pineknollshoresking said:
Oh... the UK government announced that 60% of COVID hospitalizations have been vaccinated. Then they restated their number to 40% have been vaccinated! Either number is big number!!!
Let's give the vaccine a big kudos for working so effectively.
pineknollshoresking said:
Oh... the UK government announced that 60% of COVID hospitalizations have been vaccinated. Then they restated their number to 40% have been vaccinated! Either number is big number!!!
Let's give the vaccine a big kudos for working so effectively.
Wayland said:I had deleted my earlier joking comment about the AAP having Randi Weingarten on speed dial, but since I saw this... I guess I wasn't far off....packgrad said:Civilized said:
C'mon, Chem, it's been proven on here over the last several months that the AAP, APA, and other seemingly apolitical medical establishments are actually run by partisan hacks serving as the right hand of Marx himself.
Try to keep up.
Lol. They're as apolitical as you are independent.AAP child-masking directive has zero citations to support its masking recommendations, but it does have a citation for their support to send *even more* federal $$$ to all schools, even schools that are closed: it's a teachers union lobbying document.https://t.co/1OBafu00MP pic.twitter.com/DTmkZvsJZd
— Phil Kerpen (@kerpen) July 19, 2021
LOL. I wondered if he actually typed that tripe with a straight face...pineknollshoresking said:That is some funny stuff, Civ...Civilized said:
Dow drops more than 700 points on Monday, heads for worst decline of 2021
Public health implications aside, continued economic impacts as long as we have tens of millions of eligible adults unvaccinated are a good reason to try to motivate unvaxxed Americans to get vaxxed.
Whether or not they should be, public health, and public health care, are unfortunately fraught and politically charged but there should be no more bipartisan rallying cry than economic health and avoiding economic growth stagnation due to groundhog day COVID spikes.
Vaccination and ultimately herd immunity is our way off the COVID economic roller coaster.
Good Lord, civ...Civilized said:pineknollshoresking said:
Oh... the UK government announced that 60% of COVID hospitalizations have been vaccinated. Then they restated their number to 40% have been vaccinated! Either number is big number!!!
Let's give the vaccine a big kudos for working so effectively.
Agree, we should!
Even if you assume the full 40% have been double jabbed (which is not clear based on the wording of their health minister's statement), that's clear evidence of the vaccine's significant effectiveness, not the other way around.
The key detail you're leaving out is that a little under 90% of the UK has been fully vaccinated. That's extremely important.
It means that the 10% of the UK that is unvaxxed is generating 60% of the hospitalizations, whereas the vaccinated ~90% is generating only 40% of the hospitalizations.
In very rough numbers therefore, you are around 12x - 15x likelier to be hospitalized from COVID in the UK if you are unvaxxed versus vaccinated. Obviously this is due to some combination of you being both less likely to catch the disease, and it also being less likely that the disease becomes severe if you are vaxxed.
Remember, in a hypothetical where 100% of the population has been vaccinated, 100% of the hospitalizations will be vaccinated patients. There will just be very, very few of them, compared to the scenario where 100% of the population was unvaccinated.
Actually, what is being proven is Federalism works!!! Folks, our form of government has sovereign states with a few powers granted to a federal government!!! Remember, there wouldn't be federal government if the states didn't create it!!!!!Packchem91 said:Wayland said:I had deleted my earlier joking comment about the AAP having Randi Weingarten on speed dial, but since I saw this... I guess I wasn't far off....packgrad said:Civilized said:
C'mon, Chem, it's been proven on here over the last several months that the AAP, APA, and other seemingly apolitical medical establishments are actually run by partisan hacks serving as the right hand of Marx himself.
Try to keep up.
Lol. They're as apolitical as you are independent.AAP child-masking directive has zero citations to support its masking recommendations, but it does have a citation for their support to send *even more* federal $$$ to all schools, even schools that are closed: it's a teachers union lobbying document.https://t.co/1OBafu00MP pic.twitter.com/DTmkZvsJZd
— Phil Kerpen (@kerpen) July 19, 2021
Wayland, Davie, PG for your links to other commentary. Like most things Covid related (and life), very little is black and white, a whole lot of gray.
