I've heard the same from the few inpatient docs I've spoken with.Mormad said:
We're up to 135 now.
3 on ECMO
one 25 yo with no Co morbidities tubed and struggling
I know somebody said many hospitals don't do much for these folks until they need intubating and intubating kills them, but here the protocol is to treat all with supplemental O2, steroids, and remdesivir. Some throw the whole kitchen sink at it, but these 3 are always included with steroids being the money treatment. Protocol is for 5 days, and if the pt is discharged before the 5 d mark, transportation for daily treatment is arranged.
MABs are seen as an outpt option, but the critical care doc i spoke with today was very meh about their effectiveness. More sexy than effective. Seems opinions on MABs vary widely.
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wilmwolf80 said:Mormad said:
I see your point, but i would think the rapid spread of disease among the unvaxxed would be a much stronger influence on human behavior than the thought that there may or may not be a need for boosters 8 months later to maintain protection from disease? Doesn't sound like very logical decision making to me.
The primary goal should be getting the unprotected protected, not getting the protected better protected.
This is so true
I do think that the people who claim to make decisions based on emotional frustration over some sense that they were "promised" something in a viral pandemic ain't too bright, ain't listening, or have ulterior motives.
Sort of off topic, but these dumbasses are really lining up to drink out of the same water fountain as thousands of their classmates? Lot of good that mask is going to do when you're sharing mouth germs...
First sips ✔️ #UNC pic.twitter.com/sCRbUUwfRg
— UNC-Chapel Hill (@UNC) August 18, 2021
PackFansXL said:Civ, Mormad answered your question in another post. See below.Civilized said:Mormad said:
To be fair, it's not like fauci, for all his hate, doesn't know the science of viral disease better then us, or that there's anything on that slide that is indeed not a simple support for boosters. I discussed this very topic with multiple docs at lunch today. I was the one guy who is hesitant to get a booster, and i explained my reasoning.
The slide does state the ideas that support getting a booster. That doesn't mean that it should state or be felt to state that boosters should be mandatory or even needed for the majority. It even leaves out at least 2 very good reasons to consider a booster that we discussed today.
All that said, i remain hesitant to get a booster despite my peers' strong feelings to the contrary. If we depended on or waited on pure science for many accepted best practices in medicine we would be in trouble. Most of the time we use an understanding of "science" and a knowledge of its inherent weaknesses and we depend on experience, training, and knowledge to guide us to treat patients the best we can.
But, yes, memory B cells and T cells are the reason I'm willing to bet on my vaccination, despite my likely falling IgG levels. But there's no denying that a booster 8 months later would greatly increase younger antibodies, and that a delayed booster, as we've found with multiple other vaccinations, boosts immunity. The question remains, is it needed in the majority? If any know the answer to that for this particular pandemic that is known for making us look stupid, you're a lot smarter than me. But right now I'm hedging until we know more. And that knowledge is building at an exponential rate it seems.
I know less than nothing about boosters. Haven't read about them much or even thought about them much, so this question is definitely not loaded.
What drives your hesitancy to get a booster?
Simply that it's not clear they improve outcomes for patients of your profile and you don't want one unless the benefit is relatively clear, or that you've identified risks that outweigh the benefits for you?Quote:
I do believe the main reason I personally would consider a booster is the knowledge that waiting months between exposures (jabs) revs up the immune system to offer even better immunity. This is well known, well before cv-19. However, that's also the reason I hesitate. For those same reasons I'm more nervous about autoimmune issues, side effects, complications and the like.
Thank you XL, I'd missed that.
The relatively broad recommendation for (or at least eligibility for) boosters is interesting and surprising to me given how very good it still seems that vaccines are against serious illness and death.
My initial, very uneducated lay-impression is that the benefit of boosters seems quite nominal for most, especially compared to the tremendous benefit of the initial vaccination.
I won't be eligible for another few months and I will be interested to see how the booster piece develops over that time period. I'm certainly not feeling compelled right now to run out and get one.
