Minnesota Officer Who Shot Daunte Wright Meant to Fire Taser

19,666 Views | 660 Replies | Last: 12 days ago by hokiewolf
Packchem91
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hokiewolf said:

The current theory is that the affect on jobs by new immigration is largely on the past immigrant population. With the exception of meat packing plants and janitorial services, there is little or now affect on native born population
Thanks. Certainly it stands to reason that newcomers are going to be willing to take less $$ than experienced workers, so would see displacement. At some point though i find it difficult to believe that doesn't affect native-born -- unless the argument is they are already out of the work population? (ie, do the black "natives" in the Bluffton and HHI area no longer count in statistics because they've left the workforce due to displacement, and have jsut remained out??)
Steve Williams
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Mormad said:

I know this is tangential, and in no way am i trying to justify the actions of bad cops, but I'm jaded by my experience of over 26 yrs of taking care of many, many GSWs suffered in the Triad over my training and career. I've managed them, operated on them, and testified in court over them. Those experiences have shaped my feelings, rightly or wrongly. I can't remember a single GSW I've managed in which the wounded was shot by a cop. It is ALWAYS a civilian shooting a civilian for whatever reason. The majority are saved and I've heard lots of stories told. I've always been a little perplexed that, 1. More cops aren't killed by guns every year because they're typically out manned and out gunned, 2. That more civilians are not killed every year by cops trying to do their job given the crazy amount of crime i hear about in these ridiculous situations, 3. That there is not more outcry about the sheer volume of needless shootings/killings of civilians BY civilians even in a relatively small, sleepy city like mine, and 4. The relative acceptance by some family/friends/etc of these incorrigible tragedies like it's just part of life. I've seen it all: unlucky russian roulette, a 6yo killing his 2yo sib when he found daddy's gun and accidently pulled the trigger, hunting accidents, drug deals, gang bangers, suicide attempts, whatever. That 1100 deaths at the hands of cops really, really sucks and i wish the number were zero, but it simply PALES GREATLY to what we're doing to each other. I just wish it would stop, but i don't have a clue where to realistically begin. Anyway, sorry for the tangential minirant and thanks for allowing me to vent a little.
Thank you for this. So many that have one-sided opinions have absolutely zero point of reference of what it is like in the real world. Someone posted that they thought the police killings numbers should be lower. Hell, I'm shocked and consider it darned near miraculous that they aren't higher. I was in law enforcement for 29 years and there are some purely evil people in this world. In fact, there aren't just some, there's hordes of them. Face that day in and day out and then get back to me about your disdain for policing.
IseWolf22
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Packchem91 said:

hokiewolf said:

The current theory is that the affect on jobs by new immigration is largely on the past immigrant population. With the exception of meat packing plants and janitorial services, there is little or now affect on native born population
Thanks. Certainly it stands to reason that newcomers are going to be willing to take less $$ than experienced workers, so would see displacement. At some point though i find it difficult to believe that doesn't affect native-born -- unless the argument is they are already out of the work population? (ie, do the black "natives" in the Bluffton and HHI area no longer count in statistics because they've left the workforce due to displacement, and have jsut remained out??)
The thing is, there is no fixed amount of jobs where immigrants coming in have to displace an American worker. Does that happen on the micro/local scale? Yes. However when you look at the national economy, an immigrant increases demands for goods and services that ultimately create more jobs. A growing population with a free economy is a recipe for more jobs, more growth, and more overall wealth.
pineknollshoresking
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IseWolf22 said:

pineknollshoresking said:

IseWolf22 said:

Eh, I think Republicans actually need to return to the "compassionate conservatism" espoused by Bush. Bush was awful on debt and Iraq was mismanaged at virtually every level of leadership. However, Bush was very pro-immigrant and continues to be one of the few voices on the right really sticking up for immigration. He was also the champion of PEPFAR, possibly one of the most successful foreign aid programs of all time, estimated to have saved ~19 million lives. He's still extremely popular in Africa.
Republicans are compassionate conservative!!!!!

They care about Americans first!!!!

Sorry, your misguided view on the world doesn't understand what true Republicans are. Not the retail Republican! The true Conservative Republican!!!

You are not one, so, you wouldn't know. I suggest asking questions of True Conservatives, in order to get the real understanding of the views.
Compassionate conservatism is a niche philosophy within conservatism and has not been mainstream on the right since Bush.

There is no such thing as a "True Republican", "True Conservative", "True Democrat", etc. The definitions of each change over time as evidence by Trump changing core parts of Republican orthodoxy.
Man, you really need to quit commenting on things that you have no idea about.

Trump set the stage for True Republican! McConnel, McCarthy, Chaney, and the rest are Globalist. True Republicans never had a voice until Trump came along. My points, in another post, outline True Rupublican ideas...
Packchem91
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IseWolf22 said:

Packchem91 said:

hokiewolf said:

The current theory is that the affect on jobs by new immigration is largely on the past immigrant population. With the exception of meat packing plants and janitorial services, there is little or now affect on native born population
Thanks. Certainly it stands to reason that newcomers are going to be willing to take less $$ than experienced workers, so would see displacement. At some point though i find it difficult to believe that doesn't affect native-born -- unless the argument is they are already out of the work population? (ie, do the black "natives" in the Bluffton and HHI area no longer count in statistics because they've left the workforce due to displacement, and have jsut remained out??)
The thing is, there is no fixed amount of jobs where immigrants coming in have to displace an American worker. Does that happen on the micro/local scale? Yes. However when you look at the national economy, an immigrant increases demands for goods and services that ultimately create more jobs. A growing population with a free economy is a recipe for more jobs, more growth, and more overall wealth.
Yep --- and one way I read your point is, this is a complicated, nuanced discussion. Unfortunately, our way of consuming news, and those who speak into it (ie, politicians) rarely make way for nuance. Emotion and fear get involved, etc.