Wayland's screenshot, taken in a vacuum certainly gives pause. DW and PG's articles seem to argue for the evidence of little lift from having kid wear masks...which seems reasonable.
Maybe moreso, what Davie's tweet proves is the difficult of any uniform policy across a country as big, diverse, and with different health factors as ours. As one of the tweets indicated....kids in VT shouldn't have to live by teh same stricter measures as some kid in Houston or LA.
I take away all these "national" groups should provide guidance, with still local input on how (or if) it gets implemented to that degree?
Also not sure you'd want to go. They've turned into a real fascist police state up there.RunsWithWolves26 said:
Canada announced that they will open their border to fully vaccinated US citizens August 9th. You will still need a molecular or PCR test within 72 hours of entry showing you are negative though. Not sure if that fits into the category of science or not.
Packchem91 said:Wayland said:I had deleted my earlier joking comment about the AAP having Randi Weingarten on speed dial, but since I saw this... I guess I wasn't far off....packgrad said:Civilized said:
C'mon, Chem, it's been proven on here over the last several months that the AAP, APA, and other seemingly apolitical medical establishments are actually run by partisan hacks serving as the right hand of Marx himself.
Try to keep up.
Lol. They're as apolitical as you are independent.AAP child-masking directive has zero citations to support its masking recommendations, but it does have a citation for their support to send *even more* federal $$$ to all schools, even schools that are closed: it's a teachers union lobbying document.https://t.co/1OBafu00MP pic.twitter.com/DTmkZvsJZd
— Phil Kerpen (@kerpen) July 19, 2021
Wayland, Davie, PG for your links to other commentary. Like most things Covid related (and life), very little is black and white, a whole lot of gray.
Wayland's screenshot, taken in a vacuum certainly gives pause. DW and PG's articles seem to argue for the evidence of little lift from having kid wear masks...which seems reasonable.
Maybe moreso, what Davie's tweet proves is the difficult of any uniform policy across a country as big, diverse, and with different health factors as ours. As one of the tweets indicated....kids in VT shouldn't have to live by teh same stricter measures as some kid in Houston or LA.
I take away all these "national" groups should provide guidance, with still local input on how (or if) it gets implemented to that degree?
Says the guy who is vaccinated, just complains about having to be vaccinated, lol.TheStorm said:
And I see that Chem must have gotten bored with his recent run of supporting the pro side of common sense and has drifted back into taking up the contrarian stance again... with zero numbers to back up that stance I might add.
Just when I was really starting to warm up to his posts... Oh, well!
Wouldn't that be nice?Packchem91 said:Says the guy who is vaccinated, just complains about having to be vaccinated, lol.TheStorm said:
And I see that Chem must have gotten bored with his recent run of supporting the pro side of common sense and has drifted back into taking up the contrarian stance again... with zero numbers to back up that stance I might add.
Just when I was really starting to warm up to his posts... Oh, well!
Look, I think it was Mormad who said this a couple of weeks ago....but anyone who thinks in absolutes about Covid is part of the problem (and you're continually rallying behind the return of just such a guy).
I asked for why the AAP would be political rather than using its best medical guidance to advocate for its advocacy....and several folks provided compelling arguments. I'm not sure...but I think, thats the way this board thing is supposed to work.
Packchem91, where is the gray in this? Folks provided links to several independent medical professionals challenging this latest "national" group guidance. We have hard evidence that at least one national group (CDC) provided pre-release reviews of their guidance to teachers union leadership and subsequently revised their positions to match the preferences of union leadership. Fauci has waffled all over the place regarding masks. We have had the POTUS shaming governors of states that chose to defy mask and lockdown mandates. We have hard evidence of the weaponizing of "science" for political gain. Do you remain confident that political influence is NOT impacting these "national" guidance statements?Packchem91 said:Wayland said:
I had deleted my earlier joking comment about the AAP having Randi Weingarten on speed dial, but since I saw this... I guess I wasn't far off....AAP child-masking directive has zero citations to support its masking recommendations, but it does have a citation for their support to send *even more* federal $$$ to all schools, even schools that are closed: it's a teachers union lobbying document.https://t.co/1OBafu00MP pic.twitter.com/DTmkZvsJZd
— Phil Kerpen (@kerpen) July 19, 2021
Wayland, Davie, PG for your links to other commentary. Like most things Covid related (and life), very little is black and white, a whole lot of gray.
