What happened during the CWS.

12,293 Views | 110 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by JCooke93
SexualChocolate
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https://amp.newsobserver.com/sports/article253252958.html?__twitter_impression=true
Pakbackr
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SMH
JCooke93
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Would be nice if the boards of trustees and Boo would do something
89_Grad
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the TLR on the article is that out of the 40 we took to Omaha, 24 were vaccinated. The first positive was Delta variant. Given that, what unfolded really isn't that surprising.
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.
SeaWolf
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JCooke93 said:

Would be nice if the boards of trustees and Boo would do something
Not sure there is much they can do. Gottfried's BS is still hanging out there, they can only yell so loud. I suspect the University is okay with the information in the N&O article coming out via a records request and news article. Provides some cover for the University while answers to some of the questions about the cluster***k are revealed. Fear of NCAA retaliation likely prevented a university news release containing the info back in June. Pretty much an established fact that the NCAA is vengeful.
JCooke93
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True
Rob McLamb
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SeaWolf said:

JCooke93 said:

Would be nice if the boards of trustees and Boo would do something
Not sure there is much they can do. Gottfried's BS is still hanging out there, they can only yell so loud. I suspect the University is okay with the information in the N&O article coming out via a records request and news article. Provides some cover for the University while answers to some of the questions about the cluster***k are revealed. Fear of NCAA retaliation likely prevented a university news release containing the info back in June. Pretty much an established fact that the NCAA is vengeful.
That is two astute observations.
Twitter: @RobMcLamb
73PackFan
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Sad, but true. A worthless governing body trying to hang on to what relevance it has left.
ecbwolf
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Maybe we can tell the NCAA they owe us one!
DrummerboyWolf
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89_Grad said:

the TLR on the article is that out of the 40 we took to Omaha, 24 were vaccinated. The first positive was Delta variant. Given that, what unfolded really isn't that surprising.
You believe that BS from Emmert? Has anybody seen a picture of the Delta variant virus? It's all made up crap. The NCAA screwed us and they know it.
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Packchem91
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One thing we can all agree onEmmert is the least effective leader of a major organization that I can ever remember
Steve Videtich
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It just verifies what I said at the time. The fact that 4 vaccinated people tested positive should have set off red flags that resulted in everyone on every team being tested. That's where the ncaa failed, imo.
Packchem91
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Steve Videtich said:

It just verifies what I said at the time. The fact that 4 vaccinated people tested positive should have set off red flags that resulted in everyone on every team being tested. That's where the ncaa failed, imo.
Agreed --- even Emmert's statement about having that many + players was unsafe for the teams, staff, fans....then why did they allow players to mingle with the crowd EVER?
And....IF having 4 vaccinated players be + at the time was bad....to you point, why not immediately test every single involved person left? IF it was about safety.
Gost8
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Steve Videtich said:

It just verifies what I said at the time. The fact that 4 vaccinated people tested positive should have set off red flags that resulted in everyone on every team being tested. That's where the ncaa failed, imo.


Bingo
JCooke93
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Yup
Deej
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You think the delta variant is made up because you have never seen a picture of it? I'm not even going to get into it but that may be the most ignorant comment I have ever heard. Clueless.
James Henderson
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Steve Videtich said:

It just verifies what I said at the time. The fact that 4 vaccinated people tested positive should have set off red flags that resulted in everyone on every team being tested. That's where the ncaa failed, imo.


I don't think those were the rules going in.
MaxPack
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Correct, which is why the rules were irrelevant in real-time. We are in a pandemic and while I'm sure the ncaa considers themselves several notches above a pandemic in authority the reality is the delta variant doesn't give a damn about ncaa rules or Mark Emmert's opinions.

The delta variant wasn't even a thing when these "rules" were "agreed" (cough, cough) to. It's not like these were some long established ncaa tournament rules that had been in place for years, field-tested with changing/emerging variants, etc. The ncaa clearly had no plan in place and just wanted State to go away because our case exposed the fact that these "rules" had zero to do with safety.

When they recognized it was the delta (known at that very moment to be a rapidly spreading variant that was also infecting the vaccinated-especially J&J-recipients), they should have stopped and tested all remaining players/parties in the CWS. BUT, doing so might jeopardize the CWS. What if a significant number of vaccinated players came back positive? They would have no choice. They had set a precedent with State and eight appeared to be the magic number considered to be an "outbreak."

They had undeniable proof that the variant was present at the CWS and proof that in a small sample size it was infecting vaccinated people at the same rate as unvaccinated.

