Wufpack17 said:

---

I like to use common sense...

1) Mentally ill people who have violent thoughts or tendencies, who are medicated, should not have a gun. However, I am well aware that additional regulations won't stop people hell bent on mass murder. Guns are too easy to get out outside of the legal realm. There is no putting the genie back in the bottle.

2) AR-15s are rarely used in homicides.

3) There's always been more guns than people in this country, and yet mass school shootings are a very recent phenomenon. What has changed in the last 20 years? it certainly isn't the number of guns to people.
a) social media
b) politically charged narratives
c) a changing social narrative that deflects away from mental illness
d) 24 hour news cycles that glorify killers

4) By the time the police are called, it's too late. We need secure schools. That means metal detectors, no exterior locks or door handles. This idea that "kids will feel like they are in prison" is an insanely stupid and lazy argument. Kids already attend events where metal detectors are used.

4) See 4, if cops and the government can't protect my family, then I am going to own a gun and I am going to know how to use it. I'd rather have a fighting chance than no chance at all.

5) we already have examples of states and cities with strict gun control measures, and the gun homicide stats don't reflect any real impact of said strict measures.

Ultimately, there is no gun measure that can be put into existence that will stop mass shootings. However, we can do things to try and prevent mentally ill people and other lunatics from possessing a gun, legally and illegally. There's preventative measures we can implement to prevent them in schools, stores, etc. These things can be done without infringing upon law abiding citizens.

---

Great post. 100% agree with all of your points, especially #4. Until you close the gap on the shooter having the weapons advantage, unfortunately you are going to have fatalities.

hokiewolf said:

---

Wufpack17 said:

---

I like to use common sense...

1) Mentally ill people who have violent thoughts or tendencies, who are medicated, should not have a gun. However, I am well aware that additional regulations won't stop people hell bent on mass murder. Guns are too easy to get out outside of the legal realm. There is no putting the genie back in the bottle.

2) AR-15s are rarely used in homicides.

3) There's always been more guns than people in this country, and yet mass school shootings are a very recent phenomenon. What has changed in the last 20 years? it certainly isn't the number of guns to people.
a) social media
b) politically charged narratives
c) a changing social narrative that deflects away from mental illness
d) 24 hour news cycles that glorify killers

4) By the time the police are called, it's too late. We need secure schools. That means metal detectors, no exterior locks or door handles. This idea that "kids will feel like they are in prison" is an insanely stupid and lazy argument. Kids already attend events where metal detectors are used.

4) See 4, if cops and the government can't protect my family, then I am going to own a gun and I am going to know how to use it. I'd rather have a fighting chance than no chance at all.

5) we already have examples of states and cities with strict gun control measures, and the gun homicide stats don't reflect any real impact of said strict measures.

Ultimately, there is no gun measure that can be put into existence that will stop mass shootings. However, we can do things to try and prevent mentally ill people and other lunatics from possessing a gun, legally and illegally. There's preventative measures we can implement to prevent them in schools, stores, etc. These things can be done without infringing upon law abiding citizens.

---

Great post. 100% agree with all of your points, especially #4. Until you close the gap on the shooter having the weapons advantage, unfortunately you are going to have fatalities.

---

So basically, "deal with it"

And i know it will be trotted out about mental health, which is clearly a huge issue. But, at least in the case of these larger shootings, we keep finding people who shouldn't have guns who have them. Over and over.

Packchem91 said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Wufpack17 said:

---

I like to use common sense...

1) Mentally ill people who have violent thoughts or tendencies, who are medicated, should not have a gun. However, I am well aware that additional regulations won't stop people hell bent on mass murder. Guns are too easy to get out outside of the legal realm. There is no putting the genie back in the bottle.

2) AR-15s are rarely used in homicides.

3) There's always been more guns than people in this country, and yet mass school shootings are a very recent phenomenon. What has changed in the last 20 years? it certainly isn't the number of guns to people.
a) social media
b) politically charged narratives
c) a changing social narrative that deflects away from mental illness
d) 24 hour news cycles that glorify killers

4) By the time the police are called, it's too late. We need secure schools. That means metal detectors, no exterior locks or door handles. This idea that "kids will feel like they are in prison" is an insanely stupid and lazy argument. Kids already attend events where metal detectors are used.

4) See 4, if cops and the government can't protect my family, then I am going to own a gun and I am going to know how to use it. I'd rather have a fighting chance than no chance at all.

5) we already have examples of states and cities with strict gun control measures, and the gun homicide stats don't reflect any real impact of said strict measures.

Ultimately, there is no gun measure that can be put into existence that will stop mass shootings. However, we can do things to try and prevent mentally ill people and other lunatics from possessing a gun, legally and illegally. There's preventative measures we can implement to prevent them in schools, stores, etc. These things can be done without infringing upon law abiding citizens.

---

Great post. 100% agree with all of your points, especially #4. Until you close the gap on the shooter having the weapons advantage, unfortunately you are going to have fatalities.

