Steve Videtich said:

---

caryking said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

Okay, let me ask you this. If they find nothing and he isn't charged with anything, what merits were they working on? Again, you don't know that they have classified or declassified documents. You don't! You're basing everything off of what the media is telling you they found in an investigation that is supposed to be highly sensitive with no leaks.

So our merits so far of the FBI are, we've asked you to turn over documents we think you have. The first lot didn't have what we think you have, so we'll ask again. The second lot didn't have what we think you have, so we'll ask again.

Now we're still not getting what we want, so we're going to raid and search your home. So far that doesn't seem to have worked either. Now they're looking at obstruction charges for supposedly moving items from a folder to his desk. If you have him on a legit crime, why are they going for obstruction?

I have said that if the man did something wrong he should pay for it. If he didn't stop trying to create it. As Chem so democratically put it, it's another black mark against him. You can paint it any color you want, this entire exercise is meant to keep Trump from getting into the WH ever again.

As for my comparisons between he and HRC. I would hope that every American would expect fair and equal treatment under the law. If any of you were in Trump's shoes, you would be doing exactly what he's doing and I would be saying the exact same thing for you. Tell me that way of thinking is wrong.

---

How many times do I have to say this?

Nobody gives a DAMN about these documents!!!

---

Chem keeps arguing with you about fair treatment by the police of everyday people. But, he's okay with unfair treatment that the FBI is currently carrying out. And don't come at me Chem, because it's the same damn thing! Profiling!

ETA: I'm done for today so can go enjoy the first day of Wolfpack football season! Go Pack!

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packgrad said:

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Chem has 3 black people that work FOR him and they say police are racist, so that means systemic racism is real. This is the logic you're debating.

---

packgrad said:

---

I got stopped and frisked on the hood of my car in Durham for driving by a crime scene too many times. This nonsense about systemic racism because you know 3 black people is stupid.

---

packgrad said:

---

What it really comes down to is people using words that they don't know the meaning of. Is there racism today? Yes. Is there systemic racism? No. Really simple.

---

Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

What it really comes down to is people using words that they don't know the meaning of. Is there racism today? Yes. Is there systemic racism? No. Really simple.

---

If police use skin color as a way of saying this person is questionable because they are going into a nice neighborhood, then I'd say it is.

Or this article from Austin Chronicle about that city. Shows the disproportionate metrics of stops / arrests of blacks versus other groups in that city

Google it and you'll find other articles similar (based on snippet in the search, though many of those articles require membership).

Or again, follow the actions of white CFB coaches who encourage and support their players speaking and acting out in the community. We think Doeren is great for his community leadership, and he has clearly empowered his players…but sure, it's it because they're experienced there's types of treatment, because a bunch of posters on ISP says it can't possibly be, lol

https://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2022-03-18/racial-profiling-report-finds-cops-still-racial-profiling/

---

caryking said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

What it really comes down to is people using words that they don't know the meaning of. Is there racism today? Yes. Is there systemic racism? No. Really simple.

---

If police use skin color as a way of saying this person is questionable because they are going into a nice neighborhood, then I'd say it is.

Or this article from Austin Chronicle about that city. Shows the disproportionate metrics of stops / arrests of blacks versus other groups in that city

Google it and you'll find other articles similar (based on snippet in the search, though many of those articles require membership).

Or again, follow the actions of white CFB coaches who encourage and support their players speaking and acting out in the community. We think Doeren is great for his community leadership, and he has clearly empowered his players…but sure, it's it because they're experienced there's types of treatment, because a bunch of posters on ISP says it can't possibly be, lol

https://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2022-03-18/racial-profiling-report-finds-cops-still-racial-profiling/

---

This conversation is exactly why we have divide, in our society…

Everybody agrees racism exist. Some may say it's white on black and others may say it's black on white racism. So, right there, getting to an agreement may become difficult. Now, systemic racism implies we have a system that is institutionally biased against a specific race. I think we do have levels of institutional biases; however, they may not be what you believe they are.

Regarding the article (even though I didn't read it), I think you have to consider profiling is a big part of any investigative process. Trends are an important ingredient in creating a profile for a crime. So, when a white person goes into a predominantly black neighborhood, a profile has been created that gives a reasonable possibility of what that person's reason for being in that neighborhood.

Chem, I think you need to look around the corner a little and see things aren't always what you want them to be…

---

Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

I got stopped and frisked on the hood of my car in Durham for driving by a crime scene too many times. This nonsense about systemic racism because you know 3 black people is stupid.

---

LOL, How does driving by a crime scene too many times or actually being in a crime area equate to a black teen walking home into a nice neighborhood. Walking into your neighborhood. A nice one. That is the definition of profiling.

You guys can deny it all you want, but of course it exists. You want to focus on 3 (out of 3) people questioned, that's fine…since it's FB season, what do you think response you'd get if you questioned every one of our black players? We know… there's a reason Dave has been so supportive of the marches that Moore and other players have led on.
But sure, stick your head in the sand…that approach usually works .

