Coronavirus

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Everpack
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In reply to Civilized • 10:50p, 6/24/20
Civilized said:
Everpack said:
Like I said, there's no finish line.

And maybe dehumanize is a poor choice of words, but I'm already tired of going into public with people in masks looking as people without masks like they're lepers. Or watching how people in general won't even look at other people in the eyes. Or passing someone at work and smiling in acknowledgement to their existence only to remember I'm wearing a damn mask. Or having to put masks on my 11 and 7 year old so they can walk into the dentist for a checkup. Whatever word you want to use to define those thoughts, use it. I feel like it's dehumanizing.

I'll also ask again, where does it end? Not probably some opinion. What's the finite end goal to all NC citizens wearing a mask in all public places.


I hear you man. I'm tired of this Rona **** too.

But this, too, shall pass and the more of us that wear masks and are smart about socializing/gathering the quicker it will be.

What benchmark do you think is reasonable to get to before the mask mandate is lifted?


I think If masks were going to be mandated, it should've occurred at the beginning of phase two. Even then, I struggle to see their benefit in the grand scheme of things. The evidence has been proven that the transmission of this virus requires close, sustained contact. It's why NYC was hit so hard. They live like caged animals up there and rely on public transit almost exclusively. It's why here in NC the Hispanic community is reported at 46% of all cases while making up 9% of the population. They tend to live in multi-family housing with more people in a home than what other Americans do. How many grocery stores or Lowes have experienced outbreaks with employees? They've been slammed with more business than ever before, even during the initial stay at home orders, and I've not read one report of a single store having an outbreak. We watched thousands of citizens legally assemble and protest the previous few weeks with mixed mask usage, yet report after report claim no outbreaks were caused by the protests. I just feel like our state leadership missed the boat from the get-go and have continually proven they have no clue what the actual data means.
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wilmwolf
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In reply to Everpack • 11:00p, 6/24/20
Everpack said:
Wayland said:
Yes, of the cases where ethnicity is identified. 46% of all cases in NC are Hispanic and yes, it is a community that is being massively disproportionately affected.

It took the state a long time to say out loud.

There are a number of cases, probably close to a third with no ethnicity information.


Is it acceptable to discuss why this is disproportionately affecting one ethnicity? I mean, I doubt they're shopping at different grocery stores or using a Hispanic only Lowe's.


I think it's acceptable to talk about it, but I also don't really care what other people think is acceptable at this point. I've said all along that there were factors at play in the spread of this virus the would be interesting to study when it's all over, and culture is one of those. If you look at Italy, and as hard hit as they were, you see a culture that is more likely to have multi generational families living together than your typical American household. Based on my experiences ( I speak Spanish, know many Hispanic families, and have spent a period of time living among them in rural Mexico) you are more likely to see multi generational and multi family living situations in those cultures. You are also dealing with a portion of that population that may be more likely to work in fields that have continued to work outside of the home throughout this pandemic. I work in a field adjunct to the construction industry, which has not stopped in this state, of which many of the workers are of Hispanic descent. Some job sites are requiring masks, some are not, and you have groups of people working in close proximity that would make transmission easy. There are other industries comprised mostly of lower paying hourly employees, such as the processing plants, that may also be more likely to be staffed by Hispanic workers. You are also looking at a population that is historically more likely to be uninsured or under insured, who may be more reluctant to seek medical care if they experience symptoms, which may make them more likely to continue working outside the home and transmitting the disease to others. I would think some of those factors could explain the higher numbers among that group.
Just a guy on the sunshine squad.
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Packchem91
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In reply to Everpack • 11:20p, 6/24/20
Everpack said:
Wayland said:
Yes, of the cases where ethnicity is identified. 46% of all cases in NC are Hispanic and yes, it is a community that is being massively disproportionately affected.

It took the state a long time to say out loud.

There are a number of cases, probably close to a third with no ethnicity information.


Is it acceptable to discuss why this is disproportionately affecting one ethnicity? I mean, I doubt they're shopping at different grocery stores or using a Hispanic only Lowe's.
I think its been pretty clear this virus is particularly hard hitting on multi-generational households, often lots of folks in a tiny space. That describes large swaths of the migrant Hispanic community in this state. That's not a knock or denigration...but its a reality.
Many are low income and can't, or won't, stop working or work at home, to limit exposure. They came here to work, and survive by working....exposure to danger is really no deterrent.
Also, many Hispanic workers work in environments where this virus has hit hard like the meat packing plants. I'd bet that segment alone has made a big dent in the metrics.

I still anticipate a huge impact to be found in poor central American countries where poverty reigns and people live in often very unsanitary conditions with many family members across multiple generations. With pre-existing conditions out the wazoo. I know the community I've been to in Honduras a number of times has been on complete lockdown -- armed guards with road blocks not allowing people in nor out of the town. If the virus doesn't kill them, increased poverty and limited access to food may. Probably very bad all around there, just not reported b/c the media is limited there
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Wolfblood
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11:48p, 6/24/20
I'm fine with the mask mandate, but what was the reasoning on staying in phase two? What are we telling these business owners who can still not open their business? Your livelihood is not important to the state? Forget the money and time you have spent to build your business because we don't consider you essential?

Forget some non-mask wearing rando walking behind you in Walmart described on here by some as selfish. The government deciding whether you can continue to pursue your livelihood is the definition of selfish.

No one seems to care. Every medical professional, politician, and media hack that make the rules and demand you follow their decisions without question are still working and receiving a salary like it was still February. Sooner or later every American deserves the opportunity to work and provide the basic necessities for them and their families while practicing the necessary precautions.

Also, for those touting a coming vaccine. That would be awesome, but there has never been a successful vaccine for any of the past coronaviruses. Never. Why will this one be different?

I'm hoping this will follow the SARS virus and won't mutate and will just die out. Seems like it is just as hopeful and possible as waiting on a vaccine.

While we wait would it be too much to ask that we as a country move forward to consider the medical, economic and mental health aspect of every policy decision and how those policies and decisions will impact every aspect of society and every citizen across the country.

Also, we would be better of if politics weren't seemingly driving every action and reaction about this pandemic.

Rant off/
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Wayland
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7:19a, 6/25/20
I feel like either the media is bad at reading comprehension or I am.

The executive order says this:

https://files.nc.gov/governor/documents/files/EO147-Phase-2-Extension.pdf

"B. Where Face Coverings Are Required. People are required to wear Face Coverings in the following settings, whether they are inside or outside, unless an exception applies. "

I read that as "below we are going to list the places that masks are required".

A lot in the media are reporting it as "masks are required everywhere in public AND here are also places they are required"

It doesn't make sense to me that you would mandate masks be required everywhere and then also list specific places they are required?