---

So basically, "deal with it"

And i know it will be trotted out about mental health, which is clearly a huge issue. But, at least in the case of these larger shootings, we keep finding people who shouldn't have guns who have them. Over and over.

---

When you disarm every damn criminal in your lefty run cities that are responsible for over 80% of all criminal gun crimes let me know.

Until then you can go pound sand with your passive aggressive BS. You and the rest of your party are exactly what is wrong with America today.

Here is Pinocchio's, Chem's, Civ's and the rest of the "independent's" MSM coverage of school shootings?

Notice the difference?

Had this been a straight white male shooting up a Muslim or Black school the outrage would be insane...

Tran ny shoots up a Christian school killing white people..... crickets.

That tells you all you need to know about them and their character. They are nothing better than the lefties they worship and parrot.

When a shooting fits their narrative vs when a shooting doesn’t: pic.twitter.com/e2RVE4a5Ga

— End Wokeness (@EndWokeness) March 28, 2023

hokiewolf said:

---

Here's what I'll say about this BBW. I agree with you here. There has been a weird response in the media where the narrative of these stories is almost that this shooting was justified for political reasons. It is an incredibly wrong argument excusing acts of violence on children.

---

Other than some wacko far left group, who is excusing this?
I frankly don't care if the shooter is a far right nut or a far left nut. In both cases, they are getting guns that everyone says they shouldn't have had
But who is making changes to ensure they don't?

hokiewolf said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Wufpack17 said:

---

I like to use common sense...

1) Mentally ill people who have violent thoughts or tendencies, who are medicated, should not have a gun. However, I am well aware that additional regulations won't stop people hell bent on mass murder. Guns are too easy to get out outside of the legal realm. There is no putting the genie back in the bottle.

2) AR-15s are rarely used in homicides.

3) There's always been more guns than people in this country, and yet mass school shootings are a very recent phenomenon. What has changed in the last 20 years? it certainly isn't the number of guns to people.
a) social media
b) politically charged narratives
c) a changing social narrative that deflects away from mental illness
d) 24 hour news cycles that glorify killers

4) By the time the police are called, it's too late. We need secure schools. That means metal detectors, no exterior locks or door handles. This idea that "kids will feel like they are in prison" is an insanely stupid and lazy argument. Kids already attend events where metal detectors are used.

4) See 4, if cops and the government can't protect my family, then I am going to own a gun and I am going to know how to use it. I'd rather have a fighting chance than no chance at all.

5) we already have examples of states and cities with strict gun control measures, and the gun homicide stats don't reflect any real impact of said strict measures.

Ultimately, there is no gun measure that can be put into existence that will stop mass shootings. However, we can do things to try and prevent mentally ill people and other lunatics from possessing a gun, legally and illegally. There's preventative measures we can implement to prevent them in schools, stores, etc. These things can be done without infringing upon law abiding citizens.

---

Great post. 100% agree with all of your points, especially #4. Until you close the gap on the shooter having the weapons advantage, unfortunately you are going to have fatalities.

---

So basically, "deal with it"

And i know it will be trotted out about mental health, which is clearly a huge issue. But, at least in the case of these larger shootings, we keep finding people who shouldn't have guns who have them. Over and over.

---

Buddy, there are more guns in the US than there are people. That ship has sailed. The definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over. Banning guns doesn't work. Having gun free school zones doesn't work with respect to mass shootings either. Seems to me there's a middle ground there ....

---

But are people really striving to get to the middle ground. Middle ground means both sides contribute, but what I see here is "I want any gun I can get any time with unlimited ammunition". That is the insanity to which you refer. That's not pursuit of a middle ground

Again, look at the stats in the link above re kids killed by guns. The difference in every other country is staggering

But "it's not the guns" lol

Wufpack17 said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Wufpack17 said:

---

I like to use common sense...

1) Mentally ill people who have violent thoughts or tendencies, who are medicated, should not have a gun. However, I am well aware that additional regulations won't stop people hell bent on mass murder. Guns are too easy to get out outside of the legal realm. There is no putting the genie back in the bottle.

2) AR-15s are rarely used in homicides.

3) There's always been more guns than people in this country, and yet mass school shootings are a very recent phenomenon. What has changed in the last 20 years? it certainly isn't the number of guns to people.
a) social media
b) politically charged narratives
c) a changing social narrative that deflects away from mental illness
d) 24 hour news cycles that glorify killers

4) By the time the police are called, it's too late. We need secure schools. That means metal detectors, no exterior locks or door handles. This idea that "kids will feel like they are in prison" is an insanely stupid and lazy argument. Kids already attend events where metal detectors are used.

4) See 4, if cops and the government can't protect my family, then I am going to own a gun and I am going to know how to use it. I'd rather have a fighting chance than no chance at all.

5) we already have examples of states and cities with strict gun control measures, and the gun homicide stats don't reflect any real impact of said strict measures.

Ultimately, there is no gun measure that can be put into existence that will stop mass shootings. However, we can do things to try and prevent mentally ill people and other lunatics from possessing a gun, legally and illegally. There's preventative measures we can implement to prevent them in schools, stores, etc. These things can be done without infringing upon law abiding citizens.