Is it bettter than it was when we were all kids…absolutely. Are we rid of these tendencies, absolutely not.
Can that still mean Biden over plays his hand on these things because it plays to his left base….sure he does.

But it's awfully white to say "policing base on race doesn't exist" or, as Cary said, is ok.

Some of you are the same guys who've been crying for two years and talking "civil war" because you believe the government singles you out for your actions (not getting vaccinated, wearing masks, etc), but think there is no evidence that black people are still singled out.

---

PackFansXL said:

---

People everywhere busted their butts putting that kind of thinking behind us. I was in the 4th grade when desegregation happened in UC. Things were pretty tough at school for a few years but we all finally figured out how to get along. Blacks have made massive strides in opportunity and achievement in the 50 years since.

What the hell suddenly happened that we have taken race relations back to those early desegregation years? Answer: Democrats decided to coin a term called systemic racism. Let's declare all white folks as racists by definition. It is the new evil and it is so bad that school teachers are telling little white kids they are the oppressors and are bad. Segregation is back in vogue and is actually taught and promoted by Democrats.

Progress made in race relations is being tossed aside for political gain. It is ugly, dishonest, and wrong. Wait until your grandkids come home and start teaching you about discovering they are racists too. Why? Well, apparently character no longer matters; just skin color. Shameful BS!

---

caryking said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

What it really comes down to is people using words that they don't know the meaning of. Is there racism today? Yes. Is there systemic racism? No. Really simple.

---

If police use skin color as a way of saying this person is questionable because they are going into a nice neighborhood, then I'd say it is.

Or this article from Austin Chronicle about that city. Shows the disproportionate metrics of stops / arrests of blacks versus other groups in that city

Google it and you'll find other articles similar (based on snippet in the search, though many of those articles require membership).

Or again, follow the actions of white CFB coaches who encourage and support their players speaking and acting out in the community. We think Doeren is great for his community leadership, and he has clearly empowered his players…but sure, it's it because they're experienced there's types of treatment, because a bunch of posters on ISP says it can't possibly be, lol

https://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2022-03-18/racial-profiling-report-finds-cops-still-racial-profiling/

---

This conversation is exactly why we have divide, in our society…

Everybody agrees racism exist. Some may say it's white on black and others may say it's black on white racism. So, right there, getting to an agreement may become difficult. Now, systemic racism implies we have a system that is institutionally biased against a specific race. I think we do have levels of institutional biases; however, they may not be what you believe they are.

Regarding the article (even though I didn't read it), I think you have to consider profiling is a big part of any investigative process. Trends are an important ingredient in creating a profile for a crime. So, when a white person goes into a predominantly black neighborhood, a profile has been created that gives a reasonable possibility of what that person's reason for being in that neighborhood.

Chem, I think you need to look around the corner a little and see things aren't always what you want them to be…

---

TheStorm said:

---

PackFansXL said:

---

People everywhere busted their butts putting that kind of thinking behind us. I was in the 4th grade when desegregation happened in UC. Things were pretty tough at school for a few years but we all finally figured out how to get along. Blacks have made massive strides in opportunity and achievement in the 50 years since.

What the hell suddenly happened that we have taken race relations back to those early desegregation years? Answer: Democrats decided to coin a term called systemic racism. Let's declare all white folks as racists by definition. It is the new evil and it is so bad that school teachers are telling little white kids they are the oppressors and are bad. Segregation is back in vogue and is actually taught and promoted by Democrats.

Progress made in race relations is being tossed aside for political gain. It is ugly, dishonest, and wrong. Wait until your grandkids come home and start teaching you about discovering they are racists too. Why? Well, apparently character no longer matters; just skin color. Shameful BS!

---

Democrats ruled the south when all that other stuff that Chem talks about was happening 60+ years ago as well... but nobody ever looks at it that way for some reason... they are getting away with the same old **** that they always have.

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

I got stopped and frisked on the hood of my car in Durham for driving by a crime scene too many times. This nonsense about systemic racism because you know 3 black people is stupid.

---

LOL, How does driving by a crime scene too many times or actually being in a crime area equate to a black teen walking home into a nice neighborhood. Walking into your neighborhood. A nice one. That is the definition of profiling.

You guys can deny it all you want, but of course it exists. You want to focus on 3 (out of 3) people questioned, that's fine…since it's FB season, what do you think response you'd get if you questioned every one of our black players? We know… there's a reason Dave has been so supportive of the marches that Moore and other players have led on.
But sure, stick your head in the sand…that approach usually works .

Is it bettter than it was when we were all kids…absolutely. Are we rid of these tendencies, absolutely not.
Can that still mean Biden over plays his hand on these things because it plays to his left base….sure he does.

But it's awfully white to say "policing base on race doesn't exist" or, as Cary said, is ok.

