Pack 9 Recruiting and Portal News

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Jtilley
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CLTWolf said:

Jtilley said:

StateFan2001 said:

Jtilley said:

Here are the transfers/juco hitters we have taken over the last seven years that made it past fall ball.....

2024- Amak, Pennington, Butters, Hogue

2023- Harrison, Trice, Candelaria, Nolan

2022- Gino, Piolli, Hood, Lavoie, Oldham, Godman

2021- Truitt

2020- Murr

2019- Butler

2018- Edwards

That is an extremely high hit rate, and the ones that didn't pan out were mostly depth pieces anyways.






The difference is most of those guys were proven college hitters. I am just surprised coming off a CWS run and having a strong NIL budget that we are landing unproven hitters vs. guys who we have already seen succeed in college baseball.
They are bringing in Thompson who is proven and another Juco bat. Jaros hit .343 in limited sample with as many walks as strikeouts and was top 150 recruit.

We can split hairs over Ozzy but you aren't finding many kids with his power upside in the portal. He is worth the risk.
We are aligned in our thinking, I think.

I mean if we bring in a dude that hit .258 his prior season and had never hit over .300 in his career people would complain about that. "Why are we bringing in a guy that doesn't hit good!?!" They wouldn't be using the "proven college hitter" trope. I'm also not sure how a JUCO kid is considered a proven hitter.

Both Jaros and Ozzie played in summer collegiate leagues against college players and crushed it just weeks after graduating HS (Ozzie was Cal Ripken Collegiate league hitter of the year last summer). Jaros hit .378 in 111 plate appearances in another collegiate summer league. There's data there that these kids can play and both have the 'crootin pedigree that some love as well.

What should also not get lost in all of this are the connections that the staff has with these two. Jaros (as mentioned frequently) is from Cranford, NJ where we have massive connections ranging from Rob Chmra, Ryan Williamson, Andrew Ciencin to current Pack player Shane Van Dam. Do we not think that our staff didn't talk to Danny Hall and his staff about Jaros?
Ossenfort attended the same HS as former Pack player David Vazquez. Stoneman Douglas is coached by Todd Fitz-Gerald who also coached Vazquez and he's sending his son Devin to play at State (assuming the draft cooperates). I think Hart got all the info he needed on Ozzie.
I think Coach Fitz-Gerald has had something like 20 plus kids drafted over his HS coaching career.

I chose to be excited about these kids but that's just me.




We are aligned. I think we both know Chris Harts track record. If he wants you, we should be happy. People just don't like the idea of an unproven guy.

How would we feel if Sosa transfered? I'd think we would be upset knowing that we were losing him after how he came on later in the year and the flashes he showed. From the outside in though everyone would lose it wanting to take a guy after seeing him struggle and go through a 0-37 slump.
James Henderson
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Jtilley said:

James Henderson said:

pack2010 said:

James Henderson said:

pack2010 said:

James Henderson said:

wilmwolf said:

kbdavis33 said:

Personally I'm glad James said it.

We can hope relatively "unproven" guys turn out to be multi-year studs.

But from a team that was 3 outs away from being in a major position to try and win a championship I'm kinda shocked that the guys we've gone after aren't already collegiate studs.

Maybe these adds are just competitive depth for now but I was definitely expecting AMak/Pennington level replacements out of the portal. Maybe we are still going after them. But so far I'm not on the "wow these are great options" train
How many dudes in the portal fit the description of collegiate studs?
Why do you need college studs? I want proven, college starters.

Buttersworth, Thompson, A Mak, Candalaria, Pennington, all fit that.



Candalaria was our worst hitter in ACC play, FWIW. Not a great example. I realize he had good overall numbers, and was dinged up in ACC play, but still started 25 of 29 games and was not productive.

So if that is what you want, go ahead. I'll take my chances on Jaros having better than a .670 OPS in conference play.
So you wouldn't want Candalaria in your lineup after what we just saw from last year? Yeah, we disagree.

We can replace him with Groover though if that works better.

No where did I say that. He was a solid player, but stats are stats. You want proven, college starters. I simply provided stats that proved Candalaria really struggled in ACC play. I would PROJECT Jaros to do better, statistically. That is what projecting is.

Also, Groover was a stud. Not just a proven college starter. So that isn't a good comparison.
Groover at CLT: .351 BA/.870 OPS/4 HRs, 14 Doubles

Candelaria at Davidson pre-State: .342 BA/1.059 OPS/13 HRs/62 RBIs/19 Doubles

I'd argue Candalaria was certainly a stud on paper when State took him if you consider Groover to have been one.

You responded to me stating what Candalaria was when State landed him, not what he did at NC State.
Now do Pilolli. He is the best comp IMO for someone that transferred in with limited sample size.

We liked that transfer until everyone learned he was still hurt and never really recovered.


What about Piloli? What he did pre-State?

Pilolli hit .403 with a 1.048 OPS, two home runs, 14 RBI 27 hits as a freshman AA. In 2021 he was .274/.395/.495 with four home runs and nine stolen bases.

We can add Penn transfer Josh Hood as another proven starter State brought in.
James Henderson
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pack2010 said:

James Henderson said:

pack2010 said:

James Henderson said:

pack2010 said:

James Henderson said:

wilmwolf said:

kbdavis33 said:

Personally I'm glad James said it.

We can hope relatively "unproven" guys turn out to be multi-year studs.

But from a team that was 3 outs away from being in a major position to try and win a championship I'm kinda shocked that the guys we've gone after aren't already collegiate studs.

Maybe these adds are just competitive depth for now but I was definitely expecting AMak/Pennington level replacements out of the portal. Maybe we are still going after them. But so far I'm not on the "wow these are great options" train
How many dudes in the portal fit the description of collegiate studs?
Why do you need college studs? I want proven, college starters.

Buttersworth, Thompson, A Mak, Candalaria, Pennington, all fit that.



Candalaria was our worst hitter in ACC play, FWIW. Not a great example. I realize he had good overall numbers, and was dinged up in ACC play, but still started 25 of 29 games and was not productive.

