Werewolf said:

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"The issue that you keep ignoring is, why are we ballooning the deficit seemingly with the express purpose of helping the top-10% of earners/wealth-havers, with the BBB being net-neutral at best for the 90% of America that needs more help or relief as they try to survive/elevate/get ahead?"

1. A Democrat worrying about deficit and debt, LMAO.
2. Upper tax bracket did not change.

#Sieve, you need a cap with the words TRAITOR across the front. The words "I support TREASON and SEDITION" wrapped around the back.

---

Says the guy who posts 50 times a day for the express purpose of sowing distrust in American institutions, and who has never had a bad thing to say about Russia.

I think you might be projecting.

We shall see.

You happen to be the sorriest example of an American sovereign here.

THE FAT BASTARD HALPER MADE THE ENTIRE STORY UP!

WE’VE ALWAYS KNOW THIS.

THE CROOKED COPS INSIDE THE FBI AND THOSE IN THE WHITE HOUSE AND AT THE CIA ALL WENT ALONG—ALL DONE TO OVERTHROW THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

START ARRESTING PEOPLE! https://t.co/fs0hAncD0S

— General Mike Flynn (@GenFlynn) July 31, 2025

Oldsouljer said:

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FlossyDFlynt said:

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Was doing my morning reading and came across this Tweet that blew my mind

Pew Research is showing some incredible partisan swings from 2023 to 2025.

18-29 Men: 🔴R+44
18-29 Women: 🔴R+14
30-49 Men: 🔴R+15
30-49 Women: 🔵D+3
50-64 Men: 🔴R+3
50-64 Women: 🔴R+1
65+ Men: 🔵D+6
65+ Women: 🔵D+2 pic.twitter.com/YI6T2lpFqx

— Christian Heiens 🏛 (@ChristianHeiens) July 30, 2025

I knew Dems were struggling with young men, but I guess I underestimated how badly they are struggling with young men.

---

Who knows if this number is on target….pretty alarming for Dems if it's ballpark though. Pure speculation, but I'm guessing they want to be young men in a world that's telling them it's not OK to be young men.

---

Who is telling them it's not OK to be young men?

I've got an 18 year old son so something like that would certainly be memorable and I've literally never heard anything like that.

#Sueve and # Nappy got this gait too.

NEW: Don Lemon joins Harry Sisson "to save Democracy."

The pair walked side-by-side to a song that says "you walk like a b*tch."pic.twitter.com/WwWgJsaBSX

— Resist the Mainstream (@ResisttheMS) August 1, 2025

Civilized said:

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Oldsouljer said:

---

FlossyDFlynt said:

---

Was doing my morning reading and came across this Tweet that blew my mind

Pew Research is showing some incredible partisan swings from 2023 to 2025.

18-29 Men: 🔴R+44
18-29 Women: 🔴R+14
30-49 Men: 🔴R+15
30-49 Women: 🔵D+3
50-64 Men: 🔴R+3
50-64 Women: 🔴R+1
65+ Men: 🔵D+6
65+ Women: 🔵D+2 pic.twitter.com/YI6T2lpFqx

— Christian Heiens 🏛 (@ChristianHeiens) July 30, 2025

I knew Dems were struggling with young men, but I guess I underestimated how badly they are struggling with young men.

---

Who knows if this number is on target….pretty alarming for Dems if it's ballpark though. Pure speculation, but I'm guessing they want to be young men in a world that's telling them it's not OK to be young men.

---

Who is telling them it's not OK to be young men?

I've got an 18 year old son so something like that would certainly be memorable and I've literally never heard anything like that.

---

There's this thing called the "manosphere"... basically it's the same disinformation networks that have completely melted MAGA's brains, except it's targeted at low IQ young men.

Well we all knew Sleepy Joe was part of the conspiracy and now we have the facts. Joe took the lead on bringing up the Russian collusion case. He too, is guilty of Treason along with the rest of the traitors.

https://justthenews.com/government/white-house/biden-took-lead-tying-trump-putin-following-alleged-approval-clintons

How's our resident traitors feeling this morning? #Proud is a good bet.

We're just getting started and you #traitors will have more to be #proud of.

I recall someone in this thread who thought tariffs would start their impact in the 3rd quarter. I gotta go back and figure out who that was.

"A growing number of consumer goods companies are resorting to price hikes as they grapple with increased costs associated with tariffs." 😲 https://t.co/42pwe6yXoK pic.twitter.com/b13MeBuZ8j

— Scott Lincicome (@scottlincicome) August 1, 2025

"More [US] Manufacturing Professionals Say Tariffs Will Hurt Industry" 😲 https://t.co/UpU2aJ5CSl pic.twitter.com/G8ctN8NP6I

— Scott Lincicome (@scottlincicome) August 1, 2025

Also, CHIPS ACT is starting to become a real success Central Industrial Planning by the Federal Government works!!!

