Wolfpack Baseball - 2020 (1-0,0-0)

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JCooke93
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3:29p, 7/13/19
Ok Here is my very early Updated Projections
1LFJ.Butler2
2/2BT.Mcdonough13
3Catcher P.Bailey5
41BA.Murr
5DHB.Debo
6RFD.Brown3
73BJ.Torres
8CFN.Soles
9SS V.Mensik6
And My Weekend Starting Rotation
R.Johnston29
N.Swiney46
L.Benter
D.Harrison10
And The Closers K.Klyman44 D.Feeney19 And B.Nelson38
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Ripper
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In reply to JCooke93 • 3:32p, 7/13/19
JCooke93 said:
Ripper said:
Moving McDonough to 2B only works if the outfield replacement is a clearly better hitter than Jarrett, while also being good on D. Tyler played excellent D in CF. This past season Tatum, McAthur, and Thomas were not any better than Jarrett at the plate.

I'm not advocating for Jarrett and am not against TM playing 2B, but placing a low .200 hitter into the outfield just to remove Jarrett from the lineup does nothing for us. If TM goes to the infield, we need the new OF to step up at the plate and on D.

N.SOLES
Soles was already included. Butler and Soles. That means there would be one OF spot remaining if TM went to the infield. Devonte Brown has been mentioned. He's certainly not as good defensively as TM in the OF. Hit OK last season, better than Jarrett. If you want Brown's bat in the lineup (assuming no other newcomers step up), would it be better to have Brown play 2B or RF? A Soles, Butler, McDonough outfield looks pretty good, better than a Soles, Butler, Brown outfield. What hurts us more on D? Brown in RF and TM at 2B or TM in RF and Brown at 2B? Is TM a great defensive 2B, much better than Brown at 2B? I can say TM is a better defensive OF than Brown.

We need to maximize productivity. Same with Torres and Mensik at 3B and SS. If both are similar at SS, but Mensik is clearly our best 3B, you have to play Mensik at 3B to maximize productivity.

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JCooke93
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In reply to Ripper • 3:40p, 7/13/19
Ripper said:
JCooke93 said:
Ripper said:
Moving McDonough to 2B only works if the outfield replacement is a clearly better hitter than Jarrett, while also being good on D. Tyler played excellent D in CF. This past season Tatum, McAthur, and Thomas were not any better than Jarrett at the plate.

I'm not advocating for Jarrett and am not against TM playing 2B, but placing a low .200 hitter into the outfield just to remove Jarrett from the lineup does nothing for us. If TM goes to the infield, we need the new OF to step up at the plate and on D.

N.SOLES
Soles was already included. Butler and Soles. That means there would be one OF spot remaining if TM went to the infield. Devonte Brown has been mentioned. He's certainly not as good defensively as TM in the OF. Hit OK last season, better than Jarrett. If you want Brown's bat in the lineup (assuming no other newcomers step up), would it be better to have Brown play 2B or RF? A Soles, Butler, McDonough outfield looks pretty good, better than a Soles, Butler, Brown outfield. What hurts us more on D? Brown in RF and TM at 2B or TM in RF and Brown at 2B? Is TM a great defensive 2B, much better than Brown at 2B? I can say TM is a better defensive OF than Brown.

We need to maximize productivity. Same with Torres and Mensik at 3B and SS. If both are similar at SS, but Mensik is clearly our best 3B, you have to play Mensik at 3B to maximize productivity.

True but V.mensik6 is going to be Our Starting SS going into the fall
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Ripper
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In reply to JCooke93 • 3:45p, 7/13/19
JCooke93 said:
Ripper said:
JCooke93 said:
Ripper said:
Moving McDonough to 2B only works if the outfield replacement is a clearly better hitter than Jarrett, while also being good on D. Tyler played excellent D in CF. This past season Tatum, McAthur, and Thomas were not any better than Jarrett at the plate.

I'm not advocating for Jarrett and am not against TM playing 2B, but placing a low .200 hitter into the outfield just to remove Jarrett from the lineup does nothing for us. If TM goes to the infield, we need the new OF to step up at the plate and on D.

N.SOLES
Soles was already included. Butler and Soles. That means there would be one OF spot remaining if TM went to the infield. Devonte Brown has been mentioned. He's certainly not as good defensively as TM in the OF. Hit OK last season, better than Jarrett. If you want Brown's bat in the lineup (assuming no other newcomers step up), would it be better to have Brown play 2B or RF? A Soles, Butler, McDonough outfield looks pretty good, better than a Soles, Butler, Brown outfield. What hurts us more on D? Brown in RF and TM at 2B or TM in RF and Brown at 2B? Is TM a great defensive 2B, much better than Brown at 2B? I can say TM is a better defensive OF than Brown.