So if that is what you want, go ahead. I'll take my chances on Jaros having better than a .670 OPS in conference play.
So you wouldn't want Candalaria in your lineup after what we just saw from last year? Yeah, we disagree.

We can replace him with Groover though if that works better.

No where did I say that. He was a solid player, but stats are stats. You want proven, college starters. I simply provided stats that proved Candalaria really struggled in ACC play. I would PROJECT Jaros to do better, statistically. That is what projecting is.

Also, Groover was a stud. Not just a proven college starter. So that isn't a good comparison.
Groover at CLT: .351 BA/.870 OPS/4 HRs, 14 Doubles

Candelaria at Davidson pre-State: .342 BA/1.059 OPS/13 HRs/62 RBIs/19 Doubles

I'd argue Candalaria was certainly a stud on paper when State took him if you consider Groover to have been one.

You responded to me stating what Candalaria was when State landed him, not what he did at NC State.

Candalaria was absolutely a great take out of Davidson, he had a fantastic career there. And I am happy he spent his last year in Raleigh.

At this point I think you are arguing just to argue. I am stating that sometimes your proven, college starters struggle in ACC play. It is a different animal. Candalaria was a bad offensive player over 25 games. If you want to dispute that, sure. But your proven guys don't always work out. Jaros/Ozze could be great players next year, they could be duds that get benched. We don't know what will happen. Just like we didn't project Canalaria to be a poor hitter in ACC play or Parker Nolan to be benched down the stretch, things happen.
No, I'm not arguing just to argue. You're the one arguing about Candalaria, not me.

I listed himibecause I said "I want proven, college starters." He was a proven college starter at Davidson when State took him, which is what I was referring to.

You then brought up what he did or didn't do at State. Obviously they still have to be good or not once in Raleigh.
Jtilley
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James Henderson said:

Jtilley said:

James Henderson said:

pack2010 said:

James Henderson said:

pack2010 said:

James Henderson said:

wilmwolf said:

kbdavis33 said:

Personally I'm glad James said it.

We can hope relatively "unproven" guys turn out to be multi-year studs.

But from a team that was 3 outs away from being in a major position to try and win a championship I'm kinda shocked that the guys we've gone after aren't already collegiate studs.

Maybe these adds are just competitive depth for now but I was definitely expecting AMak/Pennington level replacements out of the portal. Maybe we are still going after them. But so far I'm not on the "wow these are great options" train
How many dudes in the portal fit the description of collegiate studs?
Why do you need college studs? I want proven, college starters.

Buttersworth, Thompson, A Mak, Candalaria, Pennington, all fit that.



Candalaria was our worst hitter in ACC play, FWIW. Not a great example. I realize he had good overall numbers, and was dinged up in ACC play, but still started 25 of 29 games and was not productive.

So if that is what you want, go ahead. I'll take my chances on Jaros having better than a .670 OPS in conference play.
So you wouldn't want Candalaria in your lineup after what we just saw from last year? Yeah, we disagree.

We can replace him with Groover though if that works better.

No where did I say that. He was a solid player, but stats are stats. You want proven, college starters. I simply provided stats that proved Candalaria really struggled in ACC play. I would PROJECT Jaros to do better, statistically. That is what projecting is.

Also, Groover was a stud. Not just a proven college starter. So that isn't a good comparison.
Groover at CLT: .351 BA/.870 OPS/4 HRs, 14 Doubles

Candelaria at Davidson pre-State: .342 BA/1.059 OPS/13 HRs/62 RBIs/19 Doubles

I'd argue Candalaria was certainly a stud on paper when State took him if you consider Groover to have been one.

You responded to me stating what Candalaria was when State landed him, not what he did at NC State.
Now do Pilolli. He is the best comp IMO for someone that transferred in with limited sample size.

We liked that transfer until everyone learned he was still hurt and never really recovered.


What about Piloli? What he did pre-State?

Pilolli hitting .403 with a 1.048 OPS, two home runs, 14 RBI 27 hits as a freshman AA. In 2021 he was .274/.395/.495 with four home runs and nine stolen bases.

We can add Penn transfer Josh Hood as another proven starter State brought in.

The line is skewed though, he only played in 17 games with 67 AB's when he was a freshman AA.

27 games and 95 AB's the second year with a damn near 30% K rate.

I would say that is not a proven player and there was a lot of "Projecting" involved.
James Henderson
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Jtilley said:

James Henderson said:

Jtilley said:

James Henderson said:

pack2010 said:

James Henderson said:

pack2010 said:

James Henderson said:

wilmwolf said:

kbdavis33 said:

Personally I'm glad James said it.

We can hope relatively "unproven" guys turn out to be multi-year studs.

But from a team that was 3 outs away from being in a major position to try and win a championship I'm kinda shocked that the guys we've gone after aren't already collegiate studs.

Maybe these adds are just competitive depth for now but I was definitely expecting AMak/Pennington level replacements out of the portal. Maybe we are still going after them. But so far I'm not on the "wow these are great options" train
How many dudes in the portal fit the description of collegiate studs?
Why do you need college studs? I want proven, college starters.

Buttersworth, Thompson, A Mak, Candalaria, Pennington, all fit that.



Candalaria was our worst hitter in ACC play, FWIW. Not a great example. I realize he had good overall numbers, and was dinged up in ACC play, but still started 25 of 29 games and was not productive.

So if that is what you want, go ahead. I'll take my chances on Jaros having better than a .670 OPS in conference play.
So you wouldn't want Candalaria in your lineup after what we just saw from last year? Yeah, we disagree.

We can replace him with Groover though if that works better.

No where did I say that. He was a solid player, but stats are stats. You want proven, college starters. I simply provided stats that proved Candalaria really struggled in ACC play. I would PROJECT Jaros to do better, statistically. That is what projecting is.