Wayland's screenshot, taken in a vacuum certainly gives pause. DW and PG's articles seem to argue for the evidence of little lift from having kid wear masks...which seems reasonable.
Maybe moreso, what Davie's tweet proves is the difficult of any uniform policy across a country as big, diverse, and with different health factors as ours. As one of the tweets indicated....kids in VT shouldn't have to live by teh same stricter measures as some kid in Houston or LA.
I take away all these "national" groups should provide guidance, with still local input on how (or if) it gets implemented to that degree?
Gray? All of covid response is gray, to an extent. No one (smart people, not us) have been completely right on this. We thought vaccines would be an answer, and they are, but they are not fail proof. Countries thought they were significantly past Covid, and then they are not. Everyone is assuming we'll all be at FB games this fall, but who knows if cases start increasing again....Gray.PackFansXL said:Packchem91, where is the gray in this? Folks provided links to several independent medical professionals challenging this latest "national" group guidance. We have hard evidence that at least one national group (CDC) provided pre-release reviews of their guidance to teachers union leadership and subsequently revised their positions to match the preferences of union leadership. Fauci has waffled all over the place regarding masks. We have had the POTUS shaming governors of states that chose to defy mask and lockdown mandates. We have hard evidence of the weaponizing of "science" for political gain. Do you remain confident that political influence is NOT impacting these "national" guidance statements?Packchem91 said:Wayland said:
I had deleted my earlier joking comment about the AAP having Randi Weingarten on speed dial, but since I saw this... I guess I wasn't far off....AAP child-masking directive has zero citations to support its masking recommendations, but it does have a citation for their support to send *even more* federal $$$ to all schools, even schools that are closed: it's a teachers union lobbying document.https://t.co/1OBafu00MP pic.twitter.com/DTmkZvsJZd
— Phil Kerpen (@kerpen) July 19, 2021
Wayland, Davie, PG for your links to other commentary. Like most things Covid related (and life), very little is black and white, a whole lot of gray.
Wayland's screenshot, taken in a vacuum certainly gives pause. DW and PG's articles seem to argue for the evidence of little lift from having kid wear masks...which seems reasonable.
Maybe moreso, what Davie's tweet proves is the difficult of any uniform policy across a country as big, diverse, and with different health factors as ours. As one of the tweets indicated....kids in VT shouldn't have to live by teh same stricter measures as some kid in Houston or LA.
I take away all these "national" groups should provide guidance, with still local input on how (or if) it gets implemented to that degree?
and that post was completely gray!Packchem91 said:Gray? All of covid response is gray, to an extent. No one (smart people, not us) have been completely right on this. We thought vaccines would be an answer, and they are, but they are not fail proof. Countries thought they were significantly past Covid, and then they are not. Everyone is assuming we'll all be at FB games this fall, but who knows if cases start increasing again....Gray.PackFansXL said:Packchem91, where is the gray in this? Folks provided links to several independent medical professionals challenging this latest "national" group guidance. We have hard evidence that at least one national group (CDC) provided pre-release reviews of their guidance to teachers union leadership and subsequently revised their positions to match the preferences of union leadership. Fauci has waffled all over the place regarding masks. We have had the POTUS shaming governors of states that chose to defy mask and lockdown mandates. We have hard evidence of the weaponizing of "science" for political gain. Do you remain confident that political influence is NOT impacting these "national" guidance statements?Packchem91 said:Wayland said:
I had deleted my earlier joking comment about the AAP having Randi Weingarten on speed dial, but since I saw this... I guess I wasn't far off....AAP child-masking directive has zero citations to support its masking recommendations, but it does have a citation for their support to send *even more* federal $$$ to all schools, even schools that are closed: it's a teachers union lobbying document.https://t.co/1OBafu00MP pic.twitter.com/DTmkZvsJZd
— Phil Kerpen (@kerpen) July 19, 2021
Wayland, Davie, PG for your links to other commentary. Like most things Covid related (and life), very little is black and white, a whole lot of gray.