Their answer? Just get rid of the problem in the middle of the night and keep cashing the checks before it blows up.

wilmwolf
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Exactly. The NCAA did what they had to do to ensure they had a final series. End of discussion. Doesn't matter what the rules were or weren't, which still isn't clear to me, if it's really about player safety, you shut the whole damn thing down. That very clear hypocrisy is why what happened stinks like hot garbage to just about everyone in the sports world.
Just a guy on the sunshine squad.
James Henderson
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MaxPack said:

Correct, which is why the rules were irrelevant in real-time. We are in a pandemic and while I'm sure the ncaa considers themselves several notches above a pandemic in authority the reality is the delta variant doesn't give a damn about ncaa rules or Mark Emmert's opinions.

The delta variant wasn't even a thing when these "rules" were "agreed" (cough, cough) to. It's not like these were some long established ncaa tournament rules that had been in place for years, field-tested with changing/emerging variants, etc. The ncaa clearly had no plan in place and just wanted State to go away because our case exposed the fact that these "rules" had zero to do with safety.

When they recognized it was the delta (known at that very moment to be a rapidly spreading variant that was also infecting the vaccinated-especially J&J-recipients), they should have stopped and tested all remaining players/parties in the CWS. BUT, doing so might jeopardize the CWS. What if a significant number of vaccinated players came back positive? They would have no choice. They had set a precedent with State and eight appeared to be the magic number considered to be an "outbreak."

They had undeniable proof that the variant was present at the CWS and proof that in a small sample size it was infecting vaccinated people at the same rate as unvaccinated.

Their answer? Just get rid of the problem in the middle of the night and keep cashing the checks before it blows up.


The NCAA was only going to test vaccinated players on teams who had an outbreak. It's really that simple.

I don't think in any sport there was a precedent of mass testing everybody once one team had an outbreak. It didn't happen in the men's tourney when I think VCU was sent home.
wilmwolf
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VCU didn't have an outbreak in an open, non bubbled tournament with 20,000+ fans and a fast spreading virus variant. Different circumstances.
Just a guy on the sunshine squad.
James Henderson
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wilmwolf80 said:

VCU didn't have an outbreak in an open, non bubbled tournament with 20,000+ fans and a fast spreading virus variant. Different circumstances.
Right, they had multiple positive tests while at an indoor venue. The NCAA then didn't choose to test all the teams who had been using the venue.
James Henderson
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I get it, we wanted this to play out differently for NC State. I know I did, and the NCAA definitely could have been more vocal about how they handled it.

But we had 8 positives on our roster, including 4 positives from non-vaxed players (prior to the testing of vaxxed players). I'm still surprised they even let State play Friday knowing State had 4 positives and counting.
MaxPack
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James, step back and take a look at this from a non-sports perspective. You're immersed in an ncaa, compliance, rules-based bubble.

This was much bigger story than a fricking "rule" made up by a bunch of athletic bean counters who consult with medical experts much like they do with academic experts. They create an acceptable narrative then do whatever the hell they want to do.

In this case it blew up on them and they were exposed. Once you step out of the ncaa "world" and understand their corruption, it's not difficult at all.

So let's play along with the narrative. Let say that NC State was 100% vaccinated. Since we had 4 positive vaxxed we could have had 8-10 positive vaxxed with the delta variant by the finals and would have had an "outbreak" by the ncaa definition but nobody would have known it because per the ncaa "rule" we wouldn't have tested vaxxed players - even though they were walking around positive with the delta variant.

James Henderson
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MaxPack said:

James, step back and take a look at this from a non-sports perspective. You're immersed in an ncaa, compliance, rules-based bubble.

This was much bigger story than a fricking "rule" made up by a bunch of athletic bean counters who consult with medical experts much like they do with academic experts. They create an acceptable narrative then do whatever the hell they want to do.

In this case it blew up on them and they were exposed. Once you step out of the ncaa "world" and understand their corruption, it's not difficult at all.

So let's play along with the narrative. Let say that NC State was 100% vaccinated. Since we had 4 positive vaxxed we could have had 8-10 positive vaxxed with the delta variant by the finals and would have had an "outbreak" by the ncaa definition but nobody would have known it because per the ncaa "rule" we wouldn't have tested vaxxed players - even though they were walking around positive with the delta variant.


If we're going to all step back and look at this from a non-sports perspective we shouldn't be playing sports.

So if that's our deal, to look at it from a non-sports perspective, let's have that discussion prior to the tourney, not when we felt NC State was done wrong.