Also, Groover was a stud. Not just a proven college starter. So that isn't a good comparison.
Groover at CLT: .351 BA/.870 OPS/4 HRs, 14 Doubles

Candelaria at Davidson pre-State: .342 BA/1.059 OPS/13 HRs/62 RBIs/19 Doubles

I'd argue Candalaria was certainly a stud on paper when State took him if you consider Groover to have been one.

You responded to me stating what Candalaria was when State landed him, not what he did at NC State.
Now do Pilolli. He is the best comp IMO for someone that transferred in with limited sample size.

We liked that transfer until everyone learned he was still hurt and never really recovered.


What about Piloli? What he did pre-State?

Pilolli hitting .403 with a 1.048 OPS, two home runs, 14 RBI 27 hits as a freshman AA. In 2021 he was .274/.395/.495 with four home runs and nine stolen bases.

We can add Penn transfer Josh Hood as another proven starter State brought in.

The line is skewed though, he only played in 17 games with 67 AB's when he was a freshman AA.

27 games and 95 AB's the second year with a damn near 30% K rate.

I would say that is not a proven player and there was a lot of "Projecting" involved.

Right, he had COVID in 2020 to limit his at-bats that year, they were limited for everyone. I'm also not sure we were bringing in Piloli projecting him to be a starter but I could be wrong.

But if we want to add Piloli to the projection side and lump him in with Jaros/Ossenfort, do you think he panned out? Does that make you feel better about the takes?

Jtilley
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James Henderson said:

Jtilley said:

James Henderson said:

Jtilley said:

James Henderson said:

pack2010 said:

James Henderson said:

pack2010 said:

James Henderson said:

wilmwolf said:

kbdavis33 said:

Personally I'm glad James said it.

We can hope relatively "unproven" guys turn out to be multi-year studs.

But from a team that was 3 outs away from being in a major position to try and win a championship I'm kinda shocked that the guys we've gone after aren't already collegiate studs.

Maybe these adds are just competitive depth for now but I was definitely expecting AMak/Pennington level replacements out of the portal. Maybe we are still going after them. But so far I'm not on the "wow these are great options" train
How many dudes in the portal fit the description of collegiate studs?
Why do you need college studs? I want proven, college starters.

Buttersworth, Thompson, A Mak, Candalaria, Pennington, all fit that.



Candalaria was our worst hitter in ACC play, FWIW. Not a great example. I realize he had good overall numbers, and was dinged up in ACC play, but still started 25 of 29 games and was not productive.

So if that is what you want, go ahead. I'll take my chances on Jaros having better than a .670 OPS in conference play.
So you wouldn't want Candalaria in your lineup after what we just saw from last year? Yeah, we disagree.

We can replace him with Groover though if that works better.

No where did I say that. He was a solid player, but stats are stats. You want proven, college starters. I simply provided stats that proved Candalaria really struggled in ACC play. I would PROJECT Jaros to do better, statistically. That is what projecting is.

Also, Groover was a stud. Not just a proven college starter. So that isn't a good comparison.
Groover at CLT: .351 BA/.870 OPS/4 HRs, 14 Doubles

Candelaria at Davidson pre-State: .342 BA/1.059 OPS/13 HRs/62 RBIs/19 Doubles

I'd argue Candalaria was certainly a stud on paper when State took him if you consider Groover to have been one.

You responded to me stating what Candalaria was when State landed him, not what he did at NC State.
Now do Pilolli. He is the best comp IMO for someone that transferred in with limited sample size.

We liked that transfer until everyone learned he was still hurt and never really recovered.


What about Piloli? What he did pre-State?

Pilolli hitting .403 with a 1.048 OPS, two home runs, 14 RBI 27 hits as a freshman AA. In 2021 he was .274/.395/.495 with four home runs and nine stolen bases.

We can add Penn transfer Josh Hood as another proven starter State brought in.

The line is skewed though, he only played in 17 games with 67 AB's when he was a freshman AA.

27 games and 95 AB's the second year with a damn near 30% K rate.

I would say that is not a proven player and there was a lot of "Projecting" involved.

Right, he had COVID in 2020 to limit his at-bats that year, they were limited for everyone. I'm also not sure we were bringing in Piloli projecting him to be a starter but I could be wrong.

But if we want to add Piloli to the projection side and lump him in with Jaros/Ossenfort, do you think he panned out? Does that make you feel better about the takes?


I think he would have panned out if he hadn't been hurt but he never really recovered from the ACL tear.

He started 47 games his first year here as well, mostly at DH but was a depth guy year two.

I just hate the takes knowing Harts background. He has proven it time and time again, the guy knows hitters.
CLTWolf
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James Henderson said:

CLTWolf said:

James Henderson said:

wilmwolf said:

James Henderson said:

wilmwolf said:

I don't see much difference in taking a transfer who hasn't played much and taking a high school recruit, and we've had plenty of success with high school recruits who come in and play right away.
Yeah only diff. is you have the 1 year of the transfer not producing vs. the hope of not having that type of year from a HS recruit.

Like I don't think we'd be taking Chance Mako as a transfer expecting him to play a major role for us in 2025 based on what he did this year.
Do we have a year of these transfers not producing? It's not like either of these dues started 50 games and just weren't good. As pointed out before, this is very similar situation to your boy Noah Rogers, yet you are taking the opposite stance. Weird.
Who was Marvin Harrison/Emeka Ebuka at Vanderbilt or GT? The guy who Vandy is choosing over Ossenfort hit 5 HRs and .250 last year IIRC. Vandy had 2 guys hit double-digit HRs on the team (10/13), they didn't have 2 1st rders starting ahead of Ossenfort.

Kind of shockd they didn't find a way to get Ossenfort's pop in that weak lineup, but maybe those guys are Marvin Harrison and Ebuka!!!!

So no, I don't see the comparison to Noah Rogers.
RJ Austin, arguably Vandy's best player played 45 games at first on the year. Seems strange that he would get that much time there but he did. Holcomb was a top 40 HS guy but played only 13 games at first this year. Austin was the guy that slotted into the position once Maldonado got hurt and was out for the season. He was behind their best player and highest rated HS recruit.

