GuerrillaPack said:

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Cthepack said:

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GP - you said that there is 20% of the population that are flat earthers, you continue to say this is growing. Statistically, if that were the case, why are you the only one on IPS that is a flat earther?

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Polling from 2.5 years ago showed that around 12% of the American population believe in flat earth and 8% are "unsure" if the earth is flat or a sphere -- for a total of 20% that do not believe the earth is a sphere.

Confirm here if you don't believe me:

https://carsey.unh.edu/publication/conspiracy-vs-science-survey-us-public-beliefs

---

GP are you suggesting there is 20% (by your math, 12% really) of IPS posters that are Flat Eathers? If so have you seen anyone but yourself post they are? I have not.

Cthepack said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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Cthepack said:

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GP - you said that there is 20% of the population that are flat earthers, you continue to say this is growing. Statistically, if that were the case, why are you the only one on IPS that is a flat earther?

---

Polling from 2.5 years ago showed that around 12% of the American population believe in flat earth and 8% are "unsure" if the earth is flat or a sphere -- for a total of 20% that do not believe the earth is a sphere.

Confirm here if you don't believe me:

https://carsey.unh.edu/publication/conspiracy-vs-science-survey-us-public-beliefs

---

GP are you suggesting there is 20% (by your math, 12% really) of IPS posters that are Flat Eathers? If so have you seen anyone but yourself post they are? I have not.

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No way 20% of college educated folks (most of IPS, i assume), believe such poppycock

The 12% he refers to are either mouth breathing morons who are either completely uneducated or the folks who are so filled with anti-government venom that they think governments made up this sphere thing back in the 1900s just to hold people back. And who now all coordinate despite otherwise differences to continue the "fallacy".
In other words, they are either morons, or morons.

Packchem91 said:

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No way 20% of college educated folks (most of IPS, i assume), believe such poppycock

The 12% he refers to are either mouth breathing morons who are either completely uneducated or the folks who are so filled with anti-government venom that they think governments made up this sphere thing back in the 1900s just to hold people back. And who now all coordinate despite otherwise differences to continue the "fallacy".
In other words, they are either morons, or morons.

---

The Ad hominem smear tactics are strong with this one.

Rage harder. That poll is 2.5 years old. 20% and growing. Be afraid, very afraid.

Big Sexy Pack said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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Packchem91 said:

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No way 20% of college educated folks (most of IPS, i assume), believe such poppycock

The 12% he refers to are either mouth breathing morons who are either completely uneducated or the folks who are so filled with anti-government venom that they think governments made up this sphere thing back in the 1900s just to hold people back. And who now all coordinate despite otherwise differences to continue the "fallacy".
In other words, they are either morons, or morons.

---

The Ad hominem smear tactics are strong with this one.

Rage harder. That poll is 2.5 years old. 20% and growing. Be afraid, very afraid.

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It's not fear. It's pity.

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No. It's fear. I'm afraid that we'll never know how far away the sun is.

GuerrillaPack said:

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Packchem91 said:

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No way 20% of college educated folks (most of IPS, i assume), believe such poppycock

The 12% he refers to are either mouth breathing morons who are either completely uneducated or the folks who are so filled with anti-government venom that they think governments made up this sphere thing back in the 1900s just to hold people back. And who now all coordinate despite otherwise differences to continue the "fallacy".
In other words, they are either morons, or morons.

---

The Ad hominem smear tactics are strong with this one.

Rage harder. That poll is 2.5 years old. 20% and growing. Be afraid, very afraid.

---

But only you on this site?

GuerrillaPack said:

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Packchem91 said:

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No way 20% of college educated folks (most of IPS, i assume), believe such poppycock

The 12% he refers to are either mouth breathing morons who are either completely uneducated or the folks who are so filled with anti-government venom that they think governments made up this sphere thing back in the 1900s just to hold people back. And who now all coordinate despite otherwise differences to continue the "fallacy".
In other words, they are either morons, or morons.

---

The Ad hominem smear tactics are strong with this one.

Rage harder. That poll is 2.5 years old. 20% and growing. Be afraid, very afraid.

