2023 Women's Outdoor Track

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jadawson
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DrummerboyWolf said:

jadawson said:

DrummerboyWolf said:

jadawson said:

toddl said:

DNS sonofabeech


Exhibit A of why Tuohy just needs to go pro (hopefully after 1 more xc season). She's already to the point of not even prioritizing ncaa nationals
Come on, do you really believe that? She is a competitor and tries to give her best. Let's come down off of our high horse. She had a bad night. It happens to all athletes in every sport because they are human. Some questioning her strategy are not in her shoes. She was trying to pull off an unbelievable double and it didn't work out. Most of, if not all commenting have never competed at the level she is at, so some of the comments on here are out of line in my opinion.

She has had a great career here at N. C. State and done some pretty much unprecedented things and we are going to judge her on one race that did not go her way? That is totally unfair. A little perspective please.
Wait What? I genuinely have no idea how you could have possibly got that from what i said.


Here you go. Your words. She's already to the point of not even prioritizing ncaa nationals
Can you explain how what i said is judgmental, or out of line, or puts me on a high horse or anything else you said?

That was based on the announcer at the meet saying they had talked to Coach Henes and that Tuohy's outdoor season was about putting her in positions to race and perform well and not do anything to jeopardize her ultimate goals which would be USA's. It was pretty clear that she just didn't have it today and thats fine. It happens to the best athletes like you said. All im saying is that most college athletes dont pull out of ncaa championships unless they are injured because the championship is the end goal. They dont need to be fresh and in peak form a month from now like Tuohy wants to be. Sprint and field event training is completely different than distance training which is why those athletes can do what they do and still show up at USA's. That is a very difficult peak to maintain for a distance athlete and running herself into the ground in a race a month before clearly wouldn't be beneficial to her training afterwards.

I'm not saying she didn't want to win and wasn't trying her best. All i'm saying is that if an athlete is putting something other than NCAA nationals as the end goal it makes sense to me to just be a pro. Trying to race this hard a month before USA's but having the training blocks scheduled around USA's seems like it would make both events more difficult than if you just focused on one or the other.

TheStorm
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Don't pay him any attention. He always has to be the smartest guy in the room and has no clue whatsoever how much more you know about this sport than he does.
Wolfer79
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GuerrillaPack
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jadawson said:

DrummerboyWolf said:

jadawson said:

DrummerboyWolf said:

jadawson said:

toddl said:

DNS sonofabeech


Exhibit A of why Tuohy just needs to go pro (hopefully after 1 more xc season). She's already to the point of not even prioritizing ncaa nationals
Come on, do you really believe that? She is a competitor and tries to give her best. Let's come down off of our high horse. She had a bad night. It happens to all athletes in every sport because they are human. Some questioning her strategy are not in her shoes. She was trying to pull off an unbelievable double and it didn't work out. Most of, if not all commenting have never competed at the level she is at, so some of the comments on here are out of line in my opinion.

She has had a great career here at N. C. State and done some pretty much unprecedented things and we are going to judge her on one race that did not go her way? That is totally unfair. A little perspective please.
Wait What? I genuinely have no idea how you could have possibly got that from what i said.


Here you go. Your words. She's already to the point of not even prioritizing ncaa nationals
Can you explain how what i said is judgmental, or out of line, or puts me on a high horse or anything else you said?

That was based on the announcer at the meet saying they had talked to Coach Henes and that Tuohy's outdoor season was about putting her in positions to race and perform well and not do anything to jeopardize her ultimate goals which would be USA's. It was pretty clear that she just didn't have it today and thats fine. It happens to the best athletes like you said. All im saying is that most college athletes dont pull out of ncaa championships unless they are injured because the championship is the end goal. They dont need to be fresh and in peak form a month from now like Tuohy wants to be. Sprint and field event training is completely different than distance training which is why those athletes can do what they do and still show up at USA's. That is a very difficult peak to maintain for a distance athlete and running herself into the ground in a race a month before clearly wouldn't be beneficial to her training afterwards.

I'm not saying she didn't want to win and wasn't trying her best. All i'm saying is that if an athlete is putting something other than NCAA nationals as the end goal it makes sense to me to just be a pro. Trying to race this hard a month before USA's but having the training blocks scheduled around USA's seems like it would make both events more difficult than if you just focused on one or the other.


