PackBacker07 said:

---

Freedom of speech comes from the First Amendment, not God. It plainly states "Congress shall make no law." Private companies can do whatever they want. The First Amendment doesn't shield anyone from criticism, consequences, boycotts, message board bans, having advertisers leave, etc. Say whatever insane thing you want, but that doesn't mean no consequences.

Now back to your regularly scheduled **** show of a thread.

---

No, our rights are "endowed by our Creator", as stated in the Declaration of Independence. A "right", by definition, must come from a power higher than man -- because man-made governments are not allowed to take those rights away.

Of course I understand how the First Amendment works, and that it only prohibits Congress from making laws. I'm not saying that private companies like Twitter or YouTube are "violating the First Amendment". I never said that. I'm not saying that we could take them to court for violation of the First Amendment.

What I AM saying is that these Leftist-run companies do not believe in the concept of freedom of speech. And they are allowed by the law to do that. I understand that. But the fact remains that they believe in censoring right-wing and anti-Establishment views. They do not believe in the concept of freedom of speech.

Now back to your BS.

RunsWithWolves26 said:

---

PackBacker07 said:

---

Freedom of speech comes from the First Amendment, not God. It plainly states "Congress shall make no law." Private companies can do whatever they want. The First Amendment doesn't shield anyone from criticism, consequences, boycotts, message board bans, having advertisers leave, etc. Say whatever insane thing you want, but that doesn't mean no consequences.

Now back to your regularly scheduled **** show of a thread.

---

We have our disagreements but damn man, your ass was spot on with this post. And yes, I laughed at the last part. Good work.

---

Haha, yep.

'Cancel culture' = 'companies responding to the desires of their consumers or advertisers'.

You can accuse companies of not being truly principled and instead following the money, but it's not a conspiracy or even particularly political. It's the market at work.

Canceling [whatever] makes business sense for them, or they likely wouldn't do it.

It's amazing the mental gymnastics liberals are taking to justify cancel culture. Burn your books. Cancel Elmer Fudd. Erase Gone With the Wind. Fire editors that post a column from a Republican congressman.

The apologists are as bad as the ones doing the canceling. Especially since we already know silence is violence. Can't imagine where justification fits into the spectrum.

GuerrillaPack said:

---

What I AM saying is that these Leftist-run companies do not believe in the concept of freedom of speech. And they are allowed by the law to do that. I understand that. But the fact remains that they believe in censoring right-wing and anti-Establishment views. They do not believe in the concept of freedom of speech.

---

A simpler explanation is that changing popular opinion means it currently (or no longer) makes business sense for them to support those views corporately.

You call them 'right-wing' and 'anti-Establishment'; many times they're opposing racial equality or social justice views that don't have anything to do with simple conservative politics. Religious right views maybe (LGBT issues like Chic-Fil-A's LGBT stance) but right-wing politics extend beyond religious conservatism.

Anti-Establishment sounds courageous but supporting police unions, the criminal justice status quo, the big business of mass incarceration, and military jingoism is pro-Establishment, not anti-Establishment.

These companies aren't opposing being libertarian or small-government, or promoting austerity or fiscal conservatism.

They're most often opposing social justice stances that are becoming increasingly unpopular amongst their consumers or advertisers.

lumberpack5 said:

---

Francis said:

---

James Henderson said:

---

Otis4411 said:

---

James Henderson said:

---

Gopack80 said:

---

There is not one singular topic more polarizing than race discussion. Not one. Anything...ANYTHING...perceived as even having a hint of racism is going to be magnified x1000, especially in today's climate. It has always been around and will always be around.

You have one side who feels oppressed/overburdened/threatened, etc. Doesn't matter if that's in fact the case. The narrative is driven and sensationalized by the media, and public opinion is going to sway how things typically go.

The narrative, which has been around since the 50's/60's, is that police departments nationwide overwhelmingly target African Americans and the justice system is highly skewed and unfairly stacks the deck against POC.

I would argue that the former may have been true at one time, and still may be in some locations...but that may or may not be necessarily justified (based on the crime statistics).

The latter could be true, but I have yet to see hard evidence or statistics that back it up.

I personally think most of our problems don't boil down to race, but economic and class status. That is where most are missing the mark in this discussion.

What doesn't get discussed, but should be discussed, is the culture (can be both both white and black) which fosters and nurtures the lifestyles which ultimately lead to poor decision making, poverty, criminal activity, acts of desperation, and just down-right evil. How do you fix that? Especially when you can't even talk about it.

---

Well what bothers me is race discussion often boils down to black or white, which it's not.

You have Native Americans, Asians, Hispanics, etc... who also deal with racial issues in this country, but it's often Black or White.

Imagine being told your tribe/heritage isn't legitimate by the federal government. That's what my people have to deal with. That should be an issue folks fight for too, but it's not.