---

Great post. 100% agree with all of your points, especially #4. Until you close the gap on the shooter having the weapons advantage, unfortunately you are going to have fatalities.

---

So basically, "deal with it"

And i know it will be trotted out about mental health, which is clearly a huge issue. But, at least in the case of these larger shootings, we keep finding people who shouldn't have guns who have them. Over and over.

---

Adapt, not "deal with it".

I believe mental health grouped with social media and 24 hour news feeding delirium, is THE issue. We have politicians on twitter wearing shirts with guns and knives stating "protect trans kids". Again, there's always been more guns than citizens, so why in the last 20-25 years have mass shootings become more common? It ain't the guns! The guns have always been there. Something DID come about 25 years ago, and I'll let you guess what that was.

But I make this comment knowing full and well that those who claim to want to make change, don't really want to have to have a discussion about the REAL cause, and if they don't want to have that discussion, then we are stuck where we are.

---

Per this article, there has been a huge increase in the gun proliferation in the US. I can see the links article, but within it, there is another link to a study on gun proliferation that I can't access.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/12/14/magazine/gun-violence-children-data-statistics.html

A quote from the Times article, which to me completely refutes the absurdity of the "it isn't the gun" argument.
Most of Europe and much of Asia is people living in urban areas. India has tons of poverty. All those countries see the same social media sites and same movies we see and many have poor political leadership. But:

"What is clear is that the United States is an extreme outlier when it comes to gun fatalities among children. When researchers at the Kaiser Family Foundation recently compared a set of similarly large and wealthy nations, they found that among this group, the United States accounted for 46 percent of the child population but 97 percent of all child gun deaths."

Now, you tell me what is different here versus all the other developed nations

hokiewolf said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Wufpack17 said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Wufpack17 said:

---

I like to use common sense...

1) Mentally ill people who have violent thoughts or tendencies, who are medicated, should not have a gun. However, I am well aware that additional regulations won't stop people hell bent on mass murder. Guns are too easy to get out outside of the legal realm. There is no putting the genie back in the bottle.

2) AR-15s are rarely used in homicides.

3) There's always been more guns than people in this country, and yet mass school shootings are a very recent phenomenon. What has changed in the last 20 years? it certainly isn't the number of guns to people.
a) social media
b) politically charged narratives
c) a changing social narrative that deflects away from mental illness
d) 24 hour news cycles that glorify killers

4) By the time the police are called, it's too late. We need secure schools. That means metal detectors, no exterior locks or door handles. This idea that "kids will feel like they are in prison" is an insanely stupid and lazy argument. Kids already attend events where metal detectors are used.

4) See 4, if cops and the government can't protect my family, then I am going to own a gun and I am going to know how to use it. I'd rather have a fighting chance than no chance at all.

5) we already have examples of states and cities with strict gun control measures, and the gun homicide stats don't reflect any real impact of said strict measures.

Ultimately, there is no gun measure that can be put into existence that will stop mass shootings. However, we can do things to try and prevent mentally ill people and other lunatics from possessing a gun, legally and illegally. There's preventative measures we can implement to prevent them in schools, stores, etc. These things can be done without infringing upon law abiding citizens.

---

Great post. 100% agree with all of your points, especially #4. Until you close the gap on the shooter having the weapons advantage, unfortunately you are going to have fatalities.

---

So basically, "deal with it"

And i know it will be trotted out about mental health, which is clearly a huge issue. But, at least in the case of these larger shootings, we keep finding people who shouldn't have guns who have them. Over and over.

---

Adapt, not "deal with it".

I believe mental health grouped with social media and 24 hour news feeding delirium, is THE issue. We have politicians on twitter wearing shirts with guns and knives stating "protect trans kids". Again, there's always been more guns than citizens, so why in the last 20-25 years have mass shootings become more common? It ain't the guns! The guns have always been there. Something DID come about 25 years ago, and I'll let you guess what that was.

But I make this comment knowing full and well that those who claim to want to make change, don't really want to have to have a discussion about the REAL cause, and if they don't want to have that discussion, then we are stuck where we are.

---

Per this article, there has been a huge increase in the gun proliferation in the US. I can see the links article, but within it, there is another link to a study on gun proliferation that I can't access.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/12/14/magazine/gun-violence-children-data-statistics.html

A quote from the Times article, which to me completely refutes the absurdity of the "it isn't the gun" argument.
Most of Europe and much of Asia is people living in urban areas. India has tons of poverty. All those countries see the same social media sites and same movies we see and many have poor political leadership. But:

"What is clear is that the United States is an extreme outlier when it comes to gun fatalities among children. When researchers at the Kaiser Family Foundation recently compared a set of similarly large and wealthy nations, they found that among this group, the United States accounted for 46 percent of the child population but 97 percent of all child gun deaths."