---

No. Its sadness. People either that dumb, or so filled with mistrust.
But also comedy your explanation that Antarctica is the edge but we can't tell because "The Man" keeps us from going there is just comical. Even if you're dumb enough to buy that, where are the other edges?

Packchem91 said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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Packchem91 said:

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No way 20% of college educated folks (most of IPS, i assume), believe such poppycock

The 12% he refers to are either mouth breathing morons who are either completely uneducated or the folks who are so filled with anti-government venom that they think governments made up this sphere thing back in the 1900s just to hold people back. And who now all coordinate despite otherwise differences to continue the "fallacy".
In other words, they are either morons, or morons.

---

The Ad hominem smear tactics are strong with this one.

Rage harder. That poll is 2.5 years old. 20% and growing. Be afraid, very afraid.

---

No. Its sadness. People either that dumb, or so filled with mistrust.
But also comedy your explanation that Antarctica is the edge but we can't tell because "The Man" keeps us from going there is just comical. Even if you're dumb enough to buy that, where are the other edges?

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Flat Earthers think that Antarctica encircles the whole Earth. The crust, if you will. And we can't go beyond it because of the Global Cabal somehow guards all 25,000+ miles of it.

Packchem91 said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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Packchem91 said:

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No way 20% of college educated folks (most of IPS, i assume), believe such poppycock

The 12% he refers to are either mouth breathing morons who are either completely uneducated or the folks who are so filled with anti-government venom that they think governments made up this sphere thing back in the 1900s just to hold people back. And who now all coordinate despite otherwise differences to continue the "fallacy".
In other words, they are either morons, or morons.

---

The Ad hominem smear tactics are strong with this one.

Rage harder. That poll is 2.5 years old. 20% and growing. Be afraid, very afraid.

---

No. Its sadness. People either that dumb, or so filled with mistrust.
But also comedy your explanation that Antarctica is the edge but we can't tell because "The Man" keeps us from going there is just comical. Even if you're dumb enough to buy that, where are the other edges?

---

Rrrrriiight. You are so "sad", yet you lash out with a barrage of insults against me.

Who is "hate-filled" again??

LOL

GP, can you explain to me why you can't go out into your driveway on a sunny day and calculate the height of the sun? On a flat earth, you should be able to measure the angle of the shadow of a vertical object, then use some simple math to calculate the distance to the sun, as long as you know how far away you are from the spot where the sun is directly over the earth.

So....like....shouldn't someone go calculate that? Why haven't you done this yourself, as an engineer?

Feel free to ignore that impossible question as well.

GuerrillaPack said:

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Packchem91 said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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Packchem91 said:

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No way 20% of college educated folks (most of IPS, i assume), believe such poppycock

The 12% he refers to are either mouth breathing morons who are either completely uneducated or the folks who are so filled with anti-government venom that they think governments made up this sphere thing back in the 1900s just to hold people back. And who now all coordinate despite otherwise differences to continue the "fallacy".
In other words, they are either morons, or morons.

---

The Ad hominem smear tactics are strong with this one.

Rage harder. That poll is 2.5 years old. 20% and growing. Be afraid, very afraid.

---

No. Its sadness. People either that dumb, or so filled with mistrust.
But also comedy your explanation that Antarctica is the edge but we can't tell because "The Man" keeps us from going there is just comical. Even if you're dumb enough to buy that, where are the other edges?

---

Rrrrriiight. You are so "sad", yet you lash out with a barrage of insults against me.

Who is "hate-filled" again??

LOL

---

No need to put yourself up on a pedestal on this, Mr Martyr. I am not lashing out. Just mocking you and simply calling your beliefs here moronic.

To be clear, I think you are not a moron. You would not have gotten into State otherwise. You fall into that camp of people who are so wrapped up in their distrust of establishment (except of course when the establishment is the church) that they are willing to accept moronic beliefs. And twist reality to fit that story (see Antarctica)

grantwolf said:

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Packchem91 said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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Packchem91 said:

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No way 20% of college educated folks (most of IPS, i assume), believe such poppycock

The 12% he refers to are either mouth breathing morons who are either completely uneducated or the folks who are so filled with anti-government venom that they think governments made up this sphere thing back in the 1900s just to hold people back. And who now all coordinate despite otherwise differences to continue the "fallacy".
In other words, they are either morons, or morons.