Will someone check me? This basically just made masks mandatory in businesses (which I think a lot of people were already doing), but outside at a park etc it is still just a 'recommendation'.
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wilmwolf
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In reply to Wayland • 8:20a, 6/25/20
Per the Governor's tweet:

"The other important decision is requiring face coverings when people are out in public. People must wear face coverings when in public places, indoors or outdoors, where physical distancing of 6 feet from other people who aren't in the same household or residence isn't possible."

Personally, that statement is fairly ambiguous. It reads to me like masks aren't required anywhere that social distancing can be maintained, which could be pretty much everywhere depending on how many people are there.
Just a guy on the sunshine squad.
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Wayland
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In reply to wilmwolf • 8:25a, 6/25/20
Right, but this is based on an ACTUAL Executive Order which I linked above. He can tweet and imply whatever he wants, but that isn't what he ACTUALLY put in the order?

No where in the order where it says masks are required does it say 'all public spaces', it just specifically identifies locations where they are required. WRAL actually seems to agree with my interpretation (which is odd since they are panic porn people) but a lot of other places seem to be misinterpreting.

I am not making a judgment on the order here, that is not my point, I just want to make sure I am reading it right.

Just to add WRAL's take which is one of the few which seems to read it how I read it.

Quote:
Effective June 26 at 5 p.m., face coverings are required for both customers and employees of open businesses, including restaurants, grocery stores, pharmacies, salons and other retail businesses. They are also required for employees and riders on public transportation, for all employees of long-term care and child care facilities, in state government, on construction sites, at meat and poultry processing plants and in farm settings where multiple workers are close together.

Face coverings are recommended for use outdoors where 6 feet of distance is not possible.
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PackMom
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In reply to Wayland • 8:30a, 6/25/20
We read it the same way you did. And I would feel confident in saying your reading comprehension is well above that of many of the reporters.
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wilmwolf
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In reply to Wayland • 8:34a, 6/25/20
I read the order the same as his tweet. He listed places where masks were required, and all those places also include the caveat of "when they are or may be within six feet of another person". Like you, the order doesn't say to me that masks are required everywhere. It specifically lists the places, and the exceptions.
Just a guy on the sunshine squad.
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Daviewolf83
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In reply to Wayland • 8:41a, 6/25/20
Wayland said:
I feel like either the media is bad at reading comprehension or I am.

The executive order says this:

https://files.nc.gov/governor/documents/files/EO147-Phase-2-Extension.pdf

"B. Where Face Coverings Are Required. People are required to wear Face Coverings in the following settings, whether they are inside or outside, unless an exception applies. "

I read that as "below we are going to list the places that masks are required".

A lot in the media are reporting it as "masks are required everywhere in public AND here are also places they are required"

It doesn't make sense to me that you would mandate masks be required everywhere and then also list specific places they are required?

Will someone check me? This basically just made masks mandatory in businesses (which I think a lot of people were already doing), but outside at a park etc it is still just a 'recommendation'.
I believe it is tied to where the governor has enforcement power. The governor does not have the ability to pass a law (a right reserved for the legislative branch) that requires the wearing of a mask everywhere. The seat belt law and laws regulating smoking in certain areas were passed by the legislature and this is why they can be legally enforced. If someone does not wear a mask indoors, they can be charged with trespassing, if they refuse to put one on. The governor has put the onus on businesses to regulate the order. For outside, public locations, he can only make a recommendation, since he can not pass a law.
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TheStorm
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10:03a, 6/25/20
Pure semantics for the purpose of the November National Election.

Nothing going on today that wasn't going on when we went into Phase 2 on May 22... only our Governor staying in lockstep with other Democratic Governors across the country at the confidential request of the DNC.

Doesn't impact my current actions regardless, I still have a mask around my neck anytime I go out and anytime that I am in the presence of others wearing them (common courtesy) or a place that requires or asks for one... I slide it up into place. *Strangely enough, I just went to a client's office in Wilmington for a business meeting on Tuesday of this week and not only was no one else involved wearing a mask - but I was the only person that even had one around my neck... but whatever.

Sad thing is that our numbers were going to start going down again anyway... don't think these people don't know exactly what they are doing.

Political manipulation intended only to influence an election... Coronavirus is the Democrat's best friend... *Rules are only for people (like me) that follow the rule of basic law to begin with.
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IseWolf22
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11:04a, 6/25/20
I wonder how many dirty looks Im going to start getting when my wife and I walk our dogs on the Cary greenway.

I've been wearing masks when im indoors in public, but I'm not going to do it while outside
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Everpack
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In reply to TheStorm • 11:40a, 6/25/20
TheStorm said:
Sad thing is that our numbers were going to start going down again anyway... don't think these people don't know exactly what they are.


Winner, winner, chicken dinner.
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wilmwolf
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In reply to IseWolf22 • 11:43a, 6/25/20
IseWolf22 said:
I wonder how many dirty looks Im going to start getting when my wife and I walk our dogs on the Cary greenway.

I've been wearing masks when im indoors in public, but I'm not going to do it while outside
You shouldn't get any, since the order specifically says you aren't required to wear one in that circumstance, but it's Cary, so you probably will anyway.
Just a guy on the sunshine squad.
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Civilized
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In reply to IseWolf22 • 11:46a, 6/25/20
IseWolf22 said:
I wonder how many dirty looks Im going to start getting when my wife and I walk our dogs on the Cary greenway.

I've been wearing masks when im indoors in public, but I'm not going to do it while outside

Right there with you. I'm wearing one all the time inside and none of the time outside.

Although in fairness I'm not walking along crowded sidewalks; I'd wear one then too if I was.
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BruceDouble
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12:02p, 6/25/20
For my landscape company, we're following all mask guidelines at office, in trucks, at lunch etc. but not making my guys wear while outside on job sites. 90+ degrees with humidity in a mask for 8hrs? I can argue that all day(heat exhaustion, fogging up safety glasses etc.) I have no doubt someone will see a guy of mine mowing without a mask and call to file a complaint.

I went 3 months with no employee even sniffing thinking they had covid. This week alone I've sent 3 people to get tested bc of extended exposure outside of work to someone that tested positive. All unrelated.
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Wayland
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In reply to Wayland • 12:06p, 6/25/20
Wayland said:
Wayland said:
Wayland said:
Wayland said:
Wayland said:
Wayland said:
Wayland said:
Wayland said:
Quote:
6/16/2020 Morning DHHS update (as of 12:00pm)

NC Cases
45,853
NC Deaths
1154
Currently Hospitalized
829 <- 85% still stable since increased from 73% yesterday reporting
Completed Tests
651,421

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
723 Deaths are now Congregate (+17)
97 Deaths are now Unknown Setting (+7)
+36 Deaths Overall since yesterday.

334 Deaths assumed General Population (+12)
820 Congregate and Unknown Setting. (+24)

193 Congregate Facilities now have an outbreak. (+6)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WRAL is at 1196* and NandO is at 1169 deaths

751 positive cases over 12,942 new tests. 5.8% positive rate.