Now, you tell me what is different here versus all the other developed nations

---

We have this thing called a constitution, which we need to work within the framework to create a solution. You are never going to convince me that gun bans are going to prevent a motived mentally unstable person from carrying out their evil. What needs to be done is to figure out a way to shorten the amount of time between when a gunman has the fire power advantage when they go to a soft target.

---

Got it - so again, this notion of "it's not the guns" is poppycock even you don't believe and your solution is to put more guns around "everywhere" to stop people after they start killing?

So…live with it until it happens and hope only 6 get killed because the police can quickly "limit the advantage" the killer has. That feels reassuring

Packchem91 said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Wufpack17 said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Wufpack17 said:

---

I like to use common sense...

1) Mentally ill people who have violent thoughts or tendencies, who are medicated, should not have a gun. However, I am well aware that additional regulations won't stop people hell bent on mass murder. Guns are too easy to get out outside of the legal realm. There is no putting the genie back in the bottle.

2) AR-15s are rarely used in homicides.

3) There's always been more guns than people in this country, and yet mass school shootings are a very recent phenomenon. What has changed in the last 20 years? it certainly isn't the number of guns to people.
a) social media
b) politically charged narratives
c) a changing social narrative that deflects away from mental illness
d) 24 hour news cycles that glorify killers

4) By the time the police are called, it's too late. We need secure schools. That means metal detectors, no exterior locks or door handles. This idea that "kids will feel like they are in prison" is an insanely stupid and lazy argument. Kids already attend events where metal detectors are used.

4) See 4, if cops and the government can't protect my family, then I am going to own a gun and I am going to know how to use it. I'd rather have a fighting chance than no chance at all.

5) we already have examples of states and cities with strict gun control measures, and the gun homicide stats don't reflect any real impact of said strict measures.

Ultimately, there is no gun measure that can be put into existence that will stop mass shootings. However, we can do things to try and prevent mentally ill people and other lunatics from possessing a gun, legally and illegally. There's preventative measures we can implement to prevent them in schools, stores, etc. These things can be done without infringing upon law abiding citizens.

---

Great post. 100% agree with all of your points, especially #4. Until you close the gap on the shooter having the weapons advantage, unfortunately you are going to have fatalities.

---

So basically, "deal with it"

And i know it will be trotted out about mental health, which is clearly a huge issue. But, at least in the case of these larger shootings, we keep finding people who shouldn't have guns who have them. Over and over.

---

Adapt, not "deal with it".

I believe mental health grouped with social media and 24 hour news feeding delirium, is THE issue. We have politicians on twitter wearing shirts with guns and knives stating "protect trans kids". Again, there's always been more guns than citizens, so why in the last 20-25 years have mass shootings become more common? It ain't the guns! The guns have always been there. Something DID come about 25 years ago, and I'll let you guess what that was.

But I make this comment knowing full and well that those who claim to want to make change, don't really want to have to have a discussion about the REAL cause, and if they don't want to have that discussion, then we are stuck where we are.

---

Per this article, there has been a huge increase in the gun proliferation in the US. I can see the links article, but within it, there is another link to a study on gun proliferation that I can't access.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/12/14/magazine/gun-violence-children-data-statistics.html

A quote from the Times article, which to me completely refutes the absurdity of the "it isn't the gun" argument.
Most of Europe and much of Asia is people living in urban areas. India has tons of poverty. All those countries see the same social media sites and same movies we see and many have poor political leadership. But:

"What is clear is that the United States is an extreme outlier when it comes to gun fatalities among children. When researchers at the Kaiser Family Foundation recently compared a set of similarly large and wealthy nations, they found that among this group, the United States accounted for 46 percent of the child population but 97 percent of all child gun deaths."

Now, you tell me what is different here versus all the other developed nations

---

We have this thing called a constitution, which we need to work within the framework to create a solution. You are never going to convince me that gun bans are going to prevent a motived mentally unstable person from carrying out their evil. What needs to be done is to figure out a way to shorten the amount of time between when a gunman has the fire power advantage when they go to a soft target.

---

Got it - so again, this notion of "it's not the guns" is poppycock even you don't believe and your solution is to put more guns around "everywhere" to stop people after they start killing?

So…live with it until it happens and hope only 6 get killed because the police can quickly "limit the advantage" the killer has. That feels reassuring

---

So the gun laws in Chicago work great right?

So the gun laws that prevent felons from possessing guns work right?

You lefties only want to exert control and take the freedoms we have as Americans away so you can mold us into the MARXIST utopia you desire.

Blaming the gun is like blaming the pencil for you failing a test. I have quite an assortment of firearms. All safely stored. Not one single one of them have ever went into a public area and fired themselves.

I will say there have been quite a few beavers, groundhogs, deer, rabbits, hogs and ducks that have been on the receiving end of a hot piece of lead or two.

You want gun control laws because you and your party yearn for total control and single party rule because YOU feel that YOU know what is best for everyone. Condescending &*^%%$ like you are a dime a dozen in Chapel Hole. Almost certain that is where you get your talking points from.

Why don't you address the difference we have in our demographics? We have about 80% of a demographic that does nothing but claim victim status over something that ended over 150 years ago.