"Intel has just 18 months to 'land a hero customer on 14A' or its cutting-edge fabs are toast, says chip industry analyst" https://t.co/UnKrL0sY5U

— Scott Lincicome (@scottlincicome) August 1, 2025

hokiewolf said:

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I recall someone in this thread who thought tariffs would start their impact in the 3rd quarter. I gotta go back and figure out who that was.

"A growing number of consumer goods companies are resorting to price hikes as they grapple with increased costs associated with tariffs." 😲 https://t.co/42pwe6yXoK pic.twitter.com/b13MeBuZ8j

— Scott Lincicome (@scottlincicome) August 1, 2025

"More [US] Manufacturing Professionals Say Tariffs Will Hurt Industry" 😲 https://t.co/UpU2aJ5CSl pic.twitter.com/G8ctN8NP6I

— Scott Lincicome (@scottlincicome) August 1, 2025

Also, CHIPS ACT is starting to become a real success Central Industrial Planning by the Federal Government works!!!

"Intel has just 18 months to 'land a hero customer on 14A' or its cutting-edge fabs are toast, says chip industry analyst" https://t.co/UnKrL0sY5U

— Scott Lincicome (@scottlincicome) August 1, 2025

---

So what will inflation be in the third quarter? If you knew it would hit then, you must also know how much.

Civilized said:

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Gulfstream4 said:

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Civilized said:

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Oldsouljer said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Oldsouljer said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Lol. Revenues

WELCOME TO THE GOLDEN AGE ✨

Thanks to the leadership of @POTUS, the U.S. has generated over $150B in tariff revenues within the past 6 months. 💸 pic.twitter.com/f0nHQeXPtH

— The White House (@WhiteHouse) July 29, 2025

---

Come on Hokie, you are better than this.

What do the letters IRS stand for?

---

Prefect! Lets not act like this is anything but transferring money from private businesses and US citizens to the federal government via tax.

For some reason, Republicans have given up on the idea that private business is more efficient than the federal government.

But to sit here and pretend tariffs are not a tax increase, whether on consumers or businesses is getting old.

---

You keep saying this but I have not seen anyone claim differently. Maybe you have since you spend so much time talking about it.

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Huh? People here keep celebrating these turrible tariff deals that aren't deals at all.

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Prolly celebrating the income that comes with them for the time being u til the deals are reached.

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tariffs reduce the GDP growth, not increase it.

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Was speaking of revenue for the Treasury, not GDP. Supposedly, there was a historic surplus this past quarter, though I don't think that term is defined well enough to have meaning, in this instance. But that's what they'd be celebrating.

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The merits of that "surplus" analysis notwithstanding, how is that likely mythical "surplus" helping non-wealthy Americans?

What specifically are we celebrating?

That the mythical surplus inadequately offsets the tax breaks for the rich and resultant deficit increase from the bloated BBB?

---

Those tax breaks for the rich are also benefiting rich people on the left too.

You're doing pretty well for yourself, if I had to guess. Do you pay more than required for taxes? If not, why? This seems to be a big deal with you. Are you paying your fair share?

---

You keep focusing on the rich/upper 10%/whatever you want to call those that are doing fairly well. I have zero issue with capitalism creating wealth. I'm a business owner. That would be a crazy stance for me to take.

Focus on the other 90% of America though.

The issue that you keep ignoring is, why are we ballooning the deficit seemingly with the express purpose of helping the top-10% of earners/wealth-havers, with the BBB being net-neutral at best for the 90% of America that needs more help or relief as they try to survive/elevate/get ahead?

What do tariffs or the BBB do for the middle class, working poor, and poor in this country such that they should be celebrating the Treasury allegedly being more flush, or Trump negotiating tariff deals with our trade partners?

How does any of that impact the middle class, working poor, or those in poverty in this country?

---

Well, for one, I never got a job from a poor man. Have you?

Cthepack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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I recall someone in this thread who thought tariffs would start their impact in the 3rd quarter. I gotta go back and figure out who that was.

"A growing number of consumer goods companies are resorting to price hikes as they grapple with increased costs associated with tariffs." 😲 https://t.co/42pwe6yXoK pic.twitter.com/b13MeBuZ8j

— Scott Lincicome (@scottlincicome) August 1, 2025

"More [US] Manufacturing Professionals Say Tariffs Will Hurt Industry" 😲 https://t.co/UpU2aJ5CSl pic.twitter.com/G8ctN8NP6I

— Scott Lincicome (@scottlincicome) August 1, 2025

Also, CHIPS ACT is starting to become a real success Central Industrial Planning by the Federal Government works!!!

"Intel has just 18 months to 'land a hero customer on 14A' or its cutting-edge fabs are toast, says chip industry analyst" https://t.co/UnKrL0sY5U

— Scott Lincicome (@scottlincicome) August 1, 2025

---

So what will inflation be in the third quarter? If you knew it would hit then, you must also know how much.

---

I didn't know, as I said, it was just my opinion. I have no idea what inflation will be. Maybe it will be zero. My point again, is that tariffs will take private money out of the economy and limit growth. It will also effect the good stuff in the BBB bill that help business defer construction and tooling expenses and R&D expenses.