6/17/2020 Morning DHHS update (as of 12:00pm)

NC Cases
46,855
NC Deaths
1168
Currently Hospitalized
846 <- 86% reporting (was 829 at 85% yesterday)
Completed Tests
667,422

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
729 Deaths are now Congregate (+6)
99 Deaths are now Unknown Setting (+2)
+14 Deaths Overall since yesterday.

340 Deaths assumed General Population (+6)
828 Congregate and Unknown Setting. (+8)

195 Congregate Facilities now have an outbreak. (+2)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WRAL is at 1208* and NandO is at 1181 deaths

1002 positive cases over 16,001 new tests. 6.3% positive rate.

Dates of deaths reported today:
5/22 - 1
5/31 - 1
6/2 - 1
6/13 -2
6/14 - 2
6/15 - 3
6/16 - 4

Don't know who the back log belongs to. I think the majority of the deaths today were reported out of Meck/Guilford. But since they are also the two hardest places, just as likely to be the current reports.
6/18/2020 Morning DHHS update (as of 12:00pm)

NC Cases
48,188
NC Deaths
1175
Currently Hospitalized
857 <- 88% reporting (was 846 at 86% yesterday) still roughly stable. higher % report.
Completed Tests
693,678

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
733 Deaths are now Congregate (+4)
99 Deaths are now Unknown Setting (+0)
+14 Deaths Overall since yesterday.

343 Deaths assumed General Population (+3)
832 Congregate and Unknown Setting. (+4)

195 Congregate Facilities now have an outbreak. (+2)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WRAL is at 1222* and NandO is at 1181 deaths

1333 positive cases over 26,256 new tests. 5.1% positive rate.

7 deaths reported today occurred between 6/11 and 6/17

54% of the delta in the case ethnicity data (where available) were Hispanic.
6/19/2020 Morning DHHS update (as of 12:00pm)

NC Cases
49,840
NC Deaths
1197
Currently Hospitalized
871 <- 91% reporting (was 857 at 88% yesterday) new high, but higher %. Roughly stable
Completed Tests
712,313

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
745 Deaths are now Congregate (+12)
105 Deaths are now Unknown Setting (+6)
+22 Deaths Overall since yesterday.

347 Deaths assumed General Population (+4)
850 Congregate and Unknown Setting. (+18)

191 Congregate Facilities now have an outbreak. (-4)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WRAL is at 1235* and NandO is at 1181 deaths

1652 positive cases over 18,638 new tests. 8.9% positive rate.

These hospitalizations need to go down. The only bright side is that the % of reporting hospitals has increased each day that the overall number has increased. The number is relatively stable but NEEDS to decline.

The case total is lower than last Friday, so not a new high. That is a positive we see a little case stabilization, maybe.

16 of the deaths reported today are from the last week. There was an adjustment and one death was removed from 5/27. One death reported today was as far back as 5/17, one additional on 5/31.

Deaths are still being driven by congregate facilities.

Of the cases with a reported ethnicity, over 50% of new cases are Hispanic.
6/20/2020 Morning DHHS update (as of 12:00pm)

NC Cases
51389
NC Deaths
1212
Currently Hospitalized
883 <- 87% reporting (was 871 at 91% yesterday) new high.
Completed Tests
731,341

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
749 Deaths are now Congregate (+4)
106 Deaths are now Unknown Setting (+1)
+15 Deaths Overall since yesterday.

357 Deaths assumed General Population (+10)
855 Congregate and Unknown Setting. (+5)

192 Congregate Facilities now have an outbreak. (+1)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WRAL is at 1262* deaths (Questionable sourcing. Doesn't make corrections when numbers adjusted)
NandO is at 1197 deaths (may be no longer keeping separate count from DHHS)

1549 positive cases over 19028 new tests. 8.1% positive rate.

Hospitalizations creeping up. Both ICU and overall are higher. Still need to turn that corner. First day in a while not driven by congregate deaths. Most of the ICU increases are coming out of EHPC (Eastern NC) and MHPC (Meck). Most other groups are relatively stable.
6/21/2020 Morning DHHS update (as of 12:00pm)

NC Cases
52801
NC Deaths
1220
Currently Hospitalized
845<- 74% reporting (was 883 at 87% yesterday) Lower reporting %. Stable/Small increase
Completed Tests
745,775


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
752 Deaths are now Congregate (+3)
108 Deaths are now Unknown Setting (+2)
+8 Deaths Overall since yesterday.

360 Deaths assumed General Population (+3)
860 Congregate and Unknown Setting. (+5)

190 Congregate Facilities now have an outbreak. (-2)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WRAL is at 1269* deaths (Questionable sourcing. Doesn't make corrections when numbers adjusted)
NandO is at 1197 deaths (may be no longer keeping separate count from DHHS)

1412 positive cases over 14434 new tests. 9.8% positive rate.

3 day case rate reported last 6/12-6/14 = 4638, 6/19-621 = 4613. Cases stable week over week.

60% of new cases with ethnicity reported today are Hispanic. Need to keep focusing resources there to help.
6/22/2020 Morning DHHS update (as of 12:00pm)

NC Cases
53605
NC Deaths
1223
Currently Hospitalized
870<- 73% reporting (was 845 at 74% yesterday) Lower reporting %. Higher # admits.
Completed Tests
757.345


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
754 Deaths are now Congregate (+2)
109 Deaths are now Unknown Setting (+1)
+3 Deaths Overall since yesterday.

360 Deaths assumed General Population (+0)
863 Congregate and Unknown Setting. (+3)

191 Congregate Facilities now have an outbreak. (+1)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WRAL is at 1273* deaths (Questionable sourcing. Doesn't make corrections when numbers adjusted)
NandO is at 1220 deaths (may be no longer keeping separate count from DHHS)

804 positive cases over 11570 new tests. 6.9% positive rate.

Less than half of tests today had ethnicity data, would be interesting to know sourcing.

All 3 reported deaths were from 6/20-6/21.
6/23/2020 Morning DHHS update (as of 12:00pm)

NC Cases
54,453
NC Deaths
1251
Currently Hospitalized
915 new high <- 91% reporting (was 870 at 73% yesterday) Higher reporting %. Higher # admits.
Completed Tests
773,828

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
771 Deaths are now Congregate (+17)
114 Deaths are now Unknown Setting (+5)
+28 Deaths Overall since yesterday.

366 Deaths assumed General Population (+6)
885 Congregate and Unknown Setting. (+22)

196 Congregate Facilities now have an outbreak. (+5)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WRAL is at 1275* deaths (Questionable sourcing. Doesn't make corrections when numbers adjusted)
NandO is at 1223 deaths (may be no longer keeping separate count from DHHS)

848 positive cases over 16,483 new tests. 5.1% positive rate.