15% of the population is responsible for over 85% of ALL violent crime. There isn't a "racism" problem in the prison system there is a CRIME problem in the black community. And if you say that out loud you are deemed a racist.

Who has the highest teenage birth rate?

Who has the lowest two parent household rate?

Who has the lowest test scores per demographic?

Who has the lowest high school graduation rate per demographic?

Who has the highest crime rate against the same demographic? (black on black crime FYI)

I could go on and on about this. You and your lefty brethren want to bow down to the woke lefty policies to make sure you check a box as being a "progressive." This does nothing but make you look like you care.

You don't. And neither does your party. For 70+ years you have owned the black voting block. What have you done to make their lives better.

Is D.C. better?

Is Detroit better?

Is Chicago better?

Is St. Louis better?

Is Memphis better?

Is NYC better?

Is Baltimore better?

All have had lefty run governments for at least 60 years. What have you done for them?

Not a damn thing.

And again... the silence on this is deafening. Blame the gun. Blame the GOP. Blame "redneck gun culture."

As far as ban on guns.... you should look at the overall statistics on who is committing the most crimes with guns, what type of guns they are and educate yourself. Problem is you don't want to. You just want to parrot the lefty talking points because you are nothing but a spoon fed sheep.

It needs to be repeated over and over and over again...

Communist Leftist libtards advocating gun control on the pretext of them "caring about the children" is a COMPLETE FARCE. These people care NOTHING about the lives of children. They cheerlead the mass murder of ~600,000 unborn children in America every year.

They advocate gun bans and gun control because they are communist authoritarians. And they have a visceral hatred for conservatives and Christians (and white people), and they think that they are going to establish an authoritarian communist State that will implement "retribution" against white people and Christians for faux "past wrongs" and due to the mythical "oppression" that these groups have been brainwashed by their Marxist overlords into believing that they have suffered.

The communist Left is not motivated by care or concern or love for "children" or anyone else. They are motivated by spite, hatred, anger, bitterness, and the desire for "vengeance" against the groups they hate. That is the way Marxism works -- they split society into class warfare, brainwashing the "oppressed" groups to believe they have been "wronged" by the group that the Marxists want to destroy. And the Marxists, as authoritarians, have the end goal of wanting to destroy the Constitution and Bill of Rights and individual freedoms (and all of the patriotic American people who support those freedoms). So they falsely demonize conservatives, Christians, and white people, and heterosexual men -- because these groups support the Bill of Rights and God-given rights and freedoms.

GuerrillaPack said:

---

It needs to be repeated over and over and over again...

Communist Left libtards advocating gun control on the pretext of them "caring about the children" is a COMPLETE FARCE. These people care NOTHING about the lives of children. They cheerlead the mass murder of ~600,000 unborn children in America every year.

They advocate gun bans and gun control because they are communist authoritarians. And they have a visceral hatred for conservatives and Christians (and white people), and they think that they are going to implement an authoritarian communist State that will implement "retribution" against white people and Christians for faux "past wrongs" and due to the mythical "oppression" that these groups have been brainwashed by their Marxist overlords into believing that they have suffered.

---

But what if you are an "independent" that tends to vote democrat?


What does that make you? LMAO......


What if you don't support "all of the left's agenda" but vote for one or two issues? LMAO....

Not one single damn one of them can answer that question for me and I have asked several times.

Like I said before, you can call your self a turtle, a walnut, a jack in the box... but if you check the box for the "democrats" you are supporting every damn stupid ass idea they come up with whether you like it or not.

It is not an "a la carte" government whether we like it or not.

One side is against child mutilation, sex education in kindergarten taught by "non-binary" people, 100+ genders... but "follow the science" when the "science" furthers our political agendas....

Yeah.... there's a choice alright. The one that you make when no one else is in the ballot box by yourself. That defines who you are character wise.

I'm proud of mine. Can any of you lefties say the same? If so... good for you.

Most do not cheer for the murder for 600,000 murdered children. Most do respect a woman's right to choose. I would pray they choose adoption. I don't want the government making laws relating to my body. Do you? I am an advocate for making adoption easier and less expensive. I would have adopted several kids in my life if it was more affordable.

I don't want a ban on guns. I want someone somewhere to help keep the guns out of these crazy peoples hands. No one is doing **** to stop it. If I can buy a gun easier than I can get mental health treatment there is a problem. My daughter, wife and my daughters mother have had to jump through hoops to get treatment for depression, anxiety and panic attacks. And when they do get approved, the treatment is so damn high they have to choose between eating, paying the light bill or getting treatment. And it hasn't just started in this administration. It's been a ongoing issue for 20+ years.

Universal background checks. Enforceable red flag laws. Make people keep their guns safely locked away.

ETA: And I'm proud of my voting record. I've voted for just as many republicans in my life as democrats. If the GOP would put someone out there with a pulse I'd gladly vote for them. Trump isn't it. DeSantis isn't it. Biden isn't it. Show me someone please.

And until they do you will vote for the left.

