TRUMP 2024

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Werewolf
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8:41p, 10/20/23
Which one of you Sheeple was celebrating this BS a couple of days ago? You're gonna be embarrassingly on the wrong side of history. Stay tuned.......TRUTH is coming. #Devolution

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SmaptyWolf
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In reply to Werewolf • 10:03p, 10/20/23
Werewolf said:
This judge doesn't want to be hung, I guess.

And now she's going to testify for the prosecution and rat out what's his name.

That's... how... a... plea... deal... works...
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packgrad
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In reply to Werewolf • 10:23p, 10/20/23
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Oldsouljer
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In reply to SmaptyWolf • 9:07a, 10/22/23
SmaptyWolf said:
Werewolf said:
This judge doesn't want to be hung, I guess.

And now she's going to testify for the prosecution and rat out what's his name.

That's... how... a... plea... deal... works...
Which is why plea deals should be outlawed. They contribute to the perversion of justice.
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Civilized
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In reply to Oldsouljer • 9:36a, 10/22/23
Oldsouljer said:
SmaptyWolf said:
Werewolf said:
This judge doesn't want to be hung, I guess.

And now she's going to testify for the prosecution and rat out what's his name.

That's... how... a... plea... deal... works...
Which is why plea deals should be outlawed. They contribute to the perversion of justice.

How?
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caryking
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In reply to Civilized • 2:10p, 10/22/23
Civilized said:
Oldsouljer said:
SmaptyWolf said:
Werewolf said:
This judge doesn't want to be hung, I guess.

And now she's going to testify for the prosecution and rat out what's his name.

That's... how... a... plea... deal... works...
Which is why plea deals should be outlawed. They contribute to the perversion of justice.

How?
His response answers your question…
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
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Civilized
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In reply to caryking • 4:17p, 10/22/23
caryking said:
Civilized said:
Oldsouljer said:
SmaptyWolf said:
Werewolf said:
This judge doesn't want to be hung, I guess.

And now she's going to testify for the prosecution and rat out what's his name.

That's... how... a... plea... deal... works...
Which is why plea deals should be outlawed. They contribute to the perversion of justice.

How?
His response answers your question…

No it doesn't.

He says he thinks they pervert justice but doesn't explain how.
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Oldsouljer
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In reply to Civilized • 4:53p, 10/22/23
Civilized said:
caryking said:
Civilized said:
Oldsouljer said:
SmaptyWolf said:
Werewolf said:
This judge doesn't want to be hung, I guess.

And now she's going to testify for the prosecution and rat out what's his name.

That's... how... a... plea... deal... works...
Which is why plea deals should be outlawed. They contribute to the perversion of justice.

How?
His response answers your question…

No it doesn't.

He says he thinks they pervert justice but doesn't explain how.
Prosecutorial abuse of power and process is already a problem. Plea deals give prosecutors maneuver room they shouldn't have. No direct communication between prosecutors and defenses should be allowed. Prosecutor should only decide to prosecute or not prosecute without trying to get something from the defense.
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caryking
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In reply to Oldsouljer • 5:09p, 10/22/23
Oldsouljer said:
Civilized said:
caryking said:
Civilized said:
Oldsouljer said:
SmaptyWolf said:
Werewolf said:
This judge doesn't want to be hung, I guess.

And now she's going to testify for the prosecution and rat out what's his name.

That's... how... a... plea... deal... works...
Which is why plea deals should be outlawed. They contribute to the perversion of justice.

How?
His response answers your question…

No it doesn't.

He says he thinks they pervert justice but doesn't explain how.
Prosecutorial abuse of power and process is already a problem. Plea deals give prosecutors maneuver room they shouldn't have. No direct communication between prosecutors and defenses should be allowed. Prosecutor should only decide to prosecute or not prosecute without trying to get something from the defense.
Oldsouljer, you elaborated on what you already said. I got it the first time! Others need more understanding…. Thanks, nonetheless…
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
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SmaptyWolf
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In reply to Oldsouljer • 5:12p, 10/22/23
Oldsouljer said:
Civilized said:
caryking said:
Civilized said:
Oldsouljer said:
SmaptyWolf said:
Werewolf said:
This judge doesn't want to be hung, I guess.

