentially have an impact to maybe save a life.

---

I would be at the Gun Store as soon as this legislation started gaining momentum.

Buy, Buy, Buy!!!

I have three 30 round magazines for my AR15. They don't last forever; so, I would want more, just for reserve. Not that I'm carrying a bunch of magazines with me. In fact, when I do go to the range, I never take multiple magazines for my rifle. When it come to my pistols, I do keep multiple magazines with me. I always have a magazine loaded with Critical Defense ammo for my Hellcat (everyday carry and soon to be my conceal carry). Other magazines arerange shooting, not loaded and stored.

---

what's the point of having a 30 round magazine? This isn't 'Nam.

---

Remember, this guy has been talking a new civil war. Lord have mercy

---

God chimes in again!

---

ha, thanks for the confidence, but he is all knowing, and I am not. But I can read your posts and you've said plenty to tell who you are. Pretty easy stuff, really.

Quote:

---

Numbers aren't everything, but they should inform our sense of proportion in nationwide policy-making. Some perspective on the size of the problem and the direction of the trend is always important. The Associated Press counts 169 deaths in 23 years. That's a lot in absolute terms, especially when we're discussing innocent schoolchildren. But it is also seven deaths per year, compared with 43 per year by lightning, 300 per year by toasters, 800 per year by bedsheets, and of course, over 800,000 per year by abortion. We can also compare the number with problems such as Central and South American gangs that liberals and progressives commonly dismiss as insignificant threats. Moreover, when last I looked at this in 2018, there were reasons to doubt that schools were actually less safe or that school shootings were actually more common. But if they have become more common, they have done so long after guns were readily available and prevalent in American society which suggests, once again, that the problem is not in our guns, but in ourselves.

---

It may or may not help to consider some numbers when thinking about our national tragedies. On the same day as the Uvalde shooting when 19 innocent souls were taken, 2,192 innocent souls were taken at abortion clinics. Of those, per the statistics kept by the state of Florida, we know 70% of those who lost their life were taken simply for the convenience of their mother. That number is repeated EVERY SINGLE DAY OF THE YEAR. As the author of the article I quoted stated, we have a problem in American society and the problem is us.

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Now it's the scary 30 round mag.

---

I just would like to understand the need for a 30 round magazine.

---

The simplest answer is because the other guy has a 30 round magazine. What would be an appropriate sized magazine for you?

---

10. I personally have a 7+1 for my rifle and that's enough ammo for a couple hunting trips

---

Cool. Enjoy. I have 3-4 30 round magazines for my AR, multiple 15 round magazines for my pistols. Plenty of ammo for hunting trips.

---

why do you need that much ammo for hunting? I have done long Caribou trips with my brother in law and we don't have anything g close to that

---

I don't "need" it for hunting. I have plenty of ammo for hunting trips. I only use my AR in a hunting capacity for depredation hunting every year. Fully loaded. Never go through whole mag, but it's available if needed.

---

I'm not trying to badger you or trap you in an argument btw, but other than a theoretical other guy has a 30 round capacity magazine, what would be the condition in which you would need a 30 round magazine? If they went away, what function are you losing with your rifle?

---

You keep asking it over and over though. Like examples above, it's simply because somebody made them.

---

so basically if they went away no one would miss them and you'd still have a functional rifle.

Just because they are available isn't justification for having them in the market, especially if the only purpose that I've seen so far for a 30 round magazine is to do harm to other people.

---

They're used for hunting. I even told you I use them.

---

i guess you hunt differently than I do. At the most, I've used two bullets to take down an animal. Anymore than that and I'm wasting meat.

---

You're obviously not familiar with depredation hunting.

---

I am familiar.

---

How much meat have you taken from depredation hunting?

---

I have not personally been on a depredation hunt. But I fail to see how carrying a 30 round magazine vs 3 10 round magazines limits your ability to eliminate nuisance animals

---

It doesn't limit your ability. You said they had no purpose other than to harm people. They are used and they have a purpose. I know people that use them prairie dog hunting as well.

