Of course I realize this seems "totally insane" to even consider, but hear me out.

My position is this: Based on observable evidence (to follow), I reject the "official" or "orthodox" claims as to the nature of the earth and universe offered by the scientific Establishment of today -- specifically the claim of a globular earth spinning on its axis and circling the sun, which is contained in a galaxy that is travelling through an immensely large universe that is expanding after a "Big Bang".

First of all, people need to realize that so-called "scientists" are not infallible, and are not always correct in their assertions. To the contrary, they are usually wrong -- from a historical perspective. If you look at history, the "consensus" on issues related to science (or medicine) is constantly changing, and being revised. Most of what scientists deal with are even officially classified as "theories". Why? Because even scientists, when honest, must admit that they do not know with certainty the details of the nature of the universe or how the "laws" of the universe operate. As even admitted by scientists, things such as the "Big Bang" and the theory of evolution are still officially classified as theories - and not "laws" of the universe. And, things such as the heliocentric model, as well as the claim of a globular-shaped earth, are ALSO technically still theoretical - and not proven.

Another thing to consider when looking at this subject, is that the Bible has many scriptures which directly contradict the "orthodox" scientific model of the universe. The Bible describes the earth as "fixed" and "immovable" (Psalm 93:1). The Bible also talks about a "firmament" above the "heavens" (ie, sky) -- which alludes to a solid barrier (ie, "dome"), which contains the atmosphere. Also, the Bible clearly states many times that it is the sun that rises and sets (ie, that the sun is moving relative to the earth, and not the other way around). The Bible, therefore, supports the notion that the earth is not moving, and not spinning around and whizzing through space at thousands of miles an hour.

A lot can be said on this subject, but here are just a few of the main arguments against the "orthodox" scientific model of the earth and universe:

1. The stars, as seen from the earth, have been observed for centuries to stay in the exact same positions relative to one another. This is why, for example, we are able to have constellations which have not changed in thousands of years. But this would be impossible according to the orthodox/Establishment model of the universe -- because if the earth was truly whizzing around the universe in the Milky Way galaxy and traversing billions of miles every year through the universe, then the position of the stars relative to one another would be constantly changing. This is referred to as "stellar parralax." The way that the scientific Establishment "solves" this problem is by claiming that the universe is so incredibly large (with VAST distances between the earth and the stars), that our movement relative to them does not cause an observable difference in the position of the stars over hundreds and thousands of years.

2. Under the "orthodox" model of the earth and universe, with the earth supposedly whizzing around the sun at thousands of miles an hour, what keeps the atmosphere of the earth from "blowing away"? Is is really the gravitational pull of the earth which does this? The same scientific establishment claims that comets are flying through space, and that the comet's "tail" is caused by dust and gas being "released" or blown off from the comet. So why doesn't this also happen to the earth?

Also, the orthodox model claims that "space" is a vacuum. Yet this space supposedly, at some point, abuts next to the atmosphere of the earth. If this was the case, then the vacuum of space would suck away the atmosphere of the earth. I presume that scientists would claim that this problem is solved due to the "gravitational force of the earth being greater than the force of the vacuum". Yet, if you create a vacuum (in a lab) here on earth, it will suck away gasses "upward", and thus NOT be overcome by the gravitational pull of the earth.

3. Many observations (with photographs, etc) demonstrate that we are able to see for much greater distances than should be possible if the earth were a globe with a circumference of 24,900 miles. For example, people are able to take photographs of mountains that are fully visible (from top to bottom), from distances of hundreds of miles away, when (under the "orthodox" model) they should be "hidden from view due to the curvature of the earth"). There are dozens/hundreds of prominent examples of this, easy to find on YouTube and elsewhere on the internet. Here is a well known one, where network television reported on the fact that the entire Chicago skyline is visible from almost 60 miles away over lake Michigan.

Many experiments have been conducted, over the last few hundred years, that demonstrate that there is actually no observable "curvature" to the earth. One of the first, and most well known, was an experiment in the 1830s in England by Samuel Rowbotham, where he looked down a 6-mile stretch of a canal using a telescope and was able to observe a flag on a boat located 3 feet above the water's surface (which should have been hidden by a 24 ft "drop" in the surface of the water if the earth was curved). The surface of the water was/is completely flat -- as are the surfaces of all large bodies of water on the earth.

