Pretty much
What happened during the CWS.
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Last: 3 yr ago by JCooke93
Yup
And if they really care about player safety then all 20k people in the ballpark should have gotten their temperatures checked
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Where I live and in a lot of places, apologies.PackFansXL said:That's certainly not true for some portions of the country.James Henderson said:Because once you got to 8 total positives including the vaxed you still had more testing to be done on all theo ther players given the lag time. That's why State was removed IMO.MaxPack said:James Henderson said:
BTW, I'm not trying to blame anyone here.
I just think any team in the country that has 8 positives over a 4-day period is going to go on a pause/be removed from a tournament, remove the name of the team.
We can talk about the semantics of notification and rules, etc, but 8 positives. Like I said earlier, I'm still shocked they let State play the Friday game with 4 positives.
But you are okay with 8 positives competing if they are vaccinated and no one knows about it? Because that's what it seems like you're saying. That's absolutely what the ncaa rules say.
And if that's the case, then why did State's four positives knock them out if the tournament?
I keep telling you guys it can take 3-5 days to test positive. The 2 guys who tested positive on Friday. Who all had they been around? Now all the players they've been around need to go through that 3-5 day window to see if they are positive or not. It just starts the cycle.
Per the rules, you could be vaxed and positive and still playing, yes because they were not going to test vaxed players.
It's like now publicly if you are vaxed you don't have to wear a mask in public. Guess what, you could still have COVID, but those are the rules we are going by.
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If they really cared about player safety there would have been no season. If fans really cared about their own safety they wouldn't attend games.JCooke93 said:
And if they really care about player safety then all 20k people in the ballpark should have gotten their temperatures checked
Truth is, we can question how much any of us really care about fan/player safety.
I hear yeah
I hate to force a vaccine on someone but other teams said if you want to go to the CWS, you had to be vaccinated or stay at home. I would hate to have been the cause for my team to be eliminated from the CWS because I was unvaccinated and got the Rona.
James Henderson said:Steve Videtich said:
It just verifies what I said at the time. The fact that 4 vaccinated people tested positive should have set off red flags that resulted in everyone on every team being tested. That's where the ncaa failed, imo.
I don't think those were the rules going in.
Never did I say those were the rules going in. I stated what is known as an OPINION. There are policies and protocols everywhere. Every once in a while things change that don't fall into the protocols and policies, so you have to make adjustments.
I feel that 4 vaccinated people testing positive is not something they foresaw and qualifies as a red flag. . At a minimum, Vandy should've been tested because of contact tracing. Doesn't seem as if they were. Bottom line is that the ncaa made a business decision, not a health and safety decision. Again, my OPINION.
I agree with you
You're 100% correct. You can't be tone-deaf to new data/information just because it's inconvenient to your outdated/obsolete rules. If Team A has an "outbreak" (whatever arbitrary definition the ncaa chose to use that particular day...again, as they proved time and again, they were making it up as they went along) then you figure out the impact on the other teams. For example, if you have vaccinated individuals infected at the same rate as non-vaccinated NEW INFO...delta variant confirmed: NEW INFO...then you check out other vaccinated team members. You have Vandy's coach publically saying his players are not going to change how they are meeting and greeting their fans in the hotel. If they have vaccinated players that are positive, they could obviously be spreading or contracting the variant. That should have been a concern.
If you are going to test the vaccinated players of Team A and THEN you decide to send the entire team because VACCINATED PLAYERS TESTED POSITIVE for the delta variant, then you have to test all vaccinated parties remaining in the tournament. If you don't then you have to leave the vaccinated players (even the positive ones) of Team A to compete. It's either one or the other. You either have to prove one or disprove the other. Team A's vaccinated players are no greater a threat than Team B's vaccinated players.
This was the fatal flaw in the ncaa rule. Rather than realize their mistake and err on the side of safety, they just threw Team A under the bus to clean up the mess the ncaa created. It doesn't matter who the team was. If it had taken out all four teams (since the remaining teams were not 100% vaccinated) do you think the ncaa would have stopped to reconsider that maybe it was a flawed rule and come up with an alternative plan? You're damned right they would have and in a New York minute! We would have heard how player safety is paramount for the next twelve months.
