waxhaw said:

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James Henderson said:

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I get it, we wanted this to play out differently for NC State. I know I did, and the NCAA definitely could have been more vocal about how they handled it.

But we had 8 positives on our roster, including 4 positives from non-vaxed players (prior to the testing of vaxxed players). I'm still surprised they even let State play Friday knowing State had 4 positives and counting.

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I guarantee other teams had positives too.we just didn't know it because they weren't testing vaccinated players.

Also if Vandy played us twice, and we were so dangerous..why were they not disqualified also? If you say it is because they tested negative.why couldn't our negative tests play?

The whole thing is bull***** The university should sue the ncaa and if I was a player's parent who followed protocol and got kicked out due to the ncaa following some arbitrary BS rules that they made up on the fly, I would sue also.

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wilmwolf80 said:

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Per multiple reports, there was only one fully vaccinated team there. Any team that had any amount of unvaccinated players or personnel were assuming the same risk. Doesn't matter if it was 1 player or 14. NC State didn't engage in any more risky behavior than any other team. That's a fallacy.

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PackFansXL said:

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James has shot himself in the foot on this topic so many times he must have reloaded. Sheesh!

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griff17matt said:

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PackFansXL said:

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James has shot himself in the foot on this topic so many times he must have reloaded. Sheesh!

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Eh, James relies on supposedly in-place and agreed-to procedures to absolve the NCAA and place more blame on NC State. Everyone else seems to be relying on feelings, the reaction by everyone else to what happened, and the history of NC State **** to absolve NC State and place more blame on the NCAA. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

I'd wager the NCAA hadn't really thought out what would happen if this situation came to pass and made stuff up on the fly to try to rescue the finals. NC State was quite reckless with regards to how they treated COVID, didn't insulate their team or staff, some of whom were OBVIOUSLY not vaccinated, and were generally flippant about exposing their sickness in the media like a bunch of dumbasses.

I don't believe the university should ever force their students to take a hastily thrown together vaccination where you can still become infected and show symptoms, though symptoms will assuredly be less severe than those who are unvaccinated. But as long as you have the *absolutely* political nature that has dominated the vaccine talk, you will send out mixed messages that would inform a normal person's cost-benefit analysis. There is blame on both sides and just like with our politics today no one seems to be able to have nuanced discussion anymore. The NCAA AND NC STATE both have blame here. Just like the "you should have complained about covid protocols before the tourney" take is stupid, so is the "we tested positive so every other team should have been tested" take.

Honestly, this entire conversation has been beaten and set on fire. Nothing, NOTHING, will change. Boo will be feckless. Emmert will be an empty suit. Randy will point to the endowment and shrug. TuffyTalk can post every day from now until Jesus comes back, but NC State ain't doing a single damn thing about any of this. It is what it is and the best thing we can do as a fan base is turn our attention to next year and pour everything we can into making this program the program to come to in the ACC. Renovate Doak, get butts in the seats, make Omaha next year, build momentum. That should be the focus. Not the inept, fraudulent crooks at the NCAA.

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JCooke93 said:

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Um some of the 14 ones have had the 1 shot or already had Covid19 before the season or during the Duke Series

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griff17matt said:

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James Henderson said:

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griff17matt said:

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PackFansXL said:

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James has shot himself in the foot on this topic so many times he must have reloaded. Sheesh!

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Eh, James relies on supposedly in-place and agreed-to procedures to absolve the NCAA and place more blame on NC State. Everyone else seems to be relying on feelings, the reaction by everyone else to what happened, and the history of NC State **** to absolve NC State and place more blame on the NCAA. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

I'd wager the NCAA hadn't really thought out what would happen if this situation came to pass and made stuff up on the fly to try to rescue the finals. NC State was quite reckless with regards to how they treated COVID, didn't insulate their team or staff, some of whom were OBVIOUSLY not vaccinated, and were generally flippant about exposing their sickness in the media like a bunch of dumbasses.

I don't believe the university should ever force their students to take a hastily thrown together vaccination where you can still become infected and show symptoms, though symptoms will assuredly be less severe than those who are unvaccinated. But as long as you have the *absolutely* political nature that has dominated the vaccine talk, you will send out mixed messages that would inform a normal person's cost-benefit analysis. There is blame on both sides and just like with our politics today no one seems to be able to have nuanced discussion anymore. The NCAA AND NC STATE both have blame here. Just like the "you should have complained about covid protocols before the tourney" take is stupid, so is the "we tested positive so every other team should have been tested" take.

