It doesn't take someone on whatever board to know we're all gonna get it. That's been stated for weeks. The two important points are 95% of cases are mild. But more importantly. If we spread it out over a year or more...it certainly will allow the health care system to handle it better. But if there is no economy and shell of a country...what's the point?

There were two options. Shut everything down for 30 days and try to recover or all just go back to work. The window on the first option has closed. It's time to realize this is a war. And just as in the other great wars there were casualties. But we sacrificed for the greater good. Half measures aren't gonna work and even a federal shut down won't work in this society. We need to go back to work to save the economy and realize that we are going to lose people...but it's a sacrifice for the greater good.

Ground_Chuck said:

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RunsWithWolves26 said:

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Ground_Chuck said:

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Pandemic experts that predicted 2.2 million American deaths is the reason for policy changes at the federal level. It's not because of a ticker on CNN.

Nation is going to be locked downed next week, you guys really think this president would do that because of what the media is saying?

Some of you seem completely in denial over how serious this pandemic has become.

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If you truly believe that many Americans will die from this, then that's your choice. No way do I believe anything to that happens. You do realize that would mean hundreds of millions would die worldwide based on population? That number makes zero sense at all. We are at 250 roughly deaths. You actually believe that number is going to go up 8,800 times?

Edut to add. Medical experts are expecting between 50000-150000 to be infected by this virus. Makes that 2.2 million number even more unreal. Not to mention, we are at a 1.3% death rate so far. That would mean almost the entire population would have to get it to equal those numbers

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Once we reach hospital capacity, the. Death rate shoots up. If no ventilation is available for critical cases , death is guaranteed.

2.2 million is based on no intervention. Number comes down with intervention but hospital capacity is still major indicator of death rate.

I know someone of the US biodefense board in DHHS, they expect EVERYONE to get covid19. Only question is is it over the next 3 months or next 36 months.

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You've blasted that 2.2 million number several times. You've said people who aren't extremely worried are basically not being rational. Then you tell us you know someone who said everyone will get it. Seriously. It's like a strand of the flu. Not the flu but of course many will get it. You've thrown that number around when there has been non-stop actions to limit it. Stop blaming mass hysteria and actually look at the real numbers as they are now. That is exactly how hysteria happens. People post 2.2 million will die and the next thing you, everything stops!

Also, we are at 1.3% death rate. Ventilator's have been ordered and are on the way. For God's sake, the world isn't coming to an end and this ain't China nor is it Italy. Watch south Korea. That is the closest you will find to what will actually happen here.

Are we at hospital capacity anywhere? Or close to it? I'm not saying we're not. I just can't find it. With that said it seems folks are more concerned about the statistical possibility than the statistical reality.

Good read, from my perspective, from someone with a completely different opinion than the "experts".

https://medium.com/six-four-six-nine/evidence-over-hysteria-covid-19-1b767def5894

packgrad said:

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Good read, from my perspective, from someone with a completely different opinion than the "experts".

https://medium.com/six-four-six-nine/evidence-over-hysteria-covid-19-1b767def5894

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That was a great read, I hate that it will probably fall on deaf ears. I have two kids under 5 that are home from preschool indefinitely and it's going to make things impossible. Combined with still waiting for my wife's covid test results and it's definitely causing high anxiety.

Interesting the Medium site shut the link down

Saw that a company in California now has a COVID19 test that gives the results of the test within 45 mins. Will be shipping out next week.

PossumJenkins said:

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Interesting the Medium site shut the link down

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Missed it before they took it down; what was the summary?

packgrad said:

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Are we at hospital capacity anywhere? Or close to it? I'm not saying we're not. I just can't find it. With that said it seems folks are more concerned about the statistical possibility than the statistical reality.

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Hospitals, under normal conditions, are around 85% capacity normally.

AlleyPack said:

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PossumJenkins said:

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Interesting the Medium site shut the link down

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Missed it before they took it down; what was the summary?