---

ok fine. One use. So are you willing to trade that one use for the potential of saving a life of a kid in a school because the shooter has to stop and reload?

---

Haha. If it would, absolutely. But it's just virtue signaling. Let's move on. You've gone from being against bans to being for bans.

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Now it's the scary 30 round mag.

---

I just would like to understand the need for a 30 round magazine.

---

The simplest answer is because the other guy has a 30 round magazine. What would be an appropriate sized magazine for you?

---

10. I personally have a 7+1 for my rifle and that's enough ammo for a couple hunting trips

---

Cool. Enjoy. I have 3-4 30 round magazines for my AR, multiple 15 round magazines for my pistols. Plenty of ammo for hunting trips.

---

why do you need that much ammo for hunting? I have done long Caribou trips with my brother in law and we don't have anything g close to that

---

I don't "need" it for hunting. I have plenty of ammo for hunting trips. I only use my AR in a hunting capacity for depredation hunting every year. Fully loaded. Never go through whole mag, but it's available if needed.

---

I'm not trying to badger you or trap you in an argument btw, but other than a theoretical other guy has a 30 round capacity magazine, what would be the condition in which you would need a 30 round magazine? If they went away, what function are you losing with your rifle?

---

You keep asking it over and over though. Like examples above, it's simply because somebody made them.

---

so basically if they went away no one would miss them and you'd still have a functional rifle.

Just because they are available isn't justification for having them in the market, especially if the only purpose that I've seen so far for a 30 round magazine is to do harm to other people.

---

They're used for hunting. I even told you I use them.

---

i guess you hunt differently than I do. At the most, I've used two bullets to take down an animal. Anymore than that and I'm wasting meat.

---

You're obviously not familiar with depredation hunting.

---

I am familiar.

---

How much meat have you taken from depredation hunting?

---

I have not personally been on a depredation hunt. But I fail to see how carrying a 30 round magazine vs 3 10 round magazines limits your ability to eliminate nuisance animals

---

It doesn't limit your ability. You said they had no purpose other than to harm people. They are used and they have a purpose. I know people that use them prairie dog hunting as well.

---

ok fine. One use. So are you willing to trade that one use for the potential of saving a life of a kid in a school because the shooter has to stop and reload?

---

Haha. If it would, absolutely. But it's just virtue signaling. Let's move on. You've gone from being against bans to being for bans.

---

there's a difference between a gun ban and a magazine ban. One violates that 2nd amendment and the other one doesn't.

PackFansXL said:

---

Quote:

---

Numbers aren't everything, but they should inform our sense of proportion in nationwide policy-making. Some perspective on the size of the problem and the direction of the trend is always important. The Associated Press counts 169 deaths in 23 years. That's a lot in absolute terms, especially when we're discussing innocent schoolchildren. But it is also seven deaths per year, compared with 43 per year by lightning, 300 per year by toasters, 800 per year by bedsheets, and of course, over 800,000 per year by abortion. We can also compare the number with problems such as Central and South American gangs that liberals and progressives commonly dismiss as insignificant threats. Moreover, when last I looked at this in 2018, there were reasons to doubt that schools were actually less safe or that school shootings were actually more common. But if they have become more common, they have done so long after guns were readily available and prevalent in American society which suggests, once again, that the problem is not in our guns, but in ourselves.

---

It may or may not help to consider some numbers when thinking about our national tragedies. On the same day as the Uvalde shooting when 19 innocent souls were taken, 2,192 innocent souls were taken at abortion clinics. Of those, per the statistics kept by the state of Florida, we know 70% of those who lost their life were taken simply for the convenience of their mother. That number is repeated EVERY SINGLE DAY OF THE YEAR. As the author of the article I quoted stated, we have a problem in American society and the problem is us.

---

You're correct, that's not at all helpful.