**And the above applies to policing, and frankly, every other national topic that we discuss....
Mormad
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There's not enough money in the world to make me want to be in law enforcement. Especially these days.
hokiewolf
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Yet Trump isnt a true Republican! He was a democrat for ever until he decided to run for President. Populist, yes, Republican no
wilmwolf80
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Mormad said:

There's not enough money in the world to make me want to be in law enforcement. Especially these days.
Amen to that. My best friend was a cop for almost 20 years. Much of that time was spent in vice/narcotics. He dealt the baddest of bad guys. He worked undercover early on, and he was beaten up, pistol whipped, even arrested and spent a day in jail to not blow his cover. Later in his career, he shot two different people in different incidents, both of whom were shooting at him. The second one, the bad guy died, and even though he was protecting himself, it really tore him up that he had killed someone. It didn't help that the bad guys family harassed and threatened him and his family, to the point he had to have a protective detail outside his house. He ended up having to retire due to the PTSD from that incident, but I thank God every day that he's no longer a cop.
Just A Guy
James Henderson
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pack95 said:

James Henderson said:

pack95 said:

James Henderson said:

pack95 said:

Packchem91 said:

James Henderson said:

Packchem91 said:

^BTW, so in the Columbus case, using James' solution...a white cop drives up on the situation...and stops, backs away, and waits for a black cop to show up? And if someone gets killed by the suspect, well, thats just the risk we take to avoid having Lebron and Biden call us racist?


No in James scenario a white cop never shows up. A black cop does and if someone gets shot than no one thinks it's because of skin color.
Well chalk me up as not wanting to live in your town. The day I have to be exposed to further danger because I have to wait for a white cop is sad beyond belief.

Just clean up the policing of people. Quit busting heads because you can. And for god's sake, don't endanger even more people to build in your layer of segregation

And for the record, I don't know if race played a part in the Floyd case or not. Only one person can say whether Chauvin would have treated me or you the same way he did Floyd given otherwise similar circumstances. I tend to agree it was just a powerhungry cop who acted badly. But I do believe with all my conviction, that there are tremendous examples of black people being singled out by police for no good reason....and believe that is likely much more prevalent than the other way around.


Ditto on not wanting to live in James' town. That may be the most asinine scenario I have ever heard. I'm in danger, but don't send a cop of another color.
Brother, my scenario is trying to protect you from racist cops.

Hire more cops, make them readily available. Try to figure out what to do with non-white/black citizens. This is IMO the easiest way to eliminate racism that's supposed to lead to police brutality.


So, how many black cops are you going to have to employ in Chicago and Detroit to make this happen? How you going to pay for it?
You employ enough and you make it worth it financially. Cops should be making a lot more money as is given everything they have to deal with.

If you increase pay, you likely increase the pool of cops.

I guess my question for you would be how many black cops do you employ in I guess cities you'd perceive to be more "white" than Chicago/Detroit?


If things continue at the current trajectory, it won't matter what you pay cops, we will see a decrease in the number willing to do it.

On your question, I guess you would need to find out the ratio of calls for whites versus blacks and staff accordingly. Again, this makes no sense to me but that is how I would do it.

How about routine traffic stops. If I am a white cop and I see someone going 100 in a 35, do I just ignore it?


Pull them over, check for race, if it's a different race call it in.

Then we avoid them shooting someone due to their race/skin color.
pack95
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James Henderson said:

pack95 said:

James Henderson said:

pack95 said:

James Henderson said:

pack95 said:

Packchem91 said:

James Henderson said:

Packchem91 said:

^BTW, so in the Columbus case, using James' solution...a white cop drives up on the situation...and stops, backs away, and waits for a black cop to show up? And if someone gets killed by the suspect, well, thats just the risk we take to avoid having Lebron and Biden call us racist?


No in James scenario a white cop never shows up. A black cop does and if someone gets shot than no one thinks it's because of skin color.
Well chalk me up as not wanting to live in your town. The day I have to be exposed to further danger because I have to wait for a white cop is sad beyond belief.

Just clean up the policing of people. Quit busting heads because you can. And for god's sake, don't endanger even more people to build in your layer of segregation

And for the record, I don't know if race played a part in the Floyd case or not. Only one person can say whether Chauvin would have treated me or you the same way he did Floyd given otherwise similar circumstances. I tend to agree it was just a powerhungry cop who acted badly. But I do believe with all my conviction, that there are tremendous examples of black people being singled out by police for no good reason....and believe that is likely much more prevalent than the other way around.


Ditto on not wanting to live in James' town. That may be the most asinine scenario I have ever heard. I'm in danger, but don't send a cop of another color.
Brother, my scenario is trying to protect you from racist cops.

Hire more cops, make them readily available. Try to figure out what to do with non-white/black citizens. This is IMO the easiest way to eliminate racism that's supposed to lead to police brutality.


So, how many black cops are you going to have to employ in Chicago and Detroit to make this happen? How you going to pay for it?
You employ enough and you make it worth it financially. Cops should be making a lot more money as is given everything they have to deal with.

If you increase pay, you likely increase the pool of cops.

I guess my question for you would be how many black cops do you employ in I guess cities you'd perceive to be more "white" than Chicago/Detroit?


If things continue at the current trajectory, it won't matter what you pay cops, we will see a decrease in the number willing to do it.

On your question, I guess you would need to find out the ratio of calls for whites versus blacks and staff accordingly. Again, this makes no sense to me but that is how I would do it.

How about routine traffic stops. If I am a white cop and I see someone going 100 in a 35, do I just ignore it?


Pull them over, check for race, if it's a different race call it in.

Then we avoid them shooting someone due to their race/skin color.


I see now you are being completely facetious. I gotcha now.
hokiewolf
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James Henderson said:

pack95 said:

James Henderson said:

pack95 said:

James Henderson said:

pack95 said:

Packchem91 said:

James Henderson said:

Packchem91 said:

^BTW, so in the Columbus case, using James' solution...a white cop drives up on the situation...and stops, backs away, and waits for a black cop to show up? And if someone gets killed by the suspect, well, thats just the risk we take to avoid having Lebron and Biden call us racist?


No in James scenario a white cop never shows up. A black cop does and if someone gets shot than no one thinks it's because of skin color.
Well chalk me up as not wanting to live in your town. The day I have to be exposed to further danger because I have to wait for a white cop is sad beyond belief.