And now she's going to testify for the prosecution and rat out what's his name.

That's... how... a... plea... deal... works...
Which is why plea deals should be outlawed. They contribute to the perversion of justice.

How?
His response answers your question…

No it doesn't.

He says he thinks they pervert justice but doesn't explain how.
Prosecutorial abuse of power and process is already a problem. Plea deals give prosecutors maneuver room they shouldn't have. No direct communication between prosecutors and defenses should be allowed. Prosecutor should only decide to prosecute or not prosecute without trying to get something from the defense.

You really think the Sydney Powell's defense sees this as abuse? I can guarantee they're thrilled. The only one not thrilled is Donald Trump, or any other mob boss who gets brought down when all of the little fish under them start spilling the beans to save their own necks.
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Civilized
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In reply to Oldsouljer • 5:34p, 10/22/23
Oldsouljer said:
Civilized said:
caryking said:
Civilized said:
Oldsouljer said:
SmaptyWolf said:
Werewolf said:
This judge doesn't want to be hung, I guess.

And now she's going to testify for the prosecution and rat out what's his name.

That's... how... a... plea... deal... works...
Which is why plea deals should be outlawed. They contribute to the perversion of justice.

How?
His response answers your question…

No it doesn't.

He says he thinks they pervert justice but doesn't explain how.
Prosecutorial abuse of power and process is already a problem. Plea deals give prosecutors maneuver room they shouldn't have. No direct communication between prosecutors and defenses should be allowed. Prosecutor should only decide to prosecute or not prosecute without trying to get something from the defense.

How is the public good served by imposing that sort of arbitrary restriction and/or how are defendants harmed? Sid Powell is very pleased about this outcome I'm sure.

Plea deals are good for defendants that are willing to cooperate so I'm not clear at all on how you're suggesting plea deals encourage prosecutorial overreach or harm defendants in the aggregate. I'm sure kingpins don't love them because the testimony rolls up to them but that's a good thing not a bad thing.

They're a valuable tool to secure testimony and pursue justice when prosecuting organized crime.

The public good is served by getting the dealer to give information that helps convict the distributor; the distributor to help convict the suppliers and lieutenants; and ultimately any and all testimony that helps prosecute the leader in any sort of hierarchical organized crime effort is beneficial.
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Civilized
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In reply to caryking • 5:36p, 10/22/23
caryking said:
Oldsouljer said:
Civilized said:
caryking said:
Civilized said:
Oldsouljer said:
SmaptyWolf said:
Werewolf said:
This judge doesn't want to be hung, I guess.

And now she's going to testify for the prosecution and rat out what's his name.

That's... how... a... plea... deal... works...
Which is why plea deals should be outlawed. They contribute to the perversion of justice.

How?
His response answers your question…

No it doesn't.

He says he thinks they pervert justice but doesn't explain how.
Prosecutorial abuse of power and process is already a problem. Plea deals give prosecutors maneuver room they shouldn't have. No direct communication between prosecutors and defenses should be allowed. Prosecutor should only decide to prosecute or not prosecute without trying to get something from the defense.
Oldsouljer, you elaborated on what you already said. I got it the first time! Others need more understanding…. Thanks, nonetheless…

Thanks there Captain Understanding but Oldsouljer and I are capable of discussing this respectfully like grownups.
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caryking
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In reply to Civilized • 7:20a, 10/23/23
Civilized said:
caryking said:
Oldsouljer said:
Civilized said:
caryking said:
Civilized said:
Oldsouljer said:
SmaptyWolf said:
Werewolf said:
This judge doesn't want to be hung, I guess.

And now she's going to testify for the prosecution and rat out what's his name.

That's... how... a... plea... deal... works...
Which is why plea deals should be outlawed. They contribute to the perversion of justice.

How?
His response answers your question…

No it doesn't.

