Civilized said:

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Because there is a long and distinguished history of black people in this country being mistreated because they are black. There is no such similar history with white people.

---

YES, there is a long and distinguished history of white people being mistreated. In fact, it's CURRENT history, and ongoing injustice. It's called "affirmative action" -- mandated by law discrimination against white people in education, employment, contracts, etc.

The mistreatment of blacks is history. It's over.

Wait, so now not hating black people AND having black friends isn't enough? Amazing how "Great White hero" some people think all white people need to live their lives.

hereforguerrilla said:

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Pacfanweb said:

---

hereforguerrilla said:

---

This isn't rocket science. There aren't riots due to black on black crime because it is considered crime, it will be treated as such by our criminal justice system. Just like white on white crime or any other type of crime. It will be investigated and in most cases someone will go to jail. People are rioting because there is a lack of actual justice in our justice system for cases of police brutality. It really isn't that complicated.

---

So why aren't whites rioting when police treat one of them poorly? It happens just as often, if not MORE often.

There's the same "lack of justice" in all those instances as there is in some of the ones involving black people.

---

If videos start surfacing of police officers casually suffocating white men, women or children to death and the officers are not punished as they should be in accordance with the weight of the crime...you know, murder...then I'll be there protesting with you. Do you actually think this is happening to the white George Floyds but people just keep on strolling by instead of recording because...eh, it's a white guy?

---

Yes. That's exactly what happens. Google Brandon Stanley. Shot dead by a cop, he was unarmed.
But not all the time, sometimes there is video:


"Daniel Shaver, unarmed man killed by Arizona police officer, cried and begged for life before shooting"

An unarmed man who was shot and killed by an Arizona police officer in January cried, complied with police orders and begged for his life before the fatal firing, according to a newly released police report.

Mesa Police Officer Philip Brailsford has been charged with second-degree murder for the death of Daniel Shaver, a 26-year-old Texas man. Authorities have declined to release Brailsford's body cam footage from the deadly encounter."

I suppose it's "racist" to ask where the protests, riots and outrage there were over that. Cop was acquitted of 2nd degree murder, btw. Imagine the outrage had Mr Shaver been black.

Ask Dylan Noble. (there's a video) Unarmed white kid, shot and killed.

Ask Andrew Thomas, shot as he exited his car after a wreck. DA didn't even want to charge the cop, had to be coerced into manslaughter charges and even then they gave the cop a break on the sentencing.

Article from 4 years ago:

"I have recently challenged those who disagree to present a list of white people killed within the past few years under circumstances similar to those that so enrage us in cases such as what happened to Tamir Rice, John Crawford, Walter Scott, Sam Debose and others.

The simple fact is that this list exists.

Example go on and on. Last December in Mississippi, officers tried to stop Michael Parker for a moving violation. Parker sped away; during the ensuing chase Parker was shot dead. Last year in January, a Montana officer, suspecting Loren Simpson of car theft, referred to him to his partner as a "little f*cker" of the sort who "go steal cars, they go break into sh*t." The cops pursued Simpson, and when he tried to turn away from them they shot him dead, even though federal guidelines prohibit firing into moving vehicles. Back one more year, in 2014, the deaths of James Boyd, Alfred Redwine and Mary Hawkes in New Mexico were similar stories; what happened to Pastor Jonathan Ayers in 2009 in Georgia is but one example further back than that. (Ex-Baltimore police officer and criminology professor Peter Moskos' blog is useful for data of this kind.)"

"The parallels in these cases with ones we have heard more about are chilling. Shaver's waving the pellet gun parallels John Crawford, shot and killed two summers ago for playing with a toy BB gun at a Walmart. Dylan Noble's reaching into his pocket and being killed for it parallels what seems to have happened to Alton Sterling and other black victims. The officer's depiction of Loren Simpson as one of a menacing "they" recalls George Zimmerman's "these a**holes, they always get away" in his 911 call about Trayvon Martin."






Also from that article:

"A common response will be that cops kill more black people proportionately than whites. According to a survey by the Washington Post, whites are 62% of the population but were roughly half of those killed by cops since January 2015, while blacks are 13% of the population but were about a quarter of those killed. However, this isn't the slam dunk dismissal it may seem."