Your judgment about when life and sentience begins has nothing at all to do with the mass murder of children and teachers that inarguably have awareness and feel pain and fear, have ambitions and hopes and dreams, and experience joy and love.

PackFansXL said:

---

Quote:

---

Numbers aren't everything, but they should inform our sense of proportion in nationwide policy-making. Some perspective on the size of the problem and the direction of the trend is always important. The Associated Press counts 169 deaths in 23 years. That's a lot in absolute terms, especially when we're discussing innocent schoolchildren. But it is also seven deaths per year, compared with 43 per year by lightning, 300 per year by toasters, 800 per year by bedsheets, and of course, over 800,000 per year by abortion. We can also compare the number with problems such as Central and South American gangs that liberals and progressives commonly dismiss as insignificant threats. Moreover, when last I looked at this in 2018, there were reasons to doubt that schools were actually less safe or that school shootings were actually more common. But if they have become more common, they have done so long after guns were readily available and prevalent in American society which suggests, once again, that the problem is not in our guns, but in ourselves.

---

It may or may not help to consider some numbers when thinking about our national tragedies. On the same day as the Uvalde shooting when 19 innocent souls were taken, 2,192 innocent souls were taken at abortion clinics. Of those, per the statistics kept by the state of Florida, we know 70% of those who lost their life were taken simply for the convenience of their mother. That number is repeated EVERY SINGLE DAY OF THE YEAR. As the author of the article I quoted stated, we have a problem in American society and the problem is us.

---

i mean, apples and oranges though, right?
I can be against abortion, but someone having an abortion doesn't put you or me at risk.
Someone having a gun with a 30-round clip absolutely can put other people at risk.

THIS is the exactly approach above that our leaders use to ultimately justify why we never make any progress on meaningful reform. Ohhh, looky over there.

We surely have some fundamental issues in this country, and we talk a lot, but at the end of the day, the people who make guns don't care if crazy people buy them or not....as long as somoene does.

hokiewolf said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Now it's the scary 30 round mag.

---

I just would like to understand the need for a 30 round magazine.

---

The simplest answer is because the other guy has a 30 round magazine. What would be an appropriate sized magazine for you?

---

10. I personally have a 7+1 for my rifle and that's enough ammo for a couple hunting trips

---

Cool. Enjoy. I have 3-4 30 round magazines for my AR, multiple 15 round magazines for my pistols. Plenty of ammo for hunting trips.

---

why do you need that much ammo for hunting? I have done long Caribou trips with my brother in law and we don't have anything g close to that

---

I don't "need" it for hunting. I have plenty of ammo for hunting trips. I only use my AR in a hunting capacity for depredation hunting every year. Fully loaded. Never go through whole mag, but it's available if needed.

---

I'm not trying to badger you or trap you in an argument btw, but other than a theoretical other guy has a 30 round capacity magazine, what would be the condition in which you would need a 30 round magazine? If they went away, what function are you losing with your rifle?

---

You keep asking it over and over though. Like examples above, it's simply because somebody made them.

---

so basically if they went away no one would miss them and you'd still have a functional rifle.

Just because they are available isn't justification for having them in the market, especially if the only purpose that I've seen so far for a 30 round magazine is to do harm to other people.

---

So why do we make vehicles that go 0 to 60 in less than 3 seconds? Why do they sell grain alcohol when a few beers can give you a buzz. Why are cigarettes and all forms of tobacco still legal when they cause cancer? When someone gets killed by a drunk driver, do they call for cars with less HP?

The point is that this country was born through freedoms to make the choices we make. You also have the freedom to pay for stupid decision you make. And before any screamers come at me, no the victims didn't have the choice on how their lives ended. That's why things have to change at the root cause level.

We have to enforce the laws that are already on the books in this country. How many incidences occur from repeat offenders? How many DUI's have multiple offenses? People have to be held accountable for stupid choices. And when e have people troubled mentally, they need help.

We can't ignore these issues in people. But, keep the focus on the tool they use instead of the tool they've become as human beings and nothing will change.

