If you want to throw in jui jitsu into the training budget, be my guest. But I can't buy the argument that policing needs to be more violent than it is today. Killology is absolutely a thing. David Grossman is the one evangelizing it and is one of the most used police trainers in America, giving seminars across the country. There is a subculture among Police that views themselves as warriors and "Sheepdogs" protecting the "sheep" against Wolves and anarchy. It's an antagonistic mindset where every interaction could be deadly, therefore cops are more likely to engage in an aggressive and hostile manner. I'll link an article on Killology below, but if you google the term and David Grossman you can find more from other sources.packgrad said:IseWolf22 said:It floors me that people are so resistant to the notion that policing can't or shouldn't be less violent than what we have today. It implies that Americans just less morale, and more violent than every other developed nation's citizens. The media certainly sensationalizes everything, and they overplay race as a factor (class matters more). However, we have numerous opportunities for reform, from decriminalization, to training and accountability.Civilized said:packgrad said:
American police dealing with violent criminals are going to have violent interactions. Sitting in your desk chair saying how many they SHOULD have is woke virtue signaling. How many killings without cause did they have last year? Unlike you, I understand accidents happen. That is the nature of the business in high stress environments. Those people should be dealt with. Labeling the entire police force because of the rare exceptions when accidents do happen is simply trying to force a narrative.
I don't know why you dig in so hard against the notion that we can police better than we do.
POLICE don't even push back that hard against improvement. It's why you've seen an uptick in de-escalation training in recent years.
Cops in other first world countries deal with violent criminals in high stress environments too.
And yet, they do not kill nearly as many of their citizens as we do of ours. We kill more than any other first world nation. Several times more.
Should we not try to improve that situation? Can we not learn from other countries that have outcomes that are between 4x and 60x better than our police at not killing their citizens?
To start, we need MORE Police with better, longer training and generally higher pay. That said, there needs to be actual accountability as well. All these comments about lamenting about the "attacks" on police ignore the fact that historically it's been extraordinarily hard to punish bad officers. Only recently have some states started to make reforms here and it never would have happened without public pressure. Union arbitration overturns the majority of officer misconduct firings. Even if an officer is fired, as long as they aren't convicted of crime, they can move to another jurisdiction and no nationalized record exists to prevent them working again. Qualified immunity shields them from civil lawsuit for all types of misconduct, even when the judges agree that the act was egregious.
We also shouldn't be teaching officers "Killology" which creates a mindset that perpetrators are animals to be corralled instead of other people. De-escalation training is proven to work. And finally we just need less criminalization of non-violent offenses. The Drug war has failed. It's lost. Low level crap just antagonizes the relations between the poor and police, adds to overincarceration, and leads to recidivism.
Disagreed on less violent. Police need to be better trained in how to subdue people quickly. That is through aggressive, assertive violent action. We don't want police to use guns. We don't want police to use tasers. We don't want police to choke. We don't want police to use batons. We think just talking to the people resisting arrest will do it. Or letting them go and another group that Democrats are trying to phase out will go round them up.
Get rid of qualified immunity, or revamp it so it's not protective of bad cops. Fine.
I'm not sure what I feel on legalizing drugs. There was a time I supported it but now seeing the areas that have legalized drugs become vagrant cities and crime skyrocket, I'm not sure I agree with that anymore.
Nobody is teaching cops killology. That's just a liberal taking point. But quite frankly, police have the right to defend themselves. Unfortunately the left disagrees. You think we need more police, better training, and better pay. Good luck getting that with the direction the left is going.
You say the squad is the radicals on their side. Funny how their way keeps getting through. Areas where defunding the police has been pushed through has seen homicides sky rocket. If nobody supports these ideas, how are they being pushed through.
It used to be making people show papers to get into certain places was considered Hitler-esque. Now it's trying to be pushed through in all different segments of industry and the country. IDs were racist. Now, it isn't.
You say the radicals aren't supported and have no power yet somehow they keep getting their way.
I remember when "Silence is violence" and "Silence is support". Somehow that same mindset isn't used with the radical leftists.
Which cities with legal drugs do you think have skyrocketing crime? Because full decriminalization has just started being a thing recently, and is in place extremely few places. If you're looking at places like SF, their problem isn't drugs, it's a hyper liberal city council that's more interested in yelling at big tech than actually trying address the housing shortages or other problems affecting the homeless. Baltimore just saw large drops in reports of violent and property crime when they decided to stop arresting people for victimless crimes.
As far as AOC and defunding the police, this has only happened in extremely liberal cities where the left fringe controls the city council. Let them experiment with this and you'll likely see the pendulum swing the other way if/when residents are harmed. It's an extremely unpopular opinion nationally with something like 85% of people opposing, including majorities of Democrats and African Americans.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/08/warrior-cop-class-dave-grossman-killology.html