Minnesota Officer Who Shot Daunte Wright Meant to Fire Taser

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cowboypack02
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In reply to Civilized • 8:05a, 4/21/21
Civilized said:
The court system worked. The mob did not mete out justice, the court system did.

And, Chauvin's actions were a flash point for mass calls for racial justice and police accountability.

Both were true.

Masses of people demonstrating that they wanted justice in the courts both for this case and for police accountability in general does not mean that what transpired was mob justice.



I can find a DA to charge you with something that requires a jury and then apply pressure to the jury until they find you guilty of it. I wouldn't call that justice...even if you are guilty of whatever you were charged with.

The same thing happened here. There was a threat of violence by the mob if the jury didn't come back with a certain verdict. A mob applied undue pressure to a jury and they voted a certain way. I'm not saying that they would of come back differently if there had been no outside pressure because I don't know but I think it's silly to think that the jury didn't feel pressured to make a certain decision. Are we ok with that pressure being applied to other cases....I'm not
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cowboypack02
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In reply to James Henderson • 8:06a, 4/21/21
I agree with you here James.

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packgrad
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In reply to James Henderson • 8:21a, 4/21/21
James Henderson said:
dogplasma said:
BBW12OG said:
dogplasma said:
Pelosi: :/

The person to thank is the person that shot the video. Without that, what would have been the chances that Chauvin would have been convicted for his crime? Much less, IMO.
By that rationale just imagine had George Floyd had not been hopped up on Fentanyl, Meth and attempted to pass counterfeit money. And when he was first approached imagine if he would have cooperated with the police.

We can "what if" this to death. Chauvin is guilty. He is in jail and will be there for a long time.

Making George Floyd the face of justice is about as stupid as a thing to say as you can get.

I expect nothing less from the party that had Bill Clinton as speaker for an Empowerment Conference for Women and Girls......

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/kamala-harris-bill-clinton-touting-girls-empowerment-together-bad-joke-ncna1261977

Again just when you think the lefties have out-stupided themselves you get a "hold my beer" moment when the next idiot jumps up to out do the previous idiot.

Good thing they don't seem to have a problem with idiots on the bench ready to step up and grab the spotlight.

Enjoy lefties.... 1 year and 8 months it will all be over.
A person doesn't need to be a saint to deserve justice or be the face of justice. The man had his neck crushed for nine minutes despite his pleas and the pleas of bystanders. Members of Chauvin's own force said he wasn't following protocol. This is exactly what black America has been angry and scared about for decades. I personally don't see this as a right vs left issue but I'm sure that's probably naive.
I think it's a bad cop issue just as much as a white or black issue, and that's coming from a non-white/non-black person.

Bad cops who stink at their job need to be held accountable, period.



Those cops I don't believe were ever held accountable for these actions, which IMO is sad.


And that's a reasonable take. Unfortunately the party in power uses this to push a narrative that POC are unlikely to live through police interactions. Which is stupid. It's not about driving effectual change. It's about driving narratives.


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caryking
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8:56a, 4/21/21
It's never enough... here are some things to consider:

  • Chouvan had his knee on Floyd's neck a long time
  • We don't know, for sure, if that killed him
  • Was the knee, in the neck, a contributor to his death? I think most people would say yes
  • Was all the drugs, in his system, a contributor to his death? I think most people would say, probably
  • Was he resisting arrest, prior to the knee? Yes

All of this does not make a difference. I think it's clear, he did not follow protocols in this arrest. Now, how we deal with all this, in court, is something that happened, whether fairly or not.
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BBW12OG
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In reply to cowboypack02 • 9:08a, 4/21/21
cowboypack02 said:
I agree with you here James.

I do as well. There are good cops and bad cops all across this country of every race. When they break the law or department procedures they should be held accountable. It is however more than that.

In Detroit where the population is 80% black and the police force is as well guess what the people scream there?

The same exact thing they do in other cities. They call the cops "racist pigs," "Uncle Toms," and every other name that I won't put on here.

I think it is more of a cultural obstacle to overcome than it is a police officer problem. Until the black community comes together to work with the law enforcement departments it will always be them vs. us mentality.

Remember, "snitches get stitches..." Even if they know where a murderer, thief, rapist etc.... is most of them won't call the cops.

That type of mindset leads to the problems they have and have always had in their communities.
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Civilized
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In reply to cowboypack02 • 9:27a, 4/21/21
cowboypack02 said:
Civilized said:
The court system worked. The mob did not mete out justice, the court system did.

And, Chauvin's actions were a flash point for mass calls for racial justice and police accountability.

Both were true.

Masses of people demonstrating that they wanted justice in the courts both for this case and for police accountability in general does not mean that what transpired was mob justice.



I can find a DA to charge you with something that requires a jury and then apply pressure to the jury until they find you guilty of it. I wouldn't call that justice...even if you are guilty of whatever you were charged with.

The same thing happened here. There was a threat of violence by the mob if the jury didn't come back with a certain verdict. A mob applied undue pressure to a jury and they voted a certain way. I'm not saying that they would of come back differently if there had been no outside pressure because I don't know but I think it's silly to think that the jury didn't feel pressured to make a certain decision. Are we ok with that pressure being applied to other cases....I'm not

How specifically did a mob "apply undue pressure" to this jury?