Packchem91 said:

---

PackFansXL said:

---

Quote:

---

Numbers aren't everything, but they should inform our sense of proportion in nationwide policy-making. Some perspective on the size of the problem and the direction of the trend is always important. The Associated Press counts 169 deaths in 23 years. That's a lot in absolute terms, especially when we're discussing innocent schoolchildren. But it is also seven deaths per year, compared with 43 per year by lightning, 300 per year by toasters, 800 per year by bedsheets, and of course, over 800,000 per year by abortion. We can also compare the number with problems such as Central and South American gangs that liberals and progressives commonly dismiss as insignificant threats. Moreover, when last I looked at this in 2018, there were reasons to doubt that schools were actually less safe or that school shootings were actually more common. But if they have become more common, they have done so long after guns were readily available and prevalent in American society which suggests, once again, that the problem is not in our guns, but in ourselves.

---

It may or may not help to consider some numbers when thinking about our national tragedies. On the same day as the Uvalde shooting when 19 innocent souls were taken, 2,192 innocent souls were taken at abortion clinics. Of those, per the statistics kept by the state of Florida, we know 70% of those who lost their life were taken simply for the convenience of their mother. That number is repeated EVERY SINGLE DAY OF THE YEAR. As the author of the article I quoted stated, we have a problem in American society and the problem is us.

---

i mean, apples and oranges though, right?
I can be against abortion, but someone having an abortion doesn't put you or me at risk.
Someone having a gun with a 30-round clip absolutely can put other people at risk.

THIS is the exactly approach above that our leaders use to ultimately justify why we never make any progress on meaningful reform. Ohhh, looky over there.

We surely have some fundamental issues in this country, and we talk a lot, but at the end of the day, the people who make guns don't care if crazy people buy them or not....as long as somoene does.

---

I could not care less if we outlaw 30 round clips. I don't believe that will accomplish anything.

Murdering children is murdering children whether they are inside our outside the womb. We have a problem in this country because we choose to believe the rationalizations of the Democratic party. A party that cares not one iota for the children or the women or the people of color they proclaim to support. They care only about power. The fact that abortion is the most prominent plank in their national platform is disgusting!

Ok fine. Here's my proposal:

All firearms are legal to purchase, but they can't come standard with round capacities higher than 9+1.

Any magazine capacity over 9 requires a permit, training, and insurance.

No bans.

Steve Videtich said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Now it's the scary 30 round mag.

---

I just would like to understand the need for a 30 round magazine.

---

The simplest answer is because the other guy has a 30 round magazine. What would be an appropriate sized magazine for you?

---

10. I personally have a 7+1 for my rifle and that's enough ammo for a couple hunting trips

---

Cool. Enjoy. I have 3-4 30 round magazines for my AR, multiple 15 round magazines for my pistols. Plenty of ammo for hunting trips.

---

why do you need that much ammo for hunting? I have done long Caribou trips with my brother in law and we don't have anything g close to that

---

I don't "need" it for hunting. I have plenty of ammo for hunting trips. I only use my AR in a hunting capacity for depredation hunting every year. Fully loaded. Never go through whole mag, but it's available if needed.

---

I'm not trying to badger you or trap you in an argument btw, but other than a theoretical other guy has a 30 round capacity magazine, what would be the condition in which you would need a 30 round magazine? If they went away, what function are you losing with your rifle?

---

You keep asking it over and over though. Like examples above, it's simply because somebody made them.

---

so basically if they went away no one would miss them and you'd still have a functional rifle.

Just because they are available isn't justification for having them in the market, especially if the only purpose that I've seen so far for a 30 round magazine is to do harm to other people.

---

So why do we make vehicles that go 0 to 60 in less than 3 seconds? Why do they sell grain alcohol when a few beers can give you a buzz. Why are cigarettes and all forms of tobacco still legal when they cause cancer? When someone gets killed by a drunk driver, do they call for cars with less HP?