He says he thinks they pervert justice but doesn't explain how.
Prosecutorial abuse of power and process is already a problem. Plea deals give prosecutors maneuver room they shouldn't have. No direct communication between prosecutors and defenses should be allowed. Prosecutor should only decide to prosecute or not prosecute without trying to get something from the defense.
Oldsouljer, you elaborated on what you already said. I got it the first time! Others need more understanding…. Thanks, nonetheless…

Thanks there Captain Understanding but Oldsouljer and I are capable of discussing this respectfully like grownups.
Civ, I know you are…. That's funny.. I may need to start using my new name… Captain Understanding
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
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NCTrafficMan
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11:17a, 10/24/23
Are some of you clowns still part of his cult?



You better have a back-up candidate because Don-The-Con is finally being held to account for his actions.
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Civilized
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In reply to NCTrafficMan • 12:01p, 10/24/23
NCTrafficMan said:
Are some of you clowns still part of his cult?

You better have a back-up candidate because Don-The-Con is finally being held to account for his actions.

I've thought at 14 different junctures over the last seven years that he was on the verge of being held accountable for his conduct, either electorally or legally, and he hasn't been aside from a deceptively close loss in the 2020 presidential race so I'll believe it when I see it.

But yet another member of his legal team pleading guilty, this time to a felony, and agreeing to testify for the state does not bode well for his legal fortunes.

Ellis is also openly stating that she represented his team in their attempts to overthrow Georgia. It will be interesting to see if he tries to disavow his association with her the same way he did with Sid Powell.
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TheStorm
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In reply to Civilized • 12:32p, 10/24/23
Cool to see Smapty post under her main name again... or not. (Because I can't see it!)
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SmaptyWolf
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1:22p, 10/24/23
So now that three of Trump's election denial inner circle have all clearly stated that their claims were fraudulent, I have to wonder how many more guilty pleas it will take before guys like Cary throw in the towel and accept that it was all a con.
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Civilized
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In reply to SmaptyWolf • 2:18p, 10/24/23
SmaptyWolf said:
So now that three of Trump's election denial inner circle have all clearly stated that their claims were fraudulent, I have to wonder how many more guilty pleas it will take before guys like Cary throw in the towel and accept that it was all a con.

Cary can correct me of this notion but I think most everyone still singing the fraud tune at this point, at least those not in legal jeopardy like Trump's team, are ride-or-die.

Even if and when the courts deem activities attempting to overturn the election as being legally unjustified and themselves illegal, and even despite Trump's own team disavowing their own attempts, the election truthers will simply claim Trump's team is disloyal and self-serving; that the prosecution was unjust; and the findings incorrect and overturnable on some future appeal.

This has entered X-files territory. The Election Truth is Out There if only we look hard enough, in the right places, and then find an incorruptible conduit of information to broadcast the Real Truth to the masses.
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WolfpackUSC
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In reply to NCTrafficMan • 4:13p, 10/24/23
NCTrafficMan said:
Are some of you clowns still part of his cult?



You better have a back-up candidate because Don-The-Con is finally being held to account for his actions.


I was in the cult from 2016 to Jan 6th, 2021.

The constant "he can do no wrong" crowd, the "Trump is fighting for the little guy" crowd, the "EVERYTHING BEING A FU**ING CONSPIRACY THEORY" crowd, the constant whining crowd, and etc., killed it for me.

So glad I got out.
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caryking
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In reply to Civilized • 4:19p, 10/24/23
Civilized said:
SmaptyWolf said:
So now that three of Trump's election denial inner circle have all clearly stated that their claims were fraudulent, I have to wonder how many more guilty pleas it will take before guys like Cary throw in the towel and accept that it was all a con.

Cary can correct me of this notion but I think most everyone still singing the fraud tune at this point, at least those not in legal jeopardy like Trump's team, are ride-or-die.

Even if and when the courts deem activities attempting to overturn the election as being legally unjustified and themselves illegal, and even despite Trump's own team disavowing their own attempts, the election truthers will simply claim Trump's team is disloyal and self-serving; that the prosecution was unjust; and the findings incorrect and overturnable on some future appeal.

