Between the court rulings on integrity of ballots and the raw numbers being calculated by Targetsmart I don't think this vote by mail deal is going the way the democrats planned. I am still concerned but I'm much less concerned than I was a month ago that fraud will be committed at a mass game changing scale. Small scale fraud worries me in lower races of course.
Mail in voting-thoughts?
47,070 Views |
388 Replies |
Last: 3 yr ago by cowboypack02
cowboypack02 said:Entry level jobs are a great thingSupplyChainPack said:
Or maybe it just allows more entry level jobs to be created than when an artificial floor is forced on the labor market.
I think there are two issues that no one seems to want to address.
- People get these entry level jobs and then don't move on. Its an entry level job and it has an entry level salary for a reason. People aren't suppose to stay in those jobs, but they do. Folks in general need to accept that if you are in an entry level position then you are going to get paid entry level wages...that's how it works
- I think illegal immigration has really hurt people who are in lower level jobs such as construction. 20-30 years ago if you didn't go out and get a college degree you could pick up a skill such as plumbing or framing houses and make a pretty decent salary. Unfortunately with the mass migration of illegal immigrants taking these jobs that income source has dried up as an option for a lot of people. I think this is something that absolutely needs to be addressed.
1. Nothing about the job being 'entry level' means that minimum wage can't adjust with inflation. It can, and it should. There would still be the normal market disincentives from staying in that position for longer than necessary.
2. I'm a GC/Civil engineer that builds residential single family and multi-family in the Raleigh market. We vend out all our work. Illegal immigration hasn't even touched the severe and chronic shortage of qualified construction trades locally and nationally. If you are a skilled craftsman - plumbing, mechanical, electrical, framing, etc. and do good work for a market price you have all the work you want. Skilled trade shortage is a crisis in our industry.
Construction/trade work training is grossly undersupplied to young people in America; these jobs are exactly what you describe - a way for someone willing to work hard, for whom college is unappealing or unachievable, to earn a nice wage and support their family, and maybe work their way up to owning their own business. The problem is that American kids don't want those jobs, either because they object to the stigma, how hard the work is, or maybe just because those opportunities aren't being marketed effectively enough to them by parents, community colleges, industry, etc.
We've got to move away from the stigma of being a skilled tradesperson in this country. Beginning in the 60's and 70's 4-year colleges became the aspiration for a generations of parents and their children, to the detriment of our country. Way too many kids (and their parents) waste way too much money on 4-year degrees when they should be out learning a skilled trade or a highly applied science at a community college. Also, many kids for whom college isn't an option due to insufficient family or community resources would be able to find all the work they could handle by learning a skill.
Construction is the ultimate meritocracy; nobody gives a **** where you went to college, who you know, who your daddy is, how much money you have, how you look, etc. The only question is "can you do a good job for a fair price?" If you can, and can communicate that reasonably effectively to prospective clients and GC's that hire you, you're in business (literally).
Absolutely correct Civil.....why more long time young US citizens aren't doing those jobs is surprising to me. Most I see doing them are Hispanics these days. Most are making great money and many are making more than college graduates doing other jobs! I suppose it'll slow down one day soon, just like it has before but they are good occupations for young men and women to do. Former licensed GC myself.Civilized said:cowboypack02 said:Entry level jobs are a great thingSupplyChainPack said:
Or maybe it just allows more entry level jobs to be created than when an artificial floor is forced on the labor market.
I think there are two issues that no one seems to want to address.
- People get these entry level jobs and then don't move on. Its an entry level job and it has an entry level salary for a reason. People aren't suppose to stay in those jobs, but they do. Folks in general need to accept that if you are in an entry level position then you are going to get paid entry level wages...that's how it works
- I think illegal immigration has really hurt people who are in lower level jobs such as construction. 20-30 years ago if you didn't go out and get a college degree you could pick up a skill such as plumbing or framing houses and make a pretty decent salary. Unfortunately with the mass migration of illegal immigrants taking these jobs that income source has dried up as an option for a lot of people. I think this is something that absolutely needs to be addressed.
