packgrad said:Bas2020 said:packgrad said:
That's a VERY sketchy phone call.
Very sketchy. 100% an issue of consequence yet it is glossed over by the left and the media. There are articles all the time about how the transfer of power will be if Trump loses, yet crickets about this.
The problem with your assumption here is that the media has been very upfront about their feelings for Trump since the day he became president....its revisionist history to go back now and say that trump has caused all of the issues between him and the media.Civilized said:cowboypack02 said:Did the same thing to McCain and Ronmey as well when they were running for President.Pacfanweb said:They did the same thing to W.Civilized said:
If the MSM portrays our next pub president as negatively as they do Trump, IPS pubs can lambast me for being wrong. I'll eat a heaping pile of crow. He gets covered differently because he is different.
Only difference is, W didn't fight back like Trumps does, so it didn't get as petty and excessive as they are with Trump, but they covered W the same as they do Trump.
About the only difference is 9/11. They had to back off because W's handling of that was pretty awesome and he was very popular at that time and they knew the country didn't want to hear/see them bashing him....but as soon as enough time went by they went right back at him.
Trump gives it right back to them. Does it get into a nasty tit for tat that we could all do without...yes...but the media doesn't have any integrity in the whole matter. The fact of the matter is that if the media treated Trump like they treated Obama we would have to hear Trump talk about how they are all best friends.
Even when the Obama administration did things like spy on a reporter (James Rosen) no one in the media cared because of the letter behind the name.
I think that's a false equivalency between negative reporting about Bush vs. Trump. Was the press critical with Bush, McCain, etc.? Yes, but not nearly to the same degree. You can't just say they did "it" with Bush, McCain, Romney, et. al. too. If "it" is critical reporting there is a massive range of frequencies and intensities of "it".
The frequency and intensity of negative MSM reporting is not in the same ballpark with past pub presidents and candidates as it is with Trump.
You guys are couching this as simply anti-pub sentiment in the MSM when really it's anti-pub sentiment amplified significantly by the particulars of Trump's impulsivity and personality.
cowboypack02 said:
The problem with your assumption here is that the media has been very upfront about their feelings for Trump since the day he became president....its revisionist history to go back now and say that trump has caused all of the issues between him and the media.
Did mainstream media (minus Fox), treat Bush and Romney unfairly? Yes.cowboypack02 said:Did the same thing to McCain and Ronmey as well when they were running for President.Pacfanweb said:They did the same thing to W.Civilized said:
If the MSM portrays our next pub president as negatively as they do Trump, IPS pubs can lambast me for being wrong. I'll eat a heaping pile of crow. He gets covered differently because he is different.
Only difference is, W didn't fight back like Trumps does, so it didn't get as petty and excessive as they are with Trump, but they covered W the same as they do Trump.
About the only difference is 9/11. They had to back off because W's handling of that was pretty awesome and he was very popular at that time and they knew the country didn't want to hear/see them bashing him....but as soon as enough time went by they went right back at him.
Trump gives it right back to them. Does it get into a nasty tit for tat that we could all do without...yes...but the media doesn't have any integrity in the whole matter. The fact of the matter is that if the media treated Trump like they treated Obama we would have to hear Trump talk about how they are all best friends.
Even when the Obama administration did things like spy on a reporter (James Rosen) no one in the media cared because of the letter behind the name.
Civilized said:cowboypack02 said:
The problem with your assumption here is that the media has been very upfront about their feelings for Trump since the day he became president....its revisionist history to go back now and say that trump has caused all of the issues between him and the media.
They were immediately negative after his election.
Their negativity has gotten even worse, to some arguable degree, because he's so caustic and adversarial.
Both those things can be true.
packgrad said:
Does Biden think Trump is making the vaccine, not scientists? Loco.
Civilized said:packgrad said:
Does Biden think Trump is making the vaccine, not scientists? Loco.
This isn't even partisan.
He's 100%, unequivocally correct and nitpicking his words here is ridiculous.
Do you trust what Trump says about vaccines?
