I mean don't get me wrong, there are people wearing masks here, but it is no more, no less than it has been all summer. I don't look at someone wearing a mask any differently than I do someone not wearing one. Funny how that works for some, huh?
Coronavirus
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Last: 1 day ago by Werewolf
Why do we need therapeutics? Because there's an assload of letters left in the greek alphabet. Vaccines aren't full proof and as time goes on they'll become less so.Civilized said:caryking said:ncsualum05 said:It's a great question. The answer is that we cannot. Because no matter what mandates come down and no matter what politicians or TV doctors say this virus cannot be stopped. So we can keep on grinding away at life trying to slow it down. The vaccine technology was huge and I've been a proponent for getting it. As far as I'm concerned it's about the only thing that has been done remotely right in the last 18 months.Glasswolf said:
People die every day. How do we stop people dying from Covid and get back to normal life? My daughter is 28, never smoked and no health issues. She has Covid and is being admitted to the hospital. How do we stop this?
But if we can do amazing things with technology and vaccines particularly with speed and trials than why have we not gotten a drug treatment to help ease the pain a bit for those that inevitably get sick from it? I think that is actually a better question.
Also let us not forget the true motives that decide things on a massive scale go back to money. The vaccines are great and we needed them but there was definitely some wealth created for the big dawgs at Pfizer, Moderna, and the like. So where is big pharma on treatments.... my guess is a lucrative enough deal hasn't come along yet.
Pfizer announced a therapeutic several weeks ago. In fact, Fauci was touting its possibilities in the media already!
With the therapeutics we have now that are working, the only reason for not pushing them is: well, follow the money!!!
Why would we 'push' therapeutics when we've got multiple vaccines?
That's like having Lebron and Anthony Davis on your team but pushing for Malik Monk to be featured more in the offense.
(That analogy is for Lebron superfan packgrad)
ncsualum05 said:Why do we need therapeutics? Because there's an assload of letters left in the greek alphabet. Vaccines aren't full proof and as time goes on they'll become less so.Civilized said:caryking said:ncsualum05 said:It's a great question. The answer is that we cannot. Because no matter what mandates come down and no matter what politicians or TV doctors say this virus cannot be stopped. So we can keep on grinding away at life trying to slow it down. The vaccine technology was huge and I've been a proponent for getting it. As far as I'm concerned it's about the only thing that has been done remotely right in the last 18 months.Glasswolf said:
People die every day. How do we stop people dying from Covid and get back to normal life? My daughter is 28, never smoked and no health issues. She has Covid and is being admitted to the hospital. How do we stop this?
But if we can do amazing things with technology and vaccines particularly with speed and trials than why have we not gotten a drug treatment to help ease the pain a bit for those that inevitably get sick from it? I think that is actually a better question.
Also let us not forget the true motives that decide things on a massive scale go back to money. The vaccines are great and we needed them but there was definitely some wealth created for the big dawgs at Pfizer, Moderna, and the like. So where is big pharma on treatments.... my guess is a lucrative enough deal hasn't come along yet.
Pfizer announced a therapeutic several weeks ago. In fact, Fauci was touting its possibilities in the media already!
With the therapeutics we have now that are working, the only reason for not pushing them is: well, follow the money!!!
Why would we 'push' therapeutics when we've got multiple vaccines?
That's like having Lebron and Anthony Davis on your team but pushing for Malik Monk to be featured more in the offense.
(That analogy is for Lebron superfan packgrad)
Nobody said we don't need therapeutics.
Nobody said we need government overreach either but you and your MARXIST/COMMUNIST comrades damn sure don't seem to care about that do you?Civilized said:ncsualum05 said:Why do we need therapeutics? Because there's an assload of letters left in the greek alphabet. Vaccines aren't full proof and as time goes on they'll become less so.Civilized said:caryking said:ncsualum05 said:It's a great question. The answer is that we cannot. Because no matter what mandates come down and no matter what politicians or TV doctors say this virus cannot be stopped. So we can keep on grinding away at life trying to slow it down. The vaccine technology was huge and I've been a proponent for getting it. As far as I'm concerned it's about the only thing that has been done remotely right in the last 18 months.Glasswolf said:
People die every day. How do we stop people dying from Covid and get back to normal life? My daughter is 28, never smoked and no health issues. She has Covid and is being admitted to the hospital. How do we stop this?
But if we can do amazing things with technology and vaccines particularly with speed and trials than why have we not gotten a drug treatment to help ease the pain a bit for those that inevitably get sick from it? I think that is actually a better question.
Also let us not forget the true motives that decide things on a massive scale go back to money. The vaccines are great and we needed them but there was definitely some wealth created for the big dawgs at Pfizer, Moderna, and the like. So where is big pharma on treatments.... my guess is a lucrative enough deal hasn't come along yet.
Pfizer announced a therapeutic several weeks ago. In fact, Fauci was touting its possibilities in the media already!
With the therapeutics we have now that are working, the only reason for not pushing them is: well, follow the money!!!
Why would we 'push' therapeutics when we've got multiple vaccines?
That's like having Lebron and Anthony Davis on your team but pushing for Malik Monk to be featured more in the offense.
(That analogy is for Lebron superfan packgrad)
Nobody said we don't need therapeutics.
And like I have said for months... the "deadliest" of the variants will come about this time next year. With your MSM overlords that lead you and your comrades around like mindless sheep spouting off how deadly it is and how everyone must vote by mail the attempt to steal another election will destroy what is left of this country.
Great job lefties...great job.
Big Bad Wolf. OG...2002
"The Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
- Thomas Jefferson
"The Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
- Thomas Jefferson
Disclaimer, I am not advocating the use of Ivermectin for the treatment of Covid. People should only take proven treatments approved by their care providers.
