Pacfanweb said:

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In what way are they not equal?
What opportunity do poor white people have that blacks do not?

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The fact that you even ask this illustrates how much white America turns a blind eye to the problems.

Poor white Americans have the opportunity to...

Be pulled over at only half the rate, and searched for contraband at one-quarter the rate of black people even though contraband is found on black people at a lower rate than whites.
Be arrested for marijuana possession at rate of only one-quarter the rate of black people, even though marijuana use by both races is approximately the same.
Be charged with or convicted of crimes at a significantly lower rate than blacks even when the evidence presented to the prosecutor is similar (read about charging bias amongst prosecutors).
Have their pain be treated more appropriately than blacks in medical settings.
Have more access to capital, including loans, that are not granted at predatory rates.
Have access to healthy, fresh fruits and vegetables in grocery stores proximate to their place of residence.
Have access to primary schools that are not predominantly free and reduced lunch (77% of black students attend schools that are high-poverty or mid-high poverty schools; 31% of whites attend the same).

Being poor is disadvantageous in this country for all races, but it's much better to be poor and white than poor and any other race.

A lot of people think the reality that blacks were enslaved for hundreds of years and the fact that outcomes in every major measurable - education, wealth, health care, employment, incarceration, criminal justice - are worse for black Americans, are just a weird coincidence.

That's preposterous.

You know who else tops the list of horrible outcomes by ethnicity? Native Americans. 90% of them killed by viruses, many of the rest picked off to further goals of colonialism, and most of the rest rounded up and put on reservations. Fast forward 200 years. Horrible outcomes. Education level. Suicide. Depression. Teen pregnancy. Alcoholism. Also a coincidence?

News flash for some of you: subjugating entire races of people for centuries ends poorly for everyone involved, especially for the subjugated minority.

Civilized said:

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Pacfanweb said:

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In what way are they not equal?
What opportunity do poor white people have that blacks do not?

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The fact that you even ask this illustrates how much white America turns a blind eye to the problems.

Poor white Americans have the opportunity to...

Be pulled over at only half the rate, and searched for contraband at one-quarter the rate of black people even though contraband is found on black people at a lower rate than whites.
Be arrested for marijuana possession at rate of only one-quarter the rate of black people, even though marijuana use by both races is approximately the same.
Be charged with or convicted of crimes at a significantly lower rate than blacks even when the evidence presented to the prosecutor is similar (read about charging bias amongst prosecutors).
Have their pain be treated more appropriately than blacks in medical settings.
Have more access to capital, including loans, that are not granted at predatory rates.
Have access to healthy, fresh fruits and vegetables in grocery stores proximate to their place of residence.
Have access to primary schools that are not predominantly free and reduced lunch (77% of black students attend schools that are high-poverty or mid-high poverty schools; 31% of whites attend the same).

Being poor is disadvantageous in this country for all races, but it's much better to be poor and white than poor and any other race.

A lot of people think the reality that blacks were enslaved for hundreds of years and the fact that outcomes in every major measurable - education, wealth, health care, employment, incarceration, criminal justice - are worse for black Americans, are just a weird coincidence.

That's preposterous.

You know who else tops the list of horrible outcomes by ethnicity? Native Americans. 90% of them killed by viruses, many of the rest picked off to further goals of colonialism, and most of the rest rounded up and put on reservations. Fast forward 200 years. Horrible outcomes. Education level. Suicide. Depression. Teen pregnancy. Alcoholism. Also a coincidence?

News flash for some of you: subjugating entire races of people for centuries ends poorly for everyone involved, especially for the subjugated minority.

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I really wanted to chime in on your poor white american's comment, because you have no idea about my life.

