hokiewolf said:

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TheStorm said:

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hokiewolf said:

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TheStorm said:

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hokiewolf said:

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You guys are welcome to DM me and tell me to go away, I will happily do so. We can clear the deck for spam posting and nonsense. Maybe that's what y'all want, I prefer discussion and respectful debate.

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Drama much? Who here do you ever see supporting the spam posting? Most of us manage to somehow just ignore it (only because there is nothing else we can do about it)... I also enjoyed the "take my ball and go home" threat as well... it was cute.

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I take that as a go away vote, Thank you for being honest.

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I've never advocated for you to go away on these boards... not even once.

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Sure, not directly, but the majority of response to me are an attempt to belittle me, rather than challenge my point/opinion.

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Civilized said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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I have no issue with you having an opinion. Being open my issue with you is you quote manufacturing hourly wages that are incorrect. And with a simple google search you can see the average is over $28/hr infringed. You also did not understand that you can do more with the same number of employees. I do this for a living so, as an expert, I do know what I am talking about. But you clearly stated that you can not do more with less. I consistently improve companies over 40%, meaning in terms of output a company making 10 per hour, I improve them to more than 14 per hour with the same or lower resources.

But it is a discussion board and you can have what ever opinion you want to have. As anyone else including me.

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I think we have a misunderstanding. The manufacturing hourly wage that I was talking about is in industries which were in NC but have moved out of country. So, there is no way furniture manufacturing, textile manufacturing, and meat processing makes $28/hr. The manufacturing that has gone overseas in NC is primarily low wage manufacturing jobs. There seems to be a desire to return those jobs back to NC at the detriment to better paying service jobs. That was my point.

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That it is not what you stated. Never once did you say your numbers were from NC. But a simple google search you can find the average manufacturing job in NC is over $24 an hour. Plus the tariffs are not only for NC they are for the total US so for context of tariffs and bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US we need to discuss the US not just NC.

ETA: Here is what I got when googling brining back textile jobs.

• Priority on other sectors: Donald Trump has indicated his focus is on industries like military equipment, computers, tanks, microchips, and artificial intelligence, rather than lower-skilled textile jobs like making T-shirts and socks, according to Reuters. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent, in April 2025, stated the goal was to bring back high-quality industrial jobs and precision manufacturing, not necessarily a booming textile industry, according to the New York Times.

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Again, I was responding to something specific here specific posters were debating, not the policy of the Trump administration. I don't know why you are harping on this. Here is what googling what the average salary in the meat manufacturing industry brings back: As of Jul 25, 2025, the average hourly pay for a Meat Industry in the United States is $18.97 an hour.

I'm sorry I didn't do the research on what manufacturing jobs in NC currently average, because that wasn't my point.

My point still stands, there are many more service industry jobs that pay more, have better benefits, and better working conditions. They are also jobs more likely to be filled first than manufacturing jobs, of which there is a very large number of them already that can't be filled.

The policy of tariffs trades those jobs and other higher paying jobs for lower paying manufacturing jobs.

That has always been my point, but you seem to be stuck on one particular thing.

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what is the average hourly wage for service jobs?

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In commercial construction in NC, $24/hr is what you can make starting as a laborer. The hourly wage depends on what trade you are working in and what crew position you are in. But your ceiling is incredibly much more higher. I've seen people start at pushing a broom and earn 6 figures in a relatively short time period. Same with tradesmen, they can acquire skills and knowledge early in their lives and go on to start their own business.

Hell, there is better opportunity working as a fry cook at McDonalds, you can become President of the United States! Kidding aside, there are numerous examples of people starting at the bottom, showing the initiative and becoming operators and franchise owners of McDonalds, Chic-Fil-A, etc.

That simply doesn't happen in manufacturing. I know a guy who has worked for 30 years in a food plant in NY and has made it all the way up to production foreman. This is a guy who was in the military, is highly motivated, wants the promotion, but this is the only steady job in his area of Upstate NY, where he needs to be.

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Yep, construction small business ownership scales down in ways that manufacturing simply can't touch. You can make an excellent living as a business owner in a trade with a small shop. You can't profitably run a 8-man pork production plant as easily, or probably at all.