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I have said this before - many in the media are activists and not journalists. They want him to change his mind and made it clear.Wayland said:I don't think mandates are necessary... AT ALL.Packchem91 said:So that seems like a fair, and expected question once. But I'm guessing our incompetent media group are incapable of adjusting on the fly and asking different questions than ones already asked and answered.packgrad said:Essentially "if you are saying everyone needs to wear masks, why aren't you mandating it?" over and over and over and over.....Packchem91 said:Can you provide some context? Reporters are asking for mandates to be implemented?Wayland said:Holy crap... this Cooper presser... reporter after reporter BEGGING and PLEADING for more mandates.packgrad said:"Mandate"metcalfmafia said:Pure political theater.packgrad said:
Mecklenburg Co exemptions. Looks like protests are still exempt. Maybe for those that exercise, you just need to make a protest shirt of some sort to work out in.Mecklenburg County is now exempting worship, religious, spiritual gatherings, funerals, weddings and First Amendment activities from the mask mandate
— Joe Bruno (@JoeBrunoWSOC9) August 18, 2021
*** is wrong with these people.
Or perhaps, to Way's concerns....they are asking because they actually do wish it to be implemented.
That being said, Cooper thinks they should be handled at the local level since they will be more well received (and they are working behind the scenes to get local gov'ts to impose mandates). That is his position... he has clearly stated it... and while I again disagree, it was asked and answered.
It was a waste of everyone's time for 4-5 more reporters to ask the exact same question begging for mandates at a state level. How these people every made it off their high school papers and into 'real' journalism is mind-boggling.
A bunch of mouthbreathers begging for a nanny state. I'd be amazed if there was a single one capable of critical thought.
Now there's some science for ya.dogplasma said:46 + 46 = 92. Duh.wilmwolf80 said:
Forgive my ignorance on boosters, but if the pfizer vaccine is only 46% effective against the delta variant, how will boosting that vaccine improve that number?
statefan91 said:
Maybe they are getting the protected better protected because the unvaccinated don't have any intention of getting protected?
That sounds like more "science".
Hilarious.
“We asked 596 epidemiologists when they’ll allow their kids to blow out birthday candles again.”
— Anthony LaMesa (@ajlamesa) August 18, 2021
Vaccinate or we will not allow you to use our internet and will fine you weekly says Quinnipiac.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/08/18/us/quinnipiac-unvaccinated-internet-restrictions/index.html
"Quinnipiac University officials are cracking down on students who have not met the university deadline for providing their Covid-19 vaccine information with fines and suspension of Wi-Fi access."
"The university will fine students weekly for failing to provide their vaccine documentation, for a maximum of $2,275 for the semester, according to the email."
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/08/18/us/quinnipiac-unvaccinated-internet-restrictions/index.html
"Quinnipiac University officials are cracking down on students who have not met the university deadline for providing their Covid-19 vaccine information with fines and suspension of Wi-Fi access."
"The university will fine students weekly for failing to provide their vaccine documentation, for a maximum of $2,275 for the semester, according to the email."
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Sounds like you had a really good discussion. I would have loved to have been there to ask some "stupid" questions as I attempt to learn more. As to your two points, here are my thoughts.Mormad said:Daviewolf83 said:Thanks for the feedback. I am planning to wait on more studies and evidence of benefit before I get a booster. I can't wait until they make the booster mandatory. I am trusting the T-cells and memory B-cells right now, until I see more evidence that a booster is needed. I have no issues with a yearly booster, but I think they are really doing this to appear to be doing something. As to The Elf, I have rarely seen him discuss T and B cells in updates in the media and to congress. Maybe he thinks it is too complicated for most people to grasp. I did tell my father yesterday that he might want to consider a booster, since he is 87 and has some significant health issues.Mormad said:Daviewolf83 said:Not one mention of T-Cells and studies. This is some really good "science."Wayland said:Apparently this is a 4 pt slide from a Fauci briefing today. (not for sure so don't sue me)Wayland said:They are in a full on panic to try and appear to do something that 'may' work. Because if/when this next winter wave rolls over on the country hard.... going to some explaining.Daviewolf83 said:Hopefully, they release the data that shows a need. I have not seen any evidence for it yet, especially why T-Cells are not working beyond 8 months. Did they address J&J? All I had seen to date was with regards to the two mRNA vaccines. I got J&J, so I am not a candidate for the other two vaccines.RunsWithWolves26 said:
Starting September 20th, booster shots are available for anyone fully vaccinated and at least 8 months removed from being fully vaccinated.
It is all guesswork.... and "MAY" ... desperation not trials and science.
To be fair, it's not like fauci, for all his hate, doesn't know the science of viral disease better then us, or that there's anything on that slide that is indeed not a simple support for boosters. I discussed this very topic with multiple docs at lunch today. I was the one guy who is hesitant to get a booster, and i explained my reasoning.