Highest hospitalizations, but also one of the highest reporting days in weeks. This continues to creep up slowly and will be the reason for whatever Executive Orders come next, but dangerous to not provide context to this number.

Meck is having a tough time maintaining their peak case counts from last week. Still high but not as high.

Date of Death not updated yet.
I suspect a number of these deaths are lagged data. There has been a large gap in the DHHS data, and I feel like they were waiting for a quiet Tuesday to throw this all in. We will see if I am right. EDIT: WRAL showed a bit of a jump as well, so I expect we might see the lag data from the smaller counties come in over the next day as well.

Peak at the locations of deaths reported today, 5 Cumberland, 4 Robeson, and 3 Chatham. No other county above 2. I believe these are some of the counties I identified a while back as having a large disconnect with DHHS reporting. Most of this is 1 and 2 offs in smaller counties.

EDIT: As I was saying, 8 of the deaths added to the graph today are over 2 weeks old and an additional 3 are between 1 and 2 weeks old.

Deaths included from today are from 5/24, 5/25, 5/26, 6/1, 6/4(2), 6/5, 6/6, 6/11, and 6/13(2). The remaining deaths are from the last 7 days.

6/24/2020 Morning DHHS update (as of 12:00pm)

NC Cases
56,174
NC Deaths
1271 (Date of Death Graphy only lists 1266 deaths)
Currently Hospitalized
906 <- 88% reporting (was 915 at 91% yesterday) Lower reporting %. Lower # admits.
Completed Tests
791,285

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
781 Deaths are now Congregate (+10)
120 Deaths are now Unknown Setting (+6)
+20 Deaths Overall since yesterday.

370 Deaths assumed General Population (+4)
901 Congregate and Unknown Setting. (+16)

197 Congregate Facilities now have an outbreak. (+1)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WRAL is at 1294* deaths (Questionable sourcing. Doesn't make corrections when numbers adjusted)
NandO is at 1251 deaths (may be no longer keeping separate count from DHHS)

1721 positive cases over 17,457 new tests. 9.9% positive rate.

Case data and day of death data have not been updated. Huge case dump to justify(?) whatever Cooper's decision is. Will be interesting to see if the next two days are also huge spikes, the high reporting usually comes later in the week.

Interesting. When I break down their county data, I only get 1461 cases assigned to counties. That leaves 260 cases that are not being assigned a location. I wonder why that is? Something about this feel a little like a data dump again.

Meck+ 247
Wake+ 147
Guilford +65
Forsyth +64
No other county over 40 new cases.

Even worse they have screwed up their Total Deaths by Date of Deaths graph by adding 20 deaths today in the Outbreaks and Clusters tab but only 15 in their Date of Death tab... so there is that. They are also now listing a missing date of death... which is kind of odd they don't know when someone died but they know how.

Even worse than stating that they only added 15 deaths to the chart today, they somehow actually added 22 instead of 20. HOT MESS.

Deaths again high from Cumberland and Guilford and DHHS now reporting higher deaths than the counties themselves report, wish I know why the reporting discrepancies.
6/25/2020 Morning DHHS update (as of 12:00pm)

NC Cases
57,183
NC Deaths
1290 (Date of Death Graph only lists 1284 deaths)
Currently Hospitalized
891 <- 90% reporting (was 906 at 88% yesterday) Higher reporting %. Lower # admits.
Completed Tests
811,278

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
787 Deaths are now Congregate (+6)
130 Deaths are now Unknown Setting (+10)
+19 Deaths Overall since yesterday.

373 Deaths assumed General Population (+3)
917 Congregate and Unknown Setting. (+16)

200 Congregate Facilities now have an outbreak. (+3)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WRAL is at 1317* deaths (Questionable sourcing. Doesn't make corrections when numbers adjusted)

1009 positive cases over 19,993 new tests. 5.0% positive rate.

Hospitalizations down. Cases lowest Thursday in weeks. Check out what I bolded from yesterday's post when I noticed the odd early week case spike.

Deaths were +22 on the Date of Death chart today (regardless of what they say). One death was removed from 5/8.
Deaths added today by date 5/15, 5/23, 5/27, 5/28, 6/3, 6/8, 6/13, 6/15(2), 6/16(2), 6/17, 6/19, 6/20, 6/22, 6/23(5), and 6/24(3).

So significant lagged data in the report today. It looks like they slide 6 of the old Robeson deaths and 4 old Meck deaths into today's data. Been waiting a long time for that Robeson reconciliation.

And notice yesterday when I remarked there were about an extra 260 cases that were missing a county from yesterday. Well guess what there are about about an extra 260 cases that are assigned a county over what was reported as a total. In the county level data 1254 cases were added even though the overall count was 1009. Yesterday they reported 1461 county cases but 1721 overall cases.

Data was juiced.
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redsteel33
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12:25p, 6/25/20
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Packchem91
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12:39p, 6/25/20
I've been with the crowd of believing the data is not being accurately reported....and in some cases, purposefully inaccurately reported (or w/o context)

And I get a politician might move dates around to have a particularly strong story when he makes a policy.

But....how does keeping bars and gyms closed affect the national election in November? Wouldn't folks who are particuarly po'd here, be po'd at the governor? (who is leading by a lot in the polls even here, strangely enough).

Frankly, at the national level....I think people would / would have forgiven the POTUS of economic downturn....
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GuerrillaPack
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In reply to Packchem91 • 12:50p, 6/25/20
Packchem91 said:
I've been with the crowd of believing the data is not being accurately reported....and in some cases, purposefully inaccurately reported (or w/o context)

And I get a politician might move dates around to have a particularly strong story when he makes a policy.

But....how does keeping bars and gyms closed affect the national election in November? Wouldn't folks who are particuarly po'd here, be po'd at the governor? (who is leading by a lot in the polls even here, strangely enough).

Frankly, at the national level....I think people would / would have forgiven the POTUS of economic downturn....
The "polls" put out by the Establishment media are all doctored/fabricated BS.

I sense the opposite on here in regards to Cooper. I sense that a sizeable majority on these forums do not support him, and would not vote for him.
"Ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." - John 15:19
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Wayland
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In reply to Packchem91 • 12:57p, 6/25/20
Packchem91 said:
I've been with the crowd of believing the data is not being accurately reported....and in some cases, purposefully inaccurately reported (or w/o context)

And I get a politician might move dates around to have a particularly strong story when he makes a policy.

But....how does keeping bars and gyms closed affect the national election in November? Wouldn't folks who are particuarly po'd here, be po'd at the governor? (who is leading by a lot in the polls even here, strangely enough).

Frankly, at the national level....I think people would / would have forgiven the POTUS of economic downturn....
Cooper didn't need to do what he did with the data to justify his decision, but it just shows how manipulative they are being with this data to control policy. He could have done it based solely on their pattern of how they were reporting data (with the largest reporting day typically Friday).