Just clean up the policing of people. Quit busting heads because you can. And for god's sake, don't endanger even more people to build in your layer of segregation

And for the record, I don't know if race played a part in the Floyd case or not. Only one person can say whether Chauvin would have treated me or you the same way he did Floyd given otherwise similar circumstances. I tend to agree it was just a powerhungry cop who acted badly. But I do believe with all my conviction, that there are tremendous examples of black people being singled out by police for no good reason....and believe that is likely much more prevalent than the other way around.


Ditto on not wanting to live in James' town. That may be the most asinine scenario I have ever heard. I'm in danger, but don't send a cop of another color.
Brother, my scenario is trying to protect you from racist cops.

Hire more cops, make them readily available. Try to figure out what to do with non-white/black citizens. This is IMO the easiest way to eliminate racism that's supposed to lead to police brutality.


So, how many black cops are you going to have to employ in Chicago and Detroit to make this happen? How you going to pay for it?
You employ enough and you make it worth it financially. Cops should be making a lot more money as is given everything they have to deal with.

If you increase pay, you likely increase the pool of cops.

I guess my question for you would be how many black cops do you employ in I guess cities you'd perceive to be more "white" than Chicago/Detroit?


If things continue at the current trajectory, it won't matter what you pay cops, we will see a decrease in the number willing to do it.

On your question, I guess you would need to find out the ratio of calls for whites versus blacks and staff accordingly. Again, this makes no sense to me but that is how I would do it.

How about routine traffic stops. If I am a white cop and I see someone going 100 in a 35, do I just ignore it?


Pull them over, check for race, if it's a different race call it in.

Then we avoid them shooting someone due to their race/skin color.
what if we just got the two cops from Sanford and Son?
packgrad
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James Henderson said:

pack95 said:

James Henderson said:

pack95 said:

James Henderson said:

pack95 said:

Packchem91 said:

James Henderson said:

Packchem91 said:

^BTW, so in the Columbus case, using James' solution...a white cop drives up on the situation...and stops, backs away, and waits for a black cop to show up? And if someone gets killed by the suspect, well, thats just the risk we take to avoid having Lebron and Biden call us racist?


No in James scenario a white cop never shows up. A black cop does and if someone gets shot than no one thinks it's because of skin color.
Well chalk me up as not wanting to live in your town. The day I have to be exposed to further danger because I have to wait for a white cop is sad beyond belief.

Just clean up the policing of people. Quit busting heads because you can. And for god's sake, don't endanger even more people to build in your layer of segregation

And for the record, I don't know if race played a part in the Floyd case or not. Only one person can say whether Chauvin would have treated me or you the same way he did Floyd given otherwise similar circumstances. I tend to agree it was just a powerhungry cop who acted badly. But I do believe with all my conviction, that there are tremendous examples of black people being singled out by police for no good reason....and believe that is likely much more prevalent than the other way around.


Ditto on not wanting to live in James' town. That may be the most asinine scenario I have ever heard. I'm in danger, but don't send a cop of another color.
Brother, my scenario is trying to protect you from racist cops.

Hire more cops, make them readily available. Try to figure out what to do with non-white/black citizens. This is IMO the easiest way to eliminate racism that's supposed to lead to police brutality.


So, how many black cops are you going to have to employ in Chicago and Detroit to make this happen? How you going to pay for it?
You employ enough and you make it worth it financially. Cops should be making a lot more money as is given everything they have to deal with.

If you increase pay, you likely increase the pool of cops.

I guess my question for you would be how many black cops do you employ in I guess cities you'd perceive to be more "white" than Chicago/Detroit?


If things continue at the current trajectory, it won't matter what you pay cops, we will see a decrease in the number willing to do it.

On your question, I guess you would need to find out the ratio of calls for whites versus blacks and staff accordingly. Again, this makes no sense to me but that is how I would do it.

How about routine traffic stops. If I am a white cop and I see someone going 100 in a 35, do I just ignore it?


Pull them over, check for race, if it's a different race call it in.

Then we avoid them shooting someone due to their race/skin color.


Should probably also make sure the officer is unarmed when pulling them over, then checking to make sure the correct race, then asking if they are armed. If they are not armed, the unarmed officer can proceed. If they are armed the officer can then deescalatingly ask them to wait for an armed officer, of the correct race, to respond and continue the traffic stop.
IseWolf22
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Packchem91 said:

IseWolf22 said:

Packchem91 said:

hokiewolf said:

The current theory is that the affect on jobs by new immigration is largely on the past immigrant population. With the exception of meat packing plants and janitorial services, there is little or now affect on native born population
Thanks. Certainly it stands to reason that newcomers are going to be willing to take less $$ than experienced workers, so would see displacement. At some point though i find it difficult to believe that doesn't affect native-born -- unless the argument is they are already out of the work population? (ie, do the black "natives" in the Bluffton and HHI area no longer count in statistics because they've left the workforce due to displacement, and have jsut remained out??)
The thing is, there is no fixed amount of jobs where immigrants coming in have to displace an American worker. Does that happen on the micro/local scale? Yes. However when you look at the national economy, an immigrant increases demands for goods and services that ultimately create more jobs. A growing population with a free economy is a recipe for more jobs, more growth, and more overall wealth.
Yep --- and one way I read your point is, this is a complicated, nuanced discussion. Unfortunately, our way of consuming news, and those who speak into it (ie, politicians) rarely make way for nuance. Emotion and fear get involved, etc.

**And the above applies to policing, and frankly, every other national topic that we discuss....
Oh absolutely. In most of politics there is a lot of room for reasonable people to disagree, and a lot of room for compromise if both sides could negotiate honestly and in good faith. Unfortunately politicians would prefer to keep partisan warfare on full blast.
IseWolf22
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pineknollshoresking said:

IseWolf22 said:

pineknollshoresking said:

IseWolf22 said:

Eh, I think Republicans actually need to return to the "compassionate conservatism" espoused by Bush. Bush was awful on debt and Iraq was mismanaged at virtually every level of leadership. However, Bush was very pro-immigrant and continues to be one of the few voices on the right really sticking up for immigration. He was also the champion of PEPFAR, possibly one of the most successful foreign aid programs of all time, estimated to have saved ~19 million lives. He's still extremely popular in Africa.
Republicans are compassionate conservative!!!!!