We need to maximize productivity. Same with Torres and Mensik at 3B and SS. If both are similar at SS, but Mensik is clearly our best 3B, you have to play Mensik at 3B to maximize productivity.

True but V.mensik6 is going to be Our Starting SS going into the fall
I'm talking about next spring. I could care less about who may be penciled in going into the fall. Most, if not all, of the personnel questions get answered once the fall season is complete. Torres could be an uber stud at SS this fall.
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CLTWolf
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4:13p, 7/13/19
Devonte Brown is a very good defensive OF and hits much better than Jarrett. Tyler McDonough is a natural infielder and does everything better than JT Jarrett.

Austin Murr played a lot of RF the last two years so he could possibly be an option there but I don't want to sacrifice defense at first.
CJ Neese could be in the mix as well. He's a top 200 kid that doesn't get much discussion. He's an option at 3B/SS as well. Has a big arm.

Good news is we have options.

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JCooke93
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In reply to CLTWolf • 4:32p, 7/13/19
CLTWolf said:
Devonte Brown is a very good defensive OF and hits much better than Jarrett. Tyler McDonough is a natural infielder and does everything better than JT Jarrett.

Austin Murr played a lot of RF the last two years so he could possibly be an option there but I don't want to sacrifice defense at first.
CJ Neese could be in the mix as well. He's a top 200 kid that doesn't get much discussion. He's an option at 3B/SS as well. Has a big arm.

Good news is we have options.

And CJ can Pitch also
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Ripper
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In reply to CLTWolf • 4:55p, 7/13/19
CLTWolf said:
Devonte Brown is a very good defensive OF and hits much better than Jarrett. Tyler McDonough is a natural infielder and does everything better than JT Jarrett.

Austin Murr played a lot of RF the last two years so he could possibly be an option there but I don't want to sacrifice defense at first.
CJ Neese could be in the mix as well. He's a top 200 kid that doesn't get much discussion. He's an option at 3B/SS as well. Has a big arm.

Good news is we have options.

Options are good. We just need the bottom of the order to hit much better than last season. Overall, we look good heading into 2020.
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CLTWolf
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In reply to Ripper • 5:06p, 7/13/19
Ripper said:
CLTWolf said:
Devonte Brown is a very good defensive OF and hits much better than Jarrett. Tyler McDonough is a natural infielder and does everything better than JT Jarrett.

Austin Murr played a lot of RF the last two years so he could possibly be an option there but I don't want to sacrifice defense at first.
CJ Neese could be in the mix as well. He's a top 200 kid that doesn't get much discussion. He's an option at 3B/SS as well. Has a big arm.

Good news is we have options.

Options are good. We just need the bottom of the order to hit much better than last season. Overall, we look good heading into 2020.

No doubt.

Depending on how the FR turn out I wouldn't mind seeing Tyler lead off (needs to walk more) and park Butler at the 9 spot. I loved when Pitarra would bar 9th his JR year (I think it was his JR year).
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3rdGenPacker
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6:11p, 7/13/19
Torres, Giles and Willadsen are all better SS than Mensik. I think the early plan will be for Neese and Willadsen to pitch though, so that leaves Giles and Torres. Giles might surprise.
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Ripper
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7:51p, 7/13/19
We periodically have a lesser known Frosh come in, grab a starting spot, and excel as a Frosh. Knizner, Kinneman, and McDonough come to mind. Even Turner somewhat.

Next year's Frosh are talented. Wouldn't be surprised if a lesser ranked guy takes a spot.
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JCooke93
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In reply to 3rdGenPacker • 8:03p, 7/13/19
3rdGenPacker said:
Torres, Giles and Willadsen are all better SS than Mensik. I think the early plan will be for Neese and Willadsen to pitch though, so that leaves Giles and Torres. Giles might surprise.
I saw somewhere someone said that Giles maybe in the Outfield but don't know How true that is
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basementwolf
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In reply to 3rdGenPacker • 8:35p, 7/13/19
3rdGenPacker said:
Torres, Giles and Willadsen are all better SS than Mensik. I think the early plan will be for Neese and Willadsen to pitch though, so that leaves Giles and Torres. Giles might surprise.

Vasquez is a better shortstop than Mensik.
Is he on the team or not?
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JCooke93
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In reply to basementwolf • 9:19p, 7/13/19
basementwolf said:
3rdGenPacker said:
Torres, Giles and Willadsen are all better SS than Mensik. I think the early plan will be for Neese and Willadsen to pitch though, so that leaves Giles and Torres. Giles might surprise.