Some of you are the same guys who've been crying for two years and talking "civil war" because you believe the government singles you out for your actions (not getting vaccinated, wearing masks, etc), but think there is no evidence that black people are still singled out.

---

Just asking for clarification. Are you saying ask all players if they've been profiled or if racism exists?

---

Packchem91 said:

---

caryking said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

What it really comes down to is people using words that they don't know the meaning of. Is there racism today? Yes. Is there systemic racism? No. Really simple.

---

If police use skin color as a way of saying this person is questionable because they are going into a nice neighborhood, then I'd say it is.

Or this article from Austin Chronicle about that city. Shows the disproportionate metrics of stops / arrests of blacks versus other groups in that city

Google it and you'll find other articles similar (based on snippet in the search, though many of those articles require membership).

Or again, follow the actions of white CFB coaches who encourage and support their players speaking and acting out in the community. We think Doeren is great for his community leadership, and he has clearly empowered his players…but sure, it's it because they're experienced there's types of treatment, because a bunch of posters on ISP says it can't possibly be, lol

https://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2022-03-18/racial-profiling-report-finds-cops-still-racial-profiling/

---

This conversation is exactly why we have divide, in our society…

Everybody agrees racism exist. Some may say it's white on black and others may say it's black on white racism. So, right there, getting to an agreement may become difficult. Now, systemic racism implies we have a system that is institutionally biased against a specific race. I think we do have levels of institutional biases; however, they may not be what you believe they are.

Regarding the article (even though I didn't read it), I think you have to consider profiling is a big part of any investigative process. Trends are an important ingredient in creating a profile for a crime. So, when a white person goes into a predominantly black neighborhood, a profile has been created that gives a reasonable possibility of what that person's reason for being in that neighborhood.

Chem, I think you need to look around the corner a little and see things aren't always what you want them to be…

---

I'm sorry Cary, do you realize how ignorant that sounds? "This conversation is why we have a divide".
IF you agree racism exists, shouldn't we discuss how to get rid of it? Shouldn't we call it out?

As for systemic racism, I think it is fair to consider our policing, a system, don't you? If there is an inherent nature that traffic stops are consistently proportionally higher against blacks than whites in the same community....what do you call that?

Re: your example....so what is the profile that has been created for that white person that went into the predominantly black neighborhood, in your mind?


And what is the profile that is created when a black person walks into an expensive neighborhood?

As for your last comment....so as the father of a dark-skinned child, why would I want there to be a systemic bias against POC?

---

caryking said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

caryking said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

What it really comes down to is people using words that they don't know the meaning of. Is there racism today? Yes. Is there systemic racism? No. Really simple.

---

If police use skin color as a way of saying this person is questionable because they are going into a nice neighborhood, then I'd say it is.

Or this article from Austin Chronicle about that city. Shows the disproportionate metrics of stops / arrests of blacks versus other groups in that city

Google it and you'll find other articles similar (based on snippet in the search, though many of those articles require membership).

Or again, follow the actions of white CFB coaches who encourage and support their players speaking and acting out in the community. We think Doeren is great for his community leadership, and he has clearly empowered his players…but sure, it's it because they're experienced there's types of treatment, because a bunch of posters on ISP says it can't possibly be, lol

https://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2022-03-18/racial-profiling-report-finds-cops-still-racial-profiling/

---

This conversation is exactly why we have divide, in our society…

Everybody agrees racism exist. Some may say it's white on black and others may say it's black on white racism. So, right there, getting to an agreement may become difficult. Now, systemic racism implies we have a system that is institutionally biased against a specific race. I think we do have levels of institutional biases; however, they may not be what you believe they are.

Regarding the article (even though I didn't read it), I think you have to consider profiling is a big part of any investigative process. Trends are an important ingredient in creating a profile for a crime. So, when a white person goes into a predominantly black neighborhood, a profile has been created that gives a reasonable possibility of what that person's reason for being in that neighborhood.

Chem, I think you need to look around the corner a little and see things aren't always what you want them to be…

---

I'm sorry Cary, do you realize how ignorant that sounds? "This conversation is why we have a divide".
IF you agree racism exists, shouldn't we discuss how to get rid of it? Shouldn't we call it out?

As for systemic racism, I think it is fair to consider our policing, a system, don't you? If there is an inherent nature that traffic stops are consistently proportionally higher against blacks than whites in the same community....what do you call that?

Re: your example....so what is the profile that has been created for that white person that went into the predominantly black neighborhood, in your mind?


And what is the profile that is created when a black person walks into an expensive neighborhood?

As for your last comment....so as the father of a dark-skinned child, why would I want there to be a systemic bias against POC?

---

No, we shouldn't discuss how to get rid of it. It is what it is! People are who they are!! Racism will not be a thing in the future, as people age out and we get further away from our history.