Also, let me add here, that boats are not truly "dropping over the curve" of the earth when you look at them from the sea or lake shore. This is a "phenomenon" that is explained by the limits of sight of the human eye, and the law of perspective, mirages that occur on the surfaces of water, and atmospheric lensing/refraction (where the water vapor in the air magnifies distant objects, causing them to disappear when close to the horizon). You can observe a boat "vanish" with your naked eye, but if you have a telescope or high-powered camera by your side, you can many times zoom in a see that the boat is still visible. There are many videos on YouTube demonstrating this. Also, the sun does not "drop" down below the earth when it sets on the horizon. It vanishes due to these same phenomena.

4. NASA are proven liars -- on a GARGANTUAN scale. Anyone who seriously investigates NASA will find that they are perpetrating huge lies, deceptions, and hoaxes on the general public. The supposed "moon landings" are the most prominent and easily provable deceptions. And think about it....if NASA (and the entire Establishment media and academia, etc) is willing to lie and fool the public about something as big as the "moon landings", then WHAT ELSE do you think they are lying to you about? Everything else that NASA and the scientific/academic Establishment claims, and their motives, MUST be called into question. And when you investigate the many other claims of NASA, they are again and again found to be hoaxes and lies -- including the international space station, the Mars "landing", etc.

5. Related to point #4 above, the next question is "why"? What is the motive for all these lies? Why is NASA and the entire scientific Establishment lying to the public on a massive scale regarding all of these things? Well look at things like the theory of evolution and the Big Bang, as examples of lies pushed by the scientific Establishment. Both the theory of evolution and the Big Bang are laughably false deceptions, with absolutely zero real evidence to support them. Yet why does the scientific Establishment promote these deceptions? Because they have an agenda to push -- an "atheistic" agenda, let's say. Actually, at its core, a Satanic agenda. The same Satanic agenda pushed by the ruling Establishment in so many other areas of our society (eg, Hollywood, Marxism, the "New World Order" agenda, etc).

If you research the history of the men who formulated and pushed the heliocentric theory back in the 1500s (Copernicus, etc), you will find that these men were Freemasons (which is an occult/Satanic secret society), and that the motive for their theories was to "combat" the Bible and religion. The whole purpose of their theories was to attempt to "disprove" the Bible.

So, when you actually think about it....theories such as the "theory of evolution", the "Big Bang theory", and the heliocentric model are actually RELIGIOUS beliefs. They are theories pushing an atheistic religious agenda. They are NOT true science -- because true science is based in observation and what can be proven by evidence and logic.

In the end, when you boil it all down, it comes back to the Bible and God. The Bible says that the earth is immovable. It places the earth at the center of God's creation, and says that mankind is, therefore, one of God's most important creations.

The model of the universe pushed by the "orthodox" scientific Establishment (run by Freemasons, Marxists, etc) is designed to deny the truth of the Bible, and therefore to deny the existence of God altogether. Their model says that the universe was created "by chance" in a big explosion, and that the earth is just some "infinitesimally small spec of dust" in relation to the entire universe, and that mankind is just some "accident" that "evolved by chance" into existence.

Modern-day "scientists" are akin to "high priests" in today's "post-Christian" secular Western world. They are the "unquestionable experts" who act in a quasi-religious capacity to provide us with the "proof" as to the most important questions in life -- eg, about the origins of life, the nature of the universe, etc. And the religion of these scientific high priests is atheism, and the denial of the existence of God. And this is why so many people get upset at people who reject and deny the theory of evolution, and also at those who deny the "moon landings" or other NASA/Establishment claims about the nature of the universe. Why? Because you are attacking the pillars of their atheistic religion. You are offending their core religious (atheistic) belief system.

One of the reasons I wanted to post on this topic now is because censorship (on major internet sites; not on IPS) is accelerating very rapidly on even this subject, and it may soon be difficult to find information -- especially on YouTube, which has already acted to censor and suppress videos on these topics, and may act in the near future to completely ban content that questions the Establishment view.