I want the economy to grow, mainly because it has to in order to cover the deficit spending. Otherwise, I think we are entering a world of pain.

I don't understand why everyone else on here can have an opinion on things except me. I don't pretend to be an expert on anything other than my job and industry. I do however listen to a lot of podcasts and follow folks who's job it is to know these things.

Everyone's opinion of me seems to be driven by a couple of posters who do nothing but enjoying posting insults directed at me.

You guys are welcome to DM me and tell me to go away, I will happily do so. We can clear the deck for spam posting and nonsense. Maybe that's what y'all want, I prefer discussion and respectful debate.

hokiewolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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I recall someone in this thread who thought tariffs would start their impact in the 3rd quarter. I gotta go back and figure out who that was.

"A growing number of consumer goods companies are resorting to price hikes as they grapple with increased costs associated with tariffs." 😲 https://t.co/42pwe6yXoK pic.twitter.com/b13MeBuZ8j

— Scott Lincicome (@scottlincicome) August 1, 2025

"More [US] Manufacturing Professionals Say Tariffs Will Hurt Industry" 😲 https://t.co/UpU2aJ5CSl pic.twitter.com/G8ctN8NP6I

— Scott Lincicome (@scottlincicome) August 1, 2025

Also, CHIPS ACT is starting to become a real success Central Industrial Planning by the Federal Government works!!!

"Intel has just 18 months to 'land a hero customer on 14A' or its cutting-edge fabs are toast, says chip industry analyst" https://t.co/UnKrL0sY5U

— Scott Lincicome (@scottlincicome) August 1, 2025

---

So what will inflation be in the third quarter? If you knew it would hit then, you must also know how much.

---

I didn't know, as I said, it was just my opinion. I have no idea what inflation will be. Maybe it will be zero. My point again, is that tariffs will take private money out of the economy and limit growth. It will also effect the good stuff in the BBB bill that help business defer construction and tooling expenses and R&D expenses.

I want the economy to grow, mainly because it has to in order to cover the deficit spending. Otherwise, I think we are entering a world of pain.

I don't understand why everyone else on here can have an opinion on things except me. I don't pretend to be an expert on anything other than my job and industry. I do however listen to a lot of podcasts and follow folks who's job it is to know these things.

Everyone's opinion of me seems to be driven by a couple of posters who do nothing but enjoying posting insults directed at me.

You guys are welcome to DM me and tell me to go away, I will happily do so. We can clear the deck for spam posting and nonsense. Maybe that's what y'all want, I prefer discussion and respectful debate.

---

I have no issue with you having an opinion. Being open my issue with you is you quote manufacturing hourly wages that are incorrect. And with a simple google search you can see the average is over $28/hr infringed. You also did not understand that you can do more with the same number of employees. I do this for a living so, as an expert, I do know what I am talking about. But you clearly stated that you can not do more with less. I consistently improve companies over 40%, meaning in terms of output a company making 10 per hour, I improve them to more than 14 per hour with the same or lower resources.

But it is a discussion board and you can have what ever opinion you want to have. As anyone else including me.

TheStorm said:

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hokiewolf said:

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You guys are welcome to DM me and tell me to go away, I will happily do so. We can clear the deck for spam posting and nonsense. Maybe that's what y'all want, I prefer discussion and respectful debate.

---

Drama much? Who here do you ever see supporting the spam posting? Most of us manage to somehow just ignore it (only because there is nothing else we can do about it)... I also enjoyed the "take my ball and go home" threat as well... it was cute.

---

The only poster I have on ignore is the guy that posts non stop in this thread. Makes for a much better read.

TheStorm said:

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hokiewolf said:

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You guys are welcome to DM me and tell me to go away, I will happily do so. We can clear the deck for spam posting and nonsense. Maybe that's what y'all want, I prefer discussion and respectful debate.

---

Drama much? Who here do you ever see supporting the spam posting? Most of us manage to somehow just ignore it (only because there is nothing else we can do about it)... I also enjoyed the "take my ball and go home" threat as well... it was cute.

---

I take that as a go away vote, Thank you for being honest.

Cthepack said:

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I have no issue with you having an opinion. Being open my issue with you is you quote manufacturing hourly wages that are incorrect. And with a simple google search you can see the average is over $28/hr infringed. You also did not understand that you can do more with the same number of employees. I do this for a living so, as an expert, I do know what I am talking about. But you clearly stated that you can not do more with less. I consistently improve companies over 40%, meaning in terms of output a company making 10 per hour, I improve them to more than 14 per hour with the same or lower resources.

But it is a discussion board and you can have what ever opinion you want to have. As anyone else including me.

