The Biden Administration..V3

149,044 Views | 3158 Replies | Last: 19 min ago by TheStorm
Packchem91
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Steve Videtich said:

caryking said:

Steve Videtich said:

Okay, let me ask you this. If they find nothing and he isn't charged with anything, what merits were they working on? Again, you don't know that they have classified or declassified documents. You don't! You're basing everything off of what the media is telling you they found in an investigation that is supposed to be highly sensitive with no leaks.

So our merits so far of the FBI are, we've asked you to turn over documents we think you have. The first lot didn't have what we think you have, so we'll ask again. The second lot didn't have what we think you have, so we'll ask again.

Now we're still not getting what we want, so we're going to raid and search your home. So far that doesn't seem to have worked either. Now they're looking at obstruction charges for supposedly moving items from a folder to his desk. If you have him on a legit crime, why are they going for obstruction?

I have said that if the man did something wrong he should pay for it. If he didn't stop trying to create it. As Chem so democratically put it, it's another black mark against him. You can paint it any color you want, this entire exercise is meant to keep Trump from getting into the WH ever again.

As for my comparisons between he and HRC. I would hope that every American would expect fair and equal treatment under the law. If any of you were in Trump's shoes, you would be doing exactly what he's doing and I would be saying the exact same thing for you. Tell me that way of thinking is wrong.
How many times do I have to say this?

Nobody gives a DAMN about these documents!!!


Chem keeps arguing with you about fair treatment by the police of everyday people. But, he's okay with unfair treatment that the FBI is currently carrying out. And don't come at me Chem, because it's the same damn thing! Profiling!

ETA: I'm done for today so can go enjoy the first day of Wolfpack football season! Go Pack!


Lol what a silly comparison. so you think it's the same when the authorities stop a black kid for walking into a nice neighborhood (where he lives) as when the authorities learn that someone (happens to be a former POTUS) has something he should not have amd so go get it.

Those two things are not the same, but nice try.

ETA: agreed, go Pack. Make this a day taht we'll all be happy even if we disagree on some stuff!
Steve Videtich
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They don't know and you don't know. They're making an assumption. 100% exactly the same.
packgrad
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Again

packgrad said:

Chem has 3 black people that work FOR him and they say police are racist, so that means systemic racism is real. This is the logic you're debating.
PackFansXL
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Packchem91 said:

PackFansXL said:

People everywhere busted their butts putting that kind of thinking behind us. I was in the 4th grade when desegregation happened in UC. Things were pretty tough at school for a few years but we all finally figured out how to get along. Blacks have made massive strides in opportunity and achievement in the 50 years since.

What the hell suddenly happened that we have taken race relations back to those early desegregation years? Answer: Democrats decided to coin a term called systemic racism. Let's declare all white folks as racists by definition. It is the new evil and it is so bad that school teachers are telling little white kids they are the oppressors and are bad. Segregation is back in vogue and is actually taught and promoted by Democrats.

Progress made in race relations is being tossed aside for political gain. It is ugly, dishonest, and wrong. Wait until your grandkids come home and start teaching you about discovering they are racists too. Why? Well, apparently character no longer matters; just skin color. Shameful BS!


You didn't answer my queustion I see how many times you, your kids, your wife, etc, get stopped while walking home?

The CRT stuff….I agree with you on. That doesn't mean the system is rid of all racism
I have never walked home in a predominately black neighborhood; so, I have no similar experiences.

The closest thing I can come with is an experience in Detroit, MI. Shortly after my daughter developed to the ability to go without a diaper, we were visiting my MIL in Lansing, MI. On the return trip, we drove over to see the lake and she announced she had to use the restroom. I found a new fast food combo store and rushed her to the men's room but the door wouldn't open. I waited but she had to go and a polite knock on the door yielded no response. I reasoned that perhaps this had a keyed access policy like many gas stations used to do. When I walked to the cashier counter, I was stunned to find a glass wall separating the cashier from customers. Eventually I came to my senses and asked for the key to the men's room. He explained that he would "buzz me in" when I got back to the men's room entrance. Fortunately, everything went smoothly and we bolted out of that restaurant and kept our experience to ourselves as we drove back to the airport. The wife would have been panicked for days.

I was telling a coworker from MI about my experience the following week and she told me there are several areas around Detroit that are known to be very dangerous, especially for white folks. She told me about the time her brother was left behind at a bar by his buddies one night. He was walking home and had to walk through one of those neighborhoods when the cops stopped him and advised he get in the car because it was too dangerous for someone looking like him to be walking in that neighborhood after dark.

Chem, does profiling equate to racism? To me, racism implies hatred for another race. I'm not sure the experiences you've described imply hatred. I would anticipate that experiences like those of your employees would diminish over time as more folks of all races continue to experience financial success and with it move into nicer neighborhoods. I consider that behavior a trailing indicator, not a leading indicator. That doesn't mean we have rooted out all sick and hateful forms of racism though, but surely you don't believe it is a predominate attitude in 21st century America. Do you?

My primary point about Democrat politicians remains. I don't believe we have suddenly developed a new hatred across America. I say new because during the 50 years since desegregation, we haven't heard presidents and politicians harping on systemic racism as our greatest cultural threat. Our nation has progressed a long way since those days, see two term black POTUS prior to HWSNBN.

I don't believe systemic racism exists in this country. Systemic implies engrained, normative, customary. Haven't we personally witnessed most if not all that BS disappear? I think Biden's claims are just another divisive myth perpetuated by a political party designed to drive voting patterns. Are their random pockets of folks harboring racist attitudes? I imagine so, but I don't see any evidence of it personally. It certainly has nothing to do with mainstream Republican political positions. This POTUS or his handlers may believe that, but I think it is just another Democratic lie designed to mislead voters.
hokiewolf
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I got pulled over in HS in Durham back in the day after dropping off a teammate after a football game leaving Few Gardens because I was white and they thought I was buying drugs.
packgrad
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I got stopped and frisked on the hood of my car in Durham for driving by a crime scene too many times. This nonsense about systemic racism because you know 3 black people is stupid.
Packchem91
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packgrad said:

I got stopped and frisked on the hood of my car in Durham for driving by a crime scene too many times. This nonsense about systemic racism because you know 3 black people is stupid.


LOL, How does driving by a crime scene too many times or actually being in a crime area equate to a black teen walking home into a nice neighborhood. Walking into your neighborhood. A nice one. That is the definition of profiling.

You guys can deny it all you want, but of course it exists. You want to focus on 3 (out of 3) people questioned, that's fine…since it's FB season, what do you think response you'd get if you questioned every one of our black players? We know… there's a reason Dave has been so supportive of the marches that Moore and other players have led on.
But sure, stick your head in the sand…that approach usually works .

Is it bettter than it was when we were all kids…absolutely. Are we rid of these tendencies, absolutely not.
Can that still mean Biden over plays his hand on these things because it plays to his left base….sure he does.

But it's awfully white to say "policing base on race doesn't exist" or, as Cary said, is ok.