Here is one decent video I saw recently as food for thought:

One of the best and most well-known researchers in the "flat earth" movement is Eric Dubay. He has a good channel on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0_CSKUIVVFlfocgezQEBDg

Here is one of his best videos, "200 Proofs Earth is Not a Spinning Ball". It's long, but worth the viewing if you want a good introduction to this information:

RunsWithWolves26 said:

---

He's backkkk!

---

I've kinda missed Guerrilla to be honest

Pacfanweb said:

---

The Earth IS spherical. It's beyond any shadow of a doubt. Not debatable. We've seen it from the Moon, from space, from both sides and all sides at once.

---

Not only is it debatable, but when you do engage in a real debate (ie, true consideration of the other side of the argument) and investigation into the evidence, you will find that the evidence does not support a spherical earth.

Most people have never had even an "internal debate" (within their own mind) about this issue -- as well as many other important issues. Most people just unquestionably believe whatever they are told to believe by the government, academia/schools, and the Establishment media.

I'm willing to have an actual debate and examination into this. Because I'm not afraid of looking at the evidence, and then making a judgement based on wherever the evidence/logic leads.

I addressed the issue of the "photos" of earth in the "moon landing" hoax thread several months ago. There are no genuine photos of a "spherical" earth that have been taken "from space". They are all fraudulent (ie, CGI/photoshopped, etc). Just taking a quick look at the photos, they appear fake. Upon close inspection, you can see duplicate cloud formations and other anomalies in the images. Then, a few years back, a NASA employee came out and admitted that the images are photoshopped.

The alleged "photos of the spherical earth from space" provided by NASA over the years have huge discrepancies and problems. Continents appear very different in size, etc. Here are several of the alleged "photos". Notice the huge discrepancy in the size of North America in the 2012 "photo" versus the others.



It has been admitted (by NASA employee Robert Simmon) that the alleged "photos" of the entire (spherical) earth from space are created in photoshop. He is recorded saying this (see article and video below). You can even see obvious evidence of the photoshop in many of the "images" from NASA of the "spherical earth", because they contain duplicate/identical cloud formations that have just been copied and pasted.

Here's an article with the NASA employee (Robert Simmon) admitting the images are photoshopped: https://qz.com/192700/the-guy-who-created-iphones-earth-image-explains-why-he-needed-to-fake-it/amp/

The article claims that NASA's only photos of the "full earth" are from the Apollo missions...(but we know those are fake too). They say that more recent photos are from satellites in low earth orbit, and so they have to "stitch together" photos and photoshop them to create a full sphere.

Here's Obama's White House channel even admitting the images are CGI:



Here's a video including audio of the NASA employee (Robert Simmon) admitting that the images are photoshopped:




As mentioned in the White House video above, NASA claims that they launched this satellite in 2015 called "DSCOVR" that will orbit 1 million miles above the earth. And that with this they will finally be able to give us real photos of the whole earth.

Well, in 2016 they released what they claim are time-lapsed photos from this DSCOVR showing the moon passing in front of the earth. Everyone who has seen these images mocks them for how fake they look. It's a joke.

Here it is:



Even this writer for the Washington Post says that it "looks totally fake". That's a direct quote. The title of the article is "Why NASA's new photos of the moon look super fake". But she then goes on for the rest of the article to try to convince you that it's real.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2016/07/13/why-nasas-new-photos-of-the-moon-look-super-fake-even-though-theyre-not/?utm_term=.2338ccb7d689

This started a meme in the "conspiracy community" where you respond, "It's so fake that you know it's real!". Lmfao


And what about all of the unmanned space probes that NASA claims they have sent (e.g., to Mars and other planets). You're telling me that they couldn't get one of those to just point a camera at the earth and take a picture?

So...when you think about all of this, you next have to question, among other things, whether the alleged unmanned probe missions (e.g., to Mars and other planets) were ever really done. And when you carefully look at the alleged "photos" that those probes took of planets (Saturn, etc), you'll find that those images also look like artist illustrations or CGI.