• Be pulled over at only half the rate, and searched for contraband at one-quarter the rate of black people even though contraband is found on black people at a lower rate than whites. Since I got my license I have been pulled out of my car on seven different occasions, put in handcuffs for three of those times, never was arrested, never got a ticket. Every single one of those occasions besides one it was a black cop pulling me over
• Be arrested for marijuana possession at rate of only one-quarter the rate of black people, even though marijuana use by both races is approximately the same. Someone doing drugs in on them, if they didn't want to get busted for it then they shouldn't of done it. I have never done any drugs
• Be charged with or convicted of crimes at a significantly lower rate than blacks even when the evidence presented to the prosecutor is similar (read about charging bias amongst prosecutors). I've never been charged with a crime. Do you want to know why? I've do everything in my power to avoid being in a position that it might look like i've committed a crime. Yet again a personal decision on my part.
• Have their pain be treated more appropriately than blacks in medical settings. What the hell does this even mean? I never went to the doctor's office or dentist as a kid, because my family couldn't afford it.
• Have more access to capital, including loans, that are not granted at predatory rates. When i started my first job i made 8 bucks an hour, no one was giving me a loan for anything. I had to ride my bike the 4 miles to work each day because that's all i had.
• Have access to healthy, fresh fruits and vegetables in grocery stores proximate to their place of residence. I grew up on hamburger helper, spaghetti, and peanut butter sandwiches because we didn't have anything else. Breakfast most mornings was a pack of nabs. the only vegetables that i had were the frozen ones. I never had anything else until i got i went to college, that I had to borrow money to go to
• Have access to primary schools that are not predominantly free and reduced lunch (77% of black students attend schools that are high-poverty or mid-high poverty schools; 31% of whites attend the same). I went to a predominately black school, and was picked on daily because i was one of the few white kids in my class and on the bus. My parents tried to send me somewhere else but couldn't afford it. I had to deal with that until high school.

I grew up in a single wide trailer in a trailer park with my dad working two jobs and my mom waitressing at night to make ends meet. Dad slept on the couch with a shotgun because we kept on getting broken into at night. I wasn't allowed to go outside because i got the hell beat out of me by the black kids in the neighborhood. My white color didn't help me at all man. Kids that i grew up with that were shot and killed or died of an OD.

You know what I did do? After my first year at college I came hope and took a dirty, ****ty job making 8 bucks an hour laying up fiberglass for 10 hours a day. You want to know why i took that job instead of something easier? Because the company would pay for college if you decided that you wanted to attend as long as you passed your classes. There were right at 40 people in my department and only 3-4 of them were white. Everyone else was either black or hispanic. Want to take a guess how many people there to advantage of that opportunity? Just me. I got a college degree out of it.

My color hasn't benefited me. It hasn't opened up some magical door for me to make everything ok in my life. I grew up in a poor rough area just like black folks. I went to the same schools and worked the same jobs. I've been harassed by the cops for no reason. I've had the hell beat out of me by people of another race because my skin was a different color.

I'm gonna tell you something else. I'm a hell of a lot better off than my parents were at my age. I am the one who worked hard and made the right decisions to put myself in a place to succeed. Nobody has given me a damn thing. I've had to earn every single inch that I have gained in my life through my own blood, sweat and tears. I made the difference in my life. My color didn't make a difference, and that fact that you think it did is a ******* joke.

Everyone in life isn't gonna make it. Not everyone is gonna be successful. There are white kids that i grew up with in the same neighborhood that are dead or in jail because of their decisions. There are white kids that i grew up with living in the exact same single wide as their parents did. That's not my fault. The sad thing is that even when you work hard and do everything you can you might still fail. That isn't racism, that's life.

I've had black friends that have become teachers, lawyers and police. They have worked hard and created a better life for their children and i am happy for them. I makes me happy that they have succeeded in life....it makes me happy when anyone makes it out of a bad situation.

That's why i don't buy into the whole underprivileged argument that folks seem to like. I've lived that life and I made it out. I survived it. My skin color didn't help me out...i helped me out. I earned it. Its damn presumptuous for you or anyone to think that someone can't do that just because they are in a bad situation or because of their skin color.

Damn dude....

Pacfanweb said:

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And I don't know where he gets that whites and blacks use pot at the same rate. That's not true at all. Blacks use it at a much higher rate.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3419382/#!po=0.568182

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You're reading that study wrong, bro.

