Oh, yes you will.waynecountywolf said:Get out of the airports and hotels and travel I-95 east in NC- you wont see as many masks.PossumJenkins said:
I'm confused. Like truly confused. I travel a lot for work..and have been back to my regular travel schedule since about June. Fly out of Charlotte and just in the last week and a half I've been to Tampa, Atlanta, Dallas and Las Vegas. Everywhere I've been people are wearing masks. Everywhere. I mean i haven't seen a single person not wearing one. For multiple governors to come out and say "wear your mask more, this will fix it"...isn't based in reality. If numbers are rising, then the masks don't seem to be working...cause everywhere I've been people have them on.
Coronavirus
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Love this little tidbit from the Kansas study quoted by another poster here earlier...
"Although rates were considerably higher in mandated counties than in nonmandated counties by the executive order"
Percentage increases. 100% increase in a non-mandated county that the virus was just getting started in was probably still well below the total percentage of positive cases in those mandated counties. By not using percentage of positive cases, this one is just pure manipulation of data. Dude just didn't want to tell the rest of the story. Didn't fit his narrative.
Virus is going to virus.
"Although rates were considerably higher in mandated counties than in nonmandated counties by the executive order"
Percentage increases. 100% increase in a non-mandated county that the virus was just getting started in was probably still well below the total percentage of positive cases in those mandated counties. By not using percentage of positive cases, this one is just pure manipulation of data. Dude just didn't want to tell the rest of the story. Didn't fit his narrative.
Virus is going to virus.
So when does end? Who gets to draw the line at how many cases/hospitalizations/deaths are acceptable?
Again, purely anecdotally, I just don't see people not wearing masks in the places that they are mandated to wear them. Between Teeter, Lowes, and the liquor store, I see maybe one person a week without a mask, maybe. To me, the question isn't whether or not masks are effective at lessening the chance of spreading the virus. The question is, if the great majority of people are wearing their masks, and it is my observation that they are, then why do cases continue to go up? People don't wear masks in the their homes, and they don't wear them when they are eating, and they can surely transmit the virus during those scenarios, but if they are wearing the masks everywhere else, then where are they getting the virus to transmit it in the first place? Unless there are scientific studies that directly link the uptick in cases directly to individuals who acquired the virus while not wearing a mask, any other statistics provided here are merely a correlation, and not a proven causation. Simply showing that a locale doesn't have a mask mandate and their cases went up is not proof that mask wearing or lack thereof was the cause of that increase. There's just a ton more information that you need to make that call. Is the increase due to congregate facilities? Is there contact tracing to show when and where spread occurred? I just think it is too lazy to say, the cases are going up, you unwashed masses must not be wearing your masks, so we're going to make mask restrictions even higher. If you don't have the contact tracing in place to prove that transmission is happening because people aren't wearing their mask, then you are just grabbing at straws. I have and will continue to comply with the mask mandates.
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Mask wearing has become a societal conformity. You're like an outcast now if you don't have one on. It's crazy what the politicians and heads of the depts are saying about it. Good lord it does nothing to stop the virus. Neither do lockdowns. If it did we wouldn't be having record numbers now 10 months later. Trump was right that we have to live with it and use our treatments now and of course the vaccines are on the way.PossumJenkins said:
There's a number of studies...one sticks out from '06 but I'm not gonna bother with the time to grab them if one could even find them today with the censorship currently. Or perhaps the Danish study the just came out as a true, control group, peer reviewed.
But more specifically. I'm old enough to remember when the Surgeon General said if on tv. Or it was still listed on the CDC website. Or when even your high priest Fauci said it. Do you think those guys were spouting that info on TV because previous to Covid there had been a mass of studies that said masks are effective?
I wear a mask. I think it does little to nothing. But i do it. Like the OVERWHELMING majority of Americans do. Yet cases are stilllllll climbing. That's all the study i need.
We all know where you stand bro. I'm not a covid denier. One can have rational thoughts both ways and believe the truth lies somewhere in the middle. But keep doin you.
Here is a Kansas follow up. There is another out there comparing that takes out the Urban Kansas mask counties and then just compares the rural masks to the rural non masks, and actually finds the increase % is slightly higher in rural mask counties.TheStorm said:
Love this little tidbit from the Kansas study quoted by another poster here earlier...
"Although rates were considerably higher in mandated counties than in nonmandated counties by the executive order"
Percentage increases. 100% increase in a non-mandated county that the virus was just getting started in was probably still well below the total percentage of positive cases in those mandated counties. By not using percentage of positive cases, this one is just pure manipulation of data. Dude just didn't want to tell the rest of the story. Didn't fit his narrative.
