Coronavirus

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Civilized
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In reply to caryking • 12:51p, 12/7/20
caryking said:
Guys, this data is important; however, what about fraudulent billing cases?

As Mormad has said over and over, it's very important from a public health perspective to note the presence of a highly communicable infection like COVID on the death cert if COVID is present.

Parsing "with COVID"/"from COVID" is nearly impossible in many/most of these cases. If you're older and weak and near death anyway and get COVID it's going to almost certainly contribute to your death. Who's to say in what proportion?

Also, presumably part of the higher reimbursement for COVID relative to other causes of death is because the expense of care gets ratcheted up for providers when they have to quarantine infected patients, use significantly more PPE, etc.

A big part of why they get reimbursed more would likely be because their costs are increased to try to keep the staff other occupants of the facility safe from a COVID-positive patient, whether that patient dies from COVID or dies from something else. Their cost structure changes as compared to caring for a patient at end of life due to COPD or something acute but non-contagious.

Fraudulent billing implies that places of care are listing COVID as the COD when the patient doesn't actually have COVID, which doesn't sound like what's going on here. Is it?
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caryking
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In reply to Civilized • 1:11p, 12/7/20
Civilized said:
caryking said:
Guys, this data is important; however, what about fraudulent billing cases?

As Mormad has said over and over, it's very important from a public health perspective to note the presence of a highly communicable infection like COVID on the death cert if COVID is present.

Parsing "with COVID"/"from COVID" is nearly impossible in many/most of these cases. If you're older and weak and near death anyway and get COVID it's going to almost certainly contribute to your death. Who's to say in what proportion?

Also, presumably part of the higher reimbursement for COVID relative to other causes of death is because the expense of care gets ratcheted up for providers when they have to quarantine infected patients, use significantly more PPE, etc.

A big part of why they get reimbursed more would likely be because their costs are increased to try to keep the staff other occupants of the facility safe from a COVID-positive patient, whether that patient dies from COVID or dies from something else. Their cost structure changes as compared to caring for a patient at end of life due to COPD or something acute but non-contagious.

Fraudulent billing implies that places of care are listing COVID as the COD when the patient doesn't actually have COVID, which doesn't sound like what's going on here. Is it?
Fraudulent billing implies marking someone down as COVID when the death was going to happen anyway. Example:

In Durham, a kid comes in from a car wreck. He is hanging on by a thread, he gets tested for COVID and it comes back positive. He dies the same day from injuries sustained by the car wreck. Cause of Death: COVID

Now, all the stuff you mentioned above are real; however, they are distraction to the issues I've brought up. Again, look over here, look over there, look... look...

I'll bet if we look at the CDC or NIH or whatever government agency, we will find they are creating guidelines to illicit this kind of behavior. Understand, I am not making light of the pandemic, I'm just pointing out issues that should be looked into so we can validate all these deaths.

Please show me where the deaths, from the normal FLU, are being kept. I'm confident we have some, I just can't find the statistics...
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

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Wayland
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In reply to caryking • 1:31p, 12/7/20
caryking said:
Civilized said:
caryking said:
Guys, this data is important; however, what about fraudulent billing cases?

As Mormad has said over and over, it's very important from a public health perspective to note the presence of a highly communicable infection like COVID on the death cert if COVID is present.

Parsing "with COVID"/"from COVID" is nearly impossible in many/most of these cases. If you're older and weak and near death anyway and get COVID it's going to almost certainly contribute to your death. Who's to say in what proportion?

Also, presumably part of the higher reimbursement for COVID relative to other causes of death is because the expense of care gets ratcheted up for providers when they have to quarantine infected patients, use significantly more PPE, etc.

A big part of why they get reimbursed more would likely be because their costs are increased to try to keep the staff other occupants of the facility safe from a COVID-positive patient, whether that patient dies from COVID or dies from something else. Their cost structure changes as compared to caring for a patient at end of life due to COPD or something acute but non-contagious.

Fraudulent billing implies that places of care are listing COVID as the COD when the patient doesn't actually have COVID, which doesn't sound like what's going on here. Is it?
Fraudulent billing implies marking someone down as COVID when the death was going to happen anyway. Example:

In Durham, a kid comes in from a car wreck. He is hanging on by a thread, he gets tested for COVID and it comes back positive. He dies the same day from injuries sustained by the car wreck. Cause of Death: COVID

Now, all the stuff you mentioned above are real; however, they are distraction to the issues I've brought up. Again, look over here, look over there, look... look...

I'll bet if we look at the CDC or NIH or whatever government agency, we will find they are creating guidelines to illicit this kind of behavior. Understand, I am not making light of the pandemic, I'm just pointing out issues that should be looked into so we can validate all these deaths.