One of our special-project electricians spun out of a big production company several years ago and has focused on EV charger retrofit installs in the Triangle. He's doing 100-150 charger installs a month with three or four small crews @ $1400/per install n/i the charger itself. There's labor and material costs and overhead in there obviously but high-level he's probably profiting $200k-$300k a year, order of magnitude, on top of paying himself a good salary.

And that's every skilled trade. There are those same opportunities in plumbing, mechanical, etc. and lower margins but even lower barriers to entry in trades like paint and drywall. And lIke you said, even unskilled labor in this industry makes good money if they're willing to put in the time (and in many cases, put up with the risk and physical danger of working on construction sites)

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hokiewolf said:

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TheStorm said:

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hokiewolf said:

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TheStorm said:

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hokiewolf said:

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TheStorm said:

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hokiewolf said:

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You guys are welcome to DM me and tell me to go away, I will happily do so. We can clear the deck for spam posting and nonsense. Maybe that's what y'all want, I prefer discussion and respectful debate.

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Drama much? Who here do you ever see supporting the spam posting? Most of us manage to somehow just ignore it (only because there is nothing else we can do about it)... I also enjoyed the "take my ball and go home" threat as well... it was cute.

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I take that as a go away vote, Thank you for being honest.

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I've never advocated for you to go away on these boards... not even once.

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Sure, not directly, but the majority of response to me are an attempt to belittle me, rather than challenge my point/opinion.

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Man, I hardly even get involved in any of the arguments around here anymore if we are being 100% honest... I've made plenty of posts supportive of you over the years as well, but I guess they don't count as much as the recent negative ones...

I don't understand the everything Trump-related hate, so you've got me there - but you aren't the only one on here guilty of that, so I'm not quite sure what your issue here is today that you feel you need to threaten to quit the board to prove some phantom point or whatever.

I'll try to leave you alone from now on and see if that helps any.

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I don't hate Trump, and I don't hate everything he has done. Do I have issues with a lot of it? Yes, but I have been supportive when I see something I like the administration has done, That gets ignored

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Cthepack said:

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Civilized said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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I have no issue with you having an opinion. Being open my issue with you is you quote manufacturing hourly wages that are incorrect. And with a simple google search you can see the average is over $28/hr infringed. You also did not understand that you can do more with the same number of employees. I do this for a living so, as an expert, I do know what I am talking about. But you clearly stated that you can not do more with less. I consistently improve companies over 40%, meaning in terms of output a company making 10 per hour, I improve them to more than 14 per hour with the same or lower resources.

But it is a discussion board and you can have what ever opinion you want to have. As anyone else including me.

---

I think we have a misunderstanding. The manufacturing hourly wage that I was talking about is in industries which were in NC but have moved out of country. So, there is no way furniture manufacturing, textile manufacturing, and meat processing makes $28/hr. The manufacturing that has gone overseas in NC is primarily low wage manufacturing jobs. There seems to be a desire to return those jobs back to NC at the detriment to better paying service jobs. That was my point.

---

That it is not what you stated. Never once did you say your numbers were from NC. But a simple google search you can find the average manufacturing job in NC is over $24 an hour. Plus the tariffs are not only for NC they are for the total US so for context of tariffs and bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US we need to discuss the US not just NC.

ETA: Here is what I got when googling brining back textile jobs.

• Priority on other sectors: Donald Trump has indicated his focus is on industries like military equipment, computers, tanks, microchips, and artificial intelligence, rather than lower-skilled textile jobs like making T-shirts and socks, according to Reuters. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent, in April 2025, stated the goal was to bring back high-quality industrial jobs and precision manufacturing, not necessarily a booming textile industry, according to the New York Times.

---

Again, I was responding to something specific here specific posters were debating, not the policy of the Trump administration. I don't know why you are harping on this. Here is what googling what the average salary in the meat manufacturing industry brings back: As of Jul 25, 2025, the average hourly pay for a Meat Industry in the United States is $18.97 an hour.

