Minnesota Officer Who Shot Daunte Wright Meant to Fire Taser

62,107 Views | 659 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by hokiewolf
cowboypack02
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Packchem91 said:

^I fully agree with the idea of respecting the police and using all the right buzzwords you use. But.....I also didn't grow up being exposed to some jackass power hungry guys who roughed up my dad, or my brother, or my friends just because he could, like many who grow up in predominantly poor black, crime-ridden neighborhoods do.
How many times does a person have to see something like that, before a big distrust of the police starts?

I think that is one of the major things we are dealing with here. A guy who has already been arrested 4-5 times, perhaps roughed up, maybe outstanding warrants...probably isn't going to respond the same way as you or i

And yes....some of those stories of being mistreated could be exaggerated, mis-remembered, could have extenuating circumstances, etc.... but I think most people, given all we see, KNOW, that sometimes cops go way too far. And that doesn't mean just when someone ends up shot. If you get accosted and slammed to the ground, or thrown against a wall or punched, or ____ because you say something back....those things build a layer of distrust.

Now...as for your comments about the media's role -- 100% agree. "It's just business", and talking about some methhead white guy in a beater getting shot doesn't sell like a young black man (regardless of his background), getting shot.

Talking to a couple of my employees who are black, and some folks in my church who are -- all of whom I would trust, and the stories they have told about interactions....lets just say I get why they don't like the police.
I believe this completely.

I'll tell you something that you may not believe - I have had my fair share of negative interactions with the police as well. I live in a small town and when you like to run your mouth, such as I did, it tends to cause the police to become more interested in you. In saying that I was never charged with anything outside of a speeding ticket, but it got to the point where i was getting pulled over on a regular basis and pulled out of my vehicle. It was absolute harassment and you'll never convince me otherwise. I'm not going to say that it was racist, even though the majority of the cops that pulled me over were black.

One of the interactions that i won't ever forget will be getting pulled out of the car, handcuffed, and sat on the sidewalk with one cop watching me while another two ripped everything out of my car during a search. After about 25-30 minutes on the sidewalk a state trooper pulled up to assist and then all of a sudden they were done, didn't find anything, and told me to have a nice day after taking the handcuffs off.

I told my story above to finish my point...I was a loudmouth kid and rubbed some cop the wrong way. I shouldn't or ran my mouth off to the cop and the cops shouldn't of harassed me like they did. We are both wrong here. I wonder if its the same with the black population. Areas of higher black population tend to have higher crime so the cops are there more often. This means that it increases the chances of having a negative interaction with the police compared to other areas. If the cops were focused more on areas that were predominately white would we here the same stories out of white communities instead? I would argue that the answer to that would be yes
Civilized
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cowboypack02 said:

Packchem91 said:

^I fully agree with the idea of respecting the police and using all the right buzzwords you use. But.....I also didn't grow up being exposed to some jackass power hungry guys who roughed up my dad, or my brother, or my friends just because he could, like many who grow up in predominantly poor black, crime-ridden neighborhoods do.
How many times does a person have to see something like that, before a big distrust of the police starts?

I think that is one of the major things we are dealing with here. A guy who has already been arrested 4-5 times, perhaps roughed up, maybe outstanding warrants...probably isn't going to respond the same way as you or i

And yes....some of those stories of being mistreated could be exaggerated, mis-remembered, could have extenuating circumstances, etc.... but I think most people, given all we see, KNOW, that sometimes cops go way too far. And that doesn't mean just when someone ends up shot. If you get accosted and slammed to the ground, or thrown against a wall or punched, or ____ because you say something back....those things build a layer of distrust.

Now...as for your comments about the media's role -- 100% agree. "It's just business", and talking about some methhead white guy in a beater getting shot doesn't sell like a young black man (regardless of his background), getting shot.

Talking to a couple of my employees who are black, and some folks in my church who are -- all of whom I would trust, and the stories they have told about interactions....lets just say I get why they don't like the police.
I believe this completely.

I'll tell you something that you may not believe - I have had my fair share of negative interactions with the police as well. I live in a small town and when you like to run your mouth, such as I did, it tends to cause the police to become more interested in you. In saying that I was never charged with anything outside of a speeding ticket, but it got to the point where i was getting pulled over on a regular basis and pulled out of my vehicle. It was absolute harassment and you'll never convince me otherwise. I'm not going to say that it was racist, even though the majority of the cops that pulled me over were black.