Please show me where the deaths, from the normal FLU, are being kept. I'm confident we have some, I just can't find the statistics...
Most of the annual flu deaths are estimated since testing rates aren't super high and the tests aren't hyper-sensitive. I believe at this point we are doing vastly more COVID testing in one day than we do for an entire flu season.

Which is why Mandy can use out of context statistics for NC comparing

Flu deaths FROM FLU WITH A POSITIVE TEST AND DIAGNOSIS

to

Covid Deaths FROM ANY CAUSE WITH A POSITIVE TEST AND NO COVID RELATED DIAGNOSIS necessary

To try and scare people straight.

It is frustrating to see public health leaders knowingly misrepresent data. COVID is serious enough that they don't have to pump numbers.

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Daviewolf83
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In reply to Civilized • 1:39p, 12/7/20
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Civilized said:
caryking said:
Guys, this data is important; however, what about fraudulent billing cases?

As Mormad has said over and over, it's very important from a public health perspective to note the presence of a highly communicable infection like COVID on the death cert if COVID is present.

Parsing "with COVID"/"from COVID" is nearly impossible in many/most of these cases. If you're older and weak and near death anyway and get COVID it's going to almost certainly contribute to your death. Who's to say in what proportion?

Also, presumably part of the higher reimbursement for COVID relative to other causes of death is because the expense of care gets ratcheted up for providers when they have to quarantine infected patients, use significantly more PPE, etc.

A big part of why they get reimbursed more would likely be because their costs are increased to try to keep the staff other occupants of the facility safe from a COVID-positive patient, whether that patient dies from COVID or dies from something else. Their cost structure changes as compared to caring for a patient at end of life due to COPD or something acute but non-contagious.

Fraudulent billing implies that places of care are listing COVID as the COD when the patient doesn't actually have COVID, which doesn't sound like what's going on here. Is it?
I respect and appreciate the information and guidance Mormad has provided on this topic. I fully understand the need to track the impact of a highly infectious disease. I also very much trust my other source on this matter and was given some insight as to what is happening in some instances. They are equally in a position to provide information on how Covid is handled from a reporting standpoint. Just recognize that some of the reporting is not based solely on the need to indicate the presence of a highly communicable disease, but in some cases, there is monetary value in reporting it in this way. I would just suggest that this motivation should not be dismissed.

You will notice that I did not call what is happening fraud. Fraud implies you are doing something to deceive without the other party's knowledge. In this case, all parties involved know what is happening and have signed off on how it is reported.
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Pacfanweb
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In reply to Daviewolf83 • 1:48p, 12/7/20
Daviewolf83 said:
Pacfanweb said:
Okay, again...not disputing all that, BUT:

How do we explain the fact that we have over 200k more deaths than "normal" and that # pretty closely matches the Covid death claims?

There's no getting around the fact that we have more deaths this year. A lot more.

Pacfanweb - Can you provide a link to the data or graph source? I am interested in reviewing the data for this report. I have seen mixed reports on this topic with some people saying we have excess deaths and others saying the baseline being used is not correct and the excess deaths are smaller than reported. I really do not know what/who to believe, so I just want to review the data to better understand how they are calculating the baseline and arriving at the other numbers. Thanks.

I Google "excess deaths 2020" and the CDC has this information. Usually the first or second hit.
That graph I posted is interactive if you look at it on the site
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm
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TheStorm
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In reply to Wayland • 1:51p, 12/7/20
Wayland said:
caryking said:
Civilized said:
caryking said:
Guys, this data is important; however, what about fraudulent billing cases?

As Mormad has said over and over, it's very important from a public health perspective to note the presence of a highly communicable infection like COVID on the death cert if COVID is present.

Parsing "with COVID"/"from COVID" is nearly impossible in many/most of these cases. If you're older and weak and near death anyway and get COVID it's going to almost certainly contribute to your death. Who's to say in what proportion?

Also, presumably part of the higher reimbursement for COVID relative to other causes of death is because the expense of care gets ratcheted up for providers when they have to quarantine infected patients, use significantly more PPE, etc.

A big part of why they get reimbursed more would likely be because their costs are increased to try to keep the staff other occupants of the facility safe from a COVID-positive patient, whether that patient dies from COVID or dies from something else. Their cost structure changes as compared to caring for a patient at end of life due to COPD or something acute but non-contagious.

Fraudulent billing implies that places of care are listing COVID as the COD when the patient doesn't actually have COVID, which doesn't sound like what's going on here. Is it?
Fraudulent billing implies marking someone down as COVID when the death was going to happen anyway. Example:

In Durham, a kid comes in from a car wreck. He is hanging on by a thread, he gets tested for COVID and it comes back positive. He dies the same day from injuries sustained by the car wreck. Cause of Death: COVID

Now, all the stuff you mentioned above are real; however, they are distraction to the issues I've brought up. Again, look over here, look over there, look... look...