The one and only thing I ask is, do not lie to me. It weakens your position even IF you are making the correct decision when you present a false case.

Policy decisions are being made based on month's old assumptions. If we are going to 'follow the science' then we need to release the numbers and just not make **** up.

I think bars and gyms should be allowed to open with the same precautions.

But I am not even that upset about his decision, it is mostly reasonable based on data (even though I read the data differently).

I am mad that I am being actively lied to by the state government in order for them to justify actions when they don't need to lie in the first place.
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PackMom
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In reply to BruceDouble • 12:59p, 6/25/20
BruceDouble said:
For my landscape company, we're following all mask guidelines at office, in trucks, at lunch etc. but not making my guys wear while outside on job sites. 90+ degrees with humidity in a mask for 8hrs? I can argue that all day(heat exhaustion, fogging up safety glasses etc.) I have no doubt someone will see a guy of mine mowing without a mask and call to file a complaint.
Tell them nobody should be within 6 feet of an operating mower, Covid or not. ;-)
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Daviewolf83
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In reply to Wayland • 12:59p, 6/25/20
Wayland said:
Wayland said:
Wayland said:
Wayland said:
Wayland said:
Wayland said:
Wayland said:
Wayland said:
Wayland said:
Quote:
6/16/2020 Morning DHHS update (as of 12:00pm)

NC Cases
45,853
NC Deaths
1154
Currently Hospitalized
829 <- 85% still stable since increased from 73% yesterday reporting
Completed Tests
651,421

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
723 Deaths are now Congregate (+17)
97 Deaths are now Unknown Setting (+7)
+36 Deaths Overall since yesterday.

334 Deaths assumed General Population (+12)
820 Congregate and Unknown Setting. (+24)

193 Congregate Facilities now have an outbreak. (+6)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WRAL is at 1196* and NandO is at 1169 deaths

751 positive cases over 12,942 new tests. 5.8% positive rate.

6/17/2020 Morning DHHS update (as of 12:00pm)

NC Cases
46,855
NC Deaths
1168
Currently Hospitalized
846 <- 86% reporting (was 829 at 85% yesterday)
Completed Tests
667,422

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
729 Deaths are now Congregate (+6)
99 Deaths are now Unknown Setting (+2)
+14 Deaths Overall since yesterday.

340 Deaths assumed General Population (+6)
828 Congregate and Unknown Setting. (+8)

195 Congregate Facilities now have an outbreak. (+2)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WRAL is at 1208* and NandO is at 1181 deaths

1002 positive cases over 16,001 new tests. 6.3% positive rate.

Dates of deaths reported today:
5/22 - 1
5/31 - 1
6/2 - 1
6/13 -2
6/14 - 2
6/15 - 3
6/16 - 4

Don't know who the back log belongs to. I think the majority of the deaths today were reported out of Meck/Guilford. But since they are also the two hardest places, just as likely to be the current reports.
6/18/2020 Morning DHHS update (as of 12:00pm)

NC Cases
48,188
NC Deaths
1175
Currently Hospitalized
857 <- 88% reporting (was 846 at 86% yesterday) still roughly stable. higher % report.
Completed Tests
693,678

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
733 Deaths are now Congregate (+4)
99 Deaths are now Unknown Setting (+0)
+14 Deaths Overall since yesterday.

343 Deaths assumed General Population (+3)
832 Congregate and Unknown Setting. (+4)

195 Congregate Facilities now have an outbreak. (+2)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WRAL is at 1222* and NandO is at 1181 deaths

1333 positive cases over 26,256 new tests. 5.1% positive rate.

7 deaths reported today occurred between 6/11 and 6/17

54% of the delta in the case ethnicity data (where available) were Hispanic.
6/19/2020 Morning DHHS update (as of 12:00pm)

NC Cases
49,840
NC Deaths
1197
Currently Hospitalized
871 <- 91% reporting (was 857 at 88% yesterday) new high, but higher %. Roughly stable
Completed Tests
712,313

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
745 Deaths are now Congregate (+12)
105 Deaths are now Unknown Setting (+6)
+22 Deaths Overall since yesterday.

347 Deaths assumed General Population (+4)
850 Congregate and Unknown Setting. (+18)

191 Congregate Facilities now have an outbreak. (-4)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WRAL is at 1235* and NandO is at 1181 deaths

1652 positive cases over 18,638 new tests. 8.9% positive rate.

These hospitalizations need to go down. The only bright side is that the % of reporting hospitals has increased each day that the overall number has increased. The number is relatively stable but NEEDS to decline.

The case total is lower than last Friday, so not a new high. That is a positive we see a little case stabilization, maybe.

16 of the deaths reported today are from the last week. There was an adjustment and one death was removed from 5/27. One death reported today was as far back as 5/17, one additional on 5/31.

Deaths are still being driven by congregate facilities.

Of the cases with a reported ethnicity, over 50% of new cases are Hispanic.
6/20/2020 Morning DHHS update (as of 12:00pm)

NC Cases
51389
NC Deaths
1212
Currently Hospitalized
883 <- 87% reporting (was 871 at 91% yesterday) new high.
Completed Tests
731,341

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
749 Deaths are now Congregate (+4)
106 Deaths are now Unknown Setting (+1)
+15 Deaths Overall since yesterday.

357 Deaths assumed General Population (+10)
855 Congregate and Unknown Setting. (+5)

192 Congregate Facilities now have an outbreak. (+1)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WRAL is at 1262* deaths (Questionable sourcing. Doesn't make corrections when numbers adjusted)
NandO is at 1197 deaths (may be no longer keeping separate count from DHHS)

1549 positive cases over 19028 new tests. 8.1% positive rate.

Hospitalizations creeping up. Both ICU and overall are higher. Still need to turn that corner. First day in a while not driven by congregate deaths. Most of the ICU increases are coming out of EHPC (Eastern NC) and MHPC (Meck). Most other groups are relatively stable.
6/21/2020 Morning DHHS update (as of 12:00pm)

NC Cases
52801
NC Deaths
1220
Currently Hospitalized
845<- 74% reporting (was 883 at 87% yesterday) Lower reporting %. Stable/Small increase
Completed Tests
745,775


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
752 Deaths are now Congregate (+3)
108 Deaths are now Unknown Setting (+2)
+8 Deaths Overall since yesterday.

360 Deaths assumed General Population (+3)
860 Congregate and Unknown Setting. (+5)

190 Congregate Facilities now have an outbreak. (-2)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WRAL is at 1269* deaths (Questionable sourcing. Doesn't make corrections when numbers adjusted)
NandO is at 1197 deaths (may be no longer keeping separate count from DHHS)

1412 positive cases over 14434 new tests. 9.8% positive rate.