They care about Americans first!!!!

Sorry, your misguided view on the world doesn't understand what true Republicans are. Not the retail Republican! The true Conservative Republican!!!

You are not one, so, you wouldn't know. I suggest asking questions of True Conservatives, in order to get the real understanding of the views.
Compassionate conservatism is a niche philosophy within conservatism and has not been mainstream on the right since Bush.

There is no such thing as a "True Republican", "True Conservative", "True Democrat", etc. The definitions of each change over time as evidence by Trump changing core parts of Republican orthodoxy.
Man, you really need to quit commenting on things that you have no idea about.

Trump set the stage for True Republican! McConnel, McCarthy, Chaney, and the rest are Globalist. True Republicans never had a voice until Trump came along. My points, in another post, outline True Rupublican ideas...
Your points are your own interpretation of Conservatism today. You can define things how you like but it doesn't mean that the rest of the country agrees with it.
pineknollshoresking
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hokiewolf said:

Yet Trump isnt a true Republican! He was a democrat for ever until he decided to run for President. Populist, yes, Republican no
You don't know what the Republican Party stands for. Trump is the truest Republican there is. BTW, Vernon Jones was a Democrat and now he is a fire breathing Republican.

The narrative of the Republican Party is false. People like McConnell, McCarthy, the Bush's, Cheney's, Graham's, etc... are Globalist. They are war mongers that want to keep the Military Industry moving (for their own pocket).

I think the whole thought process about what a Republican is has been coerced into something it never was for decades. Republicans have always cared about people! They also care about personal responsibility. Those two things can go hand in hand...
pineknollshoresking
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IseWolf22 said:

pineknollshoresking said:

IseWolf22 said:

pineknollshoresking said:

IseWolf22 said:

Eh, I think Republicans actually need to return to the "compassionate conservatism" espoused by Bush. Bush was awful on debt and Iraq was mismanaged at virtually every level of leadership. However, Bush was very pro-immigrant and continues to be one of the few voices on the right really sticking up for immigration. He was also the champion of PEPFAR, possibly one of the most successful foreign aid programs of all time, estimated to have saved ~19 million lives. He's still extremely popular in Africa.
Republicans are compassionate conservative!!!!!

They care about Americans first!!!!

Sorry, your misguided view on the world doesn't understand what true Republicans are. Not the retail Republican! The true Conservative Republican!!!

You are not one, so, you wouldn't know. I suggest asking questions of True Conservatives, in order to get the real understanding of the views.
Compassionate conservatism is a niche philosophy within conservatism and has not been mainstream on the right since Bush.

There is no such thing as a "True Republican", "True Conservative", "True Democrat", etc. The definitions of each change over time as evidence by Trump changing core parts of Republican orthodoxy.
Man, you really need to quit commenting on things that you have no idea about.

Trump set the stage for True Republican! McConnel, McCarthy, Chaney, and the rest are Globalist. True Republicans never had a voice until Trump came along. My points, in another post, outline True Rupublican ideas...
Your points are your own interpretation of Conservatism today. You can define things how you like but it doesn't mean that the rest of the country agrees with it.
and your post is your own interpretation... I'm not defining anything for you or anybody else. I'm probably far more tuned into true conservative Republican's than you; therefore, I'm regurgitating what is being said nationally, not exclusively my interpretation.

Sometimes people on here just type (in other words speak) too much...
James Henderson
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Staff
hokiewolf said:

James Henderson said:

pack95 said:

James Henderson said:

pack95 said:

James Henderson said:

pack95 said:

Packchem91 said:

James Henderson said:

Packchem91 said:

^BTW, so in the Columbus case, using James' solution...a white cop drives up on the situation...and stops, backs away, and waits for a black cop to show up? And if someone gets killed by the suspect, well, thats just the risk we take to avoid having Lebron and Biden call us racist?


No in James scenario a white cop never shows up. A black cop does and if someone gets shot than no one thinks it's because of skin color.
Well chalk me up as not wanting to live in your town. The day I have to be exposed to further danger because I have to wait for a white cop is sad beyond belief.

Just clean up the policing of people. Quit busting heads because you can. And for god's sake, don't endanger even more people to build in your layer of segregation

And for the record, I don't know if race played a part in the Floyd case or not. Only one person can say whether Chauvin would have treated me or you the same way he did Floyd given otherwise similar circumstances. I tend to agree it was just a powerhungry cop who acted badly. But I do believe with all my conviction, that there are tremendous examples of black people being singled out by police for no good reason....and believe that is likely much more prevalent than the other way around.


Ditto on not wanting to live in James' town. That may be the most asinine scenario I have ever heard. I'm in danger, but don't send a cop of another color.
Brother, my scenario is trying to protect you from racist cops.

Hire more cops, make them readily available. Try to figure out what to do with non-white/black citizens. This is IMO the easiest way to eliminate racism that's supposed to lead to police brutality.


So, how many black cops are you going to have to employ in Chicago and Detroit to make this happen? How you going to pay for it?
You employ enough and you make it worth it financially. Cops should be making a lot more money as is given everything they have to deal with.

If you increase pay, you likely increase the pool of cops.

I guess my question for you would be how many black cops do you employ in I guess cities you'd perceive to be more "white" than Chicago/Detroit?


If things continue at the current trajectory, it won't matter what you pay cops, we will see a decrease in the number willing to do it.

On your question, I guess you would need to find out the ratio of calls for whites versus blacks and staff accordingly. Again, this makes no sense to me but that is how I would do it.

How about routine traffic stops. If I am a white cop and I see someone going 100 in a 35, do I just ignore it?


Pull them over, check for race, if it's a different race call it in.

Then we avoid them shooting someone due to their race/skin color.
what if we just got the two cops from Sanford and Son?
Would be perfect, but have to let each handle their own color to prevent any real issues.