The point is that this country was born through freedoms to make the choices we make. You also have the freedom to pay for stupid decision you make. And before any screamers come at me, no the victims didn't have the choice on how their lives ended. That's why things have to change at the root cause level.

We have to enforce the laws that are already on the books in this country. How many incidences occur from repeat offenders? How many DUI's have multiple offenses? People have to be held accountable for stupid choices. And when e have people troubled mentally, they need help.

We can't ignore these issues in people. But, keep the focus on the tool they use instead of the tool they've become as human beings and nothing will change.

---

from accounts, the laws were enforced, and he was still able to get these tools of killing.
seems there is a point where you think, maybe the laws are no longer enough Basically....its the fundamental this country was built on -- you elect leaders to make adjustments as things go.

I agree with all who say address the people making these terrible actions...but you can't just ignore the other part. But our national dialogue will attempt to do just that.

PackFansXL said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

PackFansXL said:

---

Quote:

---

Numbers aren't everything, but they should inform our sense of proportion in nationwide policy-making. Some perspective on the size of the problem and the direction of the trend is always important. The Associated Press counts 169 deaths in 23 years. That's a lot in absolute terms, especially when we're discussing innocent schoolchildren. But it is also seven deaths per year, compared with 43 per year by lightning, 300 per year by toasters, 800 per year by bedsheets, and of course, over 800,000 per year by abortion. We can also compare the number with problems such as Central and South American gangs that liberals and progressives commonly dismiss as insignificant threats. Moreover, when last I looked at this in 2018, there were reasons to doubt that schools were actually less safe or that school shootings were actually more common. But if they have become more common, they have done so long after guns were readily available and prevalent in American society which suggests, once again, that the problem is not in our guns, but in ourselves.

---

It may or may not help to consider some numbers when thinking about our national tragedies. On the same day as the Uvalde shooting when 19 innocent souls were taken, 2,192 innocent souls were taken at abortion clinics. Of those, per the statistics kept by the state of Florida, we know 70% of those who lost their life were taken simply for the convenience of their mother. That number is repeated EVERY SINGLE DAY OF THE YEAR. As the author of the article I quoted stated, we have a problem in American society and the problem is us.

---

i mean, apples and oranges though, right?
I can be against abortion, but someone having an abortion doesn't put you or me at risk.
Someone having a gun with a 30-round clip absolutely can put other people at risk.

THIS is the exactly approach above that our leaders use to ultimately justify why we never make any progress on meaningful reform. Ohhh, looky over there. i
We surely have some fundamental issues in this country, and we talk a lot, but at the end of the day, the people who make guns don't care if crazy people buy them or not....as long as somoene does.

---

I could not care less if we outlaw 30 round clips. I don't believe that will accomplish anything.

Murdering children is murdering children whether they are inside our outside the womb. We have a problem in this country because we choose to believe the rationalizations of the Democratic party. A party that cares not one iota for the children or the women or the people of color they proclaim to support. They care only about power. The fact that abortion is the most prominent plank in their national platform is disgusting!

---

And I don't disagree with that premise. The fact they celebrate is even more disgusting (though i do believe there are times when it is justified, and frankly, can not begin to understand men who think there are never reasons to have one).

Still has not one iota to do with gun law debates.

The issue really has nothing to do with gun laws either. The issue is our propensity to make terrible choices in this country while trying to justify those choices with idiotic rationalizations made for political power.

PackFansXL said:

---

The issue really has nothing to do with gun laws either. The issue is our propensity to make terrible choices in this country while trying to justify those choices with idiotic rationalizations made for political power.

---

now that something I could get behind. First step, end political primaries and got to rank choice voting.

Packchem91 said:

---

Everpack said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Now it's the scary 30 round mag.

---

I ask this in all seriousness.....at what point do you need a 30 round mag?

---

I ask this in all seriousness…..at what point do you need to drive over 55 mph?

At what point do you need to be able to order a sugary soft drink?

At what point do you need to be able to buy a fifth of liqueur?