Some of you are the same guys who've been crying for two years and talking "civil war" because you believe the government singles you out for your actions (not getting vaccinated, wearing masks, etc), but think there is no evidence that black people are still singled out.

packgrad
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What it really comes down to is people using words that they don't know the meaning of. Is there racism today? Yes. Is there systemic racism? No. Really simple.
Packchem91
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packgrad said:

What it really comes down to is people using words that they don't know the meaning of. Is there racism today? Yes. Is there systemic racism? No. Really simple.


If police use skin color as a way of saying this person is questionable because they are going into a nice neighborhood, then I'd say it is.

Or this article from Austin Chronicle about that city. Shows the disproportionate metrics of stops / arrests of blacks versus other groups in that city

Google it and you'll find other articles similar (based on snippet in the search, though many of those articles require membership).

Or again, follow the actions of white CFB coaches who encourage and support their players speaking and acting out in the community. We think Doeren is great for his community leadership, and he has clearly empowered his players…but sure, it's it because they're experienced there's types of treatment, because a bunch of posters on ISP says it can't possibly be, lol

https://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2022-03-18/racial-profiling-report-finds-cops-still-racial-profiling/



caryking
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Packchem91 said:

packgrad said:

What it really comes down to is people using words that they don't know the meaning of. Is there racism today? Yes. Is there systemic racism? No. Really simple.


If police use skin color as a way of saying this person is questionable because they are going into a nice neighborhood, then I'd say it is.

Or this article from Austin Chronicle about that city. Shows the disproportionate metrics of stops / arrests of blacks versus other groups in that city

Google it and you'll find other articles similar (based on snippet in the search, though many of those articles require membership).

Or again, follow the actions of white CFB coaches who encourage and support their players speaking and acting out in the community. We think Doeren is great for his community leadership, and he has clearly empowered his players…but sure, it's it because they're experienced there's types of treatment, because a bunch of posters on ISP says it can't possibly be, lol

https://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2022-03-18/racial-profiling-report-finds-cops-still-racial-profiling/




This conversation is exactly why we have divide, in our society…

Everybody agrees racism exist. Some may say it's white on black and others may say it's black on white racism. So, right there, getting to an agreement may become difficult. Now, systemic racism implies we have a system that is institutionally biased against a specific race. I think we do have levels of institutional biases; however, they may not be what you believe they are.

Regarding the article (even though I didn't read it), I think you have to consider profiling is a big part of any investigative process. Trends are an important ingredient in creating a profile for a crime. So, when a white person goes into a predominantly black neighborhood, a profile has been created that gives a reasonable possibility of what that person's reason for being in that neighborhood.

Chem, I think you need to look around the corner a little and see things aren't always what you want them to be…
The Administrative State - Rise of the Fourth Reich!!
Werewolf
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caryking said:

Packchem91 said:

packgrad said:

What it really comes down to is people using words that they don't know the meaning of. Is there racism today? Yes. Is there systemic racism? No. Really simple.


If police use skin color as a way of saying this person is questionable because they are going into a nice neighborhood, then I'd say it is.

Or this article from Austin Chronicle about that city. Shows the disproportionate metrics of stops / arrests of blacks versus other groups in that city

Google it and you'll find other articles similar (based on snippet in the search, though many of those articles require membership).

Or again, follow the actions of white CFB coaches who encourage and support their players speaking and acting out in the community. We think Doeren is great for his community leadership, and he has clearly empowered his players…but sure, it's it because they're experienced there's types of treatment, because a bunch of posters on ISP says it can't possibly be, lol

https://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2022-03-18/racial-profiling-report-finds-cops-still-racial-profiling/




This conversation is exactly why we have divide, in our society…

Everybody agrees racism exist. Some may say it's white on black and others may say it's black on white racism. So, right there, getting to an agreement may become difficult. Now, systemic racism implies we have a system that is institutionally biased against a specific race. I think we do have levels of institutional biases; however, they may not be what you believe they are.

Regarding the article (even though I didn't read it), I think you have to consider profiling is a big part of any investigative process. Trends are an important ingredient in creating a profile for a crime. So, when a white person goes into a predominantly black neighborhood, a profile has been created that gives a reasonable possibility of what that person's reason for being in that neighborhood.

Chem, I think you need to look around the corner a little and see things aren't always what you want them to be…
People all over the world have biases and racism is a bias. in the 1960s this bias existed to a different degree and because I grew up in this era doesn't mean I was racist. In fact, if either me or my 3 siblings ever uttered the N word we'd have had he$$ to pay........not just mom but dad too. It starts at home. Be a good person and respect others.........however, it cannot be legislated. It won't be 100% what you hope for. The same people that trafficked slaves in the 1600's and 1700's are also the same lineage of people behind child and human trafficking today. Also the same people behind the agitation of this issue today. Don't allow it to distract us now .........that is its purpose.
Steve Videtich
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Packchem91 said:

packgrad said:

I got stopped and frisked on the hood of my car in Durham for driving by a crime scene too many times. This nonsense about systemic racism because you know 3 black people is stupid.


LOL, How does driving by a crime scene too many times or actually being in a crime area equate to a black teen walking home into a nice neighborhood. Walking into your neighborhood. A nice one. That is the definition of profiling.

You guys can deny it all you want, but of course it exists. You want to focus on 3 (out of 3) people questioned, that's fine…since it's FB season, what do you think response you'd get if you questioned every one of our black players? We know… there's a reason Dave has been so supportive of the marches that Moore and other players have led on.
But sure, stick your head in the sand…that approach usually works .

Is it bettter than it was when we were all kids…absolutely. Are we rid of these tendencies, absolutely not.
Can that still mean Biden over plays his hand on these things because it plays to his left base….sure he does.

But it's awfully white to say "policing base on race doesn't exist" or, as Cary said, is ok.

Some of you are the same guys who've been crying for two years and talking "civil war" because you believe the government singles you out for your actions (not getting vaccinated, wearing masks, etc), but think there is no evidence that black people are still singled out.




Just asking for clarification. Are you saying ask all players if they've been profiled or if racism exists?
TheStorm
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PackFansXL said:

People everywhere busted their butts putting that kind of thinking behind us. I was in the 4th grade when desegregation happened in UC. Things were pretty tough at school for a few years but we all finally figured out how to get along. Blacks have made massive strides in opportunity and achievement in the 50 years since.

What the hell suddenly happened that we have taken race relations back to those early desegregation years? Answer: Democrats decided to coin a term called systemic racism. Let's declare all white folks as racists by definition. It is the new evil and it is so bad that school teachers are telling little white kids they are the oppressors and are bad. Segregation is back in vogue and is actually taught and promoted by Democrats.

Progress made in race relations is being tossed aside for political gain. It is ugly, dishonest, and wrong. Wait until your grandkids come home and start teaching you about discovering they are racists too. Why? Well, apparently character no longer matters; just skin color. Shameful BS!
Democrats ruled the south when all that other stuff that Chem talks about was happening 60+ years ago as well... but nobody ever looks at it that way for some reason... they are getting away with the same old **** that they always have.
Packchem91
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caryking said:

Packchem91 said:

packgrad said:

What it really comes down to is people using words that they don't know the meaning of. Is there racism today? Yes. Is there systemic racism? No. Really simple.


