pineknollshoresking said:

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I don't know Civ; however, the following is what I envision when I read his post:

• A person sitting in a winged back leather chair
• Probably has a beard
• Smoking a pipe
• Pontificating every thought before he write something
• Pretends to be an Ivy League professor

All this above allows him to exude an elitist post of superiority. Now, before anybody jumps on me, like I said above, I don't know Civ. This is only my filter when reading his post.

---

LOLOL

Do I stroke my mythical beard while gazing off into the distance when contemplating my next knowledge drop?

It would be an absolute trip to have an IPS barbecue, beer, and bourbon meetup sometime. Hilarious to see how posters compared in real life to their online persona.

Civilized said:

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packgrad said:

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American police dealing with violent criminals are going to have violent interactions. Sitting in your desk chair saying how many they SHOULD have is woke virtue signaling. How many killings without cause did they have last year? Unlike you, I understand accidents happen. That is the nature of the business in high stress environments. Those people should be dealt with. Labeling the entire police force because of the rare exceptions when accidents do happen is simply trying to force a narrative.

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I don't know why you dig in so hard against the notion that we can police better than we do.

POLICE don't even push back that hard against improvement. It's why you've seen an uptick in de-escalation training in recent years.

Cops in other first world countries deal with violent criminals in high stress environments too.

And yet, they do not kill nearly as many of their citizens as we do of ours. We kill more than any other first world nation. Several times more.

Should we not try to improve that situation? Can we not learn from other countries that have outcomes that are between 4x and 60x better than our police at not killing their citizens?

---

I'm not against more police training. I'm fine with that. I would encourage you to read the thread and see that I've already made that point. I think your de-escalation training is probably crap though. You've seen an uptick in deescalation training because of more leftist appointments. Coincidentally you're also seeing vacant police positions increase throughout the country.

I'm not against people being killed by the police. When accidents happened or a bad killing happens, which is a rarity, then we deal with that situation. I don't think we have a shortage of people that should/could be killed by police justifiably.

Packchem91 said:

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Civilized said:

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packgrad said:

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Second amendment supporters have never been proven more right now that Democrat leaders want to take away police.

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AOC and The Squad wanting to do something doesn't mean it's popular amongst Democratic leadership. Given how unique and extreme their views often are it normally means the opposite.

Defunding the police is very unpopular politically.

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We can also deduce it must be a popular notion among those who are charged with bringing us the news....like CNN. They were quick to mock Trump and all his goofy ideas "for being unique and extreme"....heck, even now they still have headlines mocking some of his supporters belief in teh election fraud.
But I don't see any of their "analysis" or "opinion" pieces calling out how unpopular and dangerous what The Squad is saying really is.

Isn't this normalizing those views? Add in guys who have major cache and a platform, like Lebron....and its much more prevalent than you are wanting it to appear.

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Anything that's sensational is "popular" with the cable political opinion news cycle. Their interests are misaligned with the public good.

It's a big part of why that nighttime-opinion-masquerading-as-news format sucks so hard. Same with social media.

Sensational partisan echo chambers are terribly unhealthy.

Ok folks, if you haven't heard about this and/or seen it, take a look...

https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/bwahaha-okeefe-tracks-down-cnn-stooge-at-restaurant-pulls-up-a-set/

Lot's to unravel here this morning...

Glad to see the lefties climbed out of their holes to call for abolishing the police, ending incarceration, defending criminals and erasing our 2nd Amendment rights as Americans.

I'll try and see what I can muster up before being insulted by...well...you know who....

People who make comments like the one I have posted below are the biggest problems. They accuse people they disagree with as being racists when all they need to do is look in the mirror and they will see the true racists is looking at them.

Quote:

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The right lost their mind when one of "them" got elected president. Ground_Chuck - 4-13-2021

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That sums up what I think about that post. Again, when faced with the facts what do the lefties do? Accuse anyone who disagrees with them of being some type of ( -ist ). Typical....

As far as comparing the other countries gun, crime, shooting statistics you also need to compare the social dynamics which many of you lefties will refuse to do.

Black on black crime continues to be the driving factor in high crime rates across this country. You know where? In cities that have been run by lefties for 50+ years and longer. i.e. the SOCIALIST PARTY's plan for keeping their voting base poor, uneducated and beholden to the government.

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/bvvc.pdf

Take time to read this article then come at me with more BS about gun control, better policing etc....