1. Nothing about the job being 'entry level' means that minimum wage can't adjust with inflation. It can, and it should. There would still be the normal market disincentives from staying in that position for longer than necessary.
2. I'm a GC/Civil engineer that builds residential single family and multi-family in the Raleigh market. We vend out all our work. Illegal immigration hasn't even touched the severe and chronic shortage of qualified construction trades locally and nationally. If you are a skilled craftsman - plumbing, mechanical, electrical, framing, etc. and do good work for a market price you have all the work you want. Skilled trade shortage is a crisis in our industry.
Construction/trade work training is grossly undersupplied to young people in America; these jobs are exactly what you describe - a way for someone willing to work hard, for whom college is unappealing or unachievable, to earn a nice wage and support their family, and maybe work their way up to owning their own business. The problem is that American kids don't want those jobs, either because they object to the stigma, how hard the work is, or maybe just because those opportunities aren't being marketed effectively enough to them by parents, community colleges, industry, etc.
We've got to move away from the stigma of being a skilled tradesperson in this country. Beginning in the 60's and 70's 4-year colleges became the aspiration for a generations of parents and their children, to the detriment of our country. Way too many kids (and their parents) waste way too much money on 4-year degrees when they should be out learning a skilled trade or a highly applied science at a community college. Also, many kids for whom college isn't an option due to insufficient family or community resources would be able to find all the work they could handle by learning a skill.
Construction is the ultimate meritocracy; nobody gives a **** where you went to college, who you know, who your daddy is, how much money you have, how you look, etc. The only question is "can you do a good job for a fair price?" If you can, and can communicate that reasonably effectively to prospective clients and GC's that hire you, you're in business (literally).
Regarding skilled trades:
I think that after WWII, all the people that came back and built America into what it became....all those factory workers, shipyard, etc:
Those folks slaved away at those jobs.
Along the way, they decided that "My kid is not going to do this and have it as hard as I did, he/she is going to college and going to work in an office" and that became the attitude and the way manual labor jobs were viewed: "Oh, you couldn't go to college so you did this"
The colleges realized this trend, and started making up majors to allow more kids to come and graduate. And the "you must go to college" became "you must go to college or you're a failure".
Then we get a generation or two of college grads with underwater basket weaving degrees who end up working at the clothing store in the malls, etc.
I think one reason trade jobs have come back into vogue a bit is the DIY shows on TV. People have watched home flipping, remodeling, car restoration, motorcycle building, etc....and they see all the skills on display and think "Hell, I could do that, and they make pretty decent money".
So I think it's slowly coming around for folks to realize that if you're not afraid of getting your hands dirty a bit, you can go to tech school and learn HVAC, electrical, plumbing, welding, etc....you can work a few years at a big company, and then work for yourself. You can make VERY respectable money, and be your own man once you're on your own.
And then you can really stand tall 10-15 years after high school, when you see your friends who went to college and got psych or sociology degrees and are now managing the local Bojangles and working harder than you are for less money.
That's a generalization, of course, but the point is valid and very realistic, IMO.
One quick anecdotal example: Son of wife's coworker. Graduated HS. Smart enough for college, but not interested. More of a country boy. Goes to Wake Tech for HVAC. Works for large HVAC company. Quickly becomes indispensable. Starts doing side work. Side work becomes overwhelming, so he puts in his notice to go on his own. Big company offered him over $40/hr to stay. "Please don't go", lol.
He's now on his own, is always swamped, and isn't even 30.
Even if he had stayed at the big company, he'd have been pushing $100k with overtime at roughly age 25. How many college grads do that?
I think that after WWII, all the people that came back and built America into what it became....all those factory workers, shipyard, etc:
Those folks slaved away at those jobs.
Along the way, they decided that "My kid is not going to do this and have it as hard as I did, he/she is going to college and going to work in an office" and that became the attitude and the way manual labor jobs were viewed: "Oh, you couldn't go to college so you did this"
The colleges realized this trend, and started making up majors to allow more kids to come and graduate. And the "you must go to college" became "you must go to college or you're a failure".
Then we get a generation or two of college grads with underwater basket weaving degrees who end up working at the clothing store in the malls, etc.