The slide does state the ideas that support getting a booster. That doesn't mean that it should state or be felt to state that boosters should be mandatory or even needed for the majority. It even leaves out at least 2 very good reasons to consider a booster that we discussed today.
All that said, i remain hesitant to get a booster despite my peers' strong feelings to the contrary. If we depended on or waited on pure science for many accepted best practices in medicine we would be in trouble. Most of the time we use an understanding of "science" and a knowledge of its inherent weaknesses and we depend on experience, training, and knowledge to guide us to treat patients the best we can.
But, yes, memory B cells and T cells are the reason I'm willing to bet on my vaccination, despite my likely falling IgG levels. But there's no denying that a booster 8 months later would greatly increase younger antibodies, and that a delayed booster, as we've found with multiple other vaccinations, boosts immunity. The question remains, is it needed in the majority? If any know the answer to that for this particular pandemic that is known for making us look stupid, you're a lot smarter than me. But right now I'm hedging until we know more. And that knowledge is building at an exponential rate it seems.
I have seen a few tweets in the past few days (I mentioned them last week) that might support a booster. These tweets put forth a theory to explain why the US and Israel may have experienced more adverse effects from the Delta variant, than the UK and Canada. The theory is those countries benefit by spacing out the vaccine doses by 12 weeks, instead of 3-4 weeks and this actually provided for more robust antibody protection.
I'm with you. I do believe the main reason i personally would consider a booster is the knowledge that waiting months between exposures (jabs) revs up the immune system to offer even better immunity. This is well known, well before cv-19. However, that's also the reason i hesitate. For those same reasons im more nervous about autoimmune issues, side effects, complications and the like.
We discussed 2 things today i thought you'd find interesting:
1. Viral dominance. With the return of rsv, flu, colds, hand-foot-mouth, etc, what are your thoughts about cv-19 (as it replicates into dumber, less virulent forms) being dominated by the normal players and burning out into a much weaker endemic player? I couldn't believe the other guys hadn't really considered the possibility.
2. One critical care doc and one of my partners suggested that one advantage of a booster may be speed of the immune response in the case of exposure, thereby reducing initial viral load/shedding and reducing risk of transmission. It takes some valuable time in that regard for our memory B cells and T cells to mount a response. We won't get as sick either way, but a booster could reduce the risk of transmission even more? What do you think? I thought you would have really enjoyed that discussion today. Right up your alley.
1. I actually read an article a few weeks ago on this very subject. I wish I could find it again, but it talked about how Covid-19 could continue to weaken in severity, but remains highly infectious. Additionally, I posted a link to an article in The Atlantic earlier today about the need to consider how we live with Covid-19 being endemic and it becomes just another disease like the common cold. It brings up many of the same topics you mention. The article mentioned that one of the coronaviruses that cause the common cold may have started much like Covid-19, as a very severe, pandemic illness, and over time and through repeated exposure and viral evolution, it became what we experience today. I think there is a good chance Covid-19 could follow a similar path. In fact, I think it is more likely the virus will evolve to become less severe naturally than it will based on human actions to control the virus. If you missed it, here's the link to the article I posted:
The Coronavirus Is Here Forever. This Is How We Live With It.
2. I agree with the view that having the antibodies present would help to jump start your body in fighing the virus sooner than it would if the body has to wait for the body's memory cells to kick in with the recipe to make the appropriate antibodies. I do not disagree with this view - my only question is how long does it take for the body's natural reaction to kick in and make the antibodies to fight the virus. I saw something posted last week suggesting a vaccinated person could clear the virus in about four days, but I do not know if this was a generalization or not.
One of my big concerns, as you mentioned earlier, is the effect of multiple vaccinations with the same exact vaccine and its longer term effects on the immune system. I would want to see more studies and discussion on the long-term effects of multiple vaccines on the immune system. I know people get vaccinated for the flu virus yearly, but the vaccine changes yearly, with the change in the target. I do not know enough about how the immune system works to understand how valid my concerns might be. The article I mentioned above does talk about how a body that has some immunity reacts to reinfection. At some point, I do believe we will have to live with the idea that people who are vaccinated or have protection from prior infection can safely get infected and natural reinfection may be the best approach. As the article said, we will have to get over the mental hurdle of infection from Covid being a bad thing and just something we can live with as a consequence of life.