James Henderson
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Staff
pack95 said:

James Henderson said:

pack95 said:

James Henderson said:

pack95 said:

James Henderson said:

pack95 said:

Packchem91 said:

James Henderson said:

Packchem91 said:

^BTW, so in the Columbus case, using James' solution...a white cop drives up on the situation...and stops, backs away, and waits for a black cop to show up? And if someone gets killed by the suspect, well, thats just the risk we take to avoid having Lebron and Biden call us racist?


No in James scenario a white cop never shows up. A black cop does and if someone gets shot than no one thinks it's because of skin color.
Well chalk me up as not wanting to live in your town. The day I have to be exposed to further danger because I have to wait for a white cop is sad beyond belief.

Just clean up the policing of people. Quit busting heads because you can. And for god's sake, don't endanger even more people to build in your layer of segregation

And for the record, I don't know if race played a part in the Floyd case or not. Only one person can say whether Chauvin would have treated me or you the same way he did Floyd given otherwise similar circumstances. I tend to agree it was just a powerhungry cop who acted badly. But I do believe with all my conviction, that there are tremendous examples of black people being singled out by police for no good reason....and believe that is likely much more prevalent than the other way around.


Ditto on not wanting to live in James' town. That may be the most asinine scenario I have ever heard. I'm in danger, but don't send a cop of another color.
Brother, my scenario is trying to protect you from racist cops.

Hire more cops, make them readily available. Try to figure out what to do with non-white/black citizens. This is IMO the easiest way to eliminate racism that's supposed to lead to police brutality.


So, how many black cops are you going to have to employ in Chicago and Detroit to make this happen? How you going to pay for it?
You employ enough and you make it worth it financially. Cops should be making a lot more money as is given everything they have to deal with.

If you increase pay, you likely increase the pool of cops.

I guess my question for you would be how many black cops do you employ in I guess cities you'd perceive to be more "white" than Chicago/Detroit?


If things continue at the current trajectory, it won't matter what you pay cops, we will see a decrease in the number willing to do it.

On your question, I guess you would need to find out the ratio of calls for whites versus blacks and staff accordingly. Again, this makes no sense to me but that is how I would do it.

How about routine traffic stops. If I am a white cop and I see someone going 100 in a 35, do I just ignore it?


Pull them over, check for race, if it's a different race call it in.

Then we avoid them shooting someone due to their race/skin color.


I see now you are being completely facetious. I gotcha now.
Yes, I am to a degree, but really am I?

Seriously, if people think racism is why cops are in these situations, shouldn't we try to find a way to solve that?

Of course, I just think 99% of the time it's due to split decisions needing to be made and often, cops make mistakes too, like us in our jobs. Unfortunately, they don't get do-overs like we often do.

Think about the guy this week who shot the 16-year old girl. That has to be haunting him right now, but some folks want to think he did that because she was black and he's white? That's crazy to me.
pineknollshoresking
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Where are the people like this? Civ, Isle, Hokie...

Dean Alfange, a progressive and labor activist, wrote the following 163 words as first published in Reader's Digest in 1952:

"I do not choose to be a common man. It is my right to be uncommon. I seek to develop whatever talents God gave menot security. I do not wish to be a kept citizen, humbled and dulled by having the state look after me. I want to take the calculated risk; to dream and to build, to fail and to succeed. I refuse to barter incentive for a dole. I prefer the challenges of life to the guaranteed existence; the thrill of fulfillment to the stale calm of utopia. I will not trade freedom for beneficence nor my dignity for a handout. I will never cower before any earthly master nor bend to any threat. It is my heritage to stand erect, proud and unafraid; to think and act myself, enjoy the benefit of my creations and to face the world boldly and say 'This, with God's help, I have done.' All this is what it means to be an American."
pineknollshoresking
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James Henderson said:

pack95 said:

James Henderson said:

pack95 said:

James Henderson said:

pack95 said:

James Henderson said:

pack95 said:

Packchem91 said:

James Henderson said:

Packchem91 said:

^BTW, so in the Columbus case, using James' solution...a white cop drives up on the situation...and stops, backs away, and waits for a black cop to show up? And if someone gets killed by the suspect, well, thats just the risk we take to avoid having Lebron and Biden call us racist?


No in James scenario a white cop never shows up. A black cop does and if someone gets shot than no one thinks it's because of skin color.
Well chalk me up as not wanting to live in your town. The day I have to be exposed to further danger because I have to wait for a white cop is sad beyond belief.

Just clean up the policing of people. Quit busting heads because you can. And for god's sake, don't endanger even more people to build in your layer of segregation

And for the record, I don't know if race played a part in the Floyd case or not. Only one person can say whether Chauvin would have treated me or you the same way he did Floyd given otherwise similar circumstances. I tend to agree it was just a powerhungry cop who acted badly. But I do believe with all my conviction, that there are tremendous examples of black people being singled out by police for no good reason....and believe that is likely much more prevalent than the other way around.


Ditto on not wanting to live in James' town. That may be the most asinine scenario I have ever heard. I'm in danger, but don't send a cop of another color.
Brother, my scenario is trying to protect you from racist cops.

Hire more cops, make them readily available. Try to figure out what to do with non-white/black citizens. This is IMO the easiest way to eliminate racism that's supposed to lead to police brutality.


So, how many black cops are you going to have to employ in Chicago and Detroit to make this happen? How you going to pay for it?
You employ enough and you make it worth it financially. Cops should be making a lot more money as is given everything they have to deal with.

If you increase pay, you likely increase the pool of cops.

I guess my question for you would be how many black cops do you employ in I guess cities you'd perceive to be more "white" than Chicago/Detroit?


If things continue at the current trajectory, it won't matter what you pay cops, we will see a decrease in the number willing to do it.

On your question, I guess you would need to find out the ratio of calls for whites versus blacks and staff accordingly. Again, this makes no sense to me but that is how I would do it.

How about routine traffic stops. If I am a white cop and I see someone going 100 in a 35, do I just ignore it?


Pull them over, check for race, if it's a different race call it in.

Then we avoid them shooting someone due to their race/skin color.


I see now you are being completely facetious. I gotcha now.
Yes, I am to a degree, but really am I?

