Minnesota Officer Who Shot Daunte Wright Meant to Fire Taser

62,106 Views | 659 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by hokiewolf
cowboypack02
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hokiewolf said:

BBW12OG said:

Quote:

For someone who doesn't want to be judged or the leftists to convict the officer without due process, you sure have put a lot of judgement into what a 20 year old posts on Facebook with the respect to their character.


Seriously? Wow.....Here is what I based my comments on from what I saw on his Facebook post:

  • 20 year old kid with a .45 Caliber pistol which he is not old enough to purchase/own
  • Flashing KNOWN gang sings for the area
  • Flashing "stacks of cash"
  • Drugs/paraphernalia all over his Facebook pics
  • UNEMPLOYED
  • Numerous outstanding warrants including at least ( 2 ) failure to appears
  • Video shows him arguing with the officers, resisting arrest, jumping in his car and driving away

What would your determination be about this "fine outstanding individual?"

You can dress it up however you want just to be contrarian. I get it. You have tried to debate with me before and it didn't work out so well for you.

Your comment reminds me of CNN standing in front of burning buildings while the chyron at the bottom read "peaceful protests."

Again... everyone knows who this kid was. There are thousands like him all over the country. It's embraced by many in their culture and that's all they ever strive to be. Until that changes this won't be the last story we read like this.

But at the end of the day. He was a good kid that just liked to break the law, argue with LEOs, resist arrest, fail to show up for his court dates, brandished an illegal .45 caliber pistol while flashing money, drugs etc all over social media... meanwhile having zero discernible employment history.

Damn....sounds like most of our very own childhoods right Hokie?
None of what you stated above makes me think this kid deserved to die

I don't think the kid deserved to die.....but by the same token I can give a perfect example of the type of kid as above.....

I lived in a neighborhood off of the River Ridge golf course in Raleigh from 2014-2016. During that time I had a kid just like the one mentioned above move in across the street from me and was an absolute terror. Kid shot up my house one night because he could. Fortunately it was just with a .22, otherwise it could of ended very badly for my wife and I. We were in bed asleep and one of the bullets actually went through the wall of our bedroom and got hung up in the dresser that was against the wall, but directly in front of our bed where we slept. The police couldn't do anything at the time because even through they could prove the the bullets came from the kids house, they couldn't prove it was him.

I had a friend that was a private investigator that i reached out to to find out about my neighbor, and as it turned out, even though he was just 20 at the time he had already been arrested for assaulting a woman, resisting arrest, assault with a weapon, among other things. He should of never of been out to shoot my house to start out with and it is a mystery to me as to why he was. I moved out because i didn't want to live next to someone who was willing to shoot up my house. A few weeks after i move out i get a call from the neighbor telling me to turn on the news...apparently the kid had shot someone in the neck right in the street in front of my house.

So did the kid that this thread was originally about deserve to die....nope. In saying that 99% of the time it ends up one of two ways for people who are on that path...in the ground or in jail. The cop should be held to account for what she did....but at the same time the kid tried to escape while being arrested and there are consequences for that as well. Unfortunately for the guy who was shot the consequences were extreme, and he didn't deserve to die, but his death was the consequence of his action.

Just in case you guys think i'm full of it with my story....here is an article for it: https://wfncnews.com/15363/man-charged-in-shooting-at-raleigh-home

Edit - Just because I was curious i looked the kid up again after i finished my post above. He was arrested again in 2019....http://johnstoncounty.today/johnston-county-nc-arrests-mugshots?option=com_arrest&view=arrests&p=2&lastname=&firstname=&city=&month=4&day=18&year=2019&charge=

How do you get out of jail after what he was charged with....
caryking
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packgrad said:

Barack Obama continues to be a cancer to this country. How far apart political and race relations have gone since his presidency.
Purposeful!!
caryking
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I remember years ago, Bryant Gumble complained about blacks being in prison. He said, all they want to do is build more warehouses and put Blacks in them.

Perhaps, we haven't done enough of that...

Now, I get what Gumble was saying; however, slowing down incarcerations, if we have, is certainly not an answer. These people (all races) need to be off the streets. In fact, I would consider a much more elaborate jail system, so people have a better chance of coming out being able to assimilate into society.
BBW12OG
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Here is more on the guy who was shot. More information is coming out but at this point one of the warrants he skipped out on was for choking a woman and robbing her of $800 or so dollars. Yeah.... I am the one that pre-judged this kid.


hokiewolf
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BBW12OG said:

Here is more on the guy who was shot. More information is coming out but at this point one of the warrants he skipped out on was for choking a woman and robbing her of $800 or so dollars. Yeah.... I am the one that pre-judged this kid.