At what point do you need to buy cigarettes?

At what point do you need anything beyond basic shelter, water and food you grow?

There's the problem with slippery slopes based on need, they get really ****ing slippery.

---

Thank you for your perspective
I don't drink alcohol and don't smoke, so they can get rid of that crap too....but don't you dare take away my cherry cokes

I'm not familiar with any of those things being used in mass murders though?

---

"According to the National Institutes of Health, obesity and overweight together are the second leading cause of preventable death in the United States, close behind tobacco use (3). An estimated 300,000 deaths per year are due to the obesity epidemic (57)."

Color me shocked that deaths from guns are the only deaths that require legislation and bans.

hokiewolf said:

---

PackFansXL said:

---

The issue really has nothing to do with gun laws either. The issue is our propensity to make terrible choices in this country while trying to justify those choices with idiotic rationalizations made for political power.

---

now that something I could get behind. First step, end political primaries and got to rank choice voting.

---

Second step is term limits and the elimination of making a career out of being a politician.

I am so behind term limits

Packchem91 said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Now it's the scary 30 round mag.

---

I just would like to understand the need for a 30 round magazine.

---

The simplest answer is because the other guy has a 30 round magazine. What would be an appropriate sized magazine for you?

---

10. I personally have a 7+1 for my rifle and that's enough ammo for a couple hunting trips

---

Cool. Enjoy. I have 3-4 30 round magazines for my AR, multiple 15 round magazines for my pistols. Plenty of ammo for hunting trips.

---

why do you need that much ammo for hunting? I have done long Caribou trips with my brother in law and we don't have anything g close to that

---

I don't "need" it for hunting. I have plenty of ammo for hunting trips. I only use my AR in a hunting capacity for depredation hunting every year. Fully loaded. Never go through whole mag, but it's available if needed.

---

I'm not trying to badger you or trap you in an argument btw, but other than a theoretical other guy has a 30 round capacity magazine, what would be the condition in which you would need a 30 round magazine? If they went away, what function are you losing with your rifle?

---

You keep asking it over and over though. Like examples above, it's simply because somebody made them.

---

so basically if they went away no one would miss them and you'd still have a functional rifle.

Just because they are available isn't justification for having them in the market, especially if the only purpose that I've seen so far for a 30 round magazine is to do harm to other people.

---

So why do we make vehicles that go 0 to 60 in less than 3 seconds? Why do they sell grain alcohol when a few beers can give you a buzz. Why are cigarettes and all forms of tobacco still legal when they cause cancer? When someone gets killed by a drunk driver, do they call for cars with less HP?

The point is that this country was born through freedoms to make the choices we make. You also have the freedom to pay for stupid decision you make. And before any screamers come at me, no the victims didn't have the choice on how their lives ended. That's why things have to change at the root cause level.

We have to enforce the laws that are already on the books in this country. How many incidences occur from repeat offenders? How many DUI's have multiple offenses? People have to be held accountable for stupid choices. And when e have people troubled mentally, they need help.

We can't ignore these issues in people. But, keep the focus on the tool they use instead of the tool they've become as human beings and nothing will change.

---

from accounts, the laws were enforced, and he was still able to get these tools of killing.
seems there is a point where you think, maybe the laws are no longer enough Basically....its the fundamental this country was built on -- you elect leaders to make adjustments as things go.

I agree with all who say address the people making these terrible actions...but you can't just ignore the other part. But our national dialogue will attempt to do just that.

---

Not ignoring anything. If all of the things he supposedly did were filed by the law enforcement, then how was he able to purchase a gun. I've heard a lot of things he supposedly did were ignored by police. Again, the red flags were there as always happens in these cases.

I know what you mean. I still have a couple of 30 round banana clips I brought home from the Army decades ago. They might actually be worth something someday.

Quote:

---

Not ignoring anything. If all of the things he supposedly did were filed by the law enforcement, then how was he able to purchase a gun. I've heard a lot of things he supposedly did were ignored by police. Again, the red flags were there as always happens in these cases.