Wayland's screenshot, taken in a vacuum certainly gives pause. DW and PG's articles seem to argue for the evidence of little lift from having kid wear masks...which seems reasonable.
Maybe moreso, what Davie's tweet proves is the difficult of any uniform policy across a country as big, diverse, and with different health factors as ours. As one of the tweets indicated....kids in VT shouldn't have to live by teh same stricter measures as some kid in Houston or LA.
I take away all these "national" groups should provide guidance, with still local input on how (or if) it gets implemented to that degree?
This is our first pandemic conducted in the SM era. SM makes us all experts, and makes us all want answers yesterday. We're dealing with a novel virus. Novel is clearly correct. I bet the doctors / scientists who developed vaccines for polio are thankful that they didn't do so in the SM era.
As for political....to put it simply...everything about Covid is political. It was that way with Trump, it is that way with Biden, and it is that way with us, despite everyone claiming differently. That said, I'm disappointed if orgs like the AAP, which should be only after the best for the people it serves directly, are being impacted by political leanings of other organizations. A medical org seems to be the one agency that should tell things exactly like they are, regardless of whether we like it or not.
This isn't about a virus. What it's really about is dramatically changing our world -- to bring in "The Great Reset" aka worldwide socialism & tyranny...aka the "New World Order" agenda. The "pandemic" is a staged and fabricated psyop, used as the excuse to bring in this agenda. They want mandatory vaccines, vaccine passports (setting the precedent for a "mark of the Beast" type system in the future, where you can't buy or sell without it), collapse the economy on purpose to kill small businesses and the middle class and increase the power of big corporations, vastly increase government debt to cause massive inflation and eventually currencies to collapse (and then bring in a new cashless digital currencies), massive government power grabs and setting the precedent for government being able to forcibly quarantine people at internment camps, etc.ncsualum05 said:
I haven't been on this thread in a while but why are we not moving on with life yet? Why are our lords still f'ing up the country, the world, the supply chain, the economy, etc.? Will there ever be a normal again?
Hey you know you can step outside and catch a virus. Anything from a cold to something awful and rare. This virus was a threat. It's endemic now. Here to stay. Thanks China and we look forward to SARS 3.0. However in the meantime if people haven't been vaccinated by now it's their choice. If you have then great you have a layer of protection. Move on with life otherwise it's not going to be worth living.
First of all, I never HAD to be vaccinated... I made a personal choice to be vaccinated. And I did it far more for other's safety rather than my own. You've never - not once - heard me complain about getting or being vaccinated. So let's get that straight right out of the gate.Packchem91 said:Says the guy who is vaccinated, just complains about having to be vaccinated, lol.TheStorm said:
And I see that Chem must have gotten bored with his recent run of supporting the pro side of common sense and has drifted back into taking up the contrarian stance again... with zero numbers to back up that stance I might add.
Just when I was really starting to warm up to his posts... Oh, well!
Look, I think it was Mormad who said this a couple of weeks ago....but anyone who thinks in absolutes about Covid is part of the problem (and you're continually rallying behind the return of just such a guy).
I asked for why the AAP would be political rather than using its best medical guidance to advocate for its advocacy....and several folks provided compelling arguments. I'm not sure...but I think, thats the way this board thing is supposed to work.