This jury was always going to be under mountainous pressure given the importance of this verdict.

This decision by the jury was monumentally important and a tremendous amount of pressure goes along with that regardless. The decision was always going to be scrutinized by hundreds of millions. There's no avoiding that pressure in a case like this, the scrutiny that comes with it, or the questions that arise if a verdict is rendered that does not seem to be in accordance with the evidence presented.

Would a lot of people in this country have been very angry if Chauvin was acquitted on all charges? Unquestionably.

But the probability of significant anger at that prospective outcome is directly correlated with the inescapable video evidence of Chauvin clearly committing manslaughter or murder. This isn't a case where evidence was scant and the jury was somehow coerced into making a decision that the evidence did not support because they were fearful. If Chauvin was acquitted, people would've been pissed, and they should've been pissed because it would have been a clear case of a cop the whole world saw on video unnecessarily killing George Floyd not getting the justice he deserved.

Should Biden and Waters have used more discretion? Absolutely.

Will their comments leading up to the verdict prove viable grounds for an appeal? I have no idea but this case was always going to be appealed with or without their unnecessary and imprudent commentary.
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Civilized
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In reply to James Henderson • 9:31a, 4/21/21
James Henderson said:

Bad cops who stink at their job need to be held accountable, period.

No doubt.

Problem is, the system is set up to not hold bad cops accountable. Very, very few cops face significant punishment for their bad and sometimes life-ending actions in the line of duty.

Also, we have to be careful to not be myopic with this.

If it happens once or twice, maybe it's a couple of bad cops. If cops kill 1000 Americans year year, between three and 60 times more than other first world nations do, we have to stop talking about individual bad actors and look at how we police more broadly.

1000 deaths a year when other countries kill far fewer of their citizens is not a bad cop problem, that's a systemic problem with the way we police.
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BBW12OG
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In reply to Civilized • 9:49a, 4/21/21
Always quick to blame the cops.

Where does the "self accountability" equation come into play with the left?

Honestly comparing our country to London, Italy or any other country is a false flag argument.

You break the laws there your ass is going to jail. They enforce the laws they have on the books and do so without Due Process.

You want us to be like those countries then fine. We incarcerate and punish like those countries.

We have something called the Constitution that the left has routinely attacked, wants to erase and wants to completely rewrite.

Good luck with that.

Always blaming the cops and not the perpetrators has gotten us to where we are today.

You had the 3rd most powerful person in the country call a convicted felon who was high a drug cocktail the second coming of Jesus Christ on national TV yesterday and the sad part about it is probably half the country bought into it.

He didn't deserve to die but he damn sure didn't deserve to be made into a martyr and deified. That's a fact and it shows exactly what type of lawless government run society the left it pushing towards.

Quite blaming the cops for every damn thing and start holding people accountable for their own actions. This is what happens when everyone gets a participation trophy and is never told "NO" their entire lives.

I'm sure many of you on the left have shelf after shelf of those participation trophies. You show it on here daily!!!
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Civilized
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In reply to BBW12OG • 9:57a, 4/21/21
BBW12OG said:
Always quick to blame the cops.

Where does the "self accountability" equation come into play with the left?

Honestly comparing our country to London, Italy or any other country is a false flag argument.

You break the laws there your ass is going to jail. They enforce the laws they have on the books and do so without Due Process.

You want us to be like those countries then fine. We incarcerate and punish like those countries.

We have something called the Constitution that the left has routinely attacked, wants to erase and wants to completely rewrite.

Good luck with that.

Always blaming the cops and not the perpetrators has gotten us to where we are today.

You had the 3rd most powerful person in the country call a convicted felon who was high a drug cocktail the second coming of Jesus Christ on national TV yesterday and the sad part about it is probably half the country bought into it.

He didn't deserve to die but he damn sure didn't deserve to be made into a martyr and deified. That's a fact and it shows exactly what type of lawless government run society the left it pushing towards.

Quite blaming the cops for every damn thing and start holding people accountable for their own actions. This is what happens when everyone gets a participation trophy and is never told "NO" their entire lives.

I'm sure many of you on the left have shelf after shelf of those participation trophies. You show it on here daily!!!

You're not going to be able to get any traction crying about " always blaming the cops" in conjunction with a case where a cop was caught on camera murdering a suspect, and in a country where cops so rarely experience any significant repercussions from their bad actions in the line of duty.

Chauvin should've been blamed, he committed murder.

Regarding other cops being blamed, those that commit bad acts should be held responsible and not hide behind qualified immunity or other impediments to justice.
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metcalfmafia
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10:00a, 4/21/21
Do we start a new thread about the police officer in Columbia, MO saving the girl from being stabbed?
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IseWolf22
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In reply to Civilized • 10:04a, 4/21/21
Civilized said:
James Henderson said:

Bad cops who stink at their job need to be held accountable, period.

No doubt.