As for your narrative, if NC State were 100% vacinnated no one for NC State would have ever been tested so you wouldn't have known about the 4 positive vaxed who all were present for the Friday game.

I also don't know what variant the players had. I still am not sure how we know what variant the COVID you have just b/c you test positive, but I don't spend a ton of time with the politics/COVID stuff.
James Henderson
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BTW, I'm not trying to blame anyone here.

I just think any team in the country that has 8 positives over a 4-day period is going to go on a pause/be removed from a tournament, remove the name of the team.

We can talk about the semantics of notification and rules, etc, but 8 positives. Like I said earlier, I'm still shocked they let State play the Friday game with 4 positives.
MaxPack
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James Henderson said:

MaxPack said:

James, step back and take a look at this from a non-sports perspective. You're immersed in an ncaa, compliance, rules-based bubble.

This was much bigger story than a fricking "rule" made up by a bunch of athletic bean counters who consult with medical experts much like they do with academic experts. They create an acceptable narrative then do whatever the hell they want to do.

In this case it blew up on them and they were exposed. Once you step out of the ncaa "world" and understand their corruption, it's not difficult at all.

So let's play along with the narrative. Let say that NC State was 100% vaccinated. Since we had 4 positive vaxxed we could have had 8-10 positive vaxxed with the delta variant by the finals and would have had an "outbreak" by the ncaa definition but nobody would have known it because per the ncaa "rule" we wouldn't have tested vaxxed players - even though they were walking around positive with the delta variant.


If we're going to all step back and look at this from a non-sports perspective we shouldn't be playing sports.

So if that's our deal, to look at it from a non-sports perspective, let's have that discussion prior to the tourney, not when we felt NC State was done wrong.

As for your narrative, if NC State were 100% vacinnated no one for NC State would have ever been tested so you wouldn't have known about the 4 positive vaxed who all were present for the Friday game.

I also don't know what variant the players had. I still am not sure how we know what variant the COVID you have just b/c you test positive, but I don't spend a ton of time with the politics/COVID stuff.


Thanks for your transparency. You have just proven my point. It was never about safety. It was about hiding positive cases.

I hate the politics of all of this as well which is why I got so angry. The ncaa just threw State under the bus to deal with the political crap of the "non-vax" politics when that was never the issue.

The irony was that people will still beat the drum "but if they had all been vaccinated, the vaccinated players wouldn't have been tested!"

It is hypocritical to say the rules were for player safety and at the same time argue that if State had been 100% vaccinated there wouldn't have been a problem.
DrummerboyWolf
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Deej said:

You think the delta variant is made up because you have never seen a picture of it? I'm not even going to get into it but that may be the most ignorant comment I have ever heard. Clueless.
The people who are clueless are the ones who keep believing this BS. You included.
Being an N. C. State Fan Builds Great Character
JCooke93
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The whole thing was bs and still is
MaxPack
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James Henderson said:

BTW, I'm not trying to blame anyone here.

I just think any team in the country that has 8 positives over a 4-day period is going to go on a pause/be removed from a tournament, remove the name of the team.

We can talk about the semantics of notification and rules, etc, but 8 positives. Like I said earlier, I'm still shocked they let State play the Friday game with 4 positives.


But you are okay with 8 positives competing if they are vaccinated and no one knows about it? Because that's what it seems like you're saying. That's absolutely what the ncaa rules say.

And if that's the case, then why did State's four positives knock them out if the tournament?
Ripper
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This was never about safety. As has been stated, it was about the NCAA coming up with their best solution to not postpone or cancel the CWS. They needed us to go away for money and PR reasons, not safety. And we did (do) not have the weapons to fight back.
James Henderson
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MaxPack said:

James Henderson said:

MaxPack said:

James, step back and take a look at this from a non-sports perspective. You're immersed in an ncaa, compliance, rules-based bubble.

This was much bigger story than a fricking "rule" made up by a bunch of athletic bean counters who consult with medical experts much like they do with academic experts. They create an acceptable narrative then do whatever the hell they want to do.

In this case it blew up on them and they were exposed. Once you step out of the ncaa "world" and understand their corruption, it's not difficult at all.

So let's play along with the narrative. Let say that NC State was 100% vaccinated. Since we had 4 positive vaxxed we could have had 8-10 positive vaxxed with the delta variant by the finals and would have had an "outbreak" by the ncaa definition but nobody would have known it because per the ncaa "rule" we wouldn't have tested vaxxed players - even though they were walking around positive with the delta variant.


If we're going to all step back and look at this from a non-sports perspective we shouldn't be playing sports.