---

The Ad hominem smear tactics are strong with this one.

Rage harder. That poll is 2.5 years old. 20% and growing. Be afraid, very afraid.

---

No. Its sadness. People either that dumb, or so filled with mistrust.
But also comedy your explanation that Antarctica is the edge but we can't tell because "The Man" keeps us from going there is just comical. Even if you're dumb enough to buy that, where are the other edges?

---

Flat Earthers think that Antarctica encircles the whole Earth. The crust, if you will. And we can't go beyond it because of the Global Cabal somehow guards all 25,000+ miles of it.

---

Nobody out-pizzas The Hut.

I never actually thought about the overall shape before, but what holds a flat earth together to keep it from cracking down the middle? Gluten? That's not a good structural situation.

How many times have you seen U.S. Presidents (or NASA) in years past make these big announcements at press conferences saying "we're going to send men back to the moon" and "we're going to send a manned mission to Mars", only to have those plans be pushed back further and further, or outright cancelled?

For example, in 2004 George Bush announced that NASA had plans "within the next 15 years" to "to construct a manned base on the Moon as a precursor to astronauts visiting Mars".

Oh boy!!! Construct a manned base on the moon by 2019 and then send men to Mars in the early 2020s!! Wow wee!!

Never going to happen.

Just yesterday, NASA cancelled their latest fake "Moon mission"....

NASA Cancels VIPER Moon Mission After Spending $450 Million to Build a Rover

Quote:

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July 19, 2024

After spending about $450 million to build a rover destined to search for lunar ice, NASA announced it will cancel the program. Amid budget concerns, the decision marks the end of the agency's Volatiles Investigating Polar Exploration Rover (VIPER), just days before the 55th anniversary of the Apollo 11 mission, which achieved the first human lunar landing on July 20, 1969.

The car-sized VIPER rover was in the middle of environmental testing when it got shut down.

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So they claim they sent a tin can made of curtain rods, duct tape and gold colored aluminum foil with men inside to the moon with 1969 technology. But can't even send a rover there in 2024 after spending half a billion dollars on the "mission", 55 years later. Yeah, right.

Where's the moon base? When is the manned Mars mission going to happen?

Why keep cancelling all these things? It's because they can't fake it good enough to not get massively exposed in the age of the internet and social media.

GuerrillaPack said:

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Cthepack said:

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GP - you said that there is 20% of the population that are flat earthers, you continue to say this is growing. Statistically, if that were the case, why are you the only one on IPS that is a flat earther?

---

Polling from 2.5 years ago showed that around 12% of the American population believe in flat earth and 8% are "unsure" if the earth is flat or a sphere -- for a total of 20% that do not believe the earth is a sphere.

Confirm here if you don't believe me:

https://carsey.unh.edu/publication/conspiracy-vs-science-survey-us-public-beliefs

---

I'm a late boomer, thanks for making me feel smarter.

This debate is like living in the movie Idiocracy....

ChemE94 said:

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This debate is like living in the movie Idiocracy....

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In Idiocracy, the vast majority of the population are morons, and only a small minority have any intelligence.

That's sort of the way it's always been in every generation. The vast majority of people all through history are gullible sheep, easily deceived and controlled by nefarious powers-that-be.

GuerrillaPack said:

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Why keep cancelling all these things? It's because they can't fake it good enough to not get massively exposed in the age of the internet and social media.

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So...our unwillingness to take new trips to the moon proves that the Earth is flat?

And yet they're still "simulating" the Mars rover and the ISS and the JWST and Chinese space station and Starlink and GPS and … (sucks in deep breath) … Hubble and the Chinese moon rover and the Parker sun probe and Voyager and Artemis and Starship and …

grantwolf said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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Why keep cancelling all these things? It's because they can't fake it good enough to not get massively exposed in the age of the internet and social media.