I'm sorry I didn't do the research on what manufacturing jobs in NC currently average, because that wasn't my point.

My point still stands, there are many more service industry jobs that pay more, have better benefits, and better working conditions. They are also jobs more likely to be filled first than manufacturing jobs, of which there is a very large number of them already that can't be filled.

The policy of tariffs trades those jobs and other higher paying jobs for lower paying manufacturing jobs.

That has always been my point, but you seem to be stuck on one particular thing.

---

what is the average hourly wage for service jobs?

---

In commercial construction in NC, $24/hr is what you can make starting as a laborer. The hourly wage depends on what trade you are working in and what crew position you are in. But your ceiling is incredibly much more higher. I've seen people start at pushing a broom and earn 6 figures in a relatively short time period. Same with tradesmen, they can acquire skills and knowledge early in their lives and go on to start their own business.

Hell, there is better opportunity working as a fry cook at McDonalds, you can become President of the United States! Kidding aside, there are numerous examples of people starting at the bottom, showing the initiative and becoming operators and franchise owners of McDonalds, Chic-Fil-A, etc.

That simply doesn't happen in manufacturing. I know a guy who has worked for 30 years in a food plant in NY and has made it all the way up to production foreman. This is a guy who was in the military, is highly motivated, wants the promotion, but this is the only steady job in his area of Upstate NY, where he needs to be.

---

Yep, construction small business ownership scales down in ways that manufacturing simply can't touch. You can make an excellent living as a business owner in a trade with a small shop. You can't profitably run a 8-man pork production plant as easily, or probably at all.

One of our special-project electricians spun out of a big production company several years ago and has focused on EV charger retrofit installs in the Triangle. He's doing 100-150 charger installs a month with three or four small crews @ $1400/per install n/i the charger itself. There's labor and material costs and overhead in there obviously but high-level he's probably profiting $200k-$300k a year, order of magnitude, on top of paying himself a good salary.

And that's every skilled trade. There are those same opportunities in plumbing, mechanical, etc. and lower margins but even lower barriers to entry in trades like paint and drywall. And lIke you said, even unskilled labor in this industry makes good money if they're willing to put in the time (and in many cases, put up with the risk and physical danger of working on construction sites)

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Fully support that trades is a great path and more people working in them are needed.

I am going to disagree on scalling down in manufacturing. Ever since the interwebs and connecting people there are hundreds of examples of small manufacturing (electronics, computers, Art, crafts, making things...etc) that are very small but doing well. Not done much work in food production plants but dont farmers butcher and sell meat? Small scale right?

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Gulfstream4 said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

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Gulfstream4 said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

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DrummerboyWolf said:

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Here is a 20 minute interview of Tulsi Gabbard with Glenn Beck. I believe it was recorded last night before the information dropped this morning. I am sure that Tulsi and I don't agree on everything, but there is no denying that this woman is a True Patriot and has served this country for over 20 years as an officer in the military. She is doing a fantastic job.

There might be a few quick ads in the video, but they are only for 5 seconds and then you can skip.

https://rumble.com/v6wy0ic--tulsi-gabbards-message-you-need-to-hear-.html

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The Trump admin has been TRANSPARENTLY dredging up everything they can come up with to get you to stop asking about Epstein. Miraculously they discovered these other files about Dems that they are able to release right now! Can you believe it?!

Honest question: Can you guys really not see that you're being led around by the nose? Or are you just in on the con?

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Another way of looking at it is the democrats can't win on policy or really anything else so all they do is distract with Epstein this and Epstein that to keep their cult followers outraged.

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Another way of looking at it is that MAGA are the ones that keep bringing up Epstein. Even guys like Joe Rogan are now asking why Trump is gaslighting you. Good to know that the Water Cooler represents the dumbest and most gullible wing of MAGA.

At least we have the answer now to the age old question, "Man, do you think these MAGA loons would support Trump even if he molested a 12 year old?" The answer is ABSOLUTELY!

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Brother- you are out there

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TheStorm said:

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hokiewolf said:

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You guys are welcome to DM me and tell me to go away, I will happily do so. We can clear the deck for spam posting and nonsense. Maybe that's what y'all want, I prefer discussion and respectful debate.