I do want to point out that there is a form of that medicine that is approved for human use, and I know this because my business partner was prescribed it about ten years ago after getting a subcutaneous worm infection that rarely infects humans, that doctors thought he got from cat feces in sand that got in an open cut on his leg. They tried multiple other medicines over a period of several months before getting to that one and finally getting rid of the infection.
That doesn't mean it does anything for Covid, but it can be used in humans for other things. That doesn't get the same reaction as calling it a horse pill I suppose.
I do want to point out that there is a form of that medicine that is approved for human use, and I know this because my business partner was prescribed it about ten years ago after getting a subcutaneous worm infection that rarely infects humans, that doctors thought he got from cat feces in sand that got in an open cut on his leg. They tried multiple other medicines over a period of several months before getting to that one and finally getting rid of the infection.
That doesn't mean it does anything for Covid, but it can be used in humans for other things. That doesn't get the same reaction as calling it a horse pill I suppose.
Just a guy on the sunshine squad.
Interesting....I went to a dermatologist office earlier this week, and they still required masks in common areas. All the staff had them on. After Wayland had indicated that there had been a gov edict for medical offices to wear them that expired recently, I was interested to see how they handled, but no real change.TheStorm said:
I almost forgot. Went to my primary care provider yesterday for my three (3) month maintenance visit and did not wear a mask. Neither were three out of four of the others in the waiting area. None of the employees or providers wearing masks either. Nobody gave the person wearing the mask any comments or compromising looks either. Imagine that?
People here on the coast are ignoring the mandates in droves and businesses are not complying either. Restaurant employees. The entire lot. Oh, I'm sure that there are some virtue signaling businesses out there requiring them, but thus far I haven't encountered one.
I haven't even dug a mask out of the closet yet to throw in the car just in case and in all likelihood won't. I don't even think about masks except when I read crap about them on this board.
When I went back to my room, my doctor told me if I was vaccinated I could take mine off, but i was only there a few minutes and she was leanign down over me the whole time, so I just kept it on. No idea what they'd have said if someone walked in w/o one, because while I was in the waiting room, everyone had them on.
My daughter, a senior in HS, took a picture of her school hallway yesterday. School does not require masks, but encourages social distancing....but the hallway looked like a mosh pit, lol. Wall-to-wall kids. I saw one with a mask on, and it was down barely covering his mouth, lol.
You should pull her out of school and lock the doors. I'm sure you wear a mask sitting at home. Alone. JFC....
If a Dr. tells you it's OK to take the mask off and you are so damn adamant to "express" your political point of view you keep it on YOU are part of the problem not part of the solution. Follow the science right? I guess the Dr. telling you it was OK wasn't "science" enough? LMAO...
Nice self own... you tend to be damn good at those.
If a Dr. tells you it's OK to take the mask off and you are so damn adamant to "express" your political point of view you keep it on YOU are part of the problem not part of the solution. Follow the science right? I guess the Dr. telling you it was OK wasn't "science" enough? LMAO...
Nice self own... you tend to be damn good at those.
Big Bad Wolf. OG...2002
"The Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
- Thomas Jefferson
"The Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
- Thomas Jefferson
crap man...I think I'd rather have Covid than some kind of subcutaneous worm!!wilmwolf80 said:
Disclaimer, I am not advocating the use of Ivermectin for the treatment of Covid. People should only take proven treatments approved by their care providers.
I do want to point out that there is a form of that medicine that is approved for human use, and I know this because my business partner was prescribed it about ten years ago after getting a subcutaneous worm infection that rarely infects humans, that doctors thought he got from cat feces in sand that got in an open cut on his leg. They tried multiple other medicines over a period of several months before getting to that one and finally getting rid of the infection.
That doesn't mean it does anything for Covid, but it can be used in humans for other things. That doesn't get the same reaction as calling it a horse pill I suppose.
Packchem91 said:crap man...I think I'd rather have Covid than some kind of subcutaneous worm!!wilmwolf80 said:
Disclaimer, I am not advocating the use of Ivermectin for the treatment of Covid. People should only take proven treatments approved by their care providers.
I do want to point out that there is a form of that medicine that is approved for human use, and I know this because my business partner was prescribed it about ten years ago after getting a subcutaneous worm infection that rarely infects humans, that doctors thought he got from cat feces in sand that got in an open cut on his leg. They tried multiple other medicines over a period of several months before getting to that one and finally getting rid of the infection.
That doesn't mean it does anything for Covid, but it can be used in humans for other things. That doesn't get the same reaction as calling it a horse pill I suppose.
Well, I didn't deal with it directly, but I watched him suffer for several months, so I think he would agree. He actually might've ended up in a medical journal somewhere because his doctors took lots of pictures and documented it because it's was so rare. The worms couldn't get to his organs like they do in animals, so they just ran under his skin. He was miserable.
Just a guy on the sunshine squad.
I would think the psychological challenge of that condition would make it as difficult as the physical one!wilmwolf80 said:Packchem91 said:crap man...I think I'd rather have Covid than some kind of subcutaneous worm!!wilmwolf80 said:
Disclaimer, I am not advocating the use of Ivermectin for the treatment of Covid. People should only take proven treatments approved by their care providers.
I do want to point out that there is a form of that medicine that is approved for human use, and I know this because my business partner was prescribed it about ten years ago after getting a subcutaneous worm infection that rarely infects humans, that doctors thought he got from cat feces in sand that got in an open cut on his leg. They tried multiple other medicines over a period of several months before getting to that one and finally getting rid of the infection.