• expanding the SCOTUS
• eliminating the filibuster
• adding PR and DC as states
• eliminating the Electoral College
• universal health care
• reparations
• open borders
• universal amnesty
• Federal control over state elections
• Federal control over voting districts

You know... single party rule.

MARXISM

packgrad said:

---

Quite frankly, your hyperbole is part of the problem. It's not easier to get a gun than it is to get treatment for anxiety, depression, etc. Maybe your family has a harder time with the treatment prescribed but treatment is readily available, arguably over available if you look at numbers of people on anxiety medicine.

---

Nailed it.

When faced with facts the left refuses to acknowledge that regardless of what they say it is all about having big gubmnent.

Another thing about commie Leftists and gun control. They aren't truly anti-gun. They just don't want regular people having guns.

They don't care if the FBI, IRS, and state and local police are armed to the teeth with AR-15s, fully automatic machine guns, and every other type of gun imaginable, and unlimited supplies of ammunition.

They just want the government to be the only ones with guns, and "common people" all disarmed.

So what is that? That is tyranny That is authoritarianism. That is communism.

hokiewolf said:

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Packchem91 said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Packchem91 said:

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Wufpack17 said:

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Packchem91 said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Wufpack17 said:

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I like to use common sense...

1) Mentally ill people who have violent thoughts or tendencies, who are medicated, should not have a gun. However, I am well aware that additional regulations won't stop people hell bent on mass murder. Guns are too easy to get out outside of the legal realm. There is no putting the genie back in the bottle.

2) AR-15s are rarely used in homicides.

3) There's always been more guns than people in this country, and yet mass school shootings are a very recent phenomenon. What has changed in the last 20 years? it certainly isn't the number of guns to people.
a) social media
b) politically charged narratives
c) a changing social narrative that deflects away from mental illness
d) 24 hour news cycles that glorify killers

4) By the time the police are called, it's too late. We need secure schools. That means metal detectors, no exterior locks or door handles. This idea that "kids will feel like they are in prison" is an insanely stupid and lazy argument. Kids already attend events where metal detectors are used.

4) See 4, if cops and the government can't protect my family, then I am going to own a gun and I am going to know how to use it. I'd rather have a fighting chance than no chance at all.

5) we already have examples of states and cities with strict gun control measures, and the gun homicide stats don't reflect any real impact of said strict measures.

Ultimately, there is no gun measure that can be put into existence that will stop mass shootings. However, we can do things to try and prevent mentally ill people and other lunatics from possessing a gun, legally and illegally. There's preventative measures we can implement to prevent them in schools, stores, etc. These things can be done without infringing upon law abiding citizens.

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Great post. 100% agree with all of your points, especially #4. Until you close the gap on the shooter having the weapons advantage, unfortunately you are going to have fatalities.

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So basically, "deal with it"

And i know it will be trotted out about mental health, which is clearly a huge issue. But, at least in the case of these larger shootings, we keep finding people who shouldn't have guns who have them. Over and over.

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Adapt, not "deal with it".

I believe mental health grouped with social media and 24 hour news feeding delirium, is THE issue. We have politicians on twitter wearing shirts with guns and knives stating "protect trans kids". Again, there's always been more guns than citizens, so why in the last 20-25 years have mass shootings become more common? It ain't the guns! The guns have always been there. Something DID come about 25 years ago, and I'll let you guess what that was.

But I make this comment knowing full and well that those who claim to want to make change, don't really want to have to have a discussion about the REAL cause, and if they don't want to have that discussion, then we are stuck where we are.

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Per this article, there has been a huge increase in the gun proliferation in the US. I can see the links article, but within it, there is another link to a study on gun proliferation that I can't access.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/12/14/magazine/gun-violence-children-data-statistics.html

A quote from the Times article, which to me completely refutes the absurdity of the "it isn't the gun" argument.
Most of Europe and much of Asia is people living in urban areas. India has tons of poverty. All those countries see the same social media sites and same movies we see and many have poor political leadership. But:

"What is clear is that the United States is an extreme outlier when it comes to gun fatalities among children. When researchers at the Kaiser Family Foundation recently compared a set of similarly large and wealthy nations, they found that among this group, the United States accounted for 46 percent of the child population but 97 percent of all child gun deaths."

Now, you tell me what is different here versus all the other developed nations

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We have this thing called a constitution, which we need to work within the framework to create a solution. You are never going to convince me that gun bans are going to prevent a motived mentally unstable person from carrying out their evil. What needs to be done is to figure out a way to shorten the amount of time between when a gunman has the fire power advantage when they go to a soft target.

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Got it - so again, this notion of "it's not the guns" is poppycock even you don't believe and your solution is to put more guns around "everywhere" to stop people after they start killing?

So…live with it until it happens and hope only 6 get killed because the police can quickly "limit the advantage" the killer has. That feels reassuring

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I've never seen a gun enter a school by itself and start shooting without a human being being involved.

As someone who has had a people that I know be killed in a mass school shooting, I believe creating gun free zones that make it easy for a mentally unstable person to choose a target where they know they will be unimpeded to do as much damage and destruction as possible is a large contributor to these occurrences.