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Drama much? Who here do you ever see supporting the spam posting? Most of us manage to somehow just ignore it (only because there is nothing else we can do about it)... I also enjoyed the "take my ball and go home" threat as well... it was cute.

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Here she is.

BRENNAN’S HANDMAIDEN hidden in plain view?

Obama CIA chief John Brennan handpicked Gina Haspel to oversee the London station - she was there during creation of Steele dossier.

Kash said she blocked Russiagate evidence.

Are we taking bets? pic.twitter.com/EBPfROiRVn

— Chanel Rion OAN (@ChanelRion) July 31, 2025

BBW12OG said:

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TheStorm said:

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hokiewolf said:

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You guys are welcome to DM me and tell me to go away, I will happily do so. We can clear the deck for spam posting and nonsense. Maybe that's what y'all want, I prefer discussion and respectful debate.

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Drama much? Who here do you ever see supporting the spam posting? Most of us manage to somehow just ignore it (only because there is nothing else we can do about it)... I also enjoyed the "take my ball and go home" threat as well... it was cute.

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Pinocchio is nothing but a whiny ass spoiled rotten living off mommy and daddy's hard work millennial who needs constant validation for his emotional stability.

The why is that he has NEVER contributed a damn thing to society other than the mindless BS he posts on here daily.

Between whining to the MODS and regurgitating Morning Joe nonsense the dude is your typical beta cuckboy.

Don't give him the validation. Tell him to F off. He's one of the things wrong with the world today!

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packgrad said:

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lol at Civ's willful ignorance

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Civilized said:

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DrummerboyWolf said:

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Trump says he wants to release everything related to Epstein. He says he does not want people(victims) to get hurt from that release, but he wants to release it all. Doesn't sound like a man who is tangled up in the mess now does it?

https://justthenews.com/government/white-house/trump-says-he-wants-release-everything-related-jeffrey-epstein

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Then why haven't Bondi and others articulated exactly that?

Why the Maxwell subplot and transfer?

And regardless, who cares what he says? We all know at this point he just says whatever pops into his head, and he also lies constantly. The only thing that matters is what he does.

What he does is everything

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Gulfstream4 said:

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Civilized said:

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DrummerboyWolf said:

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Trump says he wants to release everything related to Epstein. He says he does not want people(victims) to get hurt from that release, but he wants to release it all. Doesn't sound like a man who is tangled up in the mess now does it?

https://justthenews.com/government/white-house/trump-says-he-wants-release-everything-related-jeffrey-epstein

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Then why haven't Bondi and others articulated exactly that?

Why the Maxwell subplot and transfer?

And regardless, who cares what he says? We all know at this point he just says whatever pops into his head, and he also lies constantly. The only thing that matters is what he does.

What he does is everything

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How about we let it play out? Geez, you ever notice you hyperventilate over EVERYTHING and sometime later it turns out no big deal.

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Civilized said:

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Gulfstream4 said:

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Civilized said:

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DrummerboyWolf said:

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Trump says he wants to release everything related to Epstein. He says he does not want people(victims) to get hurt from that release, but he wants to release it all. Doesn't sound like a man who is tangled up in the mess now does it?

https://justthenews.com/government/white-house/trump-says-he-wants-release-everything-related-jeffrey-epstein

---

Then why haven't Bondi and others articulated exactly that?

Why the Maxwell subplot and transfer?

And regardless, who cares what he says? We all know at this point he just says whatever pops into his head, and he also lies constantly. The only thing that matters is what he does.

What he does is everything

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How about we let it play out? Geez, you ever notice you hyperventilate over EVERYTHING and sometime later it turns out no big deal.

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Tell that to the half of MAGA that's hyperventilating because Trump isn't curing the conspiracy that ails them. That's who Trump has to answer to. Not me.

Would love to hear your speculation though about why Trump had a pedo moved to a Club Med work camp from an actual prison.