The reality is that the moon, Mars, stars, and other planets are not "large spherical masses" that you can travel to and land on in a spaceship -- as NASA and Hollywood would have us believe. The truth is that the stars and planets are simply lights in the sky or firmament of heaven. They are not millions of miles or millions of light years away, either.

Russia, Japan, Canada, Germany, France, Belgium, Netherlands. Are you saying that those countries have joined NASA and the Hollywood Leftist Elite Liberal Media to tell us Earth is not really a sphere? All those countries have sent astronauts to the ISS, unless that is also fake?

statefan91 said:

---

Russia, Japan, Canada, Germany, France, Belgium, Netherlands. Are you saying that those countries have joined NASA and the Hollywood Leftist Elite Liberal Media to tell us Earth is not really a sphere? All those countries have sent astronauts to the ISS, unless that is also fake?

---

Most countries in the world are "in" on a lot of big lies and deceptions. For instance, how many other foreign nations have you heard about exposing the cover-up and conspiracy surrounding the JFK assassination? Or.... how many nations have gone along with the Apollo "moon landing" hoax? Or the lies used to start the war in Iraq? Just because we don't have most nations blowing the whistle on these type of things doesn't mean that the "official" government story is true.

Most of the governments of the world are controlled by a cabal of super elites connected to international banking -- ie, that are orchestrating the globalist "New World Order" agenda. All of these governments implement the same Marxist/globalist agenda, and act as a criminal syndicate.

And, yes, there is a lot of evidence that the International Space Station is a hoax. Official NASA footage of the "astronauts from inside the ISS" has shown the use of green screens, and the "astronauts" wearing harnesses/wires. Sometimes they may show some genuine footage of the "astronauts" in a weightless environment, but that can be achieved in a conventional jetliner doing a "dive move" in order to achieve a "zero-gravity" condition.

There are tons of videos on YouTube showing all of NASA's fakery on the ISS. If interested, you might want to watch these videos soon, before YouTube bans this type of content -- allegeing it to be "dangerous conspiracy theories" or "hate speech".

So what are they trying to achieve with this elaborate hoax?

so pathetic

IseWolf22 said:

---

I'm not going to get into your other theories, but right now you are arguing with basic, proven science.

Go talk to anyone in the physics department at NC State. Ask them to explain this to you

---

The theory of evolution, the Big Bang theory, and the heliocentric model are all theories. None of it is "proven science."

As I explained in the initial post to the thread, many of the ideas promoted by "Establishment" academia are not true science (ie, based on observation), but are actually religious-based theories -- ie, pushing an atheistic agenda.

GoPack2008 said:

---

So what are they trying to achieve with this elaborate hoax?

---

The same thing they are trying to achieve by promoting the theory of evolution and the Big Bang theory -- ie, to deny the existence of God and promote a secular/atheistic worldview.

I covered this issue in the initial post of the thread. "Mainstream/Establishment" academia is controlled by Marxists and atheists. You can't get or keep a job in a "science" field in 99% of major universities if you were to, for instance, reject the theory of evolution or the Big Bang theory. Why? Because, at the top, these institutions are run and controlled by atheists/Marxists and others who reject God. They do not allow true scientific inquiry, and debate and investigation. No. They strictly enforce an intolerant Marxist/Leftist/atheist agenda -- similar to the enforcement of "political correctness" in society at large.

The Bible says that the earth is immovable, and that the sun and the moon are the ones that move around the earth. Back in the 1500s, the heliocentric model or theory was pushed by Freemasons and other enemies of God -- for the sole purpose of attacking the Bible and causing people to reject the Bible. This continues today with the theory of evolution and the Big Bang theory.

True believer or epic troll?

GP is pulling an epic trolling effort, no doubt. His mission is definitely not pro Christ. He is trying to associate all manner of silly views on Christians while knowing such an association will undermine all those who do have faith in a risen Lord. He is doggedly determined and quite good at his craft. Beware the wolf in sheep's clothing!

GuerrillaPack said:

---

GoPack2008 said:

---

So what are they trying to achieve with this elaborate hoax?

---

The same thing they are trying to achieve by promoting the theory of evolution and the Big Bang theory -- ie, to deny the existence of God and promote a secular/atheistic worldview.