---

I think we have a misunderstanding. The manufacturing hourly wage that I was talking about is in industries which were in NC but have moved out of country. So, there is no way furniture manufacturing, textile manufacturing, and meat processing makes $28/hr. The manufacturing that has gone overseas in NC is primarily low wage manufacturing jobs. There seems to be a desire to return those jobs back to NC at the detriment to better paying service jobs. That was my point.

hokiewolf said:

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TheStorm said:

---

hokiewolf said:

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You guys are welcome to DM me and tell me to go away, I will happily do so. We can clear the deck for spam posting and nonsense. Maybe that's what y'all want, I prefer discussion and respectful debate.

---

Drama much? Who here do you ever see supporting the spam posting? Most of us manage to somehow just ignore it (only because there is nothing else we can do about it)... I also enjoyed the "take my ball and go home" threat as well... it was cute.

---

I take that as a go away vote, Thank you for being honest.

---

I've never advocated for you to go away on these boards... not even once.

TheStorm said:

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hokiewolf said:

---

TheStorm said:

---

hokiewolf said:

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You guys are welcome to DM me and tell me to go away, I will happily do so. We can clear the deck for spam posting and nonsense. Maybe that's what y'all want, I prefer discussion and respectful debate.

---

Drama much? Who here do you ever see supporting the spam posting? Most of us manage to somehow just ignore it (only because there is nothing else we can do about it)... I also enjoyed the "take my ball and go home" threat as well... it was cute.

---

I take that as a go away vote, Thank you for being honest.

---

I've never advocated for you to go away on these boards... not even once.

---

Sure, not directly, but the majority of response to me are an attempt to belittle me, rather than challenge my point/opinion.

TheStorm said:

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hokiewolf said:

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TheStorm said:

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hokiewolf said:

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TheStorm said:

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hokiewolf said:

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You guys are welcome to DM me and tell me to go away, I will happily do so. We can clear the deck for spam posting and nonsense. Maybe that's what y'all want, I prefer discussion and respectful debate.

---

Drama much? Who here do you ever see supporting the spam posting? Most of us manage to somehow just ignore it (only because there is nothing else we can do about it)... I also enjoyed the "take my ball and go home" threat as well... it was cute.

---

I take that as a go away vote, Thank you for being honest.

---

I've never advocated for you to go away on these boards... not even once.

---

Sure, not directly, but the majority of response to me are an attempt to belittle me, rather than challenge my point/opinion.

---

Man, I hardly even get involved in any of the arguments around here anymore if we are being 100% honest... I've made plenty of posts supportive of you over the years as well, but I guess they don't count as much as the recent negative ones...

I don't understand the everything Trump-related hate, so you've got me there - but you aren't the only one on here guilty of that, so I'm not quite sure what your issue here is today that you feel you need to threaten to quit the board to prove some phantom point or whatever.

I'll try to leave you alone from now on and see if that helps any.

---

I don't hate Trump, and I don't hate everything he has done. Do I have issues with a lot of it? Yes, but I have been supportive when I see something I like the administration has done, That gets ignored

hokiewolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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I have no issue with you having an opinion. Being open my issue with you is you quote manufacturing hourly wages that are incorrect. And with a simple google search you can see the average is over $28/hr infringed. You also did not understand that you can do more with the same number of employees. I do this for a living so, as an expert, I do know what I am talking about. But you clearly stated that you can not do more with less. I consistently improve companies over 40%, meaning in terms of output a company making 10 per hour, I improve them to more than 14 per hour with the same or lower resources.

But it is a discussion board and you can have what ever opinion you want to have. As anyone else including me.

---

I think we have a misunderstanding. The manufacturing hourly wage that I was talking about is in industries which were in NC but have moved out of country. So, there is no way furniture manufacturing, textile manufacturing, and meat processing makes $28/hr. The manufacturing that has gone overseas in NC is primarily low wage manufacturing jobs. There seems to be a desire to return those jobs back to NC at the detriment to better paying service jobs. That was my point.

---

That it is not what you stated. Never once did you say your numbers were from NC. But a simple google search you can find the average manufacturing job in NC is over $24 an hour. Plus the tariffs are not only for NC they are for the total US so for context of tariffs and bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US we need to discuss the US not just NC.

ETA: Here is what I got when googling brining back textile jobs.

• Priority on other sectors: Donald Trump has indicated his focus is on industries like military equipment, computers, tanks, microchips, and artificial intelligence, rather than lower-skilled textile jobs like making T-shirts and socks, according to Reuters. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent, in April 2025, stated the goal was to bring back high-quality industrial jobs and precision manufacturing, not necessarily a booming textile industry, according to the New York Times.

Gulfstream4 said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Oldsouljer said:

---

FlossyDFlynt said:

---

Was doing my morning reading and came across this Tweet that blew my mind

Pew Research is showing some incredible partisan swings from 2023 to 2025.

18-29 Men: 🔴R+44
18-29 Women: 🔴R+14
30-49 Men: 🔴R+15
30-49 Women: 🔵D+3
50-64 Men: 🔴R+3
50-64 Women: 🔴R+1
65+ Men: 🔵D+6
65+ Women: 🔵D+2 pic.twitter.com/YI6T2lpFqx

— Christian Heiens 🏛 (@ChristianHeiens) July 30, 2025

I knew Dems were struggling with young men, but I guess I underestimated how badly they are struggling with young men.