Honestly, this entire conversation has been beaten and set on fire. Nothing, NOTHING, will change. Boo will be feckless. Emmert will be an empty suit. Randy will point to the endowment and shrug. TuffyTalk can post every day from now until Jesus comes back, but NC State ain't doing a single damn thing about any of this. It is what it is and the best thing we can do as a fan base is turn our attention to next year and pour everything we can into making this program the program to come to in the ACC. Renovate Doak, get butts in the seats, make Omaha next year, build momentum. That should be the focus. Not the inept, fraudulent crooks at the NCAA.

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Oh I've heard throughout the years I often place blame in the wrong places. We generally get in with coaches vs. players. A lot of folks on here want to cry about the coaches, I'll cry about the players because I think the players matter more. I've said that all along.

You think I want to say I think NC State deserves blame here? Hell no. But when you hear how some things were handled on the back-end, it makes you question some of how State handled it.

I'll give you an example. You already know you're taking 13-14 unvaxxed players to Omaha. Why do you have two unvaxxed players rooming together? The likelihood is if one does test positive than their roomate will be quarantined and tested if unvaxxed.

Why would you do that? NC State apparently did. Why would I blame that on the NCAA? A lot of this came about because a second player had to quarantine and was continiously tested plus an additional test Friday AM.

Or here's another. It was reported State had two lower-level staffers who were unvaxxed. Why bring them to Omaha? Why increase risk of a potential positive with student intern/assistant? That's just not smart to me.

Brother I'd love to just say "it was all the NCAA!!!!!" Sorry, I can't do that here. I guess that means I'm not a NC State fan.

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You apparently missed the entire point of my post. I don't think the NCAA is all to blame just like I don't think NC State is all to blame. Do the vaccines matter or not? If they do, then who gives a **** if a vax'd player tests positive? If they don't matter then why are you not testing everyone? I think that's the thing those opposed to your view really hinge their argument on. NC State handled this beyond poorly. I'm not sure they could have handled it worse, before or after the poo hit the fan. I just think you're giving the NCAA a free pass on blame and it's just infuriating to be honest. It almost feels like you're taking that stance JUST so you can ***** with everyone in this thread. It feels that obtuse.

I don't really give a tinker's fart who is to blame at this point. I think they're all licking windows and I honestly have no clue how any of them reached where they are with how inept they are. To not have anyone on staff raise a hand and say, hey how smart is it to bring some unvaccinated folks on this trip with us? It defies logic. To have no one raise a hand and say, excuse me mr. applicable NCAA person, could you please define your covid protocols more because there seems to be a lot of loopholes and room for interpretation as currently written and if the past has shown us anything it's that you guys don't know your ass from a hole in the ground? It defies logic. There is plenty of blame and it belongs to both sides.

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MaxPack said:

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James Henderson said:

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waxhaw said:

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James Henderson said:

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I get it, we wanted this to play out differently for NC State. I know I did, and the NCAA definitely could have been more vocal about how they handled it.

But we had 8 positives on our roster, including 4 positives from non-vaxed players (prior to the testing of vaxxed players). I'm still surprised they even let State play Friday knowing State had 4 positives and counting.

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I guarantee other teams had positives too.we just didn't know it because they weren't testing vaccinated players.

Also if Vandy played us twice, and we were so dangerous..why were they not disqualified also? If you say it is because they tested negative.why couldn't our negative tests play?

The whole thing is bull***** The university should sue the ncaa and if I was a player's parent who followed protocol and got kicked out due to the ncaa following some arbitrary BS rules that they made up on the fly, I would sue also.

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Yep, you're probably right. The other teams could have had positives too who were vacinnated but since they didn't have a mass outbreak they were never tested.

That was kind of why the NCAA was basically elbowing teams at the beginning to just get as vaccinated as possible.

But NC State brought 14+ unvaccinated players to Omaha. NC State also chose to bring unvaccinated personnel to Omaha (No clue why they'd do that).

If you do those things and other teams are nearly fully vaxxed or fully vaxxed, you know going in you're more at risk to testing/positives results than other teams.

As for the Vandy deal, I assume the NCAA didn't think Vandy needed to contact trace after playing NC State because of the 6-foot/15-minute rule.

I agree with you, it is BS, but we knew going in the best way to avoid all the BS.

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You have ZERO proof the other teams didn't have a "mass outbreak" (defined as 8 positives if we use the ncaa's random number). ZERO.

There were no tests done on other vaccinated players. Assuming each team had at least 8 vaccinated players on their roster there is zero proof there wasn't a mass outbreak on those teams.

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griff17matt said:

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James Henderson said:

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MaxPack said:

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James Henderson said:

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waxhaw said:

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James Henderson said:

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I get it, we wanted this to play out differently for NC State. I know I did, and the NCAA definitely could have been more vocal about how they handled it.