---

James what is your native ancestry if you don't mind me asking? I think my DNA test showed 2% which is small but I have no idea what tribe it would be. I started working in tobacco for my Grandfather when I was 6 yrs old. I drove a farmall super A ( I own it now) and coukd not reach the pedals. He hooked a spring from the belly lift to the clutch and that is how I drove it. I got paid 15.00 a week. My parents put my money up and when it was time to start school I bought most all of my school clothes with my own money. We got up before the chickens and took out a barn so we woukd be able to put in a barn. I have always worked and enjoy working. I'm a lineman with a co-op in the east. I work hard for a living. I'm 61 now. I do not understand the term white privilege. I have worked for everything I have ever had including my first car and the clothes I wore to school in the 1st grade. I have many good friends that are black. Nobody is going to do or say anything to me that could change that. I would stand with them if somebody was to bother them. But I will not apologize for being who I am. I will not dishonor the flag of our country or the Anthem. Sports that allow that I choose not to watch. I'm about down to college and high school sports now. I'll quit them too if it comes to it. Just give me more time for family and other hobbies.

---

Lumbee Indian. Read here for more info on our background/heritage: https://www.lumbeetribe.com/history--culture

We've been fighting for years to be federally recognized which would bring additional benefits that have been afforded to other tribes but it hasn't happened yet.

I don't want to be too vocal to take away from everything that's going on now with BLM, but I know a lot of my relatives are asking where is the same support for Native Americans across this country.

---

James, there's definitely a lot of money and benefits flowing to parts of Robeson County. Just drive down Hwy 211 from Red Springs to Lumberton and you'll see some really nice, large, and newly constructed homes. Same with Pembroke. Not saying all of this is federal funds, but some people are living very well. For some reason I thought when Elizabeth Dole was in the senate, she sponsored a bill that fully recognize the Lumbee Tribe and got passed and signed into law?

---

No, there is not a lot of money flowing into Robeson County. Robeson is poor as hell. Now the Tribe has taken over the Electric Co-Op, and has Lumbee Gurantee Bank, and a good chunk of County government. The Tribe gets a lot of housing money. You can build a lot of house with 3% down and low interest rates.

The root problem in Robeson is that about 30K-40K Lums need to move to Raleigh, Charlotte, or the Triad because there is not enough economic activity in Robeson County to support that level of population. However, the attachment to "home" is so great, that many stay despite lack of opportunity.

There are the most socio-economic splits that you will find in any County in NC.

There are "Town" Lums, and Pembroke Lums (Town Lums are from Lumberton) (There is a name for out of the County Lums, but I forget and it only applies to Hoke and Scotland Counties)

There are three main brands of whites - "Lint Heads", White Folks, and "That North Lumberton Crowd" The Lint heads are from East Lumberton east to Allenton. Most of the rest of the Whites are white without any moniker that I ever heard. The north crowd is the Professional class and multi-generational land owners.

There North Blacks and South Blacks, The Lumber River is the dividing line and the difference is substantial with North Blacks seeming to have more multi-generational education and opportunity.

Then there are an influx of Southwest Asians who own and operate all the hotels. There are a lot of these folks, enough to actually be noticed.

Then finally there are two kinds of Hispanics - working class, and entrepreneurial class. There is an entire class of successful Hispanic entrepreneurs.

These 10 groups are constantly coming together and breaking apart politically as everyone in the County waits to see if the Lumbees ever get their "Indian Money". Every major group has a legitimate past grievance of some kind.

From a nation to native relation issues - the Cherokee hate the Lums. The Tuscarora claim the Lums stole their history (see Eddie Hatcher), The Coharrie, Hawal-Sapanoi, and I think what was the Mehherin get along with Lums.


By and large, those populations that occupy the bottom 20 % of the socio-economic pyramid are the ones the police beat up. Black aren't beat up and killed where they do not live. The police do that to white people when no minority is available. That sounds like a joke, but a lot of departments operate on intimidating the bottom 10-20% from time to time just to "keep them in line".

However, when you take officers outside their socio-economic comfort zone, they often no longer know who is or who is not predisposed to be a problem. But they way they are trained and with the quasi-military background some come from, if you run, your ass is in trouble. You better just lay on the ground because your flight triggers many of them. Until this is curtailed, it can't get much better.


By the way, I too have been a victim of police brutality. I was roughed up in a university parking lot because I had the temerity to tamper with a parking boot and the campus popo wanted to make an example.

---

Lumber, thanks for your post. Very educational. I'm from Fayetteville and I remember a lot of the Lumbees lived in Massey Hill.

Are there specific policies, bills, etc that specifically target black people and "institutionalize" racism in the United States?

Redlining was one in the past and was eliminated many years ago.

metcalfmafia said:

---

Are there specific policies, bills, etc that specifically target black people and "institutionalize" racism in the United States?

Redlining was one in the past and was eliminated many years ago.

---

No, just several bad cops out of several hundred thousand good cops. There's bad lawyers, bad media members, bad judges, bad accountants, etc... Its totally wrong to paint all with the broad brush.

Francis said:

---

metcalfmafia said:

---

Are there specific policies, bills, etc that specifically target black people and "institutionalize" racism in the United States?

Redlining was one in the past and was eliminated many years ago.

---

No, just several bad cops out of several hundred thousand good cops. There's bad lawyers, bad media members, bad judges, bad accountants, etc... Its totally wrong to paint all with the broad brush.

---

That and the fact that the media jumps on every perceived Injustice cops commit against black people, while ignoring the thousands and thousands of ones they committed against white people.
24% the police killings where black people, while they are roughly 13% of the population.
But that actually is less then the percentage of violent crime that black people commit, again....despite being only 13% of the population.

It's very simple. If you have more interactions with the police, as a percentage, then more of those interactions will go bad. That doesn't mean the police can't be better... But if you really want to reduce that number, they have to reduce their interactions with the police. Which means they need to stop committing so much crime.
And if you keep going down that rabbit hole, it will lead you to "taking education seriously".