---

Who knows if this number is on target….pretty alarming for Dems if it's ballpark though. Pure speculation, but I'm guessing they want to be young men in a world that's telling them it's not OK to be young men.

---

Who is telling them it's not OK to be young men?

I've got an 18 year old son so something like that would certainly be memorable and I've literally never heard anything like that.

---

Who? Liberalism, that's who. Liberalism teaches young men to hate their masculinity. Teaches young men to hate their race and their culture. Teaches young men to hate their country and their history. It does the same with young women too.

---

No, that's your caricature of liberalism.

Point to programs or teacher or politicians or whoever on any sort of scale that "teaches young men to hate their masculinity" or race or culture or country or history.

How old are your kids?

Cthepack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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I have no issue with you having an opinion. Being open my issue with you is you quote manufacturing hourly wages that are incorrect. And with a simple google search you can see the average is over $28/hr infringed. You also did not understand that you can do more with the same number of employees. I do this for a living so, as an expert, I do know what I am talking about. But you clearly stated that you can not do more with less. I consistently improve companies over 40%, meaning in terms of output a company making 10 per hour, I improve them to more than 14 per hour with the same or lower resources.

But it is a discussion board and you can have what ever opinion you want to have. As anyone else including me.

---

I think we have a misunderstanding. The manufacturing hourly wage that I was talking about is in industries which were in NC but have moved out of country. So, there is no way furniture manufacturing, textile manufacturing, and meat processing makes $28/hr. The manufacturing that has gone overseas in NC is primarily low wage manufacturing jobs. There seems to be a desire to return those jobs back to NC at the detriment to better paying service jobs. That was my point.

---

That it is not what you stated. Never once did you say your numbers were from NC. But a simple google search you can find the average manufacturing job in NC is over $24 an hour. Plus the tariffs are not only for NC they are for the total US so for context of tariffs and bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US we need to discuss the US not just NC.

ETA: Here is what I got when googling brining back textile jobs.

• Priority on other sectors: Donald Trump has indicated his focus is on industries like military equipment, computers, tanks, microchips, and artificial intelligence, rather than lower-skilled textile jobs like making T-shirts and socks, according to Reuters. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent, in April 2025, stated the goal was to bring back high-quality industrial jobs and precision manufacturing, not necessarily a booming textile industry, according to the New York Times.

---

Again, I was responding to something specific here specific posters were debating, not the policy of the Trump administration. I don't know why you are harping on this. Here is what googling what the average salary in the meat manufacturing industry brings back: As of Jul 25, 2025, the average hourly pay for a Meat Industry in the United States is $18.97 an hour.

I'm sorry I didn't do the research on what manufacturing jobs in NC currently average, because that wasn't my point.

My point still stands, there are many more service industry jobs that pay more, have better benefits, and better working conditions. They are also jobs more likely to be filled first than manufacturing jobs, of which there is a very large number of them already that can't be filled.

The policy of tariffs trades those jobs and other higher paying jobs for lower paying manufacturing jobs.

That has always been my point, but you seem to be stuck on one particular thing.

hokiewolf said:

---

Cthepack said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Cthepack said:

---

I have no issue with you having an opinion. Being open my issue with you is you quote manufacturing hourly wages that are incorrect. And with a simple google search you can see the average is over $28/hr infringed. You also did not understand that you can do more with the same number of employees. I do this for a living so, as an expert, I do know what I am talking about. But you clearly stated that you can not do more with less. I consistently improve companies over 40%, meaning in terms of output a company making 10 per hour, I improve them to more than 14 per hour with the same or lower resources.

But it is a discussion board and you can have what ever opinion you want to have. As anyone else including me.

---

I think we have a misunderstanding. The manufacturing hourly wage that I was talking about is in industries which were in NC but have moved out of country. So, there is no way furniture manufacturing, textile manufacturing, and meat processing makes $28/hr. The manufacturing that has gone overseas in NC is primarily low wage manufacturing jobs. There seems to be a desire to return those jobs back to NC at the detriment to better paying service jobs. That was my point.

---

That it is not what you stated. Never once did you say your numbers were from NC. But a simple google search you can find the average manufacturing job in NC is over $24 an hour. Plus the tariffs are not only for NC they are for the total US so for context of tariffs and bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US we need to discuss the US not just NC.

ETA: Here is what I got when googling brining back textile jobs.

• Priority on other sectors: Donald Trump has indicated his focus is on industries like military equipment, computers, tanks, microchips, and artificial intelligence, rather than lower-skilled textile jobs like making T-shirts and socks, according to Reuters. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent, in April 2025, stated the goal was to bring back high-quality industrial jobs and precision manufacturing, not necessarily a booming textile industry, according to the New York Times.