One of the interactions that i won't ever forget will be getting pulled out of the car, handcuffed, and sat on the sidewalk with one cop watching me while another two ripped everything out of my car during a search. After about 25-30 minutes on the sidewalk a state trooper pulled up to assist and then all of a sudden they were done, didn't find anything, and told me to have a nice day after taking the handcuffs off.

I told my story above to finish my point...I was a loudmouth kid and rubbed some cop the wrong way. I shouldn't or ran my mouth off to the cop and the cops shouldn't of harassed me like they did. We are both wrong here. I wonder if its the same with the black population. Areas of higher black population tend to have higher crime so the cops are there more often. This means that it increases the chances of having a negative interaction with the police compared to other areas. If the cops were focused more on areas that were predominately white would we here the same stories out of white communities instead? I would argue that the answer to that would be yes
It's a great question Cowboy. There would definitely be more stories of overreach/violence by police towards white citizens simply because there would be more interactions.

Out of curiosity, did you consent to the search of your car? I've always wondered how I'd handle that situation when the rubber hit the road if a cop ever asked to search my car. You always read/hear that you should always refuse a request to search. Nothing good can come of it for you. But, if you've got nothing to hide you may be tempted to say yes just to be cooperative.

The volume of police violence towards all citizens is a problem, irrespective of race or ethnicity. The black community has another problem though, and that's that a higher percentage of their stops results in searches (protracted engagement with armed cops) and a higher percentage of those interactions result in violence relative to white Americans. Blacks get stopped much more per capita AND a higher percentage of those stops ends in violence.

Black Americans face a risk of being killed by cops that's 2.5x that of white Americans per capita due to both more stops per capita and a higher percentage of those stops resulting in searches or protracted engagements.
BBW12OG
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Blacks make up 13% of the population. They account for 55% of all murders. 89% of those murders are black on black crime.

But yet we are "judged" as white people by saying that we over criminalize the black community? Well...statistics and numbers don't lie.

The self accountability word has been thrown around by a few on here and I will be honest until the black community owns the fact that they have a serious accountability problem and quit living by the mantra "snitches get stitches" this problem isn't going away.

You only hear about the mistakes or the bad cops when they are confronting black suspects. You never hear about how many cops are assaulted, shot, killed etc... by black perpetrators. You know why? It doesn't fit the left's narrative to further divide this country.

Here is a link to statista.com

https://www.statista.com/statistics/251877/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-race-ethnicity-and-gender/

Feel free to type any any statistic you want to try and refute my point. I'm not doing research for the lefties anymore.

We have some bad cops. Moreover we have a segment of a demographic that needs an overall cultural change. The minute something goes bad it's like a blue light sale at K-Mart. Time to bust windows, steal, loot and burn things to the ground before knowing the facts.

These "peaceful protests," as the media calls them, are nothing but an excuse for mostly out of work grifters to rob, steal and destroy property. With these left wing mayors and DAs refusing to charge and prosecute them where is the incentive to stop?

This is exactly what the left wants and encourages. As long as the black community is beholden to the left and their radical policies they will always have their votes.

Good job lefties....good job.
Civilized
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Should we do what we reasonably can to reduce the number of violent interactions between citizens and cops in this country that result in injury or death to citizens and cops?
caryking
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Civilized said:

Should we do what we reasonably can to reduce the number of violent interactions between citizens and cops in this country that result in injury or death to citizens and cops?
Yes!! Defund the Police!!! We will have "Zero" interactions!!!
cowboypack02
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Civilized said:

cowboypack02 said:

Packchem91 said:

^I fully agree with the idea of respecting the police and using all the right buzzwords you use. But.....I also didn't grow up being exposed to some jackass power hungry guys who roughed up my dad, or my brother, or my friends just because he could, like many who grow up in predominantly poor black, crime-ridden neighborhoods do.
How many times does a person have to see something like that, before a big distrust of the police starts?