Yeah, but she doesn't have to turn pro in order to race at US Nationals. She can race at US Nationals in a month, and then come back for cross country at NC State in the fall.
"Ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." - John 15:19
jadawson
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GuerrillaPack said:

jadawson said:



Can you explain how what i said is judgmental, or out of line, or puts me on a high horse or anything else you said?

That was based on the announcer at the meet saying they had talked to Coach Henes and that Tuohy's outdoor season was about putting her in positions to race and perform well and not do anything to jeopardize her ultimate goals which would be USA's. It was pretty clear that she just didn't have it today and thats fine. It happens to the best athletes like you said. All im saying is that most college athletes dont pull out of ncaa championships unless they are injured because the championship is the end goal. They dont need to be fresh and in peak form a month from now like Tuohy wants to be. Sprint and field event training is completely different than distance training which is why those athletes can do what they do and still show up at USA's. That is a very difficult peak to maintain for a distance athlete and running herself into the ground in a race a month before clearly wouldn't be beneficial to her training afterwards.

I'm not saying she didn't want to win and wasn't trying her best. All i'm saying is that if an athlete is putting something other than NCAA nationals as the end goal it makes sense to me to just be a pro. Trying to race this hard a month before USA's but having the training blocks scheduled around USA's seems like it would make both events more difficult than if you just focused on one or the other.


Yeah, but she doesn't have to turn pro in order to race at US Nationals. She can race at US Nationals in a month, and then come back for cross country at NC State in the fall.
Yes i'm aware of that, im specifically talking about Outdoor track season. There isn't a "larger goal" after NCAA XC that would detract her attention from nationals like there is in outdoor track. Ive stated a few times i think the most likely scenario for her is to go pro in some fashion after XC this fall (whether staying in Raleigh with Coach Henes or joining a training group in Boulder/Flagstaff etc.,). Im more talking about trying to repeat this scenario next year with the Olympic Trials being her true long term goal.
jadawson
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Now that the season is over time to look back at my predictions. First up is Throws/Multi:

Throws/Multis


Makala Wright - Will compete in the Hammer Throw. She's improved constantly since arriving on campus. She threw the 6th best Hammer Throw in school history (170' 9")in her freshman outdoor campaign last season which was good enough to help her finish 9th at the ACC outdoor track championships. Considering she improved about 7 feet this indoors season in the Weight Throw from her freshman campaign, I don't think pushing towards 180' is out of the question, but a more realistic goal may be aiming for the 176/177' range and hoping to score at ACC's.

Mahkayla Hart - Will compete in the Hammer Throw and Shotput. She's also been improving consistently since arriving on campus, She finished 21st at ACC's last outdoor season at the Hammer throw, and then improved her PB's in the weight throw by about 5 feet and Shotput by about 3 feet from her freshman indoors campaign. A good goal for her in the Hammer Throw might be shooting for the 160' barrier that would have her flirting with top 10 all time at NC State and a potential top 15 finish at ACC's. In the Shotput an improvement on her big PB from Indoors by even a foot or two would be awesome, so a goal of 47' could be obtainable and set her up for a potential top 15 finish at ACC's if she chose that route.

Sydney Freeman - She hasn't competed in an outdoors season for NC State yet but I would expect her to compete in the Shotput and Discus where she competed in high school. She threw a 43' 5" in the shotput in Indoors, so a goal of 45' could make sense this season. In the Discus she hasn't competed in the event in 2 years so its unclear where her improvement lies, but her HS PB was 107' so given the time gap and improvement elsewhere hopefully somewhere around 120' is obtainable.

Timara Chapman - Will focus on the Heptathlon, but as it isn't offered at many meets prior to ACC's she will compete in other events throughout the season, generally throws and sprints. Last spring she finished 2nd in the ACC in the heptathlon. She was on track for a solid Pentathlon at ACC's again this year before pulling out with injury before the last event. If she is back and healthy she should be competitive again and hope to be in line for another top finish and hopefully a title.

HM: Ta'Honny Exum & Clara Willard. Both redshirted indoors and may end up redshirting again but both have won multiple NC state titles at the high school level at the Shotput and Discus respectively so both could be fairly competitive at least amongst our team once they are ready to go.