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It's not nearly as deadly as the "experts" say it is. It is being sensationalized by using incomplete and inaccurate data.

Hilarious that Medium took it down. Must control the message. Hysteria is what is important. Down with contrarian opinions.

Ground_Chuck said:

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packgrad said:

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Are we at hospital capacity anywhere? Or close to it? I'm not saying we're not. I just can't find it. With that said it seems folks are more concerned about the statistical possibility than the statistical reality.

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Hospitals, under normal conditions, are around 85% capacity normally.

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So none are facing bed and supply shortages yet like we are continuously told is happening?

Total deaths in the country fell again yesterday.

AlleyPack said:

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PossumJenkins said:

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Interesting the Medium site shut the link down

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Missed it before they took it down; what was the summary?

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I think I found the article on another site. Here, it's titled "Covid-19: Evidence Over Hysteria"

https://www.zerohedge.com/health/covid-19-evidence-over-hysteria



By the way, I've visited this ZeroHedge website for years. It is a very good website for "alternative" (i.e., truthful) information, countering Establishment media lies and propaganda.

packgrad said:

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Ground_Chuck said:

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packgrad said:

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Are we at hospital capacity anywhere? Or close to it? I'm not saying we're not. I just can't find it. With that said it seems folks are more concerned about the statistical possibility than the statistical reality.

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Hospitals, under normal conditions, are around 85% capacity normally.

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So none are facing bed and supply shortages yet like we are continuously told is happening?

Total deaths in the country fell again yesterday.

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There was a USA Today article yesterday about a number of major hospitals across the country still performing elective surgeries.

Ron Paul is calling the coronavirus threat a hoax:

Ron Paul: "People should ask themselves whether this coronavirus 'pandemic' could be a big hoax"
https://www.salon.com/2020/03/16/ron-paul-people-should-ask-themselves-whether-this-coronavirus-pandemic-could-be-a-big-hoax_partner/

" Fauci is all over the media, serving up outright falsehoods to stir up even more panic. He testified to Congress that the death rate for the coronavirus is ten times that of the seasonal flu, a claim without any scientific basis," Paul wrote. "

Exactly. Utter horse *****

Ground_Chuck said:

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packgrad said:

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Are we at hospital capacity anywhere? Or close to it? I'm not saying we're not. I just can't find it. With that said it seems folks are more concerned about the statistical possibility than the statistical reality.

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Hospitals, under normal conditions, are around 85% capacity normally.

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Actually they are not. Hospitals normally run between 60-65% capacity.

There is a big split among Americans about whether coronavirus is a real threat, or being blown out of proportion.

This poll conducted by NPR and PBS shows that 50% of Americans trust what the "News Media" is saying about coronavirus, and 47% do not trust them.

https://www.npr.org/2020/03/17/816680033/poll-americans-dont-trust-what-they-re-hearing-from-trump-on-coronavirus

The poll found that 56% percent of Americans believe coronavirus is a "real threat", while 38% of Americans believe it is "blown out of proportion".

Things are starting to get very concerning, and continue to escalate (in terms of lockdowns), in spite of the fact that the number of cases and deaths remain very low. Just in the past few days the Pennsylvania governor enacted a lockdown of all "non-essential" businesses. I think California and New York had already enacted similar measures a few days earlier. I've seen rumors that Ohio will be next to enact this. North Carolina might not be far behind. With this, you will still be able to travel the roads and travel freely to wherever you want....and gas stations, grocery stores, and restaurants (for take-out) will still be open. But all your "non-essential" businesses (engineering/accounting firms, clothing stores, etc) will be forced to shut down.

Beyond that, it appears that the next step that is planned is what you might call a "total lockdown" or "forced quarantine" -- where you are ordered to stay in your house for most of the time, with only limited allowances to travel, such as to the grocery store once a week. There is "chatter" that California is about to announce such a measure in the next few days. Under such an order, you will not be able to travel freely, and there will probably be some kind of curfew preventing people from being out travelling during certain hours. Those travelling on the roads will need documentation to show law enforcement that they are allowed to travel. There are many people from various states (who work at "essential" jobs) talking on the internet right now about how they have already received letters from their employers to show to law enforcement in the event that such a lockdown is enacted in the very near future.