Virus is going to virus.
Masks may have an effect on the micro scale but don't appear to on a macro scale.
(Note: I am not an anti-masker. I understand wearing them in closed confined situations (airplanes, public transport, etc) in the event they may work. But the science is less than definite, and whatever incremental value they may have is being HORRIBLY overstated. I am sick of politicians doubling and tripling down on MASK HARDER and MASKS WILL SAVE US. Because they have no plan or good ideas, politicians are falling back on masks to look like they are doing something. They have become a distraction and are just drawing attention away from real potential focused mitigation efforts. By all means, wear a mask.)
Apparently its not enough that the vast majority wear masks. You must think they are effective as well. Compliance is not enough.
Now I avoid restaurants these days mostly because it is not worth the effort. Even on my vacation back in October, we managed to go almost 2 and a half weeks and only eat IN a restaurant about a half a dozen times.
That being said:
27 of the 121000 cases in NC since the beginning of October have been traced to a cluster in a restaurant (no bar cases identified in that time period). This does not distinguish between employees and patrons (but I would guess the majority are employees). So the solution to all this is to add an EO that people basically need to mask up between bites? It reeks of desperation.
The best answer is to convince people to take the risk seriously and make smart decisions when it comes to minimizing exposure. Everything else is just authoritarian window dressing.
That being said:
27 of the 121000 cases in NC since the beginning of October have been traced to a cluster in a restaurant (no bar cases identified in that time period). This does not distinguish between employees and patrons (but I would guess the majority are employees). So the solution to all this is to add an EO that people basically need to mask up between bites? It reeks of desperation.
The best answer is to convince people to take the risk seriously and make smart decisions when it comes to minimizing exposure. Everything else is just authoritarian window dressing.
I have been eating out almost every day since late May early June for lunch. No problems. I wear the mask to my table and then take it off the whole time. I also have been going to my gym since June... not as often as I'd like but that's for other reasons. At least a couple times a week most weeks.Wayland said:
Now I avoid restaurants these days mostly because it is not worth the effort. Even on my vacation back in October, we managed to go almost 2 and a half weeks and only eat IN a restaurant about a half a dozen times.
That being said:
27 of the 121000 cases in NC since the beginning of October have been traced to a cluster in a restaurant (no bar cases identified in that time period). This does not distinguish between employees and patrons (but I would guess the majority are employees). So the solution to all this is to add an EO that people basically need to mask up between bites? It reeks of desperation.
The best answer is to convince people to take the risk seriously and make smart decisions when it comes to minimizing exposure. Everything else is just authoritarian window dressing.
According to those flat bellied experts... I should've gotten coronavirus like 100 times now!
I pretty much only go to sit-down restaurants when my wife wants me to take her out to eat... 2-3 times a week on average and haven't had any issues... I think I've only been to one place where the spacing was questionable.Wayland said:
Now I avoid restaurants these days mostly because it is not worth the effort. Even on my vacation back in October, we managed to go almost 2 and a half weeks and only eat IN a restaurant about a half a dozen times.
That being said:
27 of the 121000 cases in NC since the beginning of October have been traced to a cluster in a restaurant (no bar cases identified in that time period). This does not distinguish between employees and patrons (but I would guess the majority are employees). So the solution to all this is to add an EO that people basically need to mask up between bites? It reeks of desperation.
The best answer is to convince people to take the risk seriously and make smart decisions when it comes to minimizing exposure. Everything else is just authoritarian window dressing.
I wear my mask everywhere that I am supposed to as well... and I see very, very, very little people doing otherwise... and I resent people like Roy Cooper that act like there is still a significant percentage of people not wearing masks where they are supposed to. It's just a blatant misrepresentation on his part... well, actually it's a lie at this point and he damn well knows it as well.
I have to drive a lot and I stop in gas stations a good bit. I have found that gas stations are incredibly lax about workers and customers wearing masks. Everyone has an anecdote.
I go out to eat multiple times a week. I am in multiple gas stations and retail establishments EVERY day of the week. The people not wearing masks are very, very few and far between.
And what is the average time spent in a gas station/convenience store? I'd be shocked if it was even 5 minutes. I'm old enough to remember when the "science" said it requires close, continued contact (less than 6 feet for more than 15 minutes) to transmit the virus. If all these gas stations are so lax on following the rules, I'm sure there is a litany of contact traced cases back to said facilities.
Pay at the pump is nice as well... been using that little known trick for years now.