Seriously, if people think racism is why cops are in these situations, shouldn't we try to find a way to solve that?

Of course, I just think 99% of the time it's due to split decisions needing to be made and often, cops make mistakes too, like us in our jobs. Unfortunately, they don't get do-overs like we often do.

Think about the guy this week who shot the 16-year old girl. That has to be haunting him right now, but some folks want to think he did that because she was black and he's white? That's crazy to me.
This is a horrible situation! Think if this Police Officer just watched the girl kill the other girl with her knife. Would that have been racist because the other girl was black also?

Hindsight... let them kill each other!!! He would not be a racist!! I would have said the situation was too hot to intervene.
packgrad
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If they get rid of qualified immunity, that is exactly what will happen moving forward.
hokiewolf
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pineknollshoresking said:

Where are the people like this? Civ, Isle, Hokie...

Dean Alfange, a progressive and labor activist, wrote the following 163 words as first published in Reader's Digest in 1952:

"I do not choose to be a common man. It is my right to be uncommon. I seek to develop whatever talents God gave menot security. I do not wish to be a kept citizen, humbled and dulled by having the state look after me. I want to take the calculated risk; to dream and to build, to fail and to succeed. I refuse to barter incentive for a dole. I prefer the challenges of life to the guaranteed existence; the thrill of fulfillment to the stale calm of utopia. I will not trade freedom for beneficence nor my dignity for a handout. I will never cower before any earthly master nor bend to any threat. It is my heritage to stand erect, proud and unafraid; to think and act myself, enjoy the benefit of my creations and to face the world boldly and say 'This, with God's help, I have done.' All this is what it means to be an American."
they're certainly not in politics bother
pineknollshoresking
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packgrad said:

If they get rid of qualified immunity, that is exactly what will happen moving forward.
I agree with you... People don't truly understand the reaction to an action.
pineknollshoresking
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hokiewolf said:

pineknollshoresking said:

Where are the people like this? Civ, Isle, Hokie...

Dean Alfange, a progressive and labor activist, wrote the following 163 words as first published in Reader's Digest in 1952:

"I do not choose to be a common man. It is my right to be uncommon. I seek to develop whatever talents God gave menot security. I do not wish to be a kept citizen, humbled and dulled by having the state look after me. I want to take the calculated risk; to dream and to build, to fail and to succeed. I refuse to barter incentive for a dole. I prefer the challenges of life to the guaranteed existence; the thrill of fulfillment to the stale calm of utopia. I will not trade freedom for beneficence nor my dignity for a handout. I will never cower before any earthly master nor bend to any threat. It is my heritage to stand erect, proud and unafraid; to think and act myself, enjoy the benefit of my creations and to face the world boldly and say 'This, with God's help, I have done.' All this is what it means to be an American."
they're certainly not in politics bother
I question a lot on this board as well...
hokiewolf
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Well if you think I think government is the answer then you have the wrong impression of my beliefs. I just don't have as hard lined a stance on some issues that wouldn't make me a true conservative
pineknollshoresking
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hokiewolf said:

Well if you think I think government is the answer then you have the wrong impression of my beliefs. I just don't have as hard lined a stance on some issues that wouldn't make me a true conservative
I didn't call anybody out specifically...

While you're at it... what policy believe, do you have, that would differentiate you from a so called hard-lined?
hokiewolf
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pineknollshoresking said:

hokiewolf said:

Well if you think I think government is the answer then you have the wrong impression of my beliefs. I just don't have as hard lined a stance on some issues that wouldn't make me a true conservative
I didn't call anybody out specifically...

While you're at it... what policy believe, do you have, that would differentiate you from a so called hard-lined?
1. End the drug war
2. Change the thinking with respect to sentencing and prison. People need to be able to have a way out of the system to reduce the amount of repeat offenders, especially non violent offenders
3. There's nothing wrong with having a public school system, but the system has been distorted by self interest of teachers unions, administrators, school boards, and politicians where actual education of kids is no longer the priority and also eliminate the dept of education
4. Community college should be free for anyone who is going to learn a trade.
5. Income tax should be eliminated and a consumption tax be put in its place.
6. government should be out of the student loan game
ncsualum05
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James Henderson said:

pack95 said:

James Henderson said:

pack95 said:

James Henderson said:

pack95 said:

James Henderson said:

pack95 said:

Packchem91 said:

James Henderson said:

Packchem91 said:

^BTW, so in the Columbus case, using James' solution...a white cop drives up on the situation...and stops, backs away, and waits for a black cop to show up? And if someone gets killed by the suspect, well, thats just the risk we take to avoid having Lebron and Biden call us racist?


No in James scenario a white cop never shows up. A black cop does and if someone gets shot than no one thinks it's because of skin color.
Well chalk me up as not wanting to live in your town. The day I have to be exposed to further danger because I have to wait for a white cop is sad beyond belief.

Just clean up the policing of people. Quit busting heads because you can. And for god's sake, don't endanger even more people to build in your layer of segregation

And for the record, I don't know if race played a part in the Floyd case or not. Only one person can say whether Chauvin would have treated me or you the same way he did Floyd given otherwise similar circumstances. I tend to agree it was just a powerhungry cop who acted badly. But I do believe with all my conviction, that there are tremendous examples of black people being singled out by police for no good reason....and believe that is likely much more prevalent than the other way around.


Ditto on not wanting to live in James' town. That may be the most asinine scenario I have ever heard. I'm in danger, but don't send a cop of another color.
Brother, my scenario is trying to protect you from racist cops.

Hire more cops, make them readily available. Try to figure out what to do with non-white/black citizens. This is IMO the easiest way to eliminate racism that's supposed to lead to police brutality.


So, how many black cops are you going to have to employ in Chicago and Detroit to make this happen? How you going to pay for it?
You employ enough and you make it worth it financially. Cops should be making a lot more money as is given everything they have to deal with.

If you increase pay, you likely increase the pool of cops.

I guess my question for you would be how many black cops do you employ in I guess cities you'd perceive to be more "white" than Chicago/Detroit?