If so, what has he done to earn your trust in his knowledge in vaccines, his lack of ulterior motives, and his ability to communicate about them clearly and effectively?
Who should we listen to for guidance on vaccines, Trump or scientists (Fauci or some other expert of your choosing)?
packgrad said:
The president determines which vaccines are safe? I don't think so. Another lie from Joe.
cowboypack02 said:The problem with your assumption here is that the media has been very upfront about their feelings for Trump since the day heCivilized said:cowboypack02 said:Did the same thing to McCain and Ronmey as well when they were running for President.Pacfanweb said:They did the same thing to W.Civilized said:
If the MSM portrays our next pub president as negatively as they do Trump, IPS pubs can lambast me for being wrong. I'll eat a heaping pile of crow. He gets covered differently because he is different.
Only difference is, W didn't fight back like Trumps does, so it didn't get as petty and excessive as they are with Trump, but they covered W the same as they do Trump.
About the only difference is 9/11. They had to back off because W's handling of that was pretty awesome and he was very popular at that time and they knew the country didn't want to hear/see them bashing him....but as soon as enough time went by they went right back at him.
Trump gives it right back to them. Does it get into a nasty tit for tat that we could all do without...yes...but the media doesn't have any integrity in the whole matter. The fact of the matter is that if the media treated Trump like they treated Obama we would have to hear Trump talk about how they are all best friends.
Even when the Obama administration did things like spy on a reporter (James Rosen) no one in the media cared because of the letter behind the name.
I think that's a false equivalency between negative reporting about Bush vs. Trump. Was the press critical with Bush, McCain, etc.? Yes, but not nearly to the same degree. You can't just say they did "it" with Bush, McCain, Romney, et. al. too. If "it" is critical reporting there is a massive range of frequencies and intensities of "it".
The frequency and intensity of negative MSM reporting is not in the same ballpark with past pub presidents and candidates as it is with Trump.
You guys are couching this as simply anti-pub sentiment in the MSM when really it's anti-pub sentiment amplified significantly by the particulars of Trump's impulsivity and personality.became president. won the election...its revisionist history to go back now and say that trump has caused all of the issues between him and the media.
Fixed that for you.
Civilized said:packgrad said:
The president determines which vaccines are safe? I don't think so. Another lie from Joe.
It's not just which vaccines are safe.
Who trusts the President's guidance at this point about anything relating to vaccines, or Coronavirus?
When he says we'll have a safe and fully tested vaccine by November, do you believe him?
Or do you believe the scientists that say a safe vaccine will take longer than that to get to market?
The point more broadly is that the sitting President has completely lost the American public's trust about the most important public health and economic issue our country has faced in decades.
Would you expect his political rival to not bring up that fact? Voter trust is a huge issue in every campaign.
ciscopack said:They are made to hunt with but like many things, they would kill humans. Assault rifles are made to kill humans!caryking said:I'm not sure I follow what you are saying. Of the 8 or so guns you own, which one is "Not" human killing?ciscopack said:
Bill tried to ban assault rifles but there were too many holes in the 95-4 voted bill to get human killing weapons off the shelves (they are human killing weapons...not for rabbits or squirrel or dear or bear). Now far left, far right and middle of the roaders own them.....not me, yet.
packgrad said:
If you want to argue about what Joe lied about we can. Seems you're willing to just sweep his lies under the rug. We have 24/7 news cycles that keep track of every single mistruth/ exaggeration Trump says to use it as an excuse for him not being trustworthy. Biden clearly is a compulsive liar, but somehow he's trustworthy because he's not orange man?
What has Biden done to earn your trust in regards to coronavirus at this point? Certainly nothing strategic. He's been on the wrong side of decisions or basically says he'd do the same things that have been done.
I think the president hopes a vaccine will be out by November. I think if you take it as anything other than that, it's just your search for outrage. I don't think he's lost the American Public's trust any more so than his political rivals or the media that try to mischaracterize everything he says/does.