What's the point?
hokiewolf
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cowboypack02 said:

hokiewolf said:

BBW12OG said:

Quote:

For someone who doesn't want to be judged or the leftists to convict the officer without due process, you sure have put a lot of judgement into what a 20 year old posts on Facebook with the respect to their character.


Seriously? Wow.....Here is what I based my comments on from what I saw on his Facebook post:

  • 20 year old kid with a .45 Caliber pistol which he is not old enough to purchase/own
  • Flashing KNOWN gang sings for the area
  • Flashing "stacks of cash"
  • Drugs/paraphernalia all over his Facebook pics
  • UNEMPLOYED
  • Numerous outstanding warrants including at least ( 2 ) failure to appears
  • Video shows him arguing with the officers, resisting arrest, jumping in his car and driving away

What would your determination be about this "fine outstanding individual?"

You can dress it up however you want just to be contrarian. I get it. You have tried to debate with me before and it didn't work out so well for you.

Your comment reminds me of CNN standing in front of burning buildings while the chyron at the bottom read "peaceful protests."

Again... everyone knows who this kid was. There are thousands like him all over the country. It's embraced by many in their culture and that's all they ever strive to be. Until that changes this won't be the last story we read like this.

But at the end of the day. He was a good kid that just liked to break the law, argue with LEOs, resist arrest, fail to show up for his court dates, brandished an illegal .45 caliber pistol while flashing money, drugs etc all over social media... meanwhile having zero discernible employment history.

Damn....sounds like most of our very own childhoods right Hokie?
None of what you stated above makes me think this kid deserved to die

I don't think the kid deserved to die.....but by the same token I can give a perfect example of the type of kid as above.....

I lived in a neighborhood off of the River Ridge golf course in Raleigh from 2014-2016. During that time I had a kid just like the one mentioned above move in across the street from me and was an absolute terror. Kid shot up my house one night because he could. Fortunately it was just with a .22, otherwise it could of ended very badly for my wife and I. We were in bed asleep and one of the bullets actually went through the wall of our bedroom and got hung up in the dresser that was against the wall, but directly in front of our bed where we slept. The police couldn't do anything at the time because even through they could prove the the bullets came from the kids house, they couldn't prove it was him.

I had a friend that was a private investigator that i reached out to to find out about my neighbor, and as it turned out, even though he was just 20 at the time he had already been arrested for assaulting a woman, resisting arrest, assault with a weapon, among other things. He should of never of been out to shoot my house to start out with and it is a mystery to me as to why he was. I moved out because i didn't want to live next to someone who was willing to shoot up my house. A few weeks after i move out i get a call from the neighbor telling me to turn on the news...apparently the kid had shot someone in the neck right in the street in front of my house.

So did the kid that this thread was originally about deserve to die....nope. In saying that 99% of the time it ends up one of two ways for people who are on that path...in the ground or in jail. The cop should be held to account for what she did....but at the same time the kid tried to escape while being arrested and there are consequences for that as well. Unfortunately for the guy who was shot the consequences were extreme, and he didn't deserve to die, but his death was the consequence of his action.

Just in case you guys think i'm full of it with my story....here is an article for it: https://wfncnews.com/15363/man-charged-in-shooting-at-raleigh-home

Edit - Just because I was curious i looked the kid up again after i finished my post above. He was arrested again in 2019....http://johnstoncounty.today/johnston-county-nc-arrests-mugshots?option=com_arrest&view=arrests&p=2&lastname=&firstname=&city=&month=4&day=18&year=2019&charge=

How do you get out of jail after what he was charged with....
Your first world experience is interesting but what I want to know is what was this guy posting on Facebook?
packgrad
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hokiewolf said:

BBW12OG said:

Here is more on the guy who was shot. More information is coming out but at this point one of the warrants he skipped out on was for choking a woman and robbing her of $800 or so dollars. Yeah.... I am the one that pre-judged this kid.



What's the point?


It says it right in the headline.
hokiewolf
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packgrad said:

hokiewolf said:

BBW12OG said:

Here is more on the guy who was shot. More information is coming out but at this point one of the warrants he skipped out on was for choking a woman and robbing her of $800 or so dollars. Yeah.... I am the one that pre-judged this kid.



What's the point?


It says it right in the headline.
I'm really trying to understand the point you two are making, I really am. Is it because he's wanted for a crime or has a past criminal history make his death more justified in your eyes? Does it make him subhuman so he deserves what he got? I don't get this and I didn't get it with George Floyd either. It doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.
packgrad
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hokiewolf said:

packgrad said:

hokiewolf said:

BBW12OG said:

Here is more on the guy who was shot. More information is coming out but at this point one of the warrants he skipped out on was for choking a woman and robbing her of $800 or so dollars. Yeah.... I am the one that pre-judged this kid.