I sold Makala Wright short. Not only did she break my goal of 180' in the Hammer Throw, she smashed it and set a new school record with a throw of 191' 0". She didn't have her best day at ACC's but she's to the level where she can score at ACC's on a good day which is exciting from a team perspective moving forwards.

Unfortunately Mahkayla Hart didn't make a real step forwards this season, basically sticking around her current PB of ~ 155' in the hammer throw the whole season before failing to register a clean throw at ACC's. Still have hope for her future though.

Sydney Freeman pivoted to the Hammer Throw for much of the outdoors season and did very well for a Freshman, throwing a 6th best in school history 173' 11" this season. That puts her on a similar path to the now school record Makala Wright.

Katie Horne is someone i missed on completely in a good way. I didn't have much expectations for the freshman and all she did was set and then break her own school record in the javelin throw multiple times ending with a throw of 147' 6" and also finishing 14th at ACC's. Very exciting future here.

Also missed on Jakerra Covington. She had been a jack of all trades in indoors competing in everything from short sprints to throws to high jump to long jump. She settled more on throws outdoors and it paid off big time with some huge PB's including a now 2nd best all time throw of 143' 2" in the javelin throw and a 9th place finish at ACC's.

Finally to the Multi's there is Timara Chapman who had a brilliant season. Broke her own school record in the Heptathlon, won the ACC title and qualified for Nationals finishing as a 2nd team all-american. Brilliant season for her.
jadawson
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Next up is Jumps and Sprints:

Jumps


Jirah Sidberry - Will compete in the Long and Triple Jumps. One of the best jumpers in school history. Finished 5th in the ACC last year at the Triple Jump and 13th at the Long Jump. She set a new LJ PB during indoors with a 20' 8.5" so the 21' barrier would be the logical goal this outdoor season which would have her competitive for a conference title. Her TJ best is 42' 2" which is already competitive at the conference level, but more consistently jumping in the 42' range and maybe pushing as close to 43' as she can would be a good goal. Who knows an ACC title could come out of those goals.

Zahra Bichara - Will compete in the Long Jump. Saw significant improvement from her freshman campaign this past indoors season. She never broke 17' 10" in either season last year in the long jump but she jumped 18' 6" this indoors. A push as close as she can get to 19' would be a great goal and set her up for a potential top 15 finish at ACC outdoors.

Sprints

Mia D'Ambrosio - Tough to say with her as she hasn't raced since 2021 outdoors but she is still listed on the roster. Just assuming she runs she would be the best sprinter on the team outside of maybe Timara Chapman, and would compete in the 100-400. With the long layoff and not having the best of freshman seasons, getting back to her high school PB's would be a big win. She ran 11.89 for 100, 23.54 for 200 and 55.52 for 400 which are all better than her college PB's from her freshman year. Assuming she is still on the team and will race it would be great to see her round back into form.

HM: Akira Rhodes - Similar to D'Ambrosio, biggest thing is unclear if she will run but she is still listed on the roster. Also hasn't raced since 2021, but when she was running she was competitive within the ACC at the 100 hurdles.

It was a great season by Jirah Sidberry. She set new PB's in the Long Jump with 20' 10" (3rd best in school history, and in the Triple Jump with 42' 4.75" (5th best in school history). She also won the ACC title in the Long Jump and qualified for Nationals finishing 19th.

Zahra Bichara was a bit stagnant in outdoors, not able to improve on her indoors times, but she was still fairly close and was consistently better than she was last outdoors season. Still have a lot of hope for her future in the jumps.

Neither of the two sprinters i missed ran this season, but i did completely whiff on Ally Henson in such a good way. She didn't have the best indoors season even though it wasn't terrible. And still hadn't reached her PB from last season yet as of the start of ACC's, with it remaining at 13.65s in the 100 Hurdles. Not only did she set a new PB, she smashed it running first a 13.47 in the prelims, and then a 13.36 in the finals to take 5th in the ACC. This time was also good for 5th place in school history and qualified her for regionals where she matched this PB of 13.36 but was not able to qualify for nationals.
Nairo
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The Tuohy kid needs to hang it up for the season and go into active recovery. She's not making this national team and has nothing to gain going to USATF. Her future is 2024 and many years beyond. She's been through three training cycles and has been racing for 8 months. Take a rest, get back into things mid July, defend XC and then go pro in December.