In other words, don't dignify it, in any way whatsoever. Some people just lack a godly view on people…

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

I got stopped and frisked on the hood of my car in Durham for driving by a crime scene too many times. This nonsense about systemic racism because you know 3 black people is stupid.

---

LOL, How does driving by a crime scene too many times or actually being in a crime area equate to a black teen walking home into a nice neighborhood. Walking into your neighborhood. A nice one. That is the definition of profiling.

You guys can deny it all you want, but of course it exists. You want to focus on 3 (out of 3) people questioned, that's fine…since it's FB season, what do you think response you'd get if you questioned every one of our black players? We know… there's a reason Dave has been so supportive of the marches that Moore and other players have led on.
But sure, stick your head in the sand…that approach usually works .

Is it bettter than it was when we were all kids…absolutely. Are we rid of these tendencies, absolutely not.
Can that still mean Biden over plays his hand on these things because it plays to his left base….sure he does.

But it's awfully white to say "policing base on race doesn't exist" or, as Cary said, is ok.

Some of you are the same guys who've been crying for two years and talking "civil war" because you believe the government singles you out for your actions (not getting vaccinated, wearing masks, etc), but think there is no evidence that black people are still singled out.

---

Just asking for clarification. Are you saying ask all players if they've been profiled or if racism exists?

---

Well we know racism exists.

But PG doesn't accept my examples because I only asked the 3 black people who worked for me and they all had examples of family members who had been profiled and stopped (or searched additionally after stopped) despite there being no other evidence against them.

So yes, I'd be interested....if you polled the black team members on our FB team, or any other FB team, if they or there family members had ever been unreasonably stopped/searched in their lives....what % would agree?


**I get we will build in our own biases on what is reasonable.

---

packgrad said:

---

Lol. He really said only the black players.

This guy really knows how to prove systemic racism. Ask the 3 black people that work FOR him and only black players. Lol. Science.

Also it's hilarious that he knows that there was no reason for the searches of the family members of the 3 people that work FOR him. Just because they're black. Of course.

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

I got stopped and frisked on the hood of my car in Durham for driving by a crime scene too many times. This nonsense about systemic racism because you know 3 black people is stupid.

---

LOL, How does driving by a crime scene too many times or actually being in a crime area equate to a black teen walking home into a nice neighborhood. Walking into your neighborhood. A nice one. That is the definition of profiling.

You guys can deny it all you want, but of course it exists. You want to focus on 3 (out of 3) people questioned, that's fine…since it's FB season, what do you think response you'd get if you questioned every one of our black players? We know… there's a reason Dave has been so supportive of the marches that Moore and other players have led on.
But sure, stick your head in the sand…that approach usually works .

Is it bettter than it was when we were all kids…absolutely. Are we rid of these tendencies, absolutely not.
Can that still mean Biden over plays his hand on these things because it plays to his left base….sure he does.

But it's awfully white to say "policing base on race doesn't exist" or, as Cary said, is ok.

Some of you are the same guys who've been crying for two years and talking "civil war" because you believe the government singles you out for your actions (not getting vaccinated, wearing masks, etc), but think there is no evidence that black people are still singled out.

---

Just asking for clarification. Are you saying ask all players if they've been profiled or if racism exists?

---

Well we know racism exists.

But PG doesn't accept my examples because I only asked the 3 black people who worked for me and they all had examples of family members who had been profiled and stopped (or searched additionally after stopped) despite there being no other evidence against them.

So yes, I'd be interested....if you polled the black team members on our FB team, or any other FB team, if they or there family members had ever been unreasonably stopped/searched in their lives....what % would agree?


**I get we will build in our own biases on what is reasonable.

---

I understand the the story you're telling about the 3 people you know. I guess my question is, do you think that these 3 people represent all people of color and therefore happens to just about everyone?

I shared a good portion of my life with people of color, and yes I've heard the stories similar to what you describe. They are real. Some were upset a great deal and carried that feeling with them throughout their lives. Others brushed it off as a stupid one off. And others never had an instance like that.

More recently I've talked to people of color who think the democrats have lost their damn minds. They think that Trump was a good person and happily voted for him. And they also think that many people of color need to get over themselves and take responsibility for their own actions.

I don't think anyone on here thinks racism doesn't exist, nor profiling. I think the issue is that we can't take every example or instance of bad actors and claim there is a "systemic" problem. That's kind of what you're doing with your 3 examples.

Yes, racism exists. Yes profiling exists. (Political profiling also) But, we need to call out the bad seeds that cause these instances. You can't burn the entire forest down. We are a far cry from where we were in the first half of the 20th century. But we are not perfect either. The more we get rid of the bad seeds, the better we will continue to grow in the right direction.

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

I got stopped and frisked on the hood of my car in Durham for driving by a crime scene too many times. This nonsense about systemic racism because you know 3 black people is stupid.