But there are loads of white people who have their interactions with police go badly as well. I recently saw a meme on Facebook that showed a video of a white man who stole a police officers baton and did not get shot. And then it says basically that white people never get shot in this situation, while what people do. And that is totally faults. But if it happens to a white person, you don't see it blown up on the media and people don't march and protest and Riot over it.

metcalfmafia said:

---

Are there specific policies, bills, etc that specifically target black people and "institutionalize" racism in the United States?

Redlining was one in the past and was eliminated many years ago.

---

I can't tell if you truly want to look into the answer to your question or just want people to agree with you. If you are truly interested, then please feel free to google structural racism and pick a white paper to read. I've done the first step of finding one for you but feel free to search for others - https://www.racialequitytools.org/resourcefiles/aspeninst3.pdf

Pacfanweb said:

---

That and the fact that the media jumps on every perceived Injustice cops commit against black people, while ignoring the thousands and thousands of ones they committed against white people.
24% the police killings where black people, while they are roughly 13% of the population.
But that actually is less then the percentage of violent crime that black people commit, again....despite being only 13% of the population.

It's very simple. If you have more interactions with the police, as a percentage, then more of those interactions will go bad. That doesn't mean the police can't be better... But if you really want to reduce that number, they have to reduce their interactions with the police. Which means they need to stop committing so much crime.
And if you keep going down that rabbit hole, it will lead you to "taking education seriously".

But there are loads of white people who have their interactions with police go badly as well. I recently saw a meme on Facebook that showed a video of a white man who stole a police officers baton and did not get shot. And then it says basically that white people never get shot in this situation, while what people do. And that is totally faults. But if it happens to a white person, you don't see it blown up on the media and people don't march and protest and Riot over it.

---

Specifically in response to the bold, I'd rephrase to "Which means we need to stop criminalizing so much behavior."
The US doesnt have the highest prison population because we have the most hardened criminals. We use police and the threat of incarceration to deal with entirely too many situations, and those fall predominately on the poor. End the war on drugs, stop using cash bail for non-violent misdemeanors or just issue citations and skip the arrest.

statefan91 said:

---

metcalfmafia said:

---

Are there specific policies, bills, etc that specifically target black people and "institutionalize" racism in the United States?

Redlining was one in the past and was eliminated many years ago.

---

I can't tell if you truly want to look into the answer to your question or just want people to agree with you. If you are truly interested, then please feel free to google structural racism and pick a white paper to read. I've done the first step of finding one for you but feel free to search for others - https://www.racialequitytools.org/resourcefiles/aspeninst3.pdf

---

If you can't just give us some simple examples, but instead have to reference some BS written by far-left ideologues...then that doesn't say much for your argument. You can't just give us one example of this mythical "systemic racism" against black people?

statefan91 said:

---

metcalfmafia said:

---

Are there specific policies, bills, etc that specifically target black people and "institutionalize" racism in the United States?

Redlining was one in the past and was eliminated many years ago.

---

I can't tell if you truly want to look into the answer to your question or just want people to agree with you. If you are truly interested, then please feel free to google structural racism and pick a white paper to read. I've done the first step of finding one for you but feel free to search for others - https://www.racialequitytools.org/resourcefiles/aspeninst3.pdf

---

I really was just asking if anyone had an example of a specific policy. I didn't see one in the link.

Pacfanweb said:

---

That and the fact that the media jumps on every perceived Injustice cops commit against black people, while ignoring the thousands and thousands of ones they committed against white people.
24% the police killings where black people, while they are roughly 13% of the population.
But that actually is less then the percentage of violent crime that black people commit, again....despite being only 13% of the population.

It's very simple. If you have more interactions with the police, as a percentage, then more of those interactions will go bad. That doesn't mean the police can't be better... But if you really want to reduce that number, they have to reduce their interactions with the police. Which means they need to stop committing so much crime.
And if you keep going down that rabbit hole, it will lead you to "taking education seriously".

But there are loads of white people who have their interactions with police go badly as well. I recently saw a meme on Facebook that showed a video of a white man who stole a police officers baton and did not get shot. And then it says basically that white people never get shot in this situation, while what people do. And that is totally faults. But if it happens to a white person, you don't see it blown up on the media and people don't march and protest and Riot over it.

---

Ask yourself, "Is there sufficient racial equity in this country?"

If your answer is yes, there's nothing to discuss.

If your answer is no, then you can potentially empathize with black Americans' 350 years of frustration and BLM should be relatively self-explanatory.

IseWolf22 said:

---

Specifically in response to the bold, I'd rephrase to "Which means we need to stop criminalizing so much behavior."
The US doesnt have the highest prison population because we have the most hardened criminals. We use police and the threat of incarceration to deal with entirely too many situations, and those fall predominately on the poor. End the war on drugs, stop using cash bail for non-violent misdemeanors or just issue citations and skip the arrest.

---

Yep. Ton of money in the prison-industrial complex.

The government being so heavily lobbied to build more prisons and then, in fact, building more prisons does not result in an increase of criminals. It does clearly result in an increase in prisoners.

There's a big difference, and black Americans bear the brunt of that distinction.