---

So...our unwillingness to take new trips to the moon proves that the Earth is flat?

---

Not just "unwillingness". All the promise of missions that get delayed over and over and over, or outright cancelled. And isn't it a bit odd, to say the least, that they supposedly "sent men to the moon" for the last time in 1972, but no one, including NASA or anyone from any other nation, has "gone back to the moon" is almost 55 years? With the vast advancements in technology from the 1960s to 2024, "going to the moon" should be a piece of cake compared to 1969. That is, IF they ever went to the moon to begin with.

All the flaky delays and cancellations of missions should at least raise suspicion, even among NASA fanboys, that NASA may not actually be conducting these missions. For instance, they claimed that they were going to have a "manned base on the Moon" by 2019. Is that ever going to happen? Has that "plan" been cancelled too?

This and all the many examples of the massive frauds and fake "missions" by NASA prove that NASA has no credibility, and are perpetrating a gigantic fraud on everyone. And then you consider, as I have explained over and over in this thread, that one of the main purposes of NASA is to provide supposed "undeniable proof" of the orthodox cosmological model (ie, this hairbrained theory of a universe that exploded in a Big Bang and consists of large masses of stars and planets flying around in an ever-expanding universe). The CGI fake photos from NASA and other nations' space agencies of the "globe earth" have been used to brainwash people into this false cosmology of the earth as a "sphere floating in space".

All that to say this....once you realize that NASA is perpetrating all these frauds, it calls into question the orthodox cosmological theory of the universe of a "spherical earth floating in space that exploded from a Big Bang".

GuerrillaPack said:

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grantwolf said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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Why keep cancelling all these things? It's because they can't fake it good enough to not get massively exposed in the age of the internet and social media.

---

So...our unwillingness to take new trips to the moon proves that the Earth is flat?

---

This and all the many examples of the massive frauds and fake "missions" by NASA prove that NASA has no credibility, and are perpetrating a gigantic fraud on everyone.

---

Lol. What is your evidence of any of this?

Do you believe in satellites?

grantwolf said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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grantwolf said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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Why keep cancelling all these things? It's because they can't fake it good enough to not get massively exposed in the age of the internet and social media.

---

So...our unwillingness to take new trips to the moon proves that the Earth is flat?

---

This and all the many examples of the massive frauds and fake "missions" by NASA prove that NASA has no credibility, and are perpetrating a gigantic fraud on everyone.

---

Lol. What is your evidence of any of this?

---

#1 - The laughably fake and totally preposterous "Apollo moon landing missions".

grantwolf said:

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Do you believe in satellites?

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I believe they are put on balloons that NASA launches, such as this one launched from Antarctica...this is a NASA YouTube channel, btw:

GuerrillaPack said:

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grantwolf said:

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Do you believe in satellites?

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I believe they are put on balloons that NASA launches, such as this one launched from Antarctica...this is a NASA YouTube channel, btw:

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...and what exactly keeps the satellite in the air?

grantwolf said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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grantwolf said:

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Do you believe in satellites?

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I believe they are put on balloons that NASA launches, such as this one launched from Antarctica...this is a NASA YouTube channel, btw:

---

...and what exactly keeps the satellite in the air?

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The balloon, full of helium. It stays attached to the satellite, staying high in the atmosphere for months. NASA is the world's largest purchaser/user of helium.

Remember that hullabaloo about Chinese balloons spotted over the United States a while back? Those were carrying their own spy satellites.

GuerrillaPack said:

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grantwolf said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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grantwolf said:

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Do you believe in satellites?

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I believe they are put on balloons that NASA launches, such as this one launched from Antarctica...this is a NASA YouTube channel, btw:

---

...and what exactly keeps the satellite in the air?

---

The balloon, full of helium. It stays attached to the satellite, staying high in the atmosphere for months. NASA is the world's largest purchaser/user of helium.

Remember that hullabaloo about Chinese balloons spotted over the United States a while back? Those were carrying their own spy satellites.

---

And they just float around aimlessly? What happens when the bump into the firmament, or run into the sun or the moon?

grantwolf said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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grantwolf said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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grantwolf said:

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Do you believe in satellites?