If police use skin color as a way of saying this person is questionable because they are going into a nice neighborhood, then I'd say it is.

Or this article from Austin Chronicle about that city. Shows the disproportionate metrics of stops / arrests of blacks versus other groups in that city

Google it and you'll find other articles similar (based on snippet in the search, though many of those articles require membership).

Or again, follow the actions of white CFB coaches who encourage and support their players speaking and acting out in the community. We think Doeren is great for his community leadership, and he has clearly empowered his players…but sure, it's it because they're experienced there's types of treatment, because a bunch of posters on ISP says it can't possibly be, lol

https://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2022-03-18/racial-profiling-report-finds-cops-still-racial-profiling/




This conversation is exactly why we have divide, in our society…

Everybody agrees racism exist. Some may say it's white on black and others may say it's black on white racism. So, right there, getting to an agreement may become difficult. Now, systemic racism implies we have a system that is institutionally biased against a specific race. I think we do have levels of institutional biases; however, they may not be what you believe they are.

Regarding the article (even though I didn't read it), I think you have to consider profiling is a big part of any investigative process. Trends are an important ingredient in creating a profile for a crime. So, when a white person goes into a predominantly black neighborhood, a profile has been created that gives a reasonable possibility of what that person's reason for being in that neighborhood.

Chem, I think you need to look around the corner a little and see things aren't always what you want them to be…
I'm sorry Cary, do you realize how ignorant that sounds? "This conversation is why we have a divide".
IF you agree racism exists, shouldn't we discuss how to get rid of it? Shouldn't we call it out?

As for systemic racism, I think it is fair to consider our policing, a system, don't you? If there is an inherent nature that traffic stops are consistently proportionally higher against blacks than whites in the same community....what do you call that?

Re: your example....so what is the profile that has been created for that white person that went into the predominantly black neighborhood, in your mind?


And what is the profile that is created when a black person walks into an expensive neighborhood?

As for your last comment....so as the father of a dark-skinned child, why would I want there to be a systemic bias against POC?
Packchem91
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TheStorm said:

PackFansXL said:

People everywhere busted their butts putting that kind of thinking behind us. I was in the 4th grade when desegregation happened in UC. Things were pretty tough at school for a few years but we all finally figured out how to get along. Blacks have made massive strides in opportunity and achievement in the 50 years since.

What the hell suddenly happened that we have taken race relations back to those early desegregation years? Answer: Democrats decided to coin a term called systemic racism. Let's declare all white folks as racists by definition. It is the new evil and it is so bad that school teachers are telling little white kids they are the oppressors and are bad. Segregation is back in vogue and is actually taught and promoted by Democrats.

Progress made in race relations is being tossed aside for political gain. It is ugly, dishonest, and wrong. Wait until your grandkids come home and start teaching you about discovering they are racists too. Why? Well, apparently character no longer matters; just skin color. Shameful BS!
Democrats ruled the south when all that other stuff that Chem talks about was happening 60+ years ago as well... but nobody ever looks at it that way for some reason... they are getting away with the same old **** that they always have.
Frankly, I'm not sure the issues we had in the 100 years between CW and the Civil Rights movement reflected well on either party, do you?
Even many of the churches at the time weren't always very helpful in matters.

But we can't undo that. We can change things going forward. I don't give Dems a pass today on this topic. I think they use black people and black issue as pawns. Biden does. But at the same time, there are some biases that still exist. We haven't come so far that we are beyond them.
Packchem91
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Steve Videtich said:

Packchem91 said:

packgrad said:

I got stopped and frisked on the hood of my car in Durham for driving by a crime scene too many times. This nonsense about systemic racism because you know 3 black people is stupid.


LOL, How does driving by a crime scene too many times or actually being in a crime area equate to a black teen walking home into a nice neighborhood. Walking into your neighborhood. A nice one. That is the definition of profiling.

You guys can deny it all you want, but of course it exists. You want to focus on 3 (out of 3) people questioned, that's fine…since it's FB season, what do you think response you'd get if you questioned every one of our black players? We know… there's a reason Dave has been so supportive of the marches that Moore and other players have led on.
But sure, stick your head in the sand…that approach usually works .

Is it bettter than it was when we were all kids…absolutely. Are we rid of these tendencies, absolutely not.
Can that still mean Biden over plays his hand on these things because it plays to his left base….sure he does.

But it's awfully white to say "policing base on race doesn't exist" or, as Cary said, is ok.

Some of you are the same guys who've been crying for two years and talking "civil war" because you believe the government singles you out for your actions (not getting vaccinated, wearing masks, etc), but think there is no evidence that black people are still singled out.




Just asking for clarification. Are you saying ask all players if they've been profiled or if racism exists?
Well we know racism exists.

But PG doesn't accept my examples because I only asked the 3 black people who worked for me and they all had examples of family members who had been profiled and stopped (or searched additionally after stopped) despite there being no other evidence against them.

So yes, I'd be interested....if you polled the black team members on our FB team, or any other FB team, if they or there family members had ever been unreasonably stopped/searched in their lives....what % would agree?


**I get we will build in our own biases on what is reasonable.
packgrad
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Lol. He really said only the black players.

This guy really knows how to prove systemic racism. Ask the 3 black people that work FOR him and only black players. Lol. Science.

Also it's hilarious that he knows that there was no reason for the searches of the family members of the 3 people that work FOR him. Just because they're black. Of course.
Werewolf
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spot on
caryking
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Packchem91 said:

caryking said:

Packchem91 said:

packgrad said:

What it really comes down to is people using words that they don't know the meaning of. Is there racism today? Yes. Is there systemic racism? No. Really simple.


If police use skin color as a way of saying this person is questionable because they are going into a nice neighborhood, then I'd say it is.

Or this article from Austin Chronicle about that city. Shows the disproportionate metrics of stops / arrests of blacks versus other groups in that city

Google it and you'll find other articles similar (based on snippet in the search, though many of those articles require membership).

Or again, follow the actions of white CFB coaches who encourage and support their players speaking and acting out in the community. We think Doeren is great for his community leadership, and he has clearly empowered his players…but sure, it's it because they're experienced there's types of treatment, because a bunch of posters on ISP says it can't possibly be, lol

https://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2022-03-18/racial-profiling-report-finds-cops-still-racial-profiling/




This conversation is exactly why we have divide, in our society…

Everybody agrees racism exist. Some may say it's white on black and others may say it's black on white racism. So, right there, getting to an agreement may become difficult. Now, systemic racism implies we have a system that is institutionally biased against a specific race. I think we do have levels of institutional biases; however, they may not be what you believe they are.

Regarding the article (even though I didn't read it), I think you have to consider profiling is a big part of any investigative process. Trends are an important ingredient in creating a profile for a crime. So, when a white person goes into a predominantly black neighborhood, a profile has been created that gives a reasonable possibility of what that person's reason for being in that neighborhood.