So in my opinion, having trained, armed personnel in schools would serve as a pretty damn good deterrent. Maybe then a choice of that individual to seek help will be seen as an easier solution then a mass shooting.

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How many armed guards would MSU have needed?
If countries w/o the gun proliferation don't have this issue, but we do, it is dangerously disingenuous to say "it's not the guns".

Jim Martin, Pat McCory, Donnie Harrison, Reagan, Bush II, Thom Tillis, John East, Elizabeth Dole, John Edwards, Richard Burr all GOP Sen/Gov/Pres I've voted for.

Can anyone of you name one democrat you've ever voted for? Even for dog catcher?

packgrad said:

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Quite frankly, your hyperbole is part of the problem. It's not easier to get a gun than it is to get treatment for anxiety, depression, etc. Maybe your family has a harder time with the treatment prescribed but treatment is readily available, arguably over available if you look at numbers of people on anxiety medicine.

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I can go buy a guy tomorrow. Pay for it, go through the background check and within 3-5 days I'm good. In 2018 my wife waited 18 days to get the OK to get treatment for depression. 18 days. You know what got her treatment? She told the doctors she wanted to hurt herself or others. Bam! Treatment approved. And that with BCBS of NC

packgrad said:

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Quite frankly, your hyperbole is part of the problem. It's not easier to get a gun than it is to get treatment for anxiety, depression, etc. Maybe your family has a harder time with the treatment prescribed but treatment is readily available, arguably over available if you look at numbers of people on anxiety medicine.

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Yet this person whom you claim above was clearly mentally ill (we agree), was able to legally buy 7 weapons recently.
Why? That seems ok to this crowd?

Glasswolf said:

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Jim Martin, Pat McCory, Donnie Harrison, Reagan, Bush II, Thom Tillis, John East, Elizabeth Dole, John Edwards, Richard Burr all GOP Sen/Gov/Pres I've voted for.

Can anyone of you name one democrat you've ever voted for? Even for dog catcher?

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Bill Clinton twice.

Numerous D governors.

Numerous D sheriffs.

Numerous D County officials.

So there you go.

Again... when you vote D you vote for all of what I listed. You and the others on here refuse to acknowledge that.

That my friend is a FACT.

Packchem91 said:

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packgrad said:

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Quite frankly, your hyperbole is part of the problem. It's not easier to get a gun than it is to get treatment for anxiety, depression, etc. Maybe your family has a harder time with the treatment prescribed but treatment is readily available, arguably over available if you look at numbers of people on anxiety medicine.

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Yet this person whom you claim above was clearly mentally ill (we agree), was able to legally buy 7 weapons recently.
Why? That seems ok to this crowd?

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No. They did not "legally buy 7 weapons."

They purchased them because the system failed. If you want to have an honest discussion on the enforcement of laws on the books then why don't you address the fact that murder is illegal?

I am pretty sure it is illegal to murder, rob, assault, car jack, sell drugs, etc.... but the only thing the lefties want to do is take away Constitutional Rights to further their agenda.

Riddle me that.

Glasswolf said:

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packgrad said:

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Quite frankly, your hyperbole is part of the problem. It's not easier to get a gun than it is to get treatment for anxiety, depression, etc. Maybe your family has a harder time with the treatment prescribed but treatment is readily available, arguably over available if you look at numbers of people on anxiety medicine.

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I can go buy a guy tomorrow. Pay for it, go through the background check and within 3-5 days I'm good. In 2018 my wife waited 18 days to get the OK to get treatment for depression. 18 days. You know what got her treatment? She told the doctors she wanted to hurt herself or others. Bam! Treatment approved. And that with BCBS of NC

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Sorry. But that's not the whole story. I don't care to delve into your wife's medical history, but guessing your situation would better compare to purchasing a pistol in Durham. "Treatment" is readily available.

Edit to add… for clarity, I'm saying you may be able to get a gun quickly, but not get any gun. Like you can get prescribed treatment for depression quickly, but not any treatment.

BBW12OG said:

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Packchem91 said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Wufpack17 said:

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I like to use common sense...

1) Mentally ill people who have violent thoughts or tendencies, who are medicated, should not have a gun. However, I am well aware that additional regulations won't stop people hell bent on mass murder. Guns are too easy to get out outside of the legal realm. There is no putting the genie back in the bottle.

2) AR-15s are rarely used in homicides.

3) There's always been more guns than people in this country, and yet mass school shootings are a very recent phenomenon. What has changed in the last 20 years? it certainly isn't the number of guns to people.
a) social media
b) politically charged narratives
c) a changing social narrative that deflects away from mental illness
d) 24 hour news cycles that glorify killers

4) By the time the police are called, it's too late. We need secure schools. That means metal detectors, no exterior locks or door handles. This idea that "kids will feel like they are in prison" is an insanely stupid and lazy argument. Kids already attend events where metal detectors are used.