Civilized said:packgrad said:
If you want to argue about what Joe lied about we can. Seems you're willing to just sweep his lies under the rug. We have 24/7 news cycles that keep track of every single mistruth/ exaggeration Trump says to use it as an excuse for him not being trustworthy. Biden clearly is a compulsive liar, but somehow he's trustworthy because he's not orange man?
What has Biden done to earn your trust in regards to coronavirus at this point? Certainly nothing strategic. He's been on the wrong side of decisions or basically says he'd do the same things that have been done.
I think the president hopes a vaccine will be out by November. I think if you take it as anything other than that, it's just your search for outrage. I don't think he's lost the American Public's trust any more so than his political rivals or the media that try to mischaracterize everything he says/does.
On a 10-scale, rate how much/how badly Trump, Obama, Bush, and Clinton lied and hyperbolized.
Just completely subjectively, I'm not asking for data. Just how you feel about it.
cowboypack02 said:Civilized said:packgrad said:
If you want to argue about what Joe lied about we can. Seems you're willing to just sweep his lies under the rug. We have 24/7 news cycles that keep track of every single mistruth/ exaggeration Trump says to use it as an excuse for him not being trustworthy. Biden clearly is a compulsive liar, but somehow he's trustworthy because he's not orange man?
What has Biden done to earn your trust in regards to coronavirus at this point? Certainly nothing strategic. He's been on the wrong side of decisions or basically says he'd do the same things that have been done.
I think the president hopes a vaccine will be out by November. I think if you take it as anything other than that, it's just your search for outrage. I don't think he's lost the American Public's trust any more so than his political rivals or the media that try to mischaracterize everything he says/does.
On a 10-scale, rate how much/how badly Trump, Obama, Bush, and Clinton lied and hyperbolized.
Just completely subjectively, I'm not asking for data. Just how you feel about it.
You want to treat politicians like some holier that thou group of people who aren't supposed to lie to you. I expect them to lie....every single one of them. That's why I look at the actions that they take as opposed to what comes out of their mouth. If you get your feathers all riled up because a politician lies to you I dunno what to tell you man.
Only one of these people was disbarred for lying under oath....and it wasn't Trump
Trump's been in DC for 4 years. Will be there a max of 4 more years. Biden has been lying to the public for 50 years. He has a much longer track record. He's been there long enough, with relatively little to show for it.Civilized said:cowboypack02 said:Civilized said:packgrad said:
If you want to argue about what Joe lied about we can. Seems you're willing to just sweep his lies under the rug. We have 24/7 news cycles that keep track of every single mistruth/ exaggeration Trump says to use it as an excuse for him not being trustworthy. Biden clearly is a compulsive liar, but somehow he's trustworthy because he's not orange man?
What has Biden done to earn your trust in regards to coronavirus at this point? Certainly nothing strategic. He's been on the wrong side of decisions or basically says he'd do the same things that have been done.
I think the president hopes a vaccine will be out by November. I think if you take it as anything other than that, it's just your search for outrage. I don't think he's lost the American Public's trust any more so than his political rivals or the media that try to mischaracterize everything he says/does.
On a 10-scale, rate how much/how badly Trump, Obama, Bush, and Clinton lied and hyperbolized.
Just completely subjectively, I'm not asking for data. Just how you feel about it.
You want to treat politicians like some holier that thou group of people who aren't supposed to lie to you. I expect them to lie....every single one of them. That's why I look at the actions that they take as opposed to what comes out of their mouth. If you get your feathers all riled up because a politician lies to you I dunno what to tell you man.
Only one of these people was disbarred for lying under oath....and it wasn't Trump
A petty thief and a murderer are both criminals but there's a clear difference in severity of their crimes.
Lying politicians can be evaluated similarly. It's not binary. It's not whether they lie, or not. It's how often, and how badly.
Pacfanweb said:Trump's been in DC for 4 years. Will be there a max of 4 more years. Biden has been lying to the public for 50 years. He has a much longer track record. He's been there long enough, with relatively little to show for it.Civilized said:cowboypack02 said:Civilized said:packgrad said:
If you want to argue about what Joe lied about we can. Seems you're willing to just sweep his lies under the rug. We have 24/7 news cycles that keep track of every single mistruth/ exaggeration Trump says to use it as an excuse for him not being trustworthy. Biden clearly is a compulsive liar, but somehow he's trustworthy because he's not orange man?