---

LOL, How does driving by a crime scene too many times or actually being in a crime area equate to a black teen walking home into a nice neighborhood. Walking into your neighborhood. A nice one. That is the definition of profiling.

You guys can deny it all you want, but of course it exists. You want to focus on 3 (out of 3) people questioned, that's fine…since it's FB season, what do you think response you'd get if you questioned every one of our black players? We know… there's a reason Dave has been so supportive of the marches that Moore and other players have led on.
But sure, stick your head in the sand…that approach usually works .

Is it bettter than it was when we were all kids…absolutely. Are we rid of these tendencies, absolutely not.
Can that still mean Biden over plays his hand on these things because it plays to his left base….sure he does.

But it's awfully white to say "policing base on race doesn't exist" or, as Cary said, is ok.

Some of you are the same guys who've been crying for two years and talking "civil war" because you believe the government singles you out for your actions (not getting vaccinated, wearing masks, etc), but think there is no evidence that black people are still singled out.

---

Just asking for clarification. Are you saying ask all players if they've been profiled or if racism exists?

---

Well we know racism exists.

But PG doesn't accept my examples because I only asked the 3 black people who worked for me and they all had examples of family members who had been profiled and stopped (or searched additionally after stopped) despite there being no other evidence against them.

So yes, I'd be interested....if you polled the black team members on our FB team, or any other FB team, if they or there family members had ever been unreasonably stopped/searched in their lives....what % would agree?


**I get we will build in our own biases on what is reasonable.

---

I understand the the story you're telling about the 3 people you know. I guess my question is, do you think that these 3 people represent all people of color and therefore happens to just about everyone?

I shared a good portion of my life with people of color, and yes I've heard the stories similar to what you describe. They are real. Some were upset a great deal and carried that feeling with them throughout their lives. Others brushed it off as a stupid one off. And others never had an instance like that.

More recently I've talked to people of color who think the democrats have lost their damn minds. They think that Trump was a good person and happily voted for him. And they also think that many people of color need to get over themselves and take responsibility for their own actions.

I don't think anyone on here thinks racism doesn't exist, nor profiling. I think the issue is that we can't take every example or instance of bad actors and claim there is a "systemic" problem. That's kind of what you're doing with your 3 examples.

Yes, racism exists. Yes profiling exists. (Political profiling also) But, we need to call out the bad seeds that cause these instances. You can't burn the entire forest down. We are a far cry from where we were in the first half of the 20th century. But we are not perfect either. The more we get rid of the bad seeds, the better we will continue to grow in the right direction.

---

But if it is found in police departments all over the country and really, other then PG and a few others, who is going to argue it is isn't that the definition of systemic?

It's not just Florida, or San Fran, or the south, or Boston…it happens in all those places. Small cities, big cities.
At some point, isn't it more then just "a few bad actors"?

We can chalk up the Floyd murder as a few bad actors if you want, or any one specific instance like that, but when it's just things to bother people to let them know they have the power, etc, I would argue taht goes beyond bad apples and is systemic

Again, it's why Dave and other like minded coaches, are so supportive of these kids using their voices…it can make a difference.

Versus, as Cary says just put your head in the sand and wait.

---

packgrad said:

---

Lol. He really said only the black players.

This guy really knows how to prove systemic racism. Ask the 3 black people that work FOR him and only black players. Lol. Science.

Also it's hilarious that he knows that there was no reason for the searches of the family members of the 3 people that work FOR him. Just because they're black. Of course.

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

I got stopped and frisked on the hood of my car in Durham for driving by a crime scene too many times. This nonsense about systemic racism because you know 3 black people is stupid.

---

LOL, How does driving by a crime scene too many times or actually being in a crime area equate to a black teen walking home into a nice neighborhood. Walking into your neighborhood. A nice one. That is the definition of profiling.

You guys can deny it all you want, but of course it exists. You want to focus on 3 (out of 3) people questioned, that's fine…since it's FB season, what do you think response you'd get if you questioned every one of our black players? We know… there's a reason Dave has been so supportive of the marches that Moore and other players have led on.
But sure, stick your head in the sand…that approach usually works .

Is it bettter than it was when we were all kids…absolutely. Are we rid of these tendencies, absolutely not.
Can that still mean Biden over plays his hand on these things because it plays to his left base….sure he does.

But it's awfully white to say "policing base on race doesn't exist" or, as Cary said, is ok.

Some of you are the same guys who've been crying for two years and talking "civil war" because you believe the government singles you out for your actions (not getting vaccinated, wearing masks, etc), but think there is no evidence that black people are still singled out.

---

Just asking for clarification. Are you saying ask all players if they've been profiled or if racism exists?

---

Well we know racism exists.

But PG doesn't accept my examples because I only asked the 3 black people who worked for me and they all had examples of family members who had been profiled and stopped (or searched additionally after stopped) despite there being no other evidence against them.