Where do you see contact tracing numbers? Specifically related to bars?
https://files.nc.gov/covid/documents/dashboard/COVID-19-Clusters-in-NC-Report.pdfKing Leary said:
Where do you see contact tracing numbers? Specifically related to bars?
We are going into hardcore, full-blown tyranny. I can't believe so many people are accepting this.
GuerrillaPack said:
We are going into hardcore, bull-blown tyranny. I can't believe so many people are accepting this.
Bull blown sounds both scary and disgusting, even for you GP.
Just joking.
I don't think the science says that's the only time it occurs, just that it's a more likely scenario.Everpack said:
And what is the average time spent in a gas station/convenience store? I'd be shocked if it was even 5 minutes. I'm old enough to remember when the "science" said it requires close, continued contact (less than 6 feet for more than 15 minutes) to transmit the virus. If all these gas stations are so lax on following the rules, I'm sure there is a litany of contact traced cases back to said facilities.
I assume you went to NC State and had a moderate amount of science classes where they discussed that scientific findings can continue to change based on new findings.
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I have had the same thoughts of you on the matter. I work from home, but my wife has been going to her office since the virus arrived. She has her own office and most employees in her company work from home. She is a member of her company's leadership team and they and a few other staff are typically the only ones in the building. When she is interfacing with others, she wears a mask, but when she sits in her office by herself, she does not wear a mask.wilmwolf80 said:
Again, purely anecdotally, I just don't see people not wearing masks in the places that they are mandated to wear them. Between Teeter, Lowes, and the liquor store, I see maybe one person a week without a mask, maybe. To me, the question isn't whether or not masks are effective at lessening the chance of spreading the virus. The question is, if the great majority of people are wearing their masks, and it is my observation that they are, then why do cases continue to go up? People don't wear masks in the their homes, and they don't wear them when they are eating, and they can surely transmit the virus during those scenarios, but if they are wearing the masks everywhere else, then where are they getting the virus to transmit it in the first place? Unless there are scientific studies that directly link the uptick in cases directly to individuals who acquired the virus while not wearing a mask, any other statistics provided here are merely a correlation, and not a proven causation. Simply showing that a locale doesn't have a mask mandate and their cases went up is not proof that mask wearing or lack thereof was the cause of that increase. There's just a ton more information that you need to make that call. Is the increase due to congregate facilities? Is there contact tracing to show when and where spread occurred? I just think it is too lazy to say, the cases are going up, you unwashed masses must not be wearing your masks, so we're going to make mask restrictions even higher. If you don't have the contact tracing in place to prove that transmission is happening because people aren't wearing their mask, then you are just grabbing at straws. I have and will continue to comply with the mask mandates.
When I do leave the house to run errands, I rarely ever see anyone without a mask. When I visit my father in a rural county in the western side of the state, I will see a few, but I can count the total on one hand. Of course, I am just a data point of one and others may have different experiences or live in an area of the state where mask wearing protocols and practices are not being followed. From my experience, I can not figure out where people are becoming infected. I will also add, if someone is wearing a mask that is not covering their nose, they are not wearing a mask.
In the video I posted late last week, Dr. Ohl (infectious disease physician at Wake Forest Baptist Health) discussed transmission from surfaces. In the video, he downplayed this risk and said we really need to stop hoarding sanitation wipes and just practice good hygiene, washing our hands regularly and avoid touching our faces. So, if everyone I see is wearing a mask and surface transmission risks are low, where is everyone getting infected?
I do go to restaurants and if I do not get take-out and eat at the restaurant, I will eat outside in the open air 99% of the time. If it is cooler outside, I wear extra cloths. My view, based on the science is that we should not be eating inside in restaurants, unless the restaurant has extremely limited seating and very good ventilation. Dr. Ohl commented on this last week in his video update as well. As he said, we should not be eating inside in restaurants, no matter how limited the indoor seating might be.
A lot of the reasons we are seeing a rise (I hate the word spike - it has been misused so much) across the country is due to one key thing - it started to get cold outside. As it got cold, people started to do things more inside and less outside. When you are inside and not wearing a mask, even while eating, the chances of getting sick go up.
The one place I know specifically caused Covid outbreaks - parties. Wake Forest University was doing well on campus, with less than 10 cases. A fraternity decided to have a party in late October and guess what? The campus saw the cases grow from less than 10 to over 100 cases. They were able to get it under control in early November and guess what happened? A couple of big, last days of school parties took cases back to over 100. Normal students are now gone and the only ones left are the football team and the basketball teams, plus their staff. With normal students at home now, I expect cases on campus to become nonexistent on campus for the next couple of months.