What has Biden done to earn your trust in regards to coronavirus at this point? Certainly nothing strategic. He's been on the wrong side of decisions or basically says he'd do the same things that have been done.
I think the president hopes a vaccine will be out by November. I think if you take it as anything other than that, it's just your search for outrage. I don't think he's lost the American Public's trust any more so than his political rivals or the media that try to mischaracterize everything he says/does.
On a 10-scale, rate how much/how badly Trump, Obama, Bush, and Clinton lied and hyperbolized.
Just completely subjectively, I'm not asking for data. Just how you feel about it.
You want to treat politicians like some holier that thou group of people who aren't supposed to lie to you. I expect them to lie....every single one of them. That's why I look at the actions that they take as opposed to what comes out of their mouth. If you get your feathers all riled up because a politician lies to you I dunno what to tell you man.
Only one of these people was disbarred for lying under oath....and it wasn't Trump
A petty thief and a murderer are both criminals but there's a clear difference in severity of their crimes.
Lying politicians can be evaluated similarly. It's not binary. It's not whether they lie, or not. It's how often, and how badly.
Imagine if the press had him under a microscope for even half that time, reporting on every gaffe and misspeak he committed.
Civilized said:cowboypack02 said:Civilized said:packgrad said:
If you want to argue about what Joe lied about we can. Seems you're willing to just sweep his lies under the rug. We have 24/7 news cycles that keep track of every single mistruth/ exaggeration Trump says to use it as an excuse for him not being trustworthy. Biden clearly is a compulsive liar, but somehow he's trustworthy because he's not orange man?
What has Biden done to earn your trust in regards to coronavirus at this point? Certainly nothing strategic. He's been on the wrong side of decisions or basically says he'd do the same things that have been done.
I think the president hopes a vaccine will be out by November. I think if you take it as anything other than that, it's just your search for outrage. I don't think he's lost the American Public's trust any more so than his political rivals or the media that try to mischaracterize everything he says/does.
On a 10-scale, rate how much/how badly Trump, Obama, Bush, and Clinton lied and hyperbolized.
Just completely subjectively, I'm not asking for data. Just how you feel about it.
You want to treat politicians like some holier that thou group of people who aren't supposed to lie to you. I expect them to lie....every single one of them. That's why I look at the actions that they take as opposed to what comes out of their mouth. If you get your feathers all riled up because a politician lies to you I dunno what to tell you man.
Only one of these people was disbarred for lying under oath....and it wasn't Trump
A petty thief and a murderer are both criminals but there's a clear difference in severity of their crimes.
Lying politicians can be evaluated similarly. It's not binary. It's not whether they lie, or not. It's how often, and how badly.
Yep, and honestly....most of Trump's "lies" are pure hyperbole. Greatly exaggerating. Not outright untruths, like Biden, although Trump does that, too. But most things he gets bashed about in the media are usually more hyperbole than anything else, but it's passed off as "lying" by the Democratic media. Which is, 99.9% of the media, so might as well say "All the media".cowboypack02 said:Civilized said:cowboypack02 said:Civilized said:packgrad said:
If you want to argue about what Joe lied about we can. Seems you're willing to just sweep his lies under the rug. We have 24/7 news cycles that keep track of every single mistruth/ exaggeration Trump says to use it as an excuse for him not being trustworthy. Biden clearly is a compulsive liar, but somehow he's trustworthy because he's not orange man?
What has Biden done to earn your trust in regards to coronavirus at this point? Certainly nothing strategic. He's been on the wrong side of decisions or basically says he'd do the same things that have been done.
I think the president hopes a vaccine will be out by November. I think if you take it as anything other than that, it's just your search for outrage. I don't think he's lost the American Public's trust any more so than his political rivals or the media that try to mischaracterize everything he says/does.