Noah didn't need to beat out Marv or Emeka. He needed to beat out Fleming and Carnell Tate, who was the buckeyes highest rated recruit in Noah's class.
Carnell Tate was the No. 1 WR in the country in that class. Fleming was in his class and also played some slot. I doubt we'd view Noah any diff. if he got the 17 catches or whatever it was Tate had in minimal snaps behind Ebuka/Marv.

You also could have played Ossenfort's pop at DH given how little power Vandy had.
Fleming wasn't in the same class, he was older being in the 2020 class. Of course we don't view Noah any different b/c of where he's from and the connections he has to NC State. If anything we probably have a bit of an inflated view of Noah but I'm fine with that b/c he's one of us now.

I maybe have an inflated view of Ozzie b/c I know Chris Hart knows what he's looking for and the fact that he's got a LONG time relationship with Todd Fitz-Gerald. That tells me maybe we should give Ozzie the benefit of the doubt. Question it all you want, that's fine. You know I have some of the same questions about it but at the same time I'm not gonna call it a negative that we took him. I'm fine being wrong if the kid falls on his face. Ain't the first time and won't be the last I'm wrong about something.
James Henderson
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Jtilley said:

James Henderson said:

Jtilley said:

James Henderson said:

Jtilley said:

James Henderson said:

pack2010 said:

James Henderson said:

pack2010 said:

James Henderson said:

wilmwolf said:

kbdavis33 said:

Personally I'm glad James said it.

We can hope relatively "unproven" guys turn out to be multi-year studs.

But from a team that was 3 outs away from being in a major position to try and win a championship I'm kinda shocked that the guys we've gone after aren't already collegiate studs.

Maybe these adds are just competitive depth for now but I was definitely expecting AMak/Pennington level replacements out of the portal. Maybe we are still going after them. But so far I'm not on the "wow these are great options" train
How many dudes in the portal fit the description of collegiate studs?
Why do you need college studs? I want proven, college starters.

Buttersworth, Thompson, A Mak, Candalaria, Pennington, all fit that.



Candalaria was our worst hitter in ACC play, FWIW. Not a great example. I realize he had good overall numbers, and was dinged up in ACC play, but still started 25 of 29 games and was not productive.

So if that is what you want, go ahead. I'll take my chances on Jaros having better than a .670 OPS in conference play.
So you wouldn't want Candalaria in your lineup after what we just saw from last year? Yeah, we disagree.

We can replace him with Groover though if that works better.

No where did I say that. He was a solid player, but stats are stats. You want proven, college starters. I simply provided stats that proved Candalaria really struggled in ACC play. I would PROJECT Jaros to do better, statistically. That is what projecting is.

Also, Groover was a stud. Not just a proven college starter. So that isn't a good comparison.
Groover at CLT: .351 BA/.870 OPS/4 HRs, 14 Doubles

Candelaria at Davidson pre-State: .342 BA/1.059 OPS/13 HRs/62 RBIs/19 Doubles

I'd argue Candalaria was certainly a stud on paper when State took him if you consider Groover to have been one.

You responded to me stating what Candalaria was when State landed him, not what he did at NC State.
Now do Pilolli. He is the best comp IMO for someone that transferred in with limited sample size.

We liked that transfer until everyone learned he was still hurt and never really recovered.


What about Piloli? What he did pre-State?

Pilolli hitting .403 with a 1.048 OPS, two home runs, 14 RBI 27 hits as a freshman AA. In 2021 he was .274/.395/.495 with four home runs and nine stolen bases.

We can add Penn transfer Josh Hood as another proven starter State brought in.

The line is skewed though, he only played in 17 games with 67 AB's when he was a freshman AA.

27 games and 95 AB's the second year with a damn near 30% K rate.

I would say that is not a proven player and there was a lot of "Projecting" involved.

Right, he had COVID in 2020 to limit his at-bats that year, they were limited for everyone. I'm also not sure we were bringing in Piloli projecting him to be a starter but I could be wrong.

But if we want to add Piloli to the projection side and lump him in with Jaros/Ossenfort, do you think he panned out? Does that make you feel better about the takes?


I think he would have panned out if he hadn't been hurt but he never really recovered from the ACL tear.

He started 47 games his first year here as well, mostly at DH but was a depth guy year two.

I just hate the takes knowing Harts background. He has proven it time and time again, the guy knows hitters.
Right, my thought on this is independent of Hart or NC State. It's simply I'm a little cautious about having to project two guys to come in and be major power producers when they didn't do it in year 1 at a different school.

The "let's just trust it" deal is tough to rely on here given we've yet to have a guy with their background come here and pan out.

Doesn't mean I'm anti-NC State or Hart. I think Hart is the freaking man.
James Henderson
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CLTWolf said:

James Henderson said:

CLTWolf said:

James Henderson said:

wilmwolf said:

James Henderson said:

wilmwolf said:

I don't see much difference in taking a transfer who hasn't played much and taking a high school recruit, and we've had plenty of success with high school recruits who come in and play right away.
Yeah only diff. is you have the 1 year of the transfer not producing vs. the hope of not having that type of year from a HS recruit.

Like I don't think we'd be taking Chance Mako as a transfer expecting him to play a major role for us in 2025 based on what he did this year.
Do we have a year of these transfers not producing? It's not like either of these dues started 50 games and just weren't good. As pointed out before, this is very similar situation to your boy Noah Rogers, yet you are taking the opposite stance. Weird.
Who was Marvin Harrison/Emeka Ebuka at Vanderbilt or GT? The guy who Vandy is choosing over Ossenfort hit 5 HRs and .250 last year IIRC. Vandy had 2 guys hit double-digit HRs on the team (10/13), they didn't have 2 1st rders starting ahead of Ossenfort.

Kind of shockd they didn't find a way to get Ossenfort's pop in that weak lineup, but maybe those guys are Marvin Harrison and Ebuka!!!!