If things continue at the current trajectory, it won't matter what you pay cops, we will see a decrease in the number willing to do it.

On your question, I guess you would need to find out the ratio of calls for whites versus blacks and staff accordingly. Again, this makes no sense to me but that is how I would do it.

How about routine traffic stops. If I am a white cop and I see someone going 100 in a 35, do I just ignore it?


Pull them over, check for race, if it's a different race call it in.

Then we avoid them shooting someone due to their race/skin color.


I see now you are being completely facetious. I gotcha now.
Yes, I am to a degree, but really am I?

Seriously, if people think racism is why cops are in these situations, shouldn't we try to find a way to solve that?

Of course, I just think 99% of the time it's due to split decisions needing to be made and often, cops make mistakes too, like us in our jobs. Unfortunately, they don't get do-overs like we often do.

Think about the guy this week who shot the 16-year old girl. That has to be haunting him right now, but some folks want to think he did that because she was black and he's white? That's crazy to me.
Whether or not you're being facetious I can blow a hole through this theory. It won't help because the crazies will STILL view it as a race hate murder even if a black cop shoots a black suspect. Case and point....

Charlotte in 2016... Keith Lamont Scott had a weapon and was shot by a black police officer. BLM riots ensued in Charlotte back then.
pineknollshoresking
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hokiewolf said:

pineknollshoresking said:

hokiewolf said:

Well if you think I think government is the answer then you have the wrong impression of my beliefs. I just don't have as hard lined a stance on some issues that wouldn't make me a true conservative
I didn't call anybody out specifically...

While you're at it... what policy believe, do you have, that would differentiate you from a so called hard-lined?
1. End the drug war
2. Change the thinking with respect to sentencing and prison. People need to be able to have a way out of the system to reduce the amount of repeat offenders, especially non violent offenders
3. There's nothing wrong with having a public school system, but the system has been distorted by self interest of teachers unions, administrators, school boards, and politicians where actual education of kids is no longer the priority and also eliminate the dept of education
4. Community college should be free for anyone who is going to learn a trade.
5. Income tax should be eliminated and a consumption tax be put in its place.
6. government should be out of the student loan game

1. End the drug war - I can probable get onboard with some of this. Give more context.
2. Change the thinking with respect to sentencing and prison. People need to be able to have a way out of the system to reduce the amount of repeat offenders, especially non violent offenders. Trump was all in favor of this.
3. There's nothing wrong with having a public school system, but the system has been distorted by self interest of teachers unions, administrators, school boards, and politicians where actual education of kids is no longer the priority and also eliminate the dept of education. Completely agree. Thats why more people are going home and/or private schools. What about the voucher program?
4. Community college should be free for anyone who is going to learn a trade. I'm never a proponent of free! How would you handle the same challenges to point 3 above?
5. Income tax should be eliminated and a consumption tax be put in its place. Sold!
6. government should be out of the student loan game Sold!

Looks like we have common ground. Let's rally together to change the political structure moving forward. BTW, you may get a current Democratic Politician to support one of those points. Republicans, in general, will support 1, 2, 3 and 5.
Packchem91
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hokiewolf said:

pineknollshoresking said:

hokiewolf said:

Well if you think I think government is the answer then you have the wrong impression of my beliefs. I just don't have as hard lined a stance on some issues that wouldn't make me a true conservative
I didn't call anybody out specifically...

While you're at it... what policy believe, do you have, that would differentiate you from a so called hard-lined?
1. End the drug war
2. Change the thinking with respect to sentencing and prison. People need to be able to have a way out of the system to reduce the amount of repeat offenders, especially non violent offenders
3. There's nothing wrong with having a public school system, but the system has been distorted by self interest of teachers unions, administrators, school boards, and politicians where actual education of kids is no longer the priority and also eliminate the dept of education
4. Community college should be free for anyone who is going to learn a trade.
5. Income tax should be eliminated and a consumption tax be put in its place.
6. government should be out of the student loan game

This last one is a great example of the strange bedfellows where politics and making $$ collide. Colleges - the most liberal bastion of our society (some may argue ESPN is worse ) -- have seen record growth and its difficult to pass a college (at least in the Carolinas) where major construction is underway. Beautiful, state-of-the-art, expensive dorms being built, some private, some public.
Increased enrollments, hugely increased tuitions, but so much financed by the government, that it just self-perpetuates....even though many of the people going now really have no business, or would be significantly better served in a trade/community college.
And ultimately, if the Dems get their way, a lot of that debt will be forgiven (but the colleges still got all their $$$).
Packchem91
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James Henderson said:

pack95 said:

James Henderson said:

pack95 said:

James Henderson said:

pack95 said:

James Henderson said:

pack95 said:

Packchem91 said:

James Henderson said:

Packchem91 said:

^BTW, so in the Columbus case, using James' solution...a white cop drives up on the situation...and stops, backs away, and waits for a black cop to show up? And if someone gets killed by the suspect, well, thats just the risk we take to avoid having Lebron and Biden call us racist?


No in James scenario a white cop never shows up. A black cop does and if someone gets shot than no one thinks it's because of skin color.
Well chalk me up as not wanting to live in your town. The day I have to be exposed to further danger because I have to wait for a white cop is sad beyond belief.

Just clean up the policing of people. Quit busting heads because you can. And for god's sake, don't endanger even more people to build in your layer of segregation

And for the record, I don't know if race played a part in the Floyd case or not. Only one person can say whether Chauvin would have treated me or you the same way he did Floyd given otherwise similar circumstances. I tend to agree it was just a powerhungry cop who acted badly. But I do believe with all my conviction, that there are tremendous examples of black people being singled out by police for no good reason....and believe that is likely much more prevalent than the other way around.


Ditto on not wanting to live in James' town. That may be the most asinine scenario I have ever heard. I'm in danger, but don't send a cop of another color.
Brother, my scenario is trying to protect you from racist cops.

Hire more cops, make them readily available. Try to figure out what to do with non-white/black citizens. This is IMO the easiest way to eliminate racism that's supposed to lead to police brutality.