Civilized said:

---

Pacfanweb said:

---

That and the fact that the media jumps on every perceived Injustice cops commit against black people, while ignoring the thousands and thousands of ones they committed against white people.
24% the police killings where black people, while they are roughly 13% of the population.
But that actually is less then the percentage of violent crime that black people commit, again....despite being only 13% of the population.

It's very simple. If you have more interactions with the police, as a percentage, then more of those interactions will go bad. That doesn't mean the police can't be better... But if you really want to reduce that number, they have to reduce their interactions with the police. Which means they need to stop committing so much crime.
And if you keep going down that rabbit hole, it will lead you to "taking education seriously".

But there are loads of white people who have their interactions with police go badly as well. I recently saw a meme on Facebook that showed a video of a white man who stole a police officers baton and did not get shot. And then it says basically that white people never get shot in this situation, while what people do. And that is totally faults. But if it happens to a white person, you don't see it blown up on the media and people don't march and protest and Riot over it.

---

Ask yourself, "Is there sufficient racial equity in this country?"

If your answer is yes, there's nothing to discuss.

If your answer is no, then you can potentially empathize with black Americans' 350 years of frustration and BLM should be relatively self-explanatory.

---

I kinda feel like what your saying here is that if i don't agree with the point being made that I am wrong, racist and the that I need to understand all of the rioting and looting that has taken place over the last few weeks?

I think its also worth pointing out that there were no black americans' 350 years ago.....there weren't any white americans' either. You should probably take that 1619 project bull**** from the NY times and do something else with it.

Civilized said:

---

Pacfanweb said:

---

That and the fact that the media jumps on every perceived Injustice cops commit against black people, while ignoring the thousands and thousands of ones they committed against white people.
24% the police killings where black people, while they are roughly 13% of the population.
But that actually is less then the percentage of violent crime that black people commit, again....despite being only 13% of the population.

It's very simple. If you have more interactions with the police, as a percentage, then more of those interactions will go bad. That doesn't mean the police can't be better... But if you really want to reduce that number, they have to reduce their interactions with the police. Which means they need to stop committing so much crime.
And if you keep going down that rabbit hole, it will lead you to "taking education seriously".

But there are loads of white people who have their interactions with police go badly as well. I recently saw a meme on Facebook that showed a video of a white man who stole a police officers baton and did not get shot. And then it says basically that white people never get shot in this situation, while what people do. And that is totally faults. But if it happens to a white person, you don't see it blown up on the media and people don't march and protest and Riot over it.

---

Ask yourself, "Is there sufficient racial equity in this country?"

If your answer is yes, there's nothing to discuss.

If your answer is no, then you can potentially empathize with black Americans' 350 years of frustration and BLM should be relatively self-explanatory.

---

There should be no mandate for "equality" -- of "results". As I mentioned earlier, there is no "equality" (of results) in the NBA. Whites are ~65% of the population, but make up only 18% of NBA players. Meanwhile, blacks are ~13% of the population, but make up 74% of NBA players. Does this mean there is discrimination against white players and discrimination in favor of black players? No.

The lack of equality in results does not mean that discrimination is taking place. Apply that to other areas of society. Differences in SAT scores between various racial groups, average household income, and rates of convictions for criminal offenses -- are also not caused by "systemic, institutionalized" racial discrimination.

If anything the educational opportunities and average household incomes of white and asian Americans are being held down and lowered by systemic, institutionalized racial discrimination -- ie, "affirmative action". The educational opportunities and average household incomes of black Americans are being raised and aided by systemic, institutionalized racial discrimination ("affirmative action").

There is equality of opportunity is this country -- at least in respect to black americans. The only people who are facing systemic, institutionalized discrimination in educational and job/employment opportunities are are white and asian americans who are discriminated against by mandate of law via "affirmative action" policies. Black and hispanic Americans (and some other groups) are not facing systemic, institutionalized discrimination against them. To the contrary, they are being aided and helped by discrimination in their favor in education and employment opportunities, via "affirmative action" policies.

metcalfmafia said:

---

statefan91 said:

---

metcalfmafia said:

---

Are there specific policies, bills, etc that specifically target black people and "institutionalize" racism in the United States?

Redlining was one in the past and was eliminated many years ago.

---

I can't tell if you truly want to look into the answer to your question or just want people to agree with you. If you are truly interested, then please feel free to google structural racism and pick a white paper to read. I've done the first step of finding one for you but feel free to search for others - https://www.racialequitytools.org/resourcefiles/aspeninst3.pdf

---

I really was just asking if anyone had an example of a specific policy. I didn't see one in the link.

---

Understood - feel free to review this article as a starter on the challenges presented to african-american WII veterans.

The GI bill enabled my family to go to college - my grandfather went to NC State and graduated in Engineering, then joining Duke Power and working there until retirement.

AA Veterans denied many of the benefits provided by the GI Bill by the States they lived in led to the setback of multiple generations of forthcoming AA family members. Without the GI Bill, my family likely would not have sent anyone to college until my generation at the earliest (Gen X).

https://www.history.com/news/gi-bill-black-wwii-veterans-benefits

GuerrillaPack said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Pacfanweb said:

---

That and the fact that the media jumps on every perceived Injustice cops commit against black people, while ignoring the thousands and thousands of ones they committed against white people.
24% the police killings where black people, while they are roughly 13% of the population.
But that actually is less then the percentage of violent crime that black people commit, again....despite being only 13% of the population.