You don't have cities like Chicago, D.C., St. Louis, Minneapolis/St. Paul in Europe or Australia. You have government officials that support the police and people respect the police.

Dear Leader divided this country with every tragic event and laid the blame at the foot of the Law Enforcement Officers. He did so knowing the black community looked up to him and would follow him and his propaganda. It worked. Never in our history has it been more dangerous to be a Police Officer and it is because of what Dear Leader started. Divide and conquer.

He said "(sic) If I had a son he could look like Trayvon..." Well so could the thousands and thousands of gang bangers that account for 7k+ deaths a year but did he mention those criminals or victims? No. Didn't fit the narrative.

Now you have AOC and the Flunky Bunch clamoring for ending policing and incarceration. What the Holy Hell are you lefties thinking? What are you planning on doing? Allowing bank robberies, murders, rape, kidnappings, child molestation, human trafficking etc.....?

These are YOUR elected officials and the campaign ads for 2022 and 2024 are writing themselves.

You lefties are definitely a rare breed. Maybe if we install Horizontal "Cackling Hyena" Harris as your Queen, as many hope for, she will install a government run police force that can wear special colored shirts that can do all the policing and as long as people follow the government orders, follow specific policy everyone will be just fine. If not she can establish special "re-education camps" for all of those people, I'd say 74 million or so, that don't fall in line to attend until they submit to her rule.

You know, one party rule. Good luck with that. One side supports the 2nd Amendment one side doesn't.

As far as the rest of the crap spewed on here last night we should do a reset and get back to the topic at hand. Last statement.... you lefties never fail to step on your own dicks. The crap being spewed about abolishing the police, abolishing prisons coupled with the riots, yes they are riots, will only bite you in the ass in 2022 and even harder in 2024. Way to go... you deserve everything coming your way.

Feel free to dispute anything I have said. I'm sure all of you so-called "libertarians" will be chiming in....

Star of the Democrat party.

She's insignificant...ask the board...lefti....I mean "libertarians..." LMAO...

Like I said... all the Connies have to do is sit back and watch this **** show unfold.

They will save so much money in campaign dollars just putting AOC and Flunky Bunch on a loop. Not to mention all the riots, looting, buildings being burned.

Not to mention...as the lefties have reminded us.. "there's always a tweet...."

Thank you Sleepy Joe. This is on your watch...not that you realize it.

Saw where the cop who shot him resigned. I also suspect she'll get charged with involuntary manslaughter (rightfully so). Doubt that will be enough for the BLM rioters and liberal leadership who want blood.

It was a tragic accident...Brandon Tatum has a pretty good video up breaking down the stop and where the officers screwed up. There were multiple screw ups with this attempted apprehension from the officers, including giving him the opportunity to get back in the car as well as shooting him with the damn gun instead of the taser. Lady cop will have to live with that one the rest of her life. I mean, JFC, how do you do that?

The kid is to blame as well. When are these people going to learn that resisting, fleeing, etc. only leads to bad things happening. There is zero upside to it. Don't resist, let it play out in court. Nothing good will come from running, and you could lose your life over it. And I agree, resisting/fleeing does not mean you should be killed, but why test that?

This had nothing to do with race, and everything to do with poor decision making and a complete **** up by the female police officer. We need better training for our officers and better decision making/lifestyle choices by the general public. Those are your two takeaways from this. Everything else is the typical yelling, screaming, finger pointing, and rioting that will solve nothing.

This isn't relevant to why he was shot (and killed) instead of tased.

You want to go tit for tat on good cop vs. bad cop? You want to go tit for tat on Law Enforcement Officers being ambushed, shot by suspects, murdered in the line of duty?

Sure thing. I'll play your game.

You lefties always like to cherry pick your information and statistics while sitting at home listening to NPR, sipping wine and talking about how "progressive" you are since you don't own a gun, television or a grasp of reality.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/3-officers-shot-injured-after-police-pursuit-georgia-n1263804

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/police-officer-shot-face-head-122623140.html

https://www.themarshallproject.org/records/1336-police-officers-shot-killed

https://nleomf.org/preliminary-fatalities

46 Law Enforcement Officers have been killed so far in 2021 compared to 65 in the entire 2020 calendar year. Using that number and pushing it out for the entire year that would average out to be a little over 13 per month and 158 for the entire year almost tripling the number of LEO deaths from 2020.