So if that's our deal, to look at it from a non-sports perspective, let's have that discussion prior to the tourney, not when we felt NC State was done wrong.

As for your narrative, if NC State were 100% vacinnated no one for NC State would have ever been tested so you wouldn't have known about the 4 positive vaxed who all were present for the Friday game.

I also don't know what variant the players had. I still am not sure how we know what variant the COVID you have just b/c you test positive, but I don't spend a ton of time with the politics/COVID stuff.


Thanks for your transparency. You have just proven my point. It was never about safety. It was about hiding positive cases.

I hate the politics of all of this as well which is why I got so angry. The ncaa just threw State under the bus to deal with the political crap of the "non-vax" politics when that was never the issue.

The irony was that people will still beat the drum "but if they had all been vaccinated, the vaccinated players wouldn't have been tested!"

It is hypocritical to say the rules were for player safety and at the same time argue that if State had been 100% vaccinated there wouldn't have been a problem.
I don't think the goal of not testing vaxed players was to hide positive tests. I think the thought is vaxed players are less likely to be positive, less likely to transmit, and generally "safer." Right or wrong, I assume that's the thought.

Problem is you can't talk about the corona without for some reason it becoming political for people who care about politics.

My thing is we can argue about the rule setup all we want. Let's do that arguing though prior to the tourney. If we felt all players should be tested, let's say that ahead of time, as fans, players, coaches, etc...

NC State knew going in that if you were vacinnated you wouldn't be tested, UNLESS you had an outbreak within your team. All the teams knew that. So if that were the case, then the teams who were fully vaccinated were going to be in prety damn good shape to finish the event.

At this point sports are just trying to be played. Like I said above, if any of us cared about health, no one would be at games and sports wouldn't be played.
James Henderson
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MaxPack said:

James Henderson said:

BTW, I'm not trying to blame anyone here.

I just think any team in the country that has 8 positives over a 4-day period is going to go on a pause/be removed from a tournament, remove the name of the team.

We can talk about the semantics of notification and rules, etc, but 8 positives. Like I said earlier, I'm still shocked they let State play the Friday game with 4 positives.


But you are okay with 8 positives competing if they are vaccinated and no one knows about it? Because that's what it seems like you're saying. That's absolutely what the ncaa rules say.

And if that's the case, then why did State's four positives knock them out if the tournament?

Because once you got to 8 total positives including the vaxed you still had more testing to be done on all theo ther players given the lag time. That's why State was removed IMO.

I keep telling you guys it can take 3-5 days to test positive. The 2 guys who tested positive on Friday. Who all had they been around? Now all the players they've been around need to go through that 3-5 day window to see if they are positive or not. It just starts the cycle.

Per the rules, you could be vaxed and positive and still playing, yes because they were not going to test vaxed players.

It's like now publicly if you are vaxed you don't have to wear a mask in public. Guess what, you could still have COVID, but those are the rules we are going by.
James Henderson
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Ripper said:

This was never about safety. As has been stated, it was about the NCAA coming up with their best solution to not postpone or cancel the CWS. They needed us to go away for money and PR reasons, not safety. And we did (do) not have the weapons to fight back.
It's never been about safety all year, all season. Not just until it impacted NC State.

You guys really think this was because it was NC State?

I'm telling you, if any of those teams had 8 positive cases documented they'd be going home.
PackFansXL
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James Henderson said:

MaxPack said:

James Henderson said:

BTW, I'm not trying to blame anyone here.

I just think any team in the country that has 8 positives over a 4-day period is going to go on a pause/be removed from a tournament, remove the name of the team.

We can talk about the semantics of notification and rules, etc, but 8 positives. Like I said earlier, I'm still shocked they let State play the Friday game with 4 positives.


But you are okay with 8 positives competing if they are vaccinated and no one knows about it? Because that's what it seems like you're saying. That's absolutely what the ncaa rules say.

And if that's the case, then why did State's four positives knock them out if the tournament?

Because once you got to 8 total positives including the vaxed you still had more testing to be done on all theo ther players given the lag time. That's why State was removed IMO.

I keep telling you guys it can take 3-5 days to test positive. The 2 guys who tested positive on Friday. Who all had they been around? Now all the players they've been around need to go through that 3-5 day window to see if they are positive or not. It just starts the cycle.

Per the rules, you could be vaxed and positive and still playing, yes because they were not going to test vaxed players.

It's like now publicly if you are vaxed you don't have to wear a mask in public. Guess what, you could still have COVID, but those are the rules we are going by.

That's certainly not true for some portions of the country.
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