I think that is one of the major things we are dealing with here. A guy who has already been arrested 4-5 times, perhaps roughed up, maybe outstanding warrants...probably isn't going to respond the same way as you or i

And yes....some of those stories of being mistreated could be exaggerated, mis-remembered, could have extenuating circumstances, etc.... but I think most people, given all we see, KNOW, that sometimes cops go way too far. And that doesn't mean just when someone ends up shot. If you get accosted and slammed to the ground, or thrown against a wall or punched, or ____ because you say something back....those things build a layer of distrust.

Now...as for your comments about the media's role -- 100% agree. "It's just business", and talking about some methhead white guy in a beater getting shot doesn't sell like a young black man (regardless of his background), getting shot.

Talking to a couple of my employees who are black, and some folks in my church who are -- all of whom I would trust, and the stories they have told about interactions....lets just say I get why they don't like the police.
I believe this completely.

I'll tell you something that you may not believe - I have had my fair share of negative interactions with the police as well. I live in a small town and when you like to run your mouth, such as I did, it tends to cause the police to become more interested in you. In saying that I was never charged with anything outside of a speeding ticket, but it got to the point where i was getting pulled over on a regular basis and pulled out of my vehicle. It was absolute harassment and you'll never convince me otherwise. I'm not going to say that it was racist, even though the majority of the cops that pulled me over were black.

One of the interactions that i won't ever forget will be getting pulled out of the car, handcuffed, and sat on the sidewalk with one cop watching me while another two ripped everything out of my car during a search. After about 25-30 minutes on the sidewalk a state trooper pulled up to assist and then all of a sudden they were done, didn't find anything, and told me to have a nice day after taking the handcuffs off.

I told my story above to finish my point...I was a loudmouth kid and rubbed some cop the wrong way. I shouldn't or ran my mouth off to the cop and the cops shouldn't of harassed me like they did. We are both wrong here. I wonder if its the same with the black population. Areas of higher black population tend to have higher crime so the cops are there more often. This means that it increases the chances of having a negative interaction with the police compared to other areas. If the cops were focused more on areas that were predominately white would we here the same stories out of white communities instead? I would argue that the answer to that would be yes
It's a great question Cowboy. There would definitely be more stories of overreach/violence by police towards white citizens simply because there would be more interactions.

Out of curiosity, did you consent to the search of your car? I've always wondered how I'd handle that situation when the rubber hit the road if a cop ever asked to search my car. You always read/hear that you should always refuse a request to search. Nothing good can come of it for you. But, if you've got nothing to hide you may be tempted to say yes just to be cooperative.

The volume of police violence towards all citizens is a problem, irrespective of race or ethnicity. The black community has another problem though, and that's that a higher percentage of their stops results in searches (protracted engagement with armed cops) and a higher percentage of those interactions result in violence relative to white Americans. Blacks get stopped much more per capita AND a higher percentage of those stops ends in violence.

Black Americans face a risk of being killed by cops that's 2.5x that of white Americans per capita due to both more stops per capita and a higher percentage of those stops resulting in searches or protracted engagements.
I didn't consent to the car search, but i was also 19-20 and didn't know any better. If it happened now I would flat out refuse, just like i would if they wanted to search my house.

I think that the the issues that you see in the black community with policing stem from the black community for the most part. Even through african americans are only 13% of the population, they are responsible for 52% of all violent crimes in this country. That is without the police interactions. I would argue that part of the reason that there are more violent interactions between police and african americans is because that particular segment of the population is more violent in general.

I do agree that the police force as a whole needs to work to make sure that the interactions between themselves and the general population go as best as possible. But I would also make the statement that the general population is definitely not without their faults here either. Unfortunately people only seem to want to speak about one part of the issue, and then call anyone who points out the other side of it racist. Lets take the fellow that the woman shot by accident instead of tasing. She made a mistake and it cost the fellow his life. That should be acknowledged and dealt with. By the same token the guy being put in handcuffs was already out on a warrant for a violent act and resisted the police to the point of trying to fight away from the handcuffs. That needs to be acknowledged as well...but its not. We are never going to be able to solve any issue until we address both sides of it and both sides acknowledge that they both could do things better and work towards correcting it.
TheStorm
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Civilized said:

Should we do what we reasonably can to reduce the number of violent interactions between citizens and cops in this country that result in injury or death to citizens and cops?
Get rid of all laws and let people do whatever they want. Won't need any government (local, state or federal) either.