GuerrillaPack said:

jadawson said:

DrummerboyWolf said:

jadawson said:

DrummerboyWolf said:

jadawson said:

toddl said:

DNS sonofabeech


Exhibit A of why Tuohy just needs to go pro (hopefully after 1 more xc season). She's already to the point of not even prioritizing ncaa nationals
Come on, do you really believe that? She is a competitor and tries to give her best. Let's come down off of our high horse. She had a bad night. It happens to all athletes in every sport because they are human. Some questioning her strategy are not in her shoes. She was trying to pull off an unbelievable double and it didn't work out. Most of, if not all commenting have never competed at the level she is at, so some of the comments on here are out of line in my opinion.

She has had a great career here at N. C. State and done some pretty much unprecedented things and we are going to judge her on one race that did not go her way? That is totally unfair. A little perspective please.
Wait What? I genuinely have no idea how you could have possibly got that from what i said.


Here you go. Your words. She's already to the point of not even prioritizing ncaa nationals
Can you explain how what i said is judgmental, or out of line, or puts me on a high horse or anything else you said?

That was based on the announcer at the meet saying they had talked to Coach Henes and that Tuohy's outdoor season was about putting her in positions to race and perform well and not do anything to jeopardize her ultimate goals which would be USA's. It was pretty clear that she just didn't have it today and thats fine. It happens to the best athletes like you said. All im saying is that most college athletes dont pull out of ncaa championships unless they are injured because the championship is the end goal. They dont need to be fresh and in peak form a month from now like Tuohy wants to be. Sprint and field event training is completely different than distance training which is why those athletes can do what they do and still show up at USA's. That is a very difficult peak to maintain for a distance athlete and running herself into the ground in a race a month before clearly wouldn't be beneficial to her training afterwards.

I'm not saying she didn't want to win and wasn't trying her best. All i'm saying is that if an athlete is putting something other than NCAA nationals as the end goal it makes sense to me to just be a pro. Trying to race this hard a month before USA's but having the training blocks scheduled around USA's seems like it would make both events more difficult than if you just focused on one or the other.


Yeah, but she doesn't have to turn pro in order to race at US Nationals. She can race at US Nationals in a month, and then come back for cross country at NC State in the fall.
jadawson
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Continuing with the predictions reviews, finally is distance:

Distance


Katelyn Tuohy - No introduction needed. She'll run whatever events she wants in an attempt to win another title or two and help her training for USA's later this summer. I wouldnt be surprised to see her go for a fast 1500 early in the season while she's riding her indoors form because i'd expect her training will be a lot more strength and endurance based with not as much speed work this season as she is preparing for a later peak for USA's. So i wouldnt be surprised if she chases a fast 1500 in a shot at the record then focuses on the 5k and potentially even races a 10k to test her strength. Not much else to say about her at this point so here are the relevant records she'll be chasing this season. 1500 collegiate record is 3:59.90 by Jenny Simpson. Tuohy's current PB is 4:06.49 which was en route to her indoors mile record a few weeks ago. This will be the harder one for her to chase. The 5k collegiate record is 15:07 by Jenny Simpson but Tuohy will be chasing the 15:00 barrier if not faster. I expect she is already in sub 15 shape. For fun the 10k school record is 32:36 if she does decide to do one.

Kelsey Chmiel - I expect she'll focus on the 10k as i think she has an NCAA title of her own finally in her sights but she'll run the 5k as well. She's currently with a 10k PB of 32:45 so less than 10 seconds off the school record and that would have had her 2nd in the 10k at NCAA's last year. She's also proven she's as good if not better than Mercy Chelangat of Alabama (whos the defending 10k champ) over the longer distances over this past year. I think she can be a sub 32:30 or 32:25 runner if its her focus this year, but the goal would be for a title if she focuses on this over the 5k. In the 5k seeing her finally under 15:25 would be cool.

Samantha Bush - She'll run the 1500 and 5k primarily but mix in a few 800's as well. She competed in the 800 and 5k at ACC's last year and finished 10th in the 5k at NCAA's. She boasts a 15:35 5k PB and a 4:13.5 1500 PB, both of which are competitive to score at NCAA's. Sub 15:30 and sub 4:10 are pipe dream goals but she's so proven and so talented i'm not sure why i would limit her ceiling. I'd also love to see her drop another 2:04 800 to prove that speed again as well.