This situation had never, ever happened at a previous ncaa event because we've never had a variant like a delta variant before. Again, this is a pandemic, not business as usual. The ncaa should have had the brains, heart, whatever it is they lack to clean up the mess they created. It is why there was such a cluster**** in communication that last week. That is why they literally threw Team A under the bus in the middle of the night. They screwed up and they knew it. They just wanted the "s**tstorm" to go away
The ncaa is so used to being an island and dictating that people just have to live with whatever they say. Those days are coming to an end. It won't be a crash and burn like I'd love to see and like they deserve but it is coming and people need to get on board with holding those SOBs accountable every step of the way.
If you are going to test the vaccinated players of Team A and THEN you decide to send the entire team because VACCINATED PLAYERS TESTED POSITIVE for the delta variant, then you have to test all vaccinated parties remaining in the tournament. If you don't then you have to leave the vaccinated players (even the positive ones) of Team A to compete. It's either one or the other. You either have to prove one or disprove the other. Team A's vaccinated players are no greater a threat than Team B's vaccinated players.
This was the fatal flaw in the ncaa rule. Rather than realize their mistake and err on the side of safety, they just threw Team A under the bus to clean up the mess the ncaa created. It doesn't matter who the team was. If it had taken out all four teams (since the remaining teams were not 100% vaccinated) do you think the ncaa would have stopped to reconsider that maybe it was a flawed rule and come up with an alternative plan? You're damned right they would have and in a New York minute! We would have heard how player safety is paramount for the next twelve months.
This situation had never, ever happened at a previous ncaa event because we've never had a variant like a delta variant before. Again, this is a pandemic, not business as usual. The ncaa should have had the brains, heart, whatever it is they lack to clean up the mess they created. It is why there was such a cluster**** in communication that last week. That is why they literally threw Team A under the bus in the middle of the night. They screwed up and they knew it. They just wanted the "s**tstorm" to go away
The ncaa is so used to being an island and dictating that people just have to live with whatever they say. Those days are coming to an end. It won't be a crash and burn like I'd love to see and like they deserve but it is coming and people need to get on board with holding those SOBs accountable every step of the way.
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I don't know if they tested Vandy's vaccinated players or not after the State game, but Vandy was tested after the State game, one of their officials tweeted that out. I believe it was the whole team IIRC.Steve Videtich said:James Henderson said:Steve Videtich said:
It just verifies what I said at the time. The fact that 4 vaccinated people tested positive should have set off red flags that resulted in everyone on every team being tested. That's where the ncaa failed, imo.
I don't think those were the rules going in.
Never did I say those were the rules going in. I stated what is known as an OPINION. There are policies and protocols everywhere. Every once in a while things change that don't fall into the protocols and policies, so you have to make adjustments.
I feel that 4 vaccinated people testing positive is not something they foresaw and qualifies as a red flag. . At a minimum, Vandy should've been tested because of contact tracing. Doesn't seem as if they were. Bottom line is that the ncaa made a business decision, not a health and safety decision. Again, my OPINION.
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How do we know if a positive is Delta or not? Is that passed on with the results?MaxPack said:
You're 100% correct. You can't be tone-deaf to new data/information just because it's inconvenient to your outdated/obsolete rules. If Team A has an "outbreak" (whatever arbitrary definition the ncaa chose to use that particular day...again, as they proved time and again, they were making it up as they went along) then you figure out the impact on the other teams. For example, if you have vaccinated individuals infected at the same rate as non-vaccinated NEW INFO...delta variant confirmed: NEW INFO...then you check out other vaccinated team members. You have Vandy's coach publically saying his players are not going to change how they are meeting and greeting their fans in the hotel. If they have vaccinated players that are positive, they could obviously be spreading or contracting the variant. That should have been a concern.
If you are going to test the vaccinated players of Team A and THEN you decide to send the entire team because VACCINATED PLAYERS TESTED POSITIVE for the delta variant, then you have to test all vaccinated parties remaining in the tournament. If you don't then you have to leave the vaccinated players (even the positive ones) of Team A to compete. It's either one or the other. You either have to prove one or disprove the other. Team A's vaccinated players are no greater a threat than Team B's vaccinated players.
This was the fatal flaw in the ncaa rule. Rather than realize their mistake and err on the side of safety, they just threw Team A under the bus to clean up the mess the ncaa created. It doesn't matter who the team was. If it had taken out all four teams (since the remaining teams were not 100% vaccinated) do you think the ncaa would have stopped to reconsider that maybe it was a flawed rule and come up with an alternative plan? You're damned right they would have and in a New York minute! We would have heard how player safety is paramount for the next twelve months.
