Would someone not wearing a mask and giving me COVID be considered "treading on me?"caryking said:Hokie, true conservatives don't use words like "collective society". Again, I will say the beauty of this country is that people can/should be able to do whatever stupid thing they want, just "don't tread on me". People say stupid things, on this board, all the time. Who am I to sensor them?hokiewolf said:I'm saying with freedom comes responsibility. If you want more freedom, you have to take on more responsibility. If you don't want to have a government mandate, then you have to take on some of that responsibility and have skin in the game.caryking said:Hokie, I personally have a few issues with what you've said; perhaps, this was a slip...hokiewolf said:I consider myself a fairly conservative, albeit registered independent and my personal opinion is that a mask mandate wouldn't be needed if people would take the personal responsibility to wear a mask out in public. Because some vocal few choose to not do so because of some misguided freedom principles you wouldn't even be having a discussion about a mask mandate.GuerrillaPack said:So conservatives and Republicans are opposed to reopening?! No way. Conservatives are completely against these mask mandates and fully in favor of reopening. To the contrary, Cooper's stance on the lockdowns/reopening and mandatory masks is what is a losing issue. The average person is sick and tired of the lockdowns and mandatory mask edicts.hokiewolf said:He overplayed his hand on his stance of reopening and masks and didn't pivot to more ads when Covid tamped down what worked for him in the past - grass roots campaigning with personal appearances and rallies.GuerrillaPack said:How so? What did Forest do that was "terrible"?hokiewolf said:
WWI can totally see people voting for Trump and Tillis and not for Forrest. Forrest ran a terrible campaign.
If Forrest had simply said that masks aren't the solution or the cure to prevent Covid spread, but masks and social distancing are the best tools we have available right now to help keep our economy open and we should use it, he'd be our next governor. Instead, he choose to do the opposite and it is one of the reasons why it cost him the election.
I am taking what you've said as: take personal accountability or we should have government intervention. The very nature of you stating someone isn't taking personal responsibility, because they chose not to wear a mask, is misguided. Perhaps, they feel as if they are taking personal responsibility and you just disagree with them. In a conservative, freedom, liberty loving society, people have the ability to make decision you may not agree with.
So, you don't agree with them on the way they take personal responsibility and it becomes ok for the government to mandate mask wearing. Yea, that doesn't align with conservatives I know...
There is a difference between freedom in a society and personal freedom to do as I please. Freedom in society comes with social responsibility that sometimes you have to balance your personal freedom to do as you please with the collective responsibility that we all live in a society together that has to function.
So, yes, I feel like if you choose not to wear a mask in public you are being selfish. You absolutely have that right to do so but you should also not be surprised when that selfish freedom is taken away from you by the collective society with a government mandate.
I don't think masks are the magic bullet to cure everything, but I do believe they help based upon what I've personally researched and educated myself and from personal experience where I've been in close contact with someone with COVID who was not symptomatic and wearing a cloth mask and I did not get infected. I simply choose to wear a mask in public because I do not know at any time whether I have an infection or not. All I think anyone without a political axe to grind is asking is that that same courtesy be extended to everyone else in a public setting. I think that is the key to keeping the economy open and not a huge request or an impingement on constitutional freedoms.
As far as mask effectiveness: Who knows? Does it hurt? probably not... Social distancing hurt? probably not...
With all these mandates, already in place, why are we having the spike right now? I don't know... perhaps you should look at a bigger picture; like, The Big Reset! Research it for the goals they want to implement worldwide...
Sierrawolf said:Would someone not wearing a mask and giving me COVID be considered "treading on me?"caryking said:Hokie, true conservatives don't use words like "collective society". Again, I will say the beauty of this country is that people can/should be able to do whatever stupid thing they want, just "don't tread on me". People say stupid things, on this board, all the time. Who am I to sensor them?hokiewolf said:I'm saying with freedom comes responsibility. If you want more freedom, you have to take on more responsibility. If you don't want to have a government mandate, then you have to take on some of that responsibility and have skin in the game.caryking said:Hokie, I personally have a few issues with what you've said; perhaps, this was a slip...hokiewolf said:I consider myself a fairly conservative, albeit registered independent and my personal opinion is that a mask mandate wouldn't be needed if people would take the personal responsibility to wear a mask out in public. Because some vocal few choose to not do so because of some misguided freedom principles you wouldn't even be having a discussion about a mask mandate.GuerrillaPack said:So conservatives and Republicans are opposed to reopening?! No way. Conservatives are completely against these mask mandates and fully in favor of reopening. To the contrary, Cooper's stance on the lockdowns/reopening and mandatory masks is what is a losing issue. The average person is sick and tired of the lockdowns and mandatory mask edicts.hokiewolf said:He overplayed his hand on his stance of reopening and masks and didn't pivot to more ads when Covid tamped down what worked for him in the past - grass roots campaigning with personal appearances and rallies.GuerrillaPack said:How so? What did Forest do that was "terrible"?hokiewolf said:
WWI can totally see people voting for Trump and Tillis and not for Forrest. Forrest ran a terrible campaign.