Problem is, the system is set up to not hold bad cops accountable. Very, very few cops face significant punishment for their bad and sometimes life-ending actions in the line of duty.

Also, we have to be careful to not be myopic with this.

If it happens once or twice, maybe it's a couple of bad cops. If cops kill 1000 Americans year year, between three and 60 times more than other first world nations do, we have to stop talking about individual bad actors and look at how we police more broadly.

1000 deaths a year when other countries kill far fewer of their citizens is not a bad cop problem, that's a systemic problem with the way we police.
Yep, this has always been about police accountability and overcriminalization to me. Officers accused, and even found guilty of misconduct almost never face consequences. That has only started to change very recently, and largely as a response to public outcry. Without that public pressure, I doubt anything would change.

The other part is overcriminalization. Conservatives here are right to point out that white people are just as likely to face violence/death as a percentage of police interactions. However, black Americans have a significantly higher amount of police interactions. That's largely the result of poverty and overcriminalization. Low level, "quality of life" crimes do not necessitate armed intervention or jail time.
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ncsualum05
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In reply to Civilized • 10:10a, 4/21/21
Civilized said:
James Henderson said:

Bad cops who stink at their job need to be held accountable, period.

No doubt.

Problem is, the system is set up to not hold bad cops accountable. Very, very few cops face significant punishment for their bad and sometimes life-ending actions in the line of duty.

Also, we have to be careful to not be myopic with this.

If it happens once or twice, maybe it's a couple of bad cops. If cops kill 1000 Americans year year, between three and 60 times more than other first world nations do, we have to stop talking about individual bad actors and look at how we police more broadly.

1000 deaths a year when other countries kill far fewer of their citizens is not a bad cop problem, that's a systemic problem with the way we police.
I must've missed something do we have 1000 deaths a year from police brutality?

I believe there are bad incidents for sure but I think the death toll from police is somewhere around 20-ish give or take in a year. Most are shootings. And most occur after someone is resisting arrest, running, and usually pulling a weapon.

Very small issue compared to crime in general and murder in major cities. Lots more shootings from citizen to citizen than police to citizen. Majority of that is black on black crime.

The destruction hailed by marxist anarchist groups like BLM have significantly contributed to the fall of America over the last year and even before that. BLM was causing trouble during Obama years when they got started. Riots have been generally in response to police shootings where once the facts came out the police were in the right. The criminals involved were made out to be sweet innocent saints and victims of police brutality. They got put on the news every day and a narrative was formed. Americans are being told lies every day.

I agree that police reforms are a good idea. Community involvement, and perhaps the way they train would be good areas to start. But I don't know the details of that b/c I've never been in law enforcement. You lose me if you go any further beyond that.
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Civilized
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In reply to ncsualum05 • 10:20a, 4/21/21
ncsualum05 said:
Civilized said:
James Henderson said:

Bad cops who stink at their job need to be held accountable, period.

No doubt.

Problem is, the system is set up to not hold bad cops accountable. Very, very few cops face significant punishment for their bad and sometimes life-ending actions in the line of duty.

Also, we have to be careful to not be myopic with this.

If it happens once or twice, maybe it's a couple of bad cops. If cops kill 1000 Americans year year, between three and 60 times more than other first world nations do, we have to stop talking about individual bad actors and look at how we police more broadly.

1000 deaths a year when other countries kill far fewer of their citizens is not a bad cop problem, that's a systemic problem with the way we police.
I must've missed something do we have 1000 deaths a year from police brutality?

I believe there are bad incidents for sure but I think the death toll from police is somewhere around 20-ish give or take in a year. Most are shootings. And most occur after someone is resisting arrest, running, and usually pulling a weapon.

Very small issue compared to crime in general and murder in major cities. Lots more shootings from citizen to citizen than police to citizen. Majority of that is black on black crime.

The destruction hailed by marxist anarchist groups like BLM have significantly contributed to the fall of America over the last year and even before that. BLM was causing trouble during Obama years when they got started. Riots have been generally in response to police shootings where once the facts came out the police were in the right. The criminals involved were made out to be sweet innocent saints and victims of police brutality. They got put on the news every day and a narrative was formed. Americans are being told lies every day.

I agree that police reforms are a good idea. Community involvement, and perhaps the way they train would be good areas to start. But I don't know the details of that b/c I've never been in law enforcement. You lose me if you go any further beyond that.

No, the US has had over 1000 deaths of the hands of police every year for several years running. That rate has been remarkably consistent year to year.

https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/
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packgrad
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In reply to ncsualum05 • 10:29a, 4/21/21
ncsualum05 said:
Civilized said:
James Henderson said:

Bad cops who stink at their job need to be held accountable, period.

No doubt.

Problem is, the system is set up to not hold bad cops accountable. Very, very few cops face significant punishment for their bad and sometimes life-ending actions in the line of duty.

Also, we have to be careful to not be myopic with this.

If it happens once or twice, maybe it's a couple of bad cops. If cops kill 1000 Americans year year, between three and 60 times more than other first world nations do, we have to stop talking about individual bad actors and look at how we police more broadly.