I'll bet if we look at the CDC or NIH or whatever government agency, we will find they are creating guidelines to illicit this kind of behavior. Understand, I am not making light of the pandemic, I'm just pointing out issues that should be looked into so we can validate all these deaths.

Please show me where the deaths, from the normal FLU, are being kept. I'm confident we have some, I just can't find the statistics...
Most of the annual flu deaths are estimated since testing rates aren't super high and the tests aren't hyper-sensitive. I believe at this point we are doing vastly more COVID testing in one day than we do for an entire flu season.

Which is why Mandy can use out of context statistics for NC comparing

Flu deaths FROM FLU WITH A POSITIVE TEST AND DIAGNOSIS

to

Covid Deaths FROM ANY CAUSE WITH A POSITIVE TEST AND NO COVID RELATED DIAGNOSIS necessary

To try and scare people straight.

It is frustrating to see public health leaders knowingly misrepresent data. COVID is serious enough that they don't have to pump numbers.

They've been doing it from the very start... and for a reason that we all knew from the beginning. Sometime in the future 5+ years from now, there will be data released to show that the numbers were drastically inflated, and that the system was set up specifically in order to do so... but it's going to take 5+ years before someone reputable will have the balls to report it.

Just like somewhere down the road there will be a mainstream media report verifying that this election was in fact stolen, just like people watched happen and said all along... but of course it will be 5+ years after the fact.

And regarding the Senate runoffs in Georgia, the only people that should be allowed to vote in the runoffs should be the ones that voted in those races during the General Election itself... there should not be any "new" voters permitted. But there will, and tons of them won't be legitimate.

Same ****, different day. Just a new target.
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Pacfanweb
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In reply to TheStorm • 1:53p, 12/7/20
Once again... If the numbers are so inflated, why do we have several hundred thousand more deaths at this point then we normally do? Something is killing these people
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caryking
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In reply to Pacfanweb • 1:57p, 12/7/20
Pacfanweb said:
Once again... If the numbers are so inflated, why do we have several hundred thousand more deaths at this point then we normally do? Something is killing these people
The thought of Joe Biden being President
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

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Daviewolf83
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In reply to Pacfanweb • 2:00p, 12/7/20
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Pacfanweb said:
Daviewolf83 said:
Pacfanweb said:
Okay, again...not disputing all that, BUT:

How do we explain the fact that we have over 200k more deaths than "normal" and that # pretty closely matches the Covid death claims?

There's no getting around the fact that we have more deaths this year. A lot more.

Pacfanweb - Can you provide a link to the data or graph source? I am interested in reviewing the data for this report. I have seen mixed reports on this topic with some people saying we have excess deaths and others saying the baseline being used is not correct and the excess deaths are smaller than reported. I really do not know what/who to believe, so I just want to review the data to better understand how they are calculating the baseline and arriving at the other numbers. Thanks.

I Google "excess deaths 2020" and the CDC has this information. Usually the first or second hit.
That graph I posted is interactive if you look at it on the site
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm
Thanks pacfanweb. I am planning to go through this information later tonight. I have followed some of this discussion in the media for the past several months, but never really found the time to dig into the numbers to understand who to believe. I am very curious about the following:

1. How was the baseline calculated and does it follow past practices for calculation of baselines.
2. How are the increases in drug overdoses and suicides being treated in the data and how does does the data this year compare with past baselines.
3. What other causes of deaths might have increased, apart from Covid. For example, are deaths from heart disease up, given more people may have postponed treatment due to fear of going to the doctor or hospital?
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Wayland
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In reply to Pacfanweb • 2:03p, 12/7/20
Pacfanweb said:
Once again... If the numbers are so inflated, why do we have several hundred thousand more deaths at this point then we normally do? Something is killing these people

Note my previous post that the CDC has the estimated excess deaths trend line going down for this year instead of following the trend up which may be overestimating excess deaths.

Nonetheless excess deaths are most certainly happening and a large number of them are COVID deaths.

I wish I could find the information again. There was a statistic on the excess deaths of 25-44 y/o and something like 2/3rd of them WERE NOT COVID deaths.

There are certainly deaths due to delayed care going on causing excess. Despair deaths both in young and old... suicides.... ODs....

And at this point, isolating nursing home residents (who many have a short timer anyways) and disrupting routines causing elderly to just 'give up'. Dementia (non COVID related) deaths are way up right now...

So while there are certainly a lot of COVID deaths it is by no means the ONLY direct cause. The underlying non-COVID excess deaths are getting masked a little by the over-classification of COVID deaths.