If Forrest had simply said that masks aren't the solution or the cure to prevent Covid spread, but masks and social distancing are the best tools we have available right now to help keep our economy open and we should use it, he'd be our next governor. Instead, he choose to do the opposite and it is one of the reasons why it cost him the election.
I am taking what you've said as: take personal accountability or we should have government intervention. The very nature of you stating someone isn't taking personal responsibility, because they chose not to wear a mask, is misguided. Perhaps, they feel as if they are taking personal responsibility and you just disagree with them. In a conservative, freedom, liberty loving society, people have the ability to make decision you may not agree with.
So, you don't agree with them on the way they take personal responsibility and it becomes ok for the government to mandate mask wearing. Yea, that doesn't align with conservatives I know...
There is a difference between freedom in a society and personal freedom to do as I please. Freedom in society comes with social responsibility that sometimes you have to balance your personal freedom to do as you please with the collective responsibility that we all live in a society together that has to function.
So, yes, I feel like if you choose not to wear a mask in public you are being selfish. You absolutely have that right to do so but you should also not be surprised when that selfish freedom is taken away from you by the collective society with a government mandate.
I don't think masks are the magic bullet to cure everything, but I do believe they help based upon what I've personally researched and educated myself and from personal experience where I've been in close contact with someone with COVID who was not symptomatic and wearing a cloth mask and I did not get infected. I simply choose to wear a mask in public because I do not know at any time whether I have an infection or not. All I think anyone without a political axe to grind is asking is that that same courtesy be extended to everyone else in a public setting. I think that is the key to keeping the economy open and not a huge request or an impingement on constitutional freedoms.
As far as mask effectiveness: Who knows? Does it hurt? probably not... Social distancing hurt? probably not...
With all these mandates, already in place, why are we having the spike right now? I don't know... perhaps you should look at a bigger picture; like, The Big Reset! Research it for the goals they want to implement worldwide...
I am trying to understand where you claim that someone is taking personal responsibility by not wearing a mask. That is taking a personal responsibility for themselves, but that choice may / may not endanger someone else. Following your logic, you can ignore laws and recommendations meant to keep you and others safe if you feel like they are over burdensome on yourself, regardless of the effect on someone else.caryking said:Study your constitution. Governors can't make laws, only the legislator; but, based on your logic, yea, I guess they can...statefan91 said:
So is someone taking personal responsibility if they decide to drive at say, .16 BAC, but they feel that the law of .08 is overkill and they don't need to follow it?
hokiewolf said:
I don't say I'm a true conservative. When I look at things, I tend to skew conservative on matters of finance, personal freedom, and less government, less gun control, but I also tend to think that some things need to be balanced in order to have a functioning society( i.e. access to health care, functioning schools, access to opportunity, less drug war). If you're looking at me for someone to pass a purity test on being a true liberal or a true conservative, I'm not ever going to score 100 either way.
Your statement: "Again, I will say the beauty of this country is that people can/should be able to do whatever stupid thing they want, just "don't tread on me". People say stupid things, on this board, all the time. Who am I to sensor them?"
This is what I'm referring to. If you want to do something that stupid, that's your right, but be prepared for the consequences. In this case, it's politicians whom you disagree with seeing an opportunity to impose their will on your freedoms.
statefan91 said:I am trying to understand where you claim that someone is taking personal responsibility by not wearing a mask. That is taking a personal responsibility for themselves, but that choice may / may not endanger someone else. Following your logic, you can ignore laws and recommendations meant to keep you and others safe if you feel like they are over burdensome on yourself, regardless of the effect on someone else.caryking said:Study your constitution. Governors can't make laws, only the legislator; but, based on your logic, yea, I guess they can...statefan91 said:
So is someone taking personal responsibility if they decide to drive at say, .16 BAC, but they feel that the law of .08 is overkill and they don't need to follow it?
yesSupplyChainPack said:
"Functioning schools - good luck. Schools have been taken over by radical, anti American groups. I say privatize the whole damn thing, it's gotten so bad"
Every student gets a voucher. The parents can use the voucher at a public school or a private school. Home schoolers get a reduced voucher.
Schools eligible for voucher need to meet minimal academic requirements - divorced, of course from political ideology. Yearly state tests can be used to reveal substandard schools or fraud.
But the public school virtual monopoly comes to an end.
Why?GuerrillaPack said:
These tyrants want you locked inside your home, not being able to travel, and literally wearing a mask inside your own house.