You know what the difference is? The man in the White House and his SOCIALIST PARTY's view of LEOs. Dear Leader wanted to dismantle the police and he reminded us of that yesterday. Sleepy Joe hasn't had an original thought since he told black people they "aren't black if you don't vote for him." He's a puppet and it is clear that the far left is pulling his strings.

The left doesn't respect the LEOs and when these wannabe thugs are approached by LEOs they know they don't have to comply. All they have to do is pull out their phones and act stupid, resist arrest, call the cops "racists" etc.... and they have their government behind them supporting them.

It's pretty damn sad that this is what the country has come to. I wouldn't wish it on anyone but for those who want so terribly bad to group all LEOs into a solitary group you should pray you never need one. And if you do I hope you change your BS view of the men and women that go to work everyday not knowing if they are coming home to their families or not.

Freaking pathetic.

Gopack80 said:

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The kid is to blame as well. When are these people going to learn that resisting, fleeing, etc. only leads to bad things happening. There is zero upside to it. Don't resist, let it play out in court. Nothing good will come from running, and you could lose your life over it. And I agree, resisting/fleeing does not mean you should be killed, but why test that?

---

I think this is a lot easier to say behind a keyboard than in the moment when you are pulled over. Him fleeing and him being shot and killed by an incompetent officer are independent of each other. I don't think "blame" is the word you should use for this young man.

IseWolf22 said:

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Civilized said:

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packgrad said:

---

American police dealing with violent criminals are going to have violent interactions. Sitting in your desk chair saying how many they SHOULD have is woke virtue signaling. How many killings without cause did they have last year? Unlike you, I understand accidents happen. That is the nature of the business in high stress environments. Those people should be dealt with. Labeling the entire police force because of the rare exceptions when accidents do happen is simply trying to force a narrative.

---

I don't know why you dig in so hard against the notion that we can police better than we do.

POLICE don't even push back that hard against improvement. It's why you've seen an uptick in de-escalation training in recent years.

Cops in other first world countries deal with violent criminals in high stress environments too.

And yet, they do not kill nearly as many of their citizens as we do of ours. We kill more than any other first world nation. Several times more.

Should we not try to improve that situation? Can we not learn from other countries that have outcomes that are between 4x and 60x better than our police at not killing their citizens?

---

It floors me that people are so resistant to the notion that policing can't or shouldn't be less violent than what we have today. It implies that Americans just less morale, and more violent than every other developed nation's citizens. The media certainly sensationalizes everything, and they overplay race as a factor (class matters more). However, we have numerous opportunities for reform, from decriminalization, to training and accountability.

To start, we need MORE Police with better, longer training and generally higher pay. That said, there needs to be actual accountability as well. All these comments about lamenting about the "attacks" on police ignore the fact that historically it's been extraordinarily hard to punish bad officers. Only recently have some states started to make reforms here and it never would have happened without public pressure. Union arbitration overturns the majority of officer misconduct firings. Even if an officer is fired, as long as they aren't convicted of crime, they can move to another jurisdiction and no nationalized record exists to prevent them working again. Qualified immunity shields them from civil lawsuit for all types of misconduct, even when the judges agree that the act was egregious.

We also shouldn't be teaching officers "Killology" which creates a mindset that perpetrators are animals to be corralled instead of other people. De-escalation training is proven to work. And finally we just need less criminalization of non-violent offenses. The Drug war has failed. It's lost. Low level crap just antagonizes the relations between the poor and police, adds to overincarceration, and leads to recidivism.

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Agree with this.....like so many things, this is not a "single factor issue". Policing absolutely needs to be improved and wrongdoers should be held accountable.

PackBacker07 said:

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This isn't relevant to why he was shot (and killed) instead of tased.

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Neither does George Floyd or any other black person killed by police but for some reason they're ok to bring up.

PackBacker07 said:

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Gopack80 said:

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The kid is to blame as well. When are these people going to learn that resisting, fleeing, etc. only leads to bad things happening. There is zero upside to it. Don't resist, let it play out in court. Nothing good will come from running, and you could lose your life over it. And I agree, resisting/fleeing does not mean you should be killed, but why test that?

---

I think this is a lot easier to say behind a keyboard than in the moment when you are pulled over. Him fleeing and him being shot and killed by an incompetent officer are independent of each other. I don't think "blame" is the word you should use for this young man.

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No. It's very easy to say in both places. Some just don't think people need to have personal accountability based on race.