On a 10-scale, rate how much/how badly Trump, Obama, Bush, and Clinton lied and hyperbolized.
Just completely subjectively, I'm not asking for data. Just how you feel about it.
You want to treat politicians like some holier that thou group of people who aren't supposed to lie to you. I expect them to lie....every single one of them. That's why I look at the actions that they take as opposed to what comes out of their mouth. If you get your feathers all riled up because a politician lies to you I dunno what to tell you man.
Only one of these people was disbarred for lying under oath....and it wasn't Trump
A petty thief and a murderer are both criminals but there's a clear difference in severity of their crimes.
Lying politicians can be evaluated similarly. It's not binary. It's not whether they lie, or not. It's how often, and how badly.
A lie is a lie...just because you agree or disagree with who is lying to you doesn't change the fact that your being lied to
Aw, come on, guy.packgrad said:
I tend to think Biden saying if the president had done his job, ALL of the people would be alive is about as bad a lie as you can say.
bigeric said:Aw, come on, guy.packgrad said:
I tend to think Biden saying if the president had done his job, ALL of the people would be alive is about as bad a lie as you can say.
Maybe I should have posted:cowboypack02 said:bigeric said:Aw, come on, guy.packgrad said:
I tend to think Biden saying if the president had done his job, ALL of the people would be alive is about as bad a lie as you can say.
Directly blaming the president of the US for 180k deaths is a hell of a lie
bigeric said:Maybe I should have posted:cowboypack02 said:bigeric said:Aw, come on, guy.packgrad said:
I tend to think Biden saying if the president had done his job, ALL of the people would be alive is about as bad a lie as you can say.
Directly blaming the president of the US for 180k deaths is a hell of a lie
"Aw, come on, guy."
- Joe Biden -
I disagree. Telling a lie under oath is much much worse than your basic lie that all politicians tell.cowboypack02 said:Civilized said:cowboypack02 said:Civilized said:packgrad said:
If you want to argue about what Joe lied about we can. Seems you're willing to just sweep his lies under the rug. We have 24/7 news cycles that keep track of every single mistruth/ exaggeration Trump says to use it as an excuse for him not being trustworthy. Biden clearly is a compulsive liar, but somehow he's trustworthy because he's not orange man?
What has Biden done to earn your trust in regards to coronavirus at this point? Certainly nothing strategic. He's been on the wrong side of decisions or basically says he'd do the same things that have been done.
I think the president hopes a vaccine will be out by November. I think if you take it as anything other than that, it's just your search for outrage. I don't think he's lost the American Public's trust any more so than his political rivals or the media that try to mischaracterize everything he says/does.
On a 10-scale, rate how much/how badly Trump, Obama, Bush, and Clinton lied and hyperbolized.
Just completely subjectively, I'm not asking for data. Just how you feel about it.
You want to treat politicians like some holier that thou group of people who aren't supposed to lie to you. I expect them to lie....every single one of them. That's why I look at the actions that they take as opposed to what comes out of their mouth. If you get your feathers all riled up because a politician lies to you I dunno what to tell you man.
Only one of these people was disbarred for lying under oath....and it wasn't Trump
A petty thief and a murderer are both criminals but there's a clear difference in severity of their crimes.
Lying politicians can be evaluated similarly. It's not binary. It's not whether they lie, or not. It's how often, and how badly.
A lie is a lie...just because you agree or disagree with who is lying to you doesn't change the fact that your being lied to
Cthepack said:I disagree. Telling a lie under oath is much much worse than your basic lie that all politicians tell.cowboypack02 said:
A lie is a lie...just because you agree or disagree with who is lying to you doesn't change the fact that your being lied to
Civilized said:Cthepack said:I disagree. Telling a lie under oath is much much worse than your basic lie that all politicians tell.cowboypack02 said:
A lie is a lie...just because you agree or disagree with who is lying to you doesn't change the fact that your being lied to
I once heard someone describe it as politicians falling within a standard deviation of honesty. Politicians use hyperbole and misspeak some, and occasionally blatantly lie. That's common.
Most politicians fall within some standard deviation from the norm.