1000 deaths a year when other countries kill far fewer of their citizens is not a bad cop problem, that's a systemic problem with the way we police.
I must've missed something do we have 1000 deaths a year from police brutality?

I believe there are bad incidents for sure but I think the death toll from police is somewhere around 20-ish give or take in a year. Most are shootings. And most occur after someone is resisting arrest, running, and usually pulling a weapon.

Very small issue compared to crime in general and murder in major cities. Lots more shootings from citizen to citizen than police to citizen. Majority of that is black on black crime.

The destruction hailed by marxist anarchist groups like BLM have significantly contributed to the fall of America over the last year and even before that. BLM was causing trouble during Obama years when they got started. Riots have been generally in response to police shootings where once the facts came out the police were in the right. The criminals involved were made out to be sweet innocent saints and victims of police brutality. They got put on the news every day and a narrative was formed. Americans are being told lies every day.

I agree that police reforms are a good idea. Community involvement, and perhaps the way they train would be good areas to start. But I don't know the details of that b/c I've never been in law enforcement. You lose me if you go any further beyond that.


No, we don't. But it's not about fixing a problem. It's about driving a narrative. Painting with a broad brush is totally acceptable but only if it's done about certain segments of society.
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ncsualum05
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In reply to Civilized • 10:29a, 4/21/21
Civilized said:
ncsualum05 said:
Civilized said:
James Henderson said:

Bad cops who stink at their job need to be held accountable, period.

No doubt.

Problem is, the system is set up to not hold bad cops accountable. Very, very few cops face significant punishment for their bad and sometimes life-ending actions in the line of duty.

Also, we have to be careful to not be myopic with this.

If it happens once or twice, maybe it's a couple of bad cops. If cops kill 1000 Americans year year, between three and 60 times more than other first world nations do, we have to stop talking about individual bad actors and look at how we police more broadly.

1000 deaths a year when other countries kill far fewer of their citizens is not a bad cop problem, that's a systemic problem with the way we police.
I must've missed something do we have 1000 deaths a year from police brutality?

I believe there are bad incidents for sure but I think the death toll from police is somewhere around 20-ish give or take in a year. Most are shootings. And most occur after someone is resisting arrest, running, and usually pulling a weapon.

Very small issue compared to crime in general and murder in major cities. Lots more shootings from citizen to citizen than police to citizen. Majority of that is black on black crime.

The destruction hailed by marxist anarchist groups like BLM have significantly contributed to the fall of America over the last year and even before that. BLM was causing trouble during Obama years when they got started. Riots have been generally in response to police shootings where once the facts came out the police were in the right. The criminals involved were made out to be sweet innocent saints and victims of police brutality. They got put on the news every day and a narrative was formed. Americans are being told lies every day.

I agree that police reforms are a good idea. Community involvement, and perhaps the way they train would be good areas to start. But I don't know the details of that b/c I've never been in law enforcement. You lose me if you go any further beyond that.

No, the US has had over 1000 deaths of the hands of police every year for several years running. That rate has been remarkably consistent year to year.

https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/
My mistake. Wasn't sure about the total number... that can't be shootings though. Still a small number compared to murder and crime in general which is going up exponentially now. Police reform should happen but also requires communities to do their part. It has to be a 2 way street.
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IseWolf22
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In reply to ncsualum05 • 10:43a, 4/21/21
ncsualum05 said:
Civilized said:
ncsualum05 said:
Civilized said:
James Henderson said:

Bad cops who stink at their job need to be held accountable, period.

No doubt.

Problem is, the system is set up to not hold bad cops accountable. Very, very few cops face significant punishment for their bad and sometimes life-ending actions in the line of duty.

Also, we have to be careful to not be myopic with this.

If it happens once or twice, maybe it's a couple of bad cops. If cops kill 1000 Americans year year, between three and 60 times more than other first world nations do, we have to stop talking about individual bad actors and look at how we police more broadly.

1000 deaths a year when other countries kill far fewer of their citizens is not a bad cop problem, that's a systemic problem with the way we police.
I must've missed something do we have 1000 deaths a year from police brutality?

I believe there are bad incidents for sure but I think the death toll from police is somewhere around 20-ish give or take in a year. Most are shootings. And most occur after someone is resisting arrest, running, and usually pulling a weapon.

Very small issue compared to crime in general and murder in major cities. Lots more shootings from citizen to citizen than police to citizen. Majority of that is black on black crime.

The destruction hailed by marxist anarchist groups like BLM have significantly contributed to the fall of America over the last year and even before that. BLM was causing trouble during Obama years when they got started. Riots have been generally in response to police shootings where once the facts came out the police were in the right. The criminals involved were made out to be sweet innocent saints and victims of police brutality. They got put on the news every day and a narrative was formed. Americans are being told lies every day.

I agree that police reforms are a good idea. Community involvement, and perhaps the way they train would be good areas to start. But I don't know the details of that b/c I've never been in law enforcement. You lose me if you go any further beyond that.