So yes, I'd be interested....if you polled the black team members on our FB team, or any other FB team, if they or there family members had ever been unreasonably stopped/searched in their lives....what % would agree?


**I get we will build in our own biases on what is reasonable.

---

I understand the the story you're telling about the 3 people you know. I guess my question is, do you think that these 3 people represent all people of color and therefore happens to just about everyone?

I shared a good portion of my life with people of color, and yes I've heard the stories similar to what you describe. They are real. Some were upset a great deal and carried that feeling with them throughout their lives. Others brushed it off as a stupid one off. And others never had an instance like that.

More recently I've talked to people of color who think the democrats have lost their damn minds. They think that Trump was a good person and happily voted for him. And they also think that many people of color need to get over themselves and take responsibility for their own actions.

I don't think anyone on here thinks racism doesn't exist, nor profiling. I think the issue is that we can't take every example or instance of bad actors and claim there is a "systemic" problem. That's kind of what you're doing with your 3 examples.

Yes, racism exists. Yes profiling exists. (Political profiling also) But, we need to call out the bad seeds that cause these instances. You can't burn the entire forest down. We are a far cry from where we were in the first half of the 20th century. But we are not perfect either. The more we get rid of the bad seeds, the better we will continue to grow in the right direction.

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But if it is found in police departments all over the country and really, other then PG and a few others, who is going to argue it is isn't that the definition of systemic?

It's not just Florida, or San Fran, or the south, or Boston…it happens in all those places. Small cities, big cities.
At some point, isn't it more then just "a few bad actors"?

We can chalk up the Floyd murder as a few bad actors if you want, or any one specific instance like that, but when it's just things to bother people to let them know they have the power, etc, I would argue taht goes beyond bad apples and is systemic

Again, it's why Dave and other like minded coaches, are so supportive of these kids using their voices…it can make a difference.

Versus, as Cary says just put your head in the sand and wait.

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So, do you think all police officers think this way?

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Packchem91 said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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Packchem91 said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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Packchem91 said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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Packchem91 said:

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packgrad said:

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I got stopped and frisked on the hood of my car in Durham for driving by a crime scene too many times. This nonsense about systemic racism because you know 3 black people is stupid.

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LOL, How does driving by a crime scene too many times or actually being in a crime area equate to a black teen walking home into a nice neighborhood. Walking into your neighborhood. A nice one. That is the definition of profiling.

You guys can deny it all you want, but of course it exists. You want to focus on 3 (out of 3) people questioned, that's fine…since it's FB season, what do you think response you'd get if you questioned every one of our black players? We know… there's a reason Dave has been so supportive of the marches that Moore and other players have led on.
But sure, stick your head in the sand…that approach usually works .

Is it bettter than it was when we were all kids…absolutely. Are we rid of these tendencies, absolutely not.
Can that still mean Biden over plays his hand on these things because it plays to his left base….sure he does.

But it's awfully white to say "policing base on race doesn't exist" or, as Cary said, is ok.

Some of you are the same guys who've been crying for two years and talking "civil war" because you believe the government singles you out for your actions (not getting vaccinated, wearing masks, etc), but think there is no evidence that black people are still singled out.

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Just asking for clarification. Are you saying ask all players if they've been profiled or if racism exists?

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Well we know racism exists.

But PG doesn't accept my examples because I only asked the 3 black people who worked for me and they all had examples of family members who had been profiled and stopped (or searched additionally after stopped) despite there being no other evidence against them.

So yes, I'd be interested....if you polled the black team members on our FB team, or any other FB team, if they or there family members had ever been unreasonably stopped/searched in their lives....what % would agree?


**I get we will build in our own biases on what is reasonable.

---

I understand the the story you're telling about the 3 people you know. I guess my question is, do you think that these 3 people represent all people of color and therefore happens to just about everyone?

I shared a good portion of my life with people of color, and yes I've heard the stories similar to what you describe. They are real. Some were upset a great deal and carried that feeling with them throughout their lives. Others brushed it off as a stupid one off. And others never had an instance like that.

More recently I've talked to people of color who think the democrats have lost their damn minds. They think that Trump was a good person and happily voted for him. And they also think that many people of color need to get over themselves and take responsibility for their own actions.

I don't think anyone on here thinks racism doesn't exist, nor profiling. I think the issue is that we can't take every example or instance of bad actors and claim there is a "systemic" problem. That's kind of what you're doing with your 3 examples.

Yes, racism exists. Yes profiling exists. (Political profiling also) But, we need to call out the bad seeds that cause these instances. You can't burn the entire forest down. We are a far cry from where we were in the first half of the 20th century. But we are not perfect either. The more we get rid of the bad seeds, the better we will continue to grow in the right direction.

---

But if it is found in police departments all over the country and really, other then PG and a few others, who is going to argue it is isn't that the definition of systemic?

