packofwolves said:
Civilized said:
ncsupack1 said:
packofwolves said:
Civilized said:
SmaptyWolf said:
packgrad said:
packofwolves said:
SmaptyWolf said:
packofwolves said:
GuerrillaPack said:
SmaptyWolf said:
You gotta admit it's kinda funny how the Constitution crowd is so eager to require an ID to exercise a Constitutional right. Maybe we should keep that in mind next time we're regulating guns.
ID is needed to combat voter fraud -- eg, people voting using another person's name, etc.
To ensure this constitutional right is exercised by US citizens only. Libby's must get pissed off every time they show an ID to buy alcohol, board a plane, go to the doctors, apply for government programs, get insurance, apply for utilities, get a cell phone and so on. The additional burden of having to show ID to vote just pushes them off the cliff.
I'm actually fine with voter ID to shut you guys up (I'm also fine with more extensive requirements to get a gun), but despite the MAGA fan fiction voter fraud is extremely hard to pull off in our system... plenty of checks and balances and the risk/reward just isn't worth it.
Somehow our democracy managed just fine without anyone even having a birth certificate for hundreds of years. But sure, let's all play along with this not being 100% about you guys just wanting to reduce the minority vote (and now assuaging Trump's ego, too).
That is such a bad excuse used by the Libby's for far too long. But it's the only excuse they can come up with. You are stating minorities are incapable of getting an ID. Living in this country requires an ID for basic services and government programs. It's ridiculous.
It emphasizes how ignorant, and subject to group think, someone is to say that minorities can't get an ID. It also says they're a racist moron.
Luke usual, the dims doing what they accuse others of.
Edit to add... one literally has to effort to function in today's society without an id. They literally choose to or are incapacitated.
I won't bother trying to explain to you why fewer minority voters might not have an ID, it's just a fact that that is the case.
Speaking of ignorant group think, though... do you guys seriously think that if Dems wanted to hack an election that their BIG STRATEGY would be to employ a million illegals into a grand conspiracy and hope no one gets caught? Especially when they could just, you know, hack some antiquated voting systems and be done with it... maybe even hire a hostile foreign power to do it for them?
You guys really struggle with the whole "thinking about the crap you're being fed for 30 seconds" thing.
Right.
It's not debatable that voter ID laws disproportionately impact minorities, the elderly, and student voters.
Now look at what party those demographics typically vote for and tell me it's a coincidence that Republicans push voter ID laws so hard.
I'd have zero issue with voter ID laws being pushed hard by whomever if they were actually shown to meaningfully reduce voter fraud. But they don't, mostly because there's no meaningful voter fraud to reduce. Voter fraud is already infinitesimally low relative to turnout. It's always been infinitesimally low and there have never been indications it's increasing over time.
As it stands, I'm for voter ID requirements because it's one less excuse the fake voter fraud loons can roll out when they take the L.
Students, seriously? Come on. I guess students don't buy alcohol, don't go to bars nor enroll in college.
The student part was weak and reaching. The only students who don't have IDs on them are the ones protesting and throwing paint on buildings.
BS.
Go read studies about voter ID laws and tell me they don't negatively impact students.
This isn't about having ANY ID. It's about having an ID on the ever-shortening list of appropriate ID's to vote, as determined by Republican legislatures that are hellbent on keeping demographics that historically vote Democrat away from the polls.
Here's the latest example. Ohio just passed stricter voter ID laws. Now students need either an Ohio driver's license or passport to vote. They can't use utility bills or any other "proof of residence" forms they've historically been able to use to validate a student's identity at the polls. Out of state students in Ohio and across the country have historically utilized these methods frequently, and now are unable to in many states.
Why do this? Why take a system that has worked for years and shown no capacity to be abused and change it to make it harder for people to vote?
Again - in the absence of voter fraud that is and always has been vanishingly rare - why make it harder for Americans to access the polls?
Republicans do this in the name of "election security" of course but there is zero evidence elections are insecure by any statistically meaningful metric. This is 100% an example of a solution (with clear and demonstrable negative effects) in search of a problem.
More importantly, it's clear voter suppression.
Students can vote in their home state (absentee ballot) OR the state they attend college. Hopefully they don't vote in both. If they want to vote in the state they attend college, it is absolutely reasonable that they get a voter ID for that state. Taking your Ohio example, these are the valid voter IDs:
Ohio driver's license;
State of Ohio ID card;
Interim ID form issued by the Ohio BMV;
A US passport;
A US passport card;
US military ID card;
Ohio National Guard ID card; or
US Department of Veterans Affairs ID card
You think college kids are so inept they can't get an ID for the state they attend school? Good grief that's a bad argument.
You seem to be stuck on "can't." People can do anything with enough money and time. The issue is all these suppression tactics are barriers to people that don't have as much money, time, transportation, connectedness, etc. So who does that impact? The poorer; the less able-bodied, the overworked, etc.
These barriers aren't insurmountable. But they make it harder to vote, and when stuff requires more time, money, or trouble, it discourages people from voting. There shouldn't be barriers to voting above and beyond those needed to avoid voter fraud on scale.
We didn't have voter fraud on any sort of scale before because there were already multiple safeguards and disincentives.
In Texas, some residents live more than 150 miles from an issuing ID agency. But, who cares? People CAN do it, so they should be legally required to!
Again - why make it harder than it was, when how it was had vanishingly small occurrences of fraud?