This has entered X-files territory. The Election Truth is Out There if only we look hard enough, in the right places, and then find an incorruptible conduit of information to broadcast the Real Truth to the masses.


Why would you assume this?

Cary can correct me of this notion but I think most everyone still singing the fraud tune at this point, at least those not in legal jeopardy like Trump's team, are ride-or-die.

At this point, no one has proven or disproven anything. Ok, we have a couple of people taking some type of plea deal…. Do you know what the plea deal is? I certainly don't. As I have said many times, I don't know whether we had fraud or not…. Time will tell, right?

Until then, I'm still voting for Trump! He is no more or no less corrupt than anything the Dems have put up since Carter…. BTW, he will win the nomination, in fact, one of the low-tiered candidates just endorsed him…

I would encourage the Dems to start worrying about their own bedroom… their is the potential of a lot of messy bed partners over there…

Oh, one more thing… 1.7T deficit with 300B rolled into next year…. Funky accounting by your team!!! I think you will find that I focus on this as my primary dividing point in the political spectrum…. According to some, no worries as modern monetary policy fixes all things!!!
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
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caryking
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In reply to WolfpackUSC • 4:20p, 10/24/23
WolfpackUSC said:
NCTrafficMan said:
Are some of you clowns still part of his cult?



You better have a back-up candidate because Don-The-Con is finally being held to account for his actions.


I was in the cult from 2016 to Jan 6th, 2021.

The constant "he can do no wrong" crowd, the "Trump is fighting for the little guy" crowd, the "EVERYTHING BEING A FU**ING CONSPIRACY THEORY" crowd, the constant whining crowd, and etc., killed it for me.

So glad I got out.


And you went where? Biden?
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
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SmaptyWolf
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In reply to caryking • 5:08p, 10/24/23
caryking said:
Civilized said:
SmaptyWolf said:
So now that three of Trump's election denial inner circle have all clearly stated that their claims were fraudulent, I have to wonder how many more guilty pleas it will take before guys like Cary throw in the towel and accept that it was all a con.

Cary can correct me of this notion but I think most everyone still singing the fraud tune at this point, at least those not in legal jeopardy like Trump's team, are ride-or-die.

Even if and when the courts deem activities attempting to overturn the election as being legally unjustified and themselves illegal, and even despite Trump's own team disavowing their own attempts, the election truthers will simply claim Trump's team is disloyal and self-serving; that the prosecution was unjust; and the findings incorrect and overturnable on some future appeal.

This has entered X-files territory. The Election Truth is Out There if only we look hard enough, in the right places, and then find an incorruptible conduit of information to broadcast the Real Truth to the masses.


Why would you assume this?

Cary can correct me of this notion but I think most everyone still singing the fraud tune at this point, at least those not in legal jeopardy like Trump's team, are ride-or-die.

At this point, no one has proven or disproven anything. Ok, we have a couple of people taking some type of plea deal…. Do you know what the plea deal is? I certainly don't. As I have said many times, I don't know whether we had fraud or not…. Time will tell, right?

Until then, I'm still voting for Trump! He is no more or no less corrupt than anything the Dems have put up since Carter…. BTW, he will win the nomination, in fact, one of the low-tiered candidates just endorsed him…

I would encourage the Dems to start worrying about their own bedroom… their is the potential of a lot of messy bed partners over there…

Oh, one more thing… 1.7T deficit with 300B rolled into next year…. Funky accounting by your team!!! I think you will find that I focus on this as my primary dividing point in the political spectrum…. According to some, no worries as modern monetary policy fixes all things!!!