That's a sample only of folks that have a substance abuse problem. It says that amongst only black people with a substance abuse problem, marijuana is more likely to be a drug they abuse as compared to white people.

That's much different than rates of use.

Here's one chronicling rates of use:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5599376/

"Specifically, in 12th grade, non-Hispanic whites were significantly more likely to use marijuana compared with Black students in each year from 2006 through 2008 (p<0.001); after 2008, there was no significant difference in use for any year except 2013, when Black students were more likely to use than White students (p<0.01)."

Here's another:



https://www.brookings.edu/blog/brookings-now/2017/08/11/charts-of-the-week-marijuana-use-by-race/

"Black Americans are nearly 3.5 times as likely to be arrested for marijuana possession, although, as research from Social Mobility Memos shows, marijuana use is nearly the same between black and white Americans."

Pacfanweb said:

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A lot of that stuff that Civilized posted might have been true forty or fifty years ago. But not today.
Sounds like a whole laundry list of excuses to me.

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Might have been true 40 or 50 years ago?

Sadly, no.

What you meant to say was it might have been true...

In 2017 and 2018:
Blacks pulled over 2x as much and searched for contraband 4x as much as whites
https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/suspect-citizens/A399F1EEA04CFCFC18D750AC0095AD96
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1607.05376.pdf

In 2017:
Blacks arrested for marijuana possession 3.5x more frequently than whites
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/brookings-now/2017/08/11/charts-of-the-week-marijuana-use-by-race/

In 2013 and 2016:
Be charged with or convicted of crimes at a significantly lower rate than blacks even when the evidence presented to the prosecutor is similar (read about charging bias amongst prosecutors).
https://www.yalelawjournal.org/article/mandatory-sentencing-and-racial-disparity-assessing-the-role-of-prosecutors-and-the-effects-of-booker
https://www.dailypress.com/news/dp-nws-sunshine-disparities-20160317-story.html

In 2020:
Have their pain be treated more appropriately than blacks in medical settings.
https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/how-we-fail-black-patients-pain

In 2015:
Have more access to capital, including loans, that are not granted at predatory rates.
https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/public_comments/2015/12/00017-99877.pdf

In 2014:
Have access to healthy, fresh fruits and vegetables in grocery stores proximate to their place of residence.
https://hub.jhu.edu/magazine/2014/spring/racial-food-deserts/

In 2016:
Have access to primary schools that are not predominantly free and reduced lunch (77% of black students attend schools that are high-poverty or mid-high poverty schools; 31% of whites attend the same).
https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=898

cowboypack02 said:

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Civilized said:

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Nothing you said refutes my answers to Pacfanweb's question.

Acknowledging white privilege doesn't diminish your accomplishments.

The question has never been whether a white person has the opportunity to work his way out of a trailer park. The question is, do a black person and white person that both grow up in a trailer park have the same opportunities to make it out? That answer is no, if you're being honest with yourself.

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Honest with myself?

There was a paragraph about how some of the black kids in the trailer park have survived that environment and some of the white kids in that same trailer park are in dead or in jail and your go to is that acknowledging white privilege doesn't take away fromy accomplishments? Where is the white privilege of those white kids?

If it exist, I've never seen it. You must be living a helluva lot better life than I have. Hell...living in a different world than I have.

If the situation was reversed and I was a black kid getting pulled by the white cops and getting handcuffed, or the black kid getting beat up by the white kids because my skin color was different, you would tell me that I was treated differently because of my race, but because it wasn't I still need to acknowledge my white privilege?

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You've never seen it because you're evidently only focused on your experience and the six other kids in your neighborhood, instead of the 15 million kids living in poverty in this country.

Your life is important to you and your loved ones - as well it should be - but it's a sample size of one.

There's so much more information out there if you just look for it.