I think one reason trade jobs have come back into vogue a bit is the DIY shows on TV. People have watched home flipping, remodeling, car restoration, motorcycle building, etc....and they see all the skills on display and think "Hell, I could do that, and they make pretty decent money".
So I think it's slowly coming around for folks to realize that if you're not afraid of getting your hands dirty a bit, you can go to tech school and learn HVAC, electrical, plumbing, welding, etc....you can work a few years at a big company, and then work for yourself. You can make VERY respectable money, and be your own man once you're on your own.
And then you can really stand tall 10-15 years after high school, when you see your friends who went to college and got psych or sociology degrees and are now managing the local Bojangles and working harder than you are for less money.
That's a generalization, of course, but the point is valid and very realistic, IMO.
One quick anecdotal example: Son of wife's coworker. Graduated HS. Smart enough for college, but not interested. More of a country boy. Goes to Wake Tech for HVAC. Works for large HVAC company. Quickly becomes indispensable. Starts doing side work. Side work becomes overwhelming, so he puts in his notice to go on his own. Big company offered him over $40/hr to stay. "Please don't go", lol.
He's now on his own, is always swamped, and isn't even 30.
Even if he had stayed at the big company, he'd have been pushing $100k with overtime at roughly age 25. How many college grads do that?
$75-100/hour if you're good and even more is possible. Most of the jobs don't take that much money for the tools either.Pacfanweb said:
Regarding skilled trades:
I think that after WWII, all the people that came back and built America into what it became....all those factory workers, shipyard, etc:
Those folks slaved away at those jobs.
Along the way, they decided that "My kid is not going to do this and have it as hard as I did, he/she is going to college and going to work in an office" and that became the attitude and the way manual labor jobs were viewed: "Oh, you couldn't go to college so you did this"
The colleges realized this trend, and started making up majors to allow more kids to come and graduate. And the "you must go to college" became "you must go to college or you're a failure".
Then we get a generation or two of college grads with underwater basket weaving degrees who end up working at the clothing store in the malls, etc.
I think one reason trade jobs have come back into vogue a bit is the DIY shows on TV. People have watched home flipping, remodeling, car restoration, motorcycle building, etc....and they see all the skills on display and think "Hell, I could do that, and they make pretty decent money".
So I think it's slowly coming around for folks to realize that if you're not afraid of getting your hands dirty a bit, you can go to tech school and learn HVAC, electrical, plumbing, welding, etc....you can work a few years at a big company, and then work for yourself. You can make VERY respectable money, and be your own man once you're on your own.
And then you can really stand tall 10-15 years after high school, when you see your friends who went to college and got psych or sociology degrees and are now managing the local Bojangles and working harder than you are for less money.
That's a generalization, of course, but the point is valid and very realistic, IMO.
One quick anecdotal example: Son of wife's coworker. Graduated HS. Smart enough for college, but not interested. More of a country boy. Goes to Wake Tech for HVAC. Works for large HVAC company. Quickly becomes indispensable. Starts doing side work. Side work becomes overwhelming, so he puts in his notice to go on his own. Big company offered him over $40/hr to stay. "Please don't go", lol.
He's now on his own, is always swamped, and isn't even 30.
Even if he had stayed at the big company, he'd have been pushing $100k with overtime at roughly age 25. How many college grads do that?
A buddy helped me do a job this past spring and I saved money by me working and doing the leg work before and after. I told him I'd pay him $500/day and he was not interested. We traveled 35 minutes each way per day and worked 7 hours/day for 2 days and I paid him $2000 labor inc. about $60 in nails he provided and I saved money.
Again.
"Bins full of ballots" found in Louisville dumpster
https://therightscoop.com/video-bins-full-of-ballots-found-in-louisville-dumpster/
This is how Joe Biden will win an illegitimate election.
"Bins full of ballots" found in Louisville dumpster
https://therightscoop.com/video-bins-full-of-ballots-found-in-louisville-dumpster/
This is how Joe Biden will win an illegitimate election.
This is how you get a civil war....SupplyChainPack said:
Again.