I covered this issue in the initial post of the thread. "Mainstream/Establishment" academia is controlled by Marxists and atheists. You can't get or keep a job in a "science" field in 99% of major universities if you were to, for instance, reject the theory of evolution or the Big Bang theory. Why? Because, at the top, these institutions are run and controlled by atheists/Marxists and others who reject God. They do not allow true scientific inquiry, and debate and investigation. No. They strictly enforce an intolerant Marxist/Leftist/atheist agenda -- similar to the enforcement of "political correctness" in society at large.

The Bible says that the earth is immovable, and that the sun and the moon are the ones that move around the earth. Back in the 1500s, the heliocentric model or theory was pushed by Freemasons and other enemies of God -- for the sole purpose of attacking the Bible and causing people to reject the Bible. This continues today with the theory of evolution and the Big Bang theory.

---

What would NASA or anyone else get out of denying the existence of God and promoting a secular world view? Like...how does that help them?

PackFansXL said:

---

GP is pulling an epic trolling effort, no doubt. His mission is definitely not pro Christ. He is trying to associate all manner of silly views on Christians while knowing such an association will undermine all those who do have faith in a risen Lord. He is doggedly determined and quite good at his craft. Beware the wolf in sheep's clothing!

---

I'm not really religious, but I would think that if one believes God created us and gave us certain abilities such as the ability to study things and develop the scientific method, he would want us to use those abilities.

GuerrillaPack said:

---

IseWolf22 said:

---

I'm not going to get into your other theories, but right now you are arguing with basic, proven science.

Go talk to anyone in the physics department at NC State. Ask them to explain this to you

---

The theory of evolution, the Big Bang theory, and the heliocentric model are all theories. None of it is "proven science."

As I explained in the initial post to the thread, many of the ideas promoted by "Establishment" academia are not true science (ie, based on observation), but are actually religious-based theories -- ie, pushing an atheistic agenda.

---

Big Bang = Theory with a good amount of evidence
Evolution = Theory with a very large amount of evidence to back it up

Heliocentric Model = FACT

GuerrillaPack said:

---

IseWolf22 said:

---

I'm not going to get into your other theories, but right now you are arguing with basic, proven science.

Go talk to anyone in the physics department at NC State. Ask them to explain this to you

---

The theory of evolution, the Big Bang theory, and the heliocentric model are all theories. None of it is "proven science."

As I explained in the initial post to the thread, many of the ideas promoted by "Establishment" academia are not true science (ie, based on observation), but are actually religious-based theories -- ie, pushing an atheistic agenda.

---

Don't forget gravitational theory, or germ theory!

I'll chim in because it will make the OP upset.

My father in law is a retired Minister. Doctor of Theology.

He states (his opinion) that God did create man as stated in Genesis. 6 days and he rested on the 7th. But how long was a day to God? And man has evolved. What we do not know. Man was created in the image of God, but God is not of flesh but spirit.

Not every sentence of the Bible is taken at face value.

Exodus 35:2

"On six days work may be done, but the seventh day shall be sacred to you as the sabbath of complete rest to the LORD. Anyone who does work on that day shall be put to death."

Leviticus 11

and the pig, which does indeed have hoofs and is cloven-footed, but does not chew the cud and is therefore unclean for you.
Their flesh you shall not eat, and their dead bodies you shall not touch; they are unclean for you."

PackFansXL said:

---

GP is pulling an epic trolling effort, no doubt. His mission is definitely not pro Christ. He is trying to associate all manner of silly views on Christians while knowing such an association will undermine all those who do have faith in a risen Lord. He is doggedly determined and quite good at his craft. Beware the wolf in sheep's clothing!

---

Maybe it makes you feel better to try to convince yourself that people like me "don't exist". We do. There is a huge segment of the population who could be considered anti-Establishment, "conspiracy theorists", or whatever label you want to use. A lot of people question the Establishment on one issue or another -- e.g., JFK assassination, the belief in the agenda for a globalist "New World Order", lies to start wars in the Mid East for ulterior motives....down to the recent issue of the Epstein fake "suicide" and the elite being blackmailed using child sex rings.