That ought to work great.
BBW12OG
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Civilized said:

Should we do what we reasonably can to reduce the number of violent interactions between citizens and cops in this country that result in injury or death to citizens and cops?
What would you suggest?

Disarming the police?

Disarming the public?

Sending in social workers to diffuse situations? You go first. Go disarm a guy who is tripping on PCP, bath salts or whatever drug cocktail the liberal run city has made legal that he is in. Go ahead. Show us how your left wing nut job ideas are making America a better place to live in. Watch out when you are walking. There are piles of human **** every 10 feet.

You think the police, minority officers included, are taught to hunt down black people and kill them?

When you have a demographic that routinely refuses to cooperate with the police even when they are aware of who committed a crime and where they are the distrust goes both ways.

The police are fighting a losing battle when 95% of the media portray them in a negative light. The SOCIALIST PARTY feeds this narrative and they control most all of the news outlets and that was proven by the latest Project Veritas expose' on the joke of a network CNN.

When the media aligns themselves with the far left, and that's all the SOCIALIST PARTY is anymore yourself included, there isn't going to be any way to put the toothpaste back in the tube.

All we can hope for is for our officers to make as good of decisions as possible with minimal collateral damage. This is what the left fuels, wants and their media mouthpieces do the very same.

Sad state this country is in and you can look no further than to the left to blame.
cowboypack02
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TheStorm said:

Civilized said:

Should we do what we reasonably can to reduce the number of violent interactions between citizens and cops in this country that result in injury or death to citizens and cops?
Get rid of all laws and let people do whatever they want. Won't need any government (local, state or federal) either.

That ought to work great.
LOL.....i'd end up being a freaking warlord....or at least trying to be. And I would still have a police force in my little fiefdom
packgrad
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Get rid of violent criminals. That will reduce violent interactions.

Or we can say "use deescalation", and tout it as a proven method for lowering the amount of issues at hand. We need to ignore the fact there are ZERO studies that show it is a proven method in policing. We also need to ignore that there is no data on how it affects officer safety, which should be a primary concern.

A big takeaway from this conversation is that its not about what we do, its how we phrase it. There is no standard for what is "police deescalation". It means something different everywhere. A virtual academy offers these suggestions for police deescalation:

https://www.virtualacademy.com/blog/police-officer-training-8-strategies-for-de-escalating-a-situation

  • Listen respectfully. Don't argue or interrupt. Many times angry people calm down when they feel they've been listened to and taken seriously. Make sure that each person in the conflict has a chance to talk.
  • Don't allow an audience to gather. If two people are having an argument, isolate them from friends or family members. Removing a potential audience sometimes eliminates the need to show off with angry and aggressive behavior.
  • Set an example. Use courteous, professional language yourself to convey the message that talk must be calm and respectful.
  • Be aware of body language. Don't point or jab a finger at a citizen. Don't loom over anyone.
  • Maintain control. Cut off offensive speech (cursing, yelling, insults) by asking the person to restate the point in acceptable language.
  • Don't publicly humiliate anyoneespecially when others are watching. If you have to perform a patdown or ask potentially embarrassing questions, take the person aside.
  • Remember that the only person whose behavior and thinking you can absolutely control is you. Don't waste time and energy trying to convince a citizen that he's wrong and you're right. Do what you need to do (such as writing a citation or making an arrest) without becoming defensive.
  • Remember that "broken record" is a useful way to achieve two goalsconveying the message that you're in charge while keeping the lid on a potential conflict. "Broken record" means repeating a message as many times as needed: "I'm writing a citation. You'll have an opportunity to state your case in court." If a citizen argues, you refuse to take the bait. You simply repeat your message until the citation is written and your job is done.


I think if you talk to a police officer, they will tell you these are standard training items before the buzzword :police deescalation" was coined. But now, when things go wrong, we say they are not trained in "police deescalation".