"Bins full of ballots" found in Louisville dumpster
https://therightscoop.com/video-bins-full-of-ballots-found-in-louisville-dumpster/
This is how Joe Biden will win an illegitimate election.
cowboypack02 said:This is how you get a civil war....SupplyChainPack said:
Again.
"Bins full of ballots" found in Louisville dumpster
https://therightscoop.com/video-bins-full-of-ballots-found-in-louisville-dumpster/
This is how Joe Biden will win an illegitimate election.
Perhaps it should.
Postal service FRAUD like this in Pittsburgh is going to RIG this CORRUPT election!
https://www.newsweek.com/postal-worker-mail-qanon-pittsburgh-conspiracy-1539322
Oh wait, the carrier is a QAnon moron. Nevermind...
https://www.newsweek.com/postal-worker-mail-qanon-pittsburgh-conspiracy-1539322
Oh wait, the carrier is a QAnon moron. Nevermind...
SupplyChainPack said:cowboypack02 said:This is how you get a civil war....SupplyChainPack said:
Again.
"Bins full of ballots" found in Louisville dumpster
https://therightscoop.com/video-bins-full-of-ballots-found-in-louisville-dumpster/
This is how Joe Biden will win an illegitimate election.
Perhaps it should.
Kentucky is Trump stronghold. Louisville is bluer than the rest of the state I'm sure, and the only possible hope for Kentucky democrats.
Much more likely this is a Trump supporter mail carrier trying to RIG this CORRUPT election.
He's either trying to limit the Louisville left's ability to vote or trying to stir up discord and lead to unfounded allegations of FRAUD by the left.
Either way, the right is responsible for this HOAX.
The GOP has become the party of projection, greivance, and lunacy/QAnon. Sickening people believe this ***** The Water Cooler has gone to hell, along with most of America.
Y'all means ALL.
PackBacker07 said:
The GOP has become the party of projection, greivance, and lunacy/QAnon. Sickening people believe this ***** The Water Cooler has gone to hell, along with most of America.
Domestic terrorists are SCUM......left wing, right wing or no wing.........SCUM!!!! I don't care who they vote for, they are SCUM OF THE EARTH!
PackBacker07 said:
The GOP has become the party of projection, greivance, and lunacy/QAnon. Sickening people believe this ***** The Water Cooler has gone to hell, along with most of America.
Federal appeals court rules North Carolina can accept ballots up to 9 days late. They have to be postmarked by November 3rd, but can be counted later. This is crap. Either get your ballot in on time, go and vote in person or deliver your absentee ballot.
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/federal-appeals-court-allows-north-carolina-accept-mail-ballots-nine-days
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/federal-appeals-court-allows-north-carolina-accept-mail-ballots-nine-days
Being an N. C. State fan builds great character!
So your not voting for any democrats this election cycle...since...you know....they support all of the folks committing acts of domestic terrorism and trying to burn down cities all over the country....right?ciscopack said:
Domestic terrorists are SCUM......left wing, right wing or no wing.........SCUM!!!! I don't care who they vote for, they are SCUM OF THE EARTH!
I hope this is appealed to the Supreme Court next week after ACB is seated and then we get to correct ruling out of the SC...unlike what we got with Roberts and the PA ruling the other dayDrummerboyWolf said:
Federal appeals court rules North Carolina can accept ballots up to 9 days late. They have to be postmarked by November 3rd, but can be counted later. This is crap. Either get your ballot in on time, go and vote in person or deliver your absentee ballot.
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/federal-appeals-court-allows-north-carolina-accept-mail-ballots-nine-days
John Roberts should be impeached.cowboypack02 said:I hope this is appealed to the Supreme Court next week after ACB is seated and then we get to correct ruling out of the SC...unlike what we got with Roberts and the PA ruling the other dayDrummerboyWolf said:
Federal appeals court rules North Carolina can accept ballots up to 9 days late. They have to be postmarked by November 3rd, but can be counted later. This is crap. Either get your ballot in on time, go and vote in person or deliver your absentee ballot.
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/federal-appeals-court-allows-north-carolina-accept-mail-ballots-nine-days
Being an N. C. State fan builds great character!