I do have a broad concern about vaccines in general and their effect and potential cause of autoimmune diseases, such as Crohn's Disease. As I have mentioned before, my daughter has Crohn's and it did not manifest itself until her sophomore year of college. I am pro vaccine, but I do wonder if a vaccine she received in the past may have "triggered" her body to react the way it does now. With mRNA vaccines, I do believe they can provide a powerful weapon to use against multiple illnesses, but I also believe they need to be heavily studied before embarking on aggressive use. Our bodies are amazing machines, having evolved over thousands of years to protect us from multiple environmental threats.
For these reasons, I want to see more studies, so I can apply my own risk/benefit analysis. Since I received the J&J vaccine and it is still being studied, I will likely not have to consider the booster seriously until the end of this year or early 2022. The same goes for my son, who also received the J&J vaccine in March.
packgrad said:
Vaccinate or we will not allow you to use our internet and will fine you weekly says Quinnipiac.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/08/18/us/quinnipiac-unvaccinated-internet-restrictions/index.html
"Quinnipiac University officials are cracking down on students who have not met the university deadline for providing their Covid-19 vaccine information with fines and suspension of Wi-Fi access."
"The university will fine students weekly for failing to provide their vaccine documentation, for a maximum of $2,275 for the semester, according to the email."
Since when does a university have the power to issue fines? The students have just as much authority to issue a fine against the university, for violating their rights by trying to force them to inject poison into their bodies.
"Ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." - John 15:19
Not according the supreme court of the land.GuerrillaPack said:packgrad said:
Vaccinate or we will not allow you to use our internet and will fine you weekly says Quinnipiac.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/08/18/us/quinnipiac-unvaccinated-internet-restrictions/index.html
"Quinnipiac University officials are cracking down on students who have not met the university deadline for providing their Covid-19 vaccine information with fines and suspension of Wi-Fi access."
"The university will fine students weekly for failing to provide their vaccine documentation, for a maximum of $2,275 for the semester, according to the email."
Since when does a university have the power to issue fines? The students have just as much authority to issue a fine against the university, for violating their rights by trying to force them to inject poison into their bodies.
Packchem91 said:Not according the supreme court of the land.GuerrillaPack said:packgrad said:
Vaccinate or we will not allow you to use our internet and will fine you weekly says Quinnipiac.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/08/18/us/quinnipiac-unvaccinated-internet-restrictions/index.html
"Quinnipiac University officials are cracking down on students who have not met the university deadline for providing their Covid-19 vaccine information with fines and suspension of Wi-Fi access."
"The university will fine students weekly for failing to provide their vaccine documentation, for a maximum of $2,275 for the semester, according to the email."
Since when does a university have the power to issue fines? The students have just as much authority to issue a fine against the university, for violating their rights by trying to force them to inject poison into their bodies.
The Supreme Court has issued numerous unconstitutional rulings of late, including that one. Students should not comply with any vaccine "mandate". If the university has the "right" to require the students to be injected, then the students have the right to decide that all the administrators be required to be injected with 10 vaccines per day, or face fines.
The government is not our God, much less some Marxist college administrators on a power trip.
"Ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." - John 15:19
I wondered if the Union Coubty school board would waver after the issue at Union Academy and then all the other local schools revertingbut it did not.
We start Monday, hope it goes smoothly
We start Monday, hope it goes smoothly
The Union County School Board has voted to stay course and keep masks optional for the start of the school year.
— Joe Bruno (@JoeBrunoWSOC9) August 19, 2021
Here's one for you...
My daughter called me yesterday afternoon. She was complaining of a lower left abdomen pain. Her pain was so severe, she told me to take her directly to the emergency room. Now, my daughter has chosen to not get vaccinated for numerous reason, one being some of her health issues.
She gets in triage and the nurse asks her about her vaccine status. The nurse had the audacity to tell my daughter: I refuse to treat you because you are unvaccinated. We need to give you the shot. My daughter said no! The nurse tells her she needs to get vaccinated and she refused to service her. She told her we will give you a COVID test and you can come back in two days!
Now, another nurse came in and was very different and tried to help very genuinely. My daughter called me, as I couldn't go in, to come get her. She left in frustration.
We ultimately went to a minute clinic. They didn't think it was anything severe as a stomach (flu?) is going around causing her same symptoms. I'll see how she feels today and take any steps necessary...
In summary, the cult of this virus, has gotten out of control for some! I suggest people slow down their rhetoric as it affects some people the wrong way.
BTW, if I could have gotten back there, I would have probably spent the night in jail, last night. One thing NOBODY can do is mess with my daughters!!!!