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packgrad said:

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Gulfstream4 said:

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Civilized said:

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Gulfstream4 said:

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Civilized said:

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DrummerboyWolf said:

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Trump says he wants to release everything related to Epstein. He says he does not want people(victims) to get hurt from that release, but he wants to release it all. Doesn't sound like a man who is tangled up in the mess now does it?

https://justthenews.com/government/white-house/trump-says-he-wants-release-everything-related-jeffrey-epstein

---

Then why haven't Bondi and others articulated exactly that?

Why the Maxwell subplot and transfer?

And regardless, who cares what he says? We all know at this point he just says whatever pops into his head, and he also lies constantly. The only thing that matters is what he does.

What he does is everything

---

How about we let it play out? Geez, you ever notice you hyperventilate over EVERYTHING and sometime later it turns out no big deal.

---

Tell that to the half of MAGA that's hyperventilating because Trump isn't curing the conspiracy that ails them. That's who Trump has to answer to. Not me.

Would love to hear your speculation though about why Trump had a pedo moved to a Club Med work camp from an actual prison.

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My pure speculation is Mrs. Maxwell is rich and knows a lot of powerful people on both sides of the aisle. Again, pure speculation but there are people that want her moved. Do you think she's the very first person to have this happen?

Either way, I'll let things play out but I understand you're worried about what she might say when you were just THIS close to getting Trump after all these years.

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It's extremely important to him for all this Epstein stuff to be terrible for Trump, truth be damned. He looks like a colossal fool with all the Russia!!!! stuff now. He used to very much hyperventilate about that as well. And Covid. And mansplaining. And hands up don't shoot. And insurrection. And Kavanaugh being a rapist. Whatever the Democrat cry of the day is. Civ is a good lapdog.

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packgrad said:

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Gulfstream4 said:

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Civilized said:

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Gulfstream4 said:

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Civilized said:

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DrummerboyWolf said:

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Trump says he wants to release everything related to Epstein. He says he does not want people(victims) to get hurt from that release, but he wants to release it all. Doesn't sound like a man who is tangled up in the mess now does it?

https://justthenews.com/government/white-house/trump-says-he-wants-release-everything-related-jeffrey-epstein

---

Then why haven't Bondi and others articulated exactly that?

Why the Maxwell subplot and transfer?

And regardless, who cares what he says? We all know at this point he just says whatever pops into his head, and he also lies constantly. The only thing that matters is what he does.

What he does is everything

---

How about we let it play out? Geez, you ever notice you hyperventilate over EVERYTHING and sometime later it turns out no big deal.

---

Tell that to the half of MAGA that's hyperventilating because Trump isn't curing the conspiracy that ails them. That's who Trump has to answer to. Not me.

Would love to hear your speculation though about why Trump had a pedo moved to a Club Med work camp from an actual prison.

---

My pure speculation is Mrs. Maxwell is rich and knows a lot of powerful people on both sides of the aisle. Again, pure speculation but there are people that want her moved. Do you think she's the very first person to have this happen?

Either way, I'll let things play out but I understand you're worried about what she might say when you were just THIS close to getting Trump after all these years.

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It's extremely important to him for all this Epstein stuff to be terrible for Trump, truth be damned. He looks like a colossal fool with all the Russia!!!! stuff now. He used to very much hyperventilate about that as well. And Covid. And mansplaining. And hands up don't shoot. And insurrection. And Kavanaugh being a rapist. Whatever the Democrat cry of the day is. Civ is a good lapdog.

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packgrad said:

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Imagine being so full of derangement that you think Trump doesn't abide by most laws. Lol. Godalmighty.

It's an illness.

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packgrad said:

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Civilized said:

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packgrad said:

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Imagine being so full of derangement that you think Trump doesn't abide by most laws. Lol. Godalmighty.

It's an illness.

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LOLOL it's positively wild how hard y'all work to normalize and excuse his behavior, up to and including pedophilia, evidently.

Rank him on the index of "Most law- and norm-abiding Presidents in US History" and get back to me.

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Now he's a pedophile and I'm normalizing and excusing it????

lol.

You're a nutjob. Seek help. Mental illness can be treated with therapy.

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