That doesn't mean it does anything for Covid, but it can be used in humans for other things. That doesn't get the same reaction as calling it a horse pill I suppose.
Well, I didn't deal with it directly, but I watched him suffer for several months, so I think he would agree. He actually might've ended up in a medical journal somewhere because his doctors took lots of pictures and documented it because it's was so rare. The worms couldn't get to his organs like they do in animals, so they just ran under his skin. He was miserable.
wilmwolf80 said:Packchem91 said:crap man...I think I'd rather have Covid than some kind of subcutaneous worm!!wilmwolf80 said:
Disclaimer, I am not advocating the use of Ivermectin for the treatment of Covid. People should only take proven treatments approved by their care providers.
I do want to point out that there is a form of that medicine that is approved for human use, and I know this because my business partner was prescribed it about ten years ago after getting a subcutaneous worm infection that rarely infects humans, that doctors thought he got from cat feces in sand that got in an open cut on his leg. They tried multiple other medicines over a period of several months before getting to that one and finally getting rid of the infection.
That doesn't mean it does anything for Covid, but it can be used in humans for other things. That doesn't get the same reaction as calling it a horse pill I suppose.
Well, I didn't deal with it directly, but I watched him suffer for several months, so I think he would agree. He actually might've ended up in a medical journal somewhere because his doctors took lots of pictures and documented it because it's was so rare. The worms couldn't get to his organs like they do in animals, so they just ran under his skin. He was miserable.
OMG
Damn Wilm that is insane. Sounds like something from a movie.
To clarify -- a horror movie!metcalfmafia said:
Damn Wilm that is insane. Sounds like something from a movie.
metcalfmafia said:
Damn Wilm that is insane. Sounds like something from a movie.
Apparently it is more common in third world countries where people walk barefoot through contaminated water or sand. They think it happened to him at the beach. None of the people his doctor consulted with had ever seen a case in the US. He had these little red lightning bolt looking things all over his skin that were these microscopic worms living out their life cycles. It was awful.
Just a guy on the sunshine squad.
whoever wrote that post seems like a great guycaryking said:
Posted, by sf59, on the LSU thread (football forum)...
yeah, i have spent the last 17 months working on primarily the moderna vaccine but also a couple post contraction treatment options. Here's some thoughts:
-the virus is very real, the threat is real but varies for each person
-people over 65 and immuno compromised should voluntarily vaccinate
-people outside of this group should perform their own risk assessment
-if given a choice of a vaccine I would choose Moderna-1273 (it will be approved this fall and it last longer at least in trial than pfizer)
-i personally will not booster until more of the data is back. a lot of the boosters being researched now are moving to a minimal dose with differing variant combinations. if i do boost, i want to receive the smallest, most effective dose
-once some of the treatment options become available i will no longer seek vaccination/ boosting
-the one size fits all mandates and required boosters do no take into account each person's individual well being. over vaccinating and mandating full strength repeated boosters within a population can have detrimental effects on future virus propagation - (this is virology 101)
-pro-tip: open windows and outdoor locations work better than masking in cloth and surgical mask. i still avoid small enclosed public areas where air could be stagnant and virally loaded.
over vaccination (mandated-full-dose-booster cycles) can have very real and compromising effects on both individuals and populations. this is what keeps me up at night in our current political climate
the vaccines work, have a good safety profile, and will improve over time; but the continued targeted-pinging of an immune system does have real limits and risks
i still recommend that vulnerable people get jabbed, but as treatment options become more effective and readily available i hope guidance will pivot away from infinite vaccination cycles for healthy people.
“Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes.”
—Jack Handey
—Jack Handey
We should, in my opinion, consider reducing contact trace quarantine guidance. Last season, the early guidance for my son and his teammates was to contact trace quarantine for 14 days (plus 3 days for conditioning prior to return to practice). Toward the end of the season, it was reduced to 7 days, depending on the type of contact (mask worn or not), but they were tested at the end of this period and had to be negative to be released from quarantine. Those who tested positive did have to quarantine for 14 days, plus the same 3 day conditioning period. Players who were infected also had to go through extensive health checks (three different tests for the heart) before a return to practice. My son ended up going through both a 17 day contact trace quarantine (missed half of his Fall Camp) and a 7 day contact trace quarantine at the end of the season.Everpack said:Daviewolf83 said:Three day incubation period does not seem off at all. Time before you show symptoms can be 2-3 days from contact. As far as the 80% number, it is not too surprising if they encountered someone who had a significant viral load. One thing with Delta is it produces a much higher viral load than the other variants and this is the reason it is thought to be more transmissible.Everpack said:WPNfamily said:Yes. Trip started Thursday last week. Guys has symptoms by Sunday night and Monday morning.Everpack said:WPNfamily said:
I am officially annoyed with COVID. I went on a guys trip this weekend. There were 5 of us and as of today 4 are positive with symptoms. All 5 vax'd and only I have not tested but unlike others have no symptoms. The only difference is I had COVID back in late February and early March. Break through cases in 80% of the group. Crazy! Back to hotel living because wife doesn't want me home to potentially get kids sick. COVID sucks!
When you say this weekend, do you mean this past weekend? As in 2-4 days ago? And 4/5 showing symptoms with positive test results?
All are fully vax'd
I'd love to hear some of our resident experts chime in here, because to me, 80% breakthrough cases with sub-3 day incubation period seems off?
Why are we still quarantining close contacts for 14 days?
Just devils advocate, but someone better get ahold of the vaccine purpose narrative, or the chances of changing folks minds will be impossible with stories like this. Regardless of what the data says, at this point, most people have either had the virus or seen enough mild cases to question "why" with an 80% breakthrough rate in one group, especially in younger demographics.