3 day case rate reported last 6/12-6/14 = 4638, 6/19-621 = 4613. Cases stable week over week.

60% of new cases with ethnicity reported today are Hispanic. Need to keep focusing resources there to help.
6/22/2020 Morning DHHS update (as of 12:00pm)

NC Cases
53605
NC Deaths
1223
Currently Hospitalized
870<- 73% reporting (was 845 at 74% yesterday) Lower reporting %. Higher # admits.
Completed Tests
757.345


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
754 Deaths are now Congregate (+2)
109 Deaths are now Unknown Setting (+1)
+3 Deaths Overall since yesterday.

360 Deaths assumed General Population (+0)
863 Congregate and Unknown Setting. (+3)

191 Congregate Facilities now have an outbreak. (+1)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WRAL is at 1273* deaths (Questionable sourcing. Doesn't make corrections when numbers adjusted)
NandO is at 1220 deaths (may be no longer keeping separate count from DHHS)

804 positive cases over 11570 new tests. 6.9% positive rate.

Less than half of tests today had ethnicity data, would be interesting to know sourcing.

All 3 reported deaths were from 6/20-6/21.
6/23/2020 Morning DHHS update (as of 12:00pm)

NC Cases
54,453
NC Deaths
1251
Currently Hospitalized
915 new high <- 91% reporting (was 870 at 73% yesterday) Higher reporting %. Higher # admits.
Completed Tests
773,828

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
771 Deaths are now Congregate (+17)
114 Deaths are now Unknown Setting (+5)
+28 Deaths Overall since yesterday.

366 Deaths assumed General Population (+6)
885 Congregate and Unknown Setting. (+22)

196 Congregate Facilities now have an outbreak. (+5)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WRAL is at 1275* deaths (Questionable sourcing. Doesn't make corrections when numbers adjusted)
NandO is at 1223 deaths (may be no longer keeping separate count from DHHS)

848 positive cases over 16,483 new tests. 5.1% positive rate.



Highest hospitalizations, but also one of the highest reporting days in weeks. This continues to creep up slowly and will be the reason for whatever Executive Orders come next, but dangerous to not provide context to this number.

Meck is having a tough time maintaining their peak case counts from last week. Still high but not as high.

Date of Death not updated yet.
I suspect a number of these deaths are lagged data. There has been a large gap in the DHHS data, and I feel like they were waiting for a quiet Tuesday to throw this all in. We will see if I am right. EDIT: WRAL showed a bit of a jump as well, so I expect we might see the lag data from the smaller counties come in over the next day as well.

Peak at the locations of deaths reported today, 5 Cumberland, 4 Robeson, and 3 Chatham. No other county above 2. I believe these are some of the counties I identified a while back as having a large disconnect with DHHS reporting. Most of this is 1 and 2 offs in smaller counties.

EDIT: As I was saying, 8 of the deaths added to the graph today are over 2 weeks old and an additional 3 are between 1 and 2 weeks old.

Deaths included from today are from 5/24, 5/25, 5/26, 6/1, 6/4(2), 6/5, 6/6, 6/11, and 6/13(2). The remaining deaths are from the last 7 days.

6/24/2020 Morning DHHS update (as of 12:00pm)

NC Cases
56,174
NC Deaths
1271 (Date of Death Graphy only lists 1266 deaths)
Currently Hospitalized
906 <- 88% reporting (was 915 at 91% yesterday) Lower reporting %. Lower # admits.
Completed Tests
791,285

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
781 Deaths are now Congregate (+10)
120 Deaths are now Unknown Setting (+6)
+20 Deaths Overall since yesterday.

370 Deaths assumed General Population (+4)
901 Congregate and Unknown Setting. (+16)

197 Congregate Facilities now have an outbreak. (+1)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WRAL is at 1294* deaths (Questionable sourcing. Doesn't make corrections when numbers adjusted)
NandO is at 1251 deaths (may be no longer keeping separate count from DHHS)

1721 positive cases over 17,457 new tests. 9.9% positive rate.

Case data and day of death data have not been updated. Huge case dump to justify(?) whatever Cooper's decision is. Will be interesting to see if the next two days are also huge spikes, the high reporting usually comes later in the week.

Interesting. When I break down their county data, I only get 1461 cases assigned to counties. That leaves 260 cases that are not being assigned a location. I wonder why that is? Something about this feel a little like a data dump again.

Meck+ 247
Wake+ 147
Guilford +65
Forsyth +64
No other county over 40 new cases.

Even worse they have screwed up their Total Deaths by Date of Deaths graph by adding 20 deaths today in the Outbreaks and Clusters tab but only 15 in their Date of Death tab... so there is that. They are also now listing a missing date of death... which is kind of odd they don't know when someone died but they know how.

Even worse than stating that they only added 15 deaths to the chart today, they somehow actually added 22 instead of 20. HOT MESS.

Deaths again high from Cumberland and Guilford and DHHS now reporting higher deaths than the counties themselves report, wish I know why the reporting discrepancies.
6/25/2020 Morning DHHS update (as of 12:00pm)

NC Cases
57,183
NC Deaths
1290 (Date of Death Graph only lists 1284 deaths)
Currently Hospitalized
891 <- 90% reporting (was 906 at 88% yesterday) Higher reporting %. Lower # admits.
Completed Tests
811,278

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
787 Deaths are now Congregate (+6)
130 Deaths are now Unknown Setting (+10)
+19 Deaths Overall since yesterday.

373 Deaths assumed General Population (+3)
917 Congregate and Unknown Setting. (+16)

200 Congregate Facilities now have an outbreak. (+3)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WRAL is at 1317* deaths (Questionable sourcing. Doesn't make corrections when numbers adjusted)

1009 positive cases over 19,993 new tests. 5.0% positive rate.

Hospitalizations down. Cases lowest Thursday in weeks. Check out what I bolded from yesterday's post when I noticed the odd early week case spike.

Deaths were +22 on the Date of Death chart today (regardless of what they say). One death was removed from 5/8.
Deaths added today by date 5/15, 5/23, 5/27, 5/28, 6/3, 6/8, 6/13, 6/15(2), 6/16(2), 6/17, 6/19, 6/20, 6/22, 6/23(5), and 6/24(3).

So significant lagged data in the report today. It looks like they slide 6 of the old Robeson deaths and 4 old Meck deaths into today's data. Been waiting a long time for that Robeson reconciliation.

And notice yesterday when I remarked there were about an extra 260 cases that were missing a county from yesterday. Well guess what there are about about an extra 260 cases that are assigned a county over what was reported as a total. In the county level data 1254 cases were added even though the overall count was 1009. Yesterday they reported 1461 county cases but 1721 overall cases.