Again, it all sucks because a lot of people are dying... both with and without COVID. But for some reason we refuse to acknowledge both.

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Wayland
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2:10p, 12/7/20
Here is a blog discussing just this that I just ran across.

Quote:
In the U.S. alone, the death toll from ringing this ominous bell is crushing--more than 100,000 additional people have died from non-COVID causes, compared to 240,000 who have died from COVID. The average age of these non-COVID deaths is fully 14 years younger than COVID deaths, 64 vs. 78. What this means, is that the actual loss in life years is at least 30% greater from non-COVID deaths, as COVID deaths--2.2 million life-years lost, vs. 1.7 million from COVID.

https://www.thepragmatist.co/post/bad-public-health-kills-100-000-americans-died-not-from-covid-but-trying-to-stop-the-spread
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ncsualum05
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2:11p, 12/7/20
Ironically are leaders and media's coverage of this virus is undermining the seriousness of it due to the "fear porn over the top control the masses" approach. This post has been brought to you by....

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Daviewolf83
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In reply to Wayland • 2:25p, 12/7/20
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Wayland said:
Pacfanweb said:
Once again... If the numbers are so inflated, why do we have several hundred thousand more deaths at this point then we normally do? Something is killing these people

Note my previous post that the CDC has the estimated excess deaths trend line going down for this year instead of following the trend up which may be overestimating excess deaths.

Nonetheless excess deaths are most certainly happening and a large number of them are COVID deaths.

I wish I could find the information again. There was a statistic on the excess deaths of 25-44 y/o and something like 2/3rd of them WERE NOT COVID deaths.

There are certainly deaths due to delayed care going on causing excess. Despair deaths both in young and old... suicides.... ODs....

And at this point, isolating nursing home residents (who many have a short timer anyways) and disrupting routines causing elderly to just 'give up'. Dementia (non COVID related) deaths are way up right now...

So while there are certainly a lot of COVID deaths it is by no means the ONLY direct cause. The underlying non-COVID excess deaths are getting masked a little by the over-classification of COVID deaths.

Again, it all sucks because a lot of people are dying... both with and without COVID. But for some reason we refuse to acknowledge both.

Very well stated Wayland.

This is why I do not take any numbers at face value. I like to understand the underlying causes of for the data and not just react to the number itself. My behavior comes from many years of analyzing lots of data. People must always remember that correlation does not equal causation. Even if excess deaths are up by over 200,000 and it seems to be equal to the number of deaths from Covid, it does not mean all excess deaths are due to Covid. This is how some in the media have tried to portray it and I do not believe it is accurate to portray it in this manner. I do want to better understand the data, so I can determine how far off they may be in their reporting.

Are a significant number of excess deaths "from" Covid? The answer is likely, yes. Are all excess deaths "from" Covid? I do not know and this is why we all should want to examine the data more closely. I do not believe all excess deaths are from Covid, but I do not have the data to back up my belief (yet).
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TheStorm
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2:40p, 12/7/20
Anybody know anybody that's had the regular flu yet this year? Serious question.
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Everpack
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In reply to TheStorm • 3:14p, 12/7/20
TheStorm said:
Anybody know anybody that's had the regular flu yet this year? Serious question.


Chances are slim to none, considering the state is only reporting 13 total positive influenza cases in the entire state since 9/27/20. The disappearance of influenza may be the most perplexing part of this entire ****show.

https://files.nc.gov/covid/documents/dashboard/Weekly-COVID19-Surveillance.pdf?ver=1.0
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Civilized
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In reply to Daviewolf83 • 4:15p, 12/7/20
Daviewolf83 said:
Civilized said:
caryking said:
Guys, this data is important; however, what about fraudulent billing cases?

As Mormad has said over and over, it's very important from a public health perspective to note the presence of a highly communicable infection like COVID on the death cert if COVID is present.

Parsing "with COVID"/"from COVID" is nearly impossible in many/most of these cases. If you're older and weak and near death anyway and get COVID it's going to almost certainly contribute to your death. Who's to say in what proportion?

Also, presumably part of the higher reimbursement for COVID relative to other causes of death is because the expense of care gets ratcheted up for providers when they have to quarantine infected patients, use significantly more PPE, etc.

A big part of why they get reimbursed more would likely be because their costs are increased to try to keep the staff other occupants of the facility safe from a COVID-positive patient, whether that patient dies from COVID or dies from something else. Their cost structure changes as compared to caring for a patient at end of life due to COPD or something acute but non-contagious.