Other suggestions of police deescalation are allowing subjects to flee if they resist arrest. From a 2018 wral article, In Durham, they have this "Durham police use that same violent felony threshold when deciding whether to chase, but officers must also think the nature of suspected crime poses a threat to the public or other officers. Chases are not allowed for non-violent crimes, impaired driving or if the driver is identified and can be arrested at a later date. Forcible stops are allowed in "extraordinary circumstances," according to policy, but stationary roadblocks are the preferred method to bring a chase to a halt.

The Highway Patrol differs "The Highway Patrol's chase policy is among the most aggressive in the state. Troopers have a wide range tools to stop chases, from PIT maneuvers to roadblocks to rolling roadblocks and the use of spiked strips called "stop sticks." The agency also has a more aggressive policy on who can be chased, dividing drivers into three categories of violators depending on the threat they pose to others:
  • Vehicles with technical violations, like equipment problems, are non-hazardous violators.
  • Those who commit a single moving violation but return to lawful driving are an intermediate priority.
  • Speeders, impaired drivers, aggressive drivers and those believed to have committed violent crimes are classified as an immediate hazard and should be apprehended as quickly as possible".


"Despite some calls to simply not chase and try to catch someone at a later date, Scott said that's not an option.
"I'd say, in a perfect world, that would be great, but there are some people doing some very bad things out there," he said, adding that officers would have a tough time proving in court who was driving the vehicle unless they clearly see someone in the driver's seat.
"Chasing is very dangerous. I know that firsthand. I've been in it. I've been involved in it all my life, and I've been in quite a few chases," Harrison said, adding there's inherent danger in everything law enfocement officers do.
"Some people may say, 'You're taking a chance. You could kill somebody.' True," he said. "We could kill somebody with a firearm. About everything we do in this business, there's a lot of liability behind it."
But he said he feels that risk is worth it, and chasing someone sends a message: "If they know we're going to chase them if they do something wrong, I feel like it's a deterrent."

Some police deescalation strategies call for the police to be like a "shepherd" for the public. Grossman's call for the police to be like "sheepdogs" though is frowned upon.

It's all in the wording.

There are certainly areas for improvement. I don't think they are as big as they are made out to be though.
Civilized
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BBW12OG said:

Civilized said:

Should we do what we reasonably can to reduce the number of violent interactions between citizens and cops in this country that result in injury or death to citizens and cops?
What would you suggest?

Disarming the police?

Disarming the public?

Sending in social workers to diffuse situations? You go first. Go disarm a guy who is tripping on PCP, bath salts or whatever drug cocktail the liberal run city has made legal that he is in. Go ahead. Show us how your left wing nut job ideas are making America a better place to live in. Watch out when you are walking. There are piles of human **** every 10 feet.

You think the police, minority officers included, are taught to hunt down black people and kill them?

When you have a demographic that routinely refuses to cooperate with the police even when they are aware of who committed a crime and where they are the distrust goes both ways.

The police are fighting a losing battle when 95% of the media portray them in a negative light. The SOCIALIST PARTY feeds this narrative and they control most all of the news outlets and that was proven by the latest Project Veritas expose' on the joke of a network CNN.

When the media aligns themselves with the far left, and that's all the SOCIALIST PARTY is anymore yourself included, there isn't going to be any way to put the toothpaste back in the tube.

All we can hope for is for our officers to make as good of decisions as possible with minimal collateral damage. This is what the left fuels, wants and their media mouthpieces do the very same.

Sad state this country is in and you can look no further than to the left to blame.
Stop acting like there aren't reasonable steps that can be taken.

Support a federal ban on police chokeholds
Decriminalize petty drug offenses
End racial profiling
Mandate police body camera use
End or dramatically curtail qualified immunity
Roll out de-escalation training more broadly
Explore reducing armed interactions significantly by sending unarmed Community Resource officers to administrative and non-violent, low-risk calls

Civilized
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packgrad said:

Get rid of violent criminals. That will reduce violent interactions.

Or we can say "use deescalation", and tout it as a proven method for lowering the amount of issues at hand. We need to ignore the fact there are ZERO studies that show it is a proven method in policing. We also need to ignore that there is no data on how it affects officer safety, which should be a primary concern.



No, you're exactly right. Less criminal activity, fewer interactions.

Further justice, opportunity, quality of life, education, health etc. in all communities and that will definitely reduce the number of violent criminals and violent interactions with cops.