Chem, I think you need to look around the corner a little and see things aren't always what you want them to be…
I'm sorry Cary, do you realize how ignorant that sounds? "This conversation is why we have a divide".
IF you agree racism exists, shouldn't we discuss how to get rid of it? Shouldn't we call it out?


As for systemic racism, I think it is fair to consider our policing, a system, don't you? If there is an inherent nature that traffic stops are consistently proportionally higher against blacks than whites in the same community....what do you call that?

Re: your example....so what is the profile that has been created for that white person that went into the predominantly black neighborhood, in your mind?


And what is the profile that is created when a black person walks into an expensive neighborhood?

As for your last comment....so as the father of a dark-skinned child, why would I want there to be a systemic bias against POC?
No, we shouldn't discuss how to get rid of it. It is what it is! People are who they are!! Racism will not be a thing in the future, as people age out and we get further away from our history.

In other words, don't dignify it, in any way whatsoever. Some people just lack a godly view on people…
The Administrative State - Rise of the Fourth Reich!!
Packchem91
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caryking said:

Packchem91 said:

caryking said:

Packchem91 said:

packgrad said:

What it really comes down to is people using words that they don't know the meaning of. Is there racism today? Yes. Is there systemic racism? No. Really simple.


If police use skin color as a way of saying this person is questionable because they are going into a nice neighborhood, then I'd say it is.

Or this article from Austin Chronicle about that city. Shows the disproportionate metrics of stops / arrests of blacks versus other groups in that city

Google it and you'll find other articles similar (based on snippet in the search, though many of those articles require membership).

Or again, follow the actions of white CFB coaches who encourage and support their players speaking and acting out in the community. We think Doeren is great for his community leadership, and he has clearly empowered his players…but sure, it's it because they're experienced there's types of treatment, because a bunch of posters on ISP says it can't possibly be, lol

https://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2022-03-18/racial-profiling-report-finds-cops-still-racial-profiling/




This conversation is exactly why we have divide, in our society…

Everybody agrees racism exist. Some may say it's white on black and others may say it's black on white racism. So, right there, getting to an agreement may become difficult. Now, systemic racism implies we have a system that is institutionally biased against a specific race. I think we do have levels of institutional biases; however, they may not be what you believe they are.

Regarding the article (even though I didn't read it), I think you have to consider profiling is a big part of any investigative process. Trends are an important ingredient in creating a profile for a crime. So, when a white person goes into a predominantly black neighborhood, a profile has been created that gives a reasonable possibility of what that person's reason for being in that neighborhood.

Chem, I think you need to look around the corner a little and see things aren't always what you want them to be…
I'm sorry Cary, do you realize how ignorant that sounds? "This conversation is why we have a divide".
IF you agree racism exists, shouldn't we discuss how to get rid of it? Shouldn't we call it out?


As for systemic racism, I think it is fair to consider our policing, a system, don't you? If there is an inherent nature that traffic stops are consistently proportionally higher against blacks than whites in the same community....what do you call that?

Re: your example....so what is the profile that has been created for that white person that went into the predominantly black neighborhood, in your mind?


And what is the profile that is created when a black person walks into an expensive neighborhood?

As for your last comment....so as the father of a dark-skinned child, why would I want there to be a systemic bias against POC?
No, we shouldn't discuss how to get rid of it. It is what it is! People are who they are!! Racism will not be a thing in the future, as people age out and we get further away from our history.

In other words, don't dignify it, in any way whatsoever. Some people just lack a godly view on people…


Lol, yes children, the best way to address a problem ignore it! (Especially when you are not the one effected by it)

So again, what do you think is the profile formed when I, as a white guy, walks into a predominantly black neighborhood?
Steve Videtich
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Packchem91 said:

Steve Videtich said:

Packchem91 said:

packgrad said:

I got stopped and frisked on the hood of my car in Durham for driving by a crime scene too many times. This nonsense about systemic racism because you know 3 black people is stupid.


LOL, How does driving by a crime scene too many times or actually being in a crime area equate to a black teen walking home into a nice neighborhood. Walking into your neighborhood. A nice one. That is the definition of profiling.

You guys can deny it all you want, but of course it exists. You want to focus on 3 (out of 3) people questioned, that's fine…since it's FB season, what do you think response you'd get if you questioned every one of our black players? We know… there's a reason Dave has been so supportive of the marches that Moore and other players have led on.
But sure, stick your head in the sand…that approach usually works .

Is it bettter than it was when we were all kids…absolutely. Are we rid of these tendencies, absolutely not.
Can that still mean Biden over plays his hand on these things because it plays to his left base….sure he does.

But it's awfully white to say "policing base on race doesn't exist" or, as Cary said, is ok.

Some of you are the same guys who've been crying for two years and talking "civil war" because you believe the government singles you out for your actions (not getting vaccinated, wearing masks, etc), but think there is no evidence that black people are still singled out.




Just asking for clarification. Are you saying ask all players if they've been profiled or if racism exists?
Well we know racism exists.

But PG doesn't accept my examples because I only asked the 3 black people who worked for me and they all had examples of family members who had been profiled and stopped (or searched additionally after stopped) despite there being no other evidence against them.

So yes, I'd be interested....if you polled the black team members on our FB team, or any other FB team, if they or there family members had ever been unreasonably stopped/searched in their lives....what % would agree?


**I get we will build in our own biases on what is reasonable.


I understand the the story you're telling about the 3 people you know. I guess my question is, do you think that these 3 people represent all people of color and therefore happens to just about everyone?

I shared a good portion of my life with people of color, and yes I've heard the stories similar to what you describe. They are real. Some were upset a great deal and carried that feeling with them throughout their lives. Others brushed it off as a stupid one off. And others never had an instance like that.

More recently I've talked to people of color who think the democrats have lost their damn minds. They think that Trump was a good person and happily voted for him. And they also think that many people of color need to get over themselves and take responsibility for their own actions.

I don't think anyone on here thinks racism doesn't exist, nor profiling. I think the issue is that we can't take every example or instance of bad actors and claim there is a "systemic" problem. That's kind of what you're doing with your 3 examples.

Yes, racism exists. Yes profiling exists. (Political profiling also) But, we need to call out the bad seeds that cause these instances. You can't burn the entire forest down. We are a far cry from where we were in the first half of the 20th century. But we are not perfect either. The more we get rid of the bad seeds, the better we will continue to grow in the right direction.
Werewolf
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Democrats want us fighting over this issue ...........it helps divide some of us, others not. Divide and conquer. Distract with one thing so you're able to accomplish something else out of the limelight. We're fighting a Color Revolution, somewhat.... and Chem and Civ hi-jack this thread with "systematic racism".......
Packchem91
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packgrad said:

Lol. He really said only the black players.

This guy really knows how to prove systemic racism. Ask the 3 black people that work FOR him and only black players. Lol. Science.

Also it's hilarious that he knows that there was no reason for the searches of the family members of the 3 people that work FOR him. Just because they're black. Of course.