So no, I don't see the comparison to Noah Rogers.
RJ Austin, arguably Vandy's best player played 45 games at first on the year. Seems strange that he would get that much time there but he did. Holcomb was a top 40 HS guy but played only 13 games at first this year. Austin was the guy that slotted into the position once Maldonado got hurt and was out for the season. He was behind their best player and highest rated HS recruit.

Noah didn't need to beat out Marv or Emeka. He needed to beat out Fleming and Carnell Tate, who was the buckeyes highest rated recruit in Noah's class.
Carnell Tate was the No. 1 WR in the country in that class. Fleming was in his class and also played some slot. I doubt we'd view Noah any diff. if he got the 17 catches or whatever it was Tate had in minimal snaps behind Ebuka/Marv.

You also could have played Ossenfort's pop at DH given how little power Vandy had.
Fleming wasn't in the same class, he was older being in the 2020 class. Of course we don't view Noah any different b/c of where he's from and the connections he has to NC State. If anything we probably have a bit of an inflated view of Noah but I'm fine with that b/c he's one of us now.

I maybe have an inflated view of Ozzie b/c I know Chris Hart knows what he's looking for and the fact that he's got a LONG time relationship with Todd Fitz-Gerald. That tells me maybe we should give Ozzie the benefit of the doubt. Question it all you want, that's fine. You know I have some of the same questions about it but at the same time I'm not gonna call it a negative that we took him. I'm fine being wrong if the kid falls on his face. Ain't the first time and won't be the last I'm wrong about something.
Sorry, when I said 'in his class' I meant he was, like Tate, the No. 1 WR in his class.



I'm fine taking both guys, I'd just like to either have paired a proven dude with them or hopefully add proven dudes as well, which I assume will be tough given both of these kids are coming in to start.
stategrad06
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Overall I trust Hart a lot in making the projections. And college freshman often times don't swing it well - it's an adjustment.

I have concerns over Jaros taking some time to get healthy - he needs AB's in the fall. Ideally you want to get guys as many AB's as you can - especially guys that haven't played a lot.

At same time - if a better guy emerges in portal and you have the opportunity to pick them up - I absolutely think you do it.
JCooke93
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Go Pack9
Englishwolf44
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Isn't it possible that they will target a more proven (1-year remaining) corner infielder to compete with Jaros and Ossenfort?
CLTWolf
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Englishwolf44 said:

Isn't it possible that they will target a more proven (1-year remaining) corner infielder to compete with Jaros and Ossenfort?
Definitely possible.

Probably harder to get a one year guy to come and compete when they only have one year left but certainly not impossible.
James Henderson
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Englishwolf44 said:

Isn't it possible that they will target a more proven (1-year remaining) corner infielder to compete with Jaros and Ossenfort?
Yep just tough given the expectation both have for their roles.

Maybe a freshman can provide some spark or you can add a corner infielder and pitch him on DH?
Jtilley
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James Henderson said:

Jtilley said:

James Henderson said:

Jtilley said:

James Henderson said:

Jtilley said:

James Henderson said:

pack2010 said:

James Henderson said:

pack2010 said:

James Henderson said:

wilmwolf said:

kbdavis33 said:

Personally I'm glad James said it.

We can hope relatively "unproven" guys turn out to be multi-year studs.

But from a team that was 3 outs away from being in a major position to try and win a championship I'm kinda shocked that the guys we've gone after aren't already collegiate studs.

Maybe these adds are just competitive depth for now but I was definitely expecting AMak/Pennington level replacements out of the portal. Maybe we are still going after them. But so far I'm not on the "wow these are great options" train
How many dudes in the portal fit the description of collegiate studs?
Why do you need college studs? I want proven, college starters.

Buttersworth, Thompson, A Mak, Candalaria, Pennington, all fit that.



Candalaria was our worst hitter in ACC play, FWIW. Not a great example. I realize he had good overall numbers, and was dinged up in ACC play, but still started 25 of 29 games and was not productive.

So if that is what you want, go ahead. I'll take my chances on Jaros having better than a .670 OPS in conference play.
So you wouldn't want Candalaria in your lineup after what we just saw from last year? Yeah, we disagree.

We can replace him with Groover though if that works better.

No where did I say that. He was a solid player, but stats are stats. You want proven, college starters. I simply provided stats that proved Candalaria really struggled in ACC play. I would PROJECT Jaros to do better, statistically. That is what projecting is.

Also, Groover was a stud. Not just a proven college starter. So that isn't a good comparison.
Groover at CLT: .351 BA/.870 OPS/4 HRs, 14 Doubles

Candelaria at Davidson pre-State: .342 BA/1.059 OPS/13 HRs/62 RBIs/19 Doubles

I'd argue Candalaria was certainly a stud on paper when State took him if you consider Groover to have been one.

You responded to me stating what Candalaria was when State landed him, not what he did at NC State.
Now do Pilolli. He is the best comp IMO for someone that transferred in with limited sample size.

We liked that transfer until everyone learned he was still hurt and never really recovered.


What about Piloli? What he did pre-State?

Pilolli hitting .403 with a 1.048 OPS, two home runs, 14 RBI 27 hits as a freshman AA. In 2021 he was .274/.395/.495 with four home runs and nine stolen bases.

We can add Penn transfer Josh Hood as another proven starter State brought in.

The line is skewed though, he only played in 17 games with 67 AB's when he was a freshman AA.

27 games and 95 AB's the second year with a damn near 30% K rate.

I would say that is not a proven player and there was a lot of "Projecting" involved.

Right, he had COVID in 2020 to limit his at-bats that year, they were limited for everyone. I'm also not sure we were bringing in Piloli projecting him to be a starter but I could be wrong.

But if we want to add Piloli to the projection side and lump him in with Jaros/Ossenfort, do you think he panned out? Does that make you feel better about the takes?


I think he would have panned out if he hadn't been hurt but he never really recovered from the ACL tear.

He started 47 games his first year here as well, mostly at DH but was a depth guy year two.