Lol, who are you kidding? Trump could eat a puppy on live TV and you're still voting for him. You'd just convince yourself that Biden made a secret fortune murdering kittens.
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Oldsouljer
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In reply to SmaptyWolf • 7:05p, 10/24/23
The secret to Trump's success is that he at least pretends to be all about the little guy, the powers-that-be don't even bother, hence the appeal, however thin it may be. Kennedy is latching on to that to some extent, we'll see how far that takes him.
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Oldsouljer
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In reply to caryking • 7:20p, 10/24/23
caryking said:
Oldsouljer said:
Civilized said:
caryking said:
Civilized said:
Oldsouljer said:
SmaptyWolf said:
Werewolf said:
This judge doesn't want to be hung, I guess.

And now she's going to testify for the prosecution and rat out what's his name.

That's... how... a... plea... deal... works...
Which is why plea deals should be outlawed. They contribute to the perversion of justice.

How?
His response answers your question…

No it doesn't.

He says he thinks they pervert justice but doesn't explain how.
Prosecutorial abuse of power and process is already a problem. Plea deals give prosecutors maneuver room they shouldn't have. No direct communication between prosecutors and defenses should be allowed. Prosecutor should only decide to prosecute or not prosecute without trying to get something from the defense.
Oldsouljer, you elaborated on what you already said. I got it the first time! Others need more understanding…. Thanks, nonetheless…
Any defense of Trump is in reality a defense of ourselves. What can be done to him can so much more easily be done to the rest of us. The legal assault against him violates two centuries of accepted American legal principles.

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/gag-order-against-trump-real-threat-democracy
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caryking
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In reply to Oldsouljer • 8:26p, 10/24/23
Oldsouljer said:
caryking said:
Oldsouljer said:
Civilized said:
caryking said:
Civilized said:
Oldsouljer said:
SmaptyWolf said:
Werewolf said:
This judge doesn't want to be hung, I guess.

And now she's going to testify for the prosecution and rat out what's his name.

That's... how... a... plea... deal... works...
Which is why plea deals should be outlawed. They contribute to the perversion of justice.

How?
His response answers your question…

No it doesn't.

He says he thinks they pervert justice but doesn't explain how.
Prosecutorial abuse of power and process is already a problem. Plea deals give prosecutors maneuver room they shouldn't have. No direct communication between prosecutors and defenses should be allowed. Prosecutor should only decide to prosecute or not prosecute without trying to get something from the defense.
Oldsouljer, you elaborated on what you already said. I got it the first time! Others need more understanding…. Thanks, nonetheless…
Any defense of Trump is in reality a defense of ourselves. What can be done to him can so much more easily be done to the rest of us. The legal assault against him violates two centuries of accepted American legal principles.

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/gag-order-against-trump-real-threat-democracy


Pay future attention on these people making plea deals…

Golden Parachute Forthcoming!!!
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
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SmaptyWolf
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In reply to Oldsouljer • 9:17p, 10/24/23
Oldsouljer said:
The secret to Trump's success is that he at least pretends to be all about the little guy, the powers-that-be don't even bother, hence the appeal, however thin it may be. Kennedy is latching on to that to some extent, we'll see how far that takes him.

Trump's "racist uncle" persona I'm sure was a breath of fresh air for a certain segment of little guys, but economically speaking surely you know it was all pretending.

His big accomplishment was a tax cut for rich dudes... about as "conventional Republican" as it gets. Otherwise his big innovation was recognizing how furious the little guy was after decades of failed "ship everything to China" and "right to work for less" conservative policies... so he did a Jedi mind-scramble and pretended to be an economic liberal ("Infrastructure Week!") without actually doing any of it.
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packgrad
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In reply to TheStorm • 9:32p, 10/24/23
TheStorm said:
Cool to see Smapty post under her main name again... or not. (Because I can't see it!)


Pretty pathetic that she posts under 2 accounts here.
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SmaptyWolf
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In reply to Oldsouljer • 9:38p, 10/24/23
Oldsouljer said:
caryking said:
Oldsouljer said:
Civilized said:
caryking said:
Civilized said:
Oldsouljer said:
SmaptyWolf said:
Werewolf said:
This judge doesn't want to be hung, I guess.

And now she's going to testify for the prosecution and rat out what's his name.

That's... how... a... plea... deal... works...
Which is why plea deals should be outlawed. They contribute to the perversion of justice.