It's very simple. If you have more interactions with the police, as a percentage, then more of those interactions will go bad. That doesn't mean the police can't be better... But if you really want to reduce that number, they have to reduce their interactions with the police. Which means they need to stop committing so much crime.
And if you keep going down that rabbit hole, it will lead you to "taking education seriously".

But there are loads of white people who have their interactions with police go badly as well. I recently saw a meme on Facebook that showed a video of a white man who stole a police officers baton and did not get shot. And then it says basically that white people never get shot in this situation, while what people do. And that is totally faults. But if it happens to a white person, you don't see it blown up on the media and people don't march and protest and Riot over it.

---

Ask yourself, "Is there sufficient racial equity in this country?"

If your answer is yes, there's nothing to discuss.

If your answer is no, then you can potentially empathize with black Americans' 350 years of frustration and BLM should be relatively self-explanatory.

---

There should be no mandate for "equality" -- of "results". As I mentioned earlier, there is no "equality" (of results) in the NBA. Whites are ~65% of the population, but make up only 18% of NBA players. Meanwhile, blacks are ~13% of the population, but make up 74% of NBA players. Does this mean there is discrimination against white players and discrimination in favor of black players? No.

The lack of equality in results does not mean that discrimination is taking place. Apply that to other areas of society. Differences in SAT scores between various racial groups, average household income, and rates of convictions for criminal offenses -- are also not caused by "systemic, institutionalized" racial discrimination.

If anything the educational opportunities and average household incomes of white and asian Americans are being held down and lowered by systemic, institutionalized racial discrimination -- ie, "affirmative action". The educational opportunities and average household incomes of black Americans are being raised and aided by systemic, institutionalized racial discrimination ("affirmative action").

There is equality of opportunity is this country -- at least in respect to black americans. The only people who are facing systemic, institutionalized discrimination in educational and job/employment opportunities are are white and asian americans who are discriminated against by mandate of law via "affirmative action" policies. Black and hispanic (and some other groups) are not facing systemic, institutionalized discrimination against them. To the contrary, they are being aided and helped by discrimination in their favor in education and employment opportunities, via "affirmative action" policies.

---

I think there is some inequality in this country, but its not due to society. Its due to people's individual choices and how they impact the people around them.

For instance we can all agree that the children of two parent households are more successful than one parent households, but 73% of black children grow up in a single parent household. That isn't the child's fault, but it does create a much harder path for that child. That is a huge barrier that was set up that does create inequality, but the father of that child did that...not me.

The problem is that people refuse to accept responsibility for their own choices and how those choices impact people around them. Instead folks want to look for the easy place to lay the blame....and in this case its systematic racism in America. I would argue that you can't find another country that provides the opportunity to people of all races anywhere in the world that even comes close to the US, but people refuse to see that.

If these people actually want to solve the issue of the black community, then the black community needs to look within itself first.

cowboypack02 said:

---

I kinda feel like what your saying here is that if i don't agree with the point being made that I am wrong, racist and the that I need to understand all of the rioting and looting that has taken place over the last few weeks?

I think its also worth pointing out that there were no black americans' 350 years ago.....there weren't any white americans' either. You should probably take that 1619 project bull**** from the NY times and do something else with it.

---

Are you saying black Americans aren't protesting a worthy cause, or that when it comes to protesting, they're doing it wrong?

Black America's history, culture, and current situation is profoundly impacted by slavery. When did the influx of slaves (the descendants of black Americans) start?

Civilized said:

---

cowboypack02 said:

---

I kinda feel like what your saying here is that if i don't agree with the point being made that I am wrong, racist and the that I need to understand all of the rioting and looting that has taken place over the last few weeks?

I think its also worth pointing out that there were no black americans' 350 years ago.....there weren't any white americans' either. You should probably take that 1619 project bull**** from the NY times and do something else with it.

---

Are you saying black Americans aren't protesting a worthy cause, or that when it comes to protesting, they're doing it wrong?

Black America's history, culture, and current situation is profoundly impacted by slavery. When did the influx of slaves (the descendants of black Americans) start?

---

Slavery ended in the 1860s, now about 155 years ago. At what point do we move past this?

Virtually every racial group in the world have been slaves at some point in history. The ancestors of modern northern Europeans (the Israelites) were slaves in Egypt. The very term "slave" comes from the name "Slav", referring to the Slavic ethnic group that populates eastern Europe, who were the primary slaves in the times of the Roman empire.

This is a now suppressed part of history...but approximately one million Europeans were captured by muslim/arab slave traders between the 16th and 18th century, known as the Barbary slave trade -- with arab ships raiding coastal towns in Europe from Italy to the Netherlands, Britain and Ireland, and even Iceland...capturing Europeans and taking them back to North Africa as slaves.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_slave_trade

Quote:

---

In his 2003 book Christian Slaves, Muslim Masters: White Slavery in the Mediterranean, the Barbary Coast and Italy, 15001800, Ohio State University history professor Robert Davis states that most modern historians minimize the white slave trade. Davis estimates that slave traders from Tunis, Algiers, and Tripoli alone enslaved 1 million to 1.25 million Europeans in North Africa

---

cowboypack02 said:

---

If these people actually want to solve the issue of the black community, then the black community needs to look within itself first.

---

Yep, this it the key.