Data was juiced.
I really think they played some games with the cases reported yesterday to make the case count higher - in advance of the governor's announcement on the delay of Phase 3. Over half the cases reported yesterday were from last week for a reason. Based on the limited transparency in the data, I do not trust anything they put out.
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Packchem91
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In reply to Wayland • 1:13p, 6/25/20
Wayland said:
Packchem91 said:
I've been with the crowd of believing the data is not being accurately reported....and in some cases, purposefully inaccurately reported (or w/o context)

And I get a politician might move dates around to have a particularly strong story when he makes a policy.

But....how does keeping bars and gyms closed affect the national election in November? Wouldn't folks who are particuarly po'd here, be po'd at the governor? (who is leading by a lot in the polls even here, strangely enough).

Frankly, at the national level....I think people would / would have forgiven the POTUS of economic downturn....
Cooper didn't need to do what he did with the data to justify his decision, but it just shows how manipulative they are being with this data to control policy. He could have done it based solely on their pattern of how they were reporting data (with the largest reporting day typically Friday).

The one and only thing I ask is, do not lie to me. It weakens your position even IF you are making the correct decision when you present a false case.

Policy decisions are being made based on month's old assumptions. If we are going to 'follow the science' then we need to release the numbers and just not make **** up.

I think bars and gyms should be allowed to open with the same precautions.

But I am not even that upset about his decision, it is mostly reasonable based on data (even though I read the data differently).

I am mad that I am being actively lied to by the state government in order for them to justify actions when they don't need to lie in the first place.
Wayland, to be clear, wasn't really addressing your positions --- you are deep in the data, you do a great job of parsing it, and interpreting it, and I appreciate that you want the data to tell the story, not the story to tailor the data.
I share your concerns...and think it is deplorable that the governor, or any leader, is playing the data. Or, to your point, not being transparent. And we're such a divided nation, that people of one persuasion (either) are often not inclined to be rational about any of this...but just jump in entrenched b/c they hate the person delivering.

But none of your points really address what I was asking, which is, this theme (from others, not you) that Cooper is restricting bars / gyms from opening because it helps the Dems in NOV. What am I missing to that line of thought?

**My family is directly and personally impacted by not opening bars because of one a dependent business being shuttered when bars are.BUT...given the behavior we have seen in some other places, I can at least understand how someone could come to decision to keep bars closed. (Now, how you leave bars closed while allowing bars as part of restaurants, or breweries to open....that's a great question). Either way...not sure how that affects NOV?

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packgrad
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In reply to Packchem91 • 1:29p, 6/25/20
They want to extend this as long as possible. You said the president would have been forgiven for the economy. Democrats were literally celebrating when the economy tanked early in the crisis. Maybe they're hoping it will take another dive. Keeping bars and gyms closed isn't a decision based on "science". It is 100% a political decision. How can you justify all of the other businesses allowed to open, but not bars and gyms? There is no justification.

Sow fear. Sow discontent. Sow racial issues. Hope for another downturn of the economy. And then maybe everyone will forget or not care that your candidate is in early stages of Alzheimer's.
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Packchem91
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In reply to packgrad • 1:38p, 6/25/20
packgrad said:
They want to extend this as long as possible. You said the president would have been forgiven for the economy. Democrats were literally celebrating when the economy tanked early in the crisis. Maybe they're hoping it will take another dive. Keeping bars and gyms closed isn't a decision based on "science". It is 100% a political decision. How can you justify all of the other businesses allowed to open, but not bars and gyms? There is no justification.

Sow fear. Sow discontent. Sow racial issues. Hope for another downturn of the economy. And then maybe everyone will forget or not care that your candidate is in early stages of Alzheimer's.
People don't act the same in bars and Lowe's or Target. Sorry, that's not a reasonable comparison. The very nature of bars is a social encourager. I do believe images from certain events have an impact on human decisions --- seeing scenes from Nashville and other bar-heavy areas of widespread close social interaction w/o masks could absolutely influence reasonable decision makers.

How do you measure that? How do you differentiate the risk of a stand-alone bar from one that takes up 1/2 a restaurant? No idea.

As for NOV...the people who are most angry about the bar decision made by a DEM governor....wouldn't he be more at risk for losing than Trump based off that? How is any voter in NC going to blame (and vote against) Trump in NOV when it is clearly the NC Governor making that decision?
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Civilized
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In reply to packgrad • 1:43p, 6/25/20
packgrad said:
They want to extend this as long as possible. You said the president would have been forgiven for the economy. Democrats were literally celebrating when the economy tanked early in the crisis. Maybe they're hoping it will take another dive. Keeping bars and gyms closed isn't a decision based on "science". It is 100% a political decision. How can you justify all of the other businesses allowed to open, but not bars and gyms? There is no justification.

Sow fear. Sow discontent. Sow racial issues. Hope for another downturn of the economy. And then maybe everyone will forget or not care that your candidate is in early stages of Alzheimer's.

Democrats were celebrating the economy tanking? Where? Which Democrats? The dumbest and most short-sighted ones on the planet? Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Name two or three other commercial establishments that combine volume of people + heavy breathing/lots of talking + close proximities + impaired judgment/lack of focus on distancing + few masks the way that bars and gyms do.

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Colonel Armstrong
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In reply to Civilized • 1:47p, 6/25/20
There are certainly a number of people in this country that were happy our economy took a big hit. Some hate Trump so much they would do anything to prevent his re-election. After the failed impeachment and other investigations, some definitely viewed COVID as their last best chance to prevent re-election.

Of course those people will never openly say that though
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packgrad
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In reply to Packchem91 • 1:48p, 6/25/20
Packchem91 said:
packgrad said:
They want to extend this as long as possible. You said the president would have been forgiven for the economy. Democrats were literally celebrating when the economy tanked early in the crisis. Maybe they're hoping it will take another dive. Keeping bars and gyms closed isn't a decision based on "science". It is 100% a political decision. How can you justify all of the other businesses allowed to open, but not bars and gyms? There is no justification.

Sow fear. Sow discontent. Sow racial issues. Hope for another downturn of the economy. And then maybe everyone will forget or not care that your candidate is in early stages of Alzheimer's.
People don't act the same in bars and Lowe's or Target. Sorry, that's not a reasonable comparison. The very nature of bars is a social encourager. I do believe images from certain events have an impact on human decisions --- seeing scenes from Nashville and other bar-heavy areas of widespread close social interaction w/o masks could absolutely influence reasonable decision makers.

How do you measure that? How do you differentiate the risk of a stand-alone bar from one that takes up 1/2 a restaurant? No idea.

As for NOV...the people who are most angry about the bar decision made by a DEM governor....wouldn't he be more at risk for losing than Trump based off that? How is any voter in NC going to blame (and vote against) Trump in NOV when it is clearly the NC Governor making that decision?