That makes sense. Blacks are 13% but commit between 30-40% of violent crime, so it makes sense that they have these fatal confrontations with cops at a rate that's more than 13%. Whites commit less than half of the murders and rapes, yet they are about half of the people killed by police.

I'm not seeing a problem with the numbers as far as a disparity, but maybe in the fact that the police could use less-than-lethal force for EVERYONE a bit more often.

Is Biden saying he will pick a black woman as VP racist, sexist, or neither? Just asking for sake of this amazingly entertaining thread.

metcalfmafia said:

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statefan91 said:

---

metcalfmafia said:

---

But if those things are not currently happening with the GI bill, then can't you say that we've eliminated that issue?

If we can't nail down a current/active policy that is racist, then how can we stop institutional racism that we are told exists?

---

If they're eliminated now, it doesn't undo the generational impact of not having it for those veterans when they came back and the successive generations that were dependent upon them.

As I said, if my grandfather had not had the GI bill, he would not have gone to college. In that case, he likely would have worked in some form of manufacturing job that would have paid decent wages but not enough to buy the house that he did in the part of town where he did. Then my mom wouldn't have gone to the good HS she did, and better teachers, and be set on the path toward college for herself.

It's clear that these benefits were denied to a majority of the african-american veterans. That means a thousands of families that were not given the same advantages as white veterans. That means thousands of children of veterans that didn't have the benefit of their fathers or mothers earning higher wages or having no debt from college.

If you don't believe the actions of your parents and grandparents have an impact on the lives you live, I don't know where to go from there?

---

So how do you suggest that we cease systemic racism other than eliminating bad practices and laws of our government?

At what point are children not defined by the actions of their families? At what point is personal responsibility and choices no longer valid? How far down the family tree from the person being wronged.

That's the issue I have.

---

Personal responsibility is a function of birth. I wrote my first dissertation on the correlation between SES and the outcomes of kids. The high correlation means that for MOST Americans, your immediate family will determine where you end up in life. That's a damn shame. For all the talk of upward mobility, there is little of it now in the US. While there are ALWAYS outliers and success stories, people born into a poor trailer, or a poor urban slum usually go no futher, and end up back where they came from. Why is this?

The reason is that advancement in the US is a function of resources and intelligence, sometimes with a little hard work. The poor, white or black, have little to no access to legal capital so they sell drugs or moonshine or engage in prostitution to raise money. Usually their habits and the law eventually stop them.

As a white person, from a "good" family, you can walk into the bank and pitch your proposal and if you have the right status markers, you will get the loan needed for your idea. What are those status markers? You degree. Where you graduated. Who your parents are and who you know on the Bank Board, etc., etc. Most kids in trailer parks don't know anyone on the local bank board.

Even if you work hard and get a decent job, a job gives you subsistence in the middle class for as long as you hold the job. It does not build wealth. You have pick and chose carefully who you work for in order to have stability. If you came out of the holler or the trailer, how much of a risk are you willing to take to get beyond the middle class - to become secure?

The poor get screwed in all capitalistic systems. In certain areas of the United States, that lowest quintile is occupied by people of color mostly because they are poor - they are and were poor first. In whatever country you visit there is a "poor" group. That group has markings, or racial features that the locals know. In the United States the poor are shown to be black, when in fact most of the poor is white. When you associated a race with poverty, you are also associating it with the vices that go with poverty. So yes, just being black is a negative and the blacker, the worse for your.

Since you learn personal responsibility at home, if those who are supposed to teach it see not tangible value in it or do not understand it how are you expected to learn what polite society expects?

There are several reasons why white people are on the hook for this:

1. White folks run things in America
2. White folks have the money needed to fund real changes
3. White people made the decisions in the past that got us here in the first place

Germans born today still bear the mark and the consequences of the Nazis. The sins of the father can be difficult to atone for and the burden falls on those yet born.

Civilized said:

---

Pacfanweb said:

---

So why aren't whites rioting when police treat one of them poorly? It happens just as often, if not MORE often.

There's the same "lack of justice" in all those instances as there is in some of the ones involving black people.

---

Because there is a long and distinguished history of black people in this country being mistreated because they are black. There is no such similar history with white people.

Why do blacks get pulled by cops at 2x the rate of whites, nationwide, and searched at 4x the rate of whites?

In a sample of 20 million traffic stops, that's the data.