This situation had never, ever happened at a previous ncaa event because we've never had a variant like a delta variant before. Again, this is a pandemic, not business as usual. The ncaa should have had the brains, heart, whatever it is they lack to clean up the mess they created. It is why there was such a cluster**** in communication that last week. That is why they literally threw Team A under the bus in the middle of the night. They screwed up and they knew it. They just wanted the "s**tstorm" to go away
The ncaa is so used to being an island and dictating that people just have to live with whatever they say. Those days are coming to an end. It won't be a crash and burn like I'd love to see and like they deserve but it is coming and people need to get on board with holding those SOBs accountable every step of the way.
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BTW, I wonder what the NCAA considers contact tracing for opposing teams in baseball.
James Henderson said:I don't know if they tested Vandy's vaccinated players or not after the State game, but Vandy was tested after the State game, one of their officials tweeted that out. I believe it was the whole team IIRC.Steve Videtich said:James Henderson said:Steve Videtich said:
It just verifies what I said at the time. The fact that 4 vaccinated people tested positive should have set off red flags that resulted in everyone on every team being tested. That's where the ncaa failed, imo.
I don't think those were the rules going in.
Never did I say those were the rules going in. I stated what is known as an OPINION. There are policies and protocols everywhere. Every once in a while things change that don't fall into the protocols and policies, so you have to make adjustments.
I feel that 4 vaccinated people testing positive is not something they foresaw and qualifies as a red flag. . At a minimum, Vandy should've been tested because of contact tracing. Doesn't seem as if they were. Bottom line is that the ncaa made a business decision, not a health and safety decision. Again, my OPINION.
As long as your memory fits your narrative...
If Vandy was tested entirely and they found no positives, then I can live with that. Tough break for State. But, we will never know will we? Do you trust a Vandy spokesperson to be honest in that situation? I don't, especially with a Vandy head on the medical committee.
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I would imagine the testing is being done by the NCAA not Vanderbilt so I don't think I'd have to trust a Vandy spokesman or the head of the medical committee.Steve Videtich said:James Henderson said:I don't know if they tested Vandy's vaccinated players or not after the State game, but Vandy was tested after the State game, one of their officials tweeted that out. I believe it was the whole team IIRC.Steve Videtich said:James Henderson said:Steve Videtich said:
It just verifies what I said at the time. The fact that 4 vaccinated people tested positive should have set off red flags that resulted in everyone on every team being tested. That's where the ncaa failed, imo.
I don't think those were the rules going in.
Never did I say those were the rules going in. I stated what is known as an OPINION. There are policies and protocols everywhere. Every once in a while things change that don't fall into the protocols and policies, so you have to make adjustments.
I feel that 4 vaccinated people testing positive is not something they foresaw and qualifies as a red flag. . At a minimum, Vandy should've been tested because of contact tracing. Doesn't seem as if they were. Bottom line is that the ncaa made a business decision, not a health and safety decision. Again, my OPINION.
As long as your memory fits your narrative...
If Vandy was tested entirely and they found no positives, then I can live with that. Tough break for State. But, we will never know will we? Do you trust a Vandy spokesperson to be honest in that situation? I don't, especially with a Vandy head on the medical committee.
Teams were tested every other day while in Omaha, so Vandy was being tested too, whoever needed to be. They probably had almost everyone vaccinated so I'd assume their test # was minimal. Vandy's next scheduled test day was Saturday after the State game (they had also tested on Thursday).
I'm not sure what the contact tracing rules are for opposition. I'd assume given it was 6 feet/15 minutes for all other sports it's likely the nCAA didn't think Vandy would need to be contact traced based on NC State's 4 positives.
Sad
Dayum James, just dayum.
yall really just want to torture yourself opening up freshly healed wounds like that dont ya...
mdreid said:
yall really just want to torture yourself opening up freshly healed wounds like that dont ya...
Especially with James. He'd argue with a damn fence post about which side of it he was on. You're not going to sway him any other direction than the opinion he has, so I don't know why y'all waste your time.
griff17matt said:mdreid said:
yall really just want to torture yourself opening up freshly healed wounds like that dont ya...
Especially with James. He'd argue with a damn fence post about which side of it he was on. You're not going to sway him any other direction than the opinion he has, so I don't know why y'all waste your time.