Dear black people on this forum. I'm sorry. I'm sorry you have to hear this BS over and over again. Coming from the same people that say the N word like it's nothing, will hire white people before you in a second, will lose their sh*t if your black son dates their daughter. But they don't see the racism. Of course they don't. You deal with racism and fear for your kids and this pansy is upset about Leftists, "cancel culture," the scary government trying to control him by making him wear a mask. Don't worry Guerrilla, I'll respond to your manifesto on how whites sleep better at night. For all of those on here staying quiet, uncomfortable with this conversation, but claiming to not be racist and "have black friends"--feel free to step in and help while I tackle this piece by piece over the course of the day. And you can even use facts, not spew BS stated like its fact like our poor, oppressed friend here.

I am canceling CPI bc the CEO made clearly racist comments. I canceled Mosquito Joe's for comments that were offensive to me. That's my prerogative. I'm not going to knowingly give my money to companies where the leadership voices opinions that are racist.

hereforguerrilla said:

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Dear black people on this forum. I'm sorry. I'm sorry you have to hear this BS over and over again. Coming from the same people that say the N word like it's nothing, will hire white people before you in a second, will lose their sh*t if your black son dates their daughter. But they don't see the racism. Of course they don't. You deal with racism and fear for your kids and this pansy is upset about Leftists, "cancel culture," the scary government trying to control him by making him wear a mask. Don't worry Guerrilla, I'll respond to your manifesto on how whites sleep better at night. For all of those on here staying quiet, uncomfortable with this conversation, but claiming to not be racist and "have black friends"--feel free to step in and help while I tackle this piece by piece over the course of the day. And you can even use facts, not spew BS stated like its fact like our poor, oppressed friend here.

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Your username is a 100.

This isn't rocket science. There aren't riots due to black on black crime because it is considered crime, it will be treated as such by our criminal justice system. Just like white on white crime or any other type of crime. It will be investigated and in most cases someone will go to jail. People are rioting because there is a lack of actual justice in our justice system for cases of police brutality. It really isn't that complicated.

The police aren't here to protect people if "their" house is in order. They are here to protect and serve and be held accountable if they don't do that. It is pretty simple. Parents sometimes kill their kids. Does that mean if a police officer is caught on video strangling a kid...well, that is too bad, but you know, more parents kill their kids than police officers do so...let's just move on. We won't hold those officers accountable until there are zero deaths or at least fewer deaths by kids at the hands of their parents.

hereforguerrilla said:

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I am canceling CPI bc the CEO made clearly racist comments. I canceled Mosquito Joe's for comments that were offensive to me. That's my prerogative. I'm not going to knowingly give my money to companies where the leadership voices opinions that are racist.

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Incoming!!! YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG. YOU CANCEL-CULTURING SOB!!!11 YOU'RE EVERYTHING WRONG WITH SOCIAL MEDIA/'MURICA/LIFE!!11

Sounds like you're just letting your pocketbook be an extension of your values, and you're not alone.

Corporate leaders and those in highly visible positions are welcome to say whatever inane or insensitive **** they want, but consumers are responding to corporate ethics and culture more than ever before.

This is a tipping point. Many Americans were not going to change their dug-in thinking about social and racial equity issues until not doing so started hurting their pocketbook. We're now at that point.

Check out the FBI data of white on white crime! Dude, log off, your house is in disarray! Better fix it or that means bad cops can kill you with no repercussions. https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-3.xls

Civilized said:

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hereforguerrilla said:

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I am canceling CPI bc the CEO made clearly racist comments. I canceled Mosquito Joe's for comments that were offensive to me. That's my prerogative. I'm not going to knowingly give my money to companies where the leadership voices opinions that are racist.

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Incoming!!! YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG. YOU CANCEL-CULTURING SOB!!!11 YOU'RE EVERYTHING WRONG WITH SOCIAL MEDIA/'MURICA/LIFE!!11

Sounds like you're just letting your pocketbook be an extension of your values, and you're not alone.

Corporate leaders and those in highly visible positions are welcome to say whatever inane or insensitive **** they want, but consumers are responding to corporate ethics and culture more than ever before.