But we had 8 positives on our roster, including 4 positives from non-vaxed players (prior to the testing of vaxxed players). I'm still surprised they even let State play Friday knowing State had 4 positives and counting.

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I guarantee other teams had positives too.we just didn't know it because they weren't testing vaccinated players.

Also if Vandy played us twice, and we were so dangerous..why were they not disqualified also? If you say it is because they tested negative.why couldn't our negative tests play?

The whole thing is bull***** The university should sue the ncaa and if I was a player's parent who followed protocol and got kicked out due to the ncaa following some arbitrary BS rules that they made up on the fly, I would sue also.

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Yep, you're probably right. The other teams could have had positives too who were vacinnated but since they didn't have a mass outbreak they were never tested.

That was kind of why the NCAA was basically elbowing teams at the beginning to just get as vaccinated as possible.

But NC State brought 14+ unvaccinated players to Omaha. NC State also chose to bring unvaccinated personnel to Omaha (No clue why they'd do that).

If you do those things and other teams are nearly fully vaxxed or fully vaxxed, you know going in you're more at risk to testing/positives results than other teams.

As for the Vandy deal, I assume the NCAA didn't think Vandy needed to contact trace after playing NC State because of the 6-foot/15-minute rule.

I agree with you, it is BS, but we knew going in the best way to avoid all the BS.

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You have ZERO proof the other teams didn't have a "mass outbreak" (defined as 8 positives if we use the ncaa's random number). ZERO.

There were no tests done on other vaccinated players. Assuming each team had at least 8 vaccinated players on their roster there is zero proof there wasn't a mass outbreak on those teams.

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NC State's outbreak occured before the vaccinated players were tested, from what I was told. State had four unvaxxed players test positive which triggered the "outbreak" to test vaxed players. At that point, when you have 4 players test positive over a three-day period, that's going to be considered an outbreak on pretty much every level.

Hell in basketball NC State went on a PAUSE when 1 staff member tested postive. 1 staffer, not even a player, but in baseball we actually got to play another game after four players tested positive.

Other teams didn't need their vaxxed players tested because they didn't have a team outbreak, per the NCAA rules.

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I'm assuming you've seen the rules and can answer this question...did the rules explicitly say if you have 4 unvaccinated players test positive that will be considered an outbreak and we will test your vaccinated players?

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MaxPack said:

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James Henderson said:

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MaxPack said:

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James Henderson said:

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waxhaw said:

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James Henderson said:

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I get it, we wanted this to play out differently for NC State. I know I did, and the NCAA definitely could have been more vocal about how they handled it.

But we had 8 positives on our roster, including 4 positives from non-vaxed players (prior to the testing of vaxxed players). I'm still surprised they even let State play Friday knowing State had 4 positives and counting.

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I guarantee other teams had positives too.we just didn't know it because they weren't testing vaccinated players.

Also if Vandy played us twice, and we were so dangerous..why were they not disqualified also? If you say it is because they tested negative.why couldn't our negative tests play?

The whole thing is bull***** The university should sue the ncaa and if I was a player's parent who followed protocol and got kicked out due to the ncaa following some arbitrary BS rules that they made up on the fly, I would sue also.

---

Yep, you're probably right. The other teams could have had positives too who were vacinnated but since they didn't have a mass outbreak they were never tested.

That was kind of why the NCAA was basically elbowing teams at the beginning to just get as vaccinated as possible.

But NC State brought 14+ unvaccinated players to Omaha. NC State also chose to bring unvaccinated personnel to Omaha (No clue why they'd do that).

If you do those things and other teams are nearly fully vaxxed or fully vaxxed, you know going in you're more at risk to testing/positives results than other teams.

As for the Vandy deal, I assume the NCAA didn't think Vandy needed to contact trace after playing NC State because of the 6-foot/15-minute rule.

I agree with you, it is BS, but we knew going in the best way to avoid all the BS.

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You have ZERO proof the other teams didn't have a "mass outbreak" (defined as 8 positives if we use the ncaa's random number). ZERO.

There were no tests done on other vaccinated players. Assuming each team had at least 8 vaccinated players on their roster there is zero proof there wasn't a mass outbreak on those teams.

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NC State's outbreak occured before the vaccinated players were tested, from what I was told. State had four unvaxxed players test positive which triggered the "outbreak" to test vaxed players. At that point, when you have 4 players test positive over a three-day period, that's going to be considered an outbreak on pretty much every level.

Hell in basketball NC State went on a PAUSE when 1 staff member tested postive. 1 staffer, not even a player, but in baseball we actually got to play another game after four players tested positive.