That's very legitimate just a lot more complicated and harder to legislate than more finite solutions that can be effected in policing.

Regarding de-escalation training, as you're well aware, lack of studies that prove efficacy is not the same thing as proving a lack of efficacy.

"In the Bay Area, the San Francisco Police Department created a training program that resulted in a 24 percent decrease in use of force in 2019 compared with 2018."

"The results, criminologists say, have been successful. A recent examination of PERF's training for the Louisville Metro Police Department showed 28 percent fewer use-of-force incidents by officers, 26 percent fewer injuries to citizens, and 36 percent fewer injuries to officers. After officers were trained, the study surveyed them between January 2019 and February 2020."

"2020 was tough for the Newark Police Department. But despite all of that, top brass report an impressive statistic to round out 2020. Ambrose says not one police officer fired a weapon in 2020. He credits a de-escalation program implemented in Newark two years go."

A white police officer fresh from de-escalation training, a troubled black woman with a gun, and a crowd with cellphones ready to record

By all means, study it. But there's circumstantial evidence out there that it makes citizens and officers alike safer.
caryking
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Civilized said:

BBW12OG said:

Civilized said:

Should we do what we reasonably can to reduce the number of violent interactions between citizens and cops in this country that result in injury or death to citizens and cops?
What would you suggest?

Disarming the police?

Disarming the public?

Sending in social workers to diffuse situations? You go first. Go disarm a guy who is tripping on PCP, bath salts or whatever drug cocktail the liberal run city has made legal that he is in. Go ahead. Show us how your left wing nut job ideas are making America a better place to live in. Watch out when you are walking. There are piles of human **** every 10 feet.

You think the police, minority officers included, are taught to hunt down black people and kill them?

When you have a demographic that routinely refuses to cooperate with the police even when they are aware of who committed a crime and where they are the distrust goes both ways.

The police are fighting a losing battle when 95% of the media portray them in a negative light. The SOCIALIST PARTY feeds this narrative and they control most all of the news outlets and that was proven by the latest Project Veritas expose' on the joke of a network CNN.

When the media aligns themselves with the far left, and that's all the SOCIALIST PARTY is anymore yourself included, there isn't going to be any way to put the toothpaste back in the tube.

All we can hope for is for our officers to make as good of decisions as possible with minimal collateral damage. This is what the left fuels, wants and their media mouthpieces do the very same.

Sad state this country is in and you can look no further than to the left to blame.
Stop acting like there aren't reasonable steps that can be taken.

Support a federal ban on police chokeholds
Decriminalize petty drug offenses
End racial profiling
Mandate police body camera use
End or dramatically curtail qualified immunity
Roll out de-escalation training more broadly
Explore reducing armed interactions significantly by sending unarmed Community Resource officers to administrative and non-violent, low-risk calls


Support a federal ban on police chokeholds - No Federal Mandates!!
Decriminalize petty drug offenses - Too broad, give more specifics
End racial profiling - That's a joke! Do you really think people are trained in Racial Profiling?
Mandate police body camera use - No Federal Mandates!!!
End or dramatically curtail qualified immunity - Too broad, give more specifics
Roll out de-escalation training more broadly - No Federal Mandates!!!!
Explore reducing armed interactions significantly by sending unarmed Community Resource officers to administrative and non-violent, low-risk calls - Perhaps you should sign up for this job. Bet you will want a gun pretty fast!


One more thing - No Federal Mandates!!!!!
packgrad
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A ban on police chokeholds is ridiculous IMO. We are legitimately trying to make their jobs more dangerous with arbitrary rules like this. I would be fine with a ban on police chokeholds for people not resisting arrest though.
caryking
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Civ, this is a very good read...

https://torrancestephensphd.substack.com/p/protest-and-demonstrations-are-not

Civilized
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packgrad said:

A ban on police chokeholds is ridiculous IMO. We are legitimately trying to make their jobs more dangerous with arbitrary rules like this. I would be fine with a ban on police chokeholds for people not resisting arrest though.

A qualified ban is where some departments have landed, i.e. a ban unless the officer believes his or her life to be in danger.

This eliminates officer using a potentially lethal technique out of simple convenience; in less-violent situations; or out of malice.