There are other very concerning things going on, in terms of government abuse of power and erosion of civil liberties. I believe this was all a pre-planned agenda. There are also rumors that large scale blackouts (power outages) are planned and are coming.

There is also the larger economic catastrophe that is coming over the next few weeks/months if these lockdowns continue for a long time. We could see a depression the likes of which has not been seen since the Great Depression. Food shortages could be a real possibility.

Not trying to be a fear-mongerer. But people should be prepared for the worst. Might want to plant a garden this spring, in case of food shortages. And have a way to get clean water (or filter it), in case you can't get water in the event of a power outage.

Numbers our of NY today show the number of new cases has decrease over the past couple of days. Not going up near as much day over day. They are almost getting 75k doses of the malaria and zpack medicine .

Steve Williams said:

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Man, the cynical, conspiracy theory, black helicopter side of me can't help but at least ponder the possibility this entire virus, ensuing chaos and impending economic collapse was concocted in a Chinese government office somewhere.

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It could be... you never know.
But if so, I hope they also considered the possibility of us breaking our (heavy) reliance on China-made products moving forward.

Because if that happens it will hurt them in the future, as much as we're hurting (economically) now.

So far, death rate for the world is 4.3% and for the USA it is 1.2%

RunsWithWolves26 said:

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So far, death rate for the world is 4.3% and for the USA it is 1.2%

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Are these numbers based upon number of cases confirmed via testing? Not saying they are or aren't or questioning the data you provided. Just genuinely asking.

As I understand, when they calculate the death rate for the "regular" flu, for instance, they base that on an "estimate" of the total number of flu infections. They obviously don't test everyone for the flu who gets it.

Anyways....if they were to base the death rate of coronovirus on an estimate of how many people got it, I presume the death rate could be much, much lower....because who knows how many people have actually gotten it. It could be 50-100 times as many people as have been confirmed via testing.

RunsWithWolves26 said:

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So far, death rate for the world is 4.3% and for the USA it is 1.2%

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But until real statistical modelling is done to determine how prevalent the virus actual is, these "Total Cases" and "Death Rate" numbers mean nothing. Raw numbers of deaths may have some value, but there has been so little testing done (unless you are super rich and well connected or massively ill) how can we trust the actual numbers.

Take a few thousand tests and do some random samples to figure out what the numbers ACTUALLY are, not the latest number of positive tests (which is a useless number).

EDIT: I am also not saying don't prepare. But mobilize with a purpose. Actually understand what you are up against instead of guess.

GuerrillaPack said:

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Ron Paul is calling the coronavirus threat a hoax:

Ron Paul: "People should ask themselves whether this coronavirus 'pandemic' could be a big hoax"
https://www.salon.com/2020/03/16/ron-paul-people-should-ask-themselves-whether-this-coronavirus-pandemic-could-be-a-big-hoax_partner/

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He should have told his son that it's a hoax.

GuerrillaPack said:

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RunsWithWolves26 said:

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So far, death rate for the world is 4.3% and for the USA it is 1.2%

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Are these numbers based upon number of cases confirmed via testing? Not saying they are or aren't or questioning the data you provided. Just genuinely asking.

As I understand, when they calculate the death rate for the "regular" flu, for instance, they base that on an "estimate" of the total number of flu infections. They obviously don't test everyone for the flu who gets it.

Anyways....if they were to base the death rate of coronovirus on an estimate of how many people got it, I presume the death rate could be much, much lower....because who knows how many people have actually gotten it. It could be 50-100 times as many people as have been confirmed via testing.

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Based on the number of confirmed cases for date.