It's not just Florida, or San Fran, or the south, or Boston…it happens in all those places. Small cities, big cities.
At some point, isn't it more then just "a few bad actors"?

We can chalk up the Floyd murder as a few bad actors if you want, or any one specific instance like that, but when it's just things to bother people to let them know they have the power, etc, I would argue taht goes beyond bad apples and is systemic

Again, it's why Dave and other like minded coaches, are so supportive of these kids using their voices…it can make a difference.

Versus, as Cary says just put your head in the sand and wait.

---

So, do you think all police officers think this way?

---

Absolutely not. I also don't think all people who are in jail are guilty, nor all congressmen are looking out only for themselves, etc.
But I think systemically, Congress is a bunch of self-serving grifters.

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Steve Videtich said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

I got stopped and frisked on the hood of my car in Durham for driving by a crime scene too many times. This nonsense about systemic racism because you know 3 black people is stupid.

---

LOL, How does driving by a crime scene too many times or actually being in a crime area equate to a black teen walking home into a nice neighborhood. Walking into your neighborhood. A nice one. That is the definition of profiling.

You guys can deny it all you want, but of course it exists. You want to focus on 3 (out of 3) people questioned, that's fine…since it's FB season, what do you think response you'd get if you questioned every one of our black players? We know… there's a reason Dave has been so supportive of the marches that Moore and other players have led on.
But sure, stick your head in the sand…that approach usually works .

Is it bettter than it was when we were all kids…absolutely. Are we rid of these tendencies, absolutely not.
Can that still mean Biden over plays his hand on these things because it plays to his left base….sure he does.

But it's awfully white to say "policing base on race doesn't exist" or, as Cary said, is ok.

Some of you are the same guys who've been crying for two years and talking "civil war" because you believe the government singles you out for your actions (not getting vaccinated, wearing masks, etc), but think there is no evidence that black people are still singled out.

---

Just asking for clarification. Are you saying ask all players if they've been profiled or if racism exists?

---

Well we know racism exists.

But PG doesn't accept my examples because I only asked the 3 black people who worked for me and they all had examples of family members who had been profiled and stopped (or searched additionally after stopped) despite there being no other evidence against them.

So yes, I'd be interested....if you polled the black team members on our FB team, or any other FB team, if they or there family members had ever been unreasonably stopped/searched in their lives....what % would agree?


**I get we will build in our own biases on what is reasonable.

---

I understand the the story you're telling about the 3 people you know. I guess my question is, do you think that these 3 people represent all people of color and therefore happens to just about everyone?

I shared a good portion of my life with people of color, and yes I've heard the stories similar to what you describe. They are real. Some were upset a great deal and carried that feeling with them throughout their lives. Others brushed it off as a stupid one off. And others never had an instance like that.

More recently I've talked to people of color who think the democrats have lost their damn minds. They think that Trump was a good person and happily voted for him. And they also think that many people of color need to get over themselves and take responsibility for their own actions.

I don't think anyone on here thinks racism doesn't exist, nor profiling. I think the issue is that we can't take every example or instance of bad actors and claim there is a "systemic" problem. That's kind of what you're doing with your 3 examples.

Yes, racism exists. Yes profiling exists. (Political profiling also) But, we need to call out the bad seeds that cause these instances. You can't burn the entire forest down. We are a far cry from where we were in the first half of the 20th century. But we are not perfect either. The more we get rid of the bad seeds, the better we will continue to grow in the right direction.

---

But if it is found in police departments all over the country and really, other then PG and a few others, who is going to argue it is isn't that the definition of systemic?

It's not just Florida, or San Fran, or the south, or Boston…it happens in all those places. Small cities, big cities.
At some point, isn't it more then just "a few bad actors"?

We can chalk up the Floyd murder as a few bad actors if you want, or any one specific instance like that, but when it's just things to bother people to let them know they have the power, etc, I would argue taht goes beyond bad apples and is systemic

Again, it's why Dave and other like minded coaches, are so supportive of these kids using their voices…it can make a difference.

Versus, as Cary says just put your head in the sand and wait.

---

So, do you think all police officers think this way?

---

Absolutely not. I also don't think all people who are in jail are guilty, nor all congressmen are looking out only for themselves, etc.
But I think systemically, Congress is a bunch of self-serving grifters.

---

I'm not even sure what that response was. I asked about all police officers being racially motivated. So, I'll take the first couple words as your answer to that. The rest...I don't know.

Anyway, statistics say that police kill 75% more white people than the next closest demographic. While I would agree that profiling does exist with some police officers, could it be that a bigger issue might be police officers that are overly aggressive? Or, do you simply think that everything is race based only?

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Packchem91 said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

I got stopped and frisked on the hood of my car in Durham for driving by a crime scene too many times. This nonsense about systemic racism because you know 3 black people is stupid.

---

LOL, How does driving by a crime scene too many times or actually being in a crime area equate to a black teen walking home into a nice neighborhood. Walking into your neighborhood. A nice one. That is the definition of profiling.