We were having a perfectly fine discussion until James put in his 2 cents. He's very aware of the rules presented at the CWS, but very obtuse as to what we're talking about. I'm wondering if it's intentional sometimes.
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Which opinion of mine here are you trying to sway? I don't feel like I'm giving an opinion on much of anything.griff17matt said:mdreid said:
yall really just want to torture yourself opening up freshly healed wounds like that dont ya...
Especially with James. He'd argue with a damn fence post about which side of it he was on. You're not going to sway him any other direction than the opinion he has, so I don't know why y'all waste your time.
I guess I'm the bad guy here because I think NC State was going home after 8 positives and Vandy didn't need to get tested any differently if the contact tracing rules didn't suggest otherwise? Okay.
Hell Randy Woodson said himself State was done Friday night. I don't get why we continue to have to think this is about the NCAA trying to screw NC State.
Maybe that's the opinion.
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You're right. I'll stay out of it and let you guys continue the discussion.Steve Videtich said:griff17matt said:mdreid said:
yall really just want to torture yourself opening up freshly healed wounds like that dont ya...
Especially with James. He'd argue with a damn fence post about which side of it he was on. You're not going to sway him any other direction than the opinion he has, so I don't know why y'all waste your time.
We were having a perfectly fine discussion until James put in his 2 cents. He's very aware of the rules presented at the CWS, but very obtuse as to what we're talking about. I'm wondering if it's intentional sometimes.
Trust me, I don't want to be obtuse.
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No they weren't because all of the none Vaccine players tested negative 9 times that whole day and Saturday was a go till the NCAA decided to test the Vaccine players
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Yeah, I meant Friday night when they decided to test everyone due to the team outbreak rule. That was Saturday though when they got the resultsJCooke93 said:
No they weren't because all of the none Vaccine players tested negative 9 times that whole day and Saturday was a go till the NCAA decided to test the Vaccine players
My comment on Woodson was from what he said at GoPack.
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O Ok
James Henderson said:Which opinion of mine here are you trying to sway? I don't feel like I'm giving an opinion on much of anything.griff17matt said:mdreid said:
yall really just want to torture yourself opening up freshly healed wounds like that dont ya...
Especially with James. He'd argue with a damn fence post about which side of it he was on. You're not going to sway him any other direction than the opinion he has, so I don't know why y'all waste your time.
I guess I'm the bad guy here because I think NC State was going home after 8 positives and Vandy didn't need to get tested any differently if the contact tracing rules didn't suggest otherwise? Okay.
Hell Randy Woodson said himself State was done Friday night. I don't get why we continue to have to think this is about the NCAA trying to screw NC State.
Maybe that's the opinion.
I really don't give a **** about your opinion on this matter. I've been a member here and at packpride for damn near 20 years, so I just feel like I know how you argue. You have a stance and I've NEVER seen it changed through a discussion. But you'll sure as hell beat a dead horse until you look like Patrick Bateman.
It just is what it is and if people would stop engaging with you when you constantly put trolling bait out, they wouldn't get so frustrated by that engagement with you. I don't think I've ever seen you connect as a fan with anything NC State goes through. As a journalist? Yeah. But you are an unabashed fan of the Lakers and you can tell. You just cover NC State and you can tell. It is what it is. *shrug*
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Trust me, I was as frustrated about this ending as anyone, even if you don't want to believe that. But, I also understand and know that NC State played a major role in the situation, and I'm just not looking to cry and blame someone else.griff17matt said:James Henderson said:Which opinion of mine here are you trying to sway? I don't feel like I'm giving an opinion on much of anything.griff17matt said:mdreid said:
yall really just want to torture yourself opening up freshly healed wounds like that dont ya...
Especially with James. He'd argue with a damn fence post about which side of it he was on. You're not going to sway him any other direction than the opinion he has, so I don't know why y'all waste your time.
I guess I'm the bad guy here because I think NC State was going home after 8 positives and Vandy didn't need to get tested any differently if the contact tracing rules didn't suggest otherwise? Okay.
Hell Randy Woodson said himself State was done Friday night. I don't get why we continue to have to think this is about the NCAA trying to screw NC State.
Maybe that's the opinion.
I really don't give a **** about your opinion on this matter. I've been a member here and at packpride for damn near 20 years, so I just feel like I know how you argue. You have a stance and I've NEVER seen it changed through a discussion. But you'll sure as hell beat a dead horse until you look like Patrick Bateman.