Of course, I realize that the "flat earth" movement is an extreme minority view. But it does currently have quite a substantial (and rapidly growing) presence on social media. And at one time not too long ago ( even while I distrusted NASA and did not believe in the "moon landings"), I also thought that this view was preposterous. But after I considered the arguments and evidence, I found that they were on to something. And it was a somewhat lengthy process. It wasn't a quick change of mind. It was difficult to believe, because of the deeply engrained orthodoxy surrounding the globe earth and heliocentric model.

Maybe I don't do the best job of communication sometimes, but I don't think many people here would doubt that I am "for real", and expressing my genuinely held beliefs.

If my goal was to make Christians look bad, then I would simply be a fake or lukewarm pseudo Christian like so many on the Left -- and, for instance, express tolerance and support for abortion and the homosexual and transgender agendas. Or I would be calling myself a Christian while expressing support for incredibly wicked and destructive socialist/Marxist/Leftist ideologies. Or I would encourage unquestioning trust in the government and Establishment media and other Establishment institutions, which are clearly advancing an anti-Christian agenda.

And as I explained in the initial post to this thread, the Bible CLEARLY and explicitly states that the earth is "fixed" and "immovable", and that it is the sun and moon which rotate or move around the earth. Do you deny that? Think about it. If you support the heliocentric/orthodox model, then YOU are the one supporting a view that is against the Bible, and that is anti-Christian.

The problem is that most self-professed "Christians" hardly ever read the Bible, and thus have little to no understanding of what God's word and law truly says. Most of these people get their idea of what "Christianity" is from these corrupt, false "mainsteam" churches and pastors, and follow a corrupted, watered down, and false religion which teaches that "God loves everybody" and we are to be effeminate simps who just tolerate all the sin and wickedness in the world, and we're all supposed to sit back and unquestionably go along with the wicked elites (e.g., blindly obey government) and do nothing while the world goes to hell.

Here are two good presentations that I watched recently -- that I would highly recommend as further introductory material.

Both are from the "2019 Flat Earth International Conference" held in Dallas, TX from Nov 14-15, 2019 . The first presentation is an outstanding introduction to the subject, covering a wide range of subjects, but primarily demonstrating how the "orthodox" cosmology we have been taught (heliocentric model, evolution, Big Bang) is actually "pseudo-science" that is purely based in theory, and not real observable/testable science (as even admitted by top scientists).

The second video covers the subject from a Biblical perspective, primarily addressing how the "orthodox" cosmology is a denial of the truth in the Bible, and is a spiritual attack to cause people to reject God.

Heliocentric model, Evolution, and Big Bang are all observable.

Ground_Chuck said:

---

Heliocentric model, Evolution, and Big Bang are all observable.

---

Not to mention the Earth being a sphere. Easily observable.

As I mentioned before, this is all beyond any debate. It's not "theory" it's 100% stone-cold FACT.

Everything GP has posted so far is the same old crap that FE loonies bring out every so often...and as I mentioned before, it all gets blown out of the water once again as false, easily proven, and then a few months later, they're back with the exact same BS.

Just for the heck of it, there's an easy way to disprove their lies about the curvature. They'll tell you that a ship doesn't really sail away below the surface of the Earth, it just gets too far away to see but if you had a strong enough telescope, you could still see it.
First off, no..you couldn't. It's below the curvature, but if you climbed up something high enough you might could.
Anyway, if all that's keeping you from seeing something at a distance is the strength of your optics: Then why can you see stars? They are billions of LIGHT YEARS away, yet you can see them just fine. Planets, sometimes. The Moon. All much farther away than any ship can get from you but you can still see them just fine. Why? Because nothing's blocking them...like, you know...the curvature of the Earth?

If nothing was blocking that ship, you could see it a LOT farther away than you can in actuality. Fly that supertanker up into the sky and you'll see it just fine. I can see the ISS fly by when it's near to here and it's 254 miles high.

Again, beyond any debate. The sun rises in the east and sets in the west. And the Earth is spherical.