How?
His response answers your question…

No it doesn't.

He says he thinks they pervert justice but doesn't explain how.
Prosecutorial abuse of power and process is already a problem. Plea deals give prosecutors maneuver room they shouldn't have. No direct communication between prosecutors and defenses should be allowed. Prosecutor should only decide to prosecute or not prosecute without trying to get something from the defense.
Oldsouljer, you elaborated on what you already said. I got it the first time! Others need more understanding…. Thanks, nonetheless…
Any defense of Trump is in reality a defense of ourselves. What can be done to him can so much more easily be done to the rest of us. The legal assault against him violates two centuries of accepted American legal principles.

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/gag-order-against-trump-real-threat-democracy

So here's a fun mental exercise. Imagine that a Dem President, say Biden, shot someone in the face during a televised press conference. Actual video evidence... no decoder rings required. You think, wow, this lawless President thing doesn't work, what can we do about it? Impeachment! Except, thanks to a rabid Dem base driven by a pretty relentless propaganda machine there are ZERO Dem Senators willing to convict Biden, even when they all know he's guilty. So just like that he's exonerated!

Well crap, you think, this system is broken! But wait! As soon as he's out of office you can finally seek justice in a real court. Except of course as soon as you do Biden and his rabid base immediately cry that you're violating OMG TWO CENTURIES OF ACCEPTED LEGAL PRINCIPLES!

So in this exercise, is there ANY actual mechanism for holding a "shoots people in the face" President accountable? Sure doesn't seem like it.
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Civilized
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In reply to Oldsouljer • 11:13p, 10/24/23
Oldsouljer said:
caryking said:
Oldsouljer said:
Civilized said:
caryking said:
Civilized said:
Oldsouljer said:
SmaptyWolf said:
Werewolf said:
This judge doesn't want to be hung, I guess.

And now she's going to testify for the prosecution and rat out what's his name.

That's... how... a... plea... deal... works...
Which is why plea deals should be outlawed. They contribute to the perversion of justice.

How?
His response answers your question…

No it doesn't.

He says he thinks they pervert justice but doesn't explain how.
Prosecutorial abuse of power and process is already a problem. Plea deals give prosecutors maneuver room they shouldn't have. No direct communication between prosecutors and defenses should be allowed. Prosecutor should only decide to prosecute or not prosecute without trying to get something from the defense.
Oldsouljer, you elaborated on what you already said. I got it the first time! Others need more understanding…. Thanks, nonetheless…
Any defense of Trump is in reality a defense of ourselves. What can be done to him can so much more easily be done to the rest of us. The legal assault against him violates two centuries of accepted American legal principles.

It violates two centuries of legal principles on how to prevent defendants intimidating and tampering with witnesses and members of the court?

How?

Trump can speak out about how he thinks he's being unfairly prosecuted, he just can't call out witnesses or specific members of the court. What compelling defense of such conduct towards witnesses and the court would there be?
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Oldsouljer
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In reply to Civilized • 6:59a, 10/25/23
Civilized said:
Oldsouljer said:
caryking said:
Oldsouljer said:
Civilized said:
caryking said:
Civilized said:
Oldsouljer said:
SmaptyWolf said:
Werewolf said:
This judge doesn't want to be hung, I guess.

And now she's going to testify for the prosecution and rat out what's his name.

That's... how... a... plea... deal... works...
Which is why plea deals should be outlawed. They contribute to the perversion of justice.

How?
His response answers your question…

No it doesn't.

He says he thinks they pervert justice but doesn't explain how.
Prosecutorial abuse of power and process is already a problem. Plea deals give prosecutors maneuver room they shouldn't have. No direct communication between prosecutors and defenses should be allowed. Prosecutor should only decide to prosecute or not prosecute without trying to get something from the defense.
Oldsouljer, you elaborated on what you already said. I got it the first time! Others need more understanding…. Thanks, nonetheless…
Any defense of Trump is in reality a defense of ourselves. What can be done to him can so much more easily be done to the rest of us. The legal assault against him violates two centuries of accepted American legal principles.