I just hate the takes knowing Harts background. He has proven it time and time again, the guy knows hitters.
Right, my thought on this is independent of Hart or NC State. It's simply I'm a little cautious about having to project two guys to come in and be major power producers when they didn't do it in year 1 at a different school.

The "let's just trust it" deal is tough to rely on here given we've yet to have a guy with their background come here and pan out.

Doesn't mean I'm anti-NC State or Hart. I think Hart is the freaking man.
This is like the Tommy White situation when he left. You aren't going to just find a guy to replace the numbers he put up.

Amak and Pennington would be almost impossible to replace from anyway you look at it as well.

Now can a guy like Sosa take that next step like most of us think and improve on his numbers from this past year?

Thompson looks to be an upgrade in the OF as well, what if he makes another jump?

Can Hogue come back and put up similar numbers or better?

What about the freshman?

I would bet we are not done in the portal and you can still see activity at DH/SS maybe another OF spot.



James Henderson
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Staff
Jtilley said:

James Henderson said:

Jtilley said:

James Henderson said:

Jtilley said:

James Henderson said:

Jtilley said:

James Henderson said:

pack2010 said:

James Henderson said:

pack2010 said:

James Henderson said:

wilmwolf said:

kbdavis33 said:

Personally I'm glad James said it.

We can hope relatively "unproven" guys turn out to be multi-year studs.

But from a team that was 3 outs away from being in a major position to try and win a championship I'm kinda shocked that the guys we've gone after aren't already collegiate studs.

Maybe these adds are just competitive depth for now but I was definitely expecting AMak/Pennington level replacements out of the portal. Maybe we are still going after them. But so far I'm not on the "wow these are great options" train
How many dudes in the portal fit the description of collegiate studs?
Why do you need college studs? I want proven, college starters.

Buttersworth, Thompson, A Mak, Candalaria, Pennington, all fit that.



Candalaria was our worst hitter in ACC play, FWIW. Not a great example. I realize he had good overall numbers, and was dinged up in ACC play, but still started 25 of 29 games and was not productive.

So if that is what you want, go ahead. I'll take my chances on Jaros having better than a .670 OPS in conference play.
So you wouldn't want Candalaria in your lineup after what we just saw from last year? Yeah, we disagree.

We can replace him with Groover though if that works better.

No where did I say that. He was a solid player, but stats are stats. You want proven, college starters. I simply provided stats that proved Candalaria really struggled in ACC play. I would PROJECT Jaros to do better, statistically. That is what projecting is.

Also, Groover was a stud. Not just a proven college starter. So that isn't a good comparison.
Groover at CLT: .351 BA/.870 OPS/4 HRs, 14 Doubles

Candelaria at Davidson pre-State: .342 BA/1.059 OPS/13 HRs/62 RBIs/19 Doubles

I'd argue Candalaria was certainly a stud on paper when State took him if you consider Groover to have been one.

You responded to me stating what Candalaria was when State landed him, not what he did at NC State.
Now do Pilolli. He is the best comp IMO for someone that transferred in with limited sample size.

We liked that transfer until everyone learned he was still hurt and never really recovered.


What about Piloli? What he did pre-State?

Pilolli hitting .403 with a 1.048 OPS, two home runs, 14 RBI 27 hits as a freshman AA. In 2021 he was .274/.395/.495 with four home runs and nine stolen bases.

We can add Penn transfer Josh Hood as another proven starter State brought in.

The line is skewed though, he only played in 17 games with 67 AB's when he was a freshman AA.

27 games and 95 AB's the second year with a damn near 30% K rate.

I would say that is not a proven player and there was a lot of "Projecting" involved.

Right, he had COVID in 2020 to limit his at-bats that year, they were limited for everyone. I'm also not sure we were bringing in Piloli projecting him to be a starter but I could be wrong.

But if we want to add Piloli to the projection side and lump him in with Jaros/Ossenfort, do you think he panned out? Does that make you feel better about the takes?


I think he would have panned out if he hadn't been hurt but he never really recovered from the ACL tear.

He started 47 games his first year here as well, mostly at DH but was a depth guy year two.

I just hate the takes knowing Harts background. He has proven it time and time again, the guy knows hitters.
Right, my thought on this is independent of Hart or NC State. It's simply I'm a little cautious about having to project two guys to come in and be major power producers when they didn't do it in year 1 at a different school.

The "let's just trust it" deal is tough to rely on here given we've yet to have a guy with their background come here and pan out.

Doesn't mean I'm anti-NC State or Hart. I think Hart is the freaking man.
This is like the Tommy White situation when he left. You aren't going to just find a guy to replace the numbers he put up.

Amak and Pennington would be almost impossible to replace from anyway you look at it as well.

Now can a guy like Sosa take that next step like most of us think and improve on his numbers from this past year?

Thompson looks to be an upgrade in the OF as well, what if he makes another jump?

Can Hogue come back and put up similar numbers or better?

What about the freshman?

I would bet we are not done in the portal and you can still see activity at DH/SS maybe another OF spot.




Right, I don't think anyone is expecting plug and play 20+ homers from the two replacements. I was referring to the power they provide.

I'll take Sosa sliding into the Cozart role from a lineup standpoint. Thompson... Serrano?

Yep, we can't be done adding bats or pitching.
JCooke93
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We aren't done yet
JCooke93
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100%
CLTWolf
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James Henderson said:

Englishwolf44 said:

Isn't it possible that they will target a more proven (1-year remaining) corner infielder to compete with Jaros and Ossenfort?
Yep just tough given the expectation both have for their roles.

Maybe a freshman can provide some spark or you can add a corner infielder and pitch him on DH?
I think someone already did this but I couldn't find it

Let's say this is how it shakes down...

1B- Ozzie
2B - L. Nixon/Devin Fitz-Gerald?
SS - portal or Butters comes back or Devin Fitz-Gerald/Nixon gets a shot?
3B - Jaros
C - Alex Sosa
DH - Hogue
LF - Thompson
CF - Head/Thompson (prolly Thompson unless Head makes it to school)
RF - Brayden Fraasman/Hogue

So I could definitely see an opportunity/situation where we could bring another bat in to compete at the CIF positions or land at DH. If Head shows up maybe the coaches don't feel like that need is there as much? If DFG gets drafted/signs along with Head then we'll probably want to bring a CIF as well as a SS for sure.