Amaris Tyynismaa - She'll run the 1500/5k. She didn't have her best outdoors season last year as she didn't come that close to her PB's she set in the 2021 season, but those are really good PB's to be fair. 4:09 1500 and 15:33 5k. I think she can shoot for ~4:07 and sub 15:30 but more than times she'll shoot for better finishes at NCAA's. Only 1 all american finish on the track in her career so far isn't befitting of her talent level. she has the ability to push for top 4ish finishes in whichever of the races she chooses to focus on and i think a higher NCAA finish will be her goal.

Sydney Seymour - She'll end up focusing on the 5k, but she has dabbled in both the 1500 and 10k in the past, though the 5k definitely is her distance based on PB's. She comes in with a 15:34 PB and is coming off a 1st all american finish at NCAA Indoors. Sub 15:30 should be the goal and maybe another all american finish.

Allie Hays - I believe she has 1 season of outdoors left before she's out of eligibility and she's still listed on the roster. She'll run the 5k and 10k. She boasts a 15:33 5k PB and 33:15 10k PB as well as a 5th place finish at NCAA outdoors in the 10k in 2022. I'm sure she'd love sub 15:30 and sub 33:00, but id imagine with this being her last season that she'll be looking for a big NCAA finish, maybe another top 5 at 10k.

Grace Hartman - The strides she's made in her first official season of competition for NC State this past winter was great to watch. From a 4:39 mile to a 9:16 3k to a 2:09 800 split on the DMR. For reference (just a reference as you can't really compare improvement between runners as everyone is different) Samantha Bush was running 2:16 for 800 and 4:59 miles her freshman indoor season. I'd love to see her look for a ~4:16/4:17 range 1500 and having no idea what her 5k time is other than a 16:45 unattached race at Joe Piane back in September of last year. I'd say shoot for sub 16:00 on the track this year. Would be a great accomplishment.

Gionna Quarzo - She'll run the 5k/10k and probably focus on the 10k when acc's/regionals comes around hoping to qualify for nationals again in the 10k. she finished 16th at NCAA's last year and has a really solid 33:24 PB in the 10k. She'll probably hope to approach 33:10 this year and try to score at NCAA's. She PB'd this past indoors in the 5k with a 15:51 so a 15:45 goals seems difficult but not impossible.

Savannah Shaw - She made big strides in the 2022 outdoor season to post PB's 1500 and 5k which is what she will focus on again. she ran a 4:16 1500 and 15:33 5k last year before missing a lot of training with her injury last summer and fall. She's qualified for nationals in the 5k once in both Indoors and Outdoors in her career so that will likely be her focus again along with a sub 15:30, but she a 4:16 shows real speed so hopefully she can improve that by 2-3 seconds.

Brooke Rauber - I think she'll run 1500 and 3k steeplechase this spring. She was one of the best 2k steeplechasers in high school and i think would immediately be the best on our team at this event. She also has a 4:24 1500 from highschool which could and should be improved upon. She hasn't run track really yet for nc state (redshirted last year and only competed at 1 event this indoors) but with 1.5 years in the program at this point hopefully she can show off some new fitness level. Her improvement at the end of cross country was really positive. I'd love to see her shoot for low 4:20's in the 1500 and shoot for a sub 10 in the 3k steeplechase.

HM - Marlee Starliper and Nevada Mareno. No idea what their health status is at this point. But both have the potential to qualify for nationals in the 5k and 1500 respectively and have done so in the past. Big thing for them first is to get and stay healthy.

Starting off with Katelyn Tuohy, its hard to say that a season where she broke a collegiate record is in any way shape or form "disappointing". However with the standards she has set for herself over the last 12 months, its hard to say this was a success either. However it should be noted that she should be judge also by how she does at USA's in early July as that is what she was basing her training around. a 5k record of 15:03 and 7th place in the 1500 at nationals is a resume pretty much every other runner would kill for and yet here its a meh for Tuohy because thats the expectations she has placed on her every time she laces up the spikes.