My daughter called me yesterday afternoon. She was complaining of a lower left abdomen pain. Her pain was so severe, she told me to take her directly to the emergency room. Now, my daughter has chosen to not get vaccinated for numerous reason, one being some of her health issues.
She gets in triage and the nurse asks her about her vaccine status. The nurse had the audacity to tell my daughter: I refuse to treat you because you are unvaccinated. We need to give you the shot. My daughter said no! The nurse tells her she needs to get vaccinated and she refused to service her. She told her we will give you a COVID test and you can come back in two days!
Now, another nurse came in and was very different and tried to help very genuinely. My daughter called me, as I couldn't go in, to come get her. She left in frustration.
We ultimately went to a minute clinic. They didn't think it was anything severe as a stomach (flu?) is going around causing her same symptoms. I'll see how she feels today and take any steps necessary...
In summary, the cult of this virus, has gotten out of control for some! I suggest people slow down their rhetoric as it affects some people the wrong way.
BTW, if I could have gotten back there, I would have probably spent the night in jail, last night. One thing NOBODY can do is mess with my daughters!!!!
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
^Thats terrible. How can doctors/nurses refuse treatment, regardless? I understand the general trepidation, but I assume the nurse was vaccinated....and either way, other than asking for the medical knowledge, its not her business if your daughter is or not, in terms of treating her.
We haven't discussed therapies for COVID in a while.
RCT showing no benefit for high-titer convalescent plasma in outpatient therapy when given within 7 days. There has been small benefit in preventing hospitalizations in patients if given within 72 hours of symptom onset. This provides a huge logistical issue since patients tend to not come in before that time and it must be given at an infusion center.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2103784?query=TOC&cid=NEJM%20eToc,%20August%2019,%202021%20DM226921_NEJM_Non_Subscriber&bid=584891783
RCT showing no benefit for high-titer convalescent plasma in outpatient therapy when given within 7 days. There has been small benefit in preventing hospitalizations in patients if given within 72 hours of symptom onset. This provides a huge logistical issue since patients tend to not come in before that time and it must be given at an infusion center.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2103784?query=TOC&cid=NEJM%20eToc,%20August%2019,%202021%20DM226921_NEJM_Non_Subscriber&bid=584891783
Sorry to hear this Cary.caryking said:
Here's one for you...
My daughter called me yesterday afternoon. She was complaining of a lower left abdomen pain. Her pain was so severe, she told me to take her directly to the emergency room. Now, my daughter has chosen to not get vaccinated for numerous reason, one being some of her health issues.
She gets in triage and the nurse asks her about her vaccine status. The nurse had the audacity to tell my daughter: I refuse to treat you because you are unvaccinated. We need to give you the shot. My daughter said no! The nurse tells her she needs to get vaccinated and she refused to service her. She told her we will give you a COVID test and you can come back in two days!
Now, another nurse came in and was very different and tried to help very genuinely. My daughter called me, as I couldn't go in, to come get her. She left in frustration.
We ultimately went to a minute clinic. They didn't think it was anything severe as a stomach (flu?) is going around causing her same symptoms. I'll see how she feels today and take any steps necessary...
In summary, the cult of this virus, has gotten out of control for some! I suggest people slow down their rhetoric as it affects some people the wrong way.
BTW, if I could have gotten back there, I would have probably spent the night in jail, last night. One thing NOBODY can do is mess with my daughters!!!!
I wouldn't think a hospital's standards of practice would permit or condone refusing service for unvaxxed patients but maybe this nurse just went off the reservation. If I were in your position I'd definitely be pissed and calling the ER Manager looking for answers.
Hope your girl feels better today!
Our leaders in govt screwed the pooch long ago. And now it's even worse. I am trying to convince people who haven't gotten vaccine to get one. It's not happening. They don't want a thing to do with it. They do not trust the government for pushing it, they don't trust the fact it's still "experimental", and now with the talk of more spread and boosters they're convinced it was a sham.wilmwolf80 said:
"Almost all the evidence to date suggests protection against severe disease is still holding and may well last several years"
That's exactly what my physician told me. Jumping the gun on boosters is IMO going to make it even more difficult to convince vaccine hesitant people to get it. If you're still trying to convince people to get their first shot, stating publicly that the vaccines are already losing effectiveness isn't the way to do it. It's pretty much the opposite of what you should do actually.
Now this is not true. But this is perception amongst ant-vax people. To put the icing on the cake we've had people trying to split our society into tribes of vax vs un vaxed. The political theater has not slowed down since last year. There's not much logic at this point.