IMO, those questions don't get answered until after the draft and after the signing deadline which I assume is at the end of the month like last year.

Having Hogue DH would be best for him and our OF defense, IMO. Thompson, Head and Fraasman can run and cover some ground out there.
Jtilley
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James Henderson said:

Jtilley said:

James Henderson said:

Jtilley said:

James Henderson said:

Jtilley said:

James Henderson said:

Jtilley said:

James Henderson said:

pack2010 said:

James Henderson said:

pack2010 said:

James Henderson said:

wilmwolf said:

kbdavis33 said:

Personally I'm glad James said it.

We can hope relatively "unproven" guys turn out to be multi-year studs.

But from a team that was 3 outs away from being in a major position to try and win a championship I'm kinda shocked that the guys we've gone after aren't already collegiate studs.

Maybe these adds are just competitive depth for now but I was definitely expecting AMak/Pennington level replacements out of the portal. Maybe we are still going after them. But so far I'm not on the "wow these are great options" train
How many dudes in the portal fit the description of collegiate studs?
Why do you need college studs? I want proven, college starters.

Buttersworth, Thompson, A Mak, Candalaria, Pennington, all fit that.



Candalaria was our worst hitter in ACC play, FWIW. Not a great example. I realize he had good overall numbers, and was dinged up in ACC play, but still started 25 of 29 games and was not productive.

So if that is what you want, go ahead. I'll take my chances on Jaros having better than a .670 OPS in conference play.
So you wouldn't want Candalaria in your lineup after what we just saw from last year? Yeah, we disagree.

We can replace him with Groover though if that works better.

No where did I say that. He was a solid player, but stats are stats. You want proven, college starters. I simply provided stats that proved Candalaria really struggled in ACC play. I would PROJECT Jaros to do better, statistically. That is what projecting is.

Also, Groover was a stud. Not just a proven college starter. So that isn't a good comparison.
Groover at CLT: .351 BA/.870 OPS/4 HRs, 14 Doubles

Candelaria at Davidson pre-State: .342 BA/1.059 OPS/13 HRs/62 RBIs/19 Doubles

I'd argue Candalaria was certainly a stud on paper when State took him if you consider Groover to have been one.

You responded to me stating what Candalaria was when State landed him, not what he did at NC State.
Now do Pilolli. He is the best comp IMO for someone that transferred in with limited sample size.

We liked that transfer until everyone learned he was still hurt and never really recovered.


What about Piloli? What he did pre-State?

Pilolli hitting .403 with a 1.048 OPS, two home runs, 14 RBI 27 hits as a freshman AA. In 2021 he was .274/.395/.495 with four home runs and nine stolen bases.

We can add Penn transfer Josh Hood as another proven starter State brought in.

The line is skewed though, he only played in 17 games with 67 AB's when he was a freshman AA.

27 games and 95 AB's the second year with a damn near 30% K rate.

I would say that is not a proven player and there was a lot of "Projecting" involved.

Right, he had COVID in 2020 to limit his at-bats that year, they were limited for everyone. I'm also not sure we were bringing in Piloli projecting him to be a starter but I could be wrong.

But if we want to add Piloli to the projection side and lump him in with Jaros/Ossenfort, do you think he panned out? Does that make you feel better about the takes?


I think he would have panned out if he hadn't been hurt but he never really recovered from the ACL tear.

He started 47 games his first year here as well, mostly at DH but was a depth guy year two.

I just hate the takes knowing Harts background. He has proven it time and time again, the guy knows hitters.
Right, my thought on this is independent of Hart or NC State. It's simply I'm a little cautious about having to project two guys to come in and be major power producers when they didn't do it in year 1 at a different school.

The "let's just trust it" deal is tough to rely on here given we've yet to have a guy with their background come here and pan out.

Doesn't mean I'm anti-NC State or Hart. I think Hart is the freaking man.
This is like the Tommy White situation when he left. You aren't going to just find a guy to replace the numbers he put up.

Amak and Pennington would be almost impossible to replace from anyway you look at it as well.

Now can a guy like Sosa take that next step like most of us think and improve on his numbers from this past year?

Thompson looks to be an upgrade in the OF as well, what if he makes another jump?

Can Hogue come back and put up similar numbers or better?

What about the freshman?

I would bet we are not done in the portal and you can still see activity at DH/SS maybe another OF spot.




Right, I don't think anyone is expecting plug and play 20+ homers from the two replacements. I was referring to the power they provide.

I'll take Sosa sliding into the Cozart role from a lineup standpoint. Thompson... Serrano?

Yep, we can't be done adding bats or pitching.
I liked to look at like this:

From the team that just went to Omaha you had a DH, LF, 2B and RF whose combined average was .236 with 17HR's, 90 RBI's and 102 runs.

AMAK alone hit 24 HR's with 84 RBI's and 66 runs.

There is a very clear path to upgrading the roster without feeling like you have to replace Amak or Pennington's power numbers, or even be close.

FLWolf
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Sosa is key next year
StateFan2001
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James Henderson said:

CLTWolf said:

James Henderson said:

JCooke93 said:

We will be fine
I agree, but I think for some not being over the moon about projecting at two power spots = mad/upset/worried they won't hit.
some are mad/worried/upset tho....that's the issue. haha
I think it's certainly fine to question replacing A Mak and Pennington's production with unknowns given the other unknowns with the lineup relative to power.