This thread should be locked due to pure stupidity. Thanks a lot internet for the dumbing of an entire species.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

PackBacker07 said:

---

This thread should be locked due to pure stupidity. Thanks a lot internet for the dumbing of an entire species.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

---

Wow, what a shocker. Another far lefty who does not believe in freedom of speech, and wants to silence conservatives and Christians.

You do realize that by whining for censorship it effectively means you admit defeat, and that you cannot win an argument when a free and open debate and discussion is allowed.

The "far right" and so-called "conspiracy theorists" are the ones who's views and arguments are supported by logic, evidence, and reality. When we are able to present our case, the truth wins out.

The worldview of the Left/Establishment is completely bankrupt -- morally and factually. The only way for the Left/Establishment to "win" is to have a monopoly on the dissemination of information (i.e., Hollywood, Leftist Establishment media and academia, censoring the right-wing on big internet social media sites) and suppress and silence conservatives and the right.

Pacfanweb said:

---

Ground_Chuck said:

---

Heliocentric model, Evolution, and Big Bang are all observable.

---

Not to mention the Earth being a sphere. Easily observable.

As I mentioned before, this is all beyond any debate. It's not "theory" it's 100% stone-cold FACT.

Everything GP has posted so far is the same old crap that FE loonies bring out every so often...and as I mentioned before, it all gets blown out of the water once again as false, easily proven, and then a few months later, they're back with the exact same BS.

Just for the heck of it, there's an easy way to disprove their lies about the curvature. They'll tell you that a ship doesn't really sail away below the surface of the Earth, it just gets too far away to see but if you had a strong enough telescope, you could still see it.
First off, no..you couldn't. It's below the curvature, but if you climbed up something high enough you might could.
Anyway, if all that's keeping you from seeing something at a distance is the strength of your optics: Then why can you see stars? They are billions of LIGHT YEARS away, yet you can see them just fine. Planets, sometimes. The Moon. All much farther away than any ship can get from you but you can still see them just fine. Why? Because nothing's blocking them...like, you know...the curvature of the Earth?

If nothing was blocking that ship, you could see it a LOT farther away than you can in actuality. Fly that supertanker up into the sky and you'll see it just fine. I can see the ISS fly by when it's near to here and it's 254 miles high.

Again, beyond any debate. The sun rises in the east and sets in the west. And the Earth is spherical.

---

No. What YOU are saying is false. I have already addressed and countered your points with actual evidence. We are able to see much farther than should be possible if the earth were truly a sphere with a circumference of 24,900 miles, as we are told. For example, again, I posted the video (above) of a local news station reporting that the entire Chicago skyline is visible from almost 60 miles away over Lake Michigan. If the earth was a sphere, this should be impossible, with the skyline being hidden by 2,100 feet of "curvature".

Here again:



Not only is this subject debatable, but when we actually have a debate, the evidence does not support the "orthodox"/Establishment cosmological model.

And,YES, you can see ships that have "sunk" over the horizon by zooming in with a camera lens or telescope. Again, the "disappearing" of ships and the setting of the sun are explained by phenomena other than a spherical earth. It is because of optical "illusions" or phenomena related to the law of perspective and the limits of human sight with the naked eye, as well as a superior mirage that occurs when looking at the horizon. There are many videos on YouTube demonstrating these things:

The debate was settled 1000s of years ago. You are just that slow.

Ground_Chuck said:

---

The debate was settled 1000s of years ago. You are just that slow.

---

In case you haven't figured it out by now, you can't "shame" me with name-calling, and kowtow me into silence with appeal to peer pressure and what is accepted as "true" by most people. I'm way past that point. As I explained in my most recent thread, whatever is "popular" and believed by the vast majority of people is almost always wrong, with them being deceived by Satan and his minions, who rule our world.

Here is a good video analyzing the optical illusion that occurs when looking over bodies of water - called a "superior mirage" (or mirroring). This will really open your eyes as to how objects "disappear" when viewed over the water.



Note to especially watch the portion of the video from 3:15-5:00, which very clearly shows the effect of this mirage. When looking out over large bodies of water, as objects get further away, they will be "blocked" from view by a "bulge of water" that is actually a reflection of the water (i.e., part of the mirage).