Fraudulent billing implies that places of care are listing COVID as the COD when the patient doesn't actually have COVID, which doesn't sound like what's going on here. Is it?
I respect and appreciate the information and guidance Mormad has provided on this topic. I fully understand the need to track the impact of a highly infectious disease. I also very much trust my other source on this matter and was given some insight as to what is happening in some instances. They are equally in a position to provide information on how Covid is handled from a reporting standpoint. Just recognize that some of the reporting is not based solely on the need to indicate the presence of a highly communicable disease, but in some cases, there is monetary value in reporting it in this way. I would just suggest that this motivation should not be dismissed.

You will notice that I did not call what is happening fraud. Fraud implies you are doing something to deceive without the other party's knowledge. In this case, all parties involved know what is happening and have signed off on how it is reported.

I hear you brother and believe what you're saying.

Profit is a motivating factor that's as old as the sun.

That a mild exaggeration but it's really old.
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Civilized
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In reply to TheStorm • 4:16p, 12/7/20
TheStorm said:
Anybody know anybody that's had the regular flu yet this year? Serious question.

This year, as in 2020? Or this year as in, this flu season?
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Glasswolf
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4:17p, 12/7/20
As of mid last week, my 62 year old sister in law, her 40 year old daughter and her 6 year old daughter have tested positive. My SIL is sick as a dog. All tested positive the monday after thanksgiving.They have no idea where they caught it. If some of you are on Twitter you may know John Peregoy III and his wife. He is a child friend of my sister in laws youngest daughter. They are both recovering from Covid.

WEAR. A. MASK

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PackPA2015
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In reply to Everpack • 4:38p, 12/7/20
Everpack said:
TheStorm said:
Anybody know anybody that's had the regular flu yet this year? Serious question.


Chances are slim to none, considering the state is only reporting 13 total positive influenza cases in the entire state since 9/27/20. The disappearance of influenza may be the most perplexing part of this entire ****show.

https://files.nc.gov/covid/documents/dashboard/Weekly-COVID19-Surveillance.pdf?ver=1.0
Flu season was smoother in South America this year, thought to be due to COVID protocols, than previous years. With influenza, the US data tends to follow South American data.
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WarrenPeace
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In reply to TheStorm • 6:36p, 12/7/20
TheStorm said:
Anybody know anybody that's had the regular flu yet this year? Serious question.


Funny. I went to the Dr with body aches and my kid had thrown up. She said " any other year I'd tell you to hydrate and go home, but since COVID". Didn't even test for flu.
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Everpack
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In reply to PackPA2015 • 6:55p, 12/7/20
PackPA2015 said:
Everpack said:
TheStorm said:
Anybody know anybody that's had the regular flu yet this year? Serious question.


Chances are slim to none, considering the state is only reporting 13 total positive influenza cases in the entire state since 9/27/20. The disappearance of influenza may be the most perplexing part of this entire ****show.

https://files.nc.gov/covid/documents/dashboard/Weekly-COVID19-Surveillance.pdf?ver=1.0
Flu season was smoother in South America this year, thought to be due to COVID protocols, than previous years. With influenza, the US data tends to follow South American data.


If by smoother, you mean non existent, you would be correct. Miss me with the COVID protocols having anything to do with it, though. We can't claim that people aren't masking hard enough or making themselves destitute enough with social distancing to curb COVID, but those same measures all but eradicated influenza.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/09/12/the-southern-hemisphere-skipped-flu-season-in-2020
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GuerrillaPack
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7:32p, 12/7/20
The flu didn't disappear. They are now just diagnosing everything as "covid", even without any testing at all. A doctor will just diagnose someone as having "covid" based on having a cough, fever, or other symptoms. And even if they give you a test, those tests (PCR, antibody) are bogus, and not reliable.

Same with the "deaths from covid". They are taking people who died from heart disease, pneumonia, and all sorts of other pre-existing serious illnesses, and then labeling those as "covid deaths" --- and again, often with no testing being done at all to determine if the person actually had "covid", but rather just by presuming that the person had "covid" due to having a few symptoms. And, as many have pointed out, the hospitals have a financial incentive to label new cases of "covid" and "deaths by covid", because of a law that provides extra money for hospitals if they have "covid cases".

So...when the Marxist Establishment propaganda "news" media squeals about all these "new cases", that's another thing to consider, to further explain how it's all a bunch of BS. A lot of these new cases are just people who actually have the FLU, or a common cold. And, historically, you have around 50 million Americans getting the flu every year. But the commie Establishment "news" doesn't fear monger with headlines every night about "thousands of new cases of the flu!!".
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WarrenPeace
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In reply to GuerrillaPack • 7:51p, 12/7/20
GuerrillaPack said:
The flu didn't disappear. They are now just diagnosing everything as "covid", even without any testing at all. A doctor will just diagnose someone as having "covid" based on having a cough, fever, or other symptoms. And even if they give you a test, those tests (PCR, antibody) are bogus, and not reliable.