Vasquez is a better shortstop than Mensik.
Is he on the team or not?
last I saw he was still on the Team
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Struttingwolf96
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12:34a, 7/14/19
My guess, knowing how Avent is:
C Bailey(4)
DH Debo(6)
FB Thresh(5)
SB Brown(8)
SS Vazquez(7)
TB Mensik(9)
CF McDonough(3)
RF Soles(2)
LF Butler(1)

Murr is good, but you know how Juco kids are. Just like Edwards, he was good in his 1st year, but really blew up in his 2nd year. Think the same will happen with Murr. McDonough was the best Defensive outfielder we had last year & Avent's probably not gonna move him. If he does, who replaces him? Jarrett's bat will keep him as a role player & late game defensive replacement. Tatum & McArthur are good bench players, there too inconsistent & will be replaced by Soles in RF. Vazquez & Mensik will be 2 of the better defensive players on the IF & are solid bats in the lineup. Brown, will be the most improved player on the team & will move to his natural position, 2B, not RF. Chlup is gonna be good, but maybe by his JR. year it will be his coming out year? Torres, Neese, Giles, & Highfill will have to wait there turns in typical Avent fashion when it comes to playing a lot if FR. Pitching, Idk. Guessing 3 between the 5 of Johnston, Harrison, Feeney, Swiney, & Villaman(health)/Bender with either Klyman or Cotter closing.
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JCooke93
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In reply to Struttingwolf96 • 9:20a, 7/14/19
Struttingwolf96 said:
My guess, knowing how Avent is:
C Bailey(4)
DH Debo(6)
FB Thresh(5)
SB Brown(8)
SS Vazquez(7)
TB Mensik(9)
CF McDonough(3)
RF Soles(2)
LF Butler(1)

Murr is good, but you know how Juco kids are. Just like Edwards, he was good in his 1st year, but really blew up in his 2nd year. Think the same will happen with Murr. McDonough was the best Defensive outfielder we had last year & Avent's probably not gonna move him. If he does, who replaces him? Jarrett's bat will keep him as a role player & late game defensive replacement. Tatum & McArthur are good bench players, there too inconsistent & will be replaced by Soles in RF. Vazquez & Mensik will be 2 of the better defensive players on the IF & are solid bats in the lineup. Brown, will be the most improved player on the team & will move to his natural position, 2B, not RF. Chlup is gonna be good, but maybe by his JR. year it will be his coming out year? Torres, Neese, Giles, & Highfill will have to wait there turns in typical Avent fashion when it comes to playing a lot if FR. Pitching, Idk. Guessing 3 between the 5 of Johnston, Harrison, Feeney, Swiney, & Villaman(health)/Bender with either Klyman or Cotter closing.
I like it
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Glasswolf
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In reply to Struttingwolf96 • 10:38a, 7/14/19
Struttingwolf96 said:
My guess, knowing how Avent is:
C Bailey(4)
DH Debo(6)
FB Thresh(5)
SB Brown(8)
SS Vazquez(7)
TB Mensik(9)
CF McDonough(3)
RF Soles(2)
LF Butler(1)

Murr is good, but you know how Juco kids are. Just like Edwards, he was good in his 1st year, but really blew up in his 2nd year. Think the same will happen with Murr. McDonough was the best Defensive outfielder we had last year & Avent's probably not gonna move him. If he does, who replaces him? Jarrett's bat will keep him as a role player & late game defensive replacement. Tatum & McArthur are good bench players, there too inconsistent & will be replaced by Soles in RF. Vazquez & Mensik will be 2 of the better defensive players on the IF & are solid bats in the lineup. Brown, will be the most improved player on the team & will move to his natural position, 2B, not RF. Chlup is gonna be good, but maybe by his JR. year it will be his coming out year? Torres, Neese, Giles, & Highfill will have to wait there turns in typical Avent fashion when it comes to playing a lot if FR. Pitching, Idk. Guessing 3 between the 5 of Johnston, Harrison, Feeney, Swiney, & Villaman(health)/Bender with either Klyman or Cotter closing.
McDonough will move to 2nd
Payton Wilson on what he thought of Carter Finley: Drunk Crazy Crowded