Packchem91 said:

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PackBacker07 said:

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Gopack80 said:

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The kid is to blame as well. When are these people going to learn that resisting, fleeing, etc. only leads to bad things happening. There is zero upside to it. Don't resist, let it play out in court. Nothing good will come from running, and you could lose your life over it. And I agree, resisting/fleeing does not mean you should be killed, but why test that?

---

I think this is a lot easier to say behind a keyboard than in the moment when you are pulled over. Him fleeing and him being shot and killed by an incompetent officer are independent of each other. I don't think "blame" is the word you should use for this young man.

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What word would you use?

He had 2 options. One, comply. He'd be alive today.
Two, to resist and try to flee -- at which point, he opens up a whole litany of possible outcomes.

During this covid-era, we've been told not to do certain activities, lest it could result in us getting sick.
If you go against that, and go to a bar and hang out with some friends....and then find out one of them unknowingly had covid and you've just contracted it.....do you assign "blame" there?

Clearly the officer was more at fault for making an egregious error. But, it could have been avoided altogether.

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Excellent points.

PackBacker07 said:

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Gopack80 said:

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The kid is to blame as well. When are these people going to learn that resisting, fleeing, etc. only leads to bad things happening. There is zero upside to it. Don't resist, let it play out in court. Nothing good will come from running, and you could lose your life over it. And I agree, resisting/fleeing does not mean you should be killed, but why test that?

---

I think this is a lot easier to say behind a keyboard than in the moment when you are pulled over. Him fleeing and him being shot and killed by an incompetent officer are independent of each other. I don't think "blame" is the word you should use for this young man.

---

Then wherein lies the blame? Are you suggesting the guy who got shot is completely void of any culpability? If so explain your reasoning on that.

Facts:

• he had skipped out on two court appearances
• he had outstanding warrants for his arrest
• he willfully resisted arrest
• he entered his vehicle after escaping from the officers
• they didn't know if he was going to get a weapon or not
• he could have gotten a gun and ended all of the officer's lives had he had a gun
• he could have followed the officer's instructions like 99% of the population does
• he could have been arrested and been held accountable for the laws he had already broken
• if he would have complied he wouldn't be dead

Now we can "what if" this until the cows come home. You are wrong for saying he shoulders no blame for getting shot.

How damn hard is it for people, especially young black males, to listen to the instructions given by the police officers. Is it that important for their egos not to be "disrespected" to show out?

Had his girlfriend not been with him would he have reacted differently? Doubtful.

He had warrants out for trying to rob a girl who had let him and his friend crash at her apartment one night after a party.

That says all I need to know about this young man's character.

The officer made a grave mistake and she likely will pay the consequences for it and rightfully should if due process proves that she did in fact shoot him which she did.

Saying that he is void of all blame is ignorant at best blatantly stupid at it's worst.

And if anyone wants to discuss the percentages of crime broken down by racial demographics feel free to peruse this page and tell me what you think.

The chance of a young black male committing another crime or violent crime goes up substantially after their first arrest.

These are from the FBI so it's not a "news outlet" I'm posting a link to. These are the facts.

Like them or not the officers were within their right to pull this kid. The mistake the officer made was horrible but saying that this kid owns no part of it is total mularkey as you lefties would say.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43

IseWolf22 said:

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Civilized said:

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packgrad said:

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American police dealing with violent criminals are going to have violent interactions. Sitting in your desk chair saying how many they SHOULD have is woke virtue signaling. How many killings without cause did they have last year? Unlike you, I understand accidents happen. That is the nature of the business in high stress environments. Those people should be dealt with. Labeling the entire police force because of the rare exceptions when accidents do happen is simply trying to force a narrative.

---

I don't know why you dig in so hard against the notion that we can police better than we do.

POLICE don't even push back that hard against improvement. It's why you've seen an uptick in de-escalation training in recent years.

Cops in other first world countries deal with violent criminals in high stress environments too.

And yet, they do not kill nearly as many of their citizens as we do of ours. We kill more than any other first world nation. Several times more.

Should we not try to improve that situation? Can we not learn from other countries that have outcomes that are between 4x and 60x better than our police at not killing their citizens?

---

It floors me that people are so resistant to the notion that policing can't or shouldn't be less violent than what we have today. It implies that Americans just less morale, and more violent than every other developed nation's citizens. The media certainly sensationalizes everything, and they overplay race as a factor (class matters more). However, we have numerous opportunities for reform, from decriminalization, to training and accountability.