Ground_Chuck said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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Ron Paul is calling the coronavirus threat a hoax:

Ron Paul: "People should ask themselves whether this coronavirus 'pandemic' could be a big hoax"
https://www.salon.com/2020/03/16/ron-paul-people-should-ask-themselves-whether-this-coronavirus-pandemic-could-be-a-big-hoax_partner/

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He should have told his son that it's a hoax.

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Don't believe he called the coronavirus a hoax. Just the media hype it is getting. Much like 2.2 million Americans will die and hospitals are at 85% capacity normally. Basically, I believe he is saying the made up, overhyped media reports are a hoax.

I wonder if there is any way to tell if the increase in covid19 deaths has had a negative effect on flu deaths?

I say that with this anecdotal evidence. My grandmother passed away two weeks ago today. She was 82. She was also obese and diabetic and had not taken care of herself at all since my grandfather passed several years ago. She lived with an aunt who works at a dentist office. Both of them woke up four weeks prior to her death with a cold. Five days later she was admitted to the hospital for dehydration and the flu. A week later she was moved to a rehab facility at a local nursing home. A week later she was moved to their hospice care and two days later she passed. Her cause of death? Pneumonia.

Everpack said:

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I wonder if there is any way to tell if the increase in covid19 deaths has had a negative effect on flu deaths?

I say that with this anecdotal evidence. My grandmother passed away two weeks ago today. She was 82. She was also obese and diabetic and had not taken care of herself at all since my grandfather passed several years ago. She lived with an aunt who works at a dentist office. Both of them woke up four weeks prior to her death with a cold. Five days later she was admitted to the hospital for dehydration and the flu. A week later she was moved to a rehab facility at a local nursing home. A week later she was moved to their hospice care and two days later she passed. Her cause of death? Pneumonia.

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Sorry to hear about your loss. My grandma is in a nursing home and I'm truly worried about her

Steve Williams said:

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Man, the cynical, conspiracy theory, black helicopter side of me can't help but at least ponder the possibility this entire virus, ensuing chaos and impending economic collapse was concocted in a Chinese government office somewhere.

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Or even concocted (in concert with China) by enemies of the USA that are a little closer to home. And even controlling the U.S. Govt. There has been an agenda for a long time (over 100 years) to destroy the United States and all Western nations (and especially the Bill of Rights and freedoms under the Constitution), and bring totalitarianism to the United States.

Communism is one manifestation of this agenda. Of course China is a communist state. But Marxism-communism is alive and well and well infested INSIDE the Western nations, undermining and destroying them from within.

I find it peculiar that it seems that almost exclusively Western nations are being hit with "coronavirus" and the ensuing lockdowns and hysteria - outside of China itself. Of course many non-western nations are being impacted. But it appears the Western nations are taking the biggest hit.

burnbarn said:

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• Confirmed cases in NC spiked 5 x last week alone with still limited testing.. does it go 5x this coming week?
• There is no vaccine for this..
• It has been fully disproved the virus was engineered.
• At this moment our curve is steeper than Italy's

Please take this seriously.

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What is important is the real death rate, which is not yet been accurately determined. Not the number of cases. If, hypothetically, the true death rate of coronavirus is about the same as the common flu....then there is no reason to be afraid. Around 50-60 million Americans get the flu each year. But that's not a major concern, because the death rate is low.

burnbarn said:

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• Confirmed cases in NC spiked 5 x last week alone with still limited testing.. does it go 5x this coming week?
• There is no vaccine for this..
• It has been fully disproved the virus was engineered.
• At this moment our curve is steeper than Italy's

Please take this seriously.

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Our curve may be steeper. We have a few hundred million more people then Italy. Italy and the USA had their first confirmed case one day apart. Look at Italy's death rate and at the USA death rate. Does it mean I am not taking it seriously? Nope. Just staring you are comparing a country with Italy's population to one like the USA. We also took preventative measures far before them. Another thing that the experts spoke about today was Italy's age of population and the amount of pollution in the northern part of the country of Italy where the majority of cases have been found.