My opinion is contact trace quarantine should be 5 days, assuming a mask was worn. If the person stays symptom free for those five days, I believe they should be released from quarantine. Could some be asymptomatic at the end of 5 days? Yes. Should we test at the end of 5 days before releasing from quarantine? Yes. If negative and symptom free after 5 days, let people be released from quarantine.
The side-by-side data showing the vaccines are worse for the population than severe illness and death from the actual virus does not exist, so it is not worth the time to research it. I am sure there will be some reference to the VAERS database as proof of the bad effects, but as I have said before, it is not verified data and should/can not be used to judge the safety of the vaccines for the broader population.Mormad said:caryking said:Sure they are for people that have seen the data on deaths and serious illness from the vaccine!Daviewolf83 said:Therapeutics are NOT a substitute for the vaccines.caryking said:Davie, there's your answers...WPNfamily said:
With the vaccines we have, we do not need the therapeutics
I am officially annoyed with COVID. I went on a guys trip this weekend. There were 5 of us and as of today 4 are positive with symptoms. All 5 vax'd and only I have not tested but unlike others have no symptoms. The only difference is I had COVID back in late February and early March. Break through cases in 80% of the group. Crazy! Back to hotel living because wife doesn't want me home to potentially get kids sick. COVID sucks!
Also, see the following.
https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-initiates-phase-1-study-novel-oral-antiviral
I think it's clear that they recognize weaknesses in the vaccine!
Because that data is WORSE than the data on deaths and serious illness from the disease? Would you provide a side-by-side comparison of that data for us?
I stand by my earlier statement - Therapeutics are NOT a substitute for the vaccines. I have seen no data to change my position.
I totally agree. My dad, who has severe health conditions, asked me last weekend about the booster and I told him it is definitely something to consider, once it is approved (he got Moderna). My daughter, who is immunocompromised, will also consider when a booster is approved. For my wife and I, we will likely wait before deciding on a booster. The science shows we have good and lasting protection from our earlier vaccinations, have no health conditions that put us at risk, and do have concerns about the effect of multiple jabs of the same vaccine.sf59 said:whoever wrote that post seems like a great guycaryking said:
Posted, by sf59, on the LSU thread (football forum)...
yeah, i have spent the last 17 months working on primarily the moderna vaccine but also a couple post contraction treatment options. Here's some thoughts:
-the virus is very real, the threat is real but varies for each person
-people over 65 and immuno compromised should voluntarily vaccinate
-people outside of this group should perform their own risk assessment
-if given a choice of a vaccine I would choose Moderna-1273 (it will be approved this fall and it last longer at least in trial than pfizer)
-i personally will not booster until more of the data is back. a lot of the boosters being researched now are moving to a minimal dose with differing variant combinations. if i do boost, i want to receive the smallest, most effective dose
-once some of the treatment options become available i will no longer seek vaccination/ boosting
-the one size fits all mandates and required boosters do no take into account each person's individual well being. over vaccinating and mandating full strength repeated boosters within a population can have detrimental effects on future virus propagation - (this is virology 101)
-pro-tip: open windows and outdoor locations work better than masking in cloth and surgical mask. i still avoid small enclosed public areas where air could be stagnant and virally loaded.
over vaccination (mandated-full-dose-booster cycles) can have very real and compromising effects on both individuals and populations. this is what keeps me up at night in our current political climate
the vaccines work, have a good safety profile, and will improve over time; but the continued targeted-pinging of an immune system does have real limits and risks
i still recommend that vulnerable people get jabbed, but as treatment options become more effective and readily available i hope guidance will pivot away from infinite vaccination cycles for healthy people.
Great info -- particularly considering your closeness to the actual real-world of the vaccines.sf59 said:whoever wrote that post seems like a great guycaryking said:
Posted, by sf59, on the LSU thread (football forum)...
yeah, i have spent the last 17 months working on primarily the moderna vaccine but also a couple post contraction treatment options. Here's some thoughts:
-the virus is very real, the threat is real but varies for each person
-people over 65 and immuno compromised should voluntarily vaccinate
-people outside of this group should perform their own risk assessment
-if given a choice of a vaccine I would choose Moderna-1273 (it will be approved this fall and it last longer at least in trial than pfizer)
-i personally will not booster until more of the data is back. a lot of the boosters being researched now are moving to a minimal dose with differing variant combinations. if i do boost, i want to receive the smallest, most effective dose
-once some of the treatment options become available i will no longer seek vaccination/ boosting
-the one size fits all mandates and required boosters do no take into account each person's individual well being. over vaccinating and mandating full strength repeated boosters within a population can have detrimental effects on future virus propagation - (this is virology 101)
-pro-tip: open windows and outdoor locations work better than masking in cloth and surgical mask. i still avoid small enclosed public areas where air could be stagnant and virally loaded.
over vaccination (mandated-full-dose-booster cycles) can have very real and compromising effects on both individuals and populations. this is what keeps me up at night in our current political climate
the vaccines work, have a good safety profile, and will improve over time; but the continued targeted-pinging of an immune system does have real limits and risks
i still recommend that vulnerable people get jabbed, but as treatment options become more effective and readily available i hope guidance will pivot away from infinite vaccination cycles for healthy people.
Great to have you, Mormad, and PA (sorry if leaving out others) who are in the trenches and can provide back practical experiences and expectations based on what you see.