If that's not racial bias in policing, what is? Come up with another plausible explanation.

And when you acknowledge that it is racial bias (because there's no other explanation), go further and ask yourself whether that singling-out of black people by cops doesn't happen in other aspects of policing?

If it happens in traffic stops, why wouldn't it happen when deciding to use force?

---

We've been over this before.
First, there's no outside evidence or study to confirm/deny the article which you're referring to or its analysis of the data. So I will count that as "dubious" until I see more, just like with any other studies that come out about any topic.

Second, yes, there is history of people being pulled over because they are black and due to some racial bias the cop may have.....30-40+ years ago.

Today, they're pulled over more often simply because they are guilty more often. Cops often go "fishing" and pull folks over just because.
And I've said before that needs to be stopped or at least reigned in quite a bit.

Fact of the matter is, though....blacks commit crime at a rate more than double their percentage of the population...and that's not because more are arrested from cops on fishing expeditions in traffic stops. It's because they simply commit more crime. There are more 911 calls from poor neighborhoods...many of which are mostly black. Poor neighborhoods are where most of the crime usually is.
Police aren't out heavily patrolling in North Ridge or Wakefield in Raleigh because there's not much going on there. There are no murders, assaults, robberies, fights, etc. going on in those places for the police to find and arrest people if only they would look for them.

They ARE patrolling heavily in South Raleigh because there's PLENTY of them to do there.

Now, again...I'll agree with you, they have probably gotten accustomed to going on these "fishing expeditions" with black people entirely too often, and that needs to be reigned in....but the problem I and others have with all the outcry is....the police are very often correct in their suspicions. And THAT needs to be addressed, too. You can't just demand the police get their proverbial crap together and not address the other side of the equation as well. And I see zero outcry about that.

RunsWithWolves26 said:

---

Is Biden saying he will pick a black woman as VP racist, sexist, or neither? Just asking for sake of this amazingly entertaining thread.

---

In reality it's a little of everything. It's too bad Condi Rice is gay otherwise she might prez instead of Trump.

lumberpack5 said:

---

RunsWithWolves26 said:

---

Is Biden saying he will pick a black woman as VP racist, sexist, or neither? Just asking for sake of this amazingly entertaining thread.

---

In reality it's a little of everything. It's too bad Condi Rice is gay otherwise she might prez instead of Trump.

---

I'd vote for her today, tomorrow, next week, next month and next year. Hell, I didn't even know she was gay and honestly, couldn't give two ****s if she is or isn't. Nor do I care what color her skin is or if she's man or woman. She's a damn fine human being and one I would be thrilled to vote for.

lumberpack5 said:

---

metcalfmafia said:

---

statefan91 said:

---

metcalfmafia said:

---

But if those things are not currently happening with the GI bill, then can't you say that we've eliminated that issue?

If we can't nail down a current/active policy that is racist, then how can we stop institutional racism that we are told exists?

---

If they're eliminated now, it doesn't undo the generational impact of not having it for those veterans when they came back and the successive generations that were dependent upon them.

As I said, if my grandfather had not had the GI bill, he would not have gone to college. In that case, he likely would have worked in some form of manufacturing job that would have paid decent wages but not enough to buy the house that he did in the part of town where he did. Then my mom wouldn't have gone to the good HS she did, and better teachers, and be set on the path toward college for herself.

It's clear that these benefits were denied to a majority of the african-american veterans. That means a thousands of families that were not given the same advantages as white veterans. That means thousands of children of veterans that didn't have the benefit of their fathers or mothers earning higher wages or having no debt from college.

If you don't believe the actions of your parents and grandparents have an impact on the lives you live, I don't know where to go from there?

---

So how do you suggest that we cease systemic racism other than eliminating bad practices and laws of our government?

At what point are children not defined by the actions of their families? At what point is personal responsibility and choices no longer valid? How far down the family tree from the person being wronged.

That's the issue I have.

---

Personal responsibility is a function of birth. I wrote my first dissertation on the correlation between SES and the outcomes of kids. The high correlation means that for MOST Americans, your immediate family will determine where you end up in life. That's a damn shame. For all the talk of upward mobility, there is little of it now in the US. While there are ALWAYS outliers and success stories, people born into a poor trailer, or a poor urban slum usually go no futher, and end up back where they came from. Why is this?