It's time to stop blaming white people, none alive today that even KNEW anyone who owned slaves for their lot in life, and start taking some responsibility.

For give/take 50 years now, blacks have had the same opportunities at education. Sat in the same classes alongside white kids, learned from the same teachers.

What have they done with it? Have black parents along the way pushed/prodded/demanded academic excellence from their children?

Because better education=better outcomes as adults=less turn to crime and live in poverty.

You can't keep on and on and on, asking/demanding whites be absolutely perfect in every way, cry racism every time they are told "No" or someone questions what black's role is in them bettering their societal position, and never, EVER acknowledge or even point out that "Um, 73% of our kids are born to unwed mothers. Maybe we should fix that?" And it's proportionally higher that those same mothers have more kids by more different "fathers" that then are uninvolved in their kid's lives.
They can't keep crying "racism" when THEY are the ones not living up to what their grandparents and great-grandparents fought for: Equal rights.
They can't keep blowing up every isolated incident of a cop doing something wrong, when we KNOW that these incidents are few and far between...but with today's "instant news", every one of them is blown up on TV.
The cops have just as many incidents with whites....but those don't make the news.

They can vote. They go to the same schools. Eat at the same restaurants. Etc. They can do anything white people can do, if they CHOOSE to.

Again, what have they done with those hard-earned rights? Do they keep their families together? As a culture, do they value education, and push their kids to excel in school so they'll do better than the previous generation?

You and I both know that the answer to that is "No, they do not".

And THAT is what needs to change. Change that, and acceptance will come. Better education means better outcomes as adults. Better outcomes mean less and less turn to crime. The fewer that turn to crime means that cops will find less and less blacks to arrest, and they will in turn look at them less and less.

But you can't start at the end of that.

Civilized said:

---

cowboypack02 said:

---

I kinda feel like what your saying here is that if i don't agree with the point being made that I am wrong, racist and the that I need to understand all of the rioting and looting that has taken place over the last few weeks?

I think its also worth pointing out that there were no black americans' 350 years ago.....there weren't any white americans' either. You should probably take that 1619 project bull**** from the NY times and do something else with it.

---

Are you saying black Americans aren't protesting a worthy cause, or that when it comes to protesting, they're doing it wrong?

Black America's history, culture, and current situation is profoundly impacted by slavery. When did the influx of slaves (the descendants of black Americans) start?

---

Any American has a right to protest for whatever they want and I support that completely. Have you watched any of the videos of the "protests" in the major cities around the country? I don't support that at all. I didn't realize that "protest" created billions of dollars of damage. In Minneapolis alone there is more that 500 million in damage (https://www.startribune.com/twin-cities-rebuilding-begins-with-donations-pressure-on-government/571075592/) That's not protesting man....and you know it.

As far as black Americans being impacted by slavery, of course they were. Slavery was abolished on December 6th, 1865, which was 155 years ago. There isn't a single person alive that suffered from legalized slavery in this country right now...and hasn't been for 70-80 years. Guess what.....that wasn't my fault. I didn't have slaves, my father didn't have slaves, neither did my grandfather, great grandfather, or great great grandfather.

If you want to solve the problem now lets look at some of the perceived issues and see if we can correct them

• Lack of educational opportunities? 37% of all college students are black
• Lack of representation in government? Just had a black president for 8 years
• Lack of job opportunities? Affirmative action takes care of that
• Killed by police more? 52% of the people killed by police are white

Lets look as some of what should be thought of as real issues

• 73% of African american children are from a single parent household
• 53% of all murders are committed by African Americans (only 13% of population)
• 54% of all robberies are committed by African Americans (only 13% of population)
• 31% of African Americans drop out of high school
• 19.6% of African Americans have a college degree

If you want to solve the inequality in the African American community lets figure out how to keep fathers in the home, commit less violent crimes, and get more staying in high school and then graduating from college. I'd be willing to wager that would solve 99% of the of any other issues.

Want to take a guess what doesn't solve any problems...burning down communities...


Finally - you said America was responsible for slavery in 1619. That statement is factually untrue and I was just pointing it out. If you decide to fact check my numbers - you can check doj.gov, nces.ed.gov, and finally bls.gov

I got your stats for that above this comment brother...

cowboypack02 said:

---

Civilized said:

---

cowboypack02 said:

---

I kinda feel like what your saying here is that if i don't agree with the point being made that I am wrong, racist and the that I need to understand all of the rioting and looting that has taken place over the last few weeks?

I think its also worth pointing out that there were no black americans' 350 years ago.....there weren't any white americans' either. You should probably take that 1619 project bull**** from the NY times and do something else with it.

---

Are you saying black Americans aren't protesting a worthy cause, or that when it comes to protesting, they're doing it wrong?

Black America's history, culture, and current situation is profoundly impacted by slavery. When did the influx of slaves (the descendants of black Americans) start?

---

Any American has a right to protest for whatever they want and I support that completely. Have you watched any of the videos of the "protests" in the major cities around the country? I don't support that at all. I didn't realize that "protest" created billions of dollars of damage. In Minneapolis alone there is more that 500 million in damage (https://www.startribune.com/twin-cities-rebuilding-begins-with-donations-pressure-on-government/571075592/) That's not protesting man....and you know it.