LA, NY, Chicago, Philly, Houston and some others have banned chokeholds in recent years.

Even where bans exist they are unevenly enforced but it's widely believed a national ban (or qualified ban) would have more teeth and be more of a deterrent.

Chokeholds are highly effective but can be deadly and most departments don't or can't adequately train their officers in their use. Inadequate training leads to them being used too often and with improper techniques, resulting in unnecessary loss of life.
packgrad
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I am fine with the qualified ban, but I would extend it to fear for the lives of fellow officers as well. As an example if they were pulling somebody off of a fellow officer whose life was in danger.
Civilized
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pineknollshoresking said:

Civ, this is a very good read...

https://torrancestephensphd.substack.com/p/protest-and-demonstrations-are-not



No offense Cary but there's nothing of substance in there.

If I were to summarize it would be "Riots are bad. Lots of white and black people get killed by the cops so racism can't play a part in cop-inflicted violence. And besides, only a small fraction of encounters end with somebody dying so cops killing Americans isn't a big deal anyway."



Civilized
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packgrad said:

I am fine with the qualified ban, but I would extend it to fear for the lives of fellow officers as well. As an example if they were pulling somebody off of a fellow officer whose life was in danger.

Yeah I think that's very reasonable.
BBW12OG
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Support a federal ban on police chokeholds: In a perfect world where suspects listen and follow instructions these wouldn't be needed. We aren't in a perfect world. Would you prefer the use of a taser? You act like the police are dealing with a Sunday School teacher when they use choke holds. Here's an idea. Don't put yourself in a position for the police to have to use a choke hold. I know you lefties are always playing the victim card and rarely subscribe to self accountability because that would mean you would actually have to take responsibility rather than putting it off on someone else.


Decriminalize petty drug offenses: Most states, if not all, rarely pursue petty marijuana offenses. It is an excuse to search vehicles and where it's illegal it should be. Again, how hard is it to be a law abiding citizen? Isn't that part of the Social Construct? You break the law you should pay the penalties. Your legalization of drugs has worked wonders for your lefty run cities of Portland, Seattle and San Francisco. You lefties are really blind to reality at every turn.


End racial profiling: Good luck with that. 13% of the population commits 55% of ALL murders. You don't think that fits a profile? Hell the FBI has an entire division dedicated to profile criminals. Not only that, most LEOs take classes on profiling. It isn't an exact science but if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck it just might be a duck. Again, you lefties spout off nonsense like LEOs are out hunting down black people on a daily basis. They are in "high crime" areas for a reason. That's where the crimes are being committed. You know where those areas are and who lives there? Yeah.... riddle me that comrade.


Mandate police body camera use: Agree. That way when your state run media runs BS stories the LEOs will have video evidence to back up their officers. If the officers are in the wrong give them due process and let the justice system work. Something you lefties are trying to destroy but for now it works.


End or dramatically curtail qualified immunity: Funny how you lefties want this for LEOs but are very selective with that term when it comes to everything else in the free world. LEOs deserve a certain amount of freedom to execute their duties. You know how many false claims are filed against officers each day by people arrested? Look it up. It's amazing people are that stupid. And no I'm not posting a link specifically because I am addressing you and you have to be the laziest poster here. You never do your own research. Now you can dig if you want the answer.


Roll out de-escalation training more broadly: You and your SOCIALIST PARTY have been screaming "defund the police" for years. Now you want to ask for more training. The hypocrisy from you and the lefties never ceases to amaze me. Not sure why it doesn't yet considering the only thing you and your party stands for is power, more power and hanging onto that power at all costs country be damned. Training is awesome and I support that. I also support more tactical training as well as the lefty sanctuary cities have become overrun with militarized gangs with weapons that rival our armed forces. And if they are arrested, they are released back into the community instead of DHS/CBP. Way to go lefties...you created this mess and now you want to walk away from it like you are innocent. HYPOCRITES.