No, the US has had over 1000 deaths of the hands of police every year for several years running. That rate has been remarkably consistent year to year.

https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/
My mistake. Wasn't sure about the total number... that can't be shootings though. Still a small number compared to murder and crime in general which is going up exponentially now. Police reform should happen but also requires communities to do their part. It has to be a 2 way street.
The current spike in crime is only 1 year old. We don't know if it's actually a trend, or a temporary bli right now.. Before that crime was decreasing for decades, yet deaths by police remained consistent.
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Steve Videtich
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11:15a, 4/21/21
https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/


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BBW12OG
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In reply to IseWolf22 • 11:33a, 4/21/21
IseWolf22 said:
Civilized said:
James Henderson said:

Bad cops who stink at their job need to be held accountable, period.

No doubt.

Problem is, the system is set up to not hold bad cops accountable. Very, very few cops face significant punishment for their bad and sometimes life-ending actions in the line of duty.

Also, we have to be careful to not be myopic with this.

If it happens once or twice, maybe it's a couple of bad cops. If cops kill 1000 Americans year year, between three and 60 times more than other first world nations do, we have to stop talking about individual bad actors and look at how we police more broadly.

1000 deaths a year when other countries kill far fewer of their citizens is not a bad cop problem, that's a systemic problem with the way we police.
Yep, this has always been about police accountability and overcriminalization to me. Officers accused, and even found guilty of misconduct almost never face consequences. That has only started to change very recently, and largely as a response to public outcry. Without that public pressure, I doubt anything would change.

The other part is overcriminalization. Conservatives here are right to point out that white people are just as likely to face violence/death as a percentage of police interactions. However, black Americans have a significantly higher amount of police interactions. That's largely the result of poverty and overcriminalization. Low level, "quality of life" crimes do not necessitate armed intervention or jail time.
Blacks make up roughly 13% of the population. They are responsible for 55% of all murders in this country. Here is a link to violent crime statistics. I have posted this before along with other information from the FBI crime statistics page.

You eluded to the fact that "black Americans have a significantly higher amount of police interactions." Well the statistics certainly support that statement especially when they overwhelmingly are the ones committing the violent crimes.

You use the word "overcriminalization" and I would ask you what exactly is overcriminalized about murder, robbery, assault, weapons, drug trafficking etc.....

Feel free to try and bring up marijuana charges but those for the most part have been pushed aside as the laws across many states have changed. You know what hasn't changed? Black on black murders, assaults, robberies etc.... they are going up in the inner cities because the left run cities have decided to "defund" the police in many cities.

The dog whistle you are blowing that blacks are targeted or treated differently won't work when you look at factual data. The reason they have more interactions is because they are committing the crimes.

Self accountability is something the left will never grasp. Especially when it would cost them their voting base.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/251877/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-race-ethnicity-and-gender/

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ncsualum05
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In reply to IseWolf22 • 11:35a, 4/21/21
IseWolf22 said:
ncsualum05 said:
Civilized said:
ncsualum05 said:
Civilized said:
James Henderson said:

Bad cops who stink at their job need to be held accountable, period.

No doubt.

Problem is, the system is set up to not hold bad cops accountable. Very, very few cops face significant punishment for their bad and sometimes life-ending actions in the line of duty.

Also, we have to be careful to not be myopic with this.

If it happens once or twice, maybe it's a couple of bad cops. If cops kill 1000 Americans year year, between three and 60 times more than other first world nations do, we have to stop talking about individual bad actors and look at how we police more broadly.

1000 deaths a year when other countries kill far fewer of their citizens is not a bad cop problem, that's a systemic problem with the way we police.
I must've missed something do we have 1000 deaths a year from police brutality?

I believe there are bad incidents for sure but I think the death toll from police is somewhere around 20-ish give or take in a year. Most are shootings. And most occur after someone is resisting arrest, running, and usually pulling a weapon.

Very small issue compared to crime in general and murder in major cities. Lots more shootings from citizen to citizen than police to citizen. Majority of that is black on black crime.

The destruction hailed by marxist anarchist groups like BLM have significantly contributed to the fall of America over the last year and even before that. BLM was causing trouble during Obama years when they got started. Riots have been generally in response to police shootings where once the facts came out the police were in the right. The criminals involved were made out to be sweet innocent saints and victims of police brutality. They got put on the news every day and a narrative was formed. Americans are being told lies every day.

I agree that police reforms are a good idea. Community involvement, and perhaps the way they train would be good areas to start. But I don't know the details of that b/c I've never been in law enforcement. You lose me if you go any further beyond that.

No, the US has had over 1000 deaths of the hands of police every year for several years running. That rate has been remarkably consistent year to year.

https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/
My mistake. Wasn't sure about the total number... that can't be shootings though. Still a small number compared to murder and crime in general which is going up exponentially now. Police reform should happen but also requires communities to do their part. It has to be a 2 way street.
The current spike in crime is only 1 year old. We don't know if it's actually a trend, or a temporary bli right now.. Before that crime was decreasing for decades, yet deaths by police remained consistent.
Well if we remain on the same track we are on it most definitely will become a trend. Keep demonizing police. Keep rioting, setting up lawless "zones", and keep having liberal city councils take away funding. That's all happened in the last year. It resulted in police on edge, many quitting or retiring, and a sharp increase in violence and crime. So it doesn't take a stretch to see this is going to continue if we don't stop what we're doing. You are smart enough to understand that right?
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caryking
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11:49a, 4/21/21
Cultural Marxism is the real problem!!!