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Struttingwolf96
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In reply to Glasswolf • 10:50a, 7/14/19
McDonough imo, looked like a better player in the OF than Brown did, Brown has played more in the IF & has looked pretty good when he did.
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CLTWolf
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11:14a, 7/14/19
I'm not sure where ol boy came up with this insane narrative that Avent doesn't play freshman. Go back and look at the actual data and it's easy to see this wild ass speculation is incorrect.
Last year...
6 of 8 kids in the class made it to school. 2 were drafted. One of those 6 didn't make it to the season (Dockery) and transferred to a JUCO. 2 of those 5 played a lot on a pretty veteran team. This doesn't take in account the JUCOs Butler and Silver who played.
2017
13 newcomers. One was drafted and signed. Of the 12 left 9 of those FR started, played a role or pitched a great deal. One of the 3 that didn't play, one redshirted due to injury (Cotter) and one went JUCO at Florence-Darlington Tech (Hunter Baker).
2016
11 newcomers. One was drafted and signed and of the 10 left 6 either started, had a role or pitched a lot.
2015
Small class with 7 kids. Brett Kinneman was about the only one that played any significant burn besides Xavier LeGrant. Lots of veteran guys in front of the kids in that small class. Didn't need any of the FR to play.
2014
Big class of 17. Lost 3 to the draft leaving 14. Guys like Dunand, Deathrage, Brian Brown and Tommy DeJuneas played a lot. Future studs like Josh McLain and Evan Mendoza didn't play a lot as they had really good upperclassmen in front of them but still got some burn. Shane Shepard, Pitarrra and a few others (Austin Staley) played sparingly or not at all but went on to contribute a lot in the future on some good teams.

That's just the last 5 classes that goes to prove that insane theory wrong.

We'll see a good number of freshman play next year (as usual) out of necessity, injury or just flat because they are studs.

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CLTWolf
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In reply to Struttingwolf96 • 11:32a, 7/14/19
Brown has played more in the OF after last year than the few games he played at 3B his FR year. You think he looked good at 3B? What games did he flash in? What was good about his play at 3B (which wasn't 2B) that makes him a better INF than OF. Two games come to mind for Devonte in RF, the unc game where he made at least 2 highlight reel plays out there and the throw he made against Wake in the ACC tourney to gun down the runner at home. Umps and the replay guy made an awful call but Brown gunned dude down.
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wilmwolf
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11:35a, 7/14/19
I'm confident that the staff will do what they always do, let the players prove it on the field in fall ball and early in the season. The cream will rise like it always does.
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Struttingwolf96
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In reply to CLTWolf • 11:43a, 7/14/19
I was talking about his FR. year, Brown played more in the IF than the OF. He was put in RF more his So. year to get his bat in the lineup.
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Struttingwolf96
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In reply to CLTWolf • 11:51a, 7/14/19
Mensik(3B) & McDonough(CF) were the only 2 Fr to play regularly last year. Thresh(C/DH) played sparingly. Nelson(RP) was the only Fr. in the pitching rotation. I don't call that playing a lot of Fr. The juco pitchers who pitched this year, I believe we're out of necessity not talent, the only one that doesn't fit that was Parker & he faltered at the end of the season. He did have a solid year though, but if he stayed I think he would have been better this year. It is shown that most Jucos have better years in there 2nd year.
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Struttingwolf96
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In reply to wilmwolf • 11:55a, 7/14/19
I agree there some. I thought Vazquez should have played more than Jarrett at 2B & McArthur should have never played in RF more at the end of the season than Tatum or Brown. Avent makes some questionable decisions at times when it comes to the players he gives playing time to. I'm not the only one to say this.
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Struttingwolf96
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In reply to CLTWolf • 11:57a, 7/14/19
I said a LOT of Freshmen. Don't consider 3 guys as being a lot.
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Struttingwolf96
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12:02p, 7/14/19
I also think Butler will make a big jump like Edwards did in his 2nd year.
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CLTWolf
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In reply to Struttingwolf96 • 12:17p, 7/14/19
No. He played in RF because he's more natural and better in the OF. Why didn't he play 3B when Mensik got hurt? He's a better hitter than Dillon Cooper, no? Why was McDonough brought in to play 2B when Jarrett was pulled in late innings if he's so good at 2B?
I looked it up...Devonte Brown played in the OF exclusively with the exception of 1 inning at 3B and 1 inning at 2B this year. Those 2 innings in the INF happened while Will Wilson was out.
Tyler McDonough played 2B in 10 different games this year.

Again, all the info needed is right there on google.
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wilmwolf
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12:25p, 7/14/19
Vasquez was playing more than Jarrett, but then he got injured. All of the right fielders were given ample opportunity to win the position, and none of them did. McArthur has always been very solid defensively. If you've got three guys at a position, and none of them are hitting, you go with the best defensive player, that's baseball 101. The staff knows what they are doing. And five posts in a row is pretty ridiculous.
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CLTWolf
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In reply to Struttingwolf96 • 12:35p, 7/14/19
OMG.

You're insufferable.