Kelsey Chmiel is on a pretty similar situation as Tuohy to be honest. Her standards are just so high that even though she achieved what most athletes could only dream of it's not what we've come to expect from her. Probably unfair but she's a star regardless. Coming off a 3rd place finish in XC and a 4th and 7th place in the indoors in the 5k and 3k respectively, if you'd told me she wouldn't be very competitive in the final laps and wouldn't be within 30 seconds of the winner in either the 5k or 10k at outdoor nationals i wouldn't have believed you. Hope she gets a good rest this summer and is ready for another top 5 to top 10 performance in cross country again.

Samantha Bush didn't have a great season but only because she was seemingly injured, only racing twice and not since the Wake Forest meet in April. Her opening was strong however with a 15:39 5k at Raleigh relays not far off her PB. She seemed poised for big things outdoors after another all-american finish in XC and a great indoors campaign.

Amaris Tyynismaa had a great season. Set a new PB in the 5k with a 15:30 at Wake Forest, won the ACC title in the 5k (along with 6th in the 1500) and then had a great 4th place finish at nationals in the 5k, her best finish on the track at nationals ever.

Sydney Seymour is similar to Sam Bush in that she had a great season in doors before succumbing to injury outdoors. Thankfully she posted that she has a 6th year of eligibility due to covid and she is planning on using it.

Allie Hays had an incredible start to her season, racing for the first time in 9 months she opened with a new school record in the 10k with a 32:21 which was one of the fastest times in the nation this year. Then we didn't see her race again until ACC's where she took 6th in the 5k. She ended up with a really solid 2nd team all-american finish in the 10k at nationals.

Grace Hartman continued her incredible freshman campaign with a really strong performance in outdoors and beat both of the goals i had in mind for her. Setting big PB's for a freshman of 4:15 in the 1500 and 15:49 in the 5k which are nationally competitive times. She finished 8th in the ACC in the 1500 and was the top freshman in the conference and the only one to make the finals. Really looking forward to seeing what she can do in XC.

Gionna Quarzo had a really strong outdoors campaign. She set a new PB in the 10k at Raleigh Relays with a 33:06 which beat my goal for her. She also placed 2nd in the ACC in the 10k this year only behind Tuohy. THe only disappointment in her season was finishing 1 spot out of qualifying for nationals on the 10k where i think she could have secured another all-american finish.

Probably overshot my projections for Savannah Shaw considering her injuries all summer/fall, but i was impressed and hopeful after her indoors season. She had a decent outdoors campaign but wasn't really able to get back to the level she reached in 2022 though she did finish a solid 9th in the ACC in the 1500.

Brooke Rauber in the same boat as Bush and Seymour. She ran really solid season openers at the Raleigh Relays but got injured afterwards ending her season. She's had such a stunted career so far i hope she is able to get over her injury issues soon.

I missed on Mariah Howlett and Jenna Schulz completely. Howlett ran her fastest 10k since 2020 with a 33:45 effort and she took 5th at ACC's in the event and was able to have a great race at regionals to qualify for nationals. Not her best race at nationals, but making a track nationals for the first time is a huge step in her career. Schulz set a big new PB in the 5k at Penn Relays with a 16:09. Its the kind of time where you think she can start to become competitive to get into some top 7's or top 10's to race at XC next fall if she has a good summer.

Mareno and Starliper both were injured yet again which is a big bummer.
jadawson
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Nairo said:

The Tuohy kid needs to hang it up for the season and go into active recovery. She's not making this national team and has nothing to gain going to USATF. Her future is 2024 and many years beyond. She's been through three training cycles and has been racing for 8 months. Take a rest, get back into things mid July, defend XC and then go pro in December.
Quote:



Yeah, but she doesn't have to turn pro in order to race at US Nationals. She can race at US Nationals in a month, and then come back for cross country at NC State in the fall.


That would be best for the long term. But i have to think she's going to run it anyways given everything her and coach Henes have said about this season. If she does i hope she rests and doesnt race until ACC's next year and gets a normal rest/recovery cycle in.
Wolfer79
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Seven Wolfpack athletes earn All-American status at NCAA track and field championships

https://www.technicianonline.com/sports/seven-wolfpack-athletes-earn-all-american-status-at-ncaa-track-and-field-championships/article_303b5c44-0a31-11ee-abf4-e77a2c351eb8.html
Wolfer79
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