---

Again, I was responding to something specific here specific posters were debating, not the policy of the Trump administration. I don't know why you are harping on this. Here is what googling what the average salary in the meat manufacturing industry brings back: As of Jul 25, 2025, the average hourly pay for a Meat Industry in the United States is $18.97 an hour.

I'm sorry I didn't do the research on what manufacturing jobs in NC currently average, because that wasn't my point.

My point still stands, there are many more service industry jobs that pay more, have better benefits, and better working conditions. They are also jobs more likely to be filled first than manufacturing jobs, of which there is a very large number of them already that can't be filled.

The policy of tariffs trades those jobs and other higher paying jobs for lower paying manufacturing jobs.

That has always been my point, but you seem to be stuck on one particular thing.

---

what is the average hourly wage for service jobs?

Cthepack said:

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hokiewolf said:

---

Cthepack said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Cthepack said:

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I have no issue with you having an opinion. Being open my issue with you is you quote manufacturing hourly wages that are incorrect. And with a simple google search you can see the average is over $28/hr infringed. You also did not understand that you can do more with the same number of employees. I do this for a living so, as an expert, I do know what I am talking about. But you clearly stated that you can not do more with less. I consistently improve companies over 40%, meaning in terms of output a company making 10 per hour, I improve them to more than 14 per hour with the same or lower resources.

But it is a discussion board and you can have what ever opinion you want to have. As anyone else including me.

---

I think we have a misunderstanding. The manufacturing hourly wage that I was talking about is in industries which were in NC but have moved out of country. So, there is no way furniture manufacturing, textile manufacturing, and meat processing makes $28/hr. The manufacturing that has gone overseas in NC is primarily low wage manufacturing jobs. There seems to be a desire to return those jobs back to NC at the detriment to better paying service jobs. That was my point.

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That it is not what you stated. Never once did you say your numbers were from NC. But a simple google search you can find the average manufacturing job in NC is over $24 an hour. Plus the tariffs are not only for NC they are for the total US so for context of tariffs and bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US we need to discuss the US not just NC.

ETA: Here is what I got when googling brining back textile jobs.

• Priority on other sectors: Donald Trump has indicated his focus is on industries like military equipment, computers, tanks, microchips, and artificial intelligence, rather than lower-skilled textile jobs like making T-shirts and socks, according to Reuters. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent, in April 2025, stated the goal was to bring back high-quality industrial jobs and precision manufacturing, not necessarily a booming textile industry, according to the New York Times.

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Again, I was responding to something specific here specific posters were debating, not the policy of the Trump administration. I don't know why you are harping on this. Here is what googling what the average salary in the meat manufacturing industry brings back: As of Jul 25, 2025, the average hourly pay for a Meat Industry in the United States is $18.97 an hour.

I'm sorry I didn't do the research on what manufacturing jobs in NC currently average, because that wasn't my point.

My point still stands, there are many more service industry jobs that pay more, have better benefits, and better working conditions. They are also jobs more likely to be filled first than manufacturing jobs, of which there is a very large number of them already that can't be filled.

The policy of tariffs trades those jobs and other higher paying jobs for lower paying manufacturing jobs.

That has always been my point, but you seem to be stuck on one particular thing.

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what is the average hourly wage for service jobs?

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In commercial construction in NC, $24/hr is what you can make starting as a laborer. The hourly wage depends on what trade you are working in and what crew position you are in. But your ceiling is incredibly much more higher. I've seen people start at pushing a broom and earn 6 figures in a relatively short time period. Same with tradesmen, they can acquire skills and knowledge early in their lives and go on to start their own business.

Hell, there is better opportunity working as a fry cook at McDonalds, you can become President of the United States! Kidding aside, there are numerous examples of people starting at the bottom, showing the initiative and becoming operators and franchise owners of McDonalds, Chic-Fil-A, etc.

That simply doesn't happen in manufacturing. I know a guy who has worked for 30 years in a food plant in NY and has made it all the way up to production foreman. This is a guy who was in the military, is highly motivated, wants the promotion, but this is the only steady job in his area of Upstate NY, where he needs to be.

hokiewolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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I have no issue with you having an opinion. Being open my issue with you is you quote manufacturing hourly wages that are incorrect. And with a simple google search you can see the average is over $28/hr infringed. You also did not understand that you can do more with the same number of employees. I do this for a living so, as an expert, I do know what I am talking about. But you clearly stated that you can not do more with less. I consistently improve companies over 40%, meaning in terms of output a company making 10 per hour, I improve them to more than 14 per hour with the same or lower resources.

But it is a discussion board and you can have what ever opinion you want to have. As anyone else including me.

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I think we have a misunderstanding. The manufacturing hourly wage that I was talking about is in industries which were in NC but have moved out of country. So, there is no way furniture manufacturing, textile manufacturing, and meat processing makes $28/hr. The manufacturing that has gone overseas in NC is primarily low wage manufacturing jobs. There seems to be a desire to return those jobs back to NC at the detriment to better paying service jobs. That was my point.