The reason is that advancement in the US is a function of resources and intelligence, sometimes with a little hard work. The poor, white or black, have little to no access to legal capital so they sell drugs or moonshine or engage in prostitution to raise money. Usually their habits and the law eventually stop them.

As a white person, from a "good" family, you can walk into the bank and pitch your proposal and if you have the right status markers, you will get the loan needed for your idea. What are those status markers? You degree. Where you graduated. Who your parents are and who you know on the Bank Board, etc., etc. Most kids in trailer parks don't know anyone on the local bank board.

Even if you work hard and get a decent job, a job gives you subsistence in the middle class for as long as you hold the job. It does not build wealth. You have pick and chose carefully who you work for in order to have stability. If you came out of the holler or the trailer, how much of a risk are you willing to take to get beyond the middle class - to become secure?

The poor get screwed in all capitalistic systems. In certain areas of the United States, that lowest quintile is occupied by people of color mostly because they are poor - they are and were poor first. In whatever country you visit there is a "poor" group. That group has markings, or racial features that the locals know. In the United States the poor are shown to be black, when in fact most of the poor is white. When you associated a race with poverty, you are also associating it with the vices that go with poverty. So yes, just being black is a negative and the blacker, the worse for your.

Since you learn personal responsibility at home, if those who are supposed to teach it see not tangible value in it or do not understand it how are you expected to learn what polite society expects?

There are several reasons why white people are on the hook for this:

1. White folks run things in America
2. White folks have the money needed to fund real changes
3. White people made the decisions in the past that got us here in the first place

Germans born today still bear the mark and the consequences of the Nazis. The sins of the father can be difficult to atone for and the burden falls on those yet born.

---

Your post essentially says "rich people run things and have gotten us to where we are now" And yes, a rich person "with the right connections" can go into a bank and get a loan that you or I cannot.

And? That's life. There are a lot more poor white people in the exact same boat as blacks, in this regard.

Us down in the middle or lower than that can still scratch out a pretty nice living, even if we are never on the level of a Rockefeller or Vanderbilt. America is the land of opportunity, some just have to work harder for it than others. That will never change.

RunsWithWolves26 said:

---

Is Biden saying he will pick a black woman as VP racist, sexist, or neither? Just asking for sake of this amazingly entertaining thread.

---

It shows equal opportunity is not important to his campaign.

RunsWithWolves26 said:

---

lumberpack5 said:

---

RunsWithWolves26 said:

---

Is Biden saying he will pick a black woman as VP racist, sexist, or neither? Just asking for sake of this amazingly entertaining thread.

---

In reality it's a little of everything. It's too bad Condi Rice is gay otherwise she might prez instead of Trump.

---

I'd vote for her today, tomorrow, next week, next month and next year. Hell, I didn't even know she was gay and honestly, couldn't give two ****s if she is or isn't. Nor do I care what color her skin is or if she's man or woman. She's a damn fine human being and one I would be thrilled to vote for.

---

The gay thing is why she couldn't run as a pub.

Pacfanweb said:

---

lumberpack5 said:

---

metcalfmafia said:

---

statefan91 said:

---

metcalfmafia said:

---

But if those things are not currently happening with the GI bill, then can't you say that we've eliminated that issue?

If we can't nail down a current/active policy that is racist, then how can we stop institutional racism that we are told exists?

---

If they're eliminated now, it doesn't undo the generational impact of not having it for those veterans when they came back and the successive generations that were dependent upon them.

As I said, if my grandfather had not had the GI bill, he would not have gone to college. In that case, he likely would have worked in some form of manufacturing job that would have paid decent wages but not enough to buy the house that he did in the part of town where he did. Then my mom wouldn't have gone to the good HS she did, and better teachers, and be set on the path toward college for herself.

It's clear that these benefits were denied to a majority of the african-american veterans. That means a thousands of families that were not given the same advantages as white veterans. That means thousands of children of veterans that didn't have the benefit of their fathers or mothers earning higher wages or having no debt from college.

If you don't believe the actions of your parents and grandparents have an impact on the lives you live, I don't know where to go from there?

---

So how do you suggest that we cease systemic racism other than eliminating bad practices and laws of our government?