I would really hope that people would get the vaccine now that we see it's not burning out very well on it's own. The booster talk basically kills the confidence. On the other hand when does this end? At what point can we move forward as a society? There's a lot of greek letters left in the alphabet. Are we going to freak out and stop traffic each time a new named variant pops up? Coronavirus will never go away. It was engineered to perfectly perform as it has... infect, mutate, survive, kill people, and most of all cause chaos.
That's nuts. Sounds like you have a lawsuit you could file. An ER can't refuse anyone treatment. Illegals are getting treated all the time for free. So hell no you need a nice settlement and that nurse needs to be fired.caryking said:
Here's one for you...
My daughter called me yesterday afternoon. She was complaining of a lower left abdomen pain. Her pain was so severe, she told me to take her directly to the emergency room. Now, my daughter has chosen to not get vaccinated for numerous reason, one being some of her health issues.
She gets in triage and the nurse asks her about her vaccine status. The nurse had the audacity to tell my daughter: I refuse to treat you because you are unvaccinated. We need to give you the shot. My daughter said no! The nurse tells her she needs to get vaccinated and she refused to service her. She told her we will give you a COVID test and you can come back in two days!
Now, another nurse came in and was very different and tried to help very genuinely. My daughter called me, as I couldn't go in, to come get her. She left in frustration.
We ultimately went to a minute clinic. They didn't think it was anything severe as a stomach (flu?) is going around causing her same symptoms. I'll see how she feels today and take any steps necessary...
In summary, the cult of this virus, has gotten out of control for some! I suggest people slow down their rhetoric as it affects some people the wrong way.
BTW, if I could have gotten back there, I would have probably spent the night in jail, last night. One thing NOBODY can do is mess with my daughters!!!!
Notice how the Left keeps telling us that "your freedoms have not been infringed with the covid lockdowns"...."what freedoms have been lost?"...etc.
Well here's an interesting opinion piece from the far Left communist propaganda rag Salon...
https://www.salon.com/2021/08/12/its-ok-to-blame-the-unvaccinated--they-are-robbing-the-rest-of-us-of-our-freedoms/
If it means they are going to demonize the unvaxxed and demand that people be forced to be injected, they now suddenly discover that our freedoms ARE being violated.
In addition to the hypocrisy on these draconian measures over covid, they are also lying. It's not unvaxxed people who are "robbing you of your freedoms". It's tyrannical communist governments who are robbing you of your freedom. The unvaxxed people are the ones who actually give a rip about our freedoms, and who have been protesting to end these violations of our rights. These Marxist politicians and their lemmings are the ones who piss on the Constitution and our freedoms.
And, unironically, the Left's "solution" to this injustice of the robbing of our freedoms is to FURTHER take away people's freedoms...ie, by forcing people to be injected against their will.
Well here's an interesting opinion piece from the far Left communist propaganda rag Salon...
https://www.salon.com/2021/08/12/its-ok-to-blame-the-unvaccinated--they-are-robbing-the-rest-of-us-of-our-freedoms/
Quote:
It's OK to blame the unvaccinated they are robbing the rest of us of our freedoms
In a choice between mask and vaccine mandates, only one can restore our sense of normalcy
If it means they are going to demonize the unvaxxed and demand that people be forced to be injected, they now suddenly discover that our freedoms ARE being violated.
In addition to the hypocrisy on these draconian measures over covid, they are also lying. It's not unvaxxed people who are "robbing you of your freedoms". It's tyrannical communist governments who are robbing you of your freedom. The unvaxxed people are the ones who actually give a rip about our freedoms, and who have been protesting to end these violations of our rights. These Marxist politicians and their lemmings are the ones who piss on the Constitution and our freedoms.
And, unironically, the Left's "solution" to this injustice of the robbing of our freedoms is to FURTHER take away people's freedoms...ie, by forcing people to be injected against their will.
"Ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." - John 15:19
Slightly different but related topic, What sucks for me is that I had just reserved at the Blockade Runner for a trip in October, then last night they email that they're reimposing mask mandate. Deal killer, plan to cancel reservations today. I've never seen any pol inflict so much misery on North Carolina as Cooper has.Packchem91 said:
I wondered if the Union Coubty school board would waver after the issue at Union Academy and then all the other local schools revertingbut it did not.
We start Monday, hope it goes smoothlyThe Union County School Board has voted to stay course and keep masks optional for the start of the school year.