Relieved to see a mortality rate of zero among children from COVID without a pre-existing medical condition from the research team at Johns Hopkins. May inform school policies. Good work. https://t.co/kMHwLbL9jU
— Monica Gandhi MD, MPH (@MonicaGandhi9) July 20, 2021
GuerrillaPack said:This isn't about a virus. What it's really about is dramatically changing our world -- to bring in "The Great Reset" aka worldwide socialism & tyranny...aka the "New World Order" agenda. The "pandemic" is a staged and fabricated psyop, used as the excuse to bring in this agenda. They want mandatory vaccines, vaccine passports (setting the precedent for a "mark of the Beast" type system in the future, where you can't buy or sell without it), collapse the economy on purpose to kill small businesses and the middle class and increase the power of big corporations, vastly increase government debt to cause massive inflation and eventually currencies to collapse (and then bring in a new cashless digital currencies), massive government power grabs and setting the precedent for government being able to forcibly quarantine people at internment camps, etc.ncsualum05 said:
I haven't been on this thread in a while but why are we not moving on with life yet? Why are our lords still f'ing up the country, the world, the supply chain, the economy, etc.? Will there ever be a normal again?
Hey you know you can step outside and catch a virus. Anything from a cold to something awful and rare. This virus was a threat. It's endemic now. Here to stay. Thanks China and we look forward to SARS 3.0. However in the meantime if people haven't been vaccinated by now it's their choice. If you have then great you have a layer of protection. Move on with life otherwise it's not going to be worth living.
First, the comment about your getting the shot was intended to be a joke, but I realize its difficult to make that clear sometimes.TheStorm said:First of all, I never HAD to be vaccinated... I made a personal choice to be vaccinated. And I did it far more for other's safety rather than my own. You've never - not once - heard me complain about getting or being vaccinated. So let's get that straight right out of the gate.Packchem91 said:Says the guy who is vaccinated, just complains about having to be vaccinated, lol.TheStorm said:
And I see that Chem must have gotten bored with his recent run of supporting the pro side of common sense and has drifted back into taking up the contrarian stance again... with zero numbers to back up that stance I might add.
Just when I was really starting to warm up to his posts... Oh, well!
Look, I think it was Mormad who said this a couple of weeks ago....but anyone who thinks in absolutes about Covid is part of the problem (and you're continually rallying behind the return of just such a guy).
I asked for why the AAP would be political rather than using its best medical guidance to advocate for its advocacy....and several folks provided compelling arguments. I'm not sure...but I think, thats the way this board thing is supposed to work.
I was around people on a daily basis for the entirety of the first 12-14 months of the pandemic and would have been exposed to it at one time or another 100%... I wasn't going to catch it (and I don't ever catch the flu either for that matter).
Why didn't you ask for a link to the detailed studies that the AAP cited for their recommendation? Why didn't you ask for the numbers of percentage positives, hospitalizations and deaths for "young children" even maybe?
Someone has asked the AAP to take this stance. That's not even debatable (based on NO SUPPORTING DATA).
YOUR question should be WHO? And then WHY?
Psssst. Think about the Facebook information that came out earlier this week (hell, maybe it was last week at this point).
I'll hang up and listen.
As I just psoted to Stormy, I'll take the L on the AAP support.packgrad said:
Yeah. Why ask for the data they used to make this advisory?. Rather he'd just like to label me as a conspiracy theorist with the "not everybody is out to get you."
Also the it's still gray nonsense is just arguing for the sake of arguing. They put out a political advisory not based on science. It's black and white. Because one day in the future there could possibly be a variant that makes it so 2 year olds and older need to wear masks in school doesn't make the statement they just made completely not based on science.
Thank you Dr Rand Paul, for exposing the Fascist Gnome, MD…pic.twitter.com/tUc9gjLcit
— Steve Cortes (@CortesSteve) July 20, 2021
Life expectancy in the United States fell by a year and a half in 2020 primarily due to increases in death due to the Covid-19 pandemic, according to early data released by the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention https://t.co/uSeHRDPALj
— CNN Breaking News (@cnnbrk) July 21, 2021
GuerrillaPack said:
I can't find the post, but a few days ago people were discussing the fact that ~40% of the "delta cases" in the UK are among vaccinated people. I recall that one person was trying to spin that fact as "good for the vaccines" by claiming that the UK had some "really high" vaccination rate among their population - with the argument along the lines of "if almost everyone is vaccinated, then of course you might have 40% of cases among vaccinated people, but this really small portion of the population who are not vaccinated are making up 60% if the cases, making you 12 times more likely to get the virus if you are not vaccinated". Well, that's actually not the case at all. I looked up the number, and only 54% of the UK population are fully vaccinated. While that's among the highest rate of any nation in the world, it's not like the "vast majority" of the population are jabbed, as this person was arguing.