You guys can deny it all you want, but of course it exists. You want to focus on 3 (out of 3) people questioned, that's fine…since it's FB season, what do you think response you'd get if you questioned every one of our black players? We know… there's a reason Dave has been so supportive of the marches that Moore and other players have led on.
But sure, stick your head in the sand…that approach usually works .

Is it bettter than it was when we were all kids…absolutely. Are we rid of these tendencies, absolutely not.
Can that still mean Biden over plays his hand on these things because it plays to his left base….sure he does.

But it's awfully white to say "policing base on race doesn't exist" or, as Cary said, is ok.

Some of you are the same guys who've been crying for two years and talking "civil war" because you believe the government singles you out for your actions (not getting vaccinated, wearing masks, etc), but think there is no evidence that black people are still singled out.

---

Just asking for clarification. Are you saying ask all players if they've been profiled or if racism exists?

---

Well we know racism exists.

But PG doesn't accept my examples because I only asked the 3 black people who worked for me and they all had examples of family members who had been profiled and stopped (or searched additionally after stopped) despite there being no other evidence against them.

So yes, I'd be interested....if you polled the black team members on our FB team, or any other FB team, if they or there family members had ever been unreasonably stopped/searched in their lives....what % would agree?


**I get we will build in our own biases on what is reasonable.

---

I understand the the story you're telling about the 3 people you know. I guess my question is, do you think that these 3 people represent all people of color and therefore happens to just about everyone?

I shared a good portion of my life with people of color, and yes I've heard the stories similar to what you describe. They are real. Some were upset a great deal and carried that feeling with them throughout their lives. Others brushed it off as a stupid one off. And others never had an instance like that.

More recently I've talked to people of color who think the democrats have lost their damn minds. They think that Trump was a good person and happily voted for him. And they also think that many people of color need to get over themselves and take responsibility for their own actions.

I don't think anyone on here thinks racism doesn't exist, nor profiling. I think the issue is that we can't take every example or instance of bad actors and claim there is a "systemic" problem. That's kind of what you're doing with your 3 examples.

Yes, racism exists. Yes profiling exists. (Political profiling also) But, we need to call out the bad seeds that cause these instances. You can't burn the entire forest down. We are a far cry from where we were in the first half of the 20th century. But we are not perfect either. The more we get rid of the bad seeds, the better we will continue to grow in the right direction.

---

But if it is found in police departments all over the country and really, other then PG and a few others, who is going to argue it is isn't that the definition of systemic?

It's not just Florida, or San Fran, or the south, or Boston…it happens in all those places. Small cities, big cities.
At some point, isn't it more then just "a few bad actors"?

We can chalk up the Floyd murder as a few bad actors if you want, or any one specific instance like that, but when it's just things to bother people to let them know they have the power, etc, I would argue taht goes beyond bad apples and is systemic

Again, it's why Dave and other like minded coaches, are so supportive of these kids using their voices…it can make a difference.

Versus, as Cary says just put your head in the sand and wait.

---

So, do you think all police officers think this way?

---

Absolutely not. I also don't think all people who are in jail are guilty, nor all congressmen are looking out only for themselves, etc.
But I think systemically, Congress is a bunch of self-serving grifters.

---

I'm not even sure what that response was. I asked about all police officers being racially motivated. So, I'll take the first couple words as your answer to that. The rest...I don't know.

Anyway, statistics say that police kill 75% more white people than the next closest demographic. While I would agree that profiling does exist with some police officers, could it be that a bigger issue might be police officers that are overly aggressive? Or, do you simply think that everything is race based only?

---

I thought it was pretty clear…not all police are racists, that doesn't meant the system doesn't have issues with racial profiling, across the country

Statistics also say a black man is like x times more likely to die at the hands of a cop than a white man.

I 100% believe some cops can be overly aggressive - some love the power regardless of race. That's why it's a problem if you then couple taht with a system that by design looks for blacks more

Btw, to your last comment…there is nothing "simple" about this. Which is why we can't just say "it's not happening, just get over it"

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Steve Videtich said:

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Okay, I'll show you my actual statistics,

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1124036/number-people-killed-police-ethnicity-us/

now you show me yours that say "x' times. Not an article that claims that, actual statistics that show that.

ETA: I looked up those studies and they're based off numbers compared to % of population.

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Packchem91 said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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Okay, I'll show you my actual statistics,

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1124036/number-people-killed-police-ethnicity-us/

now you show me yours that say "x' times. Not an article that claims that, actual statistics that show that.

ETA: I looked up those studies and they're based off numbers compared to % of population.

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Sure. Same source. Rate if fatal police shootings is 2.5x for black over white

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1123070/police-shootings-rate-ethnicity-us/

Now clearly, those are not all race-based. Some, maybe many, are legit shootings.
But that's not an insignificant number.

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