I think that might be called real science.sf59 said:whoever wrote that post seems like a great guycaryking said:
Posted, by sf59, on the LSU thread (football forum)...
yeah, i have spent the last 17 months working on primarily the moderna vaccine but also a couple post contraction treatment options. Here's some thoughts:
-the virus is very real, the threat is real but varies for each person
-people over 65 and immuno compromised should voluntarily vaccinate
-people outside of this group should perform their own risk assessment
-if given a choice of a vaccine I would choose Moderna-1273 (it will be approved this fall and it last longer at least in trial than pfizer)
-i personally will not booster until more of the data is back. a lot of the boosters being researched now are moving to a minimal dose with differing variant combinations. if i do boost, i want to receive the smallest, most effective dose
-once some of the treatment options become available i will no longer seek vaccination/ boosting
-the one size fits all mandates and required boosters do no take into account each person's individual well being. over vaccinating and mandating full strength repeated boosters within a population can have detrimental effects on future virus propagation - (this is virology 101)
-pro-tip: open windows and outdoor locations work better than masking in cloth and surgical mask. i still avoid small enclosed public areas where air could be stagnant and virally loaded.
over vaccination (mandated-full-dose-booster cycles) can have very real and compromising effects on both individuals and populations. this is what keeps me up at night in our current political climate
the vaccines work, have a good safety profile, and will improve over time; but the continued targeted-pinging of an immune system does have real limits and risks
i still recommend that vulnerable people get jabbed, but as treatment options become more effective and readily available i hope guidance will pivot away from infinite vaccination cycles for healthy people.
Correct. The on-label use is for the treatment of parasites in humans. To treat Covid would be off-label use. Last time I checked, the virus that causes Covid-19 is not classified as a parasite. Vaccines are more effective than off-label use of Ivermectin to protect against severe Covid infection.wilmwolf80 said:
Disclaimer, I am not advocating the use of Ivermectin for the treatment of Covid. People should only take proven treatments approved by their care providers.
I do want to point out that there is a form of that medicine that is approved for human use, and I know this because my business partner was prescribed it about ten years ago after getting a subcutaneous worm infection that rarely infects humans, that doctors thought he got from cat feces in sand that got in an open cut on his leg. They tried multiple other medicines over a period of several months before getting to that one and finally getting rid of the infection.
That doesn't mean it does anything for Covid, but it can be used in humans for other things. That doesn't get the same reaction as calling it a horse pill I suppose.
Just talked to my employee who had Covid. She was vaccinated due to an existing health condition (lungs). She started feeling badly Sat Aug 14. Had severe flu-like symptoms beginning last Monday, and basically wasn't even out of bed til Thursday, and then only for a few hours.
She started working again Monday (remotely, as we all are) but said just sitting there completely wears her out. Taking a shower makes her have to sit down. Walking up, or down the stairs does the same.
But she feels very fortunate she never had to go to hospital. She said her doctor, knowing her health issue, had indicated it would be very possible, but thinking the vaccine helped prevent it from getting that bad.
I'm sure she's "more protected" now that she has been thru it, but man, thats a tough way to get immunity.
She started working again Monday (remotely, as we all are) but said just sitting there completely wears her out. Taking a shower makes her have to sit down. Walking up, or down the stairs does the same.
But she feels very fortunate she never had to go to hospital. She said her doctor, knowing her health issue, had indicated it would be very possible, but thinking the vaccine helped prevent it from getting that bad.
I'm sure she's "more protected" now that she has been thru it, but man, thats a tough way to get immunity.
I enjoy chatting back and forth with you guys and apologize for forgetting this thread is here (been a little busyDaviewolf83 said:I totally agree. My dad, who has severe health conditions, asked me last weekend about the booster and I told him it is definitely something to consider, once it is approved (he got Moderna). My daughter, who is immunocompromised, will also consider when a booster is approved. For my wife and I, we will likely wait before deciding on a booster. The science shows we have good and lasting protection from our earlier vaccinations, have no health conditions that put us at risk, and do have concerns about the effect of multiple jabs of the same vaccine.sf59 said:whoever wrote that post seems like a great guycaryking said:
Posted, by sf59, on the LSU thread (football forum)...
yeah, i have spent the last 17 months working on primarily the moderna vaccine but also a couple post contraction treatment options. Here's some thoughts:
-the virus is very real, the threat is real but varies for each person
-people over 65 and immuno compromised should voluntarily vaccinate
-people outside of this group should perform their own risk assessment
-if given a choice of a vaccine I would choose Moderna-1273 (it will be approved this fall and it last longer at least in trial than pfizer)
-i personally will not booster until more of the data is back. a lot of the boosters being researched now are moving to a minimal dose with differing variant combinations. if i do boost, i want to receive the smallest, most effective dose
-once some of the treatment options become available i will no longer seek vaccination/ boosting
-the one size fits all mandates and required boosters do no take into account each person's individual well being. over vaccinating and mandating full strength repeated boosters within a population can have detrimental effects on future virus propagation - (this is virology 101)
-pro-tip: open windows and outdoor locations work better than masking in cloth and surgical mask. i still avoid small enclosed public areas where air could be stagnant and virally loaded.
over vaccination (mandated-full-dose-booster cycles) can have very real and compromising effects on both individuals and populations. this is what keeps me up at night in our current political climate
the vaccines work, have a good safety profile, and will improve over time; but the continued targeted-pinging of an immune system does have real limits and risks
i still recommend that vulnerable people get jabbed, but as treatment options become more effective and readily available i hope guidance will pivot away from infinite vaccination cycles for healthy people.
@daviewolf83- I totally agree with your vaccine/ booster approach and am doing the same. The VAERS system is a headache to explain to the layperson. It's comprised of unverified, duplicate, and triplicate reporting. Unfortunately the system has been manipulated and then used as fuel for shock headlines. my information is first hand from the investigators, volunteer subjects, and data.
if anyone is interested I can share some public domain info (without the nerd jargon for the everyday man).