You aren't potentially infecting lots of other people when you're out riding your bike. You might get killed. That's about it.caryking said:statefan91 said:I am trying to understand where you claim that someone is taking personal responsibility by not wearing a mask. That is taking a personal responsibility for themselves, but that choice may / may not endanger someone else. Following your logic, you can ignore laws and recommendations meant to keep you and others safe if you feel like they are over burdensome on yourself, regardless of the effect on someone else.caryking said:Study your constitution. Governors can't make laws, only the legislator; but, based on your logic, yea, I guess they can...statefan91 said:
So is someone taking personal responsibility if they decide to drive at say, .16 BAC, but they feel that the law of .08 is overkill and they don't need to follow it?
What I am saying is people have, based on our founding, the right to make personal decisions. What is good for you doesn't make it good for another.
When it comes to mask mandates; they are not laws!!! The legislature did not pass a law. The Governor created an edict and now we have to listen?
Let's say the governor says: thou shall not ride motorcycles between 8-5 everyday because it's dangerous and could cause death. Does he have that right?
"saving lives"SexualChocolate said:
If it saves lives, I'm all for it. And glad to see you back Guerrilla!!
Pacfanweb said:You aren't potentially infecting lots of other people when you're out riding your bike. You might get killed. That's about it.caryking said:statefan91 said:I am trying to understand where you claim that someone is taking personal responsibility by not wearing a mask. That is taking a personal responsibility for themselves, but that choice may / may not endanger someone else. Following your logic, you can ignore laws and recommendations meant to keep you and others safe if you feel like they are over burdensome on yourself, regardless of the effect on someone else.caryking said:Study your constitution. Governors can't make laws, only the legislator; but, based on your logic, yea, I guess they can...statefan91 said:
So is someone taking personal responsibility if they decide to drive at say, .16 BAC, but they feel that the law of .08 is overkill and they don't need to follow it?
What I am saying is people have, based on our founding, the right to make personal decisions. What is good for you doesn't make it good for another.
When it comes to mask mandates; they are not laws!!! The legislature did not pass a law. The Governor created an edict and now we have to listen?
Let's say the governor says: thou shall not ride motorcycles between 8-5 everyday because it's dangerous and could cause death. Does he have that right?
The stupid ass straight pipes that Harleys run might irritate other folks, and don't do a thing other than that, ("loud pipes save lives" is a load of crap) but that's about it.
Why do the communists/Left also want to take away our freedom of speech? Why do they want to take our guns, and have the population totally disarmed, and in complete subjection to the rulers/government? Why do they want to tax us to death, and abolish private ownership of property? Why was one of Marx's top goals to destroy the middle class, and why do the communists want the entire population to be a class of impoverished "serfs" in dependence to government handouts (welfare, stimulus checks, etc)?Pacfanweb said:Why?GuerrillaPack said:
These tyrants want you locked inside your home, not being able to travel, and literally wearing a mask inside your own house.
You can laugh at me and call me a "conspiracy theorist" or whatever name in the book you want. But you can't prove that what I'm saying is false.SexualChocolate said:
Keep preaching Guerilla, I need my daily gut wrenching laughs!
GP, I support most what you say; however, the earth thing has me puzzled...GuerrillaPack said:You can laugh at me and call me a "conspiracy theorist" or whatever name in the book you want. But you can't prove that what I'm saying is false.SexualChocolate said:
Keep preaching Guerilla, I need my daily gut wrenching laughs!
I have an entire thread in the Water Cooler on it. Don't want to sidetrack this one debating it. As with any subject, I would recommend that a person do their own research and look into it for themselves. I could recommend some good YouTube channels if you are interested.caryking said:GP, I support most what you say; however, the earth thing has me puzzled...GuerrillaPack said:You can laugh at me and call me a "conspiracy theorist" or whatever name in the book you want. But you can't prove that what I'm saying is false.SexualChocolate said:
Keep preaching Guerilla, I need my daily gut wrenching laughs!
GuerrillaPack said:You can laugh at me and call me a "conspiracy theorist" or whatever name in the book you want. But you can't prove that what I'm saying is false.SexualChocolate said:
Keep preaching Guerilla, I need my daily gut wrenching laughs!
statefan91 said:
That's not really accurate. There were plenty of connections established to Trump's campaign and transition teams: https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/report_volume5.pdf
I think he should be charged with the Logan act and investigated. He admitted to doing the same thing that got Flynn investigated for and ended up in court over.SupplyChainPack said:
BTW,. I just have to ask....Do you think Biden should be charged right now and tried for violating the Hatch Act?
Why or why not? Please show your work.
I don't know what the Hatch Act is, can you please explain it and then I'm happy to comment?SupplyChainPack said:
BTW,. I just have to ask....Do you think Biden should be charged right now and tried for violating the Hatch Act?
Why or why not? Please show your work.