Actually 8 FR made it to the season on the team last year(I forgot to add our Czech kids, they aren't listed on PG)....4 played a lot. McDonough, Mensik, Nelson and Tresh. One in Whitaker redshirted. 4 out 8 isn't a lot? That's half the freshman on the team. HALF. 2 were starters and Nelson tied for 2nd most appearances of the pitchers on the team.

A 5th in Chlup played in 17 games and got 27 ABs.
A 6th in Andrew Tillery made 3 appearances.

Tresh played in more games and got more ABs than Devonte Brown did. He played more than sparingly.

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basementwolf
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In reply to wilmwolf • 2:56p, 7/14/19
wilmwolf80 said:
I'm confident that the staff will do what they always do, let the players prove it on the field in fall ball and early in the season. The cream will rise like it always does.
I agree with the first part.
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basementwolf
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In reply to wilmwolf • 3:05p, 7/14/19
wilmwolf80 said:
Vasquez was playing more than Jarrett, but then he got injured. All of the right fielders were given ample opportunity to win the position, and none of them did. McArthur has always been very solid defensively. If you've got three guys at a position, and none of them are hitting, you go with the best defensive player, that's baseball 101. The staff knows what they are doing. And five posts in a row is pretty ridiculous.
Hate Vasquez got hurt, I think he was coming around and developing into a solid player.

McArthur did not add that much defensively over the other too and was a liability with the bat. The other two should have platooned at the position; they may not have hit much better than McArthur but they had more potential with the bat.
And Tatum is blazing fast, so when he does get on, he can make things happen. Defensively, although Tatum can make some bonehead plays, the speed also allows him to make some great plays. Good arm too.
Thought Brown was solid and had potential with good power, just couldn't get consistent with the bat.
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wilmwolf
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In reply to basementwolf • 3:31p, 7/14/19
Without going back and looking at the stats, which I'm not going to do because I honestly don't care since this is just another flimsy shell of a discussion to question coaching decisions, I would guess that Tatum played more innings in right than anyone last year. He was given plenty of opportunity. It wasn't the great things he did the kept him from being the full time right fielder, because he has the potential. If you're the fastest guy on the team, you can't strike out every other time you bat. His swing did improve this year, but he still has a way to go. I enjoy watching him, and hope that he can secure the job. He just hasn't done it yet. McArthur came in frequently as a defensive replacement even when Deatherage was here, so they obviously feel that defense is is his strong suit. There's almost always a trade-off, we will never have a team full of guys that are great at everything.
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basementwolf
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In reply to wilmwolf • 4:06p, 7/14/19
wilmwolf80 said:
Without going back and looking at the stats, which I'm not going to do because I honestly don't care since this is just another flimsy shell of a discussion to question coaching decisions, I would guess that Tatum played more innings in right than anyone last year. He was given plenty of opportunity. It wasn't the great things he did the kept him from being the full time right fielder, because he has the potential. If you're the fastest guy on the team, you can't strike out every other time you bat. His swing did improve this year, but he still has a way to go. I enjoy watching him, and hope that he can secure the job. He just hasn't done it yet. McArthur came in frequently as a defensive replacement even when Deatherage was here, so they obviously feel that defense is is his strong suit. There's almost always a trade-off, we will never have a team full of guys that are great at everything.
Nice one.

I'm saying it doesn't make any sense to take out a .200 hitter who strikes out half his at bats, but has potential, and put in a sub .200 hitter who strikes out half his at bats, but has way less potential. Not saying it didn't make sense to keep trying other right fielders in place of Tatum, but.... McArthur wasn't the answer and was never going to be the answer as he can't hit the pitching at this level. Tatum doesn't always hit the pitching at this level, but he can (at least if their curveball ain't working that day). I do understand using him as a defensive replacement who would never come to the plate but that is not how he was always used.
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Struttingwolf96
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In reply to basementwolf • 6:19p, 7/14/19
Agree, nice point of view. Someone may WANT to argue about your opinion though.
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PossumJenkins
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9:15p, 7/14/19
Tatum went 19 for 92 at the plate. McArthur went 13 for 71. Really not much difference there. If you somehow see more potential in one over the other, fine but doesn't look very obvious to me. If there was more potential in any of them to me it was Brown. But we can argue potential til the cows come home
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PackFansXL
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In reply to PossumJenkins • 9:47p, 7/14/19
PossumJenkins said:
Tatum went 19 for 92 at the plate. McArthur went 13 for 71. Really not much difference there. If you somehow see more potential in one over the other, fine but doesn't look very obvious to me. If there was more potential in any of them to me it was Brown. But we can argue potential til the cows come home
Some of these folks would argue with you after the cow enters their living room and takes over the remote.
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