Other teams didn't need their vaxxed players tested because they didn't have a team outbreak, per the NCAA rules.

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Of course they didn't have to test them James! My god this is like talking to a fence post. You just stay there in the same old hole, holding the same damned rusted wire while the modern world just

Never mind. I have a business to run and this ain't it. Sorry to waste your time brother. Peace

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JCooke93 said:

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Yes but if they had the virus some of the 14 they already have the body's in them

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griff17matt said:

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James Henderson said:

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griff17matt said:

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James Henderson said:

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MaxPack said:

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James Henderson said:

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waxhaw said:

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James Henderson said:

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I get it, we wanted this to play out differently for NC State. I know I did, and the NCAA definitely could have been more vocal about how they handled it.

But we had 8 positives on our roster, including 4 positives from non-vaxed players (prior to the testing of vaxxed players). I'm still surprised they even let State play Friday knowing State had 4 positives and counting.

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I guarantee other teams had positives too.we just didn't know it because they weren't testing vaccinated players.

Also if Vandy played us twice, and we were so dangerous..why were they not disqualified also? If you say it is because they tested negative.why couldn't our negative tests play?

The whole thing is bull***** The university should sue the ncaa and if I was a player's parent who followed protocol and got kicked out due to the ncaa following some arbitrary BS rules that they made up on the fly, I would sue also.

---

Yep, you're probably right. The other teams could have had positives too who were vacinnated but since they didn't have a mass outbreak they were never tested.

That was kind of why the NCAA was basically elbowing teams at the beginning to just get as vaccinated as possible.

But NC State brought 14+ unvaccinated players to Omaha. NC State also chose to bring unvaccinated personnel to Omaha (No clue why they'd do that).

If you do those things and other teams are nearly fully vaxxed or fully vaxxed, you know going in you're more at risk to testing/positives results than other teams.

As for the Vandy deal, I assume the NCAA didn't think Vandy needed to contact trace after playing NC State because of the 6-foot/15-minute rule.

I agree with you, it is BS, but we knew going in the best way to avoid all the BS.

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You have ZERO proof the other teams didn't have a "mass outbreak" (defined as 8 positives if we use the ncaa's random number). ZERO.

There were no tests done on other vaccinated players. Assuming each team had at least 8 vaccinated players on their roster there is zero proof there wasn't a mass outbreak on those teams.

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NC State's outbreak occured before the vaccinated players were tested, from what I was told. State had four unvaxxed players test positive which triggered the "outbreak" to test vaxed players. At that point, when you have 4 players test positive over a three-day period, that's going to be considered an outbreak on pretty much every level.

Hell in basketball NC State went on a PAUSE when 1 staff member tested postive. 1 staffer, not even a player, but in baseball we actually got to play another game after four players tested positive.

Other teams didn't need their vaxxed players tested because they didn't have a team outbreak, per the NCAA rules.

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I'm assuming you've seen the rules and can answer this question...did the rules explicitly say if you have 4 unvaccinated players test positive that will be considered an outbreak and we will test your vaccinated players?

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"If there is evidence of substantial or high transmission in the community, or if there are COVID-19 variants that escape the effect of the vaccine, then testing may need to resume for fully vaccinated individuals. Such decisions will be made in conjunction with local public health authorities and/or federal guidance."

That is what was in the rules. 4 of 27? players would be approx. 15% of the roster with 10 other non-vaxxed players to likely need additional testing (the Friday two were I assume not quarantining all week like the roomate of #1) as well before returning to action.

There was no specific #. I think they were likely saying 15% of the roster would equal "substantial or high transmission in the community."

IMO what really did State in was the two random players testing positive Friday AM. I think the hope was this had been kept to just player 1 and his roomate (again, why are unvaxxed players rooming together?). If so then you can just keep those two out and move on.

But then you had two diff. players test positive Friday AM. Who have they been around? Who are their roomates? Is there anyone else lingering who could now test positive the next couple of days?

That is when it got tough for State and the NCAA. I'm glad the NCAA allowed State to play the 1 game with 13. I had folks telling me that AM there was concern that game would be canceled due to the 4 positives.

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So, that's a no then. Again, highly subjective "rule" they have there that could kick a team out of a championship. Community = team? Or community = place where the ball game is being played? If the first, use team, dip****s. If the second, why wasn't everyone on every team tested since there was obviously a covid variant that "escaped the effect of the vaccine"?

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waxhaw said:

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I don't know what NC State can do if a player decides to not take a vaccine that is not FDA approved.

I don't know if NC State made mistakes..I suspect there are things they would change in retrospect. It may not have mattered.

I KNOW the NCAA handled it poorly.

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