At what point are children not defined by the actions of their families? At what point is personal responsibility and choices no longer valid? How far down the family tree from the person being wronged.

That's the issue I have.

---

Personal responsibility is a function of birth. I wrote my first dissertation on the correlation between SES and the outcomes of kids. The high correlation means that for MOST Americans, your immediate family will determine where you end up in life. That's a damn shame. For all the talk of upward mobility, there is little of it now in the US. While there are ALWAYS outliers and success stories, people born into a poor trailer, or a poor urban slum usually go no futher, and end up back where they came from. Why is this?

The reason is that advancement in the US is a function of resources and intelligence, sometimes with a little hard work. The poor, white or black, have little to no access to legal capital so they sell drugs or moonshine or engage in prostitution to raise money. Usually their habits and the law eventually stop them.

As a white person, from a "good" family, you can walk into the bank and pitch your proposal and if you have the right status markers, you will get the loan needed for your idea. What are those status markers? You degree. Where you graduated. Who your parents are and who you know on the Bank Board, etc., etc. Most kids in trailer parks don't know anyone on the local bank board.

Even if you work hard and get a decent job, a job gives you subsistence in the middle class for as long as you hold the job. It does not build wealth. You have pick and chose carefully who you work for in order to have stability. If you came out of the holler or the trailer, how much of a risk are you willing to take to get beyond the middle class - to become secure?

The poor get screwed in all capitalistic systems. In certain areas of the United States, that lowest quintile is occupied by people of color mostly because they are poor - they are and were poor first. In whatever country you visit there is a "poor" group. That group has markings, or racial features that the locals know. In the United States the poor are shown to be black, when in fact most of the poor is white. When you associated a race with poverty, you are also associating it with the vices that go with poverty. So yes, just being black is a negative and the blacker, the worse for your.

Since you learn personal responsibility at home, if those who are supposed to teach it see not tangible value in it or do not understand it how are you expected to learn what polite society expects?

There are several reasons why white people are on the hook for this:

1. White folks run things in America
2. White folks have the money needed to fund real changes
3. White people made the decisions in the past that got us here in the first place

Germans born today still bear the mark and the consequences of the Nazis. The sins of the father can be difficult to atone for and the burden falls on those yet born.

---

Your post essentially says "rich people run things and have gotten us to where we are now" And yes, a rich person "with the right connections" can go into a bank and get a loan that you or I cannot.

And? That's life. There are a lot more poor white people in the exact same boat as blacks, in this regard.

Us down in the middle or lower than that can still scratch out a pretty nice living, even if we are never on the level of a Rockefeller or Vanderbilt. America is the land of opportunity, some just have to work harder for it than others. That will never change.

---

I'm glad you recognize that opportunity is not equal.

lumberpack5 said:

---

RunsWithWolves26 said:

---

lumberpack5 said:

---

RunsWithWolves26 said:

---

Is Biden saying he will pick a black woman as VP racist, sexist, or neither? Just asking for sake of this amazingly entertaining thread.

---

In reality it's a little of everything. It's too bad Condi Rice is gay otherwise she might prez instead of Trump.

---

I'd vote for her today, tomorrow, next week, next month and next year. Hell, I didn't even know she was gay and honestly, couldn't give two ****s if she is or isn't. Nor do I care what color her skin is or if she's man or woman. She's a damn fine human being and one I would be thrilled to vote for.

---

The gay thing is why she couldn't run as a pub.

---

Then run as a dem. I'd still vote for her. As an independent, I couldn't care less about the political party.

lumberpack5 said:

---

RunsWithWolves26 said:

---

lumberpack5 said:

---

RunsWithWolves26 said:

---

Is Biden saying he will pick a black woman as VP racist, sexist, or neither? Just asking for sake of this amazingly entertaining thread.

---

In reality it's a little of everything. It's too bad Condi Rice is gay otherwise she might prez instead of Trump.

---

I'd vote for her today, tomorrow, next week, next month and next year. Hell, I didn't even know she was gay and honestly, couldn't give two ****s if she is or isn't. Nor do I care what color her skin is or if she's man or woman. She's a damn fine human being and one I would be thrilled to vote for.

---

The gay thing is why she couldn't run as a pub.

---

Then run as a dem. As an independent, I couldn't care less what political party she is.

Haley/Rice (or vice-versa) 2024?