To start, we need MORE Police with better, longer training and generally higher pay. That said, there needs to be actual accountability as well. All these comments about lamenting about the "attacks" on police ignore the fact that historically it's been extraordinarily hard to punish bad officers. Only recently have some states started to make reforms here and it never would have happened without public pressure. Union arbitration overturns the majority of officer misconduct firings. Even if an officer is fired, as long as they aren't convicted of crime, they can move to another jurisdiction and no nationalized record exists to prevent them working again. Qualified immunity shields them from civil lawsuit for all types of misconduct, even when the judges agree that the act was egregious.

We also shouldn't be teaching officers "Killology" which creates a mindset that perpetrators are animals to be corralled instead of other people. De-escalation training is proven to work. And finally we just need less criminalization of non-violent offenses. The Drug war has failed. It's lost. Low level crap just antagonizes the relations between the poor and police, adds to overincarceration, and leads to recidivism.

---

Disagreed on less violent. Police need to be better trained in how to subdue people quickly. That is through aggressive, assertive violent action. We don't want police to use guns. We don't want police to use tasers. We don't want police to choke. We don't want police to use batons. We think just talking to the people resisting arrest will do it. Or letting them go and another group that Democrats are trying to phase out will go round them up.

Get rid of qualified immunity, or revamp it so it's not protective of bad cops. Fine.

I'm not sure what I feel on legalizing drugs. There was a time I supported it but now seeing the areas that have legalized drugs become vagrant cities and crime skyrocket, I'm not sure I agree with that anymore.

Nobody is teaching cops killology. That's just a liberal taking point. But quite frankly, police have the right to defend themselves. Unfortunately the left disagrees. You think we need more police, better training, and better pay. Good luck getting that with the direction the left is going.

You say the squad is the radicals on their side. Funny how their way keeps getting through. Areas where defunding the police has been pushed through has seen homicides sky rocket. If nobody supports these ideas, how are they being pushed through.

It used to be making people show papers to get into certain places was considered Hitler-esque. Now it's trying to be pushed through in all different segments of industry and the country. IDs were racist. Now, it isn't.

You say the radicals aren't supported and have no power yet somehow they keep getting their way.

I remember when "Silence is violence" and "Silence is support". Somehow that same mindset isn't used with the radical leftists.

Damn it packgrad stop making so much sense and providing factual arguments. The lefties came out of their holes for a few days and all you are doing is running them back into hiding! You know how they run and hide when they can't counter an argument!

Vaccine passports are OK and everyone should be required to have one.... voter ID is racist.

Requiring people to abide by the law enforcement officers is OK as long as it is something the lefties support...mask wearing, closed religious services, closed businesses, closed schools etc..........

*(but it is OK if you are a SOCIALIST politician then you can do what you want... Pelosi, Newsome, Cuomo, Harris etc....rules only apply to the rube Conservatives...not the liberal elites...)

Requiring people to abide by the law enforcement officers is bad when they are asked to put their hands up, drop the weapon, don't loot the Target, don't loot the Foot Locker, don't loot the Dollar General etc.... that too is racist.

packgrad said:

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IseWolf22 said:

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Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

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American police dealing with violent criminals are going to have violent interactions. Sitting in your desk chair saying how many they SHOULD have is woke virtue signaling. How many killings without cause did they have last year? Unlike you, I understand accidents happen. That is the nature of the business in high stress environments. Those people should be dealt with. Labeling the entire police force because of the rare exceptions when accidents do happen is simply trying to force a narrative.

---

I don't know why you dig in so hard against the notion that we can police better than we do.

POLICE don't even push back that hard against improvement. It's why you've seen an uptick in de-escalation training in recent years.

Cops in other first world countries deal with violent criminals in high stress environments too.

And yet, they do not kill nearly as many of their citizens as we do of ours. We kill more than any other first world nation. Several times more.

Should we not try to improve that situation? Can we not learn from other countries that have outcomes that are between 4x and 60x better than our police at not killing their citizens?

---

It floors me that people are so resistant to the notion that policing can't or shouldn't be less violent than what we have today. It implies that Americans just less morale, and more violent than every other developed nation's citizens. The media certainly sensationalizes everything, and they overplay race as a factor (class matters more). However, we have numerous opportunities for reform, from decriminalization, to training and accountability.