What's the point?


It says it right in the headline.
I'm really trying to understand the point you two are making, I really am. Is it because he's wanted for a crime or has a past criminal history make his death more justified in your eyes? Does it make him subhuman so he deserves what he got? I don't get this and I didn't get it with George Floyd either. It doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.


That's interesting. I don't think you're trying at all. Has anybody said it's justified? I think it's interesting that you continue to try to put words in peoples mouths. I really do. Both didn't deserve to die. Both probably could have prevented it by not resisting arrest. Both are being made martyrs on tv. But don't bring up that they are both not good people. We have to drive an agenda about police. And how we should let people that resist arrest run free. And militarized police can then go apprehend them. Zzzzzz
hokiewolf
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packgrad said:

hokiewolf said:

packgrad said:

hokiewolf said:

BBW12OG said:

Here is more on the guy who was shot. More information is coming out but at this point one of the warrants he skipped out on was for choking a woman and robbing her of $800 or so dollars. Yeah.... I am the one that pre-judged this kid.



What's the point?


It says it right in the headline.
I'm really trying to understand the point you two are making, I really am. Is it because he's wanted for a crime or has a past criminal history make his death more justified in your eyes? Does it make him subhuman so he deserves what he got? I don't get this and I didn't get it with George Floyd either. It doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.


That's interesting. I don't think you're trying at all. Has anybody said it's justified? I think it's interesting that you continue to try to put words in peoples mouths. I really do. Both didn't deserve to die. Both probably could have prevented it by not resisting arrest. Both are being made martyrs on tv. But don't bring up that they are both not good people. We have to drive an agenda about police. And how we should let people that resist arrest run free. And militarized police can then go apprehend them. Zzzzzz
Ok, thank you I understand. But the whole resisting arrest thing / escalation by police thinking needs to change or officers need better training to deal with these situations so they don't end in a death of someone who is not armed. That is my point. To your last point I do agree with you in that the path we continue to travel as a country on this issue is a dangerous one because it allows for dangerous ideas to become mainstream. Police need better funding, not less. They need better support from the community, not less. But there needs to be a change in how policing is done because this ain't working.
packgrad
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hokiewolf said:

packgrad said:

hokiewolf said:

packgrad said:

hokiewolf said:

BBW12OG said:

Here is more on the guy who was shot. More information is coming out but at this point one of the warrants he skipped out on was for choking a woman and robbing her of $800 or so dollars. Yeah.... I am the one that pre-judged this kid.



What's the point?


It says it right in the headline.
I'm really trying to understand the point you two are making, I really am. Is it because he's wanted for a crime or has a past criminal history make his death more justified in your eyes? Does it make him subhuman so he deserves what he got? I don't get this and I didn't get it with George Floyd either. It doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.


That's interesting. I don't think you're trying at all. Has anybody said it's justified? I think it's interesting that you continue to try to put words in peoples mouths. I really do. Both didn't deserve to die. Both probably could have prevented it by not resisting arrest. Both are being made martyrs on tv. But don't bring up that they are both not good people. We have to drive an agenda about police. And how we should let people that resist arrest run free. And militarized police can then go apprehend them. Zzzzzz
Ok, thank you I understand. But the whole resisting arrest thing / escalation by police thinking needs to change or officers need better training to deal with these situations so they don't end in a death of someone who is not armed. That is my point. To your last point I do agree with you in that the path we continue to travel as a country on this issue is a dangerous one because it allows for dangerous ideas to become mainstream. Police need better funding, not less. They need better support from the community, not less. But there needs to be a change in how policing is done because this ain't working.


I think the police are being so mislabeled we won't be able to hire the people necessary to properly train them.

My training for the police would make them more violent, by hands. I think we need to train them like the military. I think they should get hand combat training several times a year, if not monthly. I think there should be no quotas. Women, unless they prove themselves physically equal, should not be accepted. I think they should have real basic training to root out those not fit enough. I think mental health screening needs improvement.

We won't ever get good enough quality people though. Because we have presidents like Obama and congresspeople like Talib that ignore the other 28000 arrests everyday. That ignore they are protected by police forces. That try to drive an agenda. The police are the problem. Not the community. Because victimhood sells. Self accountability is irrelevant.
hokiewolf
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packgrad said:

hokiewolf said:

packgrad said:

hokiewolf said:

packgrad said:

hokiewolf said:

BBW12OG said:

Here is more on the guy who was shot. More information is coming out but at this point one of the warrants he skipped out on was for choking a woman and robbing her of $800 or so dollars. Yeah.... I am the one that pre-judged this kid.