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I believe they are put on balloons that NASA launches, such as this one launched from Antarctica...this is a NASA YouTube channel, btw:

---

...and what exactly keeps the satellite in the air?

---

The balloon, full of helium. It stays attached to the satellite, staying high in the atmosphere for months. NASA is the world's largest purchaser/user of helium.

Remember that hullabaloo about Chinese balloons spotted over the United States a while back? Those were carrying their own spy satellites.

---

And they just float around aimlessly? What happens when the bump into the firmament, or run into the sun or the moon?

---

Wow, what a great strawman. Do you think that's what NASA is doing? Putting them up there to "float around aimlessly"? Ask China if they just put up their balloon spy satellites to "just float around aimlessly".

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-65972168

Quote:

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New images show Chinese spy balloons over Asia

26 June 2023

New evidence of China's spy balloon programme - including flights over Japan and Taiwan - has been uncovered by BBC Panorama.

Japan has confirmed balloons have flown over its territory and said it's prepared to shoot them down in future.

China has not directly addressed the evidence presented by the BBC.
US-China relations were thrown into turmoil earlier this year, when an alleged Chinese spy balloon was shot down off the US coast.

China claimed the balloon seen over north-western US in late January was a civilian airship, used for scientific research such as meteorology - and that it was an unintended and isolated event.

---

Picture from the BBC article here of the Chinese spy satellite balloon. Sure looks like what they show us as a "satellite" (the metallic portion, with solar panels, etc) hanging from the balloon.

GuerrillaPack said:

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grantwolf said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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grantwolf said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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grantwolf said:

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Do you believe in satellites?

---

I believe they are put on balloons that NASA launches, such as this one launched from Antarctica...this is a NASA YouTube channel, btw:

---

...and what exactly keeps the satellite in the air?

---

The balloon, full of helium. It stays attached to the satellite, staying high in the atmosphere for months. NASA is the world's largest purchaser/user of helium.

Remember that hullabaloo about Chinese balloons spotted over the United States a while back? Those were carrying their own spy satellites.

---

And they just float around aimlessly? What happens when the bump into the firmament, or run into the sun or the moon?

---

Wow, what a great strawman. Do you think that's what NASA is doing? Putting them up there to "float around aimlessly"? Ask China if they just put up their balloon spy satellites to "just float around aimlessly".

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-65972168

Quote:

---

New images show Chinese spy balloons over Asia

26 June 2023

New evidence of China's spy balloon programme - including flights over Japan and Taiwan - has been uncovered by BBC Panorama.

Japan has confirmed balloons have flown over its territory and said it's prepared to shoot them down in future.

China has not directly addressed the evidence presented by the BBC.
US-China relations were thrown into turmoil earlier this year, when an alleged Chinese spy balloon was shot down off the US coast.

China claimed the balloon seen over north-western US in late January was a civilian airship, used for scientific research such as meteorology - and that it was an unintended and isolated event.

---

Picture from the BBC article here of the Chinese spy satellite balloon. Sure looks like what they show us as a "satellite" (the metallic portion, with solar panels, etc) hanging from the balloon.

---

I mean, if you know the upper atmosphere currents, you can put something up and within the first bit of time be able to predict where it goes. I imagine those are solar panels to power whatever equipment is on the balloon.

Is anyone here denying the existence of balloons for the purposes of either scientific study or surveillance?

Balloons aren't satellites.

grantwolf said:

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Balloons aren't satellites.

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Yes, they are. They float around (for months/years) with all the "hardware" of a satellite (solar panels, cameras, data-collection equipment) attached to and hanging from the balloon, just as demonstrated by the video I posted above and the picture of the Chinese balloon satellites.

There are no satellites up there flying around in "orbit" as they tell us, shot up there on a rocket. That's a lie.

GuerrillaPack said:

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grantwolf said:

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Balloons aren't satellites.

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Yes, they are. They float around (for months/years) with all the "hardware" of a satellite (solar panels, cameras, data-collection equipment) attached to and hanging from the balloon, just as demonstrated by the video I posted above and the picture of the Chinese balloon satellites.