It violates two centuries of legal principles on how to prevent defendants intimidating and tampering with witnesses and members of the court?

How?

Trump can speak out about how he thinks he's being unfairly prosecuted, he just can't call out witnesses or specific members of the court. What compelling defense of such conduct towards witnesses and the court would there be?
Even liberal law professors like Jonathan Turley and Erwin Chemerinsky are calling this gag order unconstitutional on its face. And Chemerinsky is about left wing as law professors get.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/erwin-chemerinsky-donald-trump-has-the-right-to-be-rude/ar-AA1iGWo0
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Civilized
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In reply to Oldsouljer • 7:22a, 10/25/23
Oldsouljer said:
Civilized said:
Oldsouljer said:
caryking said:
Oldsouljer said:
Civilized said:
caryking said:
Civilized said:
Oldsouljer said:
SmaptyWolf said:
Werewolf said:
This judge doesn't want to be hung, I guess.

And now she's going to testify for the prosecution and rat out what's his name.

That's... how... a... plea... deal... works...
Which is why plea deals should be outlawed. They contribute to the perversion of justice.

How?
His response answers your question…

No it doesn't.

He says he thinks they pervert justice but doesn't explain how.
Prosecutorial abuse of power and process is already a problem. Plea deals give prosecutors maneuver room they shouldn't have. No direct communication between prosecutors and defenses should be allowed. Prosecutor should only decide to prosecute or not prosecute without trying to get something from the defense.
Oldsouljer, you elaborated on what you already said. I got it the first time! Others need more understanding…. Thanks, nonetheless…
Any defense of Trump is in reality a defense of ourselves. What can be done to him can so much more easily be done to the rest of us. The legal assault against him violates two centuries of accepted American legal principles.

It violates two centuries of legal principles on how to prevent defendants intimidating and tampering with witnesses and members of the court?

How?

Trump can speak out about how he thinks he's being unfairly prosecuted, he just can't call out witnesses or specific members of the court. What compelling defense of such conduct towards witnesses and the court would there be?
Even liberal law professors like Jonathan Turley and Erwin Chemerinsky are calling this gag order unconstitutional on its face.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/erwin-chemerinsky-donald-trump-has-the-right-to-be-rude/ar-AA1iGWo0

Good article, and very worthy of debate.

I would argue Chemerinsky is far too quick to gloss over the potential cooling effect on prosecutorial or witness behavior based on Trump's public attacks. As they note, this case has no precedent.

This is not simply a matter of Trump being "rude."

We all observed the violence of Jan. 6, and with a direct line between that unhinged Trump loyalist behavior and Trump's precipitating speech that led to that violence, the court has clear reason to believe intimidation or harm could reasonably be the result of Trump's public remarks about the court or witnesses.

There is not direct precedent for how to adjudicate public attacks on the court and witnesses leading up to a trial of a former American President accused of trying to overturn an election.

There IS direct precedent for Trump's inflammatory speech precipitating a violent attack.

I would think the court must be deferent to the sanctity of the case and the physical safety of witnesses and the court but we'll see.
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caryking
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In reply to Civilized • 7:30a, 10/25/23
Civilized said:
Oldsouljer said:
Civilized said:
Oldsouljer said:
caryking said:
Oldsouljer said:
Civilized said:
caryking said:
Civilized said:
Oldsouljer said:
SmaptyWolf said:
Werewolf said:
This judge doesn't want to be hung, I guess.

And now she's going to testify for the prosecution and rat out what's his name.

That's... how... a... plea... deal... works...
Which is why plea deals should be outlawed. They contribute to the perversion of justice.

How?
His response answers your question…

No it doesn't.

He says he thinks they pervert justice but doesn't explain how.
Prosecutorial abuse of power and process is already a problem. Plea deals give prosecutors maneuver room they shouldn't have. No direct communication between prosecutors and defenses should be allowed. Prosecutor should only decide to prosecute or not prosecute without trying to get something from the defense.
Oldsouljer, you elaborated on what you already said. I got it the first time! Others need more understanding…. Thanks, nonetheless…
Any defense of Trump is in reality a defense of ourselves. What can be done to him can so much more easily be done to the rest of us. The legal assault against him violates two centuries of accepted American legal principles.