Well , I mean I have to go by their words. I have no reason to distrust them.
1) black teen stopped walking rom his nearby place of work to his nice neighborhood

2) black adult - one of my employees - stopped for ultimately speeding, but asked to move a bunch of bags out of his trunk to prove there were no drugs. This is a guy with zero criminal record.

3) black adult family member in an older car stopped in his car when entering nice his brother'-in-law's nice neighborhood neighborhood. "Looked like a suspect of break-ins". The guy is 6'4" and nearly 300 lbs. Guy ultimately arrested is 5'9" and small, lol.
Packchem91
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Steve Videtich said:

Packchem91 said:

Steve Videtich said:

Packchem91 said:

packgrad said:

I got stopped and frisked on the hood of my car in Durham for driving by a crime scene too many times. This nonsense about systemic racism because you know 3 black people is stupid.


LOL, How does driving by a crime scene too many times or actually being in a crime area equate to a black teen walking home into a nice neighborhood. Walking into your neighborhood. A nice one. That is the definition of profiling.

You guys can deny it all you want, but of course it exists. You want to focus on 3 (out of 3) people questioned, that's fine…since it's FB season, what do you think response you'd get if you questioned every one of our black players? We know… there's a reason Dave has been so supportive of the marches that Moore and other players have led on.
But sure, stick your head in the sand…that approach usually works .

Is it bettter than it was when we were all kids…absolutely. Are we rid of these tendencies, absolutely not.
Can that still mean Biden over plays his hand on these things because it plays to his left base….sure he does.

But it's awfully white to say "policing base on race doesn't exist" or, as Cary said, is ok.

Some of you are the same guys who've been crying for two years and talking "civil war" because you believe the government singles you out for your actions (not getting vaccinated, wearing masks, etc), but think there is no evidence that black people are still singled out.




Just asking for clarification. Are you saying ask all players if they've been profiled or if racism exists?
Well we know racism exists.

But PG doesn't accept my examples because I only asked the 3 black people who worked for me and they all had examples of family members who had been profiled and stopped (or searched additionally after stopped) despite there being no other evidence against them.

So yes, I'd be interested....if you polled the black team members on our FB team, or any other FB team, if they or there family members had ever been unreasonably stopped/searched in their lives....what % would agree?


**I get we will build in our own biases on what is reasonable.


I understand the the story you're telling about the 3 people you know. I guess my question is, do you think that these 3 people represent all people of color and therefore happens to just about everyone?

I shared a good portion of my life with people of color, and yes I've heard the stories similar to what you describe. They are real. Some were upset a great deal and carried that feeling with them throughout their lives. Others brushed it off as a stupid one off. And others never had an instance like that.

More recently I've talked to people of color who think the democrats have lost their damn minds. They think that Trump was a good person and happily voted for him. And they also think that many people of color need to get over themselves and take responsibility for their own actions.

I don't think anyone on here thinks racism doesn't exist, nor profiling. I think the issue is that we can't take every example or instance of bad actors and claim there is a "systemic" problem. That's kind of what you're doing with your 3 examples.

Yes, racism exists. Yes profiling exists. (Political profiling also) But, we need to call out the bad seeds that cause these instances. You can't burn the entire forest down. We are a far cry from where we were in the first half of the 20th century. But we are not perfect either. The more we get rid of the bad seeds, the better we will continue to grow in the right direction.


But if it is found in police departments all over the country and really, other then PG and a few others, who is going to argue it is isn't that the definition of systemic?

It's not just Florida, or San Fran, or the south, or Boston…it happens in all those places. Small cities, big cities.
At some point, isn't it more then just "a few bad actors"?

We can chalk up the Floyd murder as a few bad actors if you want, or any one specific instance like that, but when it's just things to bother people to let them know they have the power, etc, I would argue taht goes beyond bad apples and is systemic

Again, it's why Dave and other like minded coaches, are so supportive of these kids using their voices…it can make a difference.

Versus, as Cary says just put your head in the sand and wait.
Werewolf
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George Soros' primary weapon for changing countries to be more pliable to his desires is the "color revolution." You've probably heard of revolutions occurring, generally in post-Soviet states, but also elsewhere. They have names like the Yellow Revolution (the Philippines), the Rose Revolution (Republic of Georgia), the Orange Revolution (Ukraine), and the Saffron Revolution (Myanmar).
There are some common themes to a color revolution which are worth noting for those wishing to prevent such a thing from happening in their own country. A disputed election where there is widespread cheating on the part of the "opposition" candidate generally kicks things off. The "opposition" is controlled by the Soros machine and friendly to NATO or other Atlantacist political organizations. There are then street rallies where violent operatives hide in crowds of otherwise peaceful protesters.
The government then responds and there is outcry from "humanitarian" organizations that the government has dealt sternly with what are effectively terrorists using human shields. There are generally operatives within the command structure who are sympathetic to Soros and his allies in Western governments.
There have been mixed success with color revolutions. They fail more often than they succeed. But they do succeed, especially where one defines success not so much as overthrowing the existing government, but forcing it to accept radical concessions that dramatically remake the political culture in the country. Color revolutions have resulted in what was effectively regime change in the Republic of Georgia (twice), Ukraine, the Arab World, and Belarus.
Steve Videtich
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Packchem91 said:

Steve Videtich said:

Packchem91 said:

Steve Videtich said:

Packchem91 said:

packgrad said:

I got stopped and frisked on the hood of my car in Durham for driving by a crime scene too many times. This nonsense about systemic racism because you know 3 black people is stupid.


LOL, How does driving by a crime scene too many times or actually being in a crime area equate to a black teen walking home into a nice neighborhood. Walking into your neighborhood. A nice one. That is the definition of profiling.

You guys can deny it all you want, but of course it exists. You want to focus on 3 (out of 3) people questioned, that's fine…since it's FB season, what do you think response you'd get if you questioned every one of our black players? We know… there's a reason Dave has been so supportive of the marches that Moore and other players have led on.
But sure, stick your head in the sand…that approach usually works .

Is it bettter than it was when we were all kids…absolutely. Are we rid of these tendencies, absolutely not.
Can that still mean Biden over plays his hand on these things because it plays to his left base….sure he does.

But it's awfully white to say "policing base on race doesn't exist" or, as Cary said, is ok.

Some of you are the same guys who've been crying for two years and talking "civil war" because you believe the government singles you out for your actions (not getting vaccinated, wearing masks, etc), but think there is no evidence that black people are still singled out.




Just asking for clarification. Are you saying ask all players if they've been profiled or if racism exists?
Well we know racism exists.

But PG doesn't accept my examples because I only asked the 3 black people who worked for me and they all had examples of family members who had been profiled and stopped (or searched additionally after stopped) despite there being no other evidence against them.

So yes, I'd be interested....if you polled the black team members on our FB team, or any other FB team, if they or there family members had ever been unreasonably stopped/searched in their lives....what % would agree?


**I get we will build in our own biases on what is reasonable.


I understand the the story you're telling about the 3 people you know. I guess my question is, do you think that these 3 people represent all people of color and therefore happens to just about everyone?