Same with the "deaths from covid". They are taking people who died from heart disease, pneumonia, and all sorts of other pre-existing serious illnesses, and then labeling those as "covid deaths" --- and again, often with no testing being done at all to determine if the person actually had "covid", but rather just by presuming that the person had "covid" due to having a few symptoms. And, as many have pointed out, the hospitals have a financial incentive to label new cases of "covid" and "deaths by covid", because of a law that provides extra money for hospitals if they have "covid cases".

So...when the Marxist Establishment propaganda "news" media squeals about all these "new cases", that's another thing to consider, to further explain how it's all a bunch of BS. A lot of these new cases are just people who actually have the FLU, or a common cold. And, historically, you have around 50 million Americans getting the flu every year. But the commie Establishment "news" doesn't fear monger with headlines every night about "thousands of new cases of the flu!!".


100% agree.
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PackPA2015
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In reply to Everpack • 9:06p, 12/7/20
They are two completely different viruses. COVID spreads faster and easier than the flu and is more deadly than the flu. Masks and social distancing are helping, but if you do not get enough participation, such as is happening in my rural county in NC, you get high case numbers, full hospitals, and a higher mortality rate. For example, mortality rate currently for our county is 3.65%. Estimates for flu average 0.1% most years. That is a vast difference.

We have separate flu tests from COVID tests. Our protocol for our hospital system, and most hospital systems near us, is test for flu If you test for COVID. If it is a pediatric patient, you test for flu, strep, and COVID. We are not not diagnosing flu, because we are just calling it COVID, folks are not testing positive for it.

When you guys say that folks are just assumed to have died from COVID, what medical providers do you think are in on this conspiracy theory? Because a medical provider has to sign the death certificate. Do you think those providers are given kick backs? I can promise you when the hospital gets money, it does not go straight to providers. We would be risking our careers, medical licenses, reputations to fake those certificates. Would we do that to make the hospital extra money?
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ciscopack
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In reply to TheStorm • 9:21p, 12/7/20
TheStorm said:
Anybody know anybody that's had the regular flu yet this year? Serious question.
Masks and social distancing have reeked havoc on the flu!
..................................
Covid-19

It is thought to spread mainly from person to person, mainly through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs or sneezes. These droplets can land in the mouths or noses of people who are nearby or possibly be inhaled into the lungs. Spread is more likely when people are in close contact with one another (within about 6 feet). It may be possible that a person can get COVID-19 by touching a surface or object that has the virus on it and then touching their own mouth, nose, or possibly their eyes. This is not thought to be the main way the virus spreads, but we are still learning more about this virus.

The virus that causes COVID-19 is spreading very easily and sustainably between people. Information from the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic suggests that this virus is spreading more efficiently than influenza, but not as efficiently as measles, which is highly contagious
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WarrenPeace
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In reply to ciscopack • 10:58p, 12/7/20
ciscopack said:
TheStorm said:
Anybody know anybody that's had the regular flu yet this year? Serious question.
Masks and social distancing have reeked havoc on the flu!
..................................
Covid-19

It is thought to spread mainly from person to person, mainly through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs or sneezes. These droplets can land in the mouths or noses of people who are nearby or possibly be inhaled into the lungs. Spread is more likely when people are in close contact with one another (within about 6 feet). It may be possible that a person can get COVID-19 by touching a surface or object that has the virus on it and then touching their own mouth, nose, or possibly their eyes. This is not thought to be the main way the virus spreads, but we are still learning more about this virus.

The virus that causes COVID-19 is spreading very easily and sustainably between people. Information from the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic suggests that this virus is spreading more efficiently than influenza, but not as efficiently as measles, which is highly contagious


That's BS. The damn flu didn't just disappear.
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ciscopack
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In reply to WarrenPeace • 11:42p, 12/7/20
WarrenPeace said:
ciscopack said:
TheStorm said:
Anybody know anybody that's had the regular flu yet this year? Serious question.
Masks and social distancing have reeked havoc on the flu!
..................................
Covid-19

It is thought to spread mainly from person to person, mainly through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs or sneezes. These droplets can land in the mouths or noses of people who are nearby or possibly be inhaled into the lungs. Spread is more likely when people are in close contact with one another (within about 6 feet). It may be possible that a person can get COVID-19 by touching a surface or object that has the virus on it and then touching their own mouth, nose, or possibly their eyes. This is not thought to be the main way the virus spreads, but we are still learning more about this virus.