This is a tipping point. Many Americans were not going to change their dug-in thinking about social and racial equity issues until not doing so started hurting their pocketbook. We're now at that point.

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We're at the tipping point for Twitter. That's it. The vast majority of people don't give a **** about your woke responses, trying to cancel restaurants and alarm companies. Chic FilA still whooping that woke ass. That's why Trump won last time. That's why Trump will win again. Murica doesn't like the woke.

Sure did. My husband told me about this thread so here I am, my insidepack debut. I have zero hope that I'll get through to guerrilla and his District 1 folks but for people of color that are seeing this...really I'm here for them.

hereforguerrilla said:

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Sure did. My husband told me about this thread so here I am, my insidepack debut. I have zero hope that I'll get through to guerrilla and his District 1 folks but for people of color that are seeing this...really I'm here for them.

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Welcome!

GuerrillaPack said:

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hereforguerrilla said:

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This isn't rocket science. There aren't riots due to black on black crime because it is considered crime, it will be treated as such by our criminal justice system. Just like white on white crime or any other type of crime. It will be investigated and in most cases someone will go to jail. People are rioting because there is a lack of actual justice in our justice system for cases of police brutality. It really isn't that complicated.

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hereforguerrilla said:

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The police aren't here to protect people if "their" house is in order. They are here to protect and serve and be held accountable if they don't do that. It is pretty simple. Parents sometimes kill their kids. Does that mean if a police officer is caught on video strangling a kid...well, that is too bad, but you know, more parents kill their kids than police officers do so...let's just move on. We won't hold those officers accountable until there are zero deaths or at least fewer deaths by kids at the hands of their parents.

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Guess what genius? Those 4 police officers in Minneapolis were arrested and are being charged with murder.

So why is the Leftist mob burning down cities? The officers ARE being held accountable. Is that not enough? What more do the rioting Leftist mobs want?

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Do you think they would have been charged if a bystander hadn't filmed it and protesting hadn't ensued? No, he was just removed from duty WITH PAY. His initial story was that George Floyd was resisting. Do some research on how often officers are charged. Then on how often they are convicted. Then on how often they actually serve time. I think those crazy rioting leftist mobs want to ensure that actual transparency and change happens, not just justice actually being given in this one case. But who knows with those crazy leftist rioting mobs.

GuerrillaPack said:

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hereforguerrilla said:

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Dear black people on this forum. I'm sorry. I'm sorry you have to hear this BS over and over again. Coming from the same people that say the N word like it's nothing, will hire white people before you in a second, will lose their sh*t if your black son dates their daughter. But they don't see the racism. Of course they don't. You deal with racism and fear for your kids and this pansy is upset about Leftists, "cancel culture," the scary government trying to control him by making him wear a mask. Don't worry Guerrilla, I'll respond to your manifesto on how whites sleep better at night. For all of those on here staying quiet, uncomfortable with this conversation, but claiming to not be racist and "have black friends"--feel free to step in and help while I tackle this piece by piece over the course of the day. And you can even use facts, not spew BS stated like its fact like our poor, oppressed friend here.

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Wow, nice first post Mr. Politically Correct user. Welcome to the forum. How brave of you to toe the Establishment line to come here and fight those "ebil Raysists" who dare to oppose the Leftist Establishment agenda. It's not like we ever hear these Leftist, pro-Establishment arguments -- as we are literally bombarded with them 50 times per day via the propaganda in the Leftist "news" media, Hollywood, commercials on television, etc. We needed you here to champion the Establishment Leftist cause.

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Dang Guerrilla, are your feathers always so easily ruffled? That must be so oppressive being "literally bombarded" with so much propaganda. I could be bombarded "literally" by Right Wing Anti-Establishment (oh you're right, so much scarier when you initial caps...) propaganda if I turned on Fox News, Drudge, Rush...but I don't. So why don't you just...here's an idea...NOT watch/follow the scary oppressive Leftist media? Oh wait, you kind of like it though don't you? Feeling oppressed when you are so far from it. You do you man.