As far as black Americans being impacted by slavery, of course they were. Slavery was abolished on December 6th, 1865, which was 155 years ago. There isn't a single person alive that suffered from legalized slavery in this country right now...and hasn't been for 70-80 years. Guess what.....that wasn't my fault. I didn't have slaves, my father didn't have slaves, neither did my grandfather, great grandfather, or great great grandfather.

If you want to solve the problem now lets look at some of the perceived issues and see if we can correct them

• Lack of educational opportunities? 37% of all college students are black
• Lack of representation in government? Just had a black president for 8 years
• Lack of job opportunities? Affirmative action takes care of that
• Killed by police more? 52% of the people killed by police are white

Lets look as some of what should be thought of as real issues

• 73% of African american children are from a single parent household
• 53% of all murders are committed by African Americans (only 13% of population)
• 54% of all robberies are committed by African Americans (only 13% of population)
• 31% of African Americans drop out of high school
• 19.6% of African Americans have a college degree

If you want to solve the inequality in the African American community lets figure out how to keep fathers in the home, commit less violent crimes, and get more staying in high school and then graduating from college. I'd be willing to wager that would solve 99% of the of any other issues.

Want to take a guess what doesn't solve any problems...burning down communities...


Finally - you said America was responsible for slavery in 1619. That statement is factually untrue and I was just pointing it out. If you decide to fact check my numbers - you can check doj.gov, nces.ed.gov, and finally bls.gov

---

Great post.

Blacks cannot have their proverbial house in such disarray and keep ignoring that while expecting everyone else's house to be perfect. They have to make an effort, too. They have a lot more to clean up.

The Great Society program under LBJ is the late 1960s has enslaved black America to this very day. Basically as long as a man wasn't in the home (black absentee father), the woman would receive a monthly welfare check for herself and any additional child she gave birth to. This program has kept generations of black lives dependent on the government to take care of them and have kept them from escaping poverty. And yes, the democtrats want this to keep going so they can get their votes on any given election year. Problem for the Democrats are Black America is waking up to this modern enslavement.

Francis said:

---

The Great Society program under LBJ is the late 1960s has enslaved black America to this very day. Basically as long as a man wasn't in the home (black absentee father), the woman would receive a monthly welfare check for herself and any additional child she gave birth to. This program has kept generations of black lives dependent on the government to take care of them and have kept them from escaping poverty. And yes, the democtrats want this to keep going so they can get their votes on any given election year. Problem for the Democrats are Black America is waking up to this modern enslavement.

---

The last part may be true but the voting numbers don't prove that out.

All of what I said is true. It's not opinion based. Things are changing. Yeah, things aren't looking good for Trump as far as the polls, but there's a huge silent majority and Black citizens are part of it.

Slavery is not the black person's problem today.


The black person's problem was and remains the effects of Jim Crow/Apartheid/Segregation/Structure of Federal Programs.

Slaves were freed. Whites in the 1880's-1910's economically enslaved them again throughout the South and most of the rest of the nation. Oregon is a great example of black codes used in real estate. Without the capital gains of home ownership, and nature of sharecropping, blacks could not build wealth. When the Feds finally decided to do something, they structured assistant so as to toss the father out of the home. But Federal programs do not trap people in poverty, people are born into poverty and persist in in due to lack of opportunity and education.

William Rand Kenan murdered black folks in 1898, not 1864.

The inability to distinguish what happened and in what era is a common American issues since we don't teach history in this country beyond a few platitudes and white washed stories. It's like the constant drivel of "pull yourself up by your bootstaps", Horatio Alger crap.That's not the real world for EVERYONE in America, never has been.



This is a good text on social stratification. That's the main problem of all poor people. Once you are poor, actually getting out and moving up is difficult. https://us.sagepub.com/sites/default/files/upm-binaries/86826_Ch_8.pdf

People in this thread seem to think that 1964 flipped a switch and things were rosy for black people after that.

statefan91 said:

---

People in this thread seem to think that 1964 flipped a switch and things were rosy for black people after that.

---

And 1964 was over 50 years ago. Slavery was ended 155 years ago. Whatever problem black Americans have today, it is not the fault of white people. At what point do you stop blaming white people for all of your problems? There is no "systemic" racism against black people today in the United States. Not anymore. What there is now is systemic, institutionalized, codified-by-law racism and discrimination against white people.

GuerrillaPack said:

---

statefan91 said:

---

People in this thread seem to think that 1964 flipped a switch and things were rosy for black people after that.

---

And 1964 was over 50 years ago. Slavery was ended 155 years ago. Whatever problem black Americans have today, it is not the fault of white people. At what point do you stop blaming white people for all of your problems? There is no "systemic" racism against black people today in the United States. Not anymore. What there is now is systemic, institutionalized, codified-by-law racism and discrimination against white people.

---

In America there is systemic discrimination against POOR people. It does not matter their color or race, if they are poor, they get the shaft, be they in an Appalachian Holler, Indian Reservation, Urban Ghetto, or Dying Suburb. Because poorer whites are so easily mislead and fearful of losing what little they have to black or brown people, they are easy to turn against other lower class people or color.

How have you suffered racism Guerrilla?

Did you lose a job or a promotion?

Were you turned down for a loan?

Were you drug behind a truck?

Were you lynched?


When being "white" is more important that being economically well off is when poor and lower middle class whites become the cannon fodder for wealthy elites.

Social class is the real issue in America and blacks are caught on the bottom of the social class system.

lumberpack5 said:

---

Were you drug behind a truck?