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That it is not what you stated. Never once did you say your numbers were from NC. But a simple google search you can find the average manufacturing job in NC is over $24 an hour. Plus the tariffs are not only for NC they are for the total US so for context of tariffs and bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US we need to discuss the US not just NC.

ETA: Here is what I got when googling brining back textile jobs.

• Priority on other sectors: Donald Trump has indicated his focus is on industries like military equipment, computers, tanks, microchips, and artificial intelligence, rather than lower-skilled textile jobs like making T-shirts and socks, according to Reuters. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent, in April 2025, stated the goal was to bring back high-quality industrial jobs and precision manufacturing, not necessarily a booming textile industry, according to the New York Times.

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Again, I was responding to something specific here specific posters were debating, not the policy of the Trump administration. I don't know why you are harping on this. Here is what googling what the average salary in the meat manufacturing industry brings back: As of Jul 25, 2025, the average hourly pay for a Meat Industry in the United States is $18.97 an hour.

I'm sorry I didn't do the research on what manufacturing jobs in NC currently average, because that wasn't my point.

My point still stands, there are many more service industry jobs that pay more, have better benefits, and better working conditions. They are also jobs more likely to be filled first than manufacturing jobs, of which there is a very large number of them already that can't be filled.

The policy of tariffs trades those jobs and other higher paying jobs for lower paying manufacturing jobs.

That has always been my point, but you seem to be stuck on one particular thing.

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what is the average hourly wage for service jobs?

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In commercial construction in NC, $24/hr is what you can make starting as a laborer. The hourly wage depends on what trade you are working in and what crew position you are in. But your ceiling is incredibly much more higher. I've seen people start at pushing a broom and earn 6 figures in a relatively short time period. Same with tradesmen, they can acquire skills and knowledge early in their lives and go on to start their own business.

Hell, there is better opportunity working as a fry cook at McDonalds, you can become President of the United States! Kidding aside, there are numerous examples of people starting at the bottom, showing the initiative and becoming operators and franchise owners of McDonalds, Chic-Fil-A, etc.

That simply doesn't happen in manufacturing. I know a guy who has worked for 30 years in a food plant in NY and has made it all the way up to production foreman. This is a guy who was in the military, is highly motivated, wants the promotion, but this is the only steady job in his area of Upstate NY, where he needs to be.

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The average service job in the US is $18 per hour. NC $17. Absolutely ownership happens in manufacturing. I I know a lot of small (what I call mom and pop) companies where employees having worked a long time and had ownership (a stake in a company / equity / stock not public) in the company.

And you do not have to have worked at McDonalds or Chic - Fil - A to buy a franchise and become an owner. Matter of fact McDonalds does not sell a franchise any cheaper to an employee or someone from outside. So you can work in manufacturing and buy a franchise if you like. So flipping burgers offers no advantage to buying a franchise than someone who worked elsewhere.

hokiewolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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I have no issue with you having an opinion. Being open my issue with you is you quote manufacturing hourly wages that are incorrect. And with a simple google search you can see the average is over $28/hr infringed. You also did not understand that you can do more with the same number of employees. I do this for a living so, as an expert, I do know what I am talking about. But you clearly stated that you can not do more with less. I consistently improve companies over 40%, meaning in terms of output a company making 10 per hour, I improve them to more than 14 per hour with the same or lower resources.

But it is a discussion board and you can have what ever opinion you want to have. As anyone else including me.

---

I think we have a misunderstanding. The manufacturing hourly wage that I was talking about is in industries which were in NC but have moved out of country. So, there is no way furniture manufacturing, textile manufacturing, and meat processing makes $28/hr. The manufacturing that has gone overseas in NC is primarily low wage manufacturing jobs. There seems to be a desire to return those jobs back to NC at the detriment to better paying service jobs. That was my point.

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That it is not what you stated. Never once did you say your numbers were from NC. But a simple google search you can find the average manufacturing job in NC is over $24 an hour. Plus the tariffs are not only for NC they are for the total US so for context of tariffs and bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US we need to discuss the US not just NC.

ETA: Here is what I got when googling brining back textile jobs.

• Priority on other sectors: Donald Trump has indicated his focus is on industries like military equipment, computers, tanks, microchips, and artificial intelligence, rather than lower-skilled textile jobs like making T-shirts and socks, according to Reuters. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent, in April 2025, stated the goal was to bring back high-quality industrial jobs and precision manufacturing, not necessarily a booming textile industry, according to the New York Times.

---

Again, I was responding to something specific here specific posters were debating, not the policy of the Trump administration. I don't know why you are harping on this. Here is what googling what the average salary in the meat manufacturing industry brings back: As of Jul 25, 2025, the average hourly pay for a Meat Industry in the United States is $18.97 an hour.

I'm sorry I didn't do the research on what manufacturing jobs in NC currently average, because that wasn't my point.

My point still stands, there are many more service industry jobs that pay more, have better benefits, and better working conditions. They are also jobs more likely to be filled first than manufacturing jobs, of which there is a very large number of them already that can't be filled.