I shared a good portion of my life with people of color, and yes I've heard the stories similar to what you describe. They are real. Some were upset a great deal and carried that feeling with them throughout their lives. Others brushed it off as a stupid one off. And others never had an instance like that.

More recently I've talked to people of color who think the democrats have lost their damn minds. They think that Trump was a good person and happily voted for him. And they also think that many people of color need to get over themselves and take responsibility for their own actions.

I don't think anyone on here thinks racism doesn't exist, nor profiling. I think the issue is that we can't take every example or instance of bad actors and claim there is a "systemic" problem. That's kind of what you're doing with your 3 examples.

Yes, racism exists. Yes profiling exists. (Political profiling also) But, we need to call out the bad seeds that cause these instances. You can't burn the entire forest down. We are a far cry from where we were in the first half of the 20th century. But we are not perfect either. The more we get rid of the bad seeds, the better we will continue to grow in the right direction.


But if it is found in police departments all over the country and really, other then PG and a few others, who is going to argue it is isn't that the definition of systemic?

It's not just Florida, or San Fran, or the south, or Boston…it happens in all those places. Small cities, big cities.
At some point, isn't it more then just "a few bad actors"?

We can chalk up the Floyd murder as a few bad actors if you want, or any one specific instance like that, but when it's just things to bother people to let them know they have the power, etc, I would argue taht goes beyond bad apples and is systemic

Again, it's why Dave and other like minded coaches, are so supportive of these kids using their voices…it can make a difference.

Versus, as Cary says just put your head in the sand and wait.


So, do you think all police officers think this way?
Packchem91
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packgrad said:

Lol. He really said only the black players.

This guy really knows how to prove systemic racism. Ask the 3 black people that work FOR him and only black players. Lol. Science.

Also it's hilarious that he knows that there was no reason for the searches of the family members of the 3 people that work FOR him. Just because they're black. Of course.


And btw, I polled all the people on here. So far, I've gotten you who drove by a crime scene too many times…sure that's going to draw attention, and another who was in a bad place where bad things happen.

And two people who've participated, me and XL, who have no claims. So,,,maybe you can educate me on all the white people who are Being harassed and bothered?
Packchem91
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Steve Videtich said:

Packchem91 said:

Steve Videtich said:

Packchem91 said:

Steve Videtich said:

Packchem91 said:

packgrad said:

I got stopped and frisked on the hood of my car in Durham for driving by a crime scene too many times. This nonsense about systemic racism because you know 3 black people is stupid.


LOL, How does driving by a crime scene too many times or actually being in a crime area equate to a black teen walking home into a nice neighborhood. Walking into your neighborhood. A nice one. That is the definition of profiling.

You guys can deny it all you want, but of course it exists. You want to focus on 3 (out of 3) people questioned, that's fine…since it's FB season, what do you think response you'd get if you questioned every one of our black players? We know… there's a reason Dave has been so supportive of the marches that Moore and other players have led on.
But sure, stick your head in the sand…that approach usually works .

Is it bettter than it was when we were all kids…absolutely. Are we rid of these tendencies, absolutely not.
Can that still mean Biden over plays his hand on these things because it plays to his left base….sure he does.

But it's awfully white to say "policing base on race doesn't exist" or, as Cary said, is ok.

Some of you are the same guys who've been crying for two years and talking "civil war" because you believe the government singles you out for your actions (not getting vaccinated, wearing masks, etc), but think there is no evidence that black people are still singled out.




Just asking for clarification. Are you saying ask all players if they've been profiled or if racism exists?
Well we know racism exists.

But PG doesn't accept my examples because I only asked the 3 black people who worked for me and they all had examples of family members who had been profiled and stopped (or searched additionally after stopped) despite there being no other evidence against them.

So yes, I'd be interested....if you polled the black team members on our FB team, or any other FB team, if they or there family members had ever been unreasonably stopped/searched in their lives....what % would agree?


**I get we will build in our own biases on what is reasonable.


I understand the the story you're telling about the 3 people you know. I guess my question is, do you think that these 3 people represent all people of color and therefore happens to just about everyone?

I shared a good portion of my life with people of color, and yes I've heard the stories similar to what you describe. They are real. Some were upset a great deal and carried that feeling with them throughout their lives. Others brushed it off as a stupid one off. And others never had an instance like that.

More recently I've talked to people of color who think the democrats have lost their damn minds. They think that Trump was a good person and happily voted for him. And they also think that many people of color need to get over themselves and take responsibility for their own actions.

I don't think anyone on here thinks racism doesn't exist, nor profiling. I think the issue is that we can't take every example or instance of bad actors and claim there is a "systemic" problem. That's kind of what you're doing with your 3 examples.

Yes, racism exists. Yes profiling exists. (Political profiling also) But, we need to call out the bad seeds that cause these instances. You can't burn the entire forest down. We are a far cry from where we were in the first half of the 20th century. But we are not perfect either. The more we get rid of the bad seeds, the better we will continue to grow in the right direction.


But if it is found in police departments all over the country and really, other then PG and a few others, who is going to argue it is isn't that the definition of systemic?

It's not just Florida, or San Fran, or the south, or Boston…it happens in all those places. Small cities, big cities.
At some point, isn't it more then just "a few bad actors"?

We can chalk up the Floyd murder as a few bad actors if you want, or any one specific instance like that, but when it's just things to bother people to let them know they have the power, etc, I would argue taht goes beyond bad apples and is systemic

Again, it's why Dave and other like minded coaches, are so supportive of these kids using their voices…it can make a difference.

Versus, as Cary says just put your head in the sand and wait.


So, do you think all police officers think this way?



Absolutely not. I also don't think all people who are in jail are guilty, nor all congressmen are looking out only for themselves, etc.
But I think systemically, Congress is a bunch of self-serving grifters.
Steve Videtich
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Packchem91 said:

Steve Videtich said:

Packchem91 said:

Steve Videtich said:

Packchem91 said:

Steve Videtich said:

Packchem91 said:

packgrad said:

I got stopped and frisked on the hood of my car in Durham for driving by a crime scene too many times. This nonsense about systemic racism because you know 3 black people is stupid.


LOL, How does driving by a crime scene too many times or actually being in a crime area equate to a black teen walking home into a nice neighborhood. Walking into your neighborhood. A nice one. That is the definition of profiling.

You guys can deny it all you want, but of course it exists. You want to focus on 3 (out of 3) people questioned, that's fine…since it's FB season, what do you think response you'd get if you questioned every one of our black players? We know… there's a reason Dave has been so supportive of the marches that Moore and other players have led on.
But sure, stick your head in the sand…that approach usually works .

Is it bettter than it was when we were all kids…absolutely. Are we rid of these tendencies, absolutely not.
Can that still mean Biden over plays his hand on these things because it plays to his left base….sure he does.

But it's awfully white to say "policing base on race doesn't exist" or, as Cary said, is ok.