I never compared Lowe's/HD to a bar. I believe it is apparent that Democrat leadership throughout the country have made the decision that it hurts them more to open up and find out that the virus is not as bad as we've been told than it does to keep small businesses closed destroying many of them.
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packgrad
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In reply to Civilized • 1:49p, 6/25/20
Civilized said:
packgrad said:
They want to extend this as long as possible. You said the president would have been forgiven for the economy. Democrats were literally celebrating when the economy tanked early in the crisis. Maybe they're hoping it will take another dive. Keeping bars and gyms closed isn't a decision based on "science". It is 100% a political decision. How can you justify all of the other businesses allowed to open, but not bars and gyms? There is no justification.

Sow fear. Sow discontent. Sow racial issues. Hope for another downturn of the economy. And then maybe everyone will forget or not care that your candidate is in early stages of Alzheimer's.

Democrats were celebrating the economy tanking? Where? Which Democrats? The dumbest and most short-sighted ones on the planet? Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Name two or three other commercial establishments that combine volume of people + heavy breathing/lots of talking + close proximities + impaired judgment/lack of focus on distancing + few masks the way that bars and gyms do.



Every brewery in the state.
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mdreid
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In reply to Civilized • 1:54p, 6/25/20
Civilized said:


Democrats were celebrating the economy tanking? Where? Which Democrats? The dumbest and most short-sighted ones on the planet? Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Name two or three other commercial establishments that combine volume of people + heavy breathing/lots of talking + close proximities + impaired judgment/lack of focus on distancing + few masks the way that bars and gyms do.

went to the gym yesterday...

everyone was respectful about space cleaned the equipment after use and kept to themselves.

i was more comfortable in that space than when i need to go to a walmart or lowes.
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Packchem91
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In reply to packgrad • 2:06p, 6/25/20
packgrad said:
Packchem91 said:
packgrad said:
They want to extend this as long as possible. You said the president would have been forgiven for the economy. Democrats were literally celebrating when the economy tanked early in the crisis. Maybe they're hoping it will take another dive. Keeping bars and gyms closed isn't a decision based on "science". It is 100% a political decision. How can you justify all of the other businesses allowed to open, but not bars and gyms? There is no justification.

Sow fear. Sow discontent. Sow racial issues. Hope for another downturn of the economy. And then maybe everyone will forget or not care that your candidate is in early stages of Alzheimer's.
People don't act the same in bars and Lowe's or Target. Sorry, that's not a reasonable comparison. The very nature of bars is a social encourager. I do believe images from certain events have an impact on human decisions --- seeing scenes from Nashville and other bar-heavy areas of widespread close social interaction w/o masks could absolutely influence reasonable decision makers.

How do you measure that? How do you differentiate the risk of a stand-alone bar from one that takes up 1/2 a restaurant? No idea.

As for NOV...the people who are most angry about the bar decision made by a DEM governor....wouldn't he be more at risk for losing than Trump based off that? How is any voter in NC going to blame (and vote against) Trump in NOV when it is clearly the NC Governor making that decision?


I never compared Lowe's/HD to a bar. I believe it is apparent that Democrat leadership throughout the country have made the decision that it hurts them more to open up and find out that the virus is not as bad as we've been told than it does to keep small businesses closed destroying many of them.
I could buy that if it were allowing the economy in general to open. Tourism in states like NC/SC for example.
But....you've yet to come close to showing how the NC GOV keeping bars closed has one iota of an impact on the national scene.

I get being mad about it...that's fine. And he may have ulterior motives -- I'm most certainly no fan of his. But cynicism does have its limits, or it just becomes absurd.
And why close bars to win a political contest....are bars particularly right-leaning? I always thought drinking was blind to political affiliation?
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Wolfblood
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2:06p, 6/25/20
The fact that state governments continue to wield the tremendous power of deciding whether small business owners are essential enough to keep their busineses afloat is the problem. These small business owners are at the mercy of state governments as to whether they can provide an income for themselves and their families. Do you think they give a sh*t which corrupt political party the destruction of their business will benefit?

Like I said last night, unlike millions of Americans, the medical experts, politicians and media hacks that are making and pushing these policy decisions have no financial skin in the game. Also, do we know the breakdown of job losses for the private sector versus government employees. That would be an interesting study.

A couple of questions.

Does anyone have any thoughts on the fact that there has never been a successful vaccine for any prior coronavirus? Why do the medical experts think it will be different this time?

Do these positive test results differentiate when and how long ago the person contracted the virus? In other words, do the test results show whether the person contracted the virus in the last couple of weeks or two months ago?

Sorry if that's a dumb question, but that difference would be a huge factor in determining current and future policy.
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GuerrillaPack
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In reply to Wolfblood • 2:10p, 6/25/20
Wolfblood said:
The fact that state governments continue to wield the tremendous power of deciding whether small business owners are essential enough to keep their busineses afloat is the problem. These small business owners are at the mercy of state governments as to whether they can provide an income for themselves and their families. Do you think they give a sh*t which corrupt political party the destruction of their business will benefit?

Like I said last night, unlike millions of Americans, the medical experts, politicians and media hacks that are making and pushing these policy decisions have no financial skin in the game. Also, do we know the breakdown of job losses for the private sector versus government employees. That would be an interesting study.

A couple of questions.

Does anyone have any thoughts on the fact that there has never been a successful vaccine for any prior coronavirus? Why do the medical experts think it will be different this time?

Do these positive test results differentiate when and how long ago the person contracted the virus? In other words, do the test results show whether the person contracted the virus in the last couple of weeks or two months ago?

Sorry if that's a dumb question, but that difference would be a huge factor in determining current and future policy.
Excellent points. They can't even make an effective vaccine for the flu. I've never even heard of a vaccine for a cold virus.

And yet people just believe these media and Gubmint hacks when they tell us that "we can't get back to normal until everyone is vaccinated". A vaccine will probably not even work! So does that mean that we have to shut down society FOREVER? Over something less deadly than the seasonal flu?

This whole thing is the most ridiculous and insane thing I've ever seen in my life. I can't believe so many people are continuing to go along with this.

When are people going to finally have had enough of these shenanigans? This can't go on forever. We have to get back to life as normal. I'm not accepting the agenda to radically change our society.
"Ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." - John 15:19
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Civilized
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In reply to mdreid • 2:15p, 6/25/20
mdreid said:
Civilized said:


Democrats were celebrating the economy tanking? Where? Which Democrats? The dumbest and most short-sighted ones on the planet? Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Name two or three other commercial establishments that combine volume of people + heavy breathing/lots of talking + close proximities + impaired judgment/lack of focus on distancing + few masks the way that bars and gyms do.

went to the gym yesterday...

everyone was respectful about space cleaned the equipment after use and kept to themselves.

i was more comfortable in that space than when i need to go to a walmart or lowes.

Nice! I was wondering how that was going.

I'm not for keeping them closed, FWIW.

We need to reopen, wear masks, test, and trace. We can't stay closed much/any longer.
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