Were you lynched?

---

You do understand that murders motivated by racism happen both ways, right? It's not like "only black people" have been murdered in America for that reason. I looked it up, and there have supposedly been roughly 4,700 lynchings in the U.S. from 1882 to 1968 -- including ~3,400 blacks and ~1,300 of those being whites who were lynched.

FBI statistics show you have around 400-500 white Americans being murdered by black Americans every year in the United States. Extrapolate that over just the last 40 years, and that's around ~18,000 white Americans murdered by black Americans -- 5 times the number who were ever lynched in a span of over 100 years.

cowboypack02 said:

---

I think there is some inequality in this country, but its not due to society. Its due to people's individual choices and how they impact the people around them.

---

No other ethnicity (or women) in this country would agree with that statement.

That's like a tiger telling a zebra that they, too, could be a top predator if they just worked harder at it.

White men are the only people in this country that have the luxury of thinking this way.

Straight white men have had disproportionate power and wealth in this country...forever. And that gives them privileges that other races, classes, and sexes don't have.

Trade places with a woman or someone of color and see if you still feel the same way.

cowboypack02 said:

---

Any American has a right to protest for whatever they want and I support that completely. Have you watched any of the videos of the "protests" in the major cities around the country? I don't support that at all. I didn't realize that "protest" created billions of dollars of damage. In Minneapolis alone there is more that 500 million in damage (https://www.startribune.com/twin-cities-rebuilding-begins-with-donations-pressure-on-government/571075592/) That's not protesting man....and you know it.

As far as black Americans being impacted by slavery, of course they were. Slavery was abolished on December 6th, 1865, which was 155 years ago. There isn't a single person alive that suffered from legalized slavery in this country right now...and hasn't been for 70-80 years. Guess what.....that wasn't my fault. I didn't have slaves, my father didn't have slaves, neither did my grandfather, great grandfather, or great great grandfather.

If you want to solve the problem now lets look at some of the perceived issues and see if we can correct them

• Lack of educational opportunities? 37% of all college students are black
• Lack of representation in government? Just had a black president for 8 years
• Lack of job opportunities? Affirmative action takes care of that
• Killed by police more? 52% of the people killed by police are white

Lets look as some of what should be thought of as real issues

• 73% of African american children are from a single parent household
• 53% of all murders are committed by African Americans (only 13% of population)
• 54% of all robberies are committed by African Americans (only 13% of population)
• 31% of African Americans drop out of high school
• 19.6% of African Americans have a college degree

If you want to solve the inequality in the African American community lets figure out how to keep fathers in the home, commit less violent crimes, and get more staying in high school and then graduating from college. I'd be willing to wager that would solve 99% of the of any other issues.

Want to take a guess what doesn't solve any problems...burning down communities...


Finally - you said America was responsible for slavery in 1619. That statement is factually untrue and I was just pointing it out. If you decide to fact check my numbers - you can check doj.gov, nces.ed.gov, and finally bls.gov

---

1965 Watts riots - 34 dead
1967 Newark riots - 26 dead, 1,500 injured
1967 Detroit riots - 43 dead, 2,000 injured
1968 MLK assassination riots - 46 dead nationwide, 2,600 injured

At least 40 other race riots of consequence occurred from the late 50's through the 60's at very significant costs to life and property.

Was the civil rights movement of the 1960's 'not protesting'? Were they doing it wrong, too?

And if you're going to tell me what I said, at least get it right. I referenced black Americans' 350 years of frustration. I didn't say anything about America being responsible for slavery in 1619.

Black Americans today are frustrated by persistent racial inequality that stems from their ancestor's enslavement dating back 350+ years that occurred on soil that was, or would become US soil.

Civilized said:

---

cowboypack02 said:

---

I think there is some inequality in this country, but its not due to society. Its due to people's individual choices and how they impact the people around them.

---

No other ethnicity (or women) in this country would agree with that statement.

That's like a tiger telling a zebra that they, too, could be a top predator if they just worked harder at it.

White men are the only people in this country that have the luxury of thinking this way.

Straight white men have had disproportionate power and wealth in this country...forever. And that gives them privileges that other races, classes, and sexes don't have.

Trade places with a woman or someone of color and see if you still feel the same way.

---

Straight white men now have the "privilege" of being discriminated against by the force of law in education, scholarships, hiring/employment, and awarding of business contracts -- via affirmative action.

Women, homosexuals, and non-whites have the REAL privilege. They are the ones who have affirmative action laws in place to discriminate in their favor -- in education, hiring/employment, etc. There are many school/university scholarships openly advertised as available for "women only", "black only", "hispanic only", etc. There are no scholarships advertised as "heterosexual white male only" or "white only". NONE.

Go to a college campus as a white male (or white female) and see how you are treated. Whites are villified by the Marxist-dominated professors as having "white privilege", and many classes (and other university initiatives, etc) are presented through the lens/narrative that whites/Europeans have been responsible for "virtually all of the world's injustices".

It is non-whites who have the privilege at these universities, clearly. Whites are treated in a very hostile manner -- not only via affirmative action, but the biased and slanted "history" that villifies their race. And it's not just at universities where this is the case. That is just an example that illustrates the same agenda that is prevalent everywhere else in our Leftist/Marxist-dominated society -- eg, in the Establishment Leftist media, Hollywood, etc.