4) See 4, if cops and the government can't protect my family, then I am going to own a gun and I am going to know how to use it. I'd rather have a fighting chance than no chance at all.

5) we already have examples of states and cities with strict gun control measures, and the gun homicide stats don't reflect any real impact of said strict measures.

Ultimately, there is no gun measure that can be put into existence that will stop mass shootings. However, we can do things to try and prevent mentally ill people and other lunatics from possessing a gun, legally and illegally. There's preventative measures we can implement to prevent them in schools, stores, etc. These things can be done without infringing upon law abiding citizens.

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Great post. 100% agree with all of your points, especially #4. Until you close the gap on the shooter having the weapons advantage, unfortunately you are going to have fatalities.

---

So basically, "deal with it"

And i know it will be trotted out about mental health, which is clearly a huge issue. But, at least in the case of these larger shootings, we keep finding people who shouldn't have guns who have them. Over and over.

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When you disarm every damn criminal in your lefty run cities that are responsible for over 80% of all criminal gun crimes let me know.

Until then you can go pound sand with your passive aggressive BS. You and the rest of your party are exactly what is wrong with America today.

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Exactly

Glasswolf said:

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Most do not cheer for the murder for 600,000 murdered children. Most do respect a woman's right to choose. I would pray they choose adoption. I don't want the government making laws relating to my body. Do you? I am an advocate for making adoption easier and less expensive. I would have adopted several kids in my life if it was more affordable.

I don't want a ban on guns. I want someone somewhere to help keep the guns out of these crazy peoples hands. No one is doing **** to stop it. If I can buy a gun easier than I can get mental health treatment there is a problem. My daughter, wife and my daughters mother have had to jump through hoops to get treatment for depression, anxiety and panic attacks. And when they do get approved, the treatment is so damn high they have to choose between eating, paying the light bill or getting treatment. And it hasn't just started in this administration. It's been a ongoing issue for 20+ years.

Universal background checks. Enforceable red flag laws. Make people keep their guns safely locked away.

ETA: And I'm proud of my voting record. I've voted for just as many republicans in my life as democrats. If the GOP would put someone out there with a pulse I'd gladly vote for them. Trump isn't it. DeSantis isn't it. Biden isn't it. Show me someone please.

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Well said. I can attest to how messed up the mental health system is, it's a joke.

packgrad said:

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Glasswolf said:

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packgrad said:

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Quite frankly, your hyperbole is part of the problem. It's not easier to get a gun than it is to get treatment for anxiety, depression, etc. Maybe your family has a harder time with the treatment prescribed but treatment is readily available, arguably over available if you look at numbers of people on anxiety medicine.

---

I can go buy a guy tomorrow. Pay for it, go through the background check and within 3-5 days I'm good. In 2018 my wife waited 18 days to get the OK to get treatment for depression. 18 days. You know what got her treatment? She told the doctors she wanted to hurt herself or others. Bam! Treatment approved. And that with BCBS of NC

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Sorry. But that's not the whole story. I don't care to delve into your wife's medical history, but guessing your situation would better compare to purchasing a pistol in Durham. "Treatment" is readily available.

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Tell that to my daughter that had to wait to get treatment in Durham. They ended up locking her up in the old Durham Regional Hospital and she saw a Doctor twice in 12 days.

It cost me $2400 out of pocket for two 12 day stays at Triangle Springs. Another $8,000 for what wasn't covered by insurance. $120 a month since December 2018 for therapy plus $180 for meds since that time. I can buy a Glock G34 for less than $800.

Glasswolf said:

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packgrad said:

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Glasswolf said:

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packgrad said:

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Quite frankly, your hyperbole is part of the problem. It's not easier to get a gun than it is to get treatment for anxiety, depression, etc. Maybe your family has a harder time with the treatment prescribed but treatment is readily available, arguably over available if you look at numbers of people on anxiety medicine.

---

I can go buy a guy tomorrow. Pay for it, go through the background check and within 3-5 days I'm good. In 2018 my wife waited 18 days to get the OK to get treatment for depression. 18 days. You know what got her treatment? She told the doctors she wanted to hurt herself or others. Bam! Treatment approved. And that with BCBS of NC

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Sorry. But that's not the whole story. I don't care to delve into your wife's medical history, but guessing your situation would better compare to purchasing a pistol in Durham. "Treatment" is readily available.

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Tell that to my daughter that had to wait to get treatment in Durham. They ended up locking her up in the old Durham Regional Hospital and she saw a Doctor twice in 12 days.

It cost me $2400 out of pocket for two 12 day stays at Triangle Springs. Another $8,000 for what wasn't covered by insurance. $120 a month since December 2018 for therapy plus $180 for meds since that time. I can buy a Glock G34 for less than $800.

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I edited my post to clarify my point a bit more.

You'll get no argument from me on medical costs. I recently had an ER visit that cost me thousands that they wanted me to pay for up front before any treatment WITH me having insurance. Also waited over 10 hours. Also watched the crackheads with no insurance go ahead of me that won't pay a dime.

That doesn't mean a glock should cost more.