You can't fix a damn thing until we root out cultural marxism!! Plain and simple!!!
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IseWolf22
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In reply to ncsualum05 • 11:53a, 4/21/21
ncsualum05 said:
IseWolf22 said:
ncsualum05 said:
Civilized said:
ncsualum05 said:
Civilized said:
James Henderson said:

Bad cops who stink at their job need to be held accountable, period.

No doubt.

Problem is, the system is set up to not hold bad cops accountable. Very, very few cops face significant punishment for their bad and sometimes life-ending actions in the line of duty.

Also, we have to be careful to not be myopic with this.

If it happens once or twice, maybe it's a couple of bad cops. If cops kill 1000 Americans year year, between three and 60 times more than other first world nations do, we have to stop talking about individual bad actors and look at how we police more broadly.

1000 deaths a year when other countries kill far fewer of their citizens is not a bad cop problem, that's a systemic problem with the way we police.
I must've missed something do we have 1000 deaths a year from police brutality?

I believe there are bad incidents for sure but I think the death toll from police is somewhere around 20-ish give or take in a year. Most are shootings. And most occur after someone is resisting arrest, running, and usually pulling a weapon.

Very small issue compared to crime in general and murder in major cities. Lots more shootings from citizen to citizen than police to citizen. Majority of that is black on black crime.

The destruction hailed by marxist anarchist groups like BLM have significantly contributed to the fall of America over the last year and even before that. BLM was causing trouble during Obama years when they got started. Riots have been generally in response to police shootings where once the facts came out the police were in the right. The criminals involved were made out to be sweet innocent saints and victims of police brutality. They got put on the news every day and a narrative was formed. Americans are being told lies every day.

I agree that police reforms are a good idea. Community involvement, and perhaps the way they train would be good areas to start. But I don't know the details of that b/c I've never been in law enforcement. You lose me if you go any further beyond that.

No, the US has had over 1000 deaths of the hands of police every year for several years running. That rate has been remarkably consistent year to year.

https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/
My mistake. Wasn't sure about the total number... that can't be shootings though. Still a small number compared to murder and crime in general which is going up exponentially now. Police reform should happen but also requires communities to do their part. It has to be a 2 way street.
The current spike in crime is only 1 year old. We don't know if it's actually a trend, or a temporary bli right now.. Before that crime was decreasing for decades, yet deaths by police remained consistent.
Well if we remain on the same track we are on it most definitely will become a trend. Keep demonizing police. Keep rioting, setting up lawless "zones", and keep having liberal city councils take away funding. That's all happened in the last year. It resulted in police on edge, many quitting or retiring, and a sharp increase in violence and crime. So it doesn't take a stretch to see this is going to continue if we don't stop what we're doing. You are smart enough to understand that right?
You're making assumptions based on 1 year of data, in what is possibly the weirdest year in the past 50. How much did Covid affect the crime rate with millions of people either out of work or out of school? IMO, crime in places like Portland likely did increase due to local DAs refusing to prosecute vandals, but that's pure speculation on my part. I'd be surprised to see more than a handful of police departments so understaffed that they can't keep the peace.

I'd actually like to see more money for police in general. "Defund the Police" was a stupid movement that made BLM lose a lot of trust. It likely drove a lot of Hispanics to the GOP in the 2020 election. More money should be used to pay officers decently and more officers overall should be hired. Training should be longer than the current Police academy, at least before you're given a gun and put out in the field. That should make people safer, but it needs to be hand in hand with other reforms around accountability and overcriminalization.
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BBW12OG
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In reply to IseWolf22 • 12:00p, 4/21/21
You have once again swung and missed.

Where are the reforms in the communities of color that account for 80%+ of all crimes in the major SOCIALIST PARTY run cities?

You don't think that with Sleepy Joe at the helm the criminals think that they have carte blanche in this country? It happens every time a lefty gets in office. Crime goes up, prisoners are released and the streets become war zones.

Not to hard to see that the left has and will always play the race card in order to get or maintain power. How about telling the people in those neighborhoods that if they "see something say something?"

Nothing says "we don't really care" like decades of lefty control and the cities are in bigger shambles now than they were before the Civil Rights Movement.

Way to go lefties... you really don't give a **** about minorities just power and exuding that power over anyone that doesn't agree with you.
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In reply to caryking • 12:06p, 4/21/21
pineknollshoresking said:
Cultural Marxism is the real problem!!!

You can't fix a damn thing until we root out cultural marxism!! Plain and simple!!!

There's not one "real problem."

Societies are very complex systems. they always have a litany of problems, and it's not unreasonable to try to solve any of them.

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Civilized
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In reply to Steve Videtich • 12:11p, 4/21/21
That's a whole lot of people shot to death by police.
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TheStorm
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In reply to Civilized • 12:18p, 4/21/21
Civilized said:
The court system worked. The mob did not mete out justice, the court system did.