I don't buy for one second the claim right now that "~98%" of current covid cases in the US are among the unvaccinated. They are cooking the books with the "data" to push their pro-vaccine agenda.
Davie -- have you seen any literature about whether the vaccine impacts the rising incidences of Type 1 and/or 2 Diabetes in children that catch COVID19?Daviewolf83 said:
More on vaccination of people under the age of 18. In the UK, the Joint Commission on Vaccination and Immunization has come out with their position and it is:
"The health benefits in this population are small, and the benefits to the wider pop. are highly uncertain. At this time, JCVI is of the view that the health benefits of universal vaccination in children and young people below the age of 18 do not outweigh the potential risks."
I doubt this gets much if any mention in the mainstream media in the US.
Read the full story here:
Independent Report - JCVI statement on Covid-19 vaccination of children and of children and young people aged 12 to 17 years
I'm fine with this, but my question is how will schools / policy makers move from shutting everything down for 2 weeks at a time when there is a case of COVID in a classroom, vs. treating it like a cold / flu?Daviewolf83 said:
More on vaccination of people under the age of 18. In the UK, the Joint Commission on Vaccination and Immunization has come out with their position and it is:
"The health benefits in this population are small, and the benefits to the wider pop. are highly uncertain. At this time, JCVI is of the view that the health benefits of universal vaccination in children and young people below the age of 18 do not outweigh the potential risks."
I doubt this gets much if any mention in the mainstream media in the US.
Read the full story here:
Independent Report - JCVI statement on Covid-19 vaccination of children and of children and young people aged 12 to 17 years
bsorry11 said:Davie -- have you seen any literature about whether the vaccine impacts the rising incidences of Type 1 and/or 2 Diabetes in children that catch COVID19?Daviewolf83 said:
More on vaccination of people under the age of 18. In the UK, the Joint Commission on Vaccination and Immunization has come out with their position and it is:
"The health benefits in this population are small, and the benefits to the wider pop. are highly uncertain. At this time, JCVI is of the view that the health benefits of universal vaccination in children and young people below the age of 18 do not outweigh the potential risks."
I doubt this gets much if any mention in the mainstream media in the US.
Read the full story here:
Independent Report - JCVI statement on Covid-19 vaccination of children and of children and young people aged 12 to 17 years
As it relates specifically to children, I do not recall seeing any direct studies or literature on this point. As it relates to adults with Type 1 and Type 2 Diabetes, there is some compelling evidence that those people have had more adverse effects from the virus. I do recall there was some discussion in one paper I read months ago as to the mechanisms as to why this is could be the case (people with diabetes having disproportionate impact from the virus), but can not remember what those were off the top of my head. I've been up since 2am, managing a major IT release I have been leading for the past 9 months, so my head is a little jumbled at the moment.bsorry11 said:Davie -- have you seen any literature about whether the vaccine impacts the rising incidences of Type 1 and/or 2 Diabetes in children that catch COVID19?Daviewolf83 said:
More on vaccination of people under the age of 18. In the UK, the Joint Commission on Vaccination and Immunization has come out with their position and it is:
"The health benefits in this population are small, and the benefits to the wider pop. are highly uncertain. At this time, JCVI is of the view that the health benefits of universal vaccination in children and young people below the age of 18 do not outweigh the potential risks."
I doubt this gets much if any mention in the mainstream media in the US.
Read the full story here:
Independent Report - JCVI statement on Covid-19 vaccination of children and of children and young people aged 12 to 17 years