Unfortunately it won't ever happen because most of the republicans that would impeach Roberts are just as liberal as the politicians that are running congress right nowDrummerboyWolf said:John Roberts should be impeached.cowboypack02 said:I hope this is appealed to the Supreme Court next week after ACB is seated and then we get to correct ruling out of the SC...unlike what we got with Roberts and the PA ruling the other dayDrummerboyWolf said:
Federal appeals court rules North Carolina can accept ballots up to 9 days late. They have to be postmarked by November 3rd, but can be counted later. This is crap. Either get your ballot in on time, go and vote in person or deliver your absentee ballot.
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/federal-appeals-court-allows-north-carolina-accept-mail-ballots-nine-days
Yes I know Another Supreme Court mistake from the Bush family.cowboypack02 said:Unfortunately it won't ever happen because most of the republicans that would impeach Roberts are just as liberal as the politicians that are running congress right nowDrummerboyWolf said:John Roberts should be impeached.cowboypack02 said:I hope this is appealed to the Supreme Court next week after ACB is seated and then we get to correct ruling out of the SC...unlike what we got with Roberts and the PA ruling the other dayDrummerboyWolf said:
Federal appeals court rules North Carolina can accept ballots up to 9 days late. They have to be postmarked by November 3rd, but can be counted later. This is crap. Either get your ballot in on time, go and vote in person or deliver your absentee ballot.
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/federal-appeals-court-allows-north-carolina-accept-mail-ballots-nine-days
Being an N. C. State fan builds great character!
John Roberts was a collosal mistake. If it was actually a mistake.
But it *appears* he is about to be marginalized 6 before the day is over. I wonder if he will try to slide in one last sucker punch today while he still can?
But it *appears* he is about to be marginalized 6 before the day is over. I wonder if he will try to slide in one last sucker punch today while he still can?
"Remember Democrats' Hysteria Over Mail 'Slowdowns?' Guess What Happened..."
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/rick-moran/2020/10/24/remember-democrats-hysteria-over-mail-slowdowns-guess-what-happened-n1084336
NC BOE just got permission to run wild.
And you can bet they will.
The question is - has the General Assembly just been snoozing during all of this?
And you can bet they will.
The question is - has the General Assembly just been snoozing during all of this?
SupplyChainPack said:
NC BOE just got permission to mitigate voter suppression.
And you can bet they will.
The question is - has the General Assembly just been snoozing during all of this?
FTFY.
Anyone who is voting via mail should have already done so way before now!
3 states only do vote by mail and have for years; 6 others joined them this year (vote by mail only) and 35 others allow vote by mail inc. NC....44 states by my count. I think I'd have to take my ballot to drop it off like my 92 year old uncle did. I voted last Tuesday and there were about 5 others voting in the building with about 50 voting tables....out in no time. I see people waiting in line for 4 hours to vote. You'd think that would be made easier?
3 states only do vote by mail and have for years; 6 others joined them this year (vote by mail only) and 35 others allow vote by mail inc. NC....44 states by my count. I think I'd have to take my ballot to drop it off like my 92 year old uncle did. I voted last Tuesday and there were about 5 others voting in the building with about 50 voting tables....out in no time. I see people waiting in line for 4 hours to vote. You'd think that would be made easier?
Civilized said:SupplyChainPack said:
NC BOE just got permission to mitigate voter suppression.
And you can bet they will.
The question is - has the General Assembly just been snoozing during all of this?
FTFY.
Civilized....how do you make the determination that it's voter suppression that you voter ballot has to be in by election day? Seems to me that there has to be a deadline at some point, and it should be election day.
The Supreme Court will allow absentee ballots in North Carolina to be received and counted up to 9 days after Election Day, in a win for Democrats. https://t.co/W4D9tFAwBM
cowboypack02 said:Civilized said:SupplyChainPack said:
NC BOE just got permission to mitigate voter suppression.
And you can bet they will.
The question is - has the General Assembly just been snoozing during all of this?
FTFY.
Civilized....how do you make the determination that it's voter suppression that you voter ballot has to be in by election day? Seems to me that there has to be a deadline at some point, and it should be election day.