To start, we need MORE Police with better, longer training and generally higher pay. That said, there needs to be actual accountability as well. All these comments about lamenting about the "attacks" on police ignore the fact that historically it's been extraordinarily hard to punish bad officers. Only recently have some states started to make reforms here and it never would have happened without public pressure. Union arbitration overturns the majority of officer misconduct firings. Even if an officer is fired, as long as they aren't convicted of crime, they can move to another jurisdiction and no nationalized record exists to prevent them working again. Qualified immunity shields them from civil lawsuit for all types of misconduct, even when the judges agree that the act was egregious.

We also shouldn't be teaching officers "Killology" which creates a mindset that perpetrators are animals to be corralled instead of other people. De-escalation training is proven to work. And finally we just need less criminalization of non-violent offenses. The Drug war has failed. It's lost. Low level crap just antagonizes the relations between the poor and police, adds to overincarceration, and leads to recidivism.

---

Disagreed on less violent. Police need to be better trained in how to subdue people quickly. That is through aggressive, assertive violent action. We don't want police to use guns. We don't want police to use tasers. We don't want police to choke. We don't want police to use batons. We think just talking to the people resisting arrest will do it. Or letting them go and another group that Democrats are trying to phase out will go round them up.

Get rid of qualified immunity, or revamp it so it's not protective of bad cops. Fine.

I'm not sure what I feel on legalizing drugs. There was a time I supported it but now seeing the areas that have legalized drugs become vagrant cities and crime skyrocket, I'm not sure I agree with that anymore.

Nobody is teaching cops killology. That's just a liberal taking point. But quite frankly, police have the right to defend themselves. Unfortunately the left disagrees. You think we need more police, better training, and better pay. Good luck getting that with the direction the left is going.

You say the squad is the radicals on their side. Funny how their way keeps getting through. Areas where defunding the police has been pushed through has seen homicides sky rocket. If nobody supports these ideas, how are they being pushed through.

It used to be making people show papers to get into certain places was considered Hitler-esque. Now it's trying to be pushed through in all different segments of industry and the country. IDs were racist. Now, it isn't.

You say the radicals aren't supported and have no power yet somehow they keep getting their way.

I remember when "Silence is violence" and "Silence is support". Somehow that same mindset isn't used with the radical leftists.

---

We're not the only first-world country in the world that needs to subdue people resisting arrest. We just hurt and kill way more people while we're trying than any other first-world country.

I have a strong suspicion that other first world countries have much better law enforcement interaction outcomes per capita because their interactions are on average less violent than ours, not more violent.

Continue pushing out de-escalation training and reduce the number of armed interactions with citizens.

Stop criminalizing BS petty marijuana offenses. Stop sending cops armed with guns to community and mental health calls that don't require an armed response. Those two changes alone would reduce armed cop interactions by half.

There aren't many (any?) on the left that think that cops shouldn't 'defend themselves'. They should stand there and just get hurt or killed while they're being attacked? Who thinks that?

There are a lot on the left that think that cops are thrust into or insert themselves into avoidable situations that end poorly. Better for cops and citizens alike to get in fewer confrontations that could escalate, or to de-escalate those that they can, no?

That's the point that the right doesn't seem to get. This isn't about cops 'defending themselves'. Keep zooming out. It's about putting cops in fewer situations where they have to.

hokiewolf said:

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BBW12OG said:

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Damn it packgrad stop making so much sense and providing factual arguments. The lefties came out of their holes for a few days and all you are doing is running them back into hiding! You know how they run and hide when they can't counter an argument!

Vaccine passports are OK and everyone should be required to have one.... voter ID is racist.

Requiring people to abide by the law enforcement officers is OK as long as it is something the lefties support...mask wearing, closed religious services, closed businesses, closed schools etc..........

*(but it is OK if you are a SOCIALIST politician then you can do what you want... Pelosi, Newsome, Cuomo, Harris etc....rules only apply to the rube Conservatives...not the liberal elites...)

Requiring people to abide by the law enforcement officers is bad when they are asked to put their hands up, drop the weapon, don't loot the Target, don't loot the Foot Locker, don't loot the Dollar General etc.... that too is racist.

---

you love the Strawman argument, don't you? Literally no one has said any of this in this thread. All anyone has said is that maybe we should be looking at a different way of policing.

Packgrads post above is a good one. It makes sense and adds to the discussion. Your post however, does none of that.

---

Where is the strawman argument? You say that but I honestly don't think you know what the word actually means.

You keep saying that we should be looking at a different way of policing but you haven't offered up one single recommendation, idea or thought.