The virus that causes COVID-19 is spreading very easily and sustainably between people. Information from the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic suggests that this virus is spreading more efficiently than influenza, but not as efficiently as measles, which is highly contagious


That's BS. The damn flu didn't just disappear.
The flu has not disappeared and flu season has started.




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Daviewolf83
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12:08a, 12/8/20
Staff
Below are the current CFR's by age for Covid-19 in NC:

Age Range (CFR)
0-17 (0.00%)
18-24 (0.00%)
25-49 (0.15%)
50-64 (1.12%)
65-75 (4.38%)
75+ (12.64%)


Below are the overall CFR's by county in NC, based deaths by county divided by the total discovered cases by county. I would urge caution in interpreting this information. Does it mean Covid-19 is more deadly in Alamance than in Alexander county? No. The CFR can be influenced by a lack of testing which causes actual cases to be undercounted. Additionally, you would have to look at the demographics of cases in these counties to determine if a higher percentage of older people (65+) are contracting the virus. To say one county has a higher CFR because they are not wearing masks as well as another county is not obvious from the raw CFR data.

County (CFR)
Alamance (1.40%)
Alexander (0.97%)
Alleghany (0.23%)
Anson (1.57%)
Ashe (0.35%)
Avery (0.94%)
Beaufort (2.97%)
Bertie (2.66%)
Bladen (1.38%)
Brunswick (1.91%)
Buncombe (2.16%)
Burke (1.51%)
Cabarrus (1.40%)
Caldwell (0.64%)
Camden (1.95%)
Carteret (0.77%)
Caswell (0.90%)
Catawba (1.32%)
Chatham (2.63%)
Cherokee (1.49%)
Chowan (2.64%)
Clay (1.66%)
Cleveland (2.40%)
Columbus (2.56%)
Craven (2.11%)
Cumberland (1.19%)
Currituck (1.21%)
Dare (0.55%)
Davidson (0.93%)
Davie (0.91%)
Duplin (1.78%)
Durham (1.05%)
Edgecombe (2.69%)
Forsyth (1.16%)
Franklin (1.46%)
Gaston (1.71%)
Gates (2.76%)
Graham (3.86%)
Granville (2.17%)
Greene (2.19%)
Guilford (1.41%)
Halifax (1.77%)
Harnett (1.77%)
Haywood (3.07%)
Henderson (2.13%)
Hertford (3.95%)
Hoke (1.54%)
Hyde (2.62%)
Iredell (0.88%)
Jackson (0.64%)
Johnston (0.93%)
Jones (4.95%)
Lee (1.19%)
Lenoir (2.27%)
Lincoln (0.52%)
McDowell (1.65%)
Macon (0.91%)
Madison (2.87%)
Martin (2.26%)
Mecklenburg (0.99%)
Mitchell (1.00%)
Montgomery (2.86%)
Moore (1.92%)
Nash (2.36%)
New Hanover (0.82%)
Northampton (2.83%)
Onslow (0.74%)
Orange (1.49%)
Pamlico (0.69%)
Pasquotank (2.95%)
Pender (0.84%)
Perquimans (1.07%)
Person (1.17%)
Pitt (0.66%)
Polk (2.48%)
Randolph (1.58%)
Richmond (1.94%)
Robeson (1.46%)
Rockingham (0.68%)
Rowan (2.14%)
Rutherford (2.85%)
Sampson (1.24%)
Scotland (2.06%)
Stanly (2.41%)
Stokes (1.53%)
Surry (1.59%)
Swain (1.16%)
Transylvania (1.47%)
Tyrrell (2.01%)
Union (0.88%)
Vance (3.02%)
Wake (0.95%)
Warren (0.93%)
Washington (2.34%)
Watauga (0.38%)
Wayne (1.93%)
Wilkes (1.85%)
Wilson (1.95%)
Yadkin (1.03%)
Yancey (0.30%)

Below are the percentages of total deaths for the flu versus Covid-19 by age group. As you can see from the data, for ages 65+, approximately 7% more people in this age group die from Covid-19 than they do from the flu. For ages 50-65, a slightly higher percentage of flu deaths are from this age group and this is also the case for the 18-49 age group.