What's the point?


It says it right in the headline.
I'm really trying to understand the point you two are making, I really am. Is it because he's wanted for a crime or has a past criminal history make his death more justified in your eyes? Does it make him subhuman so he deserves what he got? I don't get this and I didn't get it with George Floyd either. It doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.


That's interesting. I don't think you're trying at all. Has anybody said it's justified? I think it's interesting that you continue to try to put words in peoples mouths. I really do. Both didn't deserve to die. Both probably could have prevented it by not resisting arrest. Both are being made martyrs on tv. But don't bring up that they are both not good people. We have to drive an agenda about police. And how we should let people that resist arrest run free. And militarized police can then go apprehend them. Zzzzzz
Ok, thank you I understand. But the whole resisting arrest thing / escalation by police thinking needs to change or officers need better training to deal with these situations so they don't end in a death of someone who is not armed. That is my point. To your last point I do agree with you in that the path we continue to travel as a country on this issue is a dangerous one because it allows for dangerous ideas to become mainstream. Police need better funding, not less. They need better support from the community, not less. But there needs to be a change in how policing is done because this ain't working.


I think the police are being so mislabeled we won't be able to hire the people necessary to properly train them.

My training for the police would make them more violent, by hands. I think we need to train them like the military. I think they should get hand combat training several times a year, if not monthly. I think there should be no quotas. Women, unless they prove themselves physically equal, should not be accepted. I think they should have real basic training to root out those not fit enough. I think mental health screening needs improvement.

We won't ever get good enough quality people though. Because we have presidents like Obama and congresspeople like Talib that ignore the other 28000 arrests everyday. That ignore they are protected by police forces. That try to drive an agenda. The police are the problem. Not the community. Because victimhood sells. Self accountability is irrelevant.
I agree with that, there should absolutely be personal accountability but at the same token there needs to be a path to rehabilitation and reacceptance into society. The stigma of the criminal record needs to be changed. I think if you do that, you'll have less repeat offenders.
WPNfamily
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Policing is near to me. My father was in policing and my brother law is currently. My father worked in the crime lab and had a very different journey through policing than my brother in law who is a patrolman. Hearing both of their perspectives is very interesting.

My father was always able to be the arm chair quarterback as he only saw the data (what was left behind) post a violent crime. Part of his job was interpreting that data and seeing if it matches the stories of witnesses and investigating officers. One thing he always said was how hard it was working a scene and testifying against someone who just made a bad decision in the moment. He would hear the character case of both sides durning lots of trials and said he often would feel bad about how a generally good person could be brought to justice via the science because they made a bad decision in a state of fight or flight. He noted this would apply to both civilians and cops. He always said in a situation where someone was shot or stabbed that no one really wins. As a kid I didn't get it. One person obviously won because he was called to a scene and there was a dead person. I get it now. No one wins when someone dies. In this case in Minnesota he said the same when he and I spoke about it today. He said if that officer yelled "taser,taser,taser" he would believe she had full intention on a less than lethal encounter. You have to be a terrible person to go out of your way to say that in an attempt shoot someone and get away with it. He notes that in the moment that makes no sense. I would agree with him on that.

My brother in law had an interesting take. He said that he once went to grab his taser and accidentally grabbed his duty weapon. For him the weight of his duty weapon caused him to realize his mistake. He said in his scenario he was not under a huge stress load and realized his mistake immediately and was able to correct it before he even had his duty weapon raised. He said that under immense pressure he is not sure he would have realized it. He was backing up another officer and he felt things were escalating quickly but not at a crisis point. His department trains that if one officer has lethal force deployed then the other should have a non lethal force deployed and vice versa. Mistakes happen. The investigation will uncover more and we will all learn more. This is a tragic scenario that appears could have been avoided all together.

I have ridden with my brother in law a few times. He is treated like a piece of trash for doing his job. It's sad to watch. One night when I was with him he was serving a warrant at an apartment. The warrant was for a dumb non violent offense. The person was arrested peacefully. In fact I was shocked how calm the situation was. Everyone was very respectful to each other. But once he got into the backseat he was spitting on us and calling all kinds of racist names. He kicked the barrier behind me so hard so many times that I was worried he would actually break it at some point. I remember watching a pretty polite person turn into an enraged violent person in about 5 seconds. I will never forget how quickly people can change and this never question why someone would fear for their lives when approaching someone with a warrant. If someone thinks policing is easy I would ask them to live a day in a police officers shoes. The job is not easy and decision making is absolute. How many of us make absolute decisions that can determine if we go home after work daily? Not many of us. People who say shoot them in the leg honestly watch too much television, are not into shooting, or don't know the limits of their own skill.