It violates two centuries of legal principles on how to prevent defendants intimidating and tampering with witnesses and members of the court?

How?

Trump can speak out about how he thinks he's being unfairly prosecuted, he just can't call out witnesses or specific members of the court. What compelling defense of such conduct towards witnesses and the court would there be?
Even liberal law professors like Jonathan Turley and Erwin Chemerinsky are calling this gag order unconstitutional on its face.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/erwin-chemerinsky-donald-trump-has-the-right-to-be-rude/ar-AA1iGWo0

Good article, and very worthy of debate.

I would argue Chemerinsky is far too quick to gloss over the potential cooling effect on prosecutorial or witness behavior based on Trump's public attacks. As they note, this case has no precedent.

This is not simply a matter of Trump being "rude."

We all observed the violence of Jan. 6, and with a direct line between that unhinged Trump loyalist behavior and Trump's precipitating speech that led to that violence, the court has clear reason to believe intimidation or harm could reasonably be the result of Trump's public remarks about the court or witnesses.

There is not direct precedent for how to adjudicate public attacks on the court and witnesses leading up to a trial of a former American President accused of trying to overturn an election.

There IS direct precedent for Trump's inflammatory speech precipitating a violent attack.

I would think the court must be deferent to the sanctity of the case and the physical safety of witnesses and the court but we'll see.
Civ, have you ever listened to the Trump speech on Jan 6th?
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
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packgrad
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7:33a, 10/25/23
The left is fine with a police state as it pertains to conservatives. Civ has no problems with the violence that has occurred as a result of lies told by prosecutors/politicians in multiple police/BLM trials, that have turned out to be complete lies (Michael Brown, Trayvon Martin, George Floyd just to name a few). TDS just accentuates it in this instance. Civ would be fine with no trial at all. He is already guilty of whatever charges the prosecutors toss at him. Look no further than the BS rape claims civ still stands behind with zero evidence. Wait, zero substantive evidence.

The left looked admirably at Canada and how they handled dissenters during Covid, and look to rule more like Trudeau. They love the police state.
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Oldsouljer
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In reply to Civilized • 8:01a, 10/25/23
I should simplify and clarify my point that the main American principle I refer to is that even the citizens we detest and despise the most, we should defend their rights to the utmost, to further ensure that our own rights remain inviolate. Once someone becomes marginalized and deemed an "exception", those with evil intent will push the bounds to go after the rest of us.
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Civilized
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In reply to packgrad • 8:40a, 10/25/23
packgrad said:
The left is fine with a police state as it pertains to conservatives. Civ has no problems with the violence that has occurred as a result of lies told by prosecutors/politicians in multiple police/BLM trials, that have turned out to be complete lies (Michael Brown, Trayvon Martin, George Floyd just to name a few). TDS just accentuates it in this instance. Civ would be fine with no trial at all. He is already guilty of whatever charges the prosecutors toss at him. Look no further than the BS rape claims civ still stands behind with zero evidence. Wait, zero substantive evidence.

The left looked admirably at Canada and how they handled dissenters during Covid, and look to rule more like Trudeau. They love the police state.

More weak hypocrisy police whataboutisms.

You're welcome to bring up the BLM protests again when anyone associated with them becomes President, loses reelection, incites a violent protest riot, is put on trial for attempting to overturn said free election, and then tries to intimidate witnesses and the court before his trial. At that point I welcome you to try to draw a line between some nonexistent leftist boogeyman's speech and the BLM protests. Be my guest.

As it stands, this court and any higher appeals courts will be tasked with the obvious weighing of Trump's right to Free Speech vs. the need to protect witnesses and their testimony in his trial.

There is literally zero chance BLM protests are brought up during the gag order legal deliberations. Any such attempt would obviously get laughed out of court.
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