Percentage of all Flu Deaths by Age Group (Source: CDC data for 2018-19 influenza season)
0-17 (1.4%)
18-49 (7.2%)
50-64 (16.6%)
65+ (74.8%)

Percentage of all Covid-19 Deaths by Age Group (Source: NCDHHS Covid Dashboard)
0-17 (0%)
18-49 (4%)
50-64 (14%)
65+ (82%)

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wilmwolf
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12:13a, 12/8/20
So, the fact that the flu has all but disappeared is because of masks et al, but those same measures aren't working to stop covid because people aren't following them? Just trying to make sure I've got it right. I have no doubt that everything we're doing has reduced the spread of flu, but the fact that the flu has gone away is kinda at least anecdotal, possibly maybe statistical proof that the majority of people are following the rules.
Just a guy on the sunshine squad.
The Gatekeeper.
Homer Dumbarse.
StateFan2001 will probably respond to this because he doesn't understand how ignore works.
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TheStorm
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In reply to Glasswolf • 5:36a, 12/8/20
Glasswolf said:
As of mid last week, my 62 year old sister in law, her 40 year old daughter and her 6 year old daughter have tested positive. My SIL is sick as a dog. All tested positive the monday after thanksgiving.They have no idea where they caught it. If some of you are on Twitter you may know John Peregoy III and his wife. He is a child friend of my sister in laws youngest daughter. They are both recovering from Covid.

WEAR. A. MASK

WE. ARE. and the guy you are referencing above claims that he and his wife were as well...

But if those damn Republican's would just wear a mask!
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Glasswolf
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In reply to TheStorm • 6:42a, 12/8/20
TheStorm said:
Glasswolf said:
As of mid last week, my 62 year old sister in law, her 40 year old daughter and her 6 year old daughter have tested positive. My SIL is sick as a dog. All tested positive the monday after thanksgiving.They have no idea where they caught it. If some of you are on Twitter you may know John Peregoy III and his wife. He is a child friend of my sister in laws youngest daughter. They are both recovering from Covid.

WEAR. A. MASK

WE. ARE. and the guy you are referencing above claims that he and his wife were as well...

But if those damn Republican's would just wear a mask!
I know they were as were my SIL, Niece and great-niece
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packgrad
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6:47a, 12/8/20
James had drinks with a buddy, that he later learned was positive, for 4 hours without masks and didn't contract the virus. Virus gonna virus.
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Mormad
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In reply to PackPA2015 • 6:53a, 12/8/20
PackPA2015 said:
They are two completely different viruses. COVID spreads faster and easier than the flu and is more deadly than the flu. Masks and social distancing are helping, but if you do not get enough participation, such as is happening in my rural county in NC, you get high case numbers, full hospitals, and a higher mortality rate. For example, mortality rate currently for our county is 3.65%. Estimates for flu average 0.1% most years. That is a vast difference.

We have separate flu tests from COVID tests. Our protocol for our hospital system, and most hospital systems near us, is test for flu If you test for COVID. If it is a pediatric patient, you test for flu, strep, and COVID. We are not not diagnosing flu, because we are just calling it COVID, folks are not testing positive for it.

When you guys say that folks are just assumed to have died from COVID, what medical providers do you think are in on this conspiracy theory? Because a medical provider has to sign the death certificate. Do you think those providers are given kick backs? I can promise you when the hospital gets money, it does not go straight to providers. We would be risking our careers, medical licenses, reputations to fake those certificates. Would we do that to make the hospital extra money?


Stop trying, bud. Not worth the effort.
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RunsWithWolves26
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In reply to packgrad • 7:14a, 12/8/20
packgrad said:
James had drinks with a buddy, that he later learned was positive, for 4 hours without masks and didn't contract the virus. Virus gonna virus.


And for every case you come here and point out that fits your narririve, there are 3 more that don't. As I've stated before, my aunt had it, was around a couple dozen people for hours, close and in an enclosed area and none got it. I've also had people I know who wear a mask non stop and have gotten it. Just because one example fits your narrative, doesn't make your narririve right. You're anti mask, you've made that clear. I personally hate wearing a mask as well but my unbiased mind tells me with a mask on, my chances of stopping droplets from entering my body are better then without one. If it gives me and my wife who has pre existing conditions a better chance, I'm all for it.
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packgrad
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In reply to RunsWithWolves26 • 7:19a, 12/8/20
RunsWithWolves26 said:
packgrad said:
James had drinks with a buddy, that he later learned was positive, for 4 hours without masks and didn't contract the virus. Virus gonna virus.


And for every case you come here and point out that fits your narririve, there are 3 more that don't. As I've stated before, my aunt had it, was around a couple dozen people for hours, close and in an unclosed area and none got it. I've also had people I know who wear a mask non stop and have gotten it. Just because one example fits your narrative, doesn't make your narririve right. You're anti mask, you've made that clear. I personally hate wearing a mask as well but my unbiased mind tells me with a mask on, my chances of stopping droplets from entering my body are better then without one. If it gives me and my wife who has pre existing conditions a better chance, I'm all for it.


It's funny how the post directly above mine demands everybody wear a mask (when everybody on here pretty much says they always wear a mask in public) because his family members got it, and I simply point out the site owner didn't wear a mask and didn't get it and this is your response. I wear my mask all the time out in public. Spare me the life lesson and narrative bull*****
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