I certainly see a case where Jaros and Ossenfort pan out but we've just not seen that profile at State (outside of Truitt) so it's hard to feel 100% confident in the projection. Surprised that's a controversial take.
Its not a controversial take. Its just that you can't say anything semi-critical without the thought police coming in Wilmwolf and CLTwolf
StateFan2001
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CLTWolf said:

James Henderson said:

CLTWolf said:

James Henderson said:

wilmwolf said:

James Henderson said:

wilmwolf said:

I don't see much difference in taking a transfer who hasn't played much and taking a high school recruit, and we've had plenty of success with high school recruits who come in and play right away.
Yeah only diff. is you have the 1 year of the transfer not producing vs. the hope of not having that type of year from a HS recruit.

Like I don't think we'd be taking Chance Mako as a transfer expecting him to play a major role for us in 2025 based on what he did this year.
Do we have a year of these transfers not producing? It's not like either of these dues started 50 games and just weren't good. As pointed out before, this is very similar situation to your boy Noah Rogers, yet you are taking the opposite stance. Weird.
Who was Marvin Harrison/Emeka Ebuka at Vanderbilt or GT? The guy who Vandy is choosing over Ossenfort hit 5 HRs and .250 last year IIRC. Vandy had 2 guys hit double-digit HRs on the team (10/13), they didn't have 2 1st rders starting ahead of Ossenfort.

Kind of shockd they didn't find a way to get Ossenfort's pop in that weak lineup, but maybe those guys are Marvin Harrison and Ebuka!!!!

So no, I don't see the comparison to Noah Rogers.
RJ Austin, arguably Vandy's best player played 45 games at first on the year. Seems strange that he would get that much time there but he did. Holcomb was a top 40 HS guy but played only 13 games at first this year. Austin was the guy that slotted into the position once Maldonado got hurt and was out for the season. He was behind their best player and highest rated HS recruit.

Noah didn't need to beat out Marv or Emeka. He needed to beat out Fleming and Carnell Tate, who was the buckeyes highest rated recruit in Noah's class.
Carnell Tate was the No. 1 WR in the country in that class. Fleming was in his class and also played some slot. I doubt we'd view Noah any diff. if he got the 17 catches or whatever it was Tate had in minimal snaps behind Ebuka/Marv.

You also could have played Ossenfort's pop at DH given how little power Vandy had.
Fleming wasn't in the same class, he was older being in the 2020 class. Of course we don't view Noah any different b/c of where he's from and the connections he has to NC State. If anything we probably have a bit of an inflated view of Noah but I'm fine with that b/c he's one of us now.

I maybe have an inflated view of Ozzie b/c I know Chris Hart knows what he's looking for and the fact that he's got a LONG time relationship with Todd Fitz-Gerald. That tells me maybe we should give Ozzie the benefit of the doubt. Question it all you want, that's fine. You know I have some of the same questions about it but at the same time I'm not gonna call it a negative that we took him. I'm fine being wrong if the kid falls on his face. Ain't the first time and won't be the last I'm wrong about something.
I don't think anyone has an issue with taking either of these players. The issue is if these guys, especially the Vandy kid, is THE option at 1B. If we are bringing him in to compete with another proven guy at 1B then I think we all get that. Even if he doesn't win the job at 1B, there is still a DH spot.
JCooke93
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Today is slow
JCooke93
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Sosa!!!!!
JCooke93
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I miss Butterworth and Eli already!
CLTWolf
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StateFan2001 said:

James Henderson said:

CLTWolf said:

James Henderson said:

JCooke93 said:

We will be fine
I agree, but I think for some not being over the moon about projecting at two power spots = mad/upset/worried they won't hit.
some are mad/worried/upset tho....that's the issue. haha
I think it's certainly fine to question replacing A Mak and Pennington's production with unknowns given the other unknowns with the lineup relative to power.

I certainly see a case where Jaros and Ossenfort pan out but we've just not seen that profile at State (outside of Truitt) so it's hard to feel 100% confident in the projection. Surprised that's a controversial take.
Its not a controversial take. Its just that you can't say anything semi-critical without the thought police coming in Wilmwolf and CLTwolf
This is your best retort? No stats, facts? Anything?

Nope, I didn't think so.

Your first post on the commit thread for Ozzie was more than "semi-critical" but thankfully you found the time to edit to something "semi-critical". You couldn't just muster up a "welcome to the Pack!" and move on to the other threads where the discussion was taking place to offer up your infinite wisdom? No bc that would mean you'd have to have an optimistic and welcoming bone in your body.

Travel ball must be hot and heavy this week. L O L
JCooke93
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Very Curious to see where 2 NashvilleU targets end up going
CLTWolf
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JCooke93 said:

Very Curious to see where 2 NashvilleU targets end up going
Camden Kozeal mainly started at DH for the 'dores although he did play some second for them as well. True FR last year, from Omaha, NE so it wouldn't surprise me to see him head to Lincoln for his next stop.

https://www.perfectgame.org/Players/Playerprofile.aspx?ID=1014075
115th ranked kid by PG

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=kozeal000cam

https://vucommodores.com/roster/camden-kozeal/

https://www.prepbaseballreport.com/profiles/NE/Cam-Kozeal-0423185967-3428516907

Future SS?
65Pack
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Serrano will be the easiest to replace of the position players.
Probably already have…
JCooke93
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And Raymond Velasquez who knows what he is going to do
JCooke93
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Would be nice
matracey
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Definitely a different strategy this year. Can't really argue that. But I'm no more concerned about this strategy than I was about last year's strategy. And I wasn't very concerned last year.

Seems like the strategy from the staff is "We know what to look for in hitters. Let's trust our evals. Let's target guys with multiple years left and really high upside to pair up with our young arms with multiple years left and open up another 2-3 year window to get back to Omaha hopefully multiple times."

Good thing with the portal is if it doesn't work then you just get guys to replace them next year.
Ripper
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Jaros and Ossenfort seem like great pickups. Not sure what the consternation is about. The staff is also not done yet in the portal. Regarding the corner infield slots, they just need to secure one more experienced solid versatile player with some pop who can play both positions, as insurance. With the DH, all will play (rotate) if all 3 pan out.

You don't want too few solid players, but too many is not ideal as well. I feel like Hart will balance out the "playing" roster, like usual.
JCooke93
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Go Pack9
 
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