Right, it does have to be in by some point.
There are two rational deadlines in this circumstance.
One is to require that the mail-in ballots be received by Election Day.
The other is that mail-ins be postmarked by Election Day, with some reasonable cutoff after Election Day to allow for mail receipt for those ballots that were mailed before Election Day.
Why do Republicans champion the option that prevents more Americans from having their vote counted?
There's nothing sacrosanct about receiving the ballot by election day; Boards of Election don't certify the vote until days/weeks after the election and electors don't meet until December 14.
Receiving and counting more American votes is much more important than compelling TV on election night.
Lets look at it like your paying a bill....Civilized said:cowboypack02 said:Civilized said:SupplyChainPack said:
NC BOE just got permission to mitigate voter suppression.
And you can bet they will.
The question is - has the General Assembly just been snoozing during all of this?
FTFY.
Civilized....how do you make the determination that it's voter suppression that you voter ballot has to be in by election day? Seems to me that there has to be a deadline at some point, and it should be election day.
Right, it does have to be in by some point.
There are two rational deadlines in this circumstance.
One is to require that the mail-in ballots be received by Election Day.
The other is that mail-ins be postmarked by Election Day, with some reasonable cutoff after Election Day to allow for mail receipt for those ballots that were mailed before Election Day.
Why do Republicans champion the option that prevents more Americans from having their vote counted?
There's nothing sacrosanct about receiving the ballot by election day; Boards of Election don't certify the vote until days/weeks after the election and electors don't meet until December 14.
Receiving and counting more American votes is much more important than compelling TV on election night.
Your electric bill is due on 11/3. It doesn't matter how it gets there, its just suppose to get there by 11/3. If its not your going to get penalized for it. You could of mailed in your bill or dropped it off...
If you want to be responsible you pay it on time. If not then you face the consequences of that
Voting is the same way....it needs to be there by the deadline. Why should people who want to mail in their ballots be given a special set of circumstances? How is that fair to people who are making an effort to go to the polls?
You could of voted early weeks before the election started...but you chose not to..
You could of requested a mail in ballot weeks and weeks in advance and had plenty of time to mail it in before election day....but you chose not to...
You could of voted on election day....but you chose not to....
That doesn't sound to me like voter suppression at all....it seems to me that we are making efforts to help people because they don't want to take responsibility for their own actions and have a ballot returned on time.
All of the votes should be counted and the results should be announced on the same day. I think it invites fraud to not do this. There are news stories every day about mail in ballots being lost by the box full....you don't think that people in the mail service, who has endorsed a particular candidate by the way, won't chunk a bunch of backdated postmarks on ballots if they see where the election is?
What a joke.Wolfer79 said:
The Supreme Court will allow absentee ballots in North Carolina to be received and counted up to 9 days after Election Day, in a win for Democrats. https://t.co/W4D9tFAwBM
This should be for the state legislatures to decide....not some court somewhere...
cowboypack02 said:
Lets look at it like your paying a bill....
Your electric bill is due on 11/3. It doesn't matter how it gets there, its just suppose to get there by 11/3. If its not your going to get penalized for it. You could of mailed in your bill or dropped it off...
If you want to be responsible you pay it on time. If not then you face the consequences of that
Voting is the same way....it needs to be there by the deadline. Why should people who want to mail in their ballots be given a special set of circumstances? How is that fair to people who are making an effort to go to the polls?
You could of voted early weeks before the election started...but you chose not to..
You could of requested a mail in ballot weeks and weeks in advance and had plenty of time to mail it in before election day....but you chose not to...
You could of voted on election day....but you chose not to....
That doesn't sound to me like voter suppression at all....it seems to me that we are making efforts to help people because they don't want to take responsibility for their own actions and have a ballot returned on time.
All of the votes should be counted and the results should be announced on the same day. I think it invites fraud to not do this. There are news stories every day about mail in ballots being lost by the box full....you don't think that people in the mail service, who has endorsed a particular candidate by the way, won't chunk a bunch of backdated postmarks on ballots if they see where the election is?
Rent is due on the first, but not late until the 5th.