---

I am curious about these "things he supposedly did." I haven't seen anything other than conjecture on this thread. Do you have a link to share?

Everpack said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Everpack said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Now it's the scary 30 round mag.

---

I ask this in all seriousness.....at what point do you need a 30 round mag?

---

I ask this in all seriousness…..at what point do you need to drive over 55 mph?

At what point do you need to be able to order a sugary soft drink?

At what point do you need to be able to buy a fifth of liqueur?

At what point do you need to buy cigarettes?

At what point do you need anything beyond basic shelter, water and food you grow?

There's the problem with slippery slopes based on need, they get really ****ing slippery.

---

Thank you for your perspective
I don't drink alcohol and don't smoke, so they can get rid of that crap too....but don't you dare take away my cherry cokes

I'm not familiar with any of those things being used in mass murders though?

---

"According to the National Institutes of Health, obesity and overweight together are the second leading cause of preventable death in the United States, close behind tobacco use (3). An estimated 300,000 deaths per year are due to the obesity epidemic (57)."

Color me shocked that deaths from guns are the only deaths that require legislation and bans.

---

Well obesity never killed someone other than the person making a poor decision. A not insignificant difference

Steve Videtich said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Now it's the scary 30 round mag.

---

I just would like to understand the need for a 30 round magazine.

---

The simplest answer is because the other guy has a 30 round magazine. What would be an appropriate sized magazine for you?

---

10. I personally have a 7+1 for my rifle and that's enough ammo for a couple hunting trips

---

Cool. Enjoy. I have 3-4 30 round magazines for my AR, multiple 15 round magazines for my pistols. Plenty of ammo for hunting trips.

---

why do you need that much ammo for hunting? I have done long Caribou trips with my brother in law and we don't have anything g close to that

---

I don't "need" it for hunting. I have plenty of ammo for hunting trips. I only use my AR in a hunting capacity for depredation hunting every year. Fully loaded. Never go through whole mag, but it's available if needed.

---

I'm not trying to badger you or trap you in an argument btw, but other than a theoretical other guy has a 30 round capacity magazine, what would be the condition in which you would need a 30 round magazine? If they went away, what function are you losing with your rifle?

---

You keep asking it over and over though. Like examples above, it's simply because somebody made them.

---

so basically if they went away no one would miss them and you'd still have a functional rifle.

Just because they are available isn't justification for having them in the market, especially if the only purpose that I've seen so far for a 30 round magazine is to do harm to other people.

---

So why do we make vehicles that go 0 to 60 in less than 3 seconds? Why do they sell grain alcohol when a few beers can give you a buzz. Why are cigarettes and all forms of tobacco still legal when they cause cancer? When someone gets killed by a drunk driver, do they call for cars with less HP?

The point is that this country was born through freedoms to make the choices we make. You also have the freedom to pay for stupid decision you make. And before any screamers come at me, no the victims didn't have the choice on how their lives ended. That's why things have to change at the root cause level.

We have to enforce the laws that are already on the books in this country. How many incidences occur from repeat offenders? How many DUI's have multiple offenses? People have to be held accountable for stupid choices. And when e have people troubled mentally, they need help.

We can't ignore these issues in people. But, keep the focus on the tool they use instead of the tool they've become as human beings and nothing will change.

---

from accounts, the laws were enforced, and he was still able to get these tools of killing.
seems there is a point where you think, maybe the laws are no longer enough Basically....its the fundamental this country was built on -- you elect leaders to make adjustments as things go.

I agree with all who say address the people making these terrible actions...but you can't just ignore the other part. But our national dialogue will attempt to do just that.

---

Not ignoring anything. If all of the things he supposedly did were filed by the law enforcement, then how was he able to purchase a gun. I've heard a lot of things he supposedly did were ignored by police. Again, the red flags were there as always happens in these cases.