And, Chauvin's actions were a flash point for mass calls for racial justice and police accountability.

Both were true.

Masses of people demonstrating that they wanted justice in the courts both for this case and for police accountability in general does not mean that what transpired was mob justice.

I am fine with the verdicts. If what he did specifically met the criteria for convictions on all three counts then justice worked - if it didn't then that's another story - but I'm fully assuming that it did, and putting him away doesn't affect me personally one way or another. I'm glad to be done with it.

I will say however that I doubt he would have been charged at all if that was a white man instead of a black man that Chauvin had his knee on... and I know damn well there wouldn't have been any "peaceful protests", free shopping trips to Target and destruction of our major cities.

Glad it's over. Can't wait for the next time. Whether it is technically mob justice or not is irrelevant in my opinion. The mob will think that their actions were the difference and therefore this type of behavior will be repeated. Over and over and over and over and over... and with Maxine Waters and Joe Biden leading the charge all the way.
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BBW12OG
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In reply to TheStorm • 12:24p, 4/21/21
Remember Dear Leader, aka as "The Great Divider", wanted nothing more nothing less than for this country to be torn apart and our democracy destroyed.

One party rule is what he wanted and he is pulling the strings in this **** show of an administration 100%.

Sleepy Joe can't work more than 3 days a week and Horizontal "Cackling Hyena" Harris is about as useless as red clay at the beach. She's more worried about curtains in her new crib than visiting the border.

Thank God the lefties will rue the day they elected these clowns in 2022 and 2024. I pray when that happens the GOP goes scorched Earth and buries that party so deep they'll never recover.

And yes, that is from a place of anger. What the lefties are trying to do to this once great country should make every real American angry.

The ones who aren't, well, they never really were true Americans anyway. You know the ones that celebrate participation trophies like they just won a Natty? We have more than a few on here.....
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BBW12OG
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12:31p, 4/21/21
Here is the tax funded NPR site reporting on the Police Officer that saved a girls life yesterday by preventing her from being stabbed by an assailant who was trying to stab her with what appears to be at least a 10" butcher's knife.

"facts reported by the media may be wrong..." But yet you ran the story and ran with the narrative that a white cop shot an unarmed 15 year old girl.....

*** lefties??? When in the hell are you going to realize that this isn't what this country needs. Some of you defending stuff like this really need help.

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Mormad
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In reply to Civilized • 12:46p, 4/21/21
Civilized said:
That's a whole lot of people shot to death by police.


It leaves me wondering what the number SHOULD be. Are we to assume that most of those shootings are justified, or unjustified? We certainly hope they are mostly justified when used in the line of duty? Common sense in me says those numbers could very easily be higher, even if fully justified trigger pulls. The empathetic side of me feels those numbers could be lowered. The fact will always remain that guns, whether used for personal protection, hunting, law enforcement, or warfare, will predictably cause controversial and/or adversarial reactions and have the strong potential for tragic interactions. Not sure there's a clear path around that.
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ncsualum05
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In reply to Mormad • 12:53p, 4/21/21
Mormad said:
Civilized said:
That's a whole lot of people shot to death by police.


It leaves me wondering what the number SHOULD be. Are we to assume that most of those shootings are justified, or unjustified? We certainly hope they are mostly justified when used in the line of duty? Common sense in me says those numbers could very easily be higher, even if fully justified trigger pulls. The empathetic side of me feels those numbers could be lowered. The fact will always remain that guns, whether used for personal protection, hunting, law enforcement, or warfare, will predictably cause controversial and/or adversarial reactions and have the strong potential for tragic interactions. Not sure there's a clear path around that.
1100 in a country of 330 million .00033% of Americans were killed by a police officer. Of course if you aren't breaking the law and resisting arrest then your chances of this happening to you are 0%.
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packgrad
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In reply to Mormad • 12:55p, 4/21/21
Mormad said:
Civilized said:
That's a whole lot of people shot to death by police.


It leaves me wondering what the number SHOULD be. Are we to assume that most of those shootings are justified, or unjustified? We certainly hope they are mostly justified when used in the line of duty? Common sense in me says those numbers could very easily be higher, even if fully justified trigger pulls. The empathetic side of me feels those numbers could be lowered. The fact will always remain that guns, whether used for personal protection, hunting, law enforcement, or warfare, will predictably cause controversial and/or adversarial reactions and have the strong potential for tragic interactions. Not sure there's a clear path around that.


50+ million police interactions per year. 00002 result in fatal shootings. 50+% of those were armed with a gun. 4% were unarmed.
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packgrad
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In reply to ncsualum05 • 12:56p, 4/21/21
ncsualum05 said:
Mormad said:
Civilized said:
That's a whole lot of people shot to death by police.


It leaves me wondering what the number SHOULD be. Are we to assume that most of those shootings are justified, or unjustified? We certainly hope they are mostly justified when used in the line of duty? Common sense in me says those numbers could very easily be higher, even if fully justified trigger pulls. The empathetic side of me feels those numbers could be lowered. The fact will always remain that guns, whether used for personal protection, hunting, law enforcement, or warfare, will predictably cause controversial and/or adversarial reactions and have the strong potential for tragic interactions. Not sure there's a clear path around that.
1100 in a country of 330 million .00033% of Americans were killed by a police officer. Of course if you aren't breaking the law and resisting arrest then your chances of this happening to you are 0%.