Pacfanweb said:

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Haley/Rice (or vice-versa) 2024?

---

Haley has proven herself damn smart. Like of a lot of black women, Condi is a lot older than you might think (67). She would be 71. The Veep should not be a Geezer leading to a wide open free for all primary. That killed Shrubs presidency. If he had not brought Cheney onto the ticket, he could have missed a number of minefields.

Still waiting on an example of current, institutional racism in the United States today. Something we can fight and eliminate.

Otherwise, we're chasing a ghost here.

lumberpack5 said:

---

metcalfmafia said:

---

Still waiting on an example of current, institutional racism in the United States today. Something we can fight and eliminate.

Otherwise, we're chasing a ghost here.

---

The redlining of black owned property.

---

Current. Something that hasn't been acted out in government.

There have been at least two acts ending this practice.

lumberpack5 said:

---

metcalfmafia said:

---

lumberpack5 said:

---

metcalfmafia said:

---

Still waiting on an example of current, institutional racism in the United States today. Something we can fight and eliminate.

Otherwise, we're chasing a ghost here.

---

The redlining of black owned property.

---

Current. Something that hasn't been acted out in government.

There have been at least two acts ending this practice.

---

If I beat the **** out of your daughter for 20 years and she finally divorces me, what do I owe her for 20 years worth of beatings? Nothing? Is she whole after my 20 years of abuse.

Stopping something is not the same as righting a wrong.

---

I don't even know what to say to that hyperbolic **** show of a response, but anywho.

If we want to talk about redlining and how government actions to end it are not enough. What needs to be done to help those that fell victim to that practice?

lumberpack5 said:

---

RunsWithWolves26 said:

---

Is Biden saying he will pick a black woman as VP racist, sexist, or neither? Just asking for sake of this amazingly entertaining thread.

---

In reality it's a little of everything. It's too bad Condi Rice is gay otherwise she might prez instead of Trump.

---

Didn't know she was a lesbian.

lumberpack5 said:

---

metcalfmafia said:

---

lumberpack5 said:

---

metcalfmafia said:

---

Still waiting on an example of current, institutional racism in the United States today. Something we can fight and eliminate.

Otherwise, we're chasing a ghost here.

---

The redlining of black owned property.

---

Current. Something that hasn't been acted out in government.

There have been at least two acts ending this practice.

---

If I beat the **** out of your daughter for 20 years and she finally divorces me, what do I owe her for 20 years worth of beatings? Nothing? Is she whole after my 20 years of abuse.

Stopping something is not the same as righting a wrong.

---

Someone beats the hell out of my daughter i'll put a 308 between their eyes and sleep very well at night.

metcalfmafia said:

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hereforguerrilla said:

---

Agreed, all I want is to ensure that the small minority of bad officers know that there is always transparency and accountability--so they will either see themselves out or see themselves to jail.

---

Preach! Why are we even able to turn body cameras off anyway?

---

You have to have an on/off button. How else would you turn them on if the battery died.

cowboypack02 said:

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metcalfmafia said:

---

hereforguerrilla said:

---

Agreed, all I want is to ensure that the small minority of bad officers know that there is always transparency and accountability--so they will either see themselves out or see themselves to jail.

---

Preach! Why are we even able to turn body cameras off anyway?

---

You have to have an on/off button. How else would you turn them on if the battery died.

---

Meant that they should not be able to turn them off while they are being worn.

RunsWithWolves26 said:

---

Is Biden saying he will pick a black woman as VP racist, sexist, or neither? Just asking for sake of this amazingly entertaining thread.

---

I'm gonna take this just because i want to humor you...

Racism: Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group

Biden saying that he will only consider and pick a black woman for VP is quite literally meets the definition of being racist....

metcalfmafia said:

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cowboypack02 said:

---

metcalfmafia said:

---

hereforguerrilla said:

---

Agreed, all I want is to ensure that the small minority of bad officers know that there is always transparency and accountability--so they will either see themselves out or see themselves to jail.

---

Preach! Why are we even able to turn body cameras off anyway?

---

You have to have an on/off button. How else would you turn them on if the battery died.

---

Meant that they should not be able to turn them off while they are being worn.

---

Gotcha. I don't know if it will work like that but there should be a requirement to wear it and a punishment if you don't outside of extenuating circumstances