There are no satellites up there flying around in "orbit" as they tell us, shot up there on a rocket. That's a lie.

---

And your proof of this is "balloons exist, therefore, satellites don't exist".

grantwolf said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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grantwolf said:

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Balloons aren't satellites.

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Yes, they are. They float around (for months/years) with all the "hardware" of a satellite (solar panels, cameras, data-collection equipment) attached to and hanging from the balloon, just as demonstrated by the video I posted above and the picture of the Chinese balloon satellites.

There are no satellites up there flying around in "orbit" as they tell us, shot up there on a rocket. That's a lie.

---

And your proof of this is "balloons exist, therefore, satellites don't exist".

---

You know you are howling at the moon/tilting at windmills/pissing into the wind/choose your analogy, right?

Are atoms flat too?

So I assume you guys may have seen me talking earlier in the thread how the Bible says that there is a hard structure above the earth, translated as the "firmament" (that is also referred to as "the heavens" or "sky" in the scriptures), which contains our atmosphere.

As anyone should understand from basic physics, our atmosphere must have a container. A gas cannot maintain a pressure unless it is contained. And it is impossible for our atmosphere on earth to exist right next to a supposed "vacuum of space". If a gas is exposed to a vacuum, it would be sucked away. If the earth were a ball flying through space at hundreds of thousands (or millions) of miles per hour, the atmosphere would blow away or be sucked away by the vacuum of space.

Anyways, the "Complete Jewish Bible" and well as the "Contemporary English Version", the "New American Bible" and the "New Revised Standard Version" translations of the scriptures translates this "firmament" as a "dome".

Genesis 1:6-8 - God said, "Let there be a dome in the middle of the water; let it divide the water from the water." 7 God made the dome and divided the water under the dome from the water above the dome; that is how it was, 8 and God called the dome Sky. So there was evening, and there was morning, a second day.


See the many other translations of Genesis 1:6 here, with it often translated as "firmament" instead of "dome", and also as "vault".


If you look up the Hebrew word that is translated as "firmament" or "dome" (see here), it comes from Strong's Hebrew word #7549, which is transliterated as "raqia", and has the definition/meaning of an "extended surface that is solid".

GuerrillaPack said:

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As anyone should understand from basic physics, our atmosphere must have a container. A gas cannot maintain a pressure unless it is contained. And it is impossible for our atmosphere on earth to exist right next to a supposed "vacuum of space". If a gas is exposed to a vacuum, it would be sucked away. If the earth were a ball flying through space at hundreds of thousands (or millions) of miles per hour, the atmosphere would blow away or be sucked away by the vacuum of space.

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Why don't you take 10 minutes out of your day to "research" why our atmosphere isn't "sucked out to space"? Your command of physics would make the NC State College of Engineering do a big ole' facepalm. You are Dunning-Krugering all over the place.

grantwolf said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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As anyone should understand from basic physics, our atmosphere must have a container. A gas cannot maintain a pressure unless it is contained. And it is impossible for our atmosphere on earth to exist right next to a supposed "vacuum of space". If a gas is exposed to a vacuum, it would be sucked away. If the earth were a ball flying through space at hundreds of thousands (or millions) of miles per hour, the atmosphere would blow away or be sucked away by the vacuum of space.

---

Why don't you take 10 minutes out of your day to "research" why our atmosphere isn't "sucked out to space"? Your command of physics would make the NC State College of Engineering do a big ole' facepalm. You are Dunning-Krugering all over the place.

---

I've taken HUNDREDS of hours over approximately 10 years to research all of these things related to the "official" claims on cosmology - heliocentric theory, Big Bang theory, Apollo "moon landing" hoaxes, globe earth theory, flat earth argument, etc. I've seen the arguments from both sides. I've "internally debated" and thought about these things critically.

In contrast, I bet the average person who believes in the "official" view of cosmology has not spent even 20 minutes seriously considering any arguments that go against the "official" view. They have not thought about these orthodox theories and arguments critically, to any substantial degree. They have only unquestionably believed what they've been told to believe.