Edit. My bad. Ignore me. I ignored the %.
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ncsualum05
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In reply to BBW12OG • 12:58p, 4/21/21
BBW12OG said:
Remember Dear Leader, aka as "The Great Divider", wanted nothing more nothing less than for this country to be torn apart and our democracy destroyed.

One party rule is what he wanted and he is pulling the strings in this **** show of an administration 100%.

Sleepy Joe can't work more than 3 days a week and Horizontal "Cackling Hyena" Harris is about as useless as red clay at the beach. She's more worried about curtains in her new crib than visiting the border.

Thank God the lefties will rue the day they elected these clowns in 2022 and 2024. I pray when that happens the GOP goes scorched Earth and buries that party so deep they'll never recover.

And yes, that is from a place of anger. What the lefties are trying to do to this once great country should make every real American angry.

The ones who aren't, well, they never really were true Americans anyway. You know the ones that celebrate participation trophies like they just won a Natty? We have more than a few on here.....
It won't happen and you know it. If GOP takes power in the next election cycle or 2 than they will look to appease rather than bury. They'll cave to media and mob activists. And they'll probably be some more investigations like there was when Trump first got elected. And GOP pols will have the usual deer in the headlights reaction. They'll fight amongst each other, some will shout out loud against the left while others will be silent. They will fail to have a united clear message to Americans and whatever good message they do try to get out will be buried by media and big tech anyway. So they'll simply wait until the pendulum swings the other way and they lose control again.
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Packchem91
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In reply to Mormad • 1:10p, 4/21/21
Mormad said:
Civilized said:
That's a whole lot of people shot to death by police.


It leaves me wondering what the number SHOULD be. Are we to assume that most of those shootings are justified, or unjustified? We certainly hope they are mostly justified when used in the line of duty? Common sense in me says those numbers could very easily be higher, even if fully justified trigger pulls. The empathetic side of me feels those numbers could be lowered. The fact will always remain that guns, whether used for personal protection, hunting, law enforcement, or warfare, will predictably cause controversial and/or adversarial reactions and have the strong potential for tragic interactions. Not sure there's a clear path around that.
I'm sure there is a movement about the 1100, to understand why, generally, there are so many. Probably should be ongoing reviews of that. I'd assume the vast vast majority of these are valid shootings where the bad guy pulled (or used) a weapon.

But all the public fuss appears to be around 6-10 cases a year where there is clear (or apparent) evidence that the victim was not actually armed. And the victim happens to be black.
I'd wonder, how many of the white victims were also found to be unarmed? You would never know from the media.....but I'd assume there have to be some?
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Civilized
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In reply to Mormad • 1:18p, 4/21/21
Mormad said:
Civilized said:
That's a whole lot of people shot to death by police.


It leaves me wondering what the number SHOULD be. Are we to assume that most of those shootings are justified, or unjustified? We certainly hope they are mostly justified when used in the line of duty? Common sense in me says those numbers could very easily be higher, even if fully justified trigger pulls. The empathetic side of me feels those numbers could be lowered. The fact will always remain that guns, whether used for personal protection, hunting, law enforcement, or warfare, will predictably cause controversial and/or adversarial reactions and have the strong potential for tragic interactions. Not sure there's a clear path around that.

The US is already tops in the developed world, between three and 60 times worse than other developed nations at police killing our citizens per capita.

I'm not sure "it could always be worse" is particularly persuasive on this topic.

I think your overarching question is key though. How many should it reasonably be?

As I've said before on here, context matters.

Why are we worst in the developed world?

Do police need more training?

Do we need more police to take the stress off the police we do have?

Do as many of those police need to be armed given that between 1/3 and 2/3 of all police interactions clearly do not require a gun?

Do too many criminals have guns?

Can we maintain the current very easy access to guns for the broader population and still reduce the number of criminals that have guns?

If not, are we as a society fine making the trade off that more citizens having guns means that more criminals will also, and more people will die by gun violence in this country than other developed nations, whether the violence is perpetrated by police or civilians?

Regarding police violence, we can argue about what's reasonable all we want to but what's not reasonable is how difficult and unusual it is for police to be held legally accountable for their actions while on duty.

No matter where you fall on many of these other issues, accountability in policing has to improve.
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James Henderson
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1:24p, 4/21/21
Staff
I need to be President because here is what I'd do.

Within precincts have white and black cops split into divisions. When a 911/disturbance call comes in, first question is what race are you? If it's a white person on the phone, send a white cop. If it's a black person, send a black cop. As a native American I don't know what they'd do if one of us calls, but no one seems to really care about non-white/non-black people now anyways so I guess just send whoever.

But if you handle it this way when a cop shoots someone, race won't be the issue. Then it's just about the cop making the right or wrong decision (which is is what I tend to think it is 9 times out of 10 now anyways, but this will clean it all up).

See, make me President!
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