The good news is that for the majority of the semester they handled the virus well and got through a full semester of in-person and online classes. They test 500-1,000 students randomly every week throughout the semester and the percent positive was incredibly low. Until the large parties I mentioned, their positivity rate was lower than 1% and after the parties, the positivity rate remained below 2%.
In conclusion, try to do as much outdoors as possible, avoid eating indoors in restaurants, wear a mask, wash your hands and social distance from others as much as possible. We are so close to having some extremely powerful vaccines and I believe by next Summer, the worst will be behind us.
NC - 11/24 *with* COVID Deaths Update. +35
DoD Reported
11/22(9), 11/21(13), 11/20(3), 11/19(2), 11/18(2), 11/17, 11/16, 11/7, 11/2, 11/1, 10/25, 10/24
DoD Removed
11/3
0 missing assigned DoD (5 missing)
Setting:
12 Congregate, 7 Unknown, 16 General Population
No more dangerous than the flu:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/more-americans-are-surviving-covid-19/ar-BB1biYRo?li=BBnb7Kz
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/more-americans-are-surviving-covid-19/ar-BB1biYRo?li=BBnb7Kz
Quote:
Jeffrey Shaman, an infectious-disease modeler at Columbia University's Mailman School of Public Health, says the current death rate could be even lower than that, at roughly 0.15%. The death rate of seasonal influenza is 0.1%, based on data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
The Democrat morons are the least science based bloc of all time. Power hungry buffoons. Almost nothing they propose is based on science.
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Daviewolf83 said:According to NCDHHS reports, 147 cases (27 clusters) have been traced back to restaurants. I am not sure why Meck health leaders would not know this information. While this case count is extremely small, it does definitely show that some cases have originated from restaurants.packgrad said:
I think they are unaware because there are about 5 people in the state that actually read all the dashboard reports (including present company).
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Unfortunately, some of the people reading the reports do not understand how to use them. Case in point, WRAL television did a story tonight on Covid spread in private schools. As part of the story, they had a live shot in front of Raleigh Christian Academy and highlighted that this particular school had been the site of a Covid cluster and cases. I looked up the data on this particular school and found out that the reporting was correct, but to highlight this particular school was extremely misleading. This particular school has seen seven cases, since they returned to school in the early Fall and four of these cases were staff members.Wayland said:Daviewolf83 said:According to NCDHHS reports, 147 cases (27 clusters) have been traced back to restaurants. I am not sure why Meck health leaders would not know this information. While this case count is extremely small, it does definitely show that some cases have originated from restaurants.packgrad said:
I think they are unaware because there are about 5 people in the state that actually read all the dashboard reports (including present company).
The media really needs to get off of the "opening schools is a horrible idea" message and present facts. I posted a lengthy quote from Dr. Christopher Ohl last week where he states categorically that opening of schools is very low risk. Dr. Ohl is an infectious disease physician at Wake Forest Baptist Health. Of course, WRAL and other news organizations are just working on behalf of the NC Association of Educators in their attempt to keep schools closed for the remainder of this school year.
My wife's school has been opened all year, with the exception of Wednesday's when the teachers and admin staff do a deep clean. School openings are made on a county basis. They are very strict with sending kids home and making them quarantine, even with a cold, unless they can provide a negative test. The administrative aspect of it, from the teacher and principal perspectives, makes me understand why they all want to close though. It's non stop CYA.
It is absolutely safe for kids to be back in schools. Unfortunately the additional requirements of school staff put on them by their local and state governments make it more difficult to do their jobs.
It is absolutely safe for kids to be back in schools. Unfortunately the additional requirements of school staff put on them by their local and state governments make it more difficult to do their jobs.
Daviewolf83 said:According to NCDHHS reports, 147 cases (27 clusters) have been traced back to restaurants. I am not sure why Meck health leaders would not know this information. While this case count is extremely small, it does definitely show that some cases have originated from restaurants.packgrad said:
Wonder if their number on Meck is even right. They haven't been the best with numbers since the start.
Also, 147 cases tied to restaurants over the last 8 months? Thousands of restaurants. Probably millions of patrons. 147 cases. Sheer ****ing lunacy we continue to allow our government to shut down, or modify hours/seating requirements of businesses.
Quote:
Overall, an estimated 299,028 excess deaths occurred from late January through October 3, 2020, with 198,081 (66%) excess deaths attributed to COVID-19. The largest percentage increases were seen among adults aged 25-44 years and among Hispanic or Latino persons.