It just is what it is and if people would stop engaging with you when you constantly put trolling bait out, they wouldn't get so frustrated by that engagement with you. I don't think I've ever seen you connect as a fan with anything NC State goes through. As a journalist? Yeah. But you are an unabashed fan of the Lakers and you can tell. You just cover NC State and you can tell. It is what it is. *shrug*
If you think that means I'm not a fan, I'll throw in an is what it is and shrug too.
On this situation, there is no opinion to change. The opinion I have, which is above, is actually a fact.
Email: James@InsidePackSports.com
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Pretty much everyone in the sports world, other than a handful of writers who don't think we should be playing sports anyway, think that what happened was wrong. This really isn't a deal where it's just NC State fans looking for someone to blame. I was honestly shocked at how universal and loud the response was.
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James Henderson said:Trust me, I was as frustrated about this ending as anyone, even if you don't want to believe that. But, I also understand and know that NC State played a major role in the situation, and I'm just not looking to cry and blame someone else.griff17matt said:James Henderson said:Which opinion of mine here are you trying to sway? I don't feel like I'm giving an opinion on much of anything.griff17matt said:mdreid said:
yall really just want to torture yourself opening up freshly healed wounds like that dont ya...
Especially with James. He'd argue with a damn fence post about which side of it he was on. You're not going to sway him any other direction than the opinion he has, so I don't know why y'all waste your time.
I guess I'm the bad guy here because I think NC State was going home after 8 positives and Vandy didn't need to get tested any differently if the contact tracing rules didn't suggest otherwise? Okay.
Hell Randy Woodson said himself State was done Friday night. I don't get why we continue to have to think this is about the NCAA trying to screw NC State.
Maybe that's the opinion.
I really don't give a **** about your opinion on this matter. I've been a member here and at packpride for damn near 20 years, so I just feel like I know how you argue. You have a stance and I've NEVER seen it changed through a discussion. But you'll sure as hell beat a dead horse until you look like Patrick Bateman.
It just is what it is and if people would stop engaging with you when you constantly put trolling bait out, they wouldn't get so frustrated by that engagement with you. I don't think I've ever seen you connect as a fan with anything NC State goes through. As a journalist? Yeah. But you are an unabashed fan of the Lakers and you can tell. You just cover NC State and you can tell. It is what it is. *shrug*
If you think that means I'm not a fan, I'll throw in an is what it is and shrug too.
On this situation, there is no opinion to change. The opinion I have, which is above, is actually a fact.
We are well aware of the facts of this situation. What we have been discussing is the events at the CWS, in our OPINIONS, were anomalous enough to warrant a change of course from what happened. We had posters on this board, with first hand experience of how these things work and should work (testing and such), that said something was just not right with the numbers.
This is what we're discussing! Your incessant, "but the rules said this" comes across as disingenuous to State's cause. Are we not allowed to discuss an opinion of what we though should've happened?
Emmert referencing the "Delta variant" is sooo ridiculous on its face. Total CYA
So in Little League if you have a false positive and still have proff you are still kicked out
What would the ncaa have done if State would've won the game that Friday against Vandy? Would they have had the balls to send State home, and Vandy on to the finals with 2 losses?
Steve Videtich said:
What would the ncaa have done if State would've won the game that Friday against Vandy? Would they have had the balls to send State home, and Vandy on to the finals with 2 losses?
Pretty sure it was said the winner of the MSU/Texas game on the other side would have been crowned champs
pack2010 said:Steve Videtich said:
What would the ncaa have done if State would've won the game that Friday against Vandy? Would they have had the balls to send State home, and Vandy on to the finals with 2 losses?
Pretty sure it was said the winner of the MSU/Texas game on the other side would have been crowned champs
Didn't remember that, but could you imagine the fallout? Also, my belief is they made a business decision by making it so they could finish the tournament. If they simply awarded it to MSU, that would've cut the tournament short. I just wonder if it would've been that easy if a decision for them.
Just thinking out loud on a slow Sunday!
pack2010 said:Steve Videtich said:
What would the ncaa have done if State would've won the game that Friday against Vandy? Would they have had the balls to send State home, and Vandy on to the finals with 2 losses?
Pretty sure it was said the winner of the MSU/Texas game on the other side would have been crowned champs
The amount of naivete required to believe the NCAA was going to miss out on a championship series is incredible. I'm sure they said that was the plan after they didn't have to enact it, that doesn't mean they would've gone through with it.
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