You don't like my posting style and I get that. Saying it doesn't bring anything to the discussion is basically whining like a baby that doesn't get his or her way. You've done that plenty.

What you also have done yet again is fail to dispute any of the facts that I have listed and mentioned. When it doesn't fit your "narrative" you gloss over it, ignore it and use the word "strawman."

Every single thing I have mentioned is intertwined with the premise of the original post. They are ALL related. You may not see it and it is because you choose not to.

Now if you want to bring some ideas to the table feel free to do so. I'll gladly discuss them with you. But to keep saying "strawman" every time you can't refute a point is once again tiresome. But typical.

You are dead wrong on this line...dead wrong...

Quote:

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Stop sending cops armed with guns to community and mental health calls that don't require an armed response.

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These "community and mental health" calls are the most dangerous and high risk for police officers. Many times these individuals are armed, have hostages (mostly family members) and are at high risk for using deadly force.

What are you going to do? Ask them to sit on the couch and talk to them? You don't think LEOs need to have guns to protect the innocent from the people they are being called to address?

You lefties have a sense of reality that is beyond belief. You watch too many BS television shows depicting sunshine and rainbow outcomes 90% of the time.

Tell me this, a schizophrenic takes four people hostage with a gun.... you want to send to 20 something psych majors to "talk him out" of killing the people who he thinks are trying to kill him?

It's all well and good on paper. When this happens and the two psych officers have their brains blown out I guess that is just part of the job right?

But the perp didn't get injured. Is that the left's end game?

Geez.... here in lies the problem. Too many people only see the Utopian outcome and not the reality.

Most, if not all, and I mean major, not two stoplight town Police Departments, have psych officers that are accompanied by field officers. That is SOP. And they do a damn good job.

It's funny to me that the very same people that have clamored for "defunding the police" are now clamoring for interventionists, psychologists etc...

Once again the hypocrisy of the left knows absolutely no boundaries.

When the "cops" are facing drug dealers, gangs, many who are here illegally and because they are in sanctuary cities they are released after being arrested, they need to be soldiers.

You know why? Because the gangs and cartels are armed better than they are.

Before you soap box gun control remember most of these guns ARE illegal and were purchased/stolen illegally.

You expect the "cops" to do "cop" work against paramilitary groups that have owned the streets for decades under Democrat rule?

Again.. I could care less about your politics. All I know is what I read. I'm not angry... I'm actually quite content that the lefties have gotten exactly what 74 million Americans knew what would happen when this **** show of an administration took over.

You can obfuscate all you want and fail to address anything I have said. Typical... you can be fake offended by me calling the left lefties... I could honestly give a ***** Even more so I could give a **** about your opinion of my wife, family or anyone I'm in contact with.

The fact you can't argue points and facts that I bring is telling. You have no substance just bluster.

Quite frankly you seem to be the one that is dissatisfied with your station in life. I'm comfortable enough to come on here, voice my opinion, provide facts, sources, links to support them.

What the hell have you done or contributed other than calling me a big meanie?

packgrad said:

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Im not a lawyer in any sense, but I feel like 2nd degree manslaughter is going to be hard to prove. Feels like involuntary manslaughter would have been a more appropriate charge

BBW12OG said:

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When the "cops" are facing drug dealers, gangs, many who are here illegally and because they are in sanctuary cities they are released after being arrested, they need to be soldiers.

You know why? Because the gangs and cartels are armed better than they are.

Before you soap box gun control remember most of these guns ARE illegal and were purchased/stolen illegally.

You expect the "cops" to do "cop" work against paramilitary groups that have owned the streets for decades under Democrat rule?

Again.. I could care less about your politics. All I know is what I read. I'm not angry... I'm actually quite content that the lefties have gotten exactly what 74 million Americans knew what would happen when this **** show of an administration took over.

You can obfuscate all you want and fail to address anything I have said. Typical... you can be fake offended by me calling the left lefties... I could honestly give a ***** Even more so I could give a **** about your opinion of my wife, family or anyone I'm in contact with.

The fact you can't argue points and facts that I bring is telling. You have no substance just bluster.

Quite frankly you seem to be the one that is dissatisfied with your station in life. I'm comfortable enough to come on here, voice my opinion, provide facts, sources, links to support them.

What the hell have you done or contributed other than calling me a big meanie?

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I sure am glad you idiots are dying off. Go have another makers....