We are now at 6 figures for non-COVID excess deaths per the CDC. Policies have consequences.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6942e2.htm
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Interesting to me how you could look at this chart and swear it's a Covid death chart. Except it's not.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/68/wr/mm6826a5.htm
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/68/wr/mm6826a5.htm
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Some of the requirements do not make sense. For example, temperature screening. Dr. Ohl said weeks ago in one of his weekly updates that temperature screening is no longer considered a valid screen for Covid, since so many of people are asymptomatic. Based on his guidance, temperature screenings could probably be discontinued. Another one is the deep cleaning. He said in his update last week that transmission from surface contact is extremely remote, based on the latest understanding of transmission. As such, the whole deep cleaning protocols should be examined under the latest science and data.packgrad said:
My wife's school has been opened all year, with the exception of Wednesday's when the teachers and admin staff do a deep clean. School openings are made on a county basis. They are very strict with sending kids home and making them quarantine, even with a cold, unless they can provide a negative test. The administrative aspect of it, from the teacher and principal perspectives, makes me understand why they all want to close though. It's non stop CYA.
It is absolutely safe for kids to be back in schools. Unfortunately the additional requirements of school staff put on them by their local and state governments make it more difficult to do their jobs.
He did say most transmission in schools is teacher to teacher and it is not happening in the classroom. It is happening when teachers are on break or eating lunch and they remove their masks when around other teachers. Transmission of student to student in a classroom is rare.
The phrase "Security Theatre" comes to mind. TSA really isn't very good at finding threats, but it makes the general public feel safer and more confident in flying. A lot of these protocols are similar.Daviewolf83 said:Some of the requirements do not make sense. For example, temperature screening. Dr. Ohl said weeks ago in one of his weekly updates that temperature screening is no longer considered a valid screen for Covid, since so many of people are asymptomatic. Based on his guidance, temperature screenings could probably be discontinued. Another one is the deep cleaning. He said in his update last week that transmission from surface contact is extremely remote, based on the latest understanding of transmission. As such, the whole deep cleaning protocols should be examined under the latest science and data.packgrad said:
My wife's school has been opened all year, with the exception of Wednesday's when the teachers and admin staff do a deep clean. School openings are made on a county basis. They are very strict with sending kids home and making them quarantine, even with a cold, unless they can provide a negative test. The administrative aspect of it, from the teacher and principal perspectives, makes me understand why they all want to close though. It's non stop CYA.
It is absolutely safe for kids to be back in schools. Unfortunately the additional requirements of school staff put on them by their local and state governments make it more difficult to do their jobs.
He did say most transmission in schools is teacher to teacher and it is not happening in the classroom. It is happening when teachers are on break or eating lunch and they remove their masks when around other teachers. Transmission of student to student in a classroom is rare.
However, I'm ok with it if it improves public confidence to open schools.
If you haven't figured it out COVID is 80% mental at this point. The people in charge know and have orchestrated most of this.
IseWolf22 said:The phrase "Security Theatre" comes to mind. TSA really isn't very good at finding threats, but it makes the general public feel safer and more confident in flying. A lot of these protocols are similar.Daviewolf83 said:Some of the requirements do not make sense. For example, temperature screening. Dr. Ohl said weeks ago in one of his weekly updates that temperature screening is no longer considered a valid screen for Covid, since so many of people are asymptomatic. Based on his guidance, temperature screenings could probably be discontinued. Another one is the deep cleaning. He said in his update last week that transmission from surface contact is extremely remote, based on the latest understanding of transmission. As such, the whole deep cleaning protocols should be examined under the latest science and data.packgrad said:
My wife's school has been opened all year, with the exception of Wednesday's when the teachers and admin staff do a deep clean. School openings are made on a county basis. They are very strict with sending kids home and making them quarantine, even with a cold, unless they can provide a negative test. The administrative aspect of it, from the teacher and principal perspectives, makes me understand why they all want to close though. It's non stop CYA.
It is absolutely safe for kids to be back in schools. Unfortunately the additional requirements of school staff put on them by their local and state governments make it more difficult to do their jobs.
He did say most transmission in schools is teacher to teacher and it is not happening in the classroom. It is happening when teachers are on break or eating lunch and they remove their masks when around other teachers. Transmission of student to student in a classroom is rare.
However, I'm ok with it if it improves public confidence to open schools.
Principals, secretaries, guidance counselors, teachers, and assistants aren't paid to provide "Security Theater".
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