Disclaimer: Some of this info is fluid so always consult your dr. prior to medical decisions.
-moderna submitted for full FDA at 9AM this morning (the timeline for full approval is TBD)
-mRNA-1273 is not seeing the high number of breakthrough illness as compared to Pfizer @ 6months. (Not sure why yet.)
-mRNA titers are holding at 9 months and could approach 1 year (this is fluid)
-mRNA is still 100% effective at preventing death and 98% effective at preventing severe covid. (so even when your immunity wains, there is still an underlying baseline protection)
-doctors are anticipating 9-12 month boosters for HEALTHY people. I bet the guidance will be 6 months like pfizer for the vulnerable . (this timing is fluid and could potentially be politically driven. i hope not)
-booster trials are ongoing. moderna has developed specific variant boosters for the 3 most common variants
-surprisingly the original wuhan vaccine formulation (yes, that's what we call it) at half dose produces the most promising efficacy early on.
Since I am young (kinda) and healthy with a baseline protection from my original shots, I will wait on booster data before deciding on which/ when/ or if.
If anyone has any questions I can see what I know or can find out
“Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes.”
—Jack Handey
—Jack Handey
Thanks for the information. I did see a table late last week that showed overall effectiveness of the three vaccines approved for use in the US. In order it ranked them as - Moderna, Pfizer, and J&J. All still offered very good protection, but Moderna was still holding up the best among the three. It is surprising that Moderna is doing slightly better than Pfizer, given the similar technology, but it is definitely something that is worth investigating.sf59 said:I enjoy chatting back and forth with you guys and apologize for forgetting this thread is here (been a little busyDaviewolf83 said:I totally agree. My dad, who has severe health conditions, asked me last weekend about the booster and I told him it is definitely something to consider, once it is approved (he got Moderna). My daughter, who is immunocompromised, will also consider when a booster is approved. For my wife and I, we will likely wait before deciding on a booster. The science shows we have good and lasting protection from our earlier vaccinations, have no health conditions that put us at risk, and do have concerns about the effect of multiple jabs of the same vaccine.sf59 said:whoever wrote that post seems like a great guycaryking said:
Posted, by sf59, on the LSU thread (football forum)...
yeah, i have spent the last 17 months working on primarily the moderna vaccine but also a couple post contraction treatment options. Here's some thoughts:
-the virus is very real, the threat is real but varies for each person
-people over 65 and immuno compromised should voluntarily vaccinate
-people outside of this group should perform their own risk assessment
-if given a choice of a vaccine I would choose Moderna-1273 (it will be approved this fall and it last longer at least in trial than pfizer)
-i personally will not booster until more of the data is back. a lot of the boosters being researched now are moving to a minimal dose with differing variant combinations. if i do boost, i want to receive the smallest, most effective dose
-once some of the treatment options become available i will no longer seek vaccination/ boosting
-the one size fits all mandates and required boosters do no take into account each person's individual well being. over vaccinating and mandating full strength repeated boosters within a population can have detrimental effects on future virus propagation - (this is virology 101)
-pro-tip: open windows and outdoor locations work better than masking in cloth and surgical mask. i still avoid small enclosed public areas where air could be stagnant and virally loaded.
over vaccination (mandated-full-dose-booster cycles) can have very real and compromising effects on both individuals and populations. this is what keeps me up at night in our current political climate
the vaccines work, have a good safety profile, and will improve over time; but the continued targeted-pinging of an immune system does have real limits and risks
i still recommend that vulnerable people get jabbed, but as treatment options become more effective and readily available i hope guidance will pivot away from infinite vaccination cycles for healthy people.
@daviewolf83- I totally agree with your vaccine/ booster approach and am doing the same. The VAERS system is a headache to explain to the layperson. It's comprised of unverified, duplicate, and triplicate reporting. Unfortunately the system has been manipulated and then used as fuel for shock headlines. my information is first hand from the investigators, volunteer subjects, and data.
if anyone is interested I can share some public domain info (without the nerd jargon for the everyday man).
Disclaimer: Some of this info is fluid so always consult your dr. prior to medical decisions.
-moderna submitted for full FDA at 9AM this morning (the timeline for full approval is TBD)
-mRNA-1273 is not seeing the high number of breakthrough illness as compared to Pfizer @ 6months. (Not sure why yet.)
-mRNA titers are holding at 9 months and could approach 1 year (this is fluid)
-mRNA is still 100% effective at preventing death and 98% effective at preventing severe covid. (so even when your immunity wains, there is still an underlying baseline protection)
-doctors are anticipating 9-12 month boosters for HEALTHY people. I bet the guidance will be 6 months like pfizer for the vulnerable . (this timing is fluid and could potentially be politically driven. i hope not)
-booster trials are ongoing. moderna has developed specific variant boosters for the 3 most common variants
-surprisingly the original wuhan vaccine formulation (yes, that's what we call it) at half dose produces the most promising efficacy early on.
Since I am young (kinda) and healthy with a baseline protection from my original shots, I will wait on booster data before deciding on which/ when/ or if.
If anyone has any questions I can see what I know or can find out
As to my question, there has been speculation among some of the infectious disease doctors I follow regarding the length of time between doses being important. The theory is that waiting 12 weeks between the two doses seems to produce a stronger antibody reaction than the shorter 3-4 week span used for Moderna and Pfizer. Is this something being studied and is it possible we will see a change in the timeframes between doses in the future?
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Forgive me if this has been mentioned previously but are there any reliable studies out there that compare natural immunity against vaccination?