Some of you are the same guys who've been crying for two years and talking "civil war" because you believe the government singles you out for your actions (not getting vaccinated, wearing masks, etc), but think there is no evidence that black people are still singled out.




Just asking for clarification. Are you saying ask all players if they've been profiled or if racism exists?
Well we know racism exists.

But PG doesn't accept my examples because I only asked the 3 black people who worked for me and they all had examples of family members who had been profiled and stopped (or searched additionally after stopped) despite there being no other evidence against them.

So yes, I'd be interested....if you polled the black team members on our FB team, or any other FB team, if they or there family members had ever been unreasonably stopped/searched in their lives....what % would agree?


**I get we will build in our own biases on what is reasonable.


I understand the the story you're telling about the 3 people you know. I guess my question is, do you think that these 3 people represent all people of color and therefore happens to just about everyone?

I shared a good portion of my life with people of color, and yes I've heard the stories similar to what you describe. They are real. Some were upset a great deal and carried that feeling with them throughout their lives. Others brushed it off as a stupid one off. And others never had an instance like that.

More recently I've talked to people of color who think the democrats have lost their damn minds. They think that Trump was a good person and happily voted for him. And they also think that many people of color need to get over themselves and take responsibility for their own actions.

I don't think anyone on here thinks racism doesn't exist, nor profiling. I think the issue is that we can't take every example or instance of bad actors and claim there is a "systemic" problem. That's kind of what you're doing with your 3 examples.

Yes, racism exists. Yes profiling exists. (Political profiling also) But, we need to call out the bad seeds that cause these instances. You can't burn the entire forest down. We are a far cry from where we were in the first half of the 20th century. But we are not perfect either. The more we get rid of the bad seeds, the better we will continue to grow in the right direction.


But if it is found in police departments all over the country and really, other then PG and a few others, who is going to argue it is isn't that the definition of systemic?

It's not just Florida, or San Fran, or the south, or Boston…it happens in all those places. Small cities, big cities.
At some point, isn't it more then just "a few bad actors"?

We can chalk up the Floyd murder as a few bad actors if you want, or any one specific instance like that, but when it's just things to bother people to let them know they have the power, etc, I would argue taht goes beyond bad apples and is systemic

Again, it's why Dave and other like minded coaches, are so supportive of these kids using their voices…it can make a difference.

Versus, as Cary says just put your head in the sand and wait.


So, do you think all police officers think this way?



Absolutely not. I also don't think all people who are in jail are guilty, nor all congressmen are looking out only for themselves, etc.
But I think systemically, Congress is a bunch of self-serving grifters.


I'm not even sure what that response was. I asked about all police officers being racially motivated. So, I'll take the first couple words as your answer to that. The rest...I don't know.

Anyway, statistics say that police kill 75% more white people than the next closest demographic. While I would agree that profiling does exist with some police officers, could it be that a bigger issue might be police officers that are overly aggressive? Or, do you simply think that everything is race based only?
Packchem91
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Steve Videtich said:

Packchem91 said:

Steve Videtich said:

Packchem91 said:

Steve Videtich said:

Packchem91 said:

Steve Videtich said:

Packchem91 said:

packgrad said:

I got stopped and frisked on the hood of my car in Durham for driving by a crime scene too many times. This nonsense about systemic racism because you know 3 black people is stupid.


LOL, How does driving by a crime scene too many times or actually being in a crime area equate to a black teen walking home into a nice neighborhood. Walking into your neighborhood. A nice one. That is the definition of profiling.

You guys can deny it all you want, but of course it exists. You want to focus on 3 (out of 3) people questioned, that's fine…since it's FB season, what do you think response you'd get if you questioned every one of our black players? We know… there's a reason Dave has been so supportive of the marches that Moore and other players have led on.
But sure, stick your head in the sand…that approach usually works .

Is it bettter than it was when we were all kids…absolutely. Are we rid of these tendencies, absolutely not.
Can that still mean Biden over plays his hand on these things because it plays to his left base….sure he does.

But it's awfully white to say "policing base on race doesn't exist" or, as Cary said, is ok.

Some of you are the same guys who've been crying for two years and talking "civil war" because you believe the government singles you out for your actions (not getting vaccinated, wearing masks, etc), but think there is no evidence that black people are still singled out.




Just asking for clarification. Are you saying ask all players if they've been profiled or if racism exists?
Well we know racism exists.

But PG doesn't accept my examples because I only asked the 3 black people who worked for me and they all had examples of family members who had been profiled and stopped (or searched additionally after stopped) despite there being no other evidence against them.

So yes, I'd be interested....if you polled the black team members on our FB team, or any other FB team, if they or there family members had ever been unreasonably stopped/searched in their lives....what % would agree?


**I get we will build in our own biases on what is reasonable.


I understand the the story you're telling about the 3 people you know. I guess my question is, do you think that these 3 people represent all people of color and therefore happens to just about everyone?

I shared a good portion of my life with people of color, and yes I've heard the stories similar to what you describe. They are real. Some were upset a great deal and carried that feeling with them throughout their lives. Others brushed it off as a stupid one off. And others never had an instance like that.

More recently I've talked to people of color who think the democrats have lost their damn minds. They think that Trump was a good person and happily voted for him. And they also think that many people of color need to get over themselves and take responsibility for their own actions.

I don't think anyone on here thinks racism doesn't exist, nor profiling. I think the issue is that we can't take every example or instance of bad actors and claim there is a "systemic" problem. That's kind of what you're doing with your 3 examples.

Yes, racism exists. Yes profiling exists. (Political profiling also) But, we need to call out the bad seeds that cause these instances. You can't burn the entire forest down. We are a far cry from where we were in the first half of the 20th century. But we are not perfect either. The more we get rid of the bad seeds, the better we will continue to grow in the right direction.


But if it is found in police departments all over the country and really, other then PG and a few others, who is going to argue it is isn't that the definition of systemic?

It's not just Florida, or San Fran, or the south, or Boston…it happens in all those places. Small cities, big cities.
At some point, isn't it more then just "a few bad actors"?

We can chalk up the Floyd murder as a few bad actors if you want, or any one specific instance like that, but when it's just things to bother people to let them know they have the power, etc, I would argue taht goes beyond bad apples and is systemic

Again, it's why Dave and other like minded coaches, are so supportive of these kids using their voices…it can make a difference.

Versus, as Cary says just put your head in the sand and wait.


So, do you think all police officers think this way?



Absolutely not. I also don't think all people who are in jail are guilty, nor all congressmen are looking out only for themselves, etc.
But I think systemically, Congress is a bunch of self-serving grifters.


I'm not even sure what that response was. I asked about all police officers being racially motivated. So, I'll take the first couple words as your answer to that. The rest...I don't know.

Anyway, statistics say that police kill 75% more white people than the next closest demographic. While I would agree that profiling does exist with some police officers, could it be that a bigger issue might be police officers that are overly aggressive? Or, do you simply think that everything is race based only?


I thought it was pretty clear…not all police are racists, that doesn't meant the system doesn't have issues with racial profiling, across the country

Statistics also say a black man is like x times more likely to die at the hands of a cop than a white man.