— Joe Bruno (@JoeBrunoWSOC9) August 19, 2021
https://www.wsj.com/articles/pfizers-covid-19-booster-shot-improves-immunity-israeli-study-suggests-11629308427packgrad said:statefan91 said:
Maybe they are getting the protected better protected because the unvaccinated don't have any intention of getting protected?
That sounds like more "science".
I don't know why you are putting science in quotes. It has been found in other studies that a booster shot helps increase protection from the way they are measuring it. Do you think Israel is not following their science?
Thanks for the well wishes...Civilized said:Sorry to hear this Cary.caryking said:
Here's one for you...
My daughter called me yesterday afternoon. She was complaining of a lower left abdomen pain. Her pain was so severe, she told me to take her directly to the emergency room. Now, my daughter has chosen to not get vaccinated for numerous reason, one being some of her health issues.
She gets in triage and the nurse asks her about her vaccine status. The nurse had the audacity to tell my daughter: I refuse to treat you because you are unvaccinated. We need to give you the shot. My daughter said no! The nurse tells her she needs to get vaccinated and she refused to service her. She told her we will give you a COVID test and you can come back in two days!
Now, another nurse came in and was very different and tried to help very genuinely. My daughter called me, as I couldn't go in, to come get her. She left in frustration.
We ultimately went to a minute clinic. They didn't think it was anything severe as a stomach (flu?) is going around causing her same symptoms. I'll see how she feels today and take any steps necessary...
In summary, the cult of this virus, has gotten out of control for some! I suggest people slow down their rhetoric as it affects some people the wrong way.
BTW, if I could have gotten back there, I would have probably spent the night in jail, last night. One thing NOBODY can do is mess with my daughters!!!!
I wouldn't think a hospital's standards of practice would permit or condone refusing service for unvaxxed patients but maybe this nurse just went off the reservation. If I were in your position I'd definitely be pissed and calling the ER Manager looking for answers.
Hope your girl feels better today!
I really think she experienced a rogue employee. My daughter is telling me she wouldn't be able to recognize her, probably to keep me out of trouble. That being said, I'm not the suit type person. At some point, this nurse will have the roles reversed and hopefully she will see her attitude changed.
It's unfortunate; however, it's what we have today...
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
statefan91 said:https://www.wsj.com/articles/pfizers-covid-19-booster-shot-improves-immunity-israeli-study-suggests-11629308427packgrad said:statefan91 said:
Maybe they are getting the protected better protected because the unvaccinated don't have any intention of getting protected?
That sounds like more "science".
I don't know why you are putting science in quotes. It has been found in other studies that a booster shot helps increase protection from the way they are measuring it. Do you think Israel is not following their science?
I think saying someone that is 99+% protected from a negative outcome with a vaccine being "better protected" with a booster shot is stupid. But I'm sure some will line up to get it talking about that they do it for humanity and protecting children. While other countries can't even vaccinate their people.
So you believe Israeli studies now? How does everyone feel about Alex Berenson now if we believe booster shots are needed after 8 months?
I don't follow him on any platforms so I don't know what you're referencing or the Israeli studies you're referencing?
Ok
packgrad said:statefan91 said:
Maybe they are getting the protected better protected because the unvaccinated don't have any intention of getting protected?
That sounds like more "science".
Like I said, if you can't get hyped for the Carolina game, why are you here?
-Earl Wolff-
-Earl Wolff-
Same nurse probably nods along without a shred of irony when politicians say "healthcare is a human right." LOLcaryking said:Thanks for the well wishes...Civilized said:Sorry to hear this Cary.caryking said:
Here's one for you...
My daughter called me yesterday afternoon. She was complaining of a lower left abdomen pain. Her pain was so severe, she told me to take her directly to the emergency room. Now, my daughter has chosen to not get vaccinated for numerous reason, one being some of her health issues.
She gets in triage and the nurse asks her about her vaccine status. The nurse had the audacity to tell my daughter: I refuse to treat you because you are unvaccinated. We need to give you the shot. My daughter said no! The nurse tells her she needs to get vaccinated and she refused to service her. She told her we will give you a COVID test and you can come back in two days!
Now, another nurse came in and was very different and tried to help very genuinely. My daughter called me, as I couldn't go in, to come get her. She left in frustration.
We ultimately went to a minute clinic. They didn't think it was anything severe as a stomach (flu?) is going around causing her same symptoms. I'll see how she feels today and take any steps necessary...
In summary, the cult of this virus, has gotten out of control for some! I suggest people slow down their rhetoric as it affects some people the wrong way.