The policy of tariffs trades those jobs and other higher paying jobs for lower paying manufacturing jobs.

That has always been my point, but you seem to be stuck on one particular thing.

---

what is the average hourly wage for service jobs?

---

In commercial construction in NC, $24/hr is what you can make starting as a laborer. The hourly wage depends on what trade you are working in and what crew position you are in. But your ceiling is incredibly much more higher. I've seen people start at pushing a broom and earn 6 figures in a relatively short time period. Same with tradesmen, they can acquire skills and knowledge early in their lives and go on to start their own business.

Hell, there is better opportunity working as a fry cook at McDonalds, you can become President of the United States! Kidding aside, there are numerous examples of people starting at the bottom, showing the initiative and becoming operators and franchise owners of McDonalds, Chic-Fil-A, etc.

That simply doesn't happen in manufacturing. I know a guy who has worked for 30 years in a food plant in NY and has made it all the way up to production foreman. This is a guy who was in the military, is highly motivated, wants the promotion, but this is the only steady job in his area of Upstate NY, where he needs to be.

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Yep, construction small business ownership scales down in ways that manufacturing simply can't touch. You can make an excellent living as a business owner in a trade with a small shop. You can't profitably run a 8-man pork production plant as easily, or probably at all.

One of our special-project electricians spun out of a big production company several years ago and has focused on EV charger retrofit installs in the Triangle. He's doing 100-150 charger installs a month with three or four small crews @ $1400/per install n/i the charger itself. There's labor and material costs and overhead in there obviously but high-level he's probably profiting $200k-$300k a year, order of magnitude, on top of paying himself a good salary.

And that's every skilled trade. There are those same opportunities in plumbing, mechanical, etc. and lower margins but even lower barriers to entry in trades like paint and drywall. And lIke you said, even unskilled labor in this industry makes good money if they're willing to put in the time (and in many cases, put up with the risk and physical danger of working on construction sites)

Civilized said:

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Gulfstream4 said:

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Civilized said:

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Oldsouljer said:

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FlossyDFlynt said:

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Was doing my morning reading and came across this Tweet that blew my mind

Pew Research is showing some incredible partisan swings from 2023 to 2025.

18-29 Men: 🔴R+44
18-29 Women: 🔴R+14
30-49 Men: 🔴R+15
30-49 Women: 🔵D+3
50-64 Men: 🔴R+3
50-64 Women: 🔴R+1
65+ Men: 🔵D+6
65+ Women: 🔵D+2 pic.twitter.com/YI6T2lpFqx

— Christian Heiens 🏛 (@ChristianHeiens) July 30, 2025

I knew Dems were struggling with young men, but I guess I underestimated how badly they are struggling with young men.

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Who knows if this number is on target….pretty alarming for Dems if it's ballpark though. Pure speculation, but I'm guessing they want to be young men in a world that's telling them it's not OK to be young men.

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Who is telling them it's not OK to be young men?

I've got an 18 year old son so something like that would certainly be memorable and I've literally never heard anything like that.

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Who? Liberalism, that's who. Liberalism teaches young men to hate their masculinity. Teaches young men to hate their race and their culture. Teaches young men to hate their country and their history. It does the same with young women too.

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No, that's your caricature of liberalism.

Point to programs or teacher or politicians or whoever on any sort of scale that "teaches young men to hate their masculinity" or race or culture or country or history.

How old are your kids?

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I don't have kids but if I did I would work three jobs to keep them out of public schools and away from these activists masquerading as teachers. I have a niece indoctrinated now she's telling my brother she wants to be my nephew. Yay liberalism.

Gulfstream4 said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

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DrummerboyWolf said:

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Here is a 20 minute interview of Tulsi Gabbard with Glenn Beck. I believe it was recorded last night before the information dropped this morning. I am sure that Tulsi and I don't agree on everything, but there is no denying that this woman is a True Patriot and has served this country for over 20 years as an officer in the military. She is doing a fantastic job.

There might be a few quick ads in the video, but they are only for 5 seconds and then you can skip.

https://rumble.com/v6wy0ic--tulsi-gabbards-message-you-need-to-hear-.html

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The Trump admin has been TRANSPARENTLY dredging up everything they can come up with to get you to stop asking about Epstein. Miraculously they discovered these other files about Dems that they are able to release right now! Can you believe it?!

Honest question: Can you guys really not see that you're being led around by the nose? Or are you just in on the con?

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Another way of looking at it is the democrats can't win on policy or really anything else so all they do is distract with Epstein this and Epstein that to keep their cult followers outraged.

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Another way of looking at it is that MAGA are the ones that keep bringing up Epstein. Even guys like Joe Rogan are now asking why Trump is gaslighting you. Good to know that the Water Cooler represents the dumbest and most gullible wing of MAGA.

At least we have the answer now to the age old question, "Man, do you think these MAGA loons would support Trump even if he molested a 12 year old?" The answer is ABSOLUTELY!