I 100% believe some cops can be overly aggressive - some love the power regardless of race. That's why it's a problem if you then couple taht with a system that by design looks for blacks more

Btw, to your last comment…there is nothing "simple" about this. Which is why we can't just say "it's not happening, just get over it"

Steve Videtich
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Okay, I'll show you my actual statistics,

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1124036/number-people-killed-police-ethnicity-us/

now you show me yours that say "x' times. Not an article that claims that, actual statistics that show that.

ETA: I looked up those studies and they're based off numbers compared to % of population.
Steve Videtich
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Packchem91 said:

Steve Videtich said:

Packchem91 said:

Steve Videtich said:

Packchem91 said:

Steve Videtich said:

Packchem91 said:

Steve Videtich said:

Packchem91 said:

packgrad said:

I got stopped and frisked on the hood of my car in Durham for driving by a crime scene too many times. This nonsense about systemic racism because you know 3 black people is stupid.


LOL, How does driving by a crime scene too many times or actually being in a crime area equate to a black teen walking home into a nice neighborhood. Walking into your neighborhood. A nice one. That is the definition of profiling.

You guys can deny it all you want, but of course it exists. You want to focus on 3 (out of 3) people questioned, that's fine…since it's FB season, what do you think response you'd get if you questioned every one of our black players? We know… there's a reason Dave has been so supportive of the marches that Moore and other players have led on.
But sure, stick your head in the sand…that approach usually works .

Is it bettter than it was when we were all kids…absolutely. Are we rid of these tendencies, absolutely not.
Can that still mean Biden over plays his hand on these things because it plays to his left base….sure he does.

But it's awfully white to say "policing base on race doesn't exist" or, as Cary said, is ok.

Some of you are the same guys who've been crying for two years and talking "civil war" because you believe the government singles you out for your actions (not getting vaccinated, wearing masks, etc), but think there is no evidence that black people are still singled out.




Just asking for clarification. Are you saying ask all players if they've been profiled or if racism exists?
Well we know racism exists.

But PG doesn't accept my examples because I only asked the 3 black people who worked for me and they all had examples of family members who had been profiled and stopped (or searched additionally after stopped) despite there being no other evidence against them.

So yes, I'd be interested....if you polled the black team members on our FB team, or any other FB team, if they or there family members had ever been unreasonably stopped/searched in their lives....what % would agree?


**I get we will build in our own biases on what is reasonable.


I understand the the story you're telling about the 3 people you know. I guess my question is, do you think that these 3 people represent all people of color and therefore happens to just about everyone?

I shared a good portion of my life with people of color, and yes I've heard the stories similar to what you describe. They are real. Some were upset a great deal and carried that feeling with them throughout their lives. Others brushed it off as a stupid one off. And others never had an instance like that.

More recently I've talked to people of color who think the democrats have lost their damn minds. They think that Trump was a good person and happily voted for him. And they also think that many people of color need to get over themselves and take responsibility for their own actions.

I don't think anyone on here thinks racism doesn't exist, nor profiling. I think the issue is that we can't take every example or instance of bad actors and claim there is a "systemic" problem. That's kind of what you're doing with your 3 examples.

Yes, racism exists. Yes profiling exists. (Political profiling also) But, we need to call out the bad seeds that cause these instances. You can't burn the entire forest down. We are a far cry from where we were in the first half of the 20th century. But we are not perfect either. The more we get rid of the bad seeds, the better we will continue to grow in the right direction.


But if it is found in police departments all over the country and really, other then PG and a few others, who is going to argue it is isn't that the definition of systemic?

It's not just Florida, or San Fran, or the south, or Boston…it happens in all those places. Small cities, big cities.
At some point, isn't it more then just "a few bad actors"?

We can chalk up the Floyd murder as a few bad actors if you want, or any one specific instance like that, but when it's just things to bother people to let them know they have the power, etc, I would argue taht goes beyond bad apples and is systemic

Again, it's why Dave and other like minded coaches, are so supportive of these kids using their voices…it can make a difference.

Versus, as Cary says just put your head in the sand and wait.


So, do you think all police officers think this way?



Absolutely not. I also don't think all people who are in jail are guilty, nor all congressmen are looking out only for themselves, etc.
But I think systemically, Congress is a bunch of self-serving grifters.


I'm not even sure what that response was. I asked about all police officers being racially motivated. So, I'll take the first couple words as your answer to that. The rest...I don't know.

Anyway, statistics say that police kill 75% more white people than the next closest demographic. While I would agree that profiling does exist with some police officers, could it be that a bigger issue might be police officers that are overly aggressive? Or, do you simply think that everything is race based only?


I thought it was pretty clear…not all police are racists, that doesn't meant the system doesn't have issues with racial profiling, across the country

Statistics also say a black man is like x times more likely to die at the hands of a cop than a white man.

I 100% believe some cops can be overly aggressive - some love the power regardless of race. That's why it's a problem if you then couple taht with a system that by design looks for blacks more

Btw, to your last comment…there is nothing "simple" about this. Which is why we can't just say "it's not happening, just get over it"




Also, I never said "it's not happening, just get over it." I have actually said there are issues with it. I'm just not sure it's systemic. To say it's systemic is to say that all officers act this way and are taught to act this way. There are a lot of police officers of color. Do you think they're acting in this way?

I do think some things need to change in police force. First, police unions need to stop protecting bad officers and officers that display this type of behavior. Second, better training and continued training. Third, do away with no knock warrants. Fourth, being a police officer is a tough job. Let's not leave officers continuously working on the street can make them hardened in their view points. Why not move them around from the street, to the desk, or wherever so they don't become hardened in this way.

Thoughts?
Werewolf
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As the sailors of the sinking ship argued about whether another sailor had forgotten to put life jackets in the lifeboats. You guys have got some fight in ya..........
Packchem91
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Steve Videtich said:

Okay, I'll show you my actual statistics,

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1124036/number-people-killed-police-ethnicity-us/

now you show me yours that say "x' times. Not an article that claims that, actual statistics that show that.

ETA: I looked up those studies and they're based off numbers compared to % of population.


Sure. Same source. Rate if fatal police shootings is 2.5x for black over white

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1123070/police-shootings-rate-ethnicity-us/

Now clearly, those are not all race-based. Some, maybe many, are legit shootings.
But that's not an insignificant number.
Steve Videtich
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Packchem91 said:

Steve Videtich said:

Okay, I'll show you my actual statistics,

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1124036/number-people-killed-police-ethnicity-us/

now you show me yours that say "x' times. Not an article that claims that, actual statistics that show that.

ETA: I looked up those studies and they're based off numbers compared to % of population.


Sure. Same source. Rate if fatal police shootings is 2.5x for black over white

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1123070/police-shootings-rate-ethnicity-us/

Now clearly, those are not all race-based. Some, maybe many, are legit shootings.
But that's not an insignificant number.



Again those numbers are based on a comparison to % by population. It's an argument yes, but a weak argument.

No thoughts on my fixes? Just argue stats?
 
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