Explore reducing armed interactions significantly by sending unarmed Community Resource officers to administrative and non-violent, low-risk calls: Now this has to be the absolute stupidest comment I have read in the last hour or so. Give me an example of a non-violent, low-risk call. Cat in a tree? Flat tire? Keys locked in the car? You self owned on that comment. Typical. Not every call starts out as a violent stand off but there is always a chance that one will. You send in someone like that you are introducing a potential hostage, victim or worse, a dead body. Police are and have always been needed. The extent to when and how they are needed is always unknown until the situation plays itself out.

You and your SOCIALIST PARTY's idea of a Utopia is laughable. If your party's ideas have worked so well explain Cuba. That's exactly what you and your ilk are pushing. You have sitting members of congress calling for the end of police, incarcerations and basically all law enforcement. You have another member claiming that the police are murderers and are stalking innocent black people.

When you and your party finally realize just how far left you are hopefully you will have lost the House, Senate and Presidency and the GOP can go scorched Earth and make sure that none of you people ever see power again. One can only hope.

Now take that information and see if you can digest it .
caryking
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BBW12OG said:



End racial profiling: Good luck with that. 13% of the population commits 55% of ALL murders. You don't think that fits a profile? Hell the FBI has an entire division dedicated to profile criminals. Not only that, most LEOs take classes on profiling. It isn't an exact science but if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck it just might be a duck. Again, you lefties spout off nonsense like LEOs are out hunting down black people on a daily basis. They are in "high crime" areas for a reason. That's where the crimes are being committed. You know where those areas are and who lives there? Yeah.... riddle me that comrade.

This is such a good point. Actually, every time any of us do dang near anything, we are being profiled.

Turn on your TV - profiled
Buy an Amazon - profiled
Turn on your phone - profiled
Go to a store - profiled
Get a loan - profiled
I can add more...
IseWolf22
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packgrad said:

I am fine with the qualified ban, but I would extend it to fear for the lives of fellow officers as well. As an example if they were pulling somebody off of a fellow officer whose life was in danger.


That is reasonable
Mormad
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A routine traffic stop is routine and non-violent. Right up until the officer is shot in the face.

Serious question because i haven't looked: are black police officers around the country now reaching out or speaking out about this matter, one way or the other? Certainly they would have strong feelings about these arguments? I only know one, and i realize how he feels, but he's only one guy.
BBW12OG
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Several friends of several races are cops. They are indifferent to the race of the officers or the people affected. A bad cop is a bad cop. Accidents happen. It's a job. Nothing personal for 99% of the officers.

Their biggest beef is how the media glamorizes the rioters, looters, vandals by interviewing them on live TV. Then in the districts, cities, towns where it happens the DA rarely brings charges against any of the criminals. The media fans the flames to glamorize violence. That's their opinions.

And the you know who benefits from this? The SOCIALIST PARTY.
TheStorm
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Saw where Maxine Waters is up in Minnesota now even further stoking the fire...
packgrad
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TheStorm said:

Saw where Maxine Waters is up in Minnesota now even further stoking the fire...


Democrats.


BBW12OG
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What could I have posted that warranted an edit? Strange days on this here board...wonder who did that....LMAO.....
caryking
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BBW12OG said:

What could I have posted that warranted an edit? Strange days on this here board...wonder who did that....LMAO.....
what changed in your post?
BBW12OG
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I didn't read through it again. I just saw where it has "staff edited." Nothing was insulting, trolling or made up. Just more censorship from the folks that subscribe to group think. Pretty sad if you ask me.
Glasswolf
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The word comrade was edited out
BBW12OG
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Wow.... seems appropriate don't you think? LMAO.... what a joke.
caryking
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Glasswolf said:

The word comrade was edited out
Glass, in a seriousness... what's wrong with comrade?
Mormad
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I gotta find more stuff to be offended about
tuffy1006
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pineknollshoresking said:

Glasswolf said:

The word comrade was edited out
Glass, in a seriousness... what's wrong with comrade?
glasswolf be like...


BBW12OG
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Mormad said:

I gotta find more stuff to be offended about
"Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right." - George Orwell "1984"

It's how the SOCIALIST PARTY rolls. Censorship is something they preach against but yet when they have power they wield it with little regard to rights, freedoms or societal norms. It's their way or the highway.

Editing out the word "comrade" is laughable. I looked through the rules of ISP and it was a choice made by the moderator not one that was required from a broken rule. All about power. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
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