---

What are these things he did?
Other than being odd and maybe not social?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10860977/Texas-Rep-Tony-Gonzalez-Uvalde-gunman-arrested-4-years-ago-threatening-shoot-school.html

Packchem91 said:

---

Everpack said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Everpack said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Now it's the scary 30 round mag.

---

I ask this in all seriousness.....at what point do you need a 30 round mag?

---

I ask this in all seriousness…..at what point do you need to drive over 55 mph?

At what point do you need to be able to order a sugary soft drink?

At what point do you need to be able to buy a fifth of liqueur?

At what point do you need to buy cigarettes?

At what point do you need anything beyond basic shelter, water and food you grow?

There's the problem with slippery slopes based on need, they get really ****ing slippery.

---

Thank you for your perspective
I don't drink alcohol and don't smoke, so they can get rid of that crap too....but don't you dare take away my cherry cokes

I'm not familiar with any of those things being used in mass murders though?

---

"According to the National Institutes of Health, obesity and overweight together are the second leading cause of preventable death in the United States, close behind tobacco use (3). An estimated 300,000 deaths per year are due to the obesity epidemic (57)."

Color me shocked that deaths from guns are the only deaths that require legislation and bans.

---

Well obesity never killed someone other than the person making a poor decision. A not insignificant difference

---

Never say never. Heart attack victims do indeed sometimes kill themselves and others when the event occurs while they are operating a motor vehicle.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23343022/

Quote:

---

A disease attack while driving is a relatively common cause of death on the road. Severe injuries may mask the role of an initial disease attack. This hypothesis is supported by the data collected on sleeping and background accidents. Thus, the drivers' disease attacks might have an even broader impact than initially assumed. Monitoring driver health and recognizing comorbidity problems could play a large role in the promotion of road safety. The current method of monitoring the fitness to drive and producing accident statistics should be reevaluated.

---

PackFansXL said:

---

Quote:

---

Not ignoring anything. If all of the things he supposedly did were filed by the law enforcement, then how was he able to purchase a gun. I've heard a lot of things he supposedly did were ignored by police. Again, the red flags were there as always happens in these cases.

---

I am curious about these "things he supposedly did." I haven't seen anything other than conjecture on this thread. Do you have a link to share?

---

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/05/25/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-gunman/

This discusses him riding around shooting random people with a BB gun. I've heard more stuff on talk radio. But, that's why I say supposedly. Also heard things like him putting in boxing gloves and going around punching random people.

packemup said:

---

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10860977/Texas-Rep-Tony-Gonzalez-Uvalde-gunman-arrested-4-years-ago-threatening-shoot-school.html

---

Very informative article. Thanks for the link.

So, he may or may not have been one of two kids arrested for threats back in 2018. The shooter had an estranged relationship with his mother who is a drug addict. There was another threat made by a former student back in 2020. So sick and so sad.

Packchem91 said:

---

Everpack said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Everpack said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Now it's the scary 30 round mag.

---

I ask this in all seriousness.....at what point do you need a 30 round mag?

---

I ask this in all seriousness…..at what point do you need to drive over 55 mph?

At what point do you need to be able to order a sugary soft drink?

At what point do you need to be able to buy a fifth of liqueur?

At what point do you need to buy cigarettes?

At what point do you need anything beyond basic shelter, water and food you grow?

There's the problem with slippery slopes based on need, they get really ****ing slippery.

---

Thank you for your perspective
I don't drink alcohol and don't smoke, so they can get rid of that crap too....but don't you dare take away my cherry cokes

I'm not familiar with any of those things being used in mass murders though?

---

"According to the National Institutes of Health, obesity and overweight together are the second leading cause of preventable death in the United States, close behind tobacco use (3). An estimated 300,000 deaths per year are due to the obesity epidemic (57)."

Color me shocked that deaths from guns are the only deaths that require legislation and bans.

---

Well obesity never killed someone other than the person making a poor decision. A not insignificant difference

---

Here I thought dead people were dead.