So, how many black cops are you going to have to employ in Chicago and Detroit to make this happen? How you going to pay for it?
You employ enough and you make it worth it financially. Cops should be making a lot more money as is given everything they have to deal with.

If you increase pay, you likely increase the pool of cops.

I guess my question for you would be how many black cops do you employ in I guess cities you'd perceive to be more "white" than Chicago/Detroit?


If things continue at the current trajectory, it won't matter what you pay cops, we will see a decrease in the number willing to do it.

On your question, I guess you would need to find out the ratio of calls for whites versus blacks and staff accordingly. Again, this makes no sense to me but that is how I would do it.

How about routine traffic stops. If I am a white cop and I see someone going 100 in a 35, do I just ignore it?


Pull them over, check for race, if it's a different race call it in.

Then we avoid them shooting someone due to their race/skin color.


I see now you are being completely facetious. I gotcha now.
Yes, I am to a degree, but really am I?

Seriously, if people think racism is why cops are in these situations, shouldn't we try to find a way to solve that?

Of course, I just think 99% of the time it's due to split decisions needing to be made and often, cops make mistakes too, like us in our jobs. Unfortunately, they don't get do-overs like we often do.

Think about the guy this week who shot the 16-year old girl. That has to be haunting him right now, but some folks want to think he did that because she was black and he's white? That's crazy to me.
I think your argument is missing the point --- black people are angry because A cop killed another black person. Sure, the color of the cop may add some more fuel, but I think they are angry with the institution as much as anything.

You think putting a guy who happens to look like the people who live in these communities --- but then having them police in the same aggressive ways -- is going to calm things down? The argument is that the institution (policing) is biased -- the people who do it are just tools of the system.

I think if Chauvin had been black, still would ahve been burning in MPLS, and folks would still have been itching to see him fry for his actions. Now...it would absolutely not have played as well on TV, for sure.
But black people I've spoken to are more mad at "the system".


pineknollshoresking
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you all should watch this...

https://populist.press/feds-exposed-in-leading-deadly-ambush-on-nm-cop/
Mormad
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pineknollshoresking said:

you all should watch this...

https://populist.press/feds-exposed-in-leading-deadly-ambush-on-nm-cop/



That's just disturbing

I did a quick Google search: Michigan law review did a paper looking at attacks on policemen during traffic stops over a 10 yr period in Florida. Their conclusion, like our conclusion about the rarity of civilian deaths at the hands of cops, was that attacks on police were exceedingly rare events. They said that police were killed in such traffic stops 1 out of every 6.5 million incidents, severely injured in 1 of every 361,111, and assaulted with or without injury in 1 of every 6959 traffic stops.

Another search estimated that there are around 32,000,000 traffic stops per yr.

So does that mean that it can be estimated that 4600 cops are assaulted during supposed non violent traffic stops per yr, 88 are severely injured, and 5 are killed? With something as routine as a traffic stop? And that's only traffic stops. That makes the number of people shot by cops every yr seem astoundingly low imho. That means cops show remarkable restraint in situations in which they're assaulted in some manner, or they're jumped way too often without a chance to react.

That's a lot of assaulted cops. Not sure the Michigan law review understands "exceedingly low."
ncsualum05
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pineknollshoresking said:

hokiewolf said:

pineknollshoresking said:

hokiewolf said:

Well if you think I think government is the answer then you have the wrong impression of my beliefs. I just don't have as hard lined a stance on some issues that wouldn't make me a true conservative
I didn't call anybody out specifically...

While you're at it... what policy believe, do you have, that would differentiate you from a so called hard-lined?
1. End the drug war
2. Change the thinking with respect to sentencing and prison. People need to be able to have a way out of the system to reduce the amount of repeat offenders, especially non violent offenders
3. There's nothing wrong with having a public school system, but the system has been distorted by self interest of teachers unions, administrators, school boards, and politicians where actual education of kids is no longer the priority and also eliminate the dept of education
4. Community college should be free for anyone who is going to learn a trade.
5. Income tax should be eliminated and a consumption tax be put in its place.
6. government should be out of the student loan game

1. End the drug war - I can probable get onboard with some of this. Give more context.
2. Change the thinking with respect to sentencing and prison. People need to be able to have a way out of the system to reduce the amount of repeat offenders, especially non violent offenders. Trump was all in favor of this.
3. There's nothing wrong with having a public school system, but the system has been distorted by self interest of teachers unions, administrators, school boards, and politicians where actual education of kids is no longer the priority and also eliminate the dept of education. Completely agree. Thats why more people are going home and/or private schools. What about the voucher program?
4. Community college should be free for anyone who is going to learn a trade. I'm never a proponent of free! How would you handle the same challenges to point 3 above?
5. Income tax should be eliminated and a consumption tax be put in its place. Sold!
6. government should be out of the student loan game Sold!

Looks like we have common ground. Let's rally together to change the political structure moving forward. BTW, you may get a current Democratic Politician to support one of those points. Republicans, in general, will support 1, 2, 3 and 5.
Hokie's points sounds like he could find a lot of common ground with America First agenda.
IseWolf22
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pineknollshoresking said:

Where are the people like this? Civ, Isle, Hokie...

Dean Alfange, a progressive and labor activist, wrote the following 163 words as first published in Reader's Digest in 1952:

"I do not choose to be a common man. It is my right to be uncommon. I seek to develop whatever talents God gave menot security. I do not wish to be a kept citizen, humbled and dulled by having the state look after me. I want to take the calculated risk; to dream and to build, to fail and to succeed. I refuse to barter incentive for a dole. I prefer the challenges of life to the guaranteed existence; the thrill of fulfillment to the stale calm of utopia. I will not trade freedom for beneficence nor my dignity for a handout. I will never cower before any earthly master nor bend to any threat. It is my heritage to stand erect, proud and unafraid; to think and act myself, enjoy the benefit of my creations and to face the world boldly and say 'This, with God's help, I have done.' All this is what it means to be an American."
I'm not sure why you think this applies to me. On the vast majority of issues I'm for little to no intervention from the state. The things we generally argue about are areas where conservatives want more state power and not less. I'd argue I'm one of the biggest proponents of small government on this board.
 
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