Is that 'unfair' to people who pay by the first? What tenants or landlords walk around thinking about it that way? It's just a reasonable grace period to allow for illness, slow mail, or any number of other small delays that happen in life.
As it stands right now, even in states that require ballots to arrive by Election Day, those votes often don't get counted until a few days later.
Just because TV networks often announce elections on election night doesn't mean that all the votes have actually been counted in the states they are calling.
It's much more important to count votes comprehensively than it is to count votes quickly. No one is arguing for counting votes that arrive two months later.
Personally, I think the smartest thing to do is calculate how long it takes a normal letter (in N.C.) to reach its destination. From Murphy to the BOE... from Hatteras to the BOE... etc.
Say, three days. (generous, maybe, but the USPS has definitely been manpower-to-workload stressed during Covid)
So the ballot needs to arrive by Tuesday, which means (excluding Sunday) that would mean a letter should be postmarked by Friday, 10/30 to count.
I don't think that would be too much to ask, and it would be fair to all.
But "smartest" and "fair" are hardly words that are often used in politics -- by either side.
Say, three days. (generous, maybe, but the USPS has definitely been manpower-to-workload stressed during Covid)
So the ballot needs to arrive by Tuesday, which means (excluding Sunday) that would mean a letter should be postmarked by Friday, 10/30 to count.
I don't think that would be too much to ask, and it would be fair to all.
But "smartest" and "fair" are hardly words that are often used in politics -- by either side.
Your credit card bill is due on the 28th.....go ahead and pay it on the 29th if you want to...you'll have a fine for being lateCivilized said:cowboypack02 said:
Lets look at it like your paying a bill....
Your electric bill is due on 11/3. It doesn't matter how it gets there, its just suppose to get there by 11/3. If its not your going to get penalized for it. You could of mailed in your bill or dropped it off...
If you want to be responsible you pay it on time. If not then you face the consequences of that
Voting is the same way....it needs to be there by the deadline. Why should people who want to mail in their ballots be given a special set of circumstances? How is that fair to people who are making an effort to go to the polls?
You could of voted early weeks before the election started...but you chose not to..
You could of requested a mail in ballot weeks and weeks in advance and had plenty of time to mail it in before election day....but you chose not to...
You could of voted on election day....but you chose not to....
That doesn't sound to me like voter suppression at all....it seems to me that we are making efforts to help people because they don't want to take responsibility for their own actions and have a ballot returned on time.
All of the votes should be counted and the results should be announced on the same day. I think it invites fraud to not do this. There are news stories every day about mail in ballots being lost by the box full....you don't think that people in the mail service, who has endorsed a particular candidate by the way, won't chunk a bunch of backdated postmarks on ballots if they see where the election is?
Rent is due on the first, but not late until the 5th.
Is that 'unfair' to people who pay by the first? What tenants or landlords walk around thinking about it that way? It's just a reasonable grace period to allow for illness, slow mail, or any number of other small delays that happen in life.
As it stands right now, even in states that require ballots to arrive by Election Day, those votes often don't get counted until a few days later.
Just because TV networks often announce elections on election night doesn't mean that all the votes have actually been counted in the states they are calling.
It's much more important to count votes comprehensively than it is to count votes quickly. No one is arguing for counting votes that arrive two months later.
AlleyPack said:
Personally, I think the smartest thing to do is calculate how long it takes a normal letter (in N.C.) to reach its destination. From Murphy to the BOE... from Hatteras to the BOE... etc.
Say, three days. (generous, maybe, but the USPS has definitely been manpower-to-workload stressed during Covid)
So the ballot needs to arrive by Tuesday, which means (excluding Sunday) that would mean a letter should be postmarked by Friday, 10/30 to count.
I don't think that would be too much to ask, and it would be fair to all.
But "smartest" and "fair" are hardly words that are often used in politics -- by either side.
Why does my neighbor's ballot arrival timing have anything to do with being 'fair' to me?
I don't care when my neighbor's ballot arrives.
Voters aren't competing with each other. We're not running a sack race during field day.
It's an administrative process and needs to be as accommodating as reasonably possible.
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