Daviewolf83 said:The side-by-side data showing the vaccines are worse for the population than severe illness and death from the actual virus does not exist, so it is not worth the time to research it. I am sure there will be some reference to the VAERS database as proof of the bad effects, but as I have said before, it is not verified data and should/can not be used to judge the safety of the vaccines for the broader population.Mormad said:caryking said:Sure they are for people that have seen the data on deaths and serious illness from the vaccine!Daviewolf83 said:Therapeutics are NOT a substitute for the vaccines.caryking said:Davie, there's your answers...WPNfamily said:
With the vaccines we have, we do not need the therapeutics
I am officially annoyed with COVID. I went on a guys trip this weekend. There were 5 of us and as of today 4 are positive with symptoms. All 5 vax'd and only I have not tested but unlike others have no symptoms. The only difference is I had COVID back in late February and early March. Break through cases in 80% of the group. Crazy! Back to hotel living because wife doesn't want me home to potentially get kids sick. COVID sucks!
Also, see the following.
https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-initiates-phase-1-study-novel-oral-antiviral
I think it's clear that they recognize weaknesses in the vaccine!
Because that data is WORSE than the data on deaths and serious illness from the disease? Would you provide a side-by-side comparison of that data for us?
I stand by my earlier statement - Therapeutics are NOT a substitute for the vaccines. I have seen no data to change my position.
Exactly why i asked the question. People make statements like that with no knowledge, experience, data, or research to back it up. Same with the effective therapeutics. Can't name them. That list is, to date, proving to be short and distinguished. Most of the stuff people like to name haven't really been doing sht in real life situations. I do however agree with 59 on the booster.
Yes!!!!Steve Williams said:
Forgive me if this has been mentioned previously but are there any reliable studies out there that compare natural immunity against vaccination?
Great question. What happened to the "herd immunity" that we were told about and the MSM outlets were saying would happen once we reached the 50% vaccinated rate?
Big Bad Wolf. OG...2002
"The Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
- Thomas Jefferson
"The Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
- Thomas Jefferson
So this is wild.
— Josh Graham (@JoshGrahamRadio) August 25, 2021
China’s state-run media is now denying that COVID came from there by calling that a lab at UNC be investigated.
Story link: https://t.co/NAer6rAVwi pic.twitter.com/5kiv2a73Kx
I'm guessing some folks will like the Chinese again for starting this rumor
Steve Williams said:
Forgive me if this has been mentioned previously but are there any reliable studies out there that compare natural immunity against vaccination?
I tend to remember that it was theorized that the vaccine was supposed to protect better against variants. It seems to me the Delta variant has proven that theory bunk though.
Good questionsDaviewolf83 said:Thanks for the information. I did see a table late last week that showed overall effectiveness of the three vaccines approved for use in the US. In order it ranked them as - Moderna, Pfizer, and J&J. All still offered very good protection, but Moderna was still holding up the best among the three. It is surprising that Moderna is doing slightly better than Pfizer, given the similar technology, but it is definitely something that is worth investigating.sf59 said:I enjoy chatting back and forth with you guys and apologize for forgetting this thread is here (been a little busyDaviewolf83 said:I totally agree. My dad, who has severe health conditions, asked me last weekend about the booster and I told him it is definitely something to consider, once it is approved (he got Moderna). My daughter, who is immunocompromised, will also consider when a booster is approved. For my wife and I, we will likely wait before deciding on a booster. The science shows we have good and lasting protection from our earlier vaccinations, have no health conditions that put us at risk, and do have concerns about the effect of multiple jabs of the same vaccine.sf59 said:whoever wrote that post seems like a great guycaryking said:
Posted, by sf59, on the LSU thread (football forum)...
yeah, i have spent the last 17 months working on primarily the moderna vaccine but also a couple post contraction treatment options. Here's some thoughts:
-the virus is very real, the threat is real but varies for each person
-people over 65 and immuno compromised should voluntarily vaccinate
-people outside of this group should perform their own risk assessment
-if given a choice of a vaccine I would choose Moderna-1273 (it will be approved this fall and it last longer at least in trial than pfizer)
-i personally will not booster until more of the data is back. a lot of the boosters being researched now are moving to a minimal dose with differing variant combinations. if i do boost, i want to receive the smallest, most effective dose
-once some of the treatment options become available i will no longer seek vaccination/ boosting
-the one size fits all mandates and required boosters do no take into account each person's individual well being. over vaccinating and mandating full strength repeated boosters within a population can have detrimental effects on future virus propagation - (this is virology 101)
-pro-tip: open windows and outdoor locations work better than masking in cloth and surgical mask. i still avoid small enclosed public areas where air could be stagnant and virally loaded.
over vaccination (mandated-full-dose-booster cycles) can have very real and compromising effects on both individuals and populations. this is what keeps me up at night in our current political climate
the vaccines work, have a good safety profile, and will improve over time; but the continued targeted-pinging of an immune system does have real limits and risks
i still recommend that vulnerable people get jabbed, but as treatment options become more effective and readily available i hope guidance will pivot away from infinite vaccination cycles for healthy people.
@daviewolf83- I totally agree with your vaccine/ booster approach and am doing the same. The VAERS system is a headache to explain to the layperson. It's comprised of unverified, duplicate, and triplicate reporting. Unfortunately the system has been manipulated and then used as fuel for shock headlines. my information is first hand from the investigators, volunteer subjects, and data.
if anyone is interested I can share some public domain info (without the nerd jargon for the everyday man).
Disclaimer: Some of this info is fluid so always consult your dr. prior to medical decisions.
-moderna submitted for full FDA at 9AM this morning (the timeline for full approval is TBD)
-mRNA-1273 is not seeing the high number of breakthrough illness as compared to Pfizer @ 6months. (Not sure why yet.)