My bro inlaw hates it but he has been in so long he is stuck there. The retirement benefits are tangible and he needs the financial stability long term it offers. There are some days when good happens and he feels like he has helped someone. Most days it's arresting the same people over and over who do the same dumb thing over and over. Pretty sad how many people live their life.

Civilized
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Why do we keep the company we keep?

Why do our police kill more of our own citizens per capita than any other first world nation in the world (ETA: at a rate of 3.5x the next-most first world nation)?
packgrad
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Civilized said:



Why do we keep the company we keep?

Why do our police kill more of our own citizens per capita than any other first world nation in the world (ETA: at a rate of 3.5x the next-most first world nation)?


Probably because one political party tells criminals it's ok to fight the police, and police have to defend themselves. Why do you think it is?

Is the violent crime rate also the fault of the police?
Civilized
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packgrad said:

Civilized said:



Why do we keep the company we keep?

Why do our police kill more of our own citizens per capita than any other first world nation in the world (ETA: at a rate of 3.5x the next-most first world nation)?


Probably because one political party tells criminals it's ok to fight the police, and police have to defend themselves. Why do you think it is?

I honestly don't know.

If the rates of death by cop per encounter are similar worldwide, your assertion would require that Americans simply engage with cops at a rate that's 4x-5x higher than in other first-world countries, either because Democrats tell criminals it's cool to fight the police or for any other reason.

That seems implausible but I haven't researched it.

Maybe we should look at what first-world countries with minuscule rates of deaths by police do differently than us.
packgrad
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Civilized said:

packgrad said:

Civilized said:



Why do we keep the company we keep?

Why do our police kill more of our own citizens per capita than any other first world nation in the world (ETA: at a rate of 3.5x the next-most first world nation)?


Probably because one political party tells criminals it's ok to fight the police, and police have to defend themselves. Why do you think it is?

I honestly don't know.

If the rates of death by cop per encounter are similar worldwide, your assertion would require that Americans simply engage with cops at a rate that's 4x-5x higher than in other first-world countries, either because Democrats tell criminals it's cool to fight the police or for any other reason.

That seems implausible but I haven't researched it.

Maybe we should look at what first-world countries with minuscule rates of deaths by police do differently than us.



Which countries would you like to compare to?
packgrad
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Civilized
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packgrad said:

Civilized said:

packgrad said:

Civilized said:



Why do we keep the company we keep?

Why do our police kill more of our own citizens per capita than any other first world nation in the world (ETA: at a rate of 3.5x the next-most first world nation)?


Probably because one political party tells criminals it's ok to fight the police, and police have to defend themselves. Why do you think it is?

I honestly don't know.

If the rates of death by cop per encounter are similar worldwide, your assertion would require that Americans simply engage with cops at a rate that's 4x-5x higher than in other first-world countries, either because Democrats tell criminals it's cool to fight the police or for any other reason.

That seems implausible but I haven't researched it.

Maybe we should look at what first-world countries with minuscule rates of deaths by police do differently than us.



Which countries would you like to compare to?

Not just compare to, but learn from.

Study relatively large, capitalistic nations with some immigrant populations. Not insular. Not homogenous.

Likely not Japan or South Korea or Ireland or Denmark.

How about Canada, Australia, England, Spain, France?

No comparison is perfect but Canada is 3.5x less than ours. Australia is 20x less.

England's rate of death by cops is 60x less than ours. Sixty.
Ground_Chuck
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packgrad said:

Barack Obama continues to be a cancer to this country. How far apart political and race relations have gone since his presidency.
The right lost their mind when one of "them" got elected president.
packgrad
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Ground_Chuck said:

packgrad said:

Barack Obama continues to be a cancer to this country. How far apart political and race relations have gone since his presidency.
The right lost their mind when one of "them" got elected president.


Nah. But that's all you woke white lefties have. Weak minded folks.

It's an excellent example of the culture that was created and has flourished since under his presidency. Any disagreement with him is because of racism. Racism is the excuse for everything. Including when a police officer makes a horrible mistake. The dumbing down of this country to try to force some woke agenda is so tired.
packgrad
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Civilized said:

packgrad said:

Civilized said:

packgrad said:

Civilized said:



Why do we keep the company we keep?

Why do our police kill more of our own citizens per capita than any other first world nation in the world (ETA: at a rate of 3.5x the next-most first world nation)?


Probably because one political party tells criminals it's ok to fight the police, and police have to defend themselves. Why do you think it is?