BTW, if I could have gotten back there, I would have probably spent the night in jail, last night. One thing NOBODY can do is mess with my daughters!!!!
I wouldn't think a hospital's standards of practice would permit or condone refusing service for unvaxxed patients but maybe this nurse just went off the reservation. If I were in your position I'd definitely be pissed and calling the ER Manager looking for answers.
Hope your girl feels better today!
I really think she experienced a rogue employee. My daughter is telling me she wouldn't be able to recognize her, probably to keep me out of trouble. That being said, I'm not the suit type person. At some point, this nurse will have the roles reversed and hopefully she will see her attitude changed.
It's unfortunate; however, it's what we have today...
Yep. And when they say "my body my choice". And when they say that we should all be "tolerant" and "accept everyone's views", and that they support freedom of speech.bgr3 said:Same nurse probably nods along without a shred of irony when politicians say "healthcare is a human right." LOLcaryking said:Thanks for the well wishes...Civilized said:Sorry to hear this Cary.caryking said:
Here's one for you...
My daughter called me yesterday afternoon. She was complaining of a lower left abdomen pain. Her pain was so severe, she told me to take her directly to the emergency room. Now, my daughter has chosen to not get vaccinated for numerous reason, one being some of her health issues.
She gets in triage and the nurse asks her about her vaccine status. The nurse had the audacity to tell my daughter: I refuse to treat you because you are unvaccinated. We need to give you the shot. My daughter said no! The nurse tells her she needs to get vaccinated and she refused to service her. She told her we will give you a COVID test and you can come back in two days!
Now, another nurse came in and was very different and tried to help very genuinely. My daughter called me, as I couldn't go in, to come get her. She left in frustration.
We ultimately went to a minute clinic. They didn't think it was anything severe as a stomach (flu?) is going around causing her same symptoms. I'll see how she feels today and take any steps necessary...
In summary, the cult of this virus, has gotten out of control for some! I suggest people slow down their rhetoric as it affects some people the wrong way.
BTW, if I could have gotten back there, I would have probably spent the night in jail, last night. One thing NOBODY can do is mess with my daughters!!!!
I wouldn't think a hospital's standards of practice would permit or condone refusing service for unvaxxed patients but maybe this nurse just went off the reservation. If I were in your position I'd definitely be pissed and calling the ER Manager looking for answers.
Hope your girl feels better today!
I really think she experienced a rogue employee. My daughter is telling me she wouldn't be able to recognize her, probably to keep me out of trouble. That being said, I'm not the suit type person. At some point, this nurse will have the roles reversed and hopefully she will see her attitude changed.
It's unfortunate; however, it's what we have today...
Except when it's someone that the Left strongly disagrees with. Then it's, "We do not tolerate your belief against vaccines. We are going to lobby social media sites to ban and silence you from speaking out against vaccines. We are going to force you to be injected against your will. We do not believe you have the right to healthcare if you disagree with us."
"Ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." - John 15:19
caryking, I certainly hope your daughter recovers quickly.
If you would like to hasten the nurse's attitude adjustment, you could report the incident to the hospital. Unless she also failed to do her documentation, they could certainly identify which personnel treated your daughter and have a chat with the nurse in question. Hopefully this would reduce the chance of another patient being on the receiving end of that kind of attitude.
If you would like to hasten the nurse's attitude adjustment, you could report the incident to the hospital. Unless she also failed to do her documentation, they could certainly identify which personnel treated your daughter and have a chat with the nurse in question. Hopefully this would reduce the chance of another patient being on the receiving end of that kind of attitude.
Berenson is fear porn for the anti vax community.
Im old enough to remember the last 10 years the lefty response to saying hey you don't have to agree but we all have a right to disagree with one another was "Not if your opinion erases or doesn't recognize my rights." Been a couple of years since I heard that one....
Berenson and Eric Feigl-Deng are really two sides of the same coin. Just because one is wrong doesn't make the other right.wolfman18 said:
Berenson is fear porn for the anti vax community.
I'm as anti vax *mandate* as anyone you will ever meet and but that guy is a just a charlatan trying to capitalize on contrarianism. Anyone who wants to know the real intellectual depth of Alex Berenson should go listen to his appearance on Joe Rogan when his book about cannabis "causing psychosis" came out. He debated a doctor named Mike Hart who wiped the floor with his warmed over Reefer Madness BS.
I saw we were at ~7k cases listed today, any idea if this is a dump of backlog as well or if it's sign of an increase?
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