-mRNA titers are holding at 9 months and could approach 1 year (this is fluid)
-mRNA is still 100% effective at preventing death and 98% effective at preventing severe covid. (so even when your immunity wains, there is still an underlying baseline protection)
-doctors are anticipating 9-12 month boosters for HEALTHY people. I bet the guidance will be 6 months like pfizer for the vulnerable . (this timing is fluid and could potentially be politically driven. i hope not)
-booster trials are ongoing. moderna has developed specific variant boosters for the 3 most common variants
-surprisingly the original wuhan vaccine formulation (yes, that's what we call it) at half dose produces the most promising efficacy early on.
Since I am young (kinda) and healthy with a baseline protection from my original shots, I will wait on booster data before deciding on which/ when/ or if.
If anyone has any questions I can see what I know or can find out
As to my question, there has been speculation among some of the infectious disease doctors I follow regarding the length of time between doses being important. The theory is that waiting 12 weeks between the two doses seems to produce a stronger antibody reaction than the shorter 3-4 week span used for Moderna and Pfizer. Is this something being studied and is it possible we will see a change in the timeframes between doses in the future?
-currently not sure why the moderna-1273 seems to have longevity compared to Pfizer. It could be the unique lipid stabilizer (which is a difference between the two) or it could also be a statistical anomaly related to population sampling. (I think the Pfizer trial is more heavily sampled with immune compromised volunteers.) maybe a combination of these?
-i don't see anything coming down the pike that addresses primary vaccination timing, but I do know the rationale for the original 3-4 week first shot/ booster design. the 2 jabs were closely spaced to protect at risk people as priority 1( ie save lives). When durability becomes a larger need we should see the long-period primary immunization designs. (I hope to see these sooner than later and am holding out on boosters, in part, for this option)
On a side note, the original 3-4 week dosing window is the design being used in the current phase 2 and 3 booster trials
“Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes.”
—Jack Handey
—Jack Handey
The CCP is not your friend and you should never trust anything they do or say. They will look to undermine American institutions as much as possible.Packchem91 said:So this is wild.
— Josh Graham (@JoshGrahamRadio) August 25, 2021
China’s state-run media is now denying that COVID came from there by calling that a lab at UNC be investigated.
Story link: https://t.co/NAer6rAVwi pic.twitter.com/5kiv2a73Kx
I'm guessing some folks will like the Chinese again for starting this rumor
By the way, information is starting to leak out regarding the 90-day assessment the Biden administration was conducting on the virus origin. Early word is inconclusive on origin, with lab leak and natural origin still being on the table. I will continue people to follow Alina Chan on Twitter for the most up-to-date information on the various origin theories.
"intelligence officials fell short of a consensus, said the officials...
— Alina Chan (@Ayjchan) August 25, 2021
“We should not even be thinking about closing the book or backing off, but rather ratcheting up the effort,” David Relman, a Stanford University microbiologist"https://t.co/EcPR5Ylvqb
Yeah, if they'd have referenced "academic scandal benefitting athletics", it would have been much more believable than "corona origins"Daviewolf83 said:The CCP is not your friend and you should never trust anything they do or say. They will look to undermine American institutions as much as possible.Packchem91 said:So this is wild.
— Josh Graham (@JoshGrahamRadio) August 25, 2021
China’s state-run media is now denying that COVID came from there by calling that a lab at UNC be investigated.
Story link: https://t.co/NAer6rAVwi pic.twitter.com/5kiv2a73Kx
I'm guessing some folks will like the Chinese again for starting this rumor
By the way, information is starting to leak out regarding the 90-day assessment the Biden administration was conducting on the virus origin. Early word is inconclusive on origin, with lab leak and natural origin still being on the table. I will continue people to follow Alina Chan on Twitter for the most up-to-date information on the various origin theories."intelligence officials fell short of a consensus, said the officials...
— Alina Chan (@Ayjchan) August 25, 2021
“We should not even be thinking about closing the book or backing off, but rather ratcheting up the effort,” David Relman, a Stanford University microbiologist"https://t.co/EcPR5Ylvqb
honestly, i have looked for a good data pull with this type of comparison and have not found a one yet. (there could be some i missedSteve Williams said:
Forgive me if this has been mentioned previously but are there any reliable studies out there that compare natural immunity against vaccination?
)the ones i have read are not granular enough to be useful. it really needs to be an apples to apples comparison that accounts for the over sampling of immuno compromised and elderly populations within the phase 3 trials and differentiates between the severity of illness.
generally speaking, from historical data and past vaccines, the two immunities are in the same ball park. (but i am curious if the same holds true for new mRNA platforms)
“Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes.”
—Jack Handey
—Jack Handey
The Most Vaccine-Hesitant Group of All: Ph.D.s?
20.8% High School or Less
18.3% Some College
11.0% Bachelor's Degree
8.3% Masters Degree
12.3% Professional Degree
23.9% PhD
Interesting ...
20.8% High School or Less
18.3% Some College
11.0% Bachelor's Degree
8.3% Masters Degree
12.3% Professional Degree
23.9% PhD
Interesting ...
Packchem91 said:So this is wild.
— Josh Graham (@JoshGrahamRadio) August 25, 2021
China’s state-run media is now denying that COVID came from there by calling that a lab at UNC be investigated.
Story link: https://t.co/NAer6rAVwi pic.twitter.com/5kiv2a73Kx
I'm guessing some folks will like the Chinese again for starting this rumor
Chem, you are uninformed again. All evidence points to Wuhon for virus; however, Ralph Barric is being called out for "possibly" early help with the Wuhon Lab on the creation of the virus!
So, whether the virus came from Wuhon or not, we are supplying them with knowledge on how to create these viruses. I think that has been proven!
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
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