I honestly don't know.

If the rates of death by cop per encounter are similar worldwide, your assertion would require that Americans simply engage with cops at a rate that's 4x-5x higher than in other first-world countries, either because Democrats tell criminals it's cool to fight the police or for any other reason.

That seems implausible but I haven't researched it.

Maybe we should look at what first-world countries with minuscule rates of deaths by police do differently than us.



Which countries would you like to compare to?

Not just compare to, but learn from.

Study relatively large, capitalistic nations with some immigrant populations. Not insular. Not homogenous.

Likely not Japan or South Korea or Ireland or Denmark.

How about Canada, Australia, England, Spain, France?

No comparison is perfect but Canada is 3.5x less than ours. Australia is 20x less.

England's rate of death by cops is 60x less than ours. Sixty.


US has had over 100x more police killed than the UK in the last decade. US had more police killed last year than Australia has had in the last 20 years. I wonder what the culture is towards the police in these other countries as compared to the culture here. I read an article about the entire country mourning when 4 Australian police officers were killed in a traffic stop last year. Here, people openly celebrate police fatalities.
Packchem91
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Civilized said:

packgrad said:

Civilized said:

packgrad said:

Civilized said:



Why do we keep the company we keep?

Why do our police kill more of our own citizens per capita than any other first world nation in the world (ETA: at a rate of 3.5x the next-most first world nation)?


Probably because one political party tells criminals it's ok to fight the police, and police have to defend themselves. Why do you think it is?

I honestly don't know.

If the rates of death by cop per encounter are similar worldwide, your assertion would require that Americans simply engage with cops at a rate that's 4x-5x higher than in other first-world countries, either because Democrats tell criminals it's cool to fight the police or for any other reason.

That seems implausible but I haven't researched it.

Maybe we should look at what first-world countries with minuscule rates of deaths by police do differently than us.



Which countries would you like to compare to?

Not just compare to, but learn from.

Study relatively large, capitalistic nations with some immigrant populations. Not insular. Not homogenous.

Likely not Japan or South Korea or Ireland or Denmark.

How about Canada, Australia, England, Spain, France?

No comparison is perfect but Canada is 3.5x less than ours. Australia is 20x less.

England's rate of death by cops is 60x less than ours. Sixty.
If you put up statistics of "proliferation of guns in the hands of non-law abiding citizens", I wonder how that would stack up with these first world countries. IE, do police in England, Canada, Spain, etc, face nearly the risk as they do here?

(I don't know the answer, but since we continually here how bad gun violence threatens us, then it also seems logical our police are more threatened...and that leads to a shorter fuse)?

ETA: I see packgrad responded similarly with some stats to relate to several of those countries. I think there is a lot of validity in that as a contributing factor.
Civilized
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packgrad said:

Civilized said:

packgrad said:

Civilized said:

packgrad said:

Civilized said:



Why do we keep the company we keep?

Why do our police kill more of our own citizens per capita than any other first world nation in the world (ETA: at a rate of 3.5x the next-most first world nation)?


Probably because one political party tells criminals it's ok to fight the police, and police have to defend themselves. Why do you think it is?

I honestly don't know.

If the rates of death by cop per encounter are similar worldwide, your assertion would require that Americans simply engage with cops at a rate that's 4x-5x higher than in other first-world countries, either because Democrats tell criminals it's cool to fight the police or for any other reason.

That seems implausible but I haven't researched it.

Maybe we should look at what first-world countries with minuscule rates of deaths by police do differently than us.



Which countries would you like to compare to?

Not just compare to, but learn from.

Study relatively large, capitalistic nations with some immigrant populations. Not insular. Not homogenous.

Likely not Japan or South Korea or Ireland or Denmark.

How about Canada, Australia, England, Spain, France?

No comparison is perfect but Canada is 3.5x less than ours. Australia is 20x less.

England's rate of death by cops is 60x less than ours. Sixty.


US has had over 100x more police killed than the UK in the last decade. US had more police killed last year than Australia has had in the last 20 years. I wonder what the culture is towards the police in these other countries as compared to the culture here. I read an article about the entire country mourning when 4 Australian police officers were killed in a traffic stop last year. Here, people openly celebrate police fatalities.

The US averages around fifty cops killed per year in conjunction with crime (i.e. not in accidents), with 332 million residents. The UK averages around one cop killed per year (excluding accidents) with around 55 million residents.

So the UK's rate of police death in the line of duty due to criminal acts is 8x the rate of the US, not over 100x.

American police kill Americans at 60x the rate British cops kill British residents.

American cops die in the line of duty due to felonious activity at 8x the rate of British cops.

Both those stats are alarming and it seems grossly inadequate to try to pin those rates on Democrats celebrating police confrontation and deaths, and American's bad attitudes towards cops.
Civilized
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Packchem91 said:

Civilized said:

packgrad said:

Civilized said:

packgrad said:

Civilized said:



Why do we keep the company we keep?

Why do our police kill more of our own citizens per capita than any other first world nation in the world (ETA: at a rate of 3.5x the next-most first world nation)?


Probably because one political party tells criminals it's ok to fight the police, and police have to defend themselves. Why do you think it is?

I honestly don't know.

If the rates of death by cop per encounter are similar worldwide, your assertion would require that Americans simply engage with cops at a rate that's 4x-5x higher than in other first-world countries, either because Democrats tell criminals it's cool to fight the police or for any other reason.

That seems implausible but I haven't researched it.

Maybe we should look at what first-world countries with minuscule rates of deaths by police do differently than us.



Which countries would you like to compare to?

Not just compare to, but learn from.

Study relatively large, capitalistic nations with some immigrant populations. Not insular. Not homogenous.

Likely not Japan or South Korea or Ireland or Denmark.

How about Canada, Australia, England, Spain, France?

No comparison is perfect but Canada is 3.5x less than ours. Australia is 20x less.

England's rate of death by cops is 60x less than ours. Sixty.
If you put up statistics of "proliferation of guns in the hands of non-law abiding citizens", I wonder how that would stack up with these first world countries. IE, do police in England, Canada, Spain, etc, face nearly the risk as they do here?

(I don't know the answer, but since we continually here how bad gun violence threatens us, then it also seems logical our police are more threatened...and that leads to a shorter fuse)?

ETA: I see packgrad responded similarly with some stats to relate to several of those countries. I think there is a lot of validity in that as a contributing factor.

Why limit the "proliferation of guns" stat to "non-law abiding citizens"?

Americans' rate of gun ownership is tops in the world for law-abiding citizens, and non-law-abiding. When you have more guns per capita than any other country in the world you're going to have the best-armed criminals in the world.

US rate of citizen deaths at the hands of cops:

3.5x higher than Canada
20x higher than Australia
60x higher than England

US gun ownership:

3.5x higher than Canada
8x higher than Australia
26x higher than England

Weird.

Cops ARE more at risk here. It's a literal arms race, and both American cops and American citizens are losers.

Let's dive a little deeper than blaming America's worst-in-the-developed-world police violence stats on Democrats because they allegedly celebrate cop deaths, and bad attitudes towards police.

That's a farcical explanation to a very multifaceted problem.

Also, Second Amendment guys can't turn a blind eye to the increased violence that goes along with access to guns. If you want unusually easy access to guns, step up to the plate and admit the extremely high price we all pay for that easy access, and that you're consciously opting for access to guns over reduced societal violence.

Rates of firearm carry, and policies on firearm use, by cops are dramatically different in most other first-world nations than in America.

If virtually all American police carry guns AND American police commonly respond to issues that do not require an armed respondent, dudes and gals with guns are interacting with the public more than necessary, and more people will get shot than necessary. That's common sense.

I like de-escalation training, and there's proof it works. But an equally compelling potential avenue to pursue that reduces the number of interactions between armed police and the public is utilizing unarmed community solutions officers that respond to non-violent calls and focus on incidents surrounding mental health.

Not to be glib about a serious topic, but apply the sabermetrically supported 3-point defense strategy to policing.

With 3-point defense, the best defense is really to just prevent teams from taking 3's altogether. Don't focus on making their 3's "tougher"; run them off the line. They can't make 3's that they don't take.

Cops can't shoot civilians that they don't interact with. 40% of the interactions that cops have with the public do not require an armed respondent. Dramatically reduce armed encounters between cops and the public and deaths at the hands of police will drop.

packgrad
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Civilized said:

packgrad said:

Civilized said:

packgrad said:

Civilized said:

packgrad said:

Civilized said:



Why do we keep the company we keep?

Why do our police kill more of our own citizens per capita than any other first world nation in the world (ETA: at a rate of 3.5x the next-most first world nation)?


Probably because one political party tells criminals it's ok to fight the police, and police have to defend themselves. Why do you think it is?

I honestly don't know.

If the rates of death by cop per encounter are similar worldwide, your assertion would require that Americans simply engage with cops at a rate that's 4x-5x higher than in other first-world countries, either because Democrats tell criminals it's cool to fight the police or for any other reason.

That seems implausible but I haven't researched it.

Maybe we should look at what first-world countries with minuscule rates of deaths by police do differently than us.



Which countries would you like to compare to?

Not just compare to, but learn from.

Study relatively large, capitalistic nations with some immigrant populations. Not insular. Not homogenous.

Likely not Japan or South Korea or Ireland or Denmark.

How about Canada, Australia, England, Spain, France?

No comparison is perfect but Canada is 3.5x less than ours. Australia is 20x less.

England's rate of death by cops is 60x less than ours. Sixty.


US has had over 100x more police killed than the UK in the last decade. US had more police killed last year than Australia has had in the last 20 years. I wonder what the culture is towards the police in these other countries as compared to the culture here. I read an article about the entire country mourning when 4 Australian police officers were killed in a traffic stop last year. Here, people openly celebrate police fatalities.

The US averages around fifty cops killed per year in conjunction with crime (i.e. not in accidents), with 332 million residents. The UK averages around one cop killed per year (excluding accidents) with around 55 million residents.

So the UK's rate of police death in the line of duty due to criminal acts is 8x the rate of the US, not over 100x.

American police kill Americans at 60x the rate British cops kill British residents.

American cops die in the line of duty due to felonious activity at 8x the rate of British cops.

Both those stats are alarming and it seems grossly inadequate to try to pin those rates on Democrats celebrating police confrontation and deaths, and American's bad attitudes towards cops.




I don't think that's the sole reason and think its grossly inadequate to assume there can only be one reason, but your party's lack of support for the police, and comfort in demonizing the police, is absolutely a contributing factor.
packgrad
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Second amendment supporters have never been proven more right now that Democrat leaders want to take away police.
Civilized
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Police should be respected and appreciated for the incredibly important, difficult, and dangerous job they do.

American police should not kill or become involved in nearly as many violent altercations with as many Americans as they do. When they do kill Americans, especially without cause, they're going to come under fire.

Both are true.
Civilized
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packgrad said:

Second amendment supporters have never been proven more right now that Democrat leaders want to take away police.

AOC and The Squad wanting to do something doesn't mean it's popular amongst Democratic leadership. Given how unique and extreme their views often are it normally means the opposite.

Defunding the police is very unpopular politically.
packgrad
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American police dealing with violent criminals are going to have violent interactions. Sitting in your desk chair saying how many they SHOULD have is woke virtue signaling. How many killings without cause did they have last year? Unlike you, I understand accidents happen. That is the nature of the business in high stress environments. Those people should be dealt with. Labeling the entire police force because of the rare exceptions when accidents do happen is simply trying to force a narrative.
RunsWithWolves26
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Well this thread went about how Steve probably figured it would.(joking)
packgrad
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caryking
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I don't know Civ; however, the following is what I envision when I read his post:

  • A person sitting in a winged back leather chair
  • Probably has a beard
  • Smoking a pipe
  • Pontificating every thought before he write something
  • Pretends to be an Ivy League professor

All this above allows him to exude an elitist post of superiority. Now, before anybody jumps on me, like I said above, I don't know Civ. This is only my filter when reading his post.
Civilized
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packgrad said:

American police dealing with violent criminals are going to have violent interactions. Sitting in your desk chair saying how many they SHOULD have is woke virtue signaling. How many killings without cause did they have last year? Unlike you, I understand accidents happen. That is the nature of the business in high stress environments. Those people should be dealt with. Labeling the entire police force because of the rare exceptions when accidents do happen is simply trying to force a narrative.

I don't know why you dig in so hard against the notion that we can police better than we do.

POLICE don't even push back that hard against improvement. It's why you've seen an uptick in de-escalation training in recent years.

Cops in other first world countries deal with violent criminals in high stress environments too.

And yet, they do not kill nearly as many of their citizens as we do of ours. We kill more than any other first world nation. Several times more.

Should we not try to improve that situation? Can we not learn from other countries that have outcomes that are between 4x and 60x better than our police at not killing their citizens?
Packchem91
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Civilized said:

packgrad said:

Second amendment supporters have never been proven more right now that Democrat leaders want to take away police.

AOC and The Squad wanting to do something doesn't mean it's popular amongst Democratic leadership. Given how unique and extreme their views often are it normally means the opposite.

Defunding the police is very unpopular politically.
We can also deduce it must be a popular notion among those who are charged with bringing us the news....like CNN. They were quick to mock Trump and all his goofy ideas "for being unique and extreme"....heck, even now they still have headlines mocking some of his supporters belief in teh election fraud.
But I don't see any of their "analysis" or "opinion" pieces calling out how unpopular and dangerous what The Squad is saying really is.

Isn't this normalizing those views? Add in guys who have major cache and a platform